[Script Info]
Title: 
[Events]
Format: Layer, Start, End, Style, Name, MarginL, MarginR, MarginV, Effect, Text
Dialogue: 0,0:00:03.63,0:00:07.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"I felt a funeral in my brain,
Dialogue: 0,0:00:07.84,0:00:10.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and mourners to and fro
Dialogue: 0,0:00:10.24,0:00:12.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,kept treading, treading til I felt
Dialogue: 0,0:00:12.90,0:00:15.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that sense was breaking through.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:15.84,0:00:17.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And when they were all were seated,
Dialogue: 0,0:00:17.60,0:00:19.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a service, like a drum,
Dialogue: 0,0:00:19.60,0:00:22.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,kept beating, beating,
Dialogue: 0,0:00:22.32,0:00:25.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,til I felt my mind was going numb.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:25.83,0:00:27.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And then I heard them lift a box
Dialogue: 0,0:00:27.71,0:00:29.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and creak across my soul
Dialogue: 0,0:00:29.99,0:00:33.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with those same boots of lead again,
Dialogue: 0,0:00:33.05,0:00:36.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,then space began to toll,
Dialogue: 0,0:00:36.07,0:00:38.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as if the heavens were a bell
Dialogue: 0,0:00:38.21,0:00:40.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and being were an ear,
Dialogue: 0,0:00:40.20,0:00:44.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I, and silence, some strange race wrecked
Dialogue: 0,0:00:44.07,0:00:46.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,solitary here.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:46.49,0:00:49.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Just then, a plank in reason broke,
Dialogue: 0,0:00:49.67,0:00:53.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I fell down and down
Dialogue: 0,0:00:53.01,0:00:55.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and hit a world at every plunge,
Dialogue: 0,0:00:55.69,0:01:00.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and finished knowing then."
Dialogue: 0,0:01:00.20,0:01:03.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We know depression through metaphors.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:03.68,0:01:07.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Emily Dickinson was able to convey it in language,
Dialogue: 0,0:01:07.39,0:01:10.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Goya in an image.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:10.13,0:01:12.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Half the purpose of art
Dialogue: 0,0:01:12.11,0:01:15.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is to describe such iconic states.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:15.100,0:01:19.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,As for me, I had always thought myself tough,
Dialogue: 0,0:01:19.76,0:01:21.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,one of the people who could survive
Dialogue: 0,0:01:21.46,0:01:24.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,if I'd been sent to a concentration camp.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:24.61,0:01:27.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In 1991, I had a series of losses.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:27.50,0:01:29.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,My mother died,
Dialogue: 0,0:01:29.20,0:01:31.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a relationship I'd been in ended,
Dialogue: 0,0:01:31.32,0:01:33.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I moved back to the United States
Dialogue: 0,0:01:33.17,0:01:35.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,from some years abroad,
Dialogue: 0,0:01:35.27,0:01:38.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I got through all of those experiences intact.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:38.43,0:01:41.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But in 1994, three years later,
Dialogue: 0,0:01:41.54,0:01:45.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I found myself losing interest in almost everything.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:45.93,0:01:47.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I didn't want to do any of the things
Dialogue: 0,0:01:47.58,0:01:49.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I had previously wanted to do,
Dialogue: 0,0:01:49.96,0:01:51.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I didn't know why.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:51.88,0:01:53.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The opposite of depression
Dialogue: 0,0:01:53.70,0:01:56.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is not happiness, but vitality,
Dialogue: 0,0:01:56.93,0:01:58.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and it was vitality
Dialogue: 0,0:01:58.43,0:02:02.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that seemed to seep away from me in that moment.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:02.08,0:02:04.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Everything there was to do
Dialogue: 0,0:02:04.24,0:02:06.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,seemed like too much work.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:06.41,0:02:08.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I would come home
Dialogue: 0,0:02:08.06,0:02:11.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I would see the red light\Nflashing on my answering machine,
Dialogue: 0,0:02:11.44,0:02:13.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and instead of being thrilled to hear from my friends,
Dialogue: 0,0:02:13.58,0:02:15.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I would think,
Dialogue: 0,0:02:15.13,0:02:18.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"What a lot of people that is to have to call back."
Dialogue: 0,0:02:18.37,0:02:20.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Or I would decide I should have lunch,
Dialogue: 0,0:02:20.76,0:02:23.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and then I would think that\NI'd have to get the food out
Dialogue: 0,0:02:23.30,0:02:25.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and put it on a plate
Dialogue: 0,0:02:25.34,0:02:29.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and cut it up and chew it and swallow it,
Dialogue: 0,0:02:29.39,0:02:33.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and it felt to me like the Stations of the Cross.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:33.09,0:02:35.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And one of the things that often gets lost
Dialogue: 0,0:02:35.54,0:02:37.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in discussions of depression
Dialogue: 0,0:02:37.44,0:02:39.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is that you know it's ridiculous.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:39.80,0:02:42.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You know it's ridiculous while you're experiencing it.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:42.54,0:02:44.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You know that most people manage
Dialogue: 0,0:02:44.68,0:02:46.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to listen to their messages and eat lunch
Dialogue: 0,0:02:46.100,0:02:48.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and organize themselves to take a shower
Dialogue: 0,0:02:48.91,0:02:50.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and go out the front door
Dialogue: 0,0:02:50.17,0:02:51.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and that it's not a big deal,
Dialogue: 0,0:02:51.64,0:02:54.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and yet you are nonetheless in its grip
Dialogue: 0,0:02:54.98,0:02:58.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and you are unable to figure out any way around it.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:58.74,0:03:03.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so I began to feel myself doing less
Dialogue: 0,0:03:03.24,0:03:05.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and thinking less
Dialogue: 0,0:03:05.33,0:03:07.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and feeling less.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:07.69,0:03:10.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It was a kind of nullity.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:10.05,0:03:12.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And then the anxiety set in.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:12.42,0:03:14.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If you told me that I'd have to be
Dialogue: 0,0:03:14.69,0:03:16.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,depressed for the next month,
Dialogue: 0,0:03:16.28,0:03:19.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I would say, "As long I know it'll be\Nover in November, I can do it."
Dialogue: 0,0:03:19.51,0:03:20.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But if you said to me,
Dialogue: 0,0:03:20.62,0:03:23.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"You have to have acute anxiety for the next month,"
Dialogue: 0,0:03:23.92,0:03:26.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I would rather slit my wrist than go through it.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:26.30,0:03:28.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It was the feeling all the time
Dialogue: 0,0:03:28.08,0:03:30.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,like that feeling you have if you're walking
Dialogue: 0,0:03:30.31,0:03:31.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and you slip or trip
Dialogue: 0,0:03:31.71,0:03:33.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the ground is rushing up at you,
Dialogue: 0,0:03:33.59,0:03:36.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but instead of lasting half a\Nsecond, the way that does,
Dialogue: 0,0:03:36.31,0:03:38.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it lasted for six months.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:38.25,0:03:41.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's a sensation of being afraid all the time
Dialogue: 0,0:03:41.28,0:03:45.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but not even knowing what it is that you're afraid of.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:45.06,0:03:47.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And it was at that point that I began to think
Dialogue: 0,0:03:47.48,0:03:51.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that it was just too painful to be alive,
Dialogue: 0,0:03:51.48,0:03:54.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and that the only reason not to kill oneself
Dialogue: 0,0:03:54.06,0:03:57.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,was so as not to hurt other people.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:57.19,0:04:00.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And finally one day, I woke up
Dialogue: 0,0:04:00.20,0:04:02.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I thought perhaps I'd had a stroke,
Dialogue: 0,0:04:02.21,0:04:04.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because I lay in bed completely frozen,
Dialogue: 0,0:04:04.94,0:04:06.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,looking at the telephone, thinking,
Dialogue: 0,0:04:06.89,0:04:10.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"Something is wrong and I should call for help,"
Dialogue: 0,0:04:10.45,0:04:12.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I couldn't reach out my arm
Dialogue: 0,0:04:12.19,0:04:14.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and pick up the phone and dial.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:14.65,0:04:18.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And finally, after four full hours\Nof my lying and staring at it,
Dialogue: 0,0:04:18.80,0:04:20.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the phone rang,
Dialogue: 0,0:04:20.16,0:04:22.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and somehow I managed to pick it up,
Dialogue: 0,0:04:22.41,0:04:24.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and it was my father,
Dialogue: 0,0:04:24.21,0:04:27.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I said, "I'm in serious trouble.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:27.36,0:04:29.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We need to do something."
Dialogue: 0,0:04:29.53,0:04:32.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The next day I started with the medications
Dialogue: 0,0:04:32.86,0:04:35.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the therapy.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:35.22,0:04:37.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I also started reckoning
Dialogue: 0,0:04:37.53,0:04:39.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with this terrible question:
Dialogue: 0,0:04:39.41,0:04:41.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,if I'm not the tough person
Dialogue: 0,0:04:41.48,0:04:44.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who could have made it\Nthrough a concentration camp,
Dialogue: 0,0:04:44.04,0:04:45.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,then who am I?
Dialogue: 0,0:04:45.68,0:04:47.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I have to take medication,
Dialogue: 0,0:04:47.63,0:04:51.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is that medication making me more fully myself,
Dialogue: 0,0:04:51.34,0:04:53.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or is it making me someone else?
Dialogue: 0,0:04:53.75,0:04:55.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And how do I feel about it
Dialogue: 0,0:04:55.45,0:04:57.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,if it's making me someone else?
Dialogue: 0,0:04:57.99,0:05:01.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I had two advantages as I went in to the fight.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:01.30,0:05:04.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The first is that I knew that objectively speaking,
Dialogue: 0,0:05:04.28,0:05:05.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I had a nice life,
Dialogue: 0,0:05:05.90,0:05:07.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and that if I could only get well,
Dialogue: 0,0:05:07.79,0:05:08.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,there was something at the other end
Dialogue: 0,0:05:08.99,0:05:11.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that was worth living for.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:11.01,0:05:14.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And the other was that I had\Naccess to good treatment.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:14.05,0:05:17.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But I nonetheless emerged and relapsed,
Dialogue: 0,0:05:17.82,0:05:20.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and emerged and relapsed,
Dialogue: 0,0:05:20.10,0:05:23.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and emerged and relapsed,
Dialogue: 0,0:05:23.14,0:05:25.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and finally understood
Dialogue: 0,0:05:25.09,0:05:27.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I would have to be on medication
Dialogue: 0,0:05:27.34,0:05:29.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and in therapy forever.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:29.63,0:05:32.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I thought, "But is it a chemical problem
Dialogue: 0,0:05:32.01,0:05:33.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or a psychological problem?
Dialogue: 0,0:05:33.77,0:05:37.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And does it need a chemical cure\Nor a philosophical cure?"
Dialogue: 0,0:05:37.47,0:05:39.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I couldn't figure out which it was.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:39.52,0:05:42.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And then I understood that actually,
Dialogue: 0,0:05:42.00,0:05:44.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we aren't advanced enough in either area
Dialogue: 0,0:05:44.08,0:05:46.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for it to explain things fully.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:46.01,0:05:49.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The chemical cure and the psychological cure
Dialogue: 0,0:05:49.26,0:05:51.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,both have a role to play,
Dialogue: 0,0:05:51.06,0:05:54.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I also figured out that depression was something
Dialogue: 0,0:05:54.80,0:05:57.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that was braided so deep into us
Dialogue: 0,0:05:57.31,0:05:58.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that there was no separating it
Dialogue: 0,0:05:58.93,0:06:01.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,from our character and personality.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:01.41,0:06:03.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I want to say that the treatments we have
Dialogue: 0,0:06:03.44,0:06:05.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for depression are appalling.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:05.99,0:06:07.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They're not very effective.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:07.82,0:06:09.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They're extremely costly.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:09.65,0:06:12.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They come with innumerable side effects.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:12.10,0:06:13.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They're a disaster.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:13.89,0:06:16.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But I am so grateful that I live now
Dialogue: 0,0:06:16.77,0:06:18.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and not 50 years ago,
Dialogue: 0,0:06:18.58,0:06:20.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,when there would have been almost nothing
Dialogue: 0,0:06:20.09,0:06:21.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to be done.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:21.49,0:06:24.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I hope that 50 years hence,
Dialogue: 0,0:06:24.07,0:06:25.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,people will hear about my treatments
Dialogue: 0,0:06:25.93,0:06:28.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and be appalled that anyone endured
Dialogue: 0,0:06:28.06,0:06:30.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,such primitive science.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:30.88,0:06:35.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Depression is the flaw in love.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:35.44,0:06:38.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If you were married to someone and thought,
Dialogue: 0,0:06:38.58,0:06:42.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"Well, if my wife dies, I'll find another one,"
Dialogue: 0,0:06:42.18,0:06:45.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it wouldn't be love as we know it.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:45.22,0:06:47.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There's no such thing as love
Dialogue: 0,0:06:47.17,0:06:49.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,without the anticipation of loss,
Dialogue: 0,0:06:49.82,0:06:52.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and that specter of despair
Dialogue: 0,0:06:52.40,0:06:56.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,can be the engine of intimacy.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:56.13,0:06:59.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There are three things people tend to confuse:
Dialogue: 0,0:06:59.06,0:07:02.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,depression, grief, and sadness.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:02.86,0:07:06.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Grief is explicitly reactive.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:06.14,0:07:09.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If you have a loss and you feel incredibly unhappy,
Dialogue: 0,0:07:09.10,0:07:10.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and then, six months later,
Dialogue: 0,0:07:10.74,0:07:13.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you are still deeply sad, but\Nyou're functioning a little better,
Dialogue: 0,0:07:13.96,0:07:15.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it's probably grief,
Dialogue: 0,0:07:15.69,0:07:17.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and it will probably ultimately resolve itself
Dialogue: 0,0:07:17.98,0:07:19.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in some measure.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:19.43,0:07:22.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If you experience a catastrophic loss,
Dialogue: 0,0:07:22.18,0:07:23.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and you feel terrible,
Dialogue: 0,0:07:23.39,0:07:26.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and six months later, you can barely function at all,
Dialogue: 0,0:07:26.39,0:07:28.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,then it's probably a depression that was triggered
Dialogue: 0,0:07:28.98,0:07:31.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,by the catastrophic circumstances.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:31.45,0:07:35.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The trajectory tells us a great deal.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:35.08,0:07:38.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,People think of depression as being just sadness.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:38.44,0:07:40.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's much, much too much sadness,
Dialogue: 0,0:07:40.78,0:07:42.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,much too much grief
Dialogue: 0,0:07:42.44,0:07:45.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,at far too slight a cause.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:45.37,0:07:48.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,As I set out to understand depression,
Dialogue: 0,0:07:48.12,0:07:50.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and to interview people who had experienced it,
Dialogue: 0,0:07:50.95,0:07:53.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I found that there were people who seemed
Dialogue: 0,0:07:53.98,0:07:55.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on the surface to have what sounded like
Dialogue: 0,0:07:55.39,0:07:57.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,relatively mild depression
Dialogue: 0,0:07:57.75,0:08:01.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who were nonetheless utterly disabled by it.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:01.20,0:08:03.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And there were other people who had what sounded
Dialogue: 0,0:08:03.05,0:08:04.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as they described it
Dialogue: 0,0:08:04.36,0:08:06.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,like terribly severe depression
Dialogue: 0,0:08:06.62,0:08:09.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who nonetheless had good lives in the intercesses
Dialogue: 0,0:08:09.43,0:08:11.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,between their depressive episodes.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:11.59,0:08:14.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I set out to find out what it is
Dialogue: 0,0:08:14.27,0:08:15.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that causes some people
Dialogue: 0,0:08:15.87,0:08:18.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to be more resilient than other people.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:18.13,0:08:19.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What are the mechanisms
Dialogue: 0,0:08:19.69,0:08:21.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that allow people to survive?
Dialogue: 0,0:08:21.53,0:08:24.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I went out and interviewed person after person
Dialogue: 0,0:08:24.70,0:08:26.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who was suffering with depression.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:26.87,0:08:28.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,One of the first people I interviewed
Dialogue: 0,0:08:28.82,0:08:30.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,described depression
Dialogue: 0,0:08:30.71,0:08:33.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as a slower way of being dead,
Dialogue: 0,0:08:33.97,0:08:36.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and that was a good thing for me to hear early on
Dialogue: 0,0:08:36.09,0:08:37.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because it reminded me
Dialogue: 0,0:08:37.46,0:08:39.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that that slow way of being dead
Dialogue: 0,0:08:39.46,0:08:41.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,can lead to actual deadness,
Dialogue: 0,0:08:41.49,0:08:43.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that this is a serious business.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:43.50,0:08:46.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's the leading disability worldwide,
Dialogue: 0,0:08:46.15,0:08:49.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and people die of it every day.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:49.18,0:08:50.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,One of the people I talked to
Dialogue: 0,0:08:50.95,0:08:52.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,when I was trying to understand this
Dialogue: 0,0:08:52.93,0:08:54.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,was a beloved friend
Dialogue: 0,0:08:54.60,0:08:56.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who I had known for many years,
Dialogue: 0,0:08:56.61,0:08:59.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and who had had a psychotic episode
Dialogue: 0,0:08:59.16,0:09:01.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in her freshman year of college,
Dialogue: 0,0:09:01.06,0:09:04.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and then plummeted into a horrific depression.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:04.12,0:09:05.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,She had bipolar illness,
Dialogue: 0,0:09:05.54,0:09:08.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or manic depression, as it was then known.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:08.18,0:09:10.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And then she did very well
Dialogue: 0,0:09:10.23,0:09:11.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for many years on lithium,
Dialogue: 0,0:09:11.94,0:09:13.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and then eventually,
Dialogue: 0,0:09:13.31,0:09:15.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,she was taken off her lithium
Dialogue: 0,0:09:15.27,0:09:17.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to see how she would do without it,
Dialogue: 0,0:09:17.11,0:09:19.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and she had another psychosis,
Dialogue: 0,0:09:19.08,0:09:21.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and then plunged into the worst depression
Dialogue: 0,0:09:21.42,0:09:23.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that I had ever seen
Dialogue: 0,0:09:23.29,0:09:26.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in which she sat in her parents' apartment,
Dialogue: 0,0:09:26.31,0:09:29.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,more or less catatonic, essentially without moving,
Dialogue: 0,0:09:29.38,0:09:31.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,day after day after day.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:31.86,0:09:35.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And when I interviewed her about\Nthat experience some years later
Dialogue: 0,0:09:35.08,0:09:38.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,— she's a poet and psychotherapist\Nnamed Maggie Robbins —
Dialogue: 0,0:09:38.41,0:09:41.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,when I interviewed her, she said,
Dialogue: 0,0:09:41.65,0:09:45.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"I was singing 'Where Have All The Flowers Gone'
Dialogue: 0,0:09:45.03,0:09:48.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,over and over to occupy my mind.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:48.24,0:09:51.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I was singing to blot out the\Nthings my mind was saying,
Dialogue: 0,0:09:51.38,0:09:55.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which were, 'You are nothing. You are nobody.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:55.86,0:09:58.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You don't even deserve to live.'
Dialogue: 0,0:09:58.69,0:10:00.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And that was when I really started thinking
Dialogue: 0,0:10:00.87,0:10:03.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about killing myself."
Dialogue: 0,0:10:03.08,0:10:04.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You don't think in depression
Dialogue: 0,0:10:04.99,0:10:07.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that you've put on a grey veil
Dialogue: 0,0:10:07.13,0:10:09.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and are seeing the world through the haze
Dialogue: 0,0:10:09.11,0:10:11.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of a bad mood.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:11.00,0:10:13.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You think that the veil has been taken away,
Dialogue: 0,0:10:13.72,0:10:15.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the veil of happiness,
Dialogue: 0,0:10:15.64,0:10:18.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and that now you're seeing truly.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:18.07,0:10:21.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's easier to help schizophrenics who perceive
Dialogue: 0,0:10:21.03,0:10:22.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that there's something foreign inside of them
Dialogue: 0,0:10:22.84,0:10:25.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that needs to be exorcised,
Dialogue: 0,0:10:25.03,0:10:27.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but it's difficult with depressives,
Dialogue: 0,0:10:27.19,0:10:31.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because we believe we are seeing the truth.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:31.04,0:10:33.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But the truth lies.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:33.99,0:10:35.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I became obsessed with that sentence.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:35.98,0:10:38.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"But the truth lies."
Dialogue: 0,0:10:38.36,0:10:40.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I discovered, as I talked to depressive people,
Dialogue: 0,0:10:40.81,0:10:43.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that they have many delusional perceptions.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:43.50,0:10:45.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,People will say, "No one loves me."
Dialogue: 0,0:10:45.16,0:10:46.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And you say, "I love you,
Dialogue: 0,0:10:46.81,0:10:49.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,your wife loves you, your mother loves you."
Dialogue: 0,0:10:49.34,0:10:51.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You can answer that one pretty readily,
Dialogue: 0,0:10:51.26,0:10:52.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,at least for most people.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:52.92,0:10:55.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But people who are depressed will also say,
Dialogue: 0,0:10:55.19,0:10:56.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"No matter what we do,
Dialogue: 0,0:10:56.90,0:10:59.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we're all just going to die in the end."
Dialogue: 0,0:10:59.17,0:11:01.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Or they'll say, "There can be no true communion
Dialogue: 0,0:11:01.37,0:11:03.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,between two human beings.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:03.02,0:11:05.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Each of us is trapped in his own body."
Dialogue: 0,0:11:05.60,0:11:07.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,To which you have to say,
Dialogue: 0,0:11:07.45,0:11:08.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"That's true,
Dialogue: 0,0:11:08.77,0:11:10.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but I think we should focus right now
Dialogue: 0,0:11:10.59,0:11:12.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on what to have for breakfast."
Dialogue: 0,0:11:12.48,0:11:14.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Laughter)
Dialogue: 0,0:11:14.67,0:11:16.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,A lot of the time,
Dialogue: 0,0:11:16.34,0:11:19.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,what they are expressing is not illness, but insight,
Dialogue: 0,0:11:19.23,0:11:21.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and one comes to think what's really extraordinary
Dialogue: 0,0:11:21.89,0:11:24.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is that most of us know about\Nthose existential questions
Dialogue: 0,0:11:24.82,0:11:27.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and they don't distract us very much.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:27.12,0:11:29.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There was a study I particularly liked
Dialogue: 0,0:11:29.27,0:11:30.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in which a group of depressed
Dialogue: 0,0:11:30.95,0:11:32.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and a group of non-depressed people
Dialogue: 0,0:11:32.86,0:11:35.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,were asked to play a video game for an hour,
Dialogue: 0,0:11:35.48,0:11:37.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and at the end of the hour,
Dialogue: 0,0:11:37.29,0:11:38.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they were asked how many little monsters
Dialogue: 0,0:11:38.94,0:11:40.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they thought they had killed.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:40.81,0:11:43.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The depressive group was usually accurate
Dialogue: 0,0:11:43.02,0:11:45.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to within about 10 percent,
Dialogue: 0,0:11:45.08,0:11:46.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the non-depressed people
Dialogue: 0,0:11:46.55,0:11:50.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,guessed between 15 and 20 times as many
Dialogue: 0,0:11:50.09,0:11:51.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,little monsters — (Laughter) —
Dialogue: 0,0:11:51.83,0:11:55.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as they had actually killed.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:55.94,0:11:59.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,A lot of people said, when I chose\Nto write about my depression,
Dialogue: 0,0:11:59.01,0:12:00.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that it must be very difficult
Dialogue: 0,0:12:00.78,0:12:03.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to be out of that closet, to have people know.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:03.90,0:12:06.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They said, "Do people talk to you differently?"
Dialogue: 0,0:12:06.10,0:12:08.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I said, "Yes, people talk to me differently.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:08.18,0:12:10.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They talk to me differently insofar
Dialogue: 0,0:12:10.09,0:12:12.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as they start telling me about their experience,
Dialogue: 0,0:12:12.88,0:12:14.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or their sister's experience,
Dialogue: 0,0:12:14.72,0:12:16.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or their friend's experience.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:16.49,0:12:18.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Things are different because now I know
Dialogue: 0,0:12:18.78,0:12:21.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that depression is the family secret
Dialogue: 0,0:12:21.46,0:12:23.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that everyone has.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:23.54,0:12:27.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I went a few years ago to a conference,
Dialogue: 0,0:12:27.17,0:12:29.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and on Friday of the three day conference,
Dialogue: 0,0:12:29.82,0:12:32.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,one of the participants took me aside, and she said,
Dialogue: 0,0:12:32.71,0:12:36.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"I suffer from depression and
Dialogue: 0,0:12:36.12,0:12:38.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'm a little embarrassed about it,
Dialogue: 0,0:12:38.88,0:12:40.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but I've been taking this medication,
Dialogue: 0,0:12:40.99,0:12:43.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I just wanted to ask you what you think?"
Dialogue: 0,0:12:43.94,0:12:46.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so I did my best to give\Nher such advice as I could.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:46.54,0:12:48.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And then she said, "You know,
Dialogue: 0,0:12:48.49,0:12:51.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,my husband would never understand this.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:51.28,0:12:53.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,He's really the kind of guy to whom\Nthis wouldn't make any sense,
Dialogue: 0,0:12:53.85,0:12:56.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so I just, you know, it's just between us."
Dialogue: 0,0:12:56.72,0:12:58.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I said, "Yes, that's fine."
Dialogue: 0,0:12:58.51,0:13:00.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,On Sunday of the same conference,
Dialogue: 0,0:13:00.62,0:13:03.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,her husband took me aside,
Dialogue: 0,0:13:03.66,0:13:05.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and he said, "My wife wouldn't think
Dialogue: 0,0:13:05.35,0:13:07.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that I was really much of a guy if she knew this,
Dialogue: 0,0:13:07.79,0:13:10.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but I've been dealing with this depression
Dialogue: 0,0:13:10.26,0:13:11.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I'm taking some medication,
Dialogue: 0,0:13:11.61,0:13:14.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I wondered what you think?"
Dialogue: 0,0:13:14.11,0:13:15.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They were hiding
Dialogue: 0,0:13:15.54,0:13:17.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the same medication in two different places
Dialogue: 0,0:13:17.75,0:13:20.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in the same bedroom.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:20.69,0:13:22.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I said that I thought
Dialogue: 0,0:13:22.42,0:13:24.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,communication within the marriage
Dialogue: 0,0:13:24.10,0:13:26.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,might be triggering some of their problems.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:26.12,0:13:30.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Laughter)
Dialogue: 0,0:13:30.31,0:13:31.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But I was also struck
Dialogue: 0,0:13:31.96,0:13:33.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,by the burdensome nature
Dialogue: 0,0:13:33.77,0:13:36.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of such mutual secrecy.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:36.14,0:13:38.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Depression is so exhausting.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:38.03,0:13:40.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It takes up so much of your time and energy,
Dialogue: 0,0:13:40.79,0:13:42.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and silence about it,
Dialogue: 0,0:13:42.30,0:13:45.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it really does make the depression worse.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:45.03,0:13:46.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And then I began thinking about all the ways
Dialogue: 0,0:13:46.76,0:13:48.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,people make themselves better.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:48.73,0:13:51.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'd started off as a medical conservative.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:51.17,0:13:53.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I thought there were a few\Nkinds of therapy that worked,
Dialogue: 0,0:13:53.54,0:13:55.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it was clear what they were,
Dialogue: 0,0:13:55.90,0:13:56.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,there was medication,
Dialogue: 0,0:13:56.99,0:13:58.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,there were certain psychotherapies,
Dialogue: 0,0:13:58.47,0:14:00.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,there was possibly electro-convulsive treatment,
Dialogue: 0,0:14:00.91,0:14:03.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and that everything else was nonsense.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:03.59,0:14:05.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But then I discovered something.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:05.42,0:14:07.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If you have brain cancer,
Dialogue: 0,0:14:07.17,0:14:08.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and you say that standing on your head
Dialogue: 0,0:14:08.64,0:14:11.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for 20 minutes every morning makes you feel better,
Dialogue: 0,0:14:11.64,0:14:13.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it may make you feel better,
Dialogue: 0,0:14:13.15,0:14:14.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but you still have brain cancer,
Dialogue: 0,0:14:14.74,0:14:17.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and you'll still probably die from it.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:17.03,0:14:19.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But if you say that you have depression,
Dialogue: 0,0:14:19.54,0:14:21.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and standing on your head for 20 minutes every day
Dialogue: 0,0:14:21.65,0:14:24.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,makes you feel better, then it's worked,
Dialogue: 0,0:14:24.13,0:14:26.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because depression is an illness of how you feel,
Dialogue: 0,0:14:26.49,0:14:28.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and if you feel better,
Dialogue: 0,0:14:28.10,0:14:30.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,then you are effectively not depressed anymore.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:30.93,0:14:32.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So I became much more tolerant
Dialogue: 0,0:14:32.96,0:14:35.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the vast world of alternative treatments.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:35.89,0:14:38.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I get letters, I get hundreds of letters
Dialogue: 0,0:14:38.04,0:14:40.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,from people writing to tell me\Nabout what's worked for them.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:40.79,0:14:42.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Someone was asking me backstage today
Dialogue: 0,0:14:42.99,0:14:44.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about meditation.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:44.45,0:14:46.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,My favorite of the letters that I got
Dialogue: 0,0:14:46.92,0:14:48.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,was the one that came from a woman
Dialogue: 0,0:14:48.39,0:14:50.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who wrote and said that she had tried therapy,
Dialogue: 0,0:14:50.48,0:14:51.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,she had tried medication,
Dialogue: 0,0:14:51.44,0:14:52.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,she had tried pretty much everything,
Dialogue: 0,0:14:52.98,0:14:55.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and she had found a solution\Nand hoped I would tell the world,
Dialogue: 0,0:14:55.82,0:14:59.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and that was making little things from yarn.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:59.63,0:15:02.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Laughter)
Dialogue: 0,0:15:02.63,0:15:06.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,She sent me some of them. (Laughter)
Dialogue: 0,0:15:06.16,0:15:09.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I'm not wearing them right now.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:09.84,0:15:12.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I suggested to her that she also should look up
Dialogue: 0,0:15:12.02,0:15:17.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,obsessive compulsive disorder in the DSM.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:17.01,0:15:19.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And yet, when I went to look\Nat alternative treatments,
Dialogue: 0,0:15:19.54,0:15:22.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I also gained perspective on other treatments.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:22.44,0:15:25.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I went through a tribal exorcism in Senegal
Dialogue: 0,0:15:25.35,0:15:27.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that involved a great deal of ram's blood
Dialogue: 0,0:15:27.11,0:15:29.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and that I'm not going to detail right now,
Dialogue: 0,0:15:29.42,0:15:31.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but a few years afterward I was in Rwanda
Dialogue: 0,0:15:31.42,0:15:33.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,working on a different project,
Dialogue: 0,0:15:33.18,0:15:35.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I happened to describe\Nmy experience to someone,
Dialogue: 0,0:15:35.98,0:15:37.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and he said, "Well, you know,
Dialogue: 0,0:15:37.35,0:15:39.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that's West Africa, and we're in East Africa,
Dialogue: 0,0:15:39.56,0:15:41.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and our rituals are in some ways very different,
Dialogue: 0,0:15:41.39,0:15:43.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but we do have some rituals that have something
Dialogue: 0,0:15:43.40,0:15:45.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in common with what you're describing."
Dialogue: 0,0:15:45.39,0:15:47.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I said, "Oh." And he said, "Yes," he said,
Dialogue: 0,0:15:47.05,0:15:49.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"but we've had a lot of trouble with\NWestern mental health workers,
Dialogue: 0,0:15:49.70,0:15:52.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,especially the ones who came\Nright after the genocide."
Dialogue: 0,0:15:52.45,0:15:54.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I said, "What kind of trouble did you have?"
Dialogue: 0,0:15:54.78,0:15:56.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And he said, "Well," he said,
Dialogue: 0,0:15:56.32,0:15:58.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"They would do this bizarre thing."
Dialogue: 0,0:15:58.79,0:16:00.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,He said, "They didn't take people out in the sunshine
Dialogue: 0,0:16:00.87,0:16:02.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,where you begin to feel better.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:02.57,0:16:03.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They didn't include drumming or music
Dialogue: 0,0:16:03.98,0:16:05.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to get people's blood going.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:05.58,0:16:07.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They didn't involve the whole community.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:07.51,0:16:09.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They didn't externalize the depression
Dialogue: 0,0:16:09.28,0:16:10.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as an invasive spirit.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:10.72,0:16:13.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Instead what they did was they took people
Dialogue: 0,0:16:13.35,0:16:15.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,one at a time into dingy little rooms
Dialogue: 0,0:16:15.98,0:16:17.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and had them talk for an hour
Dialogue: 0,0:16:17.32,0:16:19.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about bad things that had happened to them."
Dialogue: 0,0:16:19.55,0:16:25.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Laughter) (Applause)
Dialogue: 0,0:16:25.01,0:16:27.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,He said, "We had to ask them to leave the country."
Dialogue: 0,0:16:27.37,0:16:30.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Laughter)
Dialogue: 0,0:16:30.43,0:16:32.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Now at the other end of alternative treatments,
Dialogue: 0,0:16:32.87,0:16:34.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,let me tell you about Frank Roussekoff.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:34.91,0:16:37.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Frank Roussekoff had the worst depression
Dialogue: 0,0:16:37.96,0:16:40.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,perhaps that I've ever seen in a man.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:40.88,0:16:42.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,He was constantly depressed.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:42.87,0:16:45.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,He was, when I met him, at a point at which
Dialogue: 0,0:16:45.01,0:16:48.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,every month he would have electroshock treatment.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:48.17,0:16:50.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Then he would feel sort of disoriented for a week.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:50.74,0:16:52.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Then he would feel okay for a week.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:52.55,0:16:54.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Then he would have a week of going downhill.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:54.25,0:16:56.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And then he would have another\Nelectroshock treatment.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:56.93,0:16:58.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And he said to me when I met him,
Dialogue: 0,0:16:58.35,0:17:00.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"It's unbearable to go through my weeks this way.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:00.90,0:17:02.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I can't go on this way,
Dialogue: 0,0:17:02.40,0:17:04.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I've figured out how I'm going to end it
Dialogue: 0,0:17:04.58,0:17:06.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,if I don't get better.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:06.23,0:17:08.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But," he said to me, "I heard about a protocol
Dialogue: 0,0:17:08.93,0:17:11.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,at Mass General for a procedure called
Dialogue: 0,0:17:11.16,0:17:13.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a cingulotomy, which is a brain surgery,
Dialogue: 0,0:17:13.18,0:17:15.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I think I'm going to give that a try."
Dialogue: 0,0:17:15.75,0:17:17.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I remember being amazed at that point
Dialogue: 0,0:17:17.71,0:17:19.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to think that someone
Dialogue: 0,0:17:19.01,0:17:22.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who clearly had so many bad experiences
Dialogue: 0,0:17:22.23,0:17:24.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with so many different treatments
Dialogue: 0,0:17:24.09,0:17:27.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,still had buried in him somewhere enough optimism
Dialogue: 0,0:17:27.21,0:17:29.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to reach out for one more.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:29.76,0:17:31.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And he had the a cingulotomy,
Dialogue: 0,0:17:31.94,0:17:33.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and it was incredibly successful.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:33.98,0:17:35.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,He's now a friend of mine.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:35.47,0:17:38.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,He has a lovely wife and two beautiful children.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:38.97,0:17:41.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,He wrote me a letter the Christmas after the surgery,
Dialogue: 0,0:17:41.92,0:17:43.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and he said,
Dialogue: 0,0:17:43.10,0:17:45.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"My father sent me two presents this year,
Dialogue: 0,0:17:45.51,0:17:48.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,First, a motorized CD rack from The Sharper Image
Dialogue: 0,0:17:48.11,0:17:49.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that I didn't really need,
Dialogue: 0,0:17:49.53,0:17:51.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but I knew he was giving it to me to celebrate
Dialogue: 0,0:17:51.23,0:17:53.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the fact that I'm living on my own
Dialogue: 0,0:17:53.36,0:17:55.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and have a job I seem to love.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:55.41,0:17:56.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And the other present
Dialogue: 0,0:17:56.97,0:17:58.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,was a photo of my grandmother,
Dialogue: 0,0:17:58.54,0:18:00.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who committed suicide.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:00.80,0:18:03.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,As I unwrapped it, I began to cry,
Dialogue: 0,0:18:03.73,0:18:05.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and my mother came over and said,
Dialogue: 0,0:18:05.61,0:18:08.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,'Are you crying because of the\Nrelatives you never knew?'
Dialogue: 0,0:18:08.92,0:18:13.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I said, 'She had the same disease I have.'
Dialogue: 0,0:18:13.01,0:18:15.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'm crying now as I write to you.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:15.59,0:18:19.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's not that I'm so sad, but I get overwhelmed,
Dialogue: 0,0:18:19.19,0:18:21.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think, because I could have killed myself,
Dialogue: 0,0:18:21.41,0:18:23.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but my parents kept me going,
Dialogue: 0,0:18:23.11,0:18:24.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and so did the doctors,
Dialogue: 0,0:18:24.86,0:18:26.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I had the surgery.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:26.72,0:18:29.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'm alive and grateful.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:29.53,0:18:31.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We live in the right time,
Dialogue: 0,0:18:31.79,0:18:35.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,even if it doesn't always feel like it."
Dialogue: 0,0:18:35.67,0:18:37.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I was struck by the fact that depression
Dialogue: 0,0:18:37.57,0:18:39.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is broadly perceived to be
Dialogue: 0,0:18:39.29,0:18:42.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a modern, Western, middle class thing,
Dialogue: 0,0:18:42.83,0:18:44.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I went to look at how it operated
Dialogue: 0,0:18:44.98,0:18:46.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in a variety of other contexts,
Dialogue: 0,0:18:46.98,0:18:49.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and one of the things I was most interested in
Dialogue: 0,0:18:49.10,0:18:50.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,was depression among the indigent.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:50.89,0:18:52.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so I went out to try to look at what was
Dialogue: 0,0:18:52.90,0:18:55.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,being done for poor people with depression.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:55.25,0:18:57.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And what I discovered is that poor people
Dialogue: 0,0:18:57.41,0:18:59.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,are mostly not being treated for depression.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:59.97,0:19:02.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Depression is the result of a genetic vulnerability,
Dialogue: 0,0:19:02.89,0:19:06.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which is presumably evenly\Ndistributed in the population,
Dialogue: 0,0:19:06.05,0:19:07.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and triggering circumstances,
Dialogue: 0,0:19:07.100,0:19:09.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which are likely to be more severe
Dialogue: 0,0:19:09.90,0:19:11.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for people who are impoverished.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:11.78,0:19:13.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And yet it turns out that if you have
Dialogue: 0,0:19:13.87,0:19:16.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a really lovely life but feel miserable all the time,
Dialogue: 0,0:19:16.18,0:19:18.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you think, "Why do I feel like this?
Dialogue: 0,0:19:18.34,0:19:20.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I must have depression."
Dialogue: 0,0:19:20.01,0:19:21.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And you set out to find treatment for it.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:21.94,0:19:24.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But if you have a perfectly awful life,
Dialogue: 0,0:19:24.03,0:19:25.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and you feel miserable all the time,
Dialogue: 0,0:19:25.90,0:19:28.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the way you feel is commensurate with your life,
Dialogue: 0,0:19:28.72,0:19:30.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and it doesn't occur to you to think,
Dialogue: 0,0:19:30.45,0:19:32.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"Maybe this is treatable."
Dialogue: 0,0:19:32.23,0:19:35.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so we have an epidemic in this country
Dialogue: 0,0:19:35.36,0:19:38.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of depression among impoverished people
Dialogue: 0,0:19:38.28,0:19:40.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that's not being picked up\Nand that's not being treated
Dialogue: 0,0:19:40.79,0:19:42.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and that's not being addressed,
Dialogue: 0,0:19:42.85,0:19:45.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and it's a tragedy of a grand order.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:45.05,0:19:46.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so I found an academic
Dialogue: 0,0:19:46.53,0:19:48.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who was doing a research project
Dialogue: 0,0:19:48.35,0:19:50.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in slums outside of D.C.,
Dialogue: 0,0:19:50.09,0:19:53.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,where she picked up women who had\Ncome in for other health problems
Dialogue: 0,0:19:53.09,0:19:54.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and diagnosed them with depression,
Dialogue: 0,0:19:54.87,0:19:58.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and then provided six months\Nof experimental protocol.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:58.13,0:20:00.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,One of them, Lolly, came in,
Dialogue: 0,0:20:00.46,0:20:02.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and this is what she said the day she came in.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:02.76,0:20:06.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,She said, and she was a woman, by the way,
Dialogue: 0,0:20:06.16,0:20:08.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who had seven children. She said,
Dialogue: 0,0:20:08.25,0:20:10.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"I used to have a job but I had to give it up because
Dialogue: 0,0:20:10.90,0:20:12.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I couldn't go out of the house.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:12.96,0:20:15.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I have nothing to say to my children.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:15.19,0:20:17.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In the morning, I can't wait for them to leave,
Dialogue: 0,0:20:17.95,0:20:20.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and then I climb in bed and\Npull the covers over my head,
Dialogue: 0,0:20:20.94,0:20:22.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and three o'clock when they come home,
Dialogue: 0,0:20:22.59,0:20:24.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it just comes so fast."
Dialogue: 0,0:20:24.39,0:20:26.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,She said, "I've been taking a lot of Tylenol,
Dialogue: 0,0:20:26.63,0:20:29.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,anything I can take so that I can sleep more.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:29.39,0:20:33.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,My husband has been telling me I'm stupid, I'm ugly.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:33.16,0:20:36.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I wish I could stop the pain."
Dialogue: 0,0:20:36.66,0:20:39.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Well, she was brought into\Nthis experimental protocol,
Dialogue: 0,0:20:39.30,0:20:41.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and when I interviewed her six months later,
Dialogue: 0,0:20:41.61,0:20:46.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,she had taken a job working in child care
Dialogue: 0,0:20:46.02,0:20:49.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for the U.S. Navy, she had left the abusive husband,
Dialogue: 0,0:20:49.82,0:20:51.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and she said to me,
Dialogue: 0,0:20:51.91,0:20:54.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"My kids are so much happier now."
Dialogue: 0,0:20:54.28,0:20:55.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,She said, "There's one room in my new place
Dialogue: 0,0:20:55.93,0:20:58.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for the boys and one room for the girls,
Dialogue: 0,0:20:58.86,0:21:01.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but at night, they're just all up on my bed,
Dialogue: 0,0:21:01.05,0:21:04.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and we're doing homework\Nall together and everything.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:04.01,0:21:05.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,One of them wants to be a preacher,
Dialogue: 0,0:21:05.68,0:21:07.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,one of them wants to be a firefighter,
Dialogue: 0,0:21:07.38,0:21:10.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and one of the girls says she's going to be a lawyer.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:10.35,0:21:12.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They don't cry like they used to,
Dialogue: 0,0:21:12.36,0:21:14.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and they don't fight like they did.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:14.91,0:21:18.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That's all I need now is my kids.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:18.69,0:21:20.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Things keep on changing,
Dialogue: 0,0:21:20.60,0:21:25.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the way I dress, the way I feel, the way I act.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:25.80,0:21:29.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I can go outside not being afraid anymore,
Dialogue: 0,0:21:29.48,0:21:32.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I don't think those bad feelings are coming back,
Dialogue: 0,0:21:32.89,0:21:35.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and if it weren't for Dr. Miranda and that,
Dialogue: 0,0:21:35.93,0:21:39.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I would still be at home with\Nthe covers pulled over my head,
Dialogue: 0,0:21:39.55,0:21:41.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,if I were still alive at all.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:41.90,0:21:45.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I asked the Lord to send me an angel,
Dialogue: 0,0:21:45.63,0:21:49.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and he heard my prayers."
Dialogue: 0,0:21:50.31,0:21:53.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I was really moved by these experiences,
Dialogue: 0,0:21:53.31,0:21:55.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I decided that I wanted to write about them
Dialogue: 0,0:21:55.85,0:21:57.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,not only in a book I was working on,
Dialogue: 0,0:21:57.23,0:21:58.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but also in an article,
Dialogue: 0,0:21:58.62,0:22:00.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and so I got a commission from\N"The New York Times Magazine"
Dialogue: 0,0:22:00.76,0:22:02.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to write about depression among the indigent.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:02.88,0:22:04.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I turned in my story,
Dialogue: 0,0:22:04.49,0:22:06.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and my editor called me and said,
Dialogue: 0,0:22:06.09,0:22:08.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"We really can't publish this."
Dialogue: 0,0:22:08.49,0:22:09.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I said, "Why not?"
Dialogue: 0,0:22:09.41,0:22:11.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And she said, "It just is too far-fetched.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:11.78,0:22:15.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,These people who are sort of at\Nthe very bottom rung of society
Dialogue: 0,0:22:15.63,0:22:17.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and then they get a few months of treatment
Dialogue: 0,0:22:17.34,0:22:19.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and they're virtually ready to run Morgan Stanley?
Dialogue: 0,0:22:19.97,0:22:21.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's just too implausible."
Dialogue: 0,0:22:21.82,0:22:24.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,She said, I've never even heard of anything like it."
Dialogue: 0,0:22:24.03,0:22:26.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I said, "The fact that you've never heard of it
Dialogue: 0,0:22:26.56,0:22:29.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is an indication that it is news."
Dialogue: 0,0:22:29.56,0:22:35.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Laughter) (Applause)
Dialogue: 0,0:22:37.32,0:22:39.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"And you are a news magazine."
Dialogue: 0,0:22:39.81,0:22:41.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So after a certain amount of negotiation,
Dialogue: 0,0:22:41.79,0:22:43.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they agreed to it.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:43.03,0:22:44.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But I think a lot of what they said
Dialogue: 0,0:22:44.65,0:22:46.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,was connected in some strange way
Dialogue: 0,0:22:46.94,0:22:49.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to this distaste that people still have
Dialogue: 0,0:22:49.09,0:22:50.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for the idea of treatment,
Dialogue: 0,0:22:50.55,0:22:52.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the notion that somehow if we went out
Dialogue: 0,0:22:52.43,0:22:55.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and treated a lot of people in indigent communities,
Dialogue: 0,0:22:55.13,0:22:57.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that would be an exploitative thing to do,
Dialogue: 0,0:22:57.02,0:22:58.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because we would be changing them.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:58.67,0:23:00.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There is this false moral imperative
Dialogue: 0,0:23:00.70,0:23:02.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that seems to be all around us
Dialogue: 0,0:23:02.49,0:23:04.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that treatment of depression,
Dialogue: 0,0:23:04.84,0:23:07.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the medications and so on, are an artifice,
Dialogue: 0,0:23:07.14,0:23:09.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and that it's not natural.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:09.31,0:23:12.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I think that's very misguided.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:12.16,0:23:15.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It would be natural for people's teeth to fall out,
Dialogue: 0,0:23:15.70,0:23:19.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but there is nobody militating against toothpaste,
Dialogue: 0,0:23:19.02,0:23:21.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,at least not in my circles.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:21.85,0:23:23.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And people then say, "Well, but isn't depression
Dialogue: 0,0:23:23.66,0:23:25.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,part of what people are supposed to experience?
Dialogue: 0,0:23:25.84,0:23:27.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Didn't we evolve to have depression?
Dialogue: 0,0:23:27.58,0:23:29.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Isn't it part of your personality?"
Dialogue: 0,0:23:29.49,0:23:32.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,To which I would say, mood is adaptive.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:32.23,0:23:35.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Being able to have sadness and fear
Dialogue: 0,0:23:35.56,0:23:37.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and joy and pleasure
Dialogue: 0,0:23:37.40,0:23:39.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and all of the other moods that we have,
Dialogue: 0,0:23:39.21,0:23:41.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that's incredibly valuable.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:41.27,0:23:44.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And major depression is something that happens
Dialogue: 0,0:23:44.32,0:23:46.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,when that system gets broken.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:46.33,0:23:48.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's maladaptive.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:48.05,0:23:49.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,People will come to me and say,
Dialogue: 0,0:23:49.62,0:23:52.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"I think, though, if I just stick it out for another year,
Dialogue: 0,0:23:52.39,0:23:54.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think I can just get through this."
Dialogue: 0,0:23:54.46,0:23:56.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I always say to them, "You may get through it,
Dialogue: 0,0:23:56.77,0:23:59.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but you'll never be 37 again.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:59.48,0:24:02.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Life is short, and that's a whole year
Dialogue: 0,0:24:02.03,0:24:03.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you're talking about giving up.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:03.98,0:24:05.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Think it through."
Dialogue: 0,0:24:05.52,0:24:08.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's a strange poverty of the English language,
Dialogue: 0,0:24:08.37,0:24:10.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and indeed of many other languages,
Dialogue: 0,0:24:10.47,0:24:12.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that we use this same word, "depression,"
Dialogue: 0,0:24:12.69,0:24:14.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to describe how a kid feels
Dialogue: 0,0:24:14.50,0:24:16.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,when it rains on his birthday,
Dialogue: 0,0:24:16.21,0:24:18.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and to describe how somebody feels
Dialogue: 0,0:24:18.74,0:24:21.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the minute before they commit suicide.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:21.19,0:24:24.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,People say to me, "Well, is it\Ncontinuous with normal sadness?"
Dialogue: 0,0:24:24.30,0:24:27.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I say, in a way it's continuous\Nwith normal sadness.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:27.44,0:24:29.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There is a certain amount of continuity,
Dialogue: 0,0:24:29.64,0:24:31.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but it's the same way there's continuity
Dialogue: 0,0:24:31.60,0:24:33.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,between having an iron fence outside your house
Dialogue: 0,0:24:33.58,0:24:35.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that gets a little rust spot
Dialogue: 0,0:24:35.26,0:24:38.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that you have to sort of sand\Noff and do a little repainting,
Dialogue: 0,0:24:38.01,0:24:40.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and what happens if you leave\Nthe house for a hundred years
Dialogue: 0,0:24:40.65,0:24:43.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and it rusts through until it's only a pile
Dialogue: 0,0:24:43.55,0:24:44.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of orange dust.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:44.79,0:24:46.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And it's that orange dust spot,
Dialogue: 0,0:24:46.96,0:24:48.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that orange dust problem,
Dialogue: 0,0:24:48.75,0:24:51.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that's the one we're setting out to address.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:51.74,0:24:53.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So now people say,
Dialogue: 0,0:24:53.98,0:24:56.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"You take these happy pills, and do you feel happy?"
Dialogue: 0,0:24:56.71,0:24:58.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I don't.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:58.59,0:25:01.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But I don't feel sad about having to eat lunch,
Dialogue: 0,0:25:01.42,0:25:04.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I don't feel sad about my answering machine,
Dialogue: 0,0:25:04.25,0:25:07.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I don't feel sad about taking a shower.
Dialogue: 0,0:25:07.10,0:25:09.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I feel more, in fact, I think,
Dialogue: 0,0:25:09.95,0:25:12.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because I can feel sadness without nullity.
Dialogue: 0,0:25:12.38,0:25:16.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I feel sad about professional disappointments,
Dialogue: 0,0:25:16.73,0:25:19.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about damaged relationships,
Dialogue: 0,0:25:19.08,0:25:21.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about global warming.
Dialogue: 0,0:25:21.11,0:25:23.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Those are the things that I feel sad about now.
Dialogue: 0,0:25:23.84,0:25:26.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I said to myself, well, what is the conclusion?
Dialogue: 0,0:25:26.57,0:25:29.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,How did those people who have better lives
Dialogue: 0,0:25:29.13,0:25:31.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,even with bigger depression manage to get through?
Dialogue: 0,0:25:31.69,0:25:34.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What is the mechanism of resilience?
Dialogue: 0,0:25:34.48,0:25:36.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And what I came up with over time
Dialogue: 0,0:25:36.57,0:25:39.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,was that the people who deny their experience,
Dialogue: 0,0:25:39.48,0:25:41.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the ones who say, "I was depressed a long time ago
Dialogue: 0,0:25:41.52,0:25:43.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I never want to think about it again
Dialogue: 0,0:25:43.25,0:25:44.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I'm not going to look at it
Dialogue: 0,0:25:44.50,0:25:46.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I'm just going to get on with my life,"
Dialogue: 0,0:25:46.39,0:25:48.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,ironically, those are the people
Dialogue: 0,0:25:48.34,0:25:51.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who are most enslaved by what they have.
Dialogue: 0,0:25:51.04,0:25:53.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Shutting out the depression strengthens it.
Dialogue: 0,0:25:53.61,0:25:56.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,While you hide from it, it grows.
Dialogue: 0,0:25:56.89,0:25:59.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And the people who do better
Dialogue: 0,0:25:59.75,0:26:02.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,are the ones who are able to tolerate the fact
Dialogue: 0,0:26:02.35,0:26:03.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that they have this condition.
Dialogue: 0,0:26:03.97,0:26:06.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Those who can tolerate their depression
Dialogue: 0,0:26:06.44,0:26:08.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,are the ones who achieve resilience.
Dialogue: 0,0:26:08.22,0:26:10.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So Frank Roussekoff said to me,
Dialogue: 0,0:26:10.00,0:26:11.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"If I had it again to do over,
Dialogue: 0,0:26:11.52,0:26:13.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I suppose I wouldn't do it this way,
Dialogue: 0,0:26:13.66,0:26:15.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but in a strange way, I'm grateful
Dialogue: 0,0:26:15.62,0:26:17.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for what I've experienced.
Dialogue: 0,0:26:17.12,0:26:20.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'm glad to have been in the hospital 40 times.
Dialogue: 0,0:26:20.94,0:26:23.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It taught me so much about love,
Dialogue: 0,0:26:23.54,0:26:26.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and my relationship with my parents and my doctors
Dialogue: 0,0:26:26.38,0:26:30.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,has been so precious to me, and will be always."
Dialogue: 0,0:26:30.77,0:26:32.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And Maggie Robbins said,
Dialogue: 0,0:26:32.70,0:26:35.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"I used to volunteer in an AIDS clinic,
Dialogue: 0,0:26:35.69,0:26:38.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I would just talk and talk and talk,
Dialogue: 0,0:26:38.70,0:26:40.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the people I was dealing with
Dialogue: 0,0:26:40.51,0:26:42.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,weren't very responsive, and I thought,
Dialogue: 0,0:26:42.58,0:26:46.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,'That's not very friendly or helpful of them.'
Dialogue: 0,0:26:46.54,0:26:48.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And then I realized,
Dialogue: 0,0:26:48.18,0:26:50.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I realized that they weren't going to do more
Dialogue: 0,0:26:50.04,0:26:52.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,than make those first few minutes of small talk.
Dialogue: 0,0:26:52.70,0:26:54.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It was simply going to be an occasion
Dialogue: 0,0:26:54.76,0:26:57.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,where I didn't have AIDS and I wasn't dying,
Dialogue: 0,0:26:57.63,0:27:00.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but could tolerate the fact that they did
Dialogue: 0,0:27:00.61,0:27:02.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and they were.
Dialogue: 0,0:27:02.39,0:27:05.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Our needs are our greatest assets.
Dialogue: 0,0:27:05.100,0:27:08.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It turns out I've learned to give
Dialogue: 0,0:27:08.14,0:27:12.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,all the things I need."
Dialogue: 0,0:27:12.16,0:27:13.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Valuing one's depression
Dialogue: 0,0:27:13.85,0:27:16.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,does not prevent a relapse,
Dialogue: 0,0:27:16.04,0:27:18.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but it may make the prospect of relapse
Dialogue: 0,0:27:18.71,0:27:22.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and even relapse itself easier to tolerate.
Dialogue: 0,0:27:22.92,0:27:24.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The question is not so much
Dialogue: 0,0:27:24.97,0:27:27.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of finding great meaning and deciding
Dialogue: 0,0:27:27.14,0:27:29.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,your depression has been very meaningful.
Dialogue: 0,0:27:29.17,0:27:31.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's of seeking that meaning
Dialogue: 0,0:27:31.34,0:27:33.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and thinking, when it comes again,
Dialogue: 0,0:27:33.15,0:27:34.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"This will be hellish,
Dialogue: 0,0:27:34.79,0:27:37.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but I will learn something from it."
Dialogue: 0,0:27:37.49,0:27:39.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I have learned in my own depression
Dialogue: 0,0:27:39.75,0:27:41.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,how big an emotion can be,
Dialogue: 0,0:27:41.76,0:27:44.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,how it can be more real than facts,
Dialogue: 0,0:27:44.86,0:27:47.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I have found that that experience
Dialogue: 0,0:27:47.56,0:27:50.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,has allowed me to experience positive emotion
Dialogue: 0,0:27:50.70,0:27:54.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in a more intense and more focused way.
Dialogue: 0,0:27:54.22,0:27:57.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The opposite of depression is not happiness,
Dialogue: 0,0:27:57.71,0:27:59.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but vitality,
Dialogue: 0,0:27:59.16,0:28:01.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and these days, my life is vital,
Dialogue: 0,0:28:01.90,0:28:04.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,even on the days when I'm sad.
Dialogue: 0,0:28:04.65,0:28:07.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I felt that funeral in my brain,
Dialogue: 0,0:28:07.96,0:28:09.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I sat next to the colossus
Dialogue: 0,0:28:09.99,0:28:12.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,at the edge of the world,
Dialogue: 0,0:28:12.23,0:28:14.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I have discovered
Dialogue: 0,0:28:14.32,0:28:16.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,something inside of myself
Dialogue: 0,0:28:16.17,0:28:18.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that I would have to call a soul
Dialogue: 0,0:28:18.31,0:28:22.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that I had never formulated\Nuntil that day 20 years ago
Dialogue: 0,0:28:22.06,0:28:26.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,when hell came to pay me a surprise visit.
Dialogue: 0,0:28:26.58,0:28:30.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think that while I hated being depressed
Dialogue: 0,0:28:30.68,0:28:33.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and would hate to be depressed again,
Dialogue: 0,0:28:33.01,0:28:35.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I've found a way to love my depression.
Dialogue: 0,0:28:35.76,0:28:37.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I love it because it has forced me
Dialogue: 0,0:28:37.78,0:28:40.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to find and cling to joy.
Dialogue: 0,0:28:40.55,0:28:44.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I love it because each day I decide,
Dialogue: 0,0:28:44.04,0:28:45.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,sometimes gamely,
Dialogue: 0,0:28:45.58,0:28:48.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and sometimes against the moment's reason,
Dialogue: 0,0:28:48.28,0:28:50.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to cleave to the reasons for living.
Dialogue: 0,0:28:50.85,0:28:54.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And that, I think, is a highly privileged rapture.
Dialogue: 0,0:28:54.98,0:28:58.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Thank you.
Dialogue: 0,0:28:58.96,0:29:02.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Applause)