0:00:21.080,0:00:27.419
Hello friends, today is Thursday the 20th[br]August 2020 and tonight I have the privilege

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to be with Jean-Dominique Michel[br]Hi Jean-Dominique!

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Good evening Sylvano![br]Now you have become famous and

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famous throughout the French-speaking world[br]with the covid crisis,

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but tell us before this[br]crisis, Jean-Dominique Michel

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what was he doing?

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I am a health anthropologist.[br]Anthropology is the study of

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the human species through space and[br]time. An astonishing species:

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she is creative to the point of arriving[br]to build universes of meaning and

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modes of social organization all more[br]different from each other.

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The anthropology of health is[br]study of how

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different cultures describe what[br]is to be in good health, define

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disease and since people fall[br]sick throughout history and time

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what to do when someone[br]became ill to allow him to

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regain health. So[br]traditionally we have traveled through

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the world to see how it was going[br]in distant tribes. Nowadays

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the anthropology of health is very much[br]more focused on our own practices

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knowing that in our societies exist[br]of course biomedicine, which is the

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main method of care to which the[br]most people speak up when they

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are going badly but that there are plenty of others[br]proposals as well. Whether they are

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ancestral or traditional medicines[br]such as Chinese medicine, Ayurvedic

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or very recent proposals such as[br]quantum medicine or epigenetics

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and then to observe[br]how according to his convictions

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of its culture of its origin the people[br]use a particular discipline

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depending on the difficulty.[br]It's extraordinary. Anyway I will put

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jean dominique michel's blog in[br]in the program description

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and I frankly advise you to do so[br]go and read because it is

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fascinating everything he writes.[br]So when there was this covid crisis

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What did you think at first?[br]Did you think about anything?

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You've seen a little bit of[br]normal way or how you lived it?

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So if you want for the specialists[br]the issue of epidemics and health

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of a possible pandemic is a risk[br]recurring

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so if you're over fifteen years old, you'll be able to[br]all have examples in mind when it comes to the flu

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avian influenza, swine flu from[br]the flu this the flu that and to

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every time we dread the big one, you're[br]know it's the word we use for

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describe the earthquake in[br]California has a very important flaw

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and we know that if one day there is a very[br]large earthquake

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there could be a shift of[br]land a whole part of the

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california in the ocean obviously we[br]hopes that this will not happen, though.

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seismologists know it will happen[br]sooner or later. Is it in a

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year or ten thousand years from now we don't know.[br]So we are vigilant with regard to

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seismic activity in california, and the[br]people who work in the

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the health sector, especially the[br]infectious diseases are seeing departures

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epidemic regularly because the[br]virus mutate and then each time we get a new one.

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said is it going to be the big one or[br]not? Then obviously that of my

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point of view, but I don't want to have[br]look a little cynical or

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indifferent is always interesting[br]and a new trick in China and to try

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quickly enough to capture the size order[br]of the epidemic and the actual risk

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that it makes the population of[br]find out which disease is different

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each time and then I feel like saying with[br]this observation of monitoring systems that

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tend to overreact depending on the[br]precautionary principle.

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Today we all know the predictions[br]Professor Ferguson's delirious in

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England which is wrong every time[br]but in orders of magnitude

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monstrous and yet we continue to be[br]turn to him as soon as there is a new one.

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fire starting by saying:[br]"How bad is it, doctor? »

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The WHO of course, but all the[br]politicians in general do not want to get involved in the

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be blamed for not having done enough[br]also tends to ring the bell very quickly.

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and then in a process of[br]classical scientific discovery on

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find out what's going on as you go along.[br]measures the passing weeks and then

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there we can have a more complete view of the[br]reasonable.

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And what is special but I[br]you don't learn anything in the case that we

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occupies is that even though the[br]first signals arrived very quickly

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which allowed to be reassured about[br]the order of magnitude, and say:

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it is an epidemic event like those[br]to which one is accustomed.

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We see since the month of March a species[br]of collective delirium settling in and which

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treats in a totally[br]exceptional and unreasonable some

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which is of the order of usual[br]and this obviously poses

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a lot of questions about what[br]organize our companies but also on

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the collective mentality that has as much[br]lost sight of what an epidemic is.

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And you thought you could have a[br]day live what we are currently experiencing

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with this covid crisis?[br]Depends on what you're talking about.

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if ever it is the epidemic itself[br]yes, because that's what we're going through

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regularly. It should be remembered that according to[br]that we include in the name the dead in the

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ehpad and according to the count we are between[br]the 9th and 14th epidemic episodes

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the most serious since the post-war period.[br]So there have been between 8 and 13 plus

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serious before. And I've had[br]e-mails from a retired doctor who has

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said but you don't surrender[br]counts the famous Hong Kong flu

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in '68 69, the dead were laid out in the[br]hospital corridors it was absolutely

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"as worse" as Quebecers would say[br]that today and therefore there is nothing

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exceptional in this epidemic so[br]I tell them very quickly the epidemic it

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even is normal. On the other hand, what I[br]I didn't expect to see and who continues to

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the time to be interested and to be afraid is[br]this collective over-reaction but which has

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still look like they're being piloted by[br]very special interests.

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to put it another way and I go to[br]the essential but then I'm sure we'll be able to

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will develop this or that element. The covid[br]it's a 100 billion dollar business

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of dollars[br]and if he had been treated like 30 years ago...

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or 40 years old and thinking, "There's a peak.[br]epidemic has people dying

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it's mostly people at the end of life[br]after it goes down there's more death.

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everything is fine, we are starting to live again. »[br]is 100 billion

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Dollars of failure for people and[br]companies an industry that only requires

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that to capture this manna but which have[br]need to be able to capture it,

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maintain a collective psychosis[br]unfortunately, this is what we see

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for months and months of a[br]in a way that is totally out of sync

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in relation to the epidemiological reality[br]and then in a way then that is

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also totally damaging to the[br]population. We are many to have it

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says very quickly month from the month of March[br]but that there was a risk that the

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measures included the following[br]fter none of them had any basis

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serious scientists would risk[br]cause consequences

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much worse than what we have been doing.[br]sought to avoid

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and this is something that we can see[br]today and the research is coming out

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that allow to document this[br]intuition that many of us have had.

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so to do this you still need to[br]the complicity of two things

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of each country's politics and the media.[br]How is this possible?

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So if you want me to study these[br]questions for a long time because

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that they are central and perhaps[br]that one of the easiest ways to do so is to

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to speak is to make comparisons[br]why hasn't it been 40 years

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that we've switched to energies[br]renewable and that we have not been

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weaned from energy dependency[br]fossils and well because the interests

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at stake are such that even though[br]this transition was possible

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that it would have been beneficial[br]there are lobbies that have locked the

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things and subsidized energies[br]fossils by refusing to subsidize

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renewable energies: "when are we going to[br]not even subsidize energy".

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but in the meantime they were subsidizing[br]oil extraction and therefore there has been

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status quo until today, when we are[br]realizes that it's very late for

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consider changes[br]so if you want this configuration of

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supposedly democratic country but which[br]in fact do not have the freedom of the

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decisions they make and whose[br]decision-making bodies are totally independent.

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infiltrated by the industries concerned[br]it's something that is generic

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today. It's about pesticides[br]it's about energy it's about

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armament concerns all fields[br]of life. And in the medical field this

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which is interesting is that the[br]specialists have been making this diagnosis since

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about fifteen years. And the specialists[br]it's a university ethics center

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is the medical journals themselves[br]editors and former editors

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chief editor of all major journals[br]medical ten since years ago

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something deeply rotten[br]in the system that spoils research.

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Research is already being tinkered with at[br]departure to achieve the desired results

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after magazines and reviews

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scientists are only the cases of[br]marketing resonance that do not make

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their work to sort the quality of the[br]research. We saw it recently with

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the Lancet and the NEJM which published,[br]Excuse my French, shit!

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But it's passed through the filter,[br]why, because deep down they are only

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the more scientific journals are[br]marketing sounding boards of

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certain interests.[br]And then there are the instances

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country by country governments that are[br]completely infiltrated by

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industry representatives.[br]Obviously you are being sued as much as I am.

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It sounds very conspiratorial except that[br]this is the house of commons

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the British senate, which says so.[br]French that says it, it's the university

0:10:03.790,0:10:07.840
of Oxford who says so. We have a problem[br]why because people who are

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at the helm in these different circles[br]are all in serious conflict of interest with

0:10:12.790,0:10:17.560
the industry and therefore necessarily that[br]It skews everything. So the term which is

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retained technically it is that of[br]systemic corruption. So it makes you angry

0:10:22.810,0:10:25.450
a lot of people when you use it[br]because they feel they are being made to feel like

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accuses of being corrupt, and that's not all.[br]has done this systemic corruption.

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Systematic corruption means that[br]if I hadn't paid you wouldn't have me

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received on your antenna so I am obliged to[br]to lubricate the leg to be able to

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get the desired result.[br]Systemic corruption

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is when the rules of the game are[br]sufficiently distorted to a large extent

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by legal facts, i.e.[br]that it is not illegal.

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You see in France we have a lot[br]noted that the expert committees were

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all with a conflict of interest is[br]not illegal.

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They publish it on the site any citizen can[br]go and see : Karine Lacombe touches so much,

0:11:01.470,0:11:06.209
thing touches so much, so it's[br]not forbidden but in the meantime we

0:11:06.209,0:11:09.209
say the ethics centers of the[br]universities is problematic because

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that it comes as a final result to[br]what the mercantile interest of

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industry takes precedence over the needs of the[br]population in decisions that are

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taken. And that again[br]it's a lot of fun because today

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it's a scandal, but you can find[br]the articles of Le Figaro, Le Monde, de

0:11:27.600,0:11:32.300
Libération, reports from TF1,[br]2 3 4 5 10 years ago where

0:11:32.460,0:11:37.229
they say so! Because it is a truth.[br]And what strikes me a lot in

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the times we live in, it's that all of a sudden[br]it's as if by saying: "there are some

0:11:41.009,0:11:45.449
narco-traffickers in Mexico "what everything[br]the world knows, people say:

0:11:45.449,0:11:47.009
"But how can you say such a thing!

0:11:47.009,0:11:50.489
You are plotting! You also believe[br]to the aliens! How is it

0:11:50.489,0:11:53.809
possible to say something as[br]scandalous" when everyone knows it!

0:11:53.809,0:11:59.720
It is known, it is not hidden. And there we[br]is in an extraordinary fiction

0:11:59.720,0:12:04.859
actually played by the authorities, the[br]media that consists despite common sense

0:12:04.859,0:12:09.329
of what has been proven that the entire[br]world knows, to make people believe, to create a

0:12:09.329,0:12:15.119
fiction that is false and that would leave[br]to believe that decisions are made

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for the good of the population then[br]that they are not. And here we are

0:12:20.279,0:12:25.889
actually in a hiatus so I[br]thinks it's partly orchestrated

0:12:25.889,0:12:30.389
because we're in a logic[br]criminological. I make a little aside

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but one of the world's leading epidemiologists[br]to the world, Professor Gøtzsche,

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wrote in 2014[br]a book called "Organized Crime,

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pharmaceutical industry" where he shows[br]that industry strategies are

0:12:41.730,0:12:47.609
the same as those of the mafia.[br]This book in 2014 receives the award of

0:12:47.609,0:12:51.839
the British Medical Association[br]doctors they know what they are made of

0:12:51.839,0:12:56.220
speak. And what does the professor describe[br]Gøtzsche ? It's that there are tricks at the

0:12:56.220,0:13:00.749
level of drugs to impose them[br]that industries even put

0:13:00.749,0:13:03.839
on the drug market[br]that they know they don't have the effect of

0:13:03.839,0:13:08.429
beneficial and toxic effects.[br]There are deaths. It is discovered at a

0:13:08.429,0:13:11.560
given time.[br]The pharmaceutical industries are

0:13:11.560,0:13:17.020
criminally convicted. But if you ever[br]makes 15 billion in sales

0:13:17.020,0:13:21.670
with a cure, that you have 500 million[br]1 billion in fines and

0:13:21.670,0:13:26.440
interest you leave with a net profit of[br]13.5 billion and therefore what the

0:13:26.440,0:13:30.730
Professor Gøtzsche, it is not me who says so,[br]I read what the specialists say and

0:13:30.730,0:13:32.980
I allow myself to make it known to my[br]risks and perils

0:13:32.980,0:13:37.150
what Gøtzsche says is that deep down inside[br]the industry today has incorporated

0:13:37.150,0:13:41.320
this penal dimension and the[br]sanctions as part of the

0:13:41.320,0:13:45.640
business model. Like when you pay your[br]rent to do your shows,

0:13:45.640,0:13:48.520
the pharmaceutical industry, it puts a[br]billion set aside for fines

0:13:48.520,0:13:53.080
that she's going to harvest, but that doesn't stop her[br]not to go and Gøtzsche gives 15

0:13:53.080,0:13:58.870
different examples of this strategy it[br]there was the Mediator in France there was the

0:13:58.870,0:14:03.850
Levothyrox, finally it is repeatedly and in the[br]flu cases we are interested in

0:14:03.850,0:14:07.180
h1n1[br]rock has made tens of billions

0:14:07.180,0:14:10.870
of benefits with a drug[br]inefficient that was useless Tamiflu

0:14:10.870,0:14:15.940
which he has managed to sell to the entire states[br]by reselling vaccines I believe that

0:14:15.940,0:14:20.710
Roselyne Bachelot had purchased 93,000 doses of vaccine at the time, which were used for the following

0:14:20.710,0:14:25.660
useless but you see that everything is not[br]not lost for everyone. And so it

0:14:25.660,0:14:31.090
there's really a criminological dynamic.[br]I know that what I'm saying is again

0:14:31.090,0:14:35.500
appallingly shocking but I invite[br]any person of good faith and common sense

0:14:35.500,0:14:38.650
and a little bit capable of being[br]document by itself to go

0:14:38.650,0:14:42.610
check the sources. There are many in the[br]blog posts I read. And from

0:14:42.610,0:14:46.480
new it is known as the white wolf.[br]So what's amazing about the

0:14:46.480,0:14:49.150
figure and which I am in any case astonished by.[br]it's commented is it

0:14:49.150,0:14:52.660
strings that big, how does[br]such enormous manipulations...

0:14:52.660,0:14:56.590
you've seen the fraudulent studies[br]published in the biggest ducks

0:14:56.590,0:15:00.940
how do these guys dare to do[br]things like this and how

0:15:00.940,0:15:05.230
explain that despite the all-too-favorable side[br]obvious fact of dirty handling

0:15:05.230,0:15:07.990
that they implement[br]they still manage to get by

0:15:07.990,0:15:13.300
and impose their agenda? There are[br]questions that are strong but also

0:15:13.300,0:15:18.190
quite worrying as to what organizes[br]our company and who makes the decisions

0:15:18.190,0:15:23.230
about what. So how do you[br]explain that there are people like you

0:15:23.230,0:15:26.890
like me like all my subscribers who[br]are fully awake to it,

0:15:26.890,0:15:31.930
that become even you know very in[br]anger at this huge masquerade

0:15:31.930,0:15:36.070
this manipulation which is there under[br]their eyes they see it and how you

0:15:36.070,0:15:40.780
explains that such a dichotomy with[br]people completely asleep

0:15:40.780,0:15:44.890
who see nothing.[br]How is this possible?

0:15:44.890,0:15:48.600
There's a lot of thinking about this.[br]in social psychology.

0:15:48.600,0:15:53.440
I believe that a first element of[br]answer is to recognize that

0:15:53.440,0:15:57.580
in any case the evolution of our societies[br]is dictated by an agenda that has not been

0:15:57.580,0:16:02.650
democratically chosen.[br]If you take 1980, politicians

0:16:02.650,0:16:10.210
Chirac, Mitterrand, Giscard... who would have said :[br]"The world of 2022 is the one I want,

0:16:10.210,0:16:16.290
for my country and for my children. »[br]No one. No one would have dared.

0:16:16.290,0:16:21.880
However, this is what is needed, year[br]after year. So, here we are rather

0:16:21.880,0:16:25.720
in political science[br]but it is essential and urgent

0:16:25.720,0:16:29.950
to detect that there is a checkmate[br]of the popular will through

0:16:29.950,0:16:36.700
representative democracy that makes [br]that we get to the point of adopting the measures

0:16:36.700,0:16:40.150
that the population does not want, does not want, does not want[br]wishes not to, see that it does not support

0:16:40.150,0:16:44.080
but which are imposed on him towards and[br]against everything. So what are

0:16:44.080,0:16:47.650
the mechanisms the processes it's a story[br]complex, it's not my area of expertise.

0:16:47.650,0:16:52.300
All I can do is[br]to note. On countless occasions,

0:16:52.300,0:16:56.320
we force the population that is supposed[br]have the power and be able to decide through

0:16:56.320,0:17:01.900
her elected officials to things she doesn't want.[br]So that's the first element.

0:17:01.900,0:17:08.740
The second is that the efficiency of[br]this impregnation and this taking of

0:17:08.740,0:17:13.650
power by the lobbies the industry is such, [br]that no one can oppose it

0:17:13.650,0:17:18.730
except to get shot. I know[br]it's not quite your edge.

0:17:18.730,0:17:22.990
but Danielle Mitterrand at one point recalled[br]that when her husband was elected, she told him:

0:17:22.990,0:17:26.620
"So it's okay, you're going to apply the program.[br]that you say you want to implement. »

0:17:26.620,0:17:29.539
and that he replied: "No no, you're[br]Don't understand, I have a government,

0:17:29.539,0:17:33.169
I don't have the power. I can't go[br]against the World Bank, against the IMF

0:17:33.169,0:17:37.009
against Europe, so there you go, I'm not going to do anything.[br]do what I said I would do

0:17:37.009,0:17:41.929
I can't, I can't afford it. »[br]So you see anyway.

0:17:41.929,0:17:45.919
So that's one element.[br]And then it's efficiency in fact.

0:17:45.919,0:17:48.499
of this stranglehold [br]on public decisions

0:17:48.499,0:17:55.220
and then afterwards there is unfortunately[br]all in one elite conditioning

0:17:55.220,0:18:02.710
and the population, not to be noticed,[br]not to react, not to measure.

0:18:02.710,0:18:07.460
So the elites are relatively[br]easy because in the end it's people

0:18:07.460,0:18:11.119
which are a bit like in religion.[br]You see when you're a scientist today...

0:18:11.119,0:18:14.239
in a scientific committee[br]it's a bit like being a cardinal.

0:18:14.239,0:18:16.729
at the church[br]so all you have to do is repeat

0:18:16.729,0:18:20.690
the same as the others[br]there is an esprit de corps and we have

0:18:20.690,0:18:25.099
much seen in the controversy around[br]hydroxychloroquine. You will remember

0:18:25.099,0:18:29.179
one of the great reproaches[br]of these scientists was to say:

0:18:29.179,0:18:32.239
"But Raoult who does not study[br]randomized in double blind so that

0:18:32.239,0:18:36.049
is worth nothing. "And Raoult said it right away,[br]I have been checked throughout the

0:18:36.049,0:18:39.830
scientific literature he is right:[br]a randomized double-blind study

0:18:39.830,0:18:43.639
is not better for evaluating a cure[br]in infectiology that a study

0:18:43.639,0:18:47.509
observational like the one he did.[br]But then you had this whole chorus

0:18:47.509,0:18:52.580
cardinals who said: "No, it is the[br]dogma and if we don't respect the dogma,

0:18:52.580,0:18:56.960
we know nothing. "So there you really have an effect[br]of conformism to the extreme

0:18:56.960,0:19:05.149
benefits, which makes the elites of the world's[br]have become... it has become difficult for them

0:19:05.149,0:19:08.840
to think intelligently.[br]Then afterwards at the population level

0:19:08.840,0:19:14.479
Well, it's all about the benefit of the doubt, [br]on the fact that they can't imagine

0:19:14.479,0:19:18.109
that the dice can be piped[br]and then for some time now

0:19:18.109,0:19:23.419
years the fact that we are depriving more and more[br]the more people that are formed

0:19:23.419,0:19:27.080
ways to think. When for example[br]Rhetoric has been removed from the school curriculum.

0:19:27.080,0:19:30.169
Rhetoric is what makes it possible to[br]to understand how is organized

0:19:30.169,0:19:33.769
the discourse of the other who seeks to persuade us.[br]And if you stop teaching rhetoric

0:19:33.769,0:19:36.769
you give more to people[br]the means to identify manipulations.

0:19:36.769,0:19:41.090
Currently we are in the process of[br]to remove all humanities

0:19:41.090,0:19:43.370
and the humanities[br]from everywhere: it's the only thing

0:19:43.370,0:19:47.590
that opens the mind. So what allows[br]scientist not to become a cardinal

0:19:47.590,0:19:54.409
and to remain a scientist is to have[br]had access to the humanities and art,

0:19:54.409,0:19:58.429
to sociology, to have travelled in[br]other countries to have had access

0:19:58.429,0:20:02.480
to other things than his field[br]and today we hyper-specialize

0:20:02.480,0:20:07.399
so many people in some kind of tunnel[br]that they become hyper-sharp in

0:20:07.399,0:20:10.669
their small areas of knowledge[br]but completely dumb about everything else

0:20:10.669,0:20:15.770
and therefore can no longer contrast the[br]know that they have

0:20:15.770,0:20:19.669
with a global apprehension of reality.[br]And when you mix it all together, well, it's

0:20:19.669,0:20:23.570
ideal conditions so that in fact[br]the population the citizens

0:20:23.570,0:20:29.409
and women citizens are deprived of all power[br]not only to act but even to react.

0:20:29.409,0:20:33.890
That is to say that at school they make these things.[br]from the school. That is to say that at school

0:20:33.890,0:20:39.289
until the baccalaureate the programs become[br]more and more stupid. It is not enough to

0:20:39.289,0:20:42.620
take a look at the 1923 bin[br]and try to do so

0:20:42.620,0:20:46.909
you will see the difference.[br]And then we actually specialize it

0:20:46.909,0:20:51.080
in a domain, and then there it remains[br]a specialist in his field, he can no longer see anything

0:20:51.080,0:20:53.899
of what's going on around it.[br]Yes and you see what I was passionate about

0:20:53.899,0:20:59.299
in the covid is that experts in the covid[br]have said, but the enormity

0:20:59.299,0:21:03.789
nonsense like me I wouldn't even have[br]Dare to think of saying such things.

0:21:03.789,0:21:10.159
So we can see that this expertise[br]by dint of shrinkage it loses even

0:21:10.159,0:21:14.929
its validity in the field in which it operates.[br]See? That is to say that basically

0:21:14.929,0:21:19.640
what makes expertise is to have an[br]solid knowledge and then a base that

0:21:19.640,0:21:23.510
allows to have counterpoints of[br]and guardrails and that

0:21:23.510,0:21:27.320
it allows you to think intelligently.[br]But when you isolate people in

0:21:27.320,0:21:32.120
hypers rutting and we make them do that.[br]all their life, that is to say that even

0:21:32.120,0:21:36.350
in their field of expertise[br]they lose the skill so I had some

0:21:36.350,0:21:39.860
17 examples. Doctors who we[br]explained here that everyone was going to

0:21:39.860,0:21:44.840
getting sick because no one had[br]never encountered the coronavirus.

0:21:44.840,0:21:47.899
Yes, but there are four others.[br]Today, we realize that there are

0:21:47.900,0:21:50.580
a cross-immunity that half of the people[br]a priori are already immune.

0:21:50.720,0:21:55.740
So, you see the super virologist from[br]the unity of Geneva that the President

0:21:55.740,0:21:58.410
macron has just hired to evaluate the[br]French policy

0:21:58.410,0:22:02.070
he said such a stupid thing[br]in the month of March.

0:22:02.070,0:22:07.559
And because he is an expert everyone[br]listened to this as the gospel word

0:22:07.559,0:22:10.470
and in the aftermath we said: "yes but the[br]science is complicated we can't

0:22:10.470,0:22:14.820
always know everything in advance".[br]But no one asks the question:

0:22:14.820,0:22:18.870
how is it that experts [br]supposed to be experts,

0:22:18.870,0:22:21.630
can say such nonsense?[br]And that for me is still the

0:22:21.630,0:22:28.169
question of substance. And then how[br]the world's number one expert

0:22:28.169,0:22:33.030
in infectious diseases, Didier Raoult,[br]is not listened to at all. Is treated

0:22:33.030,0:22:37.590
a charlatan? I don't get it.[br]What I have observed a lot

0:22:37.590,0:22:42.270
by frequenting scientists,[br]is that the best in their field

0:22:42.270,0:22:45.720
are extraordinary people [br]open-minded

0:22:45.720,0:22:51.960
humble, competent, they recognize their ignorance[br]they are relatively free

0:22:51.960,0:22:59.100
in relation to power games, well, Raoult[br]it is solid, it is very clever, compared to power.

0:22:59.100,0:23:02.850
We don't do it to him. But still it is that he[br]has preserved its integrity, in particular by

0:23:02.850,0:23:06.480
report to the pharmaceutical industry.[br]So the "all good" in their field

0:23:06.480,0:23:12.750
they are of this nature. And then after[br]you have the cohorts of followers

0:23:12.750,0:23:15.480
who are much less gifted who are[br]much less awesome that are

0:23:15.480,0:23:19.320
much less competent, but who they are at the[br]contrary boast

0:23:19.320,0:23:24.620
of their powers, knowledge and authority[br]and that gives the fanatics.

0:23:24.620,0:23:32.520
See? So how are we going to get out of this[br]of all this? Well, listen as well as you can

0:23:32.520,0:23:39.450
or not at all. How do you see yourself[br]the next three months?

0:23:39.450,0:23:43.130
Look, I don't know.[br]I used to say that I am a

0:23:43.130,0:23:47.539
joyful pessimist. So I'm not optimistic[br]because I have the impression that the critical mass

0:23:47.539,0:23:50.960
is not reached [br]that the locking of power systems

0:23:50.960,0:23:55.100
is such that no counter-power [br]cannot be opposed at this time,

0:23:55.100,0:23:57.860
already the media I teach you nothing[br]no longer play their role at all

0:23:57.860,0:24:00.500
of counter-power[br]and then you saw even when

0:24:00.500,0:24:05.870
guys like Raoult, like Peronne[br]or like me at my modest level

0:24:05.870,0:24:10.150
did everything we could[br]to alert... pure loss, you see.

0:24:10.150,0:24:14.690
At least in appearance.[br]So I have the impression that for the moment

0:24:14.690,0:24:18.860
it's irresistible.[br]That said, I have a question that I ask myself

0:24:18.860,0:24:23.659
it's deep down in themselves[br]in their inner conviction

0:24:23.659,0:24:30.409
what people really think when you know[br]they are less than 27 or 22%.

0:24:30.409,0:24:34.460
to trust the French government [br]on health issues today

0:24:34.460,0:24:39.610
there are more than 70% of people who know [br]that they can't be trusted.

0:24:40.000,0:24:45.020
So on the obligation of the mask[br]they seem to agree more than 60%.

0:24:45.020,0:24:48.770
but we don't really know[br]what it is about the conviction of each one.

0:24:48.770,0:24:52.010
Things are today divided by a[br]in such a way that there can be no

0:24:52.010,0:24:55.850
of gathering energies for[br]challenge the policy in place

0:24:55.850,0:24:58.940
but it is not excluded that at some point in time[br]given there are movements of revolt.

0:24:58.940,0:25:02.780
Either because people are tired of[br]Wear a mask that at first serves no purpose.

0:25:02.780,0:25:06.140
but it is also totally[br]suffocating and is like

0:25:06.140,0:25:11.510
a violation of bodily integrity.[br]And then I think that in the scenarios

0:25:11.510,0:25:16.370
possible futurologics is[br]likely the imposition of the vaccine

0:25:16.370,0:25:20.320
that may generate a reaction.[br]That's what they have in mind.

0:25:20.320,0:25:23.960
they will do everything they can[br]to get there. But I have the impression

0:25:23.960,0:25:27.110
as much as people can accept[br]being locked in their homes and wearing a mask

0:25:27.110,0:25:33.770
when it comes to making[br]inject something dangerous

0:25:33.770,0:25:36.950
because you don't make a vaccine in six months.[br]that's not true, with a technology

0:25:36.950,0:25:40.640
that we don't know and that can be[br]dangerous with consequences

0:25:40.640,0:25:46.549
from which the vaccine companies have already exempted themselves.[br]by an impunity that is assured to them

0:25:46.549,0:25:48.999
regardless of the consequences...

0:25:48.999,0:25:52.839
there we see that you still have a bomb.[br]And then I wouldn't be

0:25:52.839,0:25:56.829
perhaps moreover that the vaccine[br]will be completely harmless and that

0:25:56.829,0:26:01.329
and that it will work just fine. We don't know. [br]But I think that people at that time

0:26:01.329,0:26:06.909
when this taxation will be advanced[br]will have a defensive reaction.

0:26:06.909,0:26:11.069
Will it be enough[br]to thwart the plan? To be continued...

0:26:11.069,0:26:16.599
Often when talking about WHO[br]of GAVI's vaccines we think of Switzerland.

0:26:16.599,0:26:23.499
You are in Switzerland, how are things at home?[br]What is it? Where are you at?

0:26:23.499,0:26:27.729
to give news from Switzerland.[br]Wearing masks, vaccinations, politics?

0:26:27.729,0:26:31.119
If you want there was something[br]really interesting to observe

0:26:31.119,0:26:34.239
because God knows if I have been critical[br]French health responses

0:26:34.239,0:26:37.059
which in my opinion[br]so I totally agree with Peronne's analysis.

0:26:37.059,0:26:41.439
everything that could be done[br]of false and bad was done

0:26:41.439,0:26:45.069
and Switzerland has a peculiarity is that basically[br]it systematically copies France

0:26:45.069,0:26:49.839
but not as bad[br]so we confined it to a time when it was

0:26:49.839,0:26:54.639
probably not necessary but we have[br]semi-confined. Here, the mask is imposed

0:26:54.639,0:26:59.139
in some cantons not in others[br]but only in enclosed spaces

0:26:59.139,0:27:05.759
outdoors not. The latest developments[br]they talk about the objective is to achieve

0:27:05.759,0:27:09.399
80% of volunteers in the population[br]who agree to be vaccinated.

0:27:09.399,0:27:13.839
So you see its soft measures,[br]i.e.

0:27:13.839,0:27:17.109
that we are not in a logic[br]authoritarian as in France

0:27:17.109,0:27:21.849
or pyramidal or centralized but it is [br]not very different, but it is a little bit

0:27:21.849,0:27:25.749
less serious. And finally already as[br]that citizen is nice, because

0:27:25.749,0:27:29.769
I prefer this diet to the one you have[br]have suffered. And then on the other hand it has

0:27:29.769,0:27:34.539
the dreaded side effect[br]that it cuts the grass under the feet

0:27:34.539,0:27:39.819
of any reaction.[br]Since it's not that bad.

0:27:39.819,0:27:44.169
And then you know it[br]Switzerland is still the plate

0:27:44.169,0:27:48.449
the turntable of all the mafias[br]international: sports federations,

0:27:48.449,0:27:53.469
international organizations,[br]money laundering, all corruptions

0:27:53.469,0:27:59.259
finally converge here and therefore[br]people like Bill Gates are

0:27:59.259,0:28:03.370
"ass and shirt" with the government but as in all countries

0:28:03.370,0:28:06.639
but that's the rule of the game today.[br]and me what amazes me

0:28:06.639,0:28:11.009
is that it is not a problem.[br]Yeah that's what's crazy!

0:28:11.009,0:28:15.340
And wait, do you really think that Mr. Gates[br]has bad intentions?

0:28:15.340,0:28:17.799
But that's not the point.[br]The point is that a guy as rich as he is

0:28:17.799,0:28:22.049
does not have to dictate health policy[br]states wherever it comes from.

0:28:22.049,0:28:26.470
And now I think we're very entangled.[br]i.e. it is as if

0:28:26.470,0:28:29.730
we were told: "But you[br]suspect people of being dishonest? »

0:28:29.730,0:28:34.389
They may or may not be, I don't know.[br]But that's not the question.

0:28:34.389,0:28:38.080
The question is that of probity and of[br]transparency of governance systems.

0:28:38.080,0:28:45.990
And here we have an obviously major problem.[br]But nevertheless

0:28:45.990,0:28:54.100
80% of the volunteer population[br]that's a huge thing!

0:28:54.100,0:28:58.350
But there is no vaccination obligation in Switzerland. [br]for the moment.

0:28:58.350,0:29:03.360
And then how would I say once[br]you've scared people enough

0:29:03.360,0:29:08.740
you claim to have a safe vaccine[br]even if it is not, you see most of them

0:29:08.740,0:29:12.009
people are not going to ask questions[br]and we will say: "Phew, that was a close call.

0:29:12.009,0:29:16.809
we didn't die from that terrifying thing."[br]even if they are 40 years old and are not sick.

0:29:16.809,0:29:19.840
"and then I'm offered something

0:29:19.840,0:29:22.409
who is guaranteed to save my life [br]or to protect me

0:29:22.409,0:29:30.789
so I'm going. That's the kind of...[br]Yes I see. Which makes sense.

0:29:30.789,0:29:32.700
As long as they are afraid.

0:29:32.700,0:29:38.169
Today Didier Raoult has switched to[br]the French antennas on a media,

0:29:38.169,0:29:42.249
a long interview and he said:[br]"You traditional media,

0:29:42.249,0:29:45.820
you are overwhelmed by the media[br]alternatives including youtube "

0:29:45.820,0:29:50.100
and the reporter said "yes".[br]Is that a first sign?

0:29:50.100,0:29:55.210
Look, it's interesting but I think[br]that it also illustrates the reason

0:29:55.210,0:30:00.220
for which said alternative media[br]are being monitored

0:30:00.220,0:30:03.549
like never before and that we actually see[br]the massive return of measures

0:30:03.549,0:30:07.720
infringements of the freedom of opinion and expression[br]you know something about it

0:30:07.720,0:30:12.130
so it's true but after[br]it's a bit like a cybernetic loop

0:30:12.130,0:30:15.909
i.e. the more the media[br]betray their fundamental mission

0:30:15.909,0:30:21.370
and today it's just and terrible...[br]the more they lose people's trust

0:30:21.370,0:30:24.419
so the more people lose interest[br]look elsewhere

0:30:24.419,0:30:28.299
and then here it is at first[br]it came with a lot

0:30:28.299,0:30:34.330
criticism of the fact that what[br]circulating on the internet is not mediated

0:30:34.330,0:30:38.679
so the journalists are there to do[br]this work to discriminate to balance

0:30:38.679,0:30:42.220
points of view, but they don't make the points at all.[br]in any case. So it became

0:30:42.220,0:30:46.990
only tool species[br]of propaganda that no longer respect

0:30:46.990,0:30:53.049
the values the missions and the charter[br]ethics of the profession.

0:30:53.049,0:30:55.990
And then on the internet you can find everything[br]and anything of the things well done

0:30:55.990,0:31:01.809
intelligent things of things[br]excessive things. But finally

0:31:01.809,0:31:05.500
It's obvious that it's overwhelmed.[br]Look at the number of spectators you have.

0:31:05.500,0:31:13.350
My blogs have had nine million[br]readers, you know? "Le Monde" can go get dressed.

0:31:13.350,0:31:19.299
And I'm all the more proud of it because[br]from the beginning I told myself

0:31:19.299,0:31:24.820
I'm going to make papers that are complex[br]that addresses difficult aspects

0:31:24.820,0:31:30.490
which are extremely well documented I have given up[br]simplify anything

0:31:30.490,0:31:35.140
by taking the bet people are smart.[br]Then there are people who may disagree.

0:31:35.140,0:31:38.980
with my analyses or not appreciate [br]my way of writing but you

0:31:38.980,0:31:42.640
see what I mean,[br]provide quality content and in fact

0:31:42.640,0:31:46.120
that's what made it big and I think that[br]it's really... it reflects the fact that people

0:31:46.120,0:31:51.070
have a need a thirst a thirst to have[br]information that is solid and reliable

0:31:51.070,0:31:55.299
that is supported and then not supported. [br]in those silly journalistic shortcuts

0:31:55.299,0:31:58.450
that we see all the time.[br]If you have any doubts

0:31:58.450,0:32:03.190
on wearing the mask outdoors you are an "anti-mask".[br]This is absolute nonsense,

0:32:03.190,0:32:05.620
is the zero degree of reflection.

0:32:05.620,0:32:09.549
Yes that's right. And the media are there[br]in it unfortunately. They are in

0:32:09.549,0:32:12.970
this extreme caricature and I find[br]that people are turning away from it.

0:32:12.970,0:32:18.210
I even heard a great[br]professor say that the one who is

0:32:18.210,0:32:20.930
against the fact that there will be[br]a second wave

0:32:20.930,0:32:24.530
that one who is against the fact that[br]the mask protects are negationists.

0:32:24.530,0:32:28.610
How can we explain, how can we get there?[br]You did a great show

0:32:28.610,0:32:31.910
what to say to someone[br]who calls you a schemer, but me...

0:32:31.910,0:32:35.060
there's always a question[br]that I didn't understand: what does it mean to be a conspirator?

0:32:35.060,0:32:43.220
If they call you a schemer,[br]What are you plotting?

0:32:43.220,0:32:46.220
For me there is a little[br]two levels to your answer.

0:32:46.220,0:32:53.120
First of all, there are conspiracies.[br]There are plots all the time.

0:32:53.120,0:32:57.590
You know the adage: there are two positions to avoid: believing that everything is a conspiracy.

0:32:57.590,0:33:00.890
and to believe that nothing is conspiracy. So there are always plots.

0:33:00.890,0:33:05.390
There are bribes for the attribution[br]from the olympic games there are wars

0:33:05.390,0:33:08.900
that are triggered on bases[br]false only to be able to

0:33:08.900,0:33:14.360
to go and steal the oil at last there is[br]shenanigans in a lot of places and therefore

0:33:14.360,0:33:21.440
For me, the first answer is to be "aware".[br]of this reality and then it does not hide it.

0:33:21.440,0:33:26.860
and therefore ask questions.[br]And then there's another conspiracy

0:33:26.860,0:33:30.950
so always be careful[br]not to over-psychologize or psychiatrize

0:33:30.950,0:33:36.260
but the fact remains that[br]the human mind is inhabited by

0:33:36.260,0:33:40.640
a natural curiosity and that[br]the most difficult thing for him is to be

0:33:40.640,0:33:43.670
in inconsistencies that are not[br]understandable on the basis of what we are told.

0:33:43.670,0:33:48.650
And one of the ways to be comforted[br]or to find comfort is

0:33:48.650,0:33:53.900
to imagine things that do not exist[br]but which allow to give meaning

0:33:53.900,0:33:58.460
to these elements of reality. And this is[br]the real conspiracy drift. You see what

0:33:58.460,0:34:02.180
I mean? It's a way to[br]to put back consistency is wrong.

0:34:02.180,0:34:06.890
Because coherence is a[br]basic neurological needs.

0:34:06.890,0:34:11.690
And then, of course, we get into things[br]who become delusional at some point.

0:34:11.690,0:34:16.040
But what is complicated in this case[br]is that in fact negationism

0:34:16.040,0:34:20.960
he is on the side of those who[br]deny the possibility of any problems

0:34:20.960,0:34:24.380
of any scheming or any[br]intentionality. Because it is not true

0:34:24.380,0:34:28.610
it's like that nowhere in life.[br]So they turn the thing around

0:34:28.610,0:34:30.850
but these reversals[br]it is at the same time very Orwelian

0:34:30.850,0:34:35.200
and it's very perverse. See? When[br]the government explains to you that we lock up

0:34:35.200,0:34:38.560
the elderly and in the EHPAD[br]to protect them and then in fact

0:34:38.560,0:34:41.500
it's a hecatomb, it's perverse.[br]If you want to protect

0:34:41.500,0:34:44.220
old people, you don't do that.[br]You do otherwise.

0:34:44.220,0:34:48.670
So we are permanently in these[br]reversals and then after "conspiracy"...

0:34:48.670,0:34:51.400
well, it's just like any other[br]label if I call you a "leftist".

0:34:51.400,0:34:58.080
or "Trumpeter", all this means that[br]by the label that I stick on you

0:34:58.080,0:35:01.840
I no longer need to be interested in this[br]you say, I disqualified you right away.

0:35:01.840,0:35:06.370
And that's where, you know, I did[br]a small "tag" on social networks

0:35:06.370,0:35:12.580
"neither sheep nor schemers,[br]yes to debate, no to insult".

0:35:12.580,0:35:15.370
Someone who is convinced that the port[br]of the outdoor mask can be useful,

0:35:15.370,0:35:18.460
I am open to discuss with her.

0:35:18.460,0:35:21.430
I don't share this conviction[br]but maybe she knows things

0:35:21.430,0:35:24.630
that I don't know and that with his contact I will[br]be able to think things differently

0:35:24.630,0:35:28.540
maybe the other way around I'll be able to say:[br]"But listen, look at Holland

0:35:28.540,0:35:32.110
and in Scandinavia do not do it, they do not have[br]no more problems than us so

0:35:32.110,0:35:35.560
for me it is rather the proof that [br]it is a measure that is not necessary

0:35:35.560,0:35:39.460
but at least there is a dialogue that is possible[br]and the real dialogue is when

0:35:39.460,0:35:44.080
you listen to what the other has to say.[br]Processes like what you describe

0:35:44.080,0:35:47.350
but that we see systematized today [br]in the media and politics

0:35:47.350,0:35:52.480
it's really a way to[br]close the debate before it is even open

0:35:52.480,0:35:58.000
and it scares me because[br]historically it is on this basis

0:35:58.000,0:36:02.500
that all the worst excesses have[br]always been built. Absolutely.

0:36:02.500,0:36:06.760
It is the first step towards[br]dictatorships this. Yes, that's the fact

0:36:06.760,0:36:11.350
not to be able to stand the difference[br]not to tolerate divergent points of view

0:36:11.350,0:36:16.870
to immediately dirty the person you have in your home.[br]in front of you. And I think you've been there.

0:36:16.870,0:36:26.620
I too have 55 brooms, not born of the last rain,[br]I've never had such violent attacks.

0:36:26.620,0:36:31.300
as malevolent and as twisted[br]that this time. And we felt that there was

0:36:31.300,0:36:35.350
a kind of rage, it was necessary at all costs[br]demolish the man because

0:36:35.350,0:36:41.830
his message was unbearable.[br]And now we are no longer in civility.

0:36:41.830,0:36:45.340
We are no longer in respect[br]we are no longer in humanity.

0:36:45.340,0:36:50.260
Yes, and many people tell me that[br]that is to say that many doctors

0:36:50.260,0:36:52.930
many lawyers[br]have not been used to

0:36:52.930,0:36:56.380
to this violence.[br]And this violence they have been

0:36:56.380,0:37:00.640
all very shocked.[br]Personally I am used to it because

0:37:00.640,0:37:04.750
the de-bunkers I have on my back[br]for years and the funny thing is

0:37:04.750,0:37:09.460
is that when they called me they started[br]always with this sentence: "I am not a

0:37:09.460,0:37:15.280
conspirator" to apologize you already see[br]what they were going to tell me

0:37:15.280,0:37:18.190
because they found that things[br]did not go into all this management

0:37:18.190,0:37:24.070
of the crisis and the epidemic.[br]But some have let go because

0:37:24.070,0:37:28.150
precisely it is of an unheard-of violence.[br]But really as you say it is

0:37:28.150,0:37:31.360
something the people who listen to us[br]can't understand because they

0:37:31.360,0:37:35.650
have never experienced this.[br]Yes, it's a first alarm.

0:37:35.650,0:37:38.470
I had already met some perverts[br]narcissistic on my personal journey

0:37:38.470,0:37:43.030
so I knew from experience

0:37:43.030,0:37:47.350
this extreme malevolence from someone[br]who seeks to destroy you at all costs

0:37:47.350,0:37:50.860
without any consideration for his humanity.[br]So I had some personal landmarks

0:37:50.860,0:37:55.300
if you want. But what I found most[br]already struck then already some of these

0:37:55.300,0:37:59.050
attacks as far as I'm concerned[br]I'm sure they come from the industry.

0:37:59.050,0:38:03.070
they have been sponsored we know[br]that there are boxes that do that.

0:38:03.070,0:38:06.550
who will search your past on the internet[br]and then inquire

0:38:06.550,0:38:10.240
to be able to get dirty so[br]I've had things done very well

0:38:10.240,0:38:16.750
it was very well documented but[br]always turned in the direction

0:38:16.750,0:38:19.270
to prove what a bad guy I am[br]and someone who doesn't know his field.

0:38:19.270,0:38:21.490
while I am a very good expert,

0:38:21.490,0:38:26.470
sorry to have to call him back,[br]but really with this intention. That being said

0:38:26.470,0:38:30.430
that struck me the most in the experience,[br]is the number of relays of this malevolence

0:38:30.430,0:38:34.780
I know people who have told me...[br]but I stopped reading

0:38:34.780,0:38:39.460
at the end of two paragraphs, it's[br]was nauseated. It was so mean.

0:38:39.460,0:38:42.740
See?[br]And then after me I saw a lot of people.

0:38:42.740,0:38:46.490
including people I know in[br]the health systems of people who have

0:38:46.490,0:38:50.089
positions of power, people with[br]who I thought was in a good relationship

0:38:50.089,0:38:56.000
mutual esteem, people with whom[br]I worked on projects and suddenly, all of a sudden

0:38:56.000,0:39:00.050
relayed "posts" but from a[br]extreme malevolence, saying that I was

0:39:00.050,0:39:05.000
an impostor, a crook, but you see some[br]hyper serious stuff. And all of a sudden

0:39:05.000,0:39:11.270
you have a small notable of institutions "hop"[br]which sends it to its network. And then

0:39:11.270,0:39:16.040
I know enough about human psychology[br]to think

0:39:16.040,0:39:20.630
that they must be convinced of the usefulness[br]to do it you see. They didn't say:

0:39:20.630,0:39:27.349
We're going to hurt Jean-Dominique, we'll be happy.[br]There is something in them

0:39:27.349,0:39:31.460
who must have adhered to this manipulation.[br]But afterwards I find it breathtaking

0:39:31.460,0:39:35.359
that the editor of a medical journal[br]a former hospital director

0:39:35.359,0:39:41.510
a person in charge of a health system [br]monstrosities post about me

0:39:41.510,0:39:47.420
when they know me and they know who I am[br]And there, the collective process

0:39:47.420,0:39:52.910
of stoning where finally everyone throws[br]his stone. It's like mobbing

0:39:52.910,0:39:57.140
in schoolyards :[br]you get the creep who spots a guy

0:39:57.140,0:40:01.579
that does not belong to him it goes against, then afterwards[br]he's rounding everybody up so that everyone's gonna fuck up

0:40:01.579,0:40:05.150
his punch. And that's what[br]worries me a little bit, so fine,

0:40:05.150,0:40:08.680
again I am happily[br]quite philosophical at this stage of my life

0:40:08.680,0:40:12.710
and sufficiently aware when to[br]what motivates the values that are mine

0:40:12.710,0:40:16.880
but I find that there is something[br]this is what happens to young people who

0:40:16.880,0:40:20.150
commit suicide in order to be taken to task[br]on social networks, you know?

0:40:20.150,0:40:23.990
It is this kind of mechanism. And what strikes me[br]is that there is still no

0:40:23.990,0:40:27.589
seems to be an immunity in the collective[br]compared to that. That is to say

0:40:27.589,0:40:30.410
that the responsibility of each[br]a human being worthy of the name

0:40:30.410,0:40:34.640
in the face of attacks of this nature[br]is to say stop, I'm not participating in this.

0:40:34.640,0:40:37.910
We can agree or disagree with Mr. Trotta.[br]we can agree or disagree

0:40:37.910,0:40:42.470
with Mr. Michel, but I don't participate[br]to something of this nature. And what I saw

0:40:42.470,0:40:46.400
on the contrary, it's a bit as if[br]a lot of Mr. and Mrs. everyone

0:40:46.400,0:40:50.030
were completely embarking on[br]this proposal for a mimetic revival.

0:40:50.030,0:40:54.380
But then we know[br]when there are times of great

0:40:54.380,0:40:58.850
collective tension of great stress[br]there are often outlets for violence

0:40:58.850,0:41:02.720
where we take a poor guy who's passing by for a ride.[br]or who had the misfortune to dare to open his mouth

0:41:02.720,0:41:05.750
then all the others keep quiet[br]and that there is a rampage

0:41:05.750,0:41:10.670
it's lynching, you know. Here I am[br]often read about it on social networks.

0:41:10.670,0:41:15.550
This is the first time I've seen it live. [br]It feels funny. And at the same time...

0:41:15.550,0:41:20.000
Many doctors have told me:[br]"I thought I had friends

0:41:20.000,0:41:22.100
thought they had even[br]very close friends

0:41:22.100,0:41:26.570
I thought I was working with confidence[br]and because I had a different attitude

0:41:26.570,0:41:30.410
a different reasoning from them[br]they lynched me. Overnight.

0:41:30.410,0:41:34.700
It was so violent[br]that I had been shocked. Psychologically shocked. »

0:41:34.700,0:41:39.590
I call it a little bit the virus of truth.[br]It's where you discover your real friends.

0:41:39.590,0:41:46.880
And this is incredible.

0:41:46.880,0:41:51.770
Have you been able to see in foreign countries,[br]and you've been around the world a little bit.

0:41:51.770,0:41:59.210
models that still have you[br]a little bit given back a little hope?

0:41:59.210,0:42:02.570
Already here it gave me hope, I don't know. [br]what it is for you, but me

0:42:02.570,0:42:05.720
I received, but literally,[br]thousands of messages of support

0:42:05.720,0:42:12.830
but of a generosity! People but[br]who write 4, 5, 6, 7 paragraphs where they talk about themselves.

0:42:12.830,0:42:18.230
Which are painted in such goodness[br]to say, "Thank you so much for doing what you do! »

0:42:18.230,0:42:21.410
You know me at the beginning my intention

0:42:21.410,0:42:24.500
it was very sanito-genetic.[br]I said to myself: but it's so anxiety-provoking,

0:42:24.500,0:42:29.120
it's so traumatic,[br]that it is absolutely necessary to give

0:42:29.120,0:42:31.580
response elements[br]reassuring to people for

0:42:31.580,0:42:34.760
that they can say, "Yes, I have to be careful,[br]but no reason to panic. »

0:42:34.760,0:42:38.390
And I've had, but literally, thousands[br]of messages from people who said to me:

0:42:38.390,0:42:41.480
"But when I read you,[br]It was a breath of fresh air,

0:42:41.480,0:42:45.800
it has been a lifeline in the[br]ambient delirium. How good it made me feel! »

0:42:45.800,0:42:50.540
And many of them said to me:[br]"You put words to what I knew to be right

0:42:50.540,0:42:55.760
but I didn't have[br]of vocabulary to say. »

0:42:55.760,0:42:58.520
And that is perversity.[br]It's when you make an entire population believe

0:42:58.520,0:43:02.130
that she is wrong.[br]So what a great sense of what's going on.

0:43:02.130,0:43:05.609
So this intention, me it is also [br]what did I agree to?

0:43:05.609,0:43:09.480
to take hits and put me[br]forward and suffer consequences.

0:43:09.480,0:43:13.730
But the generosity of the people,[br]You see, she's so touching,

0:43:13.730,0:43:20.549
she is so beautiful.[br]And then afterwards, the...

0:43:20.549,0:43:24.869
It also means that if you hadn't been there[br]if I hadn't been there so full

0:43:24.869,0:43:28.650
thousands of others like us,[br]had not been there, these people would be today

0:43:28.650,0:43:35.160
in a rather strong psychological distress.[br]Yes. And you probably know

0:43:35.160,0:43:39.960
that the outlook is very bleak in this area.[br]That is to say that there is already a wave

0:43:39.960,0:43:42.420
in psychiatry, which in fact,[br]is the real second wave.

0:43:42.420,0:43:47.339
And then of people who do not suffer[br]of classic psychiatric illnesses.

0:43:47.339,0:43:51.030
It's not bipolar people[br]or psychotics who all of a sudden

0:43:51.030,0:43:54.150
have an outbreak because of the epidemic.[br]These are people who were not suffering from anything.

0:43:54.150,0:43:58.559
beforehand and which are going into a spin,[br]so much the treatment, especially media treatment,

0:43:58.559,0:44:04.470
was violent. And you see a friend[br]professor of neuromarketing

0:44:04.470,0:44:08.279
which studies the effects on the brain of[br]advertising messages, was telling me

0:44:08.279,0:44:13.859
that they could not believe they were imagining[br]the effect on who this part is

0:44:13.859,0:44:18.630
of the brain which is in permanent vigilance[br]to see if there is any danger or not.

0:44:18.630,0:44:22.260
Have you ever been at home, has there been a presence[br]even from a relative, but you didn't know

0:44:22.260,0:44:24.450
that he was there. Then all of a sudden[br]you make a monster jump.

0:44:24.450,0:44:30.660
"You scared me! " It's the amygdala.[br]And this amygdala is bludgeoned.

0:44:30.660,0:44:35.910
for months and months and months,[br]and in a way but totally delirious!

0:44:35.910,0:44:40.980
And I said very early on, if we were doing[br]the same hype, with for example

0:44:40.980,0:44:45.109
heart attacks :[br]"Today, 220 heart attacks in France!

0:44:45.109,0:44:50.010
Today 10% more heart attacks! »[br]After three weeks everyone

0:44:50.010,0:44:52.920
is afraid of having a heart attack and then everything[br]the world becomes hypochondriac.

0:44:52.920,0:44:57.089
Everything knows what I mean. You've really got a bludgeon[br]panic. Again a second time

0:44:57.089,0:44:59.430
I tried to oppose it,[br]obviously in pure loss...

0:44:59.430,0:45:03.359
And that of course it's going to have[br]sustainable impacts. We can see that suicide rates

0:45:03.359,0:45:07.289
explode, the precariousness, because there again, the precariousness[br]the effect on the economy will be devastating.

0:45:07.289,0:45:12.660
And so we are in the process of[br]to create a disaster.

0:45:12.660,0:45:15.960
I used as a metaphor at the very beginning:[br]it's like bombing the cities

0:45:15.960,0:45:21.090
to fight against malaria.[br]Now we go on except that there is

0:45:21.090,0:45:26.700
even more mosquitoes.[br]We continue to bomb! And I say to myself:

0:45:26.700,0:45:31.490
but what conscience do the rulers have[br]to make decisions that are

0:45:31.490,0:45:36.210
so traumatic without even asking the question?![br]When you see kids wearing masks

0:45:36.210,0:45:40.620
at school what's it going to do[br]on their psyche, on their security needs,

0:45:40.620,0:45:44.540
of trust?[br]We are creating monstrous damage

0:45:44.540,0:45:50.160
for something that's between the 9th[br]and the 14th most serious epidemic

0:45:50.160,0:45:57.510
and which has been extinct since May.[br]There is no more epidemic. Yes, there is. It is terrible.

0:45:57.510,0:46:05.630
In Switzerland kids will have to carry the mask back?[br]Yes, above 12 years old.

0:46:06.020,0:46:13.300
This is so absurd.[br]You know, I've published a text by a psychiatrist who specializes

0:46:13.460,0:46:17.220
in the delirious puffs.[br]There are examples in the story

0:46:17.220,0:46:24.480
notably in Orleans in 1968. And tells him we are[br]in a collective delirium.

0:46:24.480,0:46:29.130
That is to say that school principals[br]are so panicked at the thought

0:46:29.130,0:46:32.760
that a child can get sick and infect[br]an elderly person and then dies

0:46:32.760,0:46:37.500
and then let it be his fault as a school principal[br]we block, everything is locked,

0:46:37.500,0:46:43.320
we secure everything, but in a deadly way [br]really in a collective delirium,

0:46:43.320,0:46:46.800
but I'm really thinking about the meaning[br]psychiatric term. It is in any case

0:46:46.800,0:46:53.010
what this psychiatrist says.[br]In addition, we in France, we had for two months,

0:46:53.010,0:46:57.990
almost three months, one non-access [br]to the hospital for everything that is

0:46:57.990,0:47:00.330
heart attack, stroke,[br]treatment of cancers...

0:47:00.330,0:47:03.690
Here again it is a second wave quite[br]important.

0:47:03.690,0:47:08.700
In addition to psychiatry.[br]I wondered about containment,

0:47:08.700,0:47:13.140
Because when you watch[br]epidemiology "textbooks",

0:47:13.140,0:47:16.980
None of them recommend containment.[br]like what we've been through. None.

0:47:16.980,0:47:20.070
It's not in the recommendations.[br]They say that it may be useful

0:47:20.070,0:47:25.360
at the very beginning of the epidemic for[br]nip the epidemic in the bud,

0:47:25.360,0:47:28.780
but once the virus has spread a little bit,[br]it's worse than anything

0:47:28.780,0:47:32.680
because it brings together contagious people[br]with not contagious people etc...

0:47:32.680,0:47:38.050
So I really tried to see what[br]research said and the latest studies

0:47:38.050,0:47:42.730
that went out in England show that[br]two thirds of the deaths during

0:47:42.730,0:47:49.120
containment did not die from the covid.[br]They died from the causes you say.

0:47:49.120,0:47:50.980
And that the consequences will be long[br]term.

0:47:50.980,0:47:55.330
So it's absolutely true and here it is[br]it's this drama we've fallen into.

0:47:55.330,0:47:59.640
To take precautions[br]we caused the damage is infinitely worse.

0:47:59.640,0:48:03.880
And with governors[br]that have so much toppled over

0:48:03.880,0:48:06.880
in denial and their belief systems, [br]that even today they are

0:48:06.880,0:48:14.110
totally incapable of questioning themselves,[br]to consider that maybe it was

0:48:14.110,0:48:18.370
not the right thing to do and therefore against all odds,[br]continue to assert the things we know

0:48:18.370,0:48:22.690
today that they are false.[br]You think they're so dumb that they're not

0:48:22.690,0:48:27.610
being aware of it, that they were wrong?[br]Then no,

0:48:27.610,0:48:33.210
I think that... already there was a headline in the newspaper,[br]at a given time :

0:48:33.210,0:48:37.540
"Those who don't want to wear[br]masks are often

0:48:37.540,0:48:42.250
narcissistic or psychopathic". You remember the trick.[br]I replied on social networks:

0:48:42.250,0:48:45.190
"Wait, guys, wait, narcissists...[br]and psychopaths,

0:48:45.190,0:48:49.090
in general they are found in[br]positions of power, to frighten others

0:48:49.090,0:48:53.650
and to enjoy the power they have.[br]taken to terrorize the population. »

0:48:53.650,0:48:57.100
Not to be confused. So I think a part[br]people in power who are sociopaths.

0:48:57.100,0:49:02.350
And that unfortunately we have[br]channels of accession to power

0:49:02.350,0:49:05.740
that favour problematic profiles.

0:49:05.740,0:49:11.860
This is a pretty clear statement.[br]Then the other thing, I see it here because

0:49:11.860,0:49:16.840
our politicians in Geneva[br]they're not bad guys.

0:49:16.840,0:49:22.780
They are people of good will, but what I observe is,[br]it's when you made a mistake

0:49:22.780,0:49:28.240
for a long time, the psychological cost[br]to realize that you made a mistake

0:49:28.240,0:49:33.280
is such, that there is this process of denial which[br]is well known to psychologists,

0:49:33.280,0:49:37.180
that is being put in place and that make[br]against all odds, they continue to assert

0:49:37.180,0:49:41.860
that this is the way it is, but almost in good faith.[br]They convinced themselves.

0:49:41.860,0:49:46.810
That's crazy.[br]The Minister of Health in Geneva,

0:49:46.810,0:49:51.850
he held an extraordinary reasoning[br]on social networks by saying :

0:49:51.850,0:49:54.790
"You don't realize, it's because we have[br]taken the steps we have taken

0:49:54.790,0:50:02.410
in March/April that today there are no more[br]of sick people. And those who criticized us

0:50:02.410,0:50:06.040
already in March/April to take[br]measures taken continue to us

0:50:06.040,0:50:12.100
criticize to maintain the measures then[br]that if we got them up, it'd be like, you know, it'd be like...

0:50:12.100,0:50:17.400
as in March and April.[br]You see, this is completely wrong as a result.

0:50:17.400,0:50:21.250
In Sweden they have not confined the epidemic.[br]is extinguished.

0:50:21.250,0:50:27.190
So nowhere does it go back to the[br]conviction in which is this type:

0:50:27.190,0:50:30.370
"if we have arrived at the result in which we have[br]is today it's because of what we've done "

0:50:30.370,0:50:36.040
it's totally fallacious. It is not true.[br]That's not the reason. But he is

0:50:36.040,0:50:39.040
so convinced and I think that[br]would be so costly on a personal level

0:50:39.040,0:50:43.410
to open our eyes to the fact that[br]no, everything he imposed from a to z

0:50:43.410,0:50:48.180
was essentially unnecessary,[br]that there really is a process

0:50:48.180,0:50:54.130
basic psychological issues that concern us[br]all, which is denial.

0:50:54.130,0:50:59.590
Yes, that's right, they are in denial. [br]And how do you see it,

0:50:59.590,0:51:02.140
you wanted to talk about international politics,[br]how you see a little bit,

0:51:02.140,0:51:06.790
international politics by[br]to this covid. Do you see

0:51:06.790,0:51:11.860
countries that you feel have done well[br]choices and others that are really

0:51:11.860,0:51:18.160
vectors of corruption[br]Listen to the corruption it is everywhere and then

0:51:18.160,0:51:21.220
systemic corruption in particular.[br]It is the former Minister of Health of Ecuador

0:51:21.220,0:51:24.010
who did a paper in the[br]Lancet to talk about corruption

0:51:24.010,0:51:30.370
who is who intrinsically.[br]The abuse of language that we all commit

0:51:30.370,0:51:34.510
is to talk about health policy.[br]We don't have a health policy.

0:51:34.510,0:51:39.880
We have a disease industry. It's not at all the same.[br]In the West today 80% of diseases

0:51:39.880,0:51:44.260
are chronic. They are diseases of [br]civilization that would be avoidable.

0:51:44.260,0:51:48.100
It is the product of our food,

0:51:48.100,0:51:52.560
pollution, stress, lack[br]of movement, lack of sleep.

0:51:52.560,0:51:58.810
So we could reduce by 80% the[br]diseases from which the population suffers

0:51:58.810,0:52:02.260
if it was protected against the factors[br]of risk and in fact we do nothing,

0:52:02.260,0:52:08.050
or next to nothing. It causes this damage[br]and then we have a medicine

0:52:08.050,0:52:13.090
very specialized, very expensive that comes[br]repair people who are damaged but for whom

0:52:13.090,0:52:15.730
nothing was done at the collective level[br]to avoid damage.

0:52:15.730,0:52:21.280
So that's not a health policy.[br]it is an economy of disease.

0:52:21.280,0:52:25.240
From this point of view, the logic is the same,[br]worldwide, because they have the same interests

0:52:25.240,0:52:30.130
that configures it. After what has been observed[br]fun and interesting in this epidemic.

0:52:30.130,0:52:34.000
is that poor countries have[br]much better, because they reacted much better, because they have

0:52:34.000,0:52:38.380
the habit of dealing with not much,[br]because in many countries

0:52:38.380,0:52:41.080
chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine[br]they know it very well,

0:52:41.080,0:52:45.340
they eat it like smarties, in any case.[br]in some regions they know

0:52:45.340,0:52:47.980
that it is not dangerous,[br]and above all, they are not interesting markets.

0:52:47.980,0:52:52.210
for pharmas. So to panic[br]the United States France and

0:52:52.210,0:53:00.130
Switzerland is a guaranteed jackpot.[br]Panic in Senegal, or... you know...

0:53:00.130,0:53:03.790
There, there was this reversal and Raoult[br]said it early on. But I find

0:53:03.790,0:53:08.080
that they gave us lessons[br]pragmatism and intelligence

0:53:08.080,0:53:13.240
but with a slightly disturbing perspective,[br]which is the decay of the West.

0:53:13.240,0:53:18.850
If today we are so incapacitated[br]to evaluate the seriousness of a phenomenon

0:53:18.850,0:53:22.900
to take answers[br]pragmatic and efficient

0:53:22.900,0:53:26.110
and to recognize when, along the way[br]we made some bad decisions.

0:53:26.110,0:53:33.280
It's just that we're ripe for the EHPAD.[br]Public policies

0:53:33.280,0:53:36.540
in the West are just[br]but completely senile.

0:53:36.540,0:53:41.500
It is clear. And you as a scientist[br]still recognized,

0:53:41.500,0:53:44.830
were you still invited[br]on TV sets

0:53:44.830,0:53:51.890
on mainstream radio stations in Switzerland? [br]In France a lot. The French have been very nice.

0:53:51.890,0:53:56.750
Just one or two who have been around me[br]who are science journalists

0:53:56.750,0:54:01.250
so very close to the... [br]but the French was very nice

0:54:01.250,0:54:08.690
notably André Bercoff, but in Switzerland[br]even though I had to be invited

0:54:08.690,0:54:15.110
about 50 times on national television[br]between 2000 and 2017,

0:54:15.110,0:54:18.890
to talk about anything and everything[br]but that's what an anthropologist does:

0:54:18.890,0:54:22.070
I was not made to talk about the death of the pope.[br]John Paul II, and of the staging

0:54:22.070,0:54:26.090
of the Catholic Church...[br]it's great... Sancto subito,

0:54:26.090,0:54:31.700
Sancto subito... fuck, guys, they're[br]had been paid, prepared signs...

0:54:31.700,0:54:35.990
An anthropologist, he decodes that.[br]On the other hand, when it's my field of expertise,

0:54:35.990,0:54:40.220
I have been, but boycotted, not according to the[br]boycotting but radio and television

0:54:40.220,0:54:45.590
began to say: "Yeah, we don't know[br]where this Mr. Michel comes from,

0:54:45.590,0:54:50.030
it is dubious,[br]we're going to check his CV, we feel like

0:54:50.030,0:54:53.450
he doesn't know what he's talking about,[br]finally you see a demolition company...

0:54:53.450,0:54:59.690
But who was up to the fact[br]to tell lies about me

0:54:59.690,0:55:03.920
at prime time.[br]In this case in my exchanges

0:55:03.920,0:55:06.800
with an editor in chief I had done[br]screenshots of the mails we got

0:55:06.800,0:55:11.390
which allowed me on my blog to say[br]but here's what the guy said

0:55:11.390,0:55:14.090
on air[br]and this is the reality of our exchange.

0:55:14.090,0:55:18.350
It doesn't shock you that the editor-in-chief[br]of a so-called prestigious daily newspaper

0:55:18.350,0:55:21.970
allows himself to lie only[br]to smear someone's reputation?

0:55:21.970,0:55:27.410
So no, I was confronted with something[br]very particular and which has been systematic.

0:55:27.410,0:55:35.030
Ah, it's incredible![br]Has he made a reaction to your blog?

0:55:35.030,0:55:40.640
No, but I filed a complaint with the[br]Swiss press council so in my opinion

0:55:40.640,0:55:43.880
it is badly crossed out. I really could[br]document the fact that he said

0:55:43.880,0:55:48.590
on the air something wrong[br]with the obvious intention of harming me

0:55:48.590,0:55:51.950
and to make listeners believe[br]that I was someone who needed above all

0:55:51.950,0:55:55.940
not listen. But that's crazy. It's just[br]unbelievable. It's really unbelievable.

0:55:55.940,0:55:59.450
Yes, but that's the world today you're in.[br]see. Me, that's where I hallucinate.

0:55:59.450,0:56:02.030
You know, I was 18 years old[br]I've been to the United States,

0:56:02.030,0:56:05.090
I saw a lot of stuff I didn't know about[br]films that were

0:56:05.090,0:56:09.440
cut four times for advertising, or the[br]same pub that was hammered all along.

0:56:09.440,0:56:13.490
of a sporting event or program.[br]I was thinking, thank God that's never going to happen.

0:56:13.490,0:56:18.340
at home, you see. And then[br]Twenty-five years later, we were there.

0:56:18.340,0:56:22.070
So unfortunately this is today's world.[br]it's a world that looks like

0:56:22.070,0:56:25.760
to the advertising clip of the[br]American presidential campaign

0:56:25.760,0:56:29.660
or no matter what you say the important thing is[br]you're trying to smear your opponent

0:56:29.660,0:56:33.770
and then journalists then who[br]in any case in Switzerland have totally

0:56:33.770,0:56:38.510
lost sight of the balance of points[br]of sight and the duty of truth in which they are

0:56:38.510,0:56:41.420
to reflect things in a way[br]approximately in line with reality.

0:56:41.420,0:56:44.750
So that's the world today.

0:56:44.750,0:56:50.150
And it is the same in the German-speaking part of Switzerland and in[br]Italian-speaking Switzerland ? Yes, if you want, it's

0:56:50.150,0:56:55.330
a little bit different because Switzerland[br]has a tradition of conformity, extreme.

0:56:55.330,0:57:00.050
In France you love to bite your nose off[br]on the TV sets, everyone's screaming,

0:57:00.050,0:57:03.530
it gesticulates, nobody listens to anybody

0:57:03.530,0:57:08.900
and then that's a good debate.[br]In Switzerland, it is above all nothing to say

0:57:08.900,0:57:12.440
that could offend anyone,[br]and that could disturb anyone.

0:57:12.440,0:57:16.160
And anyone who creates a breach of the rule[br]makes himself badly seen by everyone.

0:57:16.160,0:57:20.900
So obviously I went quite hard[br]you see, but by telling me the subject

0:57:20.900,0:57:23.990
is so important, the stakes[br]are so great and above all the risks

0:57:23.990,0:57:28.670
that we make the population run with[br]such bad management are such

0:57:28.670,0:57:32.900
that I have a duty to open my mouth.[br]So then I hit myself head-on

0:57:32.900,0:57:39.920
to the fact that criticizing the authorities :[br]"But Mr. Trotta, you don't think about it! »

0:57:39.920,0:57:44.330
In the end it is infantilism,[br]but which takes another form.

0:57:44.330,0:57:48.890
The first interview you did,[br]I had to pinch myself twice: he is

0:57:48.890,0:57:54.610
Switzerland! Not possible.[br]You must have shocked there in the country.

0:57:54.610,0:57:59.630
That's funny of course it was shocking.[br]And then I have the pleasure

0:57:59.630,0:58:03.290
a little bit of pride, I apologize,[br]but to see that four months

0:58:03.290,0:58:07.730
later all I said was[br]right. So what I found

0:58:07.730,0:58:11.660
interesting, so of course I went quite frankly.[br]and that, my faith, is a risk I took.

0:58:11.660,0:58:14.420
but that it is mainly the fact

0:58:14.420,0:58:19.520
for saying true things that shocked.[br]As for Raoult

0:58:19.520,0:58:23.869
as for Peronne,[br]and in the hundreds of emails I have received

0:58:23.869,0:58:30.770
of doctors, a significant number of[br]said to me: "we don't dare to say

0:58:30.770,0:58:35.119
what we think for fear of the consequences. »[br]And I ask the question:

0:58:35.119,0:58:39.380
what is a democracy[br]in which doctors dare not say

0:58:39.380,0:58:42.319
what they are convinced of[br]in their soul and conscience.

0:58:42.319,0:58:47.540
In the freedom of opinion,[br]someone may have a different opinion.

0:58:47.540,0:58:50.329
But what is a system[br]where people are terrorized?

0:58:50.329,0:58:56.480
That's it. And what is a system[br]or doctors are censored?

0:58:56.480,0:59:02.240
Or punished for treating people or persecuted, etc...[br]And then I did

0:59:02.240,0:59:06.670
published on my blog a lot of letters[br]which I have called "resistant doctors".

0:59:06.670,0:59:11.150
A woman doctor in Paris who fought[br]but like a lioness

0:59:11.150,0:59:16.940
so that one of those 85-year-old patients[br]be cared for when they had decided

0:59:16.940,0:59:22.099
not to treat her, to let her die,[br]she struggled for four hours with the head doctor,

0:59:22.099,0:59:30.200
she has managed to get her way, and now,[br]she brings joy to her children and grandchildren.

0:59:30.200,0:59:34.010
I had to fight against my government[br]to find hydroxydoroquine

0:59:34.010,0:59:37.670
because I was sick of the covid.[br]And I was able to arrange a clandestine deal

0:59:37.670,0:59:43.160
on a parking lot to get[br]a drug that could save my life.

0:59:43.160,0:59:48.230
I had to trick my government.

0:59:48.230,0:59:53.140
What kind of world do we live in? Medicines[br]that were on sale over the counter a short time ago.

0:59:53.140,0:59:59.000
Exactly. And what keeps me[br]knocking you see is what it looks like

0:59:59.000,1:00:02.420
to be an evidence for you,[br]it's obvious to me, but when I talk about it

1:00:02.420,1:00:07.130
for example, to health officials here,[br]they don't see why it's a problem for me.

1:00:07.130,1:00:12.319
They're surprised that it makes me angry[br]or that it shocks me

1:00:12.319,1:00:17.809
or that I find it questionable.[br]That's crazy. It's crazy but I think

1:00:17.809,1:00:20.420
that we've tipped over[br]in a collective madness.

1:00:20.420,1:00:25.520
People are in awe.[br]There's a psychic rift that makes you think more...

1:00:25.520,1:00:28.940
So sometimes it goes into hysteria.

1:00:28.940,1:00:32.450
I've had medical teachers[br]who insulted me by telling me

1:00:32.450,1:00:37.400
that I was dangerous.[br]Hysterical. I wanted to throw them out.

1:00:37.400,1:00:39.500
a bucket of water in the face[br]to bring them back to their senses.

1:00:39.500,1:00:44.090
University professors of medicine.[br]It shows that the emotional brain

1:00:44.090,1:00:46.370
it is even in everyone's home since

1:00:46.370,1:00:49.910
just because you're a university professor[br]that you can't be in the same state

1:00:49.910,1:00:57.440
of inner panic. And he gave you one of the arguments?[br]Yes. What did he give you?

1:00:57.440,1:01:01.610
as an argument? Why were they hysterical?[br]What were they mad at you about? Listen in part.

1:01:01.610,1:01:05.810
I understood because he said[br]that he disputed my statement

1:01:05.810,1:01:09.230
that we were in a natural order of magnitude[br]for an epidemic in terms of

1:01:09.230,1:01:14.360
contagiousness, dangerousness and lethality.[br]And he said to me, but you don't account for it!

1:01:14.360,1:01:18.050
We had dozens and dozens of beds[br]with people in intensive care,

1:01:18.050,1:01:20.720
it never happened, so...[br]and from this point of view he was not wrong.

1:01:20.720,1:01:25.160
That is to say, the clinical reality,[br]as it can be observed

1:01:25.160,1:01:29.990
at the peak of an epidemic it's different[br]the epidemiological reality that says that

1:01:29.990,1:01:34.580
it didn't kill more than usual.[br]It is two realities that are adjacent,

1:01:34.580,1:01:38.630
if you want. But him because he was[br]so anxious, and then it was a man

1:01:38.630,1:01:42.860
more than 70 years old, so I think that deep down[br]he was freaking out about himself. He felt like

1:01:42.860,1:01:46.670
that death was lurking and then me,[br]instead of fighting with him against death,

1:01:46.670,1:01:49.190
I was saying that[br]but no, but no, death was not dangerous.

1:01:49.190,1:01:53.450
And then somehow he couldn't stand it.[br]So these are arguments

1:01:53.450,1:01:56.690
that he was trying to get, but I had a good time.[br]repeat it five or six times until the moment when the

1:01:56.690,1:02:01.640
where I was forced to block it[br]social networks so much it became harassing.

1:02:01.640,1:02:04.900
To explain to him:[br]I don't dispute what you're saying.

1:02:04.910,1:02:09.230
but from an epidemiological point of view[br]that's what it is. But he had lost

1:02:09.230,1:02:14.450
the ability to think about these issues.[br]I hope that he will read and listen to you and then

1:02:14.450,1:02:16.970
he will realize that, since the internet has some[br]memory,

1:02:16.970,1:02:22.010
you were right. Oh, I didn't so much[br]confidence in it. You know what

1:02:22.010,1:02:25.970
Max Planck said about scientists?[br]He said, quite rightly, and so he who has

1:02:25.970,1:02:29.369
revolutionized physics with physics[br]quantum, he was saying a new theory

1:02:29.369,1:02:34.880
is not necessary because the proponents of the[br]ancient theories adhere to it,

1:02:34.880,1:02:38.579
it is necessary because the proponents[br]of the old theories end up dying

1:02:38.579,1:02:43.290
and there's a new generation coming[br]who has no prejudices

1:02:43.290,1:02:49.440
compared to the theory. And you see, I didn't[br]so much hope on that side.

1:02:49.440,1:02:55.650
I think that people who are so robbed do not[br]will never be right. In any case

1:02:55.650,1:03:00.300
we're going to keep fighting,[br]We've been talking for an hour.

1:03:00.300,1:03:04.300
It passes quickly the time[br]that we discuss together.

1:03:04.319,1:03:11.550
In any case, Jean-Dominique, you continue.[br]Subscribe to his blog. Read,

1:03:11.550,1:03:15.420
share his articles, because[br]Frankly, they are extremely well done,

1:03:15.420,1:03:21.359
and very documented very sourced, it is really[br]the work of a very great professional

1:03:21.359,1:03:25.800
and do not hesitate to share them frankly.[br]Jean-Dominique, thank you

1:03:25.800,1:03:30.780
you can go on my channel whenever you want.[br]Thanks to you, frankly, one moment

1:03:30.780,1:03:34.260
of quality. That's why time flies.[br]And then indeed

1:03:34.260,1:03:37.290
Fortunately, free electrons[br]as you and I dare to take

1:03:37.290,1:03:41.760
their responsibilities. I've been criticized a lot[br]not to be an academic. And at some point,

1:03:41.760,1:03:45.180
my wife told me, made me observe:[br]"But if you were a university professor

1:03:45.180,1:03:47.730
with a 20-year career,[br]you would never have dared to say what you said. »

1:03:47.730,1:03:51.839
And that's where the difference lies,[br]on the contrary it must be valued,

1:03:51.839,1:03:55.140
listen to everyone and so that[br]people can make up their own minds

1:03:55.140,1:04:00.060
according to what makes sense.[br]Thanks to you in any case.

1:04:00.060,1:04:06.000
Thank you Jean-Dominique thank you bye-bye.[br]See you soon! Ciao!