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35C3 preroll music
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Herald: Most recently in South Africa, it
was an awesome experience, awesome people,
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awesome culture but while I only
experienced the tourists way, Sélim Harbi
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brings us the local guide culture. Sélim
allows an immersive and almost physical
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experience of the African identity. Please
welcome on stage Sélim Harby and
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Afroroutes.
Applause
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Sélim: Hi, can you hear me? So first of
all thank you very much to be here.
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I wasn't expecting so much crowd. So again,
give a big applause for yourself. Thank
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you very, very much to be here. Applause
And thank you for the CCC. It's the first time I'm
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here and really experiencing something
totally new for me. And thank you for the
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curators. Thank you for really giving me
the stage to explore with you further this
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project which is Afroroutes. First of all,
I want to tell you something which is very
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personal. The very first time when I was
in Africa, in North Africa, I was invited
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for a ceremony, a ritual, in Morocco. This
ceremony is Gnaoua. I don't know if you
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heard about it. So basically I was
surrounded by African descendants and I
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knew that those descendants are slave
descendants that has been transported and
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displaced from sub-Saharan Africa to
Morocco. So this ceremony was a pretty
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powerful for me. The more I asked the
question about what is the purpose of
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this, why are you doing that. I really
started to explore the history of Africa
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through that. So a couple of years after
that I was luckily able to be in Brazil in
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Salvador de Bahía. I was also invited to a
kind of ceremony called Candomblé, I don't
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know if some of you heard about it, and
the thing is that during the Candomblé
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ritual they were explaining me that, we do
that just to reconnect to the African
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continent, to reconnect with our ancestors
and our history, our slavery history, so
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between Morocco and Brazil I knew that my
story is there. So, Afroroutes is born out of
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this conviction that the displaced culture
from Africa crossing the sea to Latin
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America was a pretty unexplored story. We
see it like slavery. Slavery could be a
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very, very large concept, large idea, very
heavy history for the Africans themselves.
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And I wanted to absolutely to avoid this
kind of images that we used to see, I
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don't know if some of you saw Amistad, the
film, and this is like classical narrative
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of blacks being beaten etc. which is
reality. I wanted to go beyond that and I
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wanted to explore how those diasporas
still connected with their ancestors and
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how is the function of music within this
ceremony. So basically, Afroroots is born
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out of this perspective. Second of all,
I've been also luckily involved in a great
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project, three, four years ago where I
explored or I got in touch with a
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fantastic medium which is Virtual Reality.
I don't know if some of you tried some VR,
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but VR was for me a really new exploration
of how we can tell the story differently.
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How can we really engage and create
another type of connection with stories
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and have a totally different approach with
time and space. This project called The
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Enemy allows me really to widen my
perspective as a storyteller and really go
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into a totally different path, so I
decided to use this medium which is the
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VR, not because I'm most like many of
actors now in the media field, surfing the
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hype or whatever, it's cool to have the
goggles and say, wow it's fantastic. It's
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just because I was deeply convinced that
VR is the proper medium for this story.
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So Virtual Reality, I'm not here the preacher of VRs.
It's for me a very powerful medium in the
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sense of it puts you really in the center
of a reality. You don't have to receive
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data, you don't receive a narrative, you
don't receive, you just put into center of
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reality and you empower your view somehow
to really interpret data in a very
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subjective way what you see and what you
feel. In my eyes, it could be also as I
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hear you can see, it could be really the
next anthropology tool and in that sense,
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it will transform the whole knowledge that
we could have one century long into real
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experiences which is totally different
than just reading a book that someone else
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wrote it or imagined. So VR is creating
powerful memories because just for the
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fact that it provides the context of what
you are seeing. Please, first of all, take
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a look at the trailer of Afroroutes and we
talk a little bit after.
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Video starts playing
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Sélim: No sound.
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It's ok. It happens.
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Sound starts
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Sélim in the video: Centuries ago, many
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Africans were forced to leave their
countries. They were spread in different
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corners of the world. A long, long journey
through lands and seas. They left
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everything behind. They had to leave. They
could only keep their language, their
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culture and of course, their music. So
there is a bigger story than slavery
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itself. This project is not another
apology of slavery. I want to look beyond
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that. What happened after? Where are the
slaves descendants today? What did they
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produce in terms of cultures? How was
their heritage leave they celebrated?
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Is there any tangible memory form. So I
decided to follow the path of the slavery
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roads and I knew that music will guide my
journey.
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For many years, I travelled in
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different countries and met several
diasporas and experienced their well-
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conserved cultures and of course their
music. No history book could explain me
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slavery and the cultural dynamics within
better than being almost there.
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This is exactly what Afroroutes project is about.
I'm using Virtual Reality in 360 videos to
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take you on a journey to meet those
African descendants, to hear their stories
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and experience their heritage.
Here is my concept. As you start to
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experience, you will be surrounded by four
characters. Simply by choosing one, you
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will be brought to a destination. The
character will tell you his story, will
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show you his surroundings before bringing
you to a specific ritual.
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Voice singing in the video
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Man speaking in video: My name is ... I'm ...
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in Tangier, Morocco. I am born in ... a slaves
house. I grew up there.
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Sélim in the video: And that's not all. We
want to bring you much closer. At the end,
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you will be invited to play music with the
characters to feel that physical experience.
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Sélim: Thank you very much.
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applause
Sélim: So basically I decided to go on
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music in this journey because before
drafting the first prototype by writing
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the concept of this project, I did a lot
research and one of my biggest hurdle was,
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I wasn't able to find trustful archives. I
wasn't able to find really powerful
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testimonies of what happened exactly. The
only archives I could found were somewhere
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in the Western world, not in Africa, not
in African bibliotheks, somehow kind of
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jailed into Western bibliotheks of big
institutions. So for me it was a big
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problem and most of this narrative or the
version of this narrative is basically
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written by people who enslaved the
Africans. So for me it was a big problem.
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I can not tell this story from the
perspective of Western perspective which I
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used of course because it gives a lot of
data and information. So for me it was
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clear, in order to tell this story I need
to go deeper into archives. I really need
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to go into what we call the meta archives
which is simply the oral tradition. It's
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what the people used to say and transmit
generation after generation. In this case,
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music was absolutely what I was looking
for because, if you look at little bit of
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the history, those communities wherever
through the trans-Atlantic slave trade,
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the trans-Pacific slave trade or the
trans-Saharan slave trade, that's like
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400, 500 years, but the communities in
Brazil for example, they're still speaking
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Yoruba which is the language from western
coast. The people the Siddi in India, they
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still talking Kiswahili. So it is really
powerful how the music could maintain this
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intangible form in a very intact way and
it's still very very powerful. So I
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decided to go absolutely on music and
explore this displacement through music.
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As you can see in this map, I could
identify also several diasporas. First of
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all, in North Africa which is the Gnawa
and Stambeli communities which are sub-
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Saharan, African transported through the
slavery caravans from the Sahara to North
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Africa. You have also the trans-Atlantic
slave trade which is mainly, the entry
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door was Salvador de Bahía. 90 percent of
all slaves transported from the western
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coast where proceed. The entry door was
Salvador de Bahía and from there was they
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were spread into the whole Caribbean and
from there to the US. So for me, Salvador
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de Bahía was a key point to explore this
and another very untold story, I'm coming
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like three weeks ago from Gujarat from
India where I've been able to visit and
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explore a little bit the other journey
which is the trans-Pacific journey. From
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the Indian cities, the African descended
from the eastern coast, Zanzibar and
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Kenya. So I tried to have this three
destinations to have a better overview of
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what those traditions are. Let me explain
you shortly what you can expect in this
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experience. So basically you will have a
menu. Three characters would be in front
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of you. And as I say in the trailer, you
just have to pick up one, you choose one,
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and you just embark. You don't know who is
the person and you don't know where you
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embark. It's exactly like the slaves
condition in that time. So you embark to a
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destination and at the end, you will
discover where is the destination. So you
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will meet three characters. First of all,
what you saw in the trailer was a maestro,
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healer Abdullah el Gordh from Tangier,
Morocco. Luzinho do Jeje, a percussionist
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in a Candomblé group in Salvador de Bahía
and Siddi Goma which is a band in Siddi in
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India, African descendant and performing
the what they call Damal which is a ritual
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from the Southern India. Ok, so the
experience is quite simple. You get into
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this menu, you choose a character and then
you have a very linear story, 360 story.
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Actually the purpose of that is to have
this character trying to define the place,
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the environment, who he is, and trying
to introduce you slowly to this to his
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community. And after that you will be
totally in a ceremony and a ritual, in a
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specific ritual. You could ask me why
ritual, what is ritual, why you choose to
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put us in the ritual? Personally I think
that a ritual or ceremony is in one hand
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the pure manifestation of that well-
conserved memory, once, and in the other
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hand it is a multimedia explosion. You see
things, you see colors, you see dance, you
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listen to music, you just explore in all
senses and in that sense, VR is very
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powerful to transmit that. Of course as
user you will be able to stop if you want
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but and this is why how technology is
very powerful in this project. You can't
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go further because the structure of the
ritual is basically, the music is gonna go
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a little bit up and up and up in the
ritual. The people go in trance. Why?
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Because this trances is the way to
reconnect with their ancestors. For some
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people maybe it's like something really
new. But the music frequencies that are
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produced during a ceremony whatever with
drums, whatever with other instrument
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jingles etc. put them in a situation
where they really connect with their
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ancestors were there with their heritage,
with the memories and the challenge of
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this project was to reproduce this. Me or
you, you may want to experience that. So
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what you are doing now basically is, we
are working on a technical solution,
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basically an algorithm which measuring
your frequencies and your body movement.
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If you want to go in trance you can. If
you want to stay in the ritual you can.
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The more you stay, the more the music will
go up and more will transport you with
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them. If you if it is too much for you,
you step back and you go back to the menu,
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as simple as that. Those are some
testimonies because during this project,
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as many of you doing projects, you have
moments when you are doubting. You say
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what the fuck are you doing. What's this?
Why are you doing that? So what I always
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do is like when I produce the first
prototype, I go to the people back and say
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look, this is what I'm doing. What do you
think? So, this Maestro of Genua told me,
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this is what I always dreamed about. I
knew that I have brothers and the other
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side. So for me it's a very powerful
testimony that their memories still
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gravitating between the sea and they know
that they have parents, family that
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crossed the borders or crossed the sea and
they are there. So for me it's very
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powerful to know that those people
understand what is the purpose of this
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work and from the other side too. So in
Brazil I had this crazy testimony which
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with where this Maos de Santos told me,
we don't need passports anymore, so we can
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be everywhere. Lately in India, Mr Sabia
which is the lead singer of the Cidi told
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me this is our music there. So for me all
those testimonies show me that this
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project is on a good path somehow and the
purpose why I'm doing that is actually
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and I think beyond music and beyond
slavery and et cetera this dynamics of
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displacement when people move from place
to place, they carry on a set of
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knowledge, set of wisdom with them and
sometimes we think it's gonna be lost
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somehow in the space but I don't think so.
Personally I think that memory is still a
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life always. And music is really powerful
to tell us that the memory can be always
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kept intact. And what I learned also
through this project is that through the
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suffering of being displaced of being
taken somewhere as they create beauty.
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Beauty has been created, celebrated,
transcended into new identity which is
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very beautiful because if you see the
Brazilians. They are now part of Brazil,
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despite the whole harsh situation that
they are living in, their living there,
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that they're still, they adapted to new
environment where they are and it's the
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same for all displaced cultures from
Africa. So outputs of this project, first
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of all, we will produce an app which is
going to be free to download so that
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everyone can experience it on very normal
basic cardboard and also multi user
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experience. So one of my main purpose and
of doing this project, so I want to have
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a kind of social impact through that. I
want to explain somehow slavery in a
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totally different way. I want to have a
kind of educational part of this project.
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So I want that children can go through
that, listen to some music, listen to some
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strong story but also understand
differently what happens. Because maybe we
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love to dance on soul music, jazz music
but somehow we forget where it's coming
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from and then what is the whole journey
that we all today's pretend that we are
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open and love this jazz music and stuff.
But we don't understand where it's coming
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from. Why is it like this? How those
displaced communities had lived. That we
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today can listen to their music and enjoy
it. So I actually I am, in order to finish
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this small speech. You know what's this?
Actually I made, I made some research
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because early this year I was invited to
have a TedX-Talk in Cape Verde and the theme
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was roots, Wurzeln, and I made some
research and I found out that 99 percent
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of the plants on this earth cannot live
without roots in the site. Only one plant
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and this plant is magic. This plant could
transform the role of the roots in the
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soil through the leaves. The name of this
plant is Tillandsias and it's a very
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inspiring plant because it has like
through the years transformed the role of
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the roots into to something else. It
lives without roots. For me it's a very
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inspiring plant because it kind of
reminds us that we we are all like kind of
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we can reinvent ourself and this is the
case also for those displaced
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communities. They reinvented something.
They really transformed and transformed,
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transcended that identity to something
beautiful. So far, I came to the end of
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my pitch. Thank you very much. If
you have questions ...
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applause
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Herald: Small note on the end. He said
earlier that he brought the prototype.
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Sélim confirms
Herald: I think you're able and willing to
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show.
Sélim: Yes. If people want to test it to
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have a prototype with me so outside maybe,
yes.
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Herald: Perfect. In this case I think you
meet each other outside, in front of the
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room. If you have questions there are two
microphones. Please ask your questions and
00:25:20.210 --> 00:25:27.830
please speak out loud into the microphone
directly. Number two please.
00:25:27.830 --> 00:25:32.409
F1: Ok, thank you for our talk. I know
from Brazil but I think this is valid for
00:25:32.409 --> 00:25:36.970
the other locations too, that they are
actually discussions that ceremonies like
00:25:36.970 --> 00:25:41.820
this which are sacred should not be easily
accessible to outsiders and especially
00:25:41.820 --> 00:25:45.460
Europeans who come there usually as a
tourist and see that as like cheap
00:25:45.460 --> 00:25:50.890
attraction and then they go and go back to
the resort or something. So how would you
00:25:50.890 --> 00:25:54.890
situate your project in those discussion
or did you take part in them?
00:25:54.890 --> 00:25:59.090
Sélim: Okay. Thank you for this question.
Actually it took me one and a half
00:25:59.090 --> 00:26:07.289
year to find the right person and to work
it out to get into a Candomblé session,
00:26:07.289 --> 00:26:12.210
exactly they didn't want to reduce it to
cheap entertainment which is not the case.
00:26:12.210 --> 00:26:17.190
First of all, they were saying to me: "What
you come from Europe, you want to just to
00:26:17.190 --> 00:26:24.140
reduce our spirituality into an
entertainment." It took me a lot of time to
00:26:24.140 --> 00:26:30.720
really convince my local producer there
which is part of the family of Candomblé.
00:26:30.720 --> 00:26:35.620
That's not the case. I'm coming with a
totally different concept. Of course we
00:26:35.620 --> 00:26:42.890
are, it's a kind of golden gate you open
for that and they're not like used to
00:26:42.890 --> 00:26:48.850
let everybody to those ceremonies and
those rituals, especially in Brazil where
00:26:48.850 --> 00:26:54.809
the socio-economic pressure and situation
is really special. It's really harsh. So
00:26:54.809 --> 00:27:00.060
for them Candomblé is a kind of identity,
it's us, you know, it's kind of: this is us
00:27:00.060 --> 00:27:05.720
and this is the other Brazil. So yes it
took me a long time to convince the people
00:27:05.720 --> 00:27:11.540
to establish trust and to really be there
many times and to and to let them
00:27:11.540 --> 00:27:18.750
understand look, it is a project that aims
to connect those diasporic heritage. You
00:27:18.750 --> 00:27:25.490
know I want to show this to maybe your
brothers and sisters in India, in Morocco.
00:27:25.490 --> 00:27:35.070
And it's worked out, so somehow, VR, it's
giving you as author also this question of
00:27:35.070 --> 00:27:46.190
ethics because you don't frame something,
you put the user inside a set. So, for them
00:27:46.190 --> 00:27:51.909
it's a kind of secret. You know, I don't
know, if some people of you have been in a
00:27:51.909 --> 00:27:56.580
Candomblé session. It is very powerful
like when the drums starting and going up
00:27:56.580 --> 00:28:04.640
and up and up and up, it's fantastic I mean
it's euphoria that goes up and for them it's a
00:28:04.640 --> 00:28:09.220
way to be. It's a way to say, here we are.
We don't forget, we are here, we
00:28:09.220 --> 00:28:14.371
celebrate, we cry, we love and we live
here and we don't forget where we're
00:28:14.371 --> 00:28:20.190
coming from. So this magical gates that we
are is up. Of course it keeps the whole
00:28:20.190 --> 00:28:31.400
kind of responsibility somehow.
Herald: Thank you. Next question, nice. In
00:28:31.400 --> 00:28:33.590
this case, I have the opportunity...Number
two please.
00:28:33.590 --> 00:28:41.860
F2: Thank you for your talk. I would like
to add a little bit to that
00:28:41.860 --> 00:28:45.100
Herald: Questions only please.
F2: Ok.
00:28:45.100 --> 00:28:52.919
Herald: So what's the question?
F2: The question is, well I can't do that,
00:28:52.919 --> 00:28:58.250
I need to add something because I think
that some things are not presented right
00:28:58.250 --> 00:29:03.670
or just wrong. Candomblé it's not just
anything but it is a direct connection to
00:29:03.670 --> 00:29:05.800
the ..
Herald: Ok, in this case I will shift the
00:29:05.800 --> 00:29:08.980
discussion back to the ... Can we have the
next question please?
00:29:08.980 --> 00:29:12.659
F2: ...and this is shortened to something
which cannot be shortened.
00:29:12.659 --> 00:29:18.510
Herald: Okay go ahead, sure.
F2: ...and the Candomblé and Dojoba are
00:29:18.510 --> 00:29:22.700
directly connected and have a religious
foundation. So this is just in addition
00:29:22.700 --> 00:29:28.510
about that and also there was something
wrong in your talk. You said the people
00:29:28.510 --> 00:29:34.950
were deported to North America did not go
through South America. But they also went
00:29:34.950 --> 00:29:39.670
directly there, they were transported
directly there. So just those additions. I
00:29:39.670 --> 00:29:44.679
would love to discuss with you this
further and not to ... also of course
00:29:44.679 --> 00:29:49.080
everybody can ask me after that because I
don't want to monopolize this.
00:29:49.080 --> 00:29:52.987
Sélim: Ok, thank you very much.
Herald: Ok, next question please. Number two.
00:29:52.987 --> 00:29:57.700
F3: Ok, it's follow up question. If your
00:29:57.700 --> 00:30:05.730
only aim were to connect the communities,
why, how does the free downloadable app
00:30:05.730 --> 00:30:11.789
into that so, could you maybe elaborate on
the entertainment part a little bit more
00:30:11.789 --> 00:30:17.550
because I don't see that point will be
treated by your answer. The other
00:30:17.550 --> 00:30:23.460
question: Is there any profit in your
project? And if yes, who gets that profit.
00:30:23.460 --> 00:30:29.390
Sélim: Okay first of all, why an app,
because basically I want to share it with
00:30:29.390 --> 00:30:36.460
people as simple as that. Profit, till now
we don't have any profit. We produce a
00:30:36.460 --> 00:30:42.490
prototype after the prototype with a
company based in Berlin which is in VR. So
00:30:42.490 --> 00:30:48.370
we got small money just to produce that
and to make it in a good way and to
00:30:48.370 --> 00:30:54.809
explore VR, first of all, as as a
storytelling tool. So there is no profit
00:30:54.809 --> 00:31:06.270
in that sense. This project is since two
and a half year. We got some small grants
00:31:06.270 --> 00:31:14.390
from cultural institutions to make
research but beyond that I mean the main
00:31:14.390 --> 00:31:19.460
purpose is not to make money out of this,
basically. The main purpose is to
00:31:19.460 --> 00:31:27.850
distribute it, to shift somehow the
conscience of people to present this issue
00:31:27.850 --> 00:31:36.461
in a totally different way but also to try
to somehow engage the debate, you know, to
00:31:36.461 --> 00:31:44.529
unroot narratives which is in our
conscience still there. We see blacks as
00:31:44.529 --> 00:31:50.649
you know slaves etc. We don't have it
easy to really decode what happened, you
00:31:50.649 --> 00:31:54.810
know, in terms of culture, in terms of
anthropology. So this project is an
00:31:54.810 --> 00:32:00.669
attempt to that, is a trigger. So that's
why we're here, to discuss that. So till
00:32:00.669 --> 00:32:07.620
now we didn't really have a business plan
for this project but I would be very happy
00:32:07.620 --> 00:32:13.520
that people can see it first of all. Thank
you.
00:32:13.520 --> 00:32:21.730
Herald: And number two again please.
F4: Thank you, Sélim, for this talk. You
00:32:21.730 --> 00:32:28.799
started with VR as a tool for anthropology
and then you refered to it again. Could
00:32:28.799 --> 00:32:33.970
you please elaborate a little bit more on
this anthropology, how this plays a role
00:32:33.970 --> 00:32:45.270
in your project? I hope my question is
clear enough to give you a point for
00:32:45.270 --> 00:32:52.770
starting.
Sélim: Yeah. I think that was part in the
00:32:52.770 --> 00:32:59.520
answers in the presentation. VR is... I
mean I don't pretend to be first of all an
00:32:59.520 --> 00:33:06.340
expert on VR. Second of all, nobody can
pretend to be an expert in VR. It's a very
00:33:06.340 --> 00:33:11.960
nascent new tool and everybody's like
experimenting. Some works are good, some
00:33:11.960 --> 00:33:17.240
works are consequent, some works are
powerful but some work are total failures.
00:33:17.240 --> 00:33:22.060
So let's be honest about that, so nobody
can pretend to having the magical formula
00:33:22.060 --> 00:33:33.860
to do the best VR piece ever. But I think
personally it's a tool that can really put us in
00:33:33.860 --> 00:33:39.940
a situation when we can really embrace the
world in a totally different way. If you
00:33:39.940 --> 00:33:44.230
go back a little bit in the history and
you see like the the cinema that had been
00:33:44.230 --> 00:33:50.050
produced in the early 60s or 70s by Jean
Rou for example, in Africa, which is a
00:33:50.050 --> 00:33:57.059
very honest work he put in frame like the
reality as it is from African living
00:33:57.059 --> 00:34:12.070
there. But I think that approach has been
always through the technology approach. We had
00:34:12.070 --> 00:34:18.849
always built this pictures of Africa
through other people's eyes and VR is
00:34:18.849 --> 00:34:26.820
totally the opposite of that. Is just you
put a camera and you disappear. You have a
00:34:26.820 --> 00:34:32.700
360 degree, things happen, you observe,
then you look at the footage you want to
00:34:32.700 --> 00:34:38.730
design it, or not, as your choice but
basically the act of filming VR or
00:34:38.730 --> 00:34:45.459
capturing 360 content is very easy. It's
very simple. It's just, you put the user
00:34:45.459 --> 00:34:49.789
in the centre of something. In that
perspective I think it's very powerful
00:34:49.789 --> 00:34:55.440
anthropology tool because anthropology is
based on observation, so as simple as
00:34:55.440 --> 00:35:01.020
that.
Herald: Thank you. I think I have the
00:35:01.020 --> 00:35:09.749
honor of the last question, finally. You
mentioned more modern art or more modern
00:35:09.749 --> 00:35:13.380
music project. What are your upcoming
projects and what do you think is the
00:35:13.380 --> 00:35:22.890
technology like in 10 years for you,
related to your upcoming projects?
00:35:22.890 --> 00:35:30.729
Sélim: I'm still stuck in this project and
I think basically we are far from the end
00:35:30.729 --> 00:35:37.599
product or output but I'm very happy to
see that people engaged with that. I just
00:35:37.599 --> 00:35:41.920
came from another meeting I told you from
re:publica in Africa and I realized that
00:35:41.920 --> 00:35:48.640
this project, I identified basically
two audiences. First of all, you have the
00:35:48.640 --> 00:35:54.799
African audiences which for them just to
be in a ceremony is enough. It's fantastic
00:35:54.799 --> 00:36:01.880
they freak out, It's exactly what they are
looking for, in terms of memory and
00:36:01.880 --> 00:36:07.559
displacement. It's very enough and you
have the VR audience. People who would say
00:36:07.559 --> 00:36:12.219
ok what can I experience here? You know, I
see people dancing around me, listening to
00:36:12.219 --> 00:36:17.039
music, cool, I can dance but what I'm
expecting? We are working on this part we
00:36:17.039 --> 00:36:24.650
want to make feel the user how this music
and this power of music can work on
00:36:24.650 --> 00:36:30.089
your conscience can work on your brain
activity, can engage you physically and
00:36:30.089 --> 00:36:35.709
this is how we are working now with music
and code. With coding music, we are
00:36:35.709 --> 00:36:39.529
analyzing the frequencies that are
producing through the combination of high
00:36:39.529 --> 00:36:46.069
frequencies and low frequencies and that
creates this space of trance. And of
00:36:46.069 --> 00:36:52.513
course you cannot push users directly into
trance, some people don't want this. So yes,
00:36:52.513 --> 00:37:00.680
the next step will be to elaborate this
interactive ceremony, so you can really go
00:37:00.680 --> 00:37:05.969
deeper producing CGI the more the trance
will go, the more you will see things
00:37:05.969 --> 00:37:11.349
happening. The more you visualize the
memories, the more you will see, the
00:37:11.349 --> 00:37:21.200
belief, the spirits, whatever, and the
more you will have this physical
00:37:21.200 --> 00:37:25.559
experience of being in a ritual. So, this
is a next step, basically.
00:37:25.559 --> 00:37:29.530
Herald: Thank you very much.
Sélim: Thank you, thank you a lot.
00:37:29.530 --> 00:37:32.483
Herald: I want a round of applause for
Sélim.
00:37:32.483 --> 00:37:38.259
applause
00:37:38.259 --> 00:37:43.059
postroll music
00:37:43.059 --> 00:38:02.000
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