WEBVTT 00:00:21.080 --> 00:00:27.419 Hello friends, today is Thursday the 20th August 2020 and tonight I have the privilege 00:00:27.419 --> 00:00:33.320 to be with Jean-Dominique Michel Hi Jean-Dominique! 00:00:33.320 --> 00:00:37.040 Good evening Sylvano! Now you have become famous and 00:00:37.160 --> 00:00:41.720 famous throughout the French-speaking world with the covid crisis, 00:00:41.730 --> 00:00:46.289 but tell us before this crisis, Jean-Dominique Michel 00:00:46.289 --> 00:00:51.000 what was he doing? 00:00:51.000 --> 00:00:53.610 I am a health anthropologist. Anthropology is the study of 00:00:53.610 --> 00:00:57.780 the human species through space and time. An astonishing species: 00:00:57.780 --> 00:01:01.649 she is creative to the point of arriving to build universes of meaning and 00:01:01.649 --> 00:01:06.180 modes of social organization all more different from each other. 00:01:06.180 --> 00:01:09.090 The anthropology of health is study of how 00:01:09.090 --> 00:01:14.579 different cultures describe what is to be in good health, define 00:01:14.579 --> 00:01:18.420 disease and since people fall sick throughout history and time 00:01:18.420 --> 00:01:21.689 what to do when someone became ill to allow him to 00:01:21.689 --> 00:01:25.170 regain health. So traditionally we have traveled through 00:01:25.170 --> 00:01:29.189 the world to see how it was going in distant tribes. Nowadays 00:01:29.189 --> 00:01:35.069 the anthropology of health is very much more focused on our own practices 00:01:35.069 --> 00:01:39.240 knowing that in our societies exist of course biomedicine, which is the 00:01:39.240 --> 00:01:44.039 main method of care to which the most people speak up when they 00:01:44.039 --> 00:01:47.549 are going badly but that there are plenty of others proposals as well. Whether they are 00:01:47.549 --> 00:01:51.959 ancestral or traditional medicines such as Chinese medicine, Ayurvedic 00:01:51.959 --> 00:01:57.469 or very recent proposals such as quantum medicine or epigenetics 00:01:57.469 --> 00:02:01.709 and then to observe how according to his convictions 00:02:01.709 --> 00:02:06.899 of its culture of its origin the people use a particular discipline 00:02:06.899 --> 00:02:13.230 depending on the difficulty. It's extraordinary. Anyway I will put 00:02:13.230 --> 00:02:19.319 jean dominique michel's blog in in the program description 00:02:19.319 --> 00:02:23.490 and I frankly advise you to do so go and read because it is 00:02:23.490 --> 00:02:27.840 fascinating everything he writes. So when there was this covid crisis 00:02:27.840 --> 00:02:30.069 What did you think at first? Did you think about anything? 00:02:30.069 --> 00:02:37.409 You've seen a little bit of normal way or how you lived it? 00:02:37.409 --> 00:02:42.670 So if you want for the specialists the issue of epidemics and health 00:02:42.670 --> 00:02:46.140 of a possible pandemic is a risk recurring 00:02:46.140 --> 00:02:51.970 so if you're over fifteen years old, you'll be able to all have examples in mind when it comes to the flu 00:02:51.970 --> 00:02:56.260 avian influenza, swine flu from the flu this the flu that and to 00:02:56.260 --> 00:03:01.000 every time we dread the big one, you're know it's the word we use for 00:03:01.000 --> 00:03:04.329 describe the earthquake in California has a very important flaw 00:03:04.329 --> 00:03:06.760 and we know that if one day there is a very large earthquake 00:03:06.760 --> 00:03:09.430 there could be a shift of land a whole part of the 00:03:09.430 --> 00:03:14.079 california in the ocean obviously we hopes that this will not happen, though. 00:03:14.079 --> 00:03:17.319 seismologists know it will happen sooner or later. Is it in a 00:03:17.319 --> 00:03:21.609 year or ten thousand years from now we don't know. So we are vigilant with regard to 00:03:21.609 --> 00:03:25.359 seismic activity in california, and the people who work in the 00:03:25.359 --> 00:03:29.140 the health sector, especially the infectious diseases are seeing departures 00:03:29.140 --> 00:03:33.069 epidemic regularly because the virus mutate and then each time we get a new one. 00:03:33.069 --> 00:03:37.750 said is it going to be the big one or not? Then obviously that of my 00:03:37.750 --> 00:03:40.540 point of view, but I don't want to have look a little cynical or 00:03:40.540 --> 00:03:45.220 indifferent is always interesting and a new trick in China and to try 00:03:45.220 --> 00:03:49.419 quickly enough to capture the size order of the epidemic and the actual risk 00:03:49.419 --> 00:03:53.349 that it makes the population of find out which disease is different 00:03:53.349 --> 00:03:58.750 each time and then I feel like saying with this observation of monitoring systems that 00:03:58.750 --> 00:04:03.400 tend to overreact depending on the precautionary principle. 00:04:03.400 --> 00:04:07.449 Today we all know the predictions Professor Ferguson's delirious in 00:04:07.449 --> 00:04:10.060 England which is wrong every time but in orders of magnitude 00:04:10.060 --> 00:04:13.690 monstrous and yet we continue to be turn to him as soon as there is a new one. 00:04:13.690 --> 00:04:15.750 fire starting by saying: "How bad is it, doctor? » 00:04:15.750 --> 00:04:20.380 The WHO of course, but all the politicians in general do not want to get involved in the 00:04:20.380 --> 00:04:25.120 be blamed for not having done enough also tends to ring the bell very quickly. 00:04:25.120 --> 00:04:29.580 and then in a process of classical scientific discovery on 00:04:29.580 --> 00:04:33.430 find out what's going on as you go along. measures the passing weeks and then 00:04:33.430 --> 00:04:35.510 there we can have a more complete view of the reasonable. 00:04:35.510 --> 00:04:38.750 And what is special but I you don't learn anything in the case that we 00:04:38.750 --> 00:04:42.500 occupies is that even though the first signals arrived very quickly 00:04:42.500 --> 00:04:46.070 which allowed to be reassured about the order of magnitude, and say: 00:04:46.070 --> 00:04:49.550 it is an epidemic event like those to which one is accustomed. 00:04:49.550 --> 00:04:54.290 We see since the month of March a species of collective delirium settling in and which 00:04:54.290 --> 00:04:58.250 treats in a totally exceptional and unreasonable some 00:04:58.250 --> 00:05:02.180 which is of the order of usual and this obviously poses 00:05:02.180 --> 00:05:05.810 a lot of questions about what organize our companies but also on 00:05:05.810 --> 00:05:11.810 the collective mentality that has as much lost sight of what an epidemic is. 00:05:11.810 --> 00:05:16.880 And you thought you could have a day live what we are currently experiencing 00:05:16.880 --> 00:05:22.220 with this covid crisis? Depends on what you're talking about. 00:05:22.220 --> 00:05:25.160 if ever it is the epidemic itself yes, because that's what we're going through 00:05:25.160 --> 00:05:29.390 regularly. It should be remembered that according to that we include in the name the dead in the 00:05:29.390 --> 00:05:36.350 ehpad and according to the count we are between the 9th and 14th epidemic episodes 00:05:36.350 --> 00:05:41.390 the most serious since the post-war period. So there have been between 8 and 13 plus 00:05:41.390 --> 00:05:46.460 serious before. And I've had e-mails from a retired doctor who has 00:05:46.460 --> 00:05:48.950 said but you don't surrender counts the famous Hong Kong flu 00:05:48.950 --> 00:05:53.270 in '68 69, the dead were laid out in the hospital corridors it was absolutely 00:05:53.270 --> 00:05:57.470 "as worse" as Quebecers would say that today and therefore there is nothing 00:05:57.470 --> 00:06:01.220 exceptional in this epidemic so I tell them very quickly the epidemic it 00:06:01.220 --> 00:06:05.630 even is normal. On the other hand, what I I didn't expect to see and who continues to 00:06:05.630 --> 00:06:10.730 the time to be interested and to be afraid is this collective over-reaction but which has 00:06:10.730 --> 00:06:14.080 still look like they're being piloted by very special interests. 00:06:14.080 --> 00:06:18.500 to put it another way and I go to the essential but then I'm sure we'll be able to 00:06:18.500 --> 00:06:23.360 will develop this or that element. The covid it's a 100 billion dollar business 00:06:23.360 --> 00:06:30.320 of dollars and if he had been treated like 30 years ago... 00:06:30.320 --> 00:06:33.560 or 40 years old and thinking, "There's a peak. epidemic has people dying 00:06:33.560 --> 00:06:36.320 it's mostly people at the end of life after it goes down there's more death. 00:06:36.320 --> 00:06:39.360 everything is fine, we are starting to live again. » is 100 billion 00:06:39.360 --> 00:06:45.389 Dollars of failure for people and companies an industry that only requires 00:06:45.389 --> 00:06:49.620 that to capture this manna but which have need to be able to capture it, 00:06:49.620 --> 00:06:53.520 maintain a collective psychosis unfortunately, this is what we see 00:06:53.520 --> 00:06:57.150 for months and months of a in a way that is totally out of sync 00:06:57.150 --> 00:07:01.289 in relation to the epidemiological reality and then in a way then that is 00:07:01.289 --> 00:07:05.789 also totally damaging to the population. We are many to have it 00:07:05.789 --> 00:07:09.599 says very quickly month from the month of March but that there was a risk that the 00:07:09.599 --> 00:07:13.860 measures included the following fter none of them had any basis 00:07:13.860 --> 00:07:17.430 serious scientists would risk cause consequences 00:07:17.430 --> 00:07:20.699 much worse than what we have been doing. sought to avoid 00:07:20.699 --> 00:07:25.409 and this is something that we can see today and the research is coming out 00:07:25.409 --> 00:07:29.690 that allow to document this intuition that many of us have had. 00:07:29.690 --> 00:07:34.110 so to do this you still need to the complicity of two things 00:07:34.110 --> 00:07:38.060 of each country's politics and the media. How is this possible? 00:07:38.060 --> 00:07:42.539 So if you want me to study these questions for a long time because 00:07:42.539 --> 00:07:47.610 that they are central and perhaps that one of the easiest ways to do so is to 00:07:47.610 --> 00:07:51.150 to speak is to make comparisons why hasn't it been 40 years 00:07:51.150 --> 00:07:55.589 that we've switched to energies renewable and that we have not been 00:07:55.589 --> 00:07:59.250 weaned from energy dependency fossils and well because the interests 00:07:59.250 --> 00:08:03.270 at stake are such that even though this transition was possible 00:08:03.270 --> 00:08:07.560 that it would have been beneficial there are lobbies that have locked the 00:08:07.560 --> 00:08:11.969 things and subsidized energies fossils by refusing to subsidize 00:08:11.969 --> 00:08:15.900 renewable energies: "when are we going to not even subsidize energy". 00:08:15.900 --> 00:08:19.409 but in the meantime they were subsidizing oil extraction and therefore there has been 00:08:19.409 --> 00:08:23.279 status quo until today, when we are realizes that it's very late for 00:08:23.279 --> 00:08:29.159 consider changes so if you want this configuration of 00:08:29.159 --> 00:08:33.539 supposedly democratic country but which in fact do not have the freedom of the 00:08:33.539 --> 00:08:38.550 decisions they make and whose decision-making bodies are totally independent. 00:08:38.550 --> 00:08:42.899 infiltrated by the industries concerned it's something that is generic 00:08:42.899 --> 00:08:47.710 today. It's about pesticides it's about energy it's about 00:08:47.710 --> 00:08:52.420 armament concerns all fields of life. And in the medical field this 00:08:52.420 --> 00:08:56.710 which is interesting is that the specialists have been making this diagnosis since 00:08:56.710 --> 00:09:01.120 about fifteen years. And the specialists it's a university ethics center 00:09:01.120 --> 00:09:05.920 is the medical journals themselves editors and former editors 00:09:05.920 --> 00:09:09.400 chief editor of all major journals medical ten since years ago 00:09:09.400 --> 00:09:13.780 something deeply rotten in the system that spoils research. 00:09:13.780 --> 00:09:17.260 Research is already being tinkered with at departure to achieve the desired results 00:09:17.260 --> 00:09:20.710 after magazines and reviews 00:09:20.710 --> 00:09:24.790 scientists are only the cases of marketing resonance that do not make 00:09:24.790 --> 00:09:29.130 their work to sort the quality of the research. We saw it recently with 00:09:29.130 --> 00:09:34.470 the Lancet and the NEJM which published, Excuse my French, shit! 00:09:34.470 --> 00:09:39.700 But it's passed through the filter, why, because deep down they are only 00:09:39.700 --> 00:09:43.630 the more scientific journals are marketing sounding boards of 00:09:43.630 --> 00:09:46.960 certain interests. And then there are the instances 00:09:46.960 --> 00:09:51.220 country by country governments that are completely infiltrated by 00:09:51.220 --> 00:09:54.880 industry representatives. Obviously you are being sued as much as I am. 00:09:54.880 --> 00:09:59.050 It sounds very conspiratorial except that this is the house of commons 00:09:59.050 --> 00:10:03.790 the British senate, which says so. French that says it, it's the university 00:10:03.790 --> 00:10:07.840 of Oxford who says so. We have a problem why because people who are 00:10:07.840 --> 00:10:12.790 at the helm in these different circles are all in serious conflict of interest with 00:10:12.790 --> 00:10:17.560 the industry and therefore necessarily that It skews everything. So the term which is 00:10:17.560 --> 00:10:22.810 retained technically it is that of systemic corruption. So it makes you angry 00:10:22.810 --> 00:10:25.450 a lot of people when you use it because they feel they are being made to feel like 00:10:25.450 --> 00:10:30.430 accuses of being corrupt, and that's not all. has done this systemic corruption. 00:10:30.430 --> 00:10:34.900 Systematic corruption means that if I hadn't paid you wouldn't have me 00:10:34.900 --> 00:10:38.230 received on your antenna so I am obliged to to lubricate the leg to be able to 00:10:38.230 --> 00:10:41.140 get the desired result. Systemic corruption 00:10:41.140 --> 00:10:46.960 is when the rules of the game are sufficiently distorted to a large extent 00:10:46.960 --> 00:10:50.340 by legal facts, i.e. that it is not illegal. 00:10:50.340 --> 00:10:54.460 You see in France we have a lot noted that the expert committees were 00:10:54.460 --> 00:10:58.259 all with a conflict of interest is not illegal. 00:10:58.259 --> 00:11:01.470 They publish it on the site any citizen can go and see : Karine Lacombe touches so much, 00:11:01.470 --> 00:11:06.209 thing touches so much, so it's not forbidden but in the meantime we 00:11:06.209 --> 00:11:09.209 say the ethics centers of the universities is problematic because 00:11:09.209 --> 00:11:14.999 that it comes as a final result to what the mercantile interest of 00:11:14.999 --> 00:11:18.989 industry takes precedence over the needs of the population in decisions that are 00:11:18.989 --> 00:11:22.889 taken. And that again it's a lot of fun because today 00:11:22.889 --> 00:11:27.600 it's a scandal, but you can find the articles of Le Figaro, Le Monde, de 00:11:27.600 --> 00:11:32.300 Libération, reports from TF1, 2 3 4 5 10 years ago where 00:11:32.460 --> 00:11:37.229 they say so! Because it is a truth. And what strikes me a lot in 00:11:37.229 --> 00:11:41.009 the times we live in, it's that all of a sudden it's as if by saying: "there are some 00:11:41.009 --> 00:11:45.449 narco-traffickers in Mexico "what everything the world knows, people say: 00:11:45.449 --> 00:11:47.009 "But how can you say such a thing! 00:11:47.009 --> 00:11:50.489 You are plotting! You also believe to the aliens! How is it 00:11:50.489 --> 00:11:53.809 possible to say something as scandalous" when everyone knows it! 00:11:53.809 --> 00:11:59.720 It is known, it is not hidden. And there we is in an extraordinary fiction 00:11:59.720 --> 00:12:04.859 actually played by the authorities, the media that consists despite common sense 00:12:04.859 --> 00:12:09.329 of what has been proven that the entire world knows, to make people believe, to create a 00:12:09.329 --> 00:12:15.119 fiction that is false and that would leave to believe that decisions are made 00:12:15.119 --> 00:12:20.279 for the good of the population then that they are not. And here we are 00:12:20.279 --> 00:12:25.889 actually in a hiatus so I thinks it's partly orchestrated 00:12:25.889 --> 00:12:30.389 because we're in a logic criminological. I make a little aside 00:12:30.389 --> 00:12:34.679 but one of the world's leading epidemiologists to the world, Professor Gøtzsche, 00:12:34.679 --> 00:12:37.439 wrote in 2014 a book called "Organized Crime, 00:12:37.439 --> 00:12:41.730 pharmaceutical industry" where he shows that industry strategies are 00:12:41.730 --> 00:12:47.609 the same as those of the mafia. This book in 2014 receives the award of 00:12:47.609 --> 00:12:51.839 the British Medical Association doctors they know what they are made of 00:12:51.839 --> 00:12:56.220 speak. And what does the professor describe Gøtzsche ? It's that there are tricks at the 00:12:56.220 --> 00:13:00.749 level of drugs to impose them that industries even put 00:13:00.749 --> 00:13:03.839 on the drug market that they know they don't have the effect of 00:13:03.839 --> 00:13:08.429 beneficial and toxic effects. There are deaths. It is discovered at a 00:13:08.429 --> 00:13:11.560 given time. The pharmaceutical industries are 00:13:11.560 --> 00:13:17.020 criminally convicted. But if you ever makes 15 billion in sales 00:13:17.020 --> 00:13:21.670 with a cure, that you have 500 million 1 billion in fines and 00:13:21.670 --> 00:13:26.440 interest you leave with a net profit of 13.5 billion and therefore what the 00:13:26.440 --> 00:13:30.730 Professor Gøtzsche, it is not me who says so, I read what the specialists say and 00:13:30.730 --> 00:13:32.980 I allow myself to make it known to my risks and perils 00:13:32.980 --> 00:13:37.150 what Gøtzsche says is that deep down inside the industry today has incorporated 00:13:37.150 --> 00:13:41.320 this penal dimension and the sanctions as part of the 00:13:41.320 --> 00:13:45.640 business model. Like when you pay your rent to do your shows, 00:13:45.640 --> 00:13:48.520 the pharmaceutical industry, it puts a billion set aside for fines 00:13:48.520 --> 00:13:53.080 that she's going to harvest, but that doesn't stop her not to go and Gøtzsche gives 15 00:13:53.080 --> 00:13:58.870 different examples of this strategy it there was the Mediator in France there was the 00:13:58.870 --> 00:14:03.850 Levothyrox, finally it is repeatedly and in the flu cases we are interested in 00:14:03.850 --> 00:14:07.180 h1n1 rock has made tens of billions 00:14:07.180 --> 00:14:10.870 of benefits with a drug inefficient that was useless Tamiflu 00:14:10.870 --> 00:14:15.940 which he has managed to sell to the entire states by reselling vaccines I believe that 00:14:15.940 --> 00:14:20.710 Roselyne Bachelot had purchased 93,000 doses of vaccine at the time, which were used for the following 00:14:20.710 --> 00:14:25.660 useless but you see that everything is not not lost for everyone. And so it 00:14:25.660 --> 00:14:31.090 there's really a criminological dynamic. I know that what I'm saying is again 00:14:31.090 --> 00:14:35.500 appallingly shocking but I invite any person of good faith and common sense 00:14:35.500 --> 00:14:38.650 and a little bit capable of being document by itself to go 00:14:38.650 --> 00:14:42.610 check the sources. There are many in the blog posts I read. And from 00:14:42.610 --> 00:14:46.480 new it is known as the white wolf. So what's amazing about the 00:14:46.480 --> 00:14:49.150 figure and which I am in any case astonished by. it's commented is it 00:14:49.150 --> 00:14:52.660 strings that big, how does such enormous manipulations... 00:14:52.660 --> 00:14:56.590 you've seen the fraudulent studies published in the biggest ducks 00:14:56.590 --> 00:15:00.940 how do these guys dare to do things like this and how 00:15:00.940 --> 00:15:05.230 explain that despite the all-too-favorable side obvious fact of dirty handling 00:15:05.230 --> 00:15:07.990 that they implement they still manage to get by 00:15:07.990 --> 00:15:13.300 and impose their agenda? There are questions that are strong but also 00:15:13.300 --> 00:15:18.190 quite worrying as to what organizes our company and who makes the decisions 00:15:18.190 --> 00:15:23.230 about what. So how do you explain that there are people like you 00:15:23.230 --> 00:15:26.890 like me like all my subscribers who are fully awake to it, 00:15:26.890 --> 00:15:31.930 that become even you know very in anger at this huge masquerade 00:15:31.930 --> 00:15:36.070 this manipulation which is there under their eyes they see it and how you 00:15:36.070 --> 00:15:40.780 explains that such a dichotomy with people completely asleep 00:15:40.780 --> 00:15:44.890 who see nothing. How is this possible? 00:15:44.890 --> 00:15:48.600 There's a lot of thinking about this. in social psychology. 00:15:48.600 --> 00:15:53.440 I believe that a first element of answer is to recognize that 00:15:53.440 --> 00:15:57.580 in any case the evolution of our societies is dictated by an agenda that has not been 00:15:57.580 --> 00:16:02.650 democratically chosen. If you take 1980, politicians 00:16:02.650 --> 00:16:10.210 Chirac, Mitterrand, Giscard... who would have said : "The world of 2022 is the one I want, 00:16:10.210 --> 00:16:16.290 for my country and for my children. » No one. No one would have dared. 00:16:16.290 --> 00:16:21.880 However, this is what is needed, year after year. So, here we are rather 00:16:21.880 --> 00:16:25.720 in political science but it is essential and urgent 00:16:25.720 --> 00:16:29.950 to detect that there is a checkmate of the popular will through 00:16:29.950 --> 00:16:36.700 representative democracy that makes that we get to the point of adopting the measures 00:16:36.700 --> 00:16:40.150 that the population does not want, does not want, does not want wishes not to, see that it does not support 00:16:40.150 --> 00:16:44.080 but which are imposed on him towards and against everything. So what are 00:16:44.080 --> 00:16:47.650 the mechanisms the processes it's a story complex, it's not my area of expertise. 00:16:47.650 --> 00:16:52.300 All I can do is to note. On countless occasions, 00:16:52.300 --> 00:16:56.320 we force the population that is supposed have the power and be able to decide through 00:16:56.320 --> 00:17:01.900 her elected officials to things she doesn't want. So that's the first element. 00:17:01.900 --> 00:17:08.740 The second is that the efficiency of this impregnation and this taking of 00:17:08.740 --> 00:17:13.650 power by the lobbies the industry is such, that no one can oppose it 00:17:13.650 --> 00:17:18.730 except to get shot. I know it's not quite your edge. 00:17:18.730 --> 00:17:22.990 but Danielle Mitterrand at one point recalled that when her husband was elected, she told him: 00:17:22.990 --> 00:17:26.620 "So it's okay, you're going to apply the program. that you say you want to implement. » 00:17:26.620 --> 00:17:29.539 and that he replied: "No no, you're Don't understand, I have a government, 00:17:29.539 --> 00:17:33.169 I don't have the power. I can't go against the World Bank, against the IMF 00:17:33.169 --> 00:17:37.009 against Europe, so there you go, I'm not going to do anything. do what I said I would do 00:17:37.009 --> 00:17:41.929 I can't, I can't afford it. » So you see anyway. 00:17:41.929 --> 00:17:45.919 So that's one element. And then it's efficiency in fact. 00:17:45.919 --> 00:17:48.499 of this stranglehold on public decisions 00:17:48.499 --> 00:17:55.220 and then afterwards there is unfortunately all in one elite conditioning 00:17:55.220 --> 00:18:02.710 and the population, not to be noticed, not to react, not to measure. 00:18:02.710 --> 00:18:07.460 So the elites are relatively easy because in the end it's people 00:18:07.460 --> 00:18:11.119 which are a bit like in religion. You see when you're a scientist today... 00:18:11.119 --> 00:18:14.239 in a scientific committee it's a bit like being a cardinal. 00:18:14.239 --> 00:18:16.729 at the church so all you have to do is repeat 00:18:16.729 --> 00:18:20.690 the same as the others there is an esprit de corps and we have 00:18:20.690 --> 00:18:25.099 much seen in the controversy around hydroxychloroquine. You will remember 00:18:25.099 --> 00:18:29.179 one of the great reproaches of these scientists was to say: 00:18:29.179 --> 00:18:32.239 "But Raoult who does not study randomized in double blind so that 00:18:32.239 --> 00:18:36.049 is worth nothing. "And Raoult said it right away, I have been checked throughout the 00:18:36.049 --> 00:18:39.830 scientific literature he is right: a randomized double-blind study 00:18:39.830 --> 00:18:43.639 is not better for evaluating a cure in infectiology that a study 00:18:43.639 --> 00:18:47.509 observational like the one he did. But then you had this whole chorus 00:18:47.509 --> 00:18:52.580 cardinals who said: "No, it is the dogma and if we don't respect the dogma, 00:18:52.580 --> 00:18:56.960 we know nothing. "So there you really have an effect of conformism to the extreme 00:18:56.960 --> 00:19:05.149 benefits, which makes the elites of the world's have become... it has become difficult for them 00:19:05.149 --> 00:19:08.840 to think intelligently. Then afterwards at the population level 00:19:08.840 --> 00:19:14.479 Well, it's all about the benefit of the doubt, on the fact that they can't imagine 00:19:14.479 --> 00:19:18.109 that the dice can be piped and then for some time now 00:19:18.109 --> 00:19:23.419 years the fact that we are depriving more and more the more people that are formed 00:19:23.419 --> 00:19:27.080 ways to think. When for example Rhetoric has been removed from the school curriculum. 00:19:27.080 --> 00:19:30.169 Rhetoric is what makes it possible to to understand how is organized 00:19:30.169 --> 00:19:33.769 the discourse of the other who seeks to persuade us. And if you stop teaching rhetoric 00:19:33.769 --> 00:19:36.769 you give more to people the means to identify manipulations. 00:19:36.769 --> 00:19:41.090 Currently we are in the process of to remove all humanities 00:19:41.090 --> 00:19:43.370 and the humanities from everywhere: it's the only thing 00:19:43.370 --> 00:19:47.590 that opens the mind. So what allows scientist not to become a cardinal 00:19:47.590 --> 00:19:54.409 and to remain a scientist is to have had access to the humanities and art, 00:19:54.409 --> 00:19:58.429 to sociology, to have travelled in other countries to have had access 00:19:58.429 --> 00:20:02.480 to other things than his field and today we hyper-specialize 00:20:02.480 --> 00:20:07.399 so many people in some kind of tunnel that they become hyper-sharp in 00:20:07.399 --> 00:20:10.669 their small areas of knowledge but completely dumb about everything else 00:20:10.669 --> 00:20:15.770 and therefore can no longer contrast the know that they have 00:20:15.770 --> 00:20:19.669 with a global apprehension of reality. And when you mix it all together, well, it's 00:20:19.669 --> 00:20:23.570 ideal conditions so that in fact the population the citizens 00:20:23.570 --> 00:20:29.409 and women citizens are deprived of all power not only to act but even to react. 00:20:29.409 --> 00:20:33.890 That is to say that at school they make these things. from the school. That is to say that at school 00:20:33.890 --> 00:20:39.289 until the baccalaureate the programs become more and more stupid. It is not enough to 00:20:39.289 --> 00:20:42.620 take a look at the 1923 bin and try to do so 00:20:42.620 --> 00:20:46.909 you will see the difference. And then we actually specialize it 00:20:46.909 --> 00:20:51.080 in a domain, and then there it remains a specialist in his field, he can no longer see anything 00:20:51.080 --> 00:20:53.899 of what's going on around it. Yes and you see what I was passionate about 00:20:53.899 --> 00:20:59.299 in the covid is that experts in the covid have said, but the enormity 00:20:59.299 --> 00:21:03.789 nonsense like me I wouldn't even have Dare to think of saying such things. 00:21:03.789 --> 00:21:10.159 So we can see that this expertise by dint of shrinkage it loses even 00:21:10.159 --> 00:21:14.929 its validity in the field in which it operates. See? That is to say that basically 00:21:14.929 --> 00:21:19.640 what makes expertise is to have an solid knowledge and then a base that 00:21:19.640 --> 00:21:23.510 allows to have counterpoints of and guardrails and that 00:21:23.510 --> 00:21:27.320 it allows you to think intelligently. But when you isolate people in 00:21:27.320 --> 00:21:32.120 hypers rutting and we make them do that. all their life, that is to say that even 00:21:32.120 --> 00:21:36.350 in their field of expertise they lose the skill so I had some 00:21:36.350 --> 00:21:39.860 17 examples. Doctors who we explained here that everyone was going to 00:21:39.860 --> 00:21:44.840 getting sick because no one had never encountered the coronavirus. 00:21:44.840 --> 00:21:47.899 Yes, but there are four others. Today, we realize that there are 00:21:47.900 --> 00:21:50.580 a cross-immunity that half of the people a priori are already immune. 00:21:50.720 --> 00:21:55.740 So, you see the super virologist from the unity of Geneva that the President 00:21:55.740 --> 00:21:58.410 macron has just hired to evaluate the French policy 00:21:58.410 --> 00:22:02.070 he said such a stupid thing in the month of March. 00:22:02.070 --> 00:22:07.559 And because he is an expert everyone listened to this as the gospel word 00:22:07.559 --> 00:22:10.470 and in the aftermath we said: "yes but the science is complicated we can't 00:22:10.470 --> 00:22:14.820 always know everything in advance". But no one asks the question: 00:22:14.820 --> 00:22:18.870 how is it that experts supposed to be experts, 00:22:18.870 --> 00:22:21.630 can say such nonsense? And that for me is still the 00:22:21.630 --> 00:22:28.169 question of substance. And then how the world's number one expert 00:22:28.169 --> 00:22:33.030 in infectious diseases, Didier Raoult, is not listened to at all. Is treated 00:22:33.030 --> 00:22:37.590 a charlatan? I don't get it. What I have observed a lot 00:22:37.590 --> 00:22:42.270 by frequenting scientists, is that the best in their field 00:22:42.270 --> 00:22:45.720 are extraordinary people open-minded 00:22:45.720 --> 00:22:51.960 humble, competent, they recognize their ignorance they are relatively free 00:22:51.960 --> 00:22:59.100 in relation to power games, well, Raoult it is solid, it is very clever, compared to power. 00:22:59.100 --> 00:23:02.850 We don't do it to him. But still it is that he has preserved its integrity, in particular by 00:23:02.850 --> 00:23:06.480 report to the pharmaceutical industry. So the "all good" in their field 00:23:06.480 --> 00:23:12.750 they are of this nature. And then after you have the cohorts of followers 00:23:12.750 --> 00:23:15.480 who are much less gifted who are much less awesome that are 00:23:15.480 --> 00:23:19.320 much less competent, but who they are at the contrary boast 00:23:19.320 --> 00:23:24.620 of their powers, knowledge and authority and that gives the fanatics. 00:23:24.620 --> 00:23:32.520 See? So how are we going to get out of this of all this? Well, listen as well as you can 00:23:32.520 --> 00:23:39.450 or not at all. How do you see yourself the next three months? 00:23:39.450 --> 00:23:43.130 Look, I don't know. I used to say that I am a 00:23:43.130 --> 00:23:47.539 joyful pessimist. So I'm not optimistic because I have the impression that the critical mass 00:23:47.539 --> 00:23:50.960 is not reached that the locking of power systems 00:23:50.960 --> 00:23:55.100 is such that no counter-power cannot be opposed at this time, 00:23:55.100 --> 00:23:57.860 already the media I teach you nothing no longer play their role at all 00:23:57.860 --> 00:24:00.500 of counter-power and then you saw even when 00:24:00.500 --> 00:24:05.870 guys like Raoult, like Peronne or like me at my modest level 00:24:05.870 --> 00:24:10.150 did everything we could to alert... pure loss, you see. 00:24:10.150 --> 00:24:14.690 At least in appearance. So I have the impression that for the moment 00:24:14.690 --> 00:24:18.860 it's irresistible. That said, I have a question that I ask myself 00:24:18.860 --> 00:24:23.659 it's deep down in themselves in their inner conviction 00:24:23.659 --> 00:24:30.409 what people really think when you know they are less than 27 or 22%. 00:24:30.409 --> 00:24:34.460 to trust the French government on health issues today 00:24:34.460 --> 00:24:39.610 there are more than 70% of people who know that they can't be trusted. 00:24:40.000 --> 00:24:45.020 So on the obligation of the mask they seem to agree more than 60%. 00:24:45.020 --> 00:24:48.770 but we don't really know what it is about the conviction of each one. 00:24:48.770 --> 00:24:52.010 Things are today divided by a in such a way that there can be no 00:24:52.010 --> 00:24:55.850 of gathering energies for challenge the policy in place 00:24:55.850 --> 00:24:58.940 but it is not excluded that at some point in time given there are movements of revolt. 00:24:58.940 --> 00:25:02.780 Either because people are tired of Wear a mask that at first serves no purpose. 00:25:02.780 --> 00:25:06.140 but it is also totally suffocating and is like 00:25:06.140 --> 00:25:11.510 a violation of bodily integrity. And then I think that in the scenarios 00:25:11.510 --> 00:25:16.370 possible futurologics is likely the imposition of the vaccine 00:25:16.370 --> 00:25:20.320 that may generate a reaction. That's what they have in mind. 00:25:20.320 --> 00:25:23.960 they will do everything they can to get there. But I have the impression 00:25:23.960 --> 00:25:27.110 as much as people can accept being locked in their homes and wearing a mask 00:25:27.110 --> 00:25:33.770 when it comes to making inject something dangerous 00:25:33.770 --> 00:25:36.950 because you don't make a vaccine in six months. that's not true, with a technology 00:25:36.950 --> 00:25:40.640 that we don't know and that can be dangerous with consequences 00:25:40.640 --> 00:25:46.549 from which the vaccine companies have already exempted themselves. by an impunity that is assured to them 00:25:46.549 --> 00:25:48.999 regardless of the consequences... 00:25:48.999 --> 00:25:52.839 there we see that you still have a bomb. And then I wouldn't be 00:25:52.839 --> 00:25:56.829 perhaps moreover that the vaccine will be completely harmless and that 00:25:56.829 --> 00:26:01.329 and that it will work just fine. We don't know. But I think that people at that time 00:26:01.329 --> 00:26:06.909 when this taxation will be advanced will have a defensive reaction. 00:26:06.909 --> 00:26:11.069 Will it be enough to thwart the plan? To be continued... 00:26:11.069 --> 00:26:16.599 Often when talking about WHO of GAVI's vaccines we think of Switzerland. 00:26:16.599 --> 00:26:23.499 You are in Switzerland, how are things at home? What is it? Where are you at? 00:26:23.499 --> 00:26:27.729 to give news from Switzerland. Wearing masks, vaccinations, politics? 00:26:27.729 --> 00:26:31.119 If you want there was something really interesting to observe 00:26:31.119 --> 00:26:34.239 because God knows if I have been critical French health responses 00:26:34.239 --> 00:26:37.059 which in my opinion so I totally agree with Peronne's analysis. 00:26:37.059 --> 00:26:41.439 everything that could be done of false and bad was done 00:26:41.439 --> 00:26:45.069 and Switzerland has a peculiarity is that basically it systematically copies France 00:26:45.069 --> 00:26:49.839 but not as bad so we confined it to a time when it was 00:26:49.839 --> 00:26:54.639 probably not necessary but we have semi-confined. Here, the mask is imposed 00:26:54.639 --> 00:26:59.139 in some cantons not in others but only in enclosed spaces 00:26:59.139 --> 00:27:05.759 outdoors not. The latest developments they talk about the objective is to achieve 00:27:05.759 --> 00:27:09.399 80% of volunteers in the population who agree to be vaccinated. 00:27:09.399 --> 00:27:13.839 So you see its soft measures, i.e. 00:27:13.839 --> 00:27:17.109 that we are not in a logic authoritarian as in France 00:27:17.109 --> 00:27:21.849 or pyramidal or centralized but it is not very different, but it is a little bit 00:27:21.849 --> 00:27:25.749 less serious. And finally already as that citizen is nice, because 00:27:25.749 --> 00:27:29.769 I prefer this diet to the one you have have suffered. And then on the other hand it has 00:27:29.769 --> 00:27:34.539 the dreaded side effect that it cuts the grass under the feet 00:27:34.539 --> 00:27:39.819 of any reaction. Since it's not that bad. 00:27:39.819 --> 00:27:44.169 And then you know it Switzerland is still the plate 00:27:44.169 --> 00:27:48.449 the turntable of all the mafias international: sports federations, 00:27:48.449 --> 00:27:53.469 international organizations, money laundering, all corruptions 00:27:53.469 --> 00:27:59.259 finally converge here and therefore people like Bill Gates are 00:27:59.259 --> 00:28:03.370 "ass and shirt" with the government but as in all countries 00:28:03.370 --> 00:28:06.639 but that's the rule of the game today. and me what amazes me 00:28:06.639 --> 00:28:11.009 is that it is not a problem. Yeah that's what's crazy! 00:28:11.009 --> 00:28:15.340 And wait, do you really think that Mr. Gates has bad intentions? 00:28:15.340 --> 00:28:17.799 But that's not the point. The point is that a guy as rich as he is 00:28:17.799 --> 00:28:22.049 does not have to dictate health policy states wherever it comes from. 00:28:22.049 --> 00:28:26.470 And now I think we're very entangled. i.e. it is as if 00:28:26.470 --> 00:28:29.730 we were told: "But you suspect people of being dishonest? » 00:28:29.730 --> 00:28:34.389 They may or may not be, I don't know. But that's not the question. 00:28:34.389 --> 00:28:38.080 The question is that of probity and of transparency of governance systems. 00:28:38.080 --> 00:28:45.990 And here we have an obviously major problem. But nevertheless 00:28:45.990 --> 00:28:54.100 80% of the volunteer population that's a huge thing! 00:28:54.100 --> 00:28:58.350 But there is no vaccination obligation in Switzerland. for the moment. 00:28:58.350 --> 00:29:03.360 And then how would I say once you've scared people enough 00:29:03.360 --> 00:29:08.740 you claim to have a safe vaccine even if it is not, you see most of them 00:29:08.740 --> 00:29:12.009 people are not going to ask questions and we will say: "Phew, that was a close call. 00:29:12.009 --> 00:29:16.809 we didn't die from that terrifying thing." even if they are 40 years old and are not sick. 00:29:16.809 --> 00:29:19.840 "and then I'm offered something 00:29:19.840 --> 00:29:22.409 who is guaranteed to save my life or to protect me 00:29:22.409 --> 00:29:30.789 so I'm going. That's the kind of... Yes I see. Which makes sense. 00:29:30.789 --> 00:29:32.700 As long as they are afraid. 00:29:32.700 --> 00:29:38.169 Today Didier Raoult has switched to the French antennas on a media, 00:29:38.169 --> 00:29:42.249 a long interview and he said: "You traditional media, 00:29:42.249 --> 00:29:45.820 you are overwhelmed by the media alternatives including youtube " 00:29:45.820 --> 00:29:50.100 and the reporter said "yes". Is that a first sign? 00:29:50.100 --> 00:29:55.210 Look, it's interesting but I think that it also illustrates the reason 00:29:55.210 --> 00:30:00.220 for which said alternative media are being monitored 00:30:00.220 --> 00:30:03.549 like never before and that we actually see the massive return of measures 00:30:03.549 --> 00:30:07.720 infringements of the freedom of opinion and expression you know something about it 00:30:07.720 --> 00:30:12.130 so it's true but after it's a bit like a cybernetic loop 00:30:12.130 --> 00:30:15.909 i.e. the more the media betray their fundamental mission 00:30:15.909 --> 00:30:21.370 and today it's just and terrible... the more they lose people's trust 00:30:21.370 --> 00:30:24.419 so the more people lose interest look elsewhere 00:30:24.419 --> 00:30:28.299 and then here it is at first it came with a lot 00:30:28.299 --> 00:30:34.330 criticism of the fact that what circulating on the internet is not mediated 00:30:34.330 --> 00:30:38.679 so the journalists are there to do this work to discriminate to balance 00:30:38.679 --> 00:30:42.220 points of view, but they don't make the points at all. in any case. So it became 00:30:42.220 --> 00:30:46.990 only tool species of propaganda that no longer respect 00:30:46.990 --> 00:30:53.049 the values the missions and the charter ethics of the profession. 00:30:53.049 --> 00:30:55.990 And then on the internet you can find everything and anything of the things well done 00:30:55.990 --> 00:31:01.809 intelligent things of things excessive things. But finally 00:31:01.809 --> 00:31:05.500 It's obvious that it's overwhelmed. Look at the number of spectators you have. 00:31:05.500 --> 00:31:13.350 My blogs have had nine million readers, you know? "Le Monde" can go get dressed. 00:31:13.350 --> 00:31:19.299 And I'm all the more proud of it because from the beginning I told myself 00:31:19.299 --> 00:31:24.820 I'm going to make papers that are complex that addresses difficult aspects 00:31:24.820 --> 00:31:30.490 which are extremely well documented I have given up simplify anything 00:31:30.490 --> 00:31:35.140 by taking the bet people are smart. Then there are people who may disagree. 00:31:35.140 --> 00:31:38.980 with my analyses or not appreciate my way of writing but you 00:31:38.980 --> 00:31:42.640 see what I mean, provide quality content and in fact 00:31:42.640 --> 00:31:46.120 that's what made it big and I think that it's really... it reflects the fact that people 00:31:46.120 --> 00:31:51.070 have a need a thirst a thirst to have information that is solid and reliable 00:31:51.070 --> 00:31:55.299 that is supported and then not supported. in those silly journalistic shortcuts 00:31:55.299 --> 00:31:58.450 that we see all the time. If you have any doubts 00:31:58.450 --> 00:32:03.190 on wearing the mask outdoors you are an "anti-mask". This is absolute nonsense, 00:32:03.190 --> 00:32:05.620 is the zero degree of reflection. 00:32:05.620 --> 00:32:09.549 Yes that's right. And the media are there in it unfortunately. They are in 00:32:09.549 --> 00:32:12.970 this extreme caricature and I find that people are turning away from it. 00:32:12.970 --> 00:32:18.210 I even heard a great professor say that the one who is 00:32:18.210 --> 00:32:20.930 against the fact that there will be a second wave 00:32:20.930 --> 00:32:24.530 that one who is against the fact that the mask protects are negationists. 00:32:24.530 --> 00:32:28.610 How can we explain, how can we get there? You did a great show 00:32:28.610 --> 00:32:31.910 what to say to someone who calls you a schemer, but me... 00:32:31.910 --> 00:32:35.060 there's always a question that I didn't understand: what does it mean to be a conspirator? 00:32:35.060 --> 00:32:43.220 If they call you a schemer, What are you plotting? 00:32:43.220 --> 00:32:46.220 For me there is a little two levels to your answer. 00:32:46.220 --> 00:32:53.120 First of all, there are conspiracies. There are plots all the time. 00:32:53.120 --> 00:32:57.590 You know the adage: there are two positions to avoid: believing that everything is a conspiracy. 00:32:57.590 --> 00:33:00.890 and to believe that nothing is conspiracy. So there are always plots. 00:33:00.890 --> 00:33:05.390 There are bribes for the attribution from the olympic games there are wars 00:33:05.390 --> 00:33:08.900 that are triggered on bases false only to be able to 00:33:08.900 --> 00:33:14.360 to go and steal the oil at last there is shenanigans in a lot of places and therefore 00:33:14.360 --> 00:33:21.440 For me, the first answer is to be "aware". of this reality and then it does not hide it. 00:33:21.440 --> 00:33:26.860 and therefore ask questions. And then there's another conspiracy 00:33:26.860 --> 00:33:30.950 so always be careful not to over-psychologize or psychiatrize 00:33:30.950 --> 00:33:36.260 but the fact remains that the human mind is inhabited by 00:33:36.260 --> 00:33:40.640 a natural curiosity and that the most difficult thing for him is to be 00:33:40.640 --> 00:33:43.670 in inconsistencies that are not understandable on the basis of what we are told. 00:33:43.670 --> 00:33:48.650 And one of the ways to be comforted or to find comfort is 00:33:48.650 --> 00:33:53.900 to imagine things that do not exist but which allow to give meaning 00:33:53.900 --> 00:33:58.460 to these elements of reality. And this is the real conspiracy drift. You see what 00:33:58.460 --> 00:34:02.180 I mean? It's a way to to put back consistency is wrong. 00:34:02.180 --> 00:34:06.890 Because coherence is a basic neurological needs. 00:34:06.890 --> 00:34:11.690 And then, of course, we get into things who become delusional at some point. 00:34:11.690 --> 00:34:16.040 But what is complicated in this case is that in fact negationism 00:34:16.040 --> 00:34:20.960 he is on the side of those who deny the possibility of any problems 00:34:20.960 --> 00:34:24.380 of any scheming or any intentionality. Because it is not true 00:34:24.380 --> 00:34:28.610 it's like that nowhere in life. So they turn the thing around 00:34:28.610 --> 00:34:30.850 but these reversals it is at the same time very Orwelian 00:34:30.850 --> 00:34:35.200 and it's very perverse. See? When the government explains to you that we lock up 00:34:35.200 --> 00:34:38.560 the elderly and in the EHPAD to protect them and then in fact 00:34:38.560 --> 00:34:41.500 it's a hecatomb, it's perverse. If you want to protect 00:34:41.500 --> 00:34:44.220 old people, you don't do that. You do otherwise. 00:34:44.220 --> 00:34:48.670 So we are permanently in these reversals and then after "conspiracy"... 00:34:48.670 --> 00:34:51.400 well, it's just like any other label if I call you a "leftist". 00:34:51.400 --> 00:34:58.080 or "Trumpeter", all this means that by the label that I stick on you 00:34:58.080 --> 00:35:01.840 I no longer need to be interested in this you say, I disqualified you right away. 00:35:01.840 --> 00:35:06.370 And that's where, you know, I did a small "tag" on social networks 00:35:06.370 --> 00:35:12.580 "neither sheep nor schemers, yes to debate, no to insult". 00:35:12.580 --> 00:35:15.370 Someone who is convinced that the port of the outdoor mask can be useful, 00:35:15.370 --> 00:35:18.460 I am open to discuss with her. 00:35:18.460 --> 00:35:21.430 I don't share this conviction but maybe she knows things 00:35:21.430 --> 00:35:24.630 that I don't know and that with his contact I will be able to think things differently 00:35:24.630 --> 00:35:28.540 maybe the other way around I'll be able to say: "But listen, look at Holland 00:35:28.540 --> 00:35:32.110 and in Scandinavia do not do it, they do not have no more problems than us so 00:35:32.110 --> 00:35:35.560 for me it is rather the proof that it is a measure that is not necessary 00:35:35.560 --> 00:35:39.460 but at least there is a dialogue that is possible and the real dialogue is when 00:35:39.460 --> 00:35:44.080 you listen to what the other has to say. Processes like what you describe 00:35:44.080 --> 00:35:47.350 but that we see systematized today in the media and politics 00:35:47.350 --> 00:35:52.480 it's really a way to close the debate before it is even open 00:35:52.480 --> 00:35:58.000 and it scares me because historically it is on this basis 00:35:58.000 --> 00:36:02.500 that all the worst excesses have always been built. Absolutely. 00:36:02.500 --> 00:36:06.760 It is the first step towards dictatorships this. Yes, that's the fact 00:36:06.760 --> 00:36:11.350 not to be able to stand the difference not to tolerate divergent points of view 00:36:11.350 --> 00:36:16.870 to immediately dirty the person you have in your home. in front of you. And I think you've been there. 00:36:16.870 --> 00:36:26.620 I too have 55 brooms, not born of the last rain, I've never had such violent attacks. 00:36:26.620 --> 00:36:31.300 as malevolent and as twisted that this time. And we felt that there was 00:36:31.300 --> 00:36:35.350 a kind of rage, it was necessary at all costs demolish the man because 00:36:35.350 --> 00:36:41.830 his message was unbearable. And now we are no longer in civility. 00:36:41.830 --> 00:36:45.340 We are no longer in respect we are no longer in humanity. 00:36:45.340 --> 00:36:50.260 Yes, and many people tell me that that is to say that many doctors 00:36:50.260 --> 00:36:52.930 many lawyers have not been used to 00:36:52.930 --> 00:36:56.380 to this violence. And this violence they have been 00:36:56.380 --> 00:37:00.640 all very shocked. Personally I am used to it because 00:37:00.640 --> 00:37:04.750 the de-bunkers I have on my back for years and the funny thing is 00:37:04.750 --> 00:37:09.460 is that when they called me they started always with this sentence: "I am not a 00:37:09.460 --> 00:37:15.280 conspirator" to apologize you already see what they were going to tell me 00:37:15.280 --> 00:37:18.190 because they found that things did not go into all this management 00:37:18.190 --> 00:37:24.070 of the crisis and the epidemic. But some have let go because 00:37:24.070 --> 00:37:28.150 precisely it is of an unheard-of violence. But really as you say it is 00:37:28.150 --> 00:37:31.360 something the people who listen to us can't understand because they 00:37:31.360 --> 00:37:35.650 have never experienced this. Yes, it's a first alarm. 00:37:35.650 --> 00:37:38.470 I had already met some perverts narcissistic on my personal journey 00:37:38.470 --> 00:37:43.030 so I knew from experience 00:37:43.030 --> 00:37:47.350 this extreme malevolence from someone who seeks to destroy you at all costs 00:37:47.350 --> 00:37:50.860 without any consideration for his humanity. So I had some personal landmarks 00:37:50.860 --> 00:37:55.300 if you want. But what I found most already struck then already some of these 00:37:55.300 --> 00:37:59.050 attacks as far as I'm concerned I'm sure they come from the industry. 00:37:59.050 --> 00:38:03.070 they have been sponsored we know that there are boxes that do that. 00:38:03.070 --> 00:38:06.550 who will search your past on the internet and then inquire 00:38:06.550 --> 00:38:10.240 to be able to get dirty so I've had things done very well 00:38:10.240 --> 00:38:16.750 it was very well documented but always turned in the direction 00:38:16.750 --> 00:38:19.270 to prove what a bad guy I am and someone who doesn't know his field. 00:38:19.270 --> 00:38:21.490 while I am a very good expert, 00:38:21.490 --> 00:38:26.470 sorry to have to call him back, but really with this intention. That being said 00:38:26.470 --> 00:38:30.430 that struck me the most in the experience, is the number of relays of this malevolence 00:38:30.430 --> 00:38:34.780 I know people who have told me... but I stopped reading 00:38:34.780 --> 00:38:39.460 at the end of two paragraphs, it's was nauseated. It was so mean. 00:38:39.460 --> 00:38:42.740 See? And then after me I saw a lot of people. 00:38:42.740 --> 00:38:46.490 including people I know in the health systems of people who have 00:38:46.490 --> 00:38:50.089 positions of power, people with who I thought was in a good relationship 00:38:50.089 --> 00:38:56.000 mutual esteem, people with whom I worked on projects and suddenly, all of a sudden 00:38:56.000 --> 00:39:00.050 relayed "posts" but from a extreme malevolence, saying that I was 00:39:00.050 --> 00:39:05.000 an impostor, a crook, but you see some hyper serious stuff. And all of a sudden 00:39:05.000 --> 00:39:11.270 you have a small notable of institutions "hop" which sends it to its network. And then 00:39:11.270 --> 00:39:16.040 I know enough about human psychology to think 00:39:16.040 --> 00:39:20.630 that they must be convinced of the usefulness to do it you see. They didn't say: 00:39:20.630 --> 00:39:27.349 We're going to hurt Jean-Dominique, we'll be happy. There is something in them 00:39:27.349 --> 00:39:31.460 who must have adhered to this manipulation. But afterwards I find it breathtaking 00:39:31.460 --> 00:39:35.359 that the editor of a medical journal a former hospital director 00:39:35.359 --> 00:39:41.510 a person in charge of a health system monstrosities post about me 00:39:41.510 --> 00:39:47.420 when they know me and they know who I am And there, the collective process 00:39:47.420 --> 00:39:52.910 of stoning where finally everyone throws his stone. It's like mobbing 00:39:52.910 --> 00:39:57.140 in schoolyards : you get the creep who spots a guy 00:39:57.140 --> 00:40:01.579 that does not belong to him it goes against, then afterwards he's rounding everybody up so that everyone's gonna fuck up 00:40:01.579 --> 00:40:05.150 his punch. And that's what worries me a little bit, so fine, 00:40:05.150 --> 00:40:08.680 again I am happily quite philosophical at this stage of my life 00:40:08.680 --> 00:40:12.710 and sufficiently aware when to what motivates the values that are mine 00:40:12.710 --> 00:40:16.880 but I find that there is something this is what happens to young people who 00:40:16.880 --> 00:40:20.150 commit suicide in order to be taken to task on social networks, you know? 00:40:20.150 --> 00:40:23.990 It is this kind of mechanism. And what strikes me is that there is still no 00:40:23.990 --> 00:40:27.589 seems to be an immunity in the collective compared to that. That is to say 00:40:27.589 --> 00:40:30.410 that the responsibility of each a human being worthy of the name 00:40:30.410 --> 00:40:34.640 in the face of attacks of this nature is to say stop, I'm not participating in this. 00:40:34.640 --> 00:40:37.910 We can agree or disagree with Mr. Trotta. we can agree or disagree 00:40:37.910 --> 00:40:42.470 with Mr. Michel, but I don't participate to something of this nature. And what I saw 00:40:42.470 --> 00:40:46.400 on the contrary, it's a bit as if a lot of Mr. and Mrs. everyone 00:40:46.400 --> 00:40:50.030 were completely embarking on this proposal for a mimetic revival. 00:40:50.030 --> 00:40:54.380 But then we know when there are times of great 00:40:54.380 --> 00:40:58.850 collective tension of great stress there are often outlets for violence 00:40:58.850 --> 00:41:02.720 where we take a poor guy who's passing by for a ride. or who had the misfortune to dare to open his mouth 00:41:02.720 --> 00:41:05.750 then all the others keep quiet and that there is a rampage 00:41:05.750 --> 00:41:10.670 it's lynching, you know. Here I am often read about it on social networks. 00:41:10.670 --> 00:41:15.550 This is the first time I've seen it live. It feels funny. And at the same time... 00:41:15.550 --> 00:41:20.000 Many doctors have told me: "I thought I had friends 00:41:20.000 --> 00:41:22.100 thought they had even very close friends 00:41:22.100 --> 00:41:26.570 I thought I was working with confidence and because I had a different attitude 00:41:26.570 --> 00:41:30.410 a different reasoning from them they lynched me. Overnight. 00:41:30.410 --> 00:41:34.700 It was so violent that I had been shocked. Psychologically shocked. » 00:41:34.700 --> 00:41:39.590 I call it a little bit the virus of truth. It's where you discover your real friends. 00:41:39.590 --> 00:41:46.880 And this is incredible. 00:41:46.880 --> 00:41:51.770 Have you been able to see in foreign countries, and you've been around the world a little bit. 00:41:51.770 --> 00:41:59.210 models that still have you a little bit given back a little hope? 00:41:59.210 --> 00:42:02.570 Already here it gave me hope, I don't know. what it is for you, but me 00:42:02.570 --> 00:42:05.720 I received, but literally, thousands of messages of support 00:42:05.720 --> 00:42:12.830 but of a generosity! People but who write 4, 5, 6, 7 paragraphs where they talk about themselves. 00:42:12.830 --> 00:42:18.230 Which are painted in such goodness to say, "Thank you so much for doing what you do! » 00:42:18.230 --> 00:42:21.410 You know me at the beginning my intention 00:42:21.410 --> 00:42:24.500 it was very sanito-genetic. I said to myself: but it's so anxiety-provoking, 00:42:24.500 --> 00:42:29.120 it's so traumatic, that it is absolutely necessary to give 00:42:29.120 --> 00:42:31.580 response elements reassuring to people for 00:42:31.580 --> 00:42:34.760 that they can say, "Yes, I have to be careful, but no reason to panic. » 00:42:34.760 --> 00:42:38.390 And I've had, but literally, thousands of messages from people who said to me: 00:42:38.390 --> 00:42:41.480 "But when I read you, It was a breath of fresh air, 00:42:41.480 --> 00:42:45.800 it has been a lifeline in the ambient delirium. How good it made me feel! » 00:42:45.800 --> 00:42:50.540 And many of them said to me: "You put words to what I knew to be right 00:42:50.540 --> 00:42:55.760 but I didn't have of vocabulary to say. » 00:42:55.760 --> 00:42:58.520 And that is perversity. It's when you make an entire population believe 00:42:58.520 --> 00:43:02.130 that she is wrong. So what a great sense of what's going on. 00:43:02.130 --> 00:43:05.609 So this intention, me it is also what did I agree to? 00:43:05.609 --> 00:43:09.480 to take hits and put me forward and suffer consequences. 00:43:09.480 --> 00:43:13.730 But the generosity of the people, You see, she's so touching, 00:43:13.730 --> 00:43:20.549 she is so beautiful. And then afterwards, the... 00:43:20.549 --> 00:43:24.869 It also means that if you hadn't been there if I hadn't been there so full 00:43:24.869 --> 00:43:28.650 thousands of others like us, had not been there, these people would be today 00:43:28.650 --> 00:43:35.160 in a rather strong psychological distress. Yes. And you probably know 00:43:35.160 --> 00:43:39.960 that the outlook is very bleak in this area. That is to say that there is already a wave 00:43:39.960 --> 00:43:42.420 in psychiatry, which in fact, is the real second wave. 00:43:42.420 --> 00:43:47.339 And then of people who do not suffer of classic psychiatric illnesses. 00:43:47.339 --> 00:43:51.030 It's not bipolar people or psychotics who all of a sudden 00:43:51.030 --> 00:43:54.150 have an outbreak because of the epidemic. These are people who were not suffering from anything. 00:43:54.150 --> 00:43:58.559 beforehand and which are going into a spin, so much the treatment, especially media treatment, 00:43:58.559 --> 00:44:04.470 was violent. And you see a friend professor of neuromarketing 00:44:04.470 --> 00:44:08.279 which studies the effects on the brain of advertising messages, was telling me 00:44:08.279 --> 00:44:13.859 that they could not believe they were imagining the effect on who this part is 00:44:13.859 --> 00:44:18.630 of the brain which is in permanent vigilance to see if there is any danger or not. 00:44:18.630 --> 00:44:22.260 Have you ever been at home, has there been a presence even from a relative, but you didn't know 00:44:22.260 --> 00:44:24.450 that he was there. Then all of a sudden you make a monster jump. 00:44:24.450 --> 00:44:30.660 "You scared me! " It's the amygdala. And this amygdala is bludgeoned. 00:44:30.660 --> 00:44:35.910 for months and months and months, and in a way but totally delirious! 00:44:35.910 --> 00:44:40.980 And I said very early on, if we were doing the same hype, with for example 00:44:40.980 --> 00:44:45.109 heart attacks : "Today, 220 heart attacks in France! 00:44:45.109 --> 00:44:50.010 Today 10% more heart attacks! » After three weeks everyone 00:44:50.010 --> 00:44:52.920 is afraid of having a heart attack and then everything the world becomes hypochondriac. 00:44:52.920 --> 00:44:57.089 Everything knows what I mean. You've really got a bludgeon panic. Again a second time 00:44:57.089 --> 00:44:59.430 I tried to oppose it, obviously in pure loss... 00:44:59.430 --> 00:45:03.359 And that of course it's going to have sustainable impacts. We can see that suicide rates 00:45:03.359 --> 00:45:07.289 explode, the precariousness, because there again, the precariousness the effect on the economy will be devastating. 00:45:07.289 --> 00:45:12.660 And so we are in the process of to create a disaster. 00:45:12.660 --> 00:45:15.960 I used as a metaphor at the very beginning: it's like bombing the cities 00:45:15.960 --> 00:45:21.090 to fight against malaria. Now we go on except that there is 00:45:21.090 --> 00:45:26.700 even more mosquitoes. We continue to bomb! And I say to myself: 00:45:26.700 --> 00:45:31.490 but what conscience do the rulers have to make decisions that are 00:45:31.490 --> 00:45:36.210 so traumatic without even asking the question?! When you see kids wearing masks 00:45:36.210 --> 00:45:40.620 at school what's it going to do on their psyche, on their security needs, 00:45:40.620 --> 00:45:44.540 of trust? We are creating monstrous damage 00:45:44.540 --> 00:45:50.160 for something that's between the 9th and the 14th most serious epidemic 00:45:50.160 --> 00:45:57.510 and which has been extinct since May. There is no more epidemic. Yes, there is. It is terrible. 00:45:57.510 --> 00:46:05.630 In Switzerland kids will have to carry the mask back? Yes, above 12 years old. 00:46:06.020 --> 00:46:13.300 This is so absurd. You know, I've published a text by a psychiatrist who specializes 00:46:13.460 --> 00:46:17.220 in the delirious puffs. There are examples in the story 00:46:17.220 --> 00:46:24.480 notably in Orleans in 1968. And tells him we are in a collective delirium. 00:46:24.480 --> 00:46:29.130 That is to say that school principals are so panicked at the thought 00:46:29.130 --> 00:46:32.760 that a child can get sick and infect an elderly person and then dies 00:46:32.760 --> 00:46:37.500 and then let it be his fault as a school principal we block, everything is locked, 00:46:37.500 --> 00:46:43.320 we secure everything, but in a deadly way really in a collective delirium, 00:46:43.320 --> 00:46:46.800 but I'm really thinking about the meaning psychiatric term. It is in any case 00:46:46.800 --> 00:46:53.010 what this psychiatrist says. In addition, we in France, we had for two months, 00:46:53.010 --> 00:46:57.990 almost three months, one non-access to the hospital for everything that is 00:46:57.990 --> 00:47:00.330 heart attack, stroke, treatment of cancers... 00:47:00.330 --> 00:47:03.690 Here again it is a second wave quite important. 00:47:03.690 --> 00:47:08.700 In addition to psychiatry. I wondered about containment, 00:47:08.700 --> 00:47:13.140 Because when you watch epidemiology "textbooks", 00:47:13.140 --> 00:47:16.980 None of them recommend containment. like what we've been through. None. 00:47:16.980 --> 00:47:20.070 It's not in the recommendations. They say that it may be useful 00:47:20.070 --> 00:47:25.360 at the very beginning of the epidemic for nip the epidemic in the bud, 00:47:25.360 --> 00:47:28.780 but once the virus has spread a little bit, it's worse than anything 00:47:28.780 --> 00:47:32.680 because it brings together contagious people with not contagious people etc... 00:47:32.680 --> 00:47:38.050 So I really tried to see what research said and the latest studies 00:47:38.050 --> 00:47:42.730 that went out in England show that two thirds of the deaths during 00:47:42.730 --> 00:47:49.120 containment did not die from the covid. They died from the causes you say. 00:47:49.120 --> 00:47:50.980 And that the consequences will be long term. 00:47:50.980 --> 00:47:55.330 So it's absolutely true and here it is it's this drama we've fallen into. 00:47:55.330 --> 00:47:59.640 To take precautions we caused the damage is infinitely worse. 00:47:59.640 --> 00:48:03.880 And with governors that have so much toppled over 00:48:03.880 --> 00:48:06.880 in denial and their belief systems, that even today they are 00:48:06.880 --> 00:48:14.110 totally incapable of questioning themselves, to consider that maybe it was 00:48:14.110 --> 00:48:18.370 not the right thing to do and therefore against all odds, continue to assert the things we know 00:48:18.370 --> 00:48:22.690 today that they are false. You think they're so dumb that they're not 00:48:22.690 --> 00:48:27.610 being aware of it, that they were wrong? Then no, 00:48:27.610 --> 00:48:33.210 I think that... already there was a headline in the newspaper, at a given time : 00:48:33.210 --> 00:48:37.540 "Those who don't want to wear masks are often 00:48:37.540 --> 00:48:42.250 narcissistic or psychopathic". You remember the trick. I replied on social networks: 00:48:42.250 --> 00:48:45.190 "Wait, guys, wait, narcissists... and psychopaths, 00:48:45.190 --> 00:48:49.090 in general they are found in positions of power, to frighten others 00:48:49.090 --> 00:48:53.650 and to enjoy the power they have. taken to terrorize the population. » 00:48:53.650 --> 00:48:57.100 Not to be confused. So I think a part people in power who are sociopaths. 00:48:57.100 --> 00:49:02.350 And that unfortunately we have channels of accession to power 00:49:02.350 --> 00:49:05.740 that favour problematic profiles. 00:49:05.740 --> 00:49:11.860 This is a pretty clear statement. Then the other thing, I see it here because 00:49:11.860 --> 00:49:16.840 our politicians in Geneva they're not bad guys. 00:49:16.840 --> 00:49:22.780 They are people of good will, but what I observe is, it's when you made a mistake 00:49:22.780 --> 00:49:28.240 for a long time, the psychological cost to realize that you made a mistake 00:49:28.240 --> 00:49:33.280 is such, that there is this process of denial which is well known to psychologists, 00:49:33.280 --> 00:49:37.180 that is being put in place and that make against all odds, they continue to assert 00:49:37.180 --> 00:49:41.860 that this is the way it is, but almost in good faith. They convinced themselves. 00:49:41.860 --> 00:49:46.810 That's crazy. The Minister of Health in Geneva, 00:49:46.810 --> 00:49:51.850 he held an extraordinary reasoning on social networks by saying : 00:49:51.850 --> 00:49:54.790 "You don't realize, it's because we have taken the steps we have taken 00:49:54.790 --> 00:50:02.410 in March/April that today there are no more of sick people. And those who criticized us 00:50:02.410 --> 00:50:06.040 already in March/April to take measures taken continue to us 00:50:06.040 --> 00:50:12.100 criticize to maintain the measures then that if we got them up, it'd be like, you know, it'd be like... 00:50:12.100 --> 00:50:17.400 as in March and April. You see, this is completely wrong as a result. 00:50:17.400 --> 00:50:21.250 In Sweden they have not confined the epidemic. is extinguished. 00:50:21.250 --> 00:50:27.190 So nowhere does it go back to the conviction in which is this type: 00:50:27.190 --> 00:50:30.370 "if we have arrived at the result in which we have is today it's because of what we've done " 00:50:30.370 --> 00:50:36.040 it's totally fallacious. It is not true. That's not the reason. But he is 00:50:36.040 --> 00:50:39.040 so convinced and I think that would be so costly on a personal level 00:50:39.040 --> 00:50:43.410 to open our eyes to the fact that no, everything he imposed from a to z 00:50:43.410 --> 00:50:48.180 was essentially unnecessary, that there really is a process 00:50:48.180 --> 00:50:54.130 basic psychological issues that concern us all, which is denial. 00:50:54.130 --> 00:50:59.590 Yes, that's right, they are in denial. And how do you see it, 00:50:59.590 --> 00:51:02.140 you wanted to talk about international politics, how you see a little bit, 00:51:02.140 --> 00:51:06.790 international politics by to this covid. Do you see 00:51:06.790 --> 00:51:11.860 countries that you feel have done well choices and others that are really 00:51:11.860 --> 00:51:18.160 vectors of corruption Listen to the corruption it is everywhere and then 00:51:18.160 --> 00:51:21.220 systemic corruption in particular. It is the former Minister of Health of Ecuador 00:51:21.220 --> 00:51:24.010 who did a paper in the Lancet to talk about corruption 00:51:24.010 --> 00:51:30.370 who is who intrinsically. The abuse of language that we all commit 00:51:30.370 --> 00:51:34.510 is to talk about health policy. We don't have a health policy. 00:51:34.510 --> 00:51:39.880 We have a disease industry. It's not at all the same. In the West today 80% of diseases 00:51:39.880 --> 00:51:44.260 are chronic. They are diseases of civilization that would be avoidable. 00:51:44.260 --> 00:51:48.100 It is the product of our food, 00:51:48.100 --> 00:51:52.560 pollution, stress, lack of movement, lack of sleep. 00:51:52.560 --> 00:51:58.810 So we could reduce by 80% the diseases from which the population suffers 00:51:58.810 --> 00:52:02.260 if it was protected against the factors of risk and in fact we do nothing, 00:52:02.260 --> 00:52:08.050 or next to nothing. It causes this damage and then we have a medicine 00:52:08.050 --> 00:52:13.090 very specialized, very expensive that comes repair people who are damaged but for whom 00:52:13.090 --> 00:52:15.730 nothing was done at the collective level to avoid damage. 00:52:15.730 --> 00:52:21.280 So that's not a health policy. it is an economy of disease. 00:52:21.280 --> 00:52:25.240 From this point of view, the logic is the same, worldwide, because they have the same interests 00:52:25.240 --> 00:52:30.130 that configures it. After what has been observed fun and interesting in this epidemic. 00:52:30.130 --> 00:52:34.000 is that poor countries have much better, because they reacted much better, because they have 00:52:34.000 --> 00:52:38.380 the habit of dealing with not much, because in many countries 00:52:38.380 --> 00:52:41.080 chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine they know it very well, 00:52:41.080 --> 00:52:45.340 they eat it like smarties, in any case. in some regions they know 00:52:45.340 --> 00:52:47.980 that it is not dangerous, and above all, they are not interesting markets. 00:52:47.980 --> 00:52:52.210 for pharmas. So to panic the United States France and 00:52:52.210 --> 00:53:00.130 Switzerland is a guaranteed jackpot. Panic in Senegal, or... you know... 00:53:00.130 --> 00:53:03.790 There, there was this reversal and Raoult said it early on. But I find 00:53:03.790 --> 00:53:08.080 that they gave us lessons pragmatism and intelligence 00:53:08.080 --> 00:53:13.240 but with a slightly disturbing perspective, which is the decay of the West. 00:53:13.240 --> 00:53:18.850 If today we are so incapacitated to evaluate the seriousness of a phenomenon 00:53:18.850 --> 00:53:22.900 to take answers pragmatic and efficient 00:53:22.900 --> 00:53:26.110 and to recognize when, along the way we made some bad decisions. 00:53:26.110 --> 00:53:33.280 It's just that we're ripe for the EHPAD. Public policies 00:53:33.280 --> 00:53:36.540 in the West are just but completely senile. 00:53:36.540 --> 00:53:41.500 It is clear. And you as a scientist still recognized, 00:53:41.500 --> 00:53:44.830 were you still invited on TV sets 00:53:44.830 --> 00:53:51.890 on mainstream radio stations in Switzerland? In France a lot. The French have been very nice. 00:53:51.890 --> 00:53:56.750 Just one or two who have been around me who are science journalists 00:53:56.750 --> 00:54:01.250 so very close to the... but the French was very nice 00:54:01.250 --> 00:54:08.690 notably André Bercoff, but in Switzerland even though I had to be invited 00:54:08.690 --> 00:54:15.110 about 50 times on national television between 2000 and 2017, 00:54:15.110 --> 00:54:18.890 to talk about anything and everything but that's what an anthropologist does: 00:54:18.890 --> 00:54:22.070 I was not made to talk about the death of the pope. John Paul II, and of the staging 00:54:22.070 --> 00:54:26.090 of the Catholic Church... it's great... Sancto subito, 00:54:26.090 --> 00:54:31.700 Sancto subito... fuck, guys, they're had been paid, prepared signs... 00:54:31.700 --> 00:54:35.990 An anthropologist, he decodes that. On the other hand, when it's my field of expertise, 00:54:35.990 --> 00:54:40.220 I have been, but boycotted, not according to the boycotting but radio and television 00:54:40.220 --> 00:54:45.590 began to say: "Yeah, we don't know where this Mr. Michel comes from, 00:54:45.590 --> 00:54:50.030 it is dubious, we're going to check his CV, we feel like 00:54:50.030 --> 00:54:53.450 he doesn't know what he's talking about, finally you see a demolition company... 00:54:53.450 --> 00:54:59.690 But who was up to the fact to tell lies about me 00:54:59.690 --> 00:55:03.920 at prime time. In this case in my exchanges 00:55:03.920 --> 00:55:06.800 with an editor in chief I had done screenshots of the mails we got 00:55:06.800 --> 00:55:11.390 which allowed me on my blog to say but here's what the guy said 00:55:11.390 --> 00:55:14.090 on air and this is the reality of our exchange. 00:55:14.090 --> 00:55:18.350 It doesn't shock you that the editor-in-chief of a so-called prestigious daily newspaper 00:55:18.350 --> 00:55:21.970 allows himself to lie only to smear someone's reputation? 00:55:21.970 --> 00:55:27.410 So no, I was confronted with something very particular and which has been systematic. 00:55:27.410 --> 00:55:35.030 Ah, it's incredible! Has he made a reaction to your blog? 00:55:35.030 --> 00:55:40.640 No, but I filed a complaint with the Swiss press council so in my opinion 00:55:40.640 --> 00:55:43.880 it is badly crossed out. I really could document the fact that he said 00:55:43.880 --> 00:55:48.590 on the air something wrong with the obvious intention of harming me 00:55:48.590 --> 00:55:51.950 and to make listeners believe that I was someone who needed above all 00:55:51.950 --> 00:55:55.940 not listen. But that's crazy. It's just unbelievable. It's really unbelievable. 00:55:55.940 --> 00:55:59.450 Yes, but that's the world today you're in. see. Me, that's where I hallucinate. 00:55:59.450 --> 00:56:02.030 You know, I was 18 years old I've been to the United States, 00:56:02.030 --> 00:56:05.090 I saw a lot of stuff I didn't know about films that were 00:56:05.090 --> 00:56:09.440 cut four times for advertising, or the same pub that was hammered all along. 00:56:09.440 --> 00:56:13.490 of a sporting event or program. I was thinking, thank God that's never going to happen. 00:56:13.490 --> 00:56:18.340 at home, you see. And then Twenty-five years later, we were there. 00:56:18.340 --> 00:56:22.070 So unfortunately this is today's world. it's a world that looks like 00:56:22.070 --> 00:56:25.760 to the advertising clip of the American presidential campaign 00:56:25.760 --> 00:56:29.660 or no matter what you say the important thing is you're trying to smear your opponent 00:56:29.660 --> 00:56:33.770 and then journalists then who in any case in Switzerland have totally 00:56:33.770 --> 00:56:38.510 lost sight of the balance of points of sight and the duty of truth in which they are 00:56:38.510 --> 00:56:41.420 to reflect things in a way approximately in line with reality. 00:56:41.420 --> 00:56:44.750 So that's the world today. 00:56:44.750 --> 00:56:50.150 And it is the same in the German-speaking part of Switzerland and in Italian-speaking Switzerland ? Yes, if you want, it's 00:56:50.150 --> 00:56:55.330 a little bit different because Switzerland has a tradition of conformity, extreme. 00:56:55.330 --> 00:57:00.050 In France you love to bite your nose off on the TV sets, everyone's screaming, 00:57:00.050 --> 00:57:03.530 it gesticulates, nobody listens to anybody 00:57:03.530 --> 00:57:08.900 and then that's a good debate. In Switzerland, it is above all nothing to say 00:57:08.900 --> 00:57:12.440 that could offend anyone, and that could disturb anyone. 00:57:12.440 --> 00:57:16.160 And anyone who creates a breach of the rule makes himself badly seen by everyone. 00:57:16.160 --> 00:57:20.900 So obviously I went quite hard you see, but by telling me the subject 00:57:20.900 --> 00:57:23.990 is so important, the stakes are so great and above all the risks 00:57:23.990 --> 00:57:28.670 that we make the population run with such bad management are such 00:57:28.670 --> 00:57:32.900 that I have a duty to open my mouth. So then I hit myself head-on 00:57:32.900 --> 00:57:39.920 to the fact that criticizing the authorities : "But Mr. Trotta, you don't think about it! » 00:57:39.920 --> 00:57:44.330 In the end it is infantilism, but which takes another form. 00:57:44.330 --> 00:57:48.890 The first interview you did, I had to pinch myself twice: he is 00:57:48.890 --> 00:57:54.610 Switzerland! Not possible. You must have shocked there in the country. 00:57:54.610 --> 00:57:59.630 That's funny of course it was shocking. And then I have the pleasure 00:57:59.630 --> 00:58:03.290 a little bit of pride, I apologize, but to see that four months 00:58:03.290 --> 00:58:07.730 later all I said was right. So what I found 00:58:07.730 --> 00:58:11.660 interesting, so of course I went quite frankly. and that, my faith, is a risk I took. 00:58:11.660 --> 00:58:14.420 but that it is mainly the fact 00:58:14.420 --> 00:58:19.520 for saying true things that shocked. As for Raoult 00:58:19.520 --> 00:58:23.869 as for Peronne, and in the hundreds of emails I have received 00:58:23.869 --> 00:58:30.770 of doctors, a significant number of said to me: "we don't dare to say 00:58:30.770 --> 00:58:35.119 what we think for fear of the consequences. » And I ask the question: 00:58:35.119 --> 00:58:39.380 what is a democracy in which doctors dare not say 00:58:39.380 --> 00:58:42.319 what they are convinced of in their soul and conscience. 00:58:42.319 --> 00:58:47.540 In the freedom of opinion, someone may have a different opinion. 00:58:47.540 --> 00:58:50.329 But what is a system where people are terrorized? 00:58:50.329 --> 00:58:56.480 That's it. And what is a system or doctors are censored? 00:58:56.480 --> 00:59:02.240 Or punished for treating people or persecuted, etc... And then I did 00:59:02.240 --> 00:59:06.670 published on my blog a lot of letters which I have called "resistant doctors". 00:59:06.670 --> 00:59:11.150 A woman doctor in Paris who fought but like a lioness 00:59:11.150 --> 00:59:16.940 so that one of those 85-year-old patients be cared for when they had decided 00:59:16.940 --> 00:59:22.099 not to treat her, to let her die, she struggled for four hours with the head doctor, 00:59:22.099 --> 00:59:30.200 she has managed to get her way, and now, she brings joy to her children and grandchildren. 00:59:30.200 --> 00:59:34.010 I had to fight against my government to find hydroxydoroquine 00:59:34.010 --> 00:59:37.670 because I was sick of the covid. And I was able to arrange a clandestine deal 00:59:37.670 --> 00:59:43.160 on a parking lot to get a drug that could save my life. 00:59:43.160 --> 00:59:48.230 I had to trick my government. 00:59:48.230 --> 00:59:53.140 What kind of world do we live in? Medicines that were on sale over the counter a short time ago. 00:59:53.140 --> 00:59:59.000 Exactly. And what keeps me knocking you see is what it looks like 00:59:59.000 --> 01:00:02.420 to be an evidence for you, it's obvious to me, but when I talk about it 01:00:02.420 --> 01:00:07.130 for example, to health officials here, they don't see why it's a problem for me. 01:00:07.130 --> 01:00:12.319 They're surprised that it makes me angry or that it shocks me 01:00:12.319 --> 01:00:17.809 or that I find it questionable. That's crazy. It's crazy but I think 01:00:17.809 --> 01:00:20.420 that we've tipped over in a collective madness. 01:00:20.420 --> 01:00:25.520 People are in awe. There's a psychic rift that makes you think more... 01:00:25.520 --> 01:00:28.940 So sometimes it goes into hysteria. 01:00:28.940 --> 01:00:32.450 I've had medical teachers who insulted me by telling me 01:00:32.450 --> 01:00:37.400 that I was dangerous. Hysterical. I wanted to throw them out. 01:00:37.400 --> 01:00:39.500 a bucket of water in the face to bring them back to their senses. 01:00:39.500 --> 01:00:44.090 University professors of medicine. It shows that the emotional brain 01:00:44.090 --> 01:00:46.370 it is even in everyone's home since 01:00:46.370 --> 01:00:49.910 just because you're a university professor that you can't be in the same state 01:00:49.910 --> 01:00:57.440 of inner panic. And he gave you one of the arguments? Yes. What did he give you? 01:00:57.440 --> 01:01:01.610 as an argument? Why were they hysterical? What were they mad at you about? Listen in part. 01:01:01.610 --> 01:01:05.810 I understood because he said that he disputed my statement 01:01:05.810 --> 01:01:09.230 that we were in a natural order of magnitude for an epidemic in terms of 01:01:09.230 --> 01:01:14.360 contagiousness, dangerousness and lethality. And he said to me, but you don't account for it! 01:01:14.360 --> 01:01:18.050 We had dozens and dozens of beds with people in intensive care, 01:01:18.050 --> 01:01:20.720 it never happened, so... and from this point of view he was not wrong. 01:01:20.720 --> 01:01:25.160 That is to say, the clinical reality, as it can be observed 01:01:25.160 --> 01:01:29.990 at the peak of an epidemic it's different the epidemiological reality that says that 01:01:29.990 --> 01:01:34.580 it didn't kill more than usual. It is two realities that are adjacent, 01:01:34.580 --> 01:01:38.630 if you want. But him because he was so anxious, and then it was a man 01:01:38.630 --> 01:01:42.860 more than 70 years old, so I think that deep down he was freaking out about himself. He felt like 01:01:42.860 --> 01:01:46.670 that death was lurking and then me, instead of fighting with him against death, 01:01:46.670 --> 01:01:49.190 I was saying that but no, but no, death was not dangerous. 01:01:49.190 --> 01:01:53.450 And then somehow he couldn't stand it. So these are arguments 01:01:53.450 --> 01:01:56.690 that he was trying to get, but I had a good time. repeat it five or six times until the moment when the 01:01:56.690 --> 01:02:01.640 where I was forced to block it social networks so much it became harassing. 01:02:01.640 --> 01:02:04.900 To explain to him: I don't dispute what you're saying. 01:02:04.910 --> 01:02:09.230 but from an epidemiological point of view that's what it is. But he had lost 01:02:09.230 --> 01:02:14.450 the ability to think about these issues. I hope that he will read and listen to you and then 01:02:14.450 --> 01:02:16.970 he will realize that, since the internet has some memory, 01:02:16.970 --> 01:02:22.010 you were right. Oh, I didn't so much confidence in it. You know what 01:02:22.010 --> 01:02:25.970 Max Planck said about scientists? He said, quite rightly, and so he who has 01:02:25.970 --> 01:02:29.369 revolutionized physics with physics quantum, he was saying a new theory 01:02:29.369 --> 01:02:34.880 is not necessary because the proponents of the ancient theories adhere to it, 01:02:34.880 --> 01:02:38.579 it is necessary because the proponents of the old theories end up dying 01:02:38.579 --> 01:02:43.290 and there's a new generation coming who has no prejudices 01:02:43.290 --> 01:02:49.440 compared to the theory. And you see, I didn't so much hope on that side. 01:02:49.440 --> 01:02:55.650 I think that people who are so robbed do not will never be right. In any case 01:02:55.650 --> 01:03:00.300 we're going to keep fighting, We've been talking for an hour. 01:03:00.300 --> 01:03:04.300 It passes quickly the time that we discuss together. 01:03:04.319 --> 01:03:11.550 In any case, Jean-Dominique, you continue. Subscribe to his blog. Read, 01:03:11.550 --> 01:03:15.420 share his articles, because Frankly, they are extremely well done, 01:03:15.420 --> 01:03:21.359 and very documented very sourced, it is really the work of a very great professional 01:03:21.359 --> 01:03:25.800 and do not hesitate to share them frankly. Jean-Dominique, thank you 01:03:25.800 --> 01:03:30.780 you can go on my channel whenever you want. Thanks to you, frankly, one moment 01:03:30.780 --> 01:03:34.260 of quality. That's why time flies. And then indeed 01:03:34.260 --> 01:03:37.290 Fortunately, free electrons as you and I dare to take 01:03:37.290 --> 01:03:41.760 their responsibilities. I've been criticized a lot not to be an academic. And at some point, 01:03:41.760 --> 01:03:45.180 my wife told me, made me observe: "But if you were a university professor 01:03:45.180 --> 01:03:47.730 with a 20-year career, you would never have dared to say what you said. » 01:03:47.730 --> 01:03:51.839 And that's where the difference lies, on the contrary it must be valued, 01:03:51.839 --> 01:03:55.140 listen to everyone and so that people can make up their own minds 01:03:55.140 --> 01:04:00.060 according to what makes sense. Thanks to you in any case. 01:04:00.060 --> 01:04:06.000 Thank you Jean-Dominique thank you bye-bye. See you soon! Ciao!