If we just take God out of it
might there not be something
that your scientific beliefs
can't explain?
My name is Matt, 41 years old
I'm a pastor.
I'm Gyokei, 40 years old
I'm a minister of a Buddhist church
I'm Andrew, I'm 42
and I'm a chemist.
I'm Jess, I'm 36 and
I'm a volcanologist.
I'm Don, I'm 64
I'm a paleontologist and geologist.
I'm Amy, I'm 53 and I'm a rabbi.
[producer] I believe this universe
was created.
This is literally my greatest fear
that I'd be all alone in this circle
I believe that this world
was created, I've placed my faith
in a God that is infinitely creative
in what he's made
He then deserves my worship
and my affection.
Seriously, last night I was
talking to my wife
I was like, what if there was a question
that I'm the only one that agrees to
She said just stay where you are
Like I don't know
The big problem is the minute you start
talking about a creator and I battle
creationism most of my entire career
as an evolutionary biologist
and paleontologist.
It brings in a whole category of things
that violate my rules as a scientiest
as well
and when I step back right now
especially when I step back
to where I started as a religious
person when I was younger
I look at this and I say
you know, if anything, what we see now
about the universe shows
how poorly designed it is
how sloppy it is and
how painful it is
and all these things which don't
speak to a very benevolent creator
because if anything it makes him
look bad.
I don't believe in a supernatural God
I'm a re-constructionist Jew
For me I don't rely on a supernatural
creator in order to remain astounded
at the beauty of this world
It's sloppy, it's the world right
We're sloppy, the world is sloppy
But it's also incredibly magical
and worthy of awe
and respect
and that it's here is amazing
that we're here is amazing
I wanna live in relationship to that
amazement.
[producer] Science can answer
moral questions.
I never looked to science to
go like, is murder right or wrong
I look to science to say how many
murders were committed last week
you know, that' s what I want to know
and then say there's a trend
what is the cause of these murders?
and then we use
different tools, I guess is the
best way of putting it
to assess whether or not
we should be murdering people.
Where do those morals come from then?
I think they're innate in humans
All societies have had certain things
that they agree on
regardless of religious background
and so on
we don't require a deity or
any kind of religion
to give us those things,
we come with them as part
of our species
and for me, it's not so much a science
can answer moral questions but
science certainly can guide us
in a lot of ways
especially when moral questions and
conflict with reality we've now
learned it
[producer] there are things that
my beliefs cannot explain.
I've got serious gaps in my faith
that require a supernatural answer
I mean, I can't understand and fathom
the complexities of the universe
all on my own
I'm a Christian
at a church service,
someone had a hurt shoulder
and they said my shoulder hurts
can you pray for my shoulder to get better
I'm gonna be honest with you
I have about 5 percent faith
that's gonna work out
but I prayed for him
I put my hand on his shoulder
and I said, you know,
I want this shoulder to get healed
in Jesus name
and I walked away thinking
Oh no, another disappointed person
who didn't get healed today
Well the next morning,
that person called me
and said
you wouldn't believe it
my shoulder feels 100 percent
better
I still don't have a good answer
to that but I just know
every time I get an answer
or an opportunity to
exercise my faith
in a supernatural way,
I wanna take that opportunity
cause I just don't know what
the answer might be
It could be something terrific.
I totally agree with you.
I liked it when you said
5 percent,
I pretty much feel the same way
But in my hometown in Japan,
we have this kind of service
to sort of console the spirits
in the land
when we chant for like an hour
half an hour maybe
then everybody feels so
peaceful
but then I can't quite
explain, logically
and that's sufficient in that situation.
Science is all about understanding
what we can understand
and in science you're pretty much
not allowed to even consider
the supernatural because it's
beyond testable hypothesis,
it's beyond anything that you can
evaluate in any,
in what we might call,
an objective manner
we are comfortable with the idea
that we do not know something
and we say we do not know something
and that someday we might
find the answer or we may not
There's a lot out there
that we can't explain
that has absolutely nothing to do with
my beliefs
I was raised Catholic and
I'm just as confused now as
I was then, about what's really
going on, you know
there is this small amount of stuff
we can explain,
I don't need to have a belief
about it,
I don't even need to go beyond
that and just decide that
it's magnificent and terrifying
all at the same time
and just kinda leave it at that.
So I think your answer to
the question would have been yes,
I mean, cause I think you might agree
that there's stuff that you
can't even know to test yet
so, maybe there's something beyond
scientific theory and proof that we
don't even know yet.
And I'm not saying God
If we just take God out of it,
might there not be something
that your scientific beliefs can't explain
That's right, certainly
but
it also, in my philosophy,
I don't see any point in putting
in any kind of supernatural label on it
as an explanation,
it's just not solving the problem.
[producer] I believe in life after death.
Well I'm so glad you're with me
Cause I didn't want to be here all by myself
I mean I just see purpose for our lives
that extends beyond the here and now
there's an eternity that God wants
to have with us
his love for us is so deep
that it desires to have a
continued relationship with us
as far as time goes on.
Because I lived in Long Beach
I go down to the beach and I see
the waves in the ocean
at the beach they come ashore
then they leave
we compare that to life
we take different shapes and
different forms
and the length of the wave
we have no idea
you show up in different locations
which you have no control
the idea that we
this momentary shape that we have
this life, and trying to preserve it
we kind of miss the whole point
that we are actually that greater
oceans.
In my limited capacity
as an individual human,
like in this form, in this shape
I have no idea, how could I possibly
have any idea on what that
being an ocean is gonna mean
or be
so I know that I will continue
to be part of the universe
but not as me
not as this
I would agree with that
I mean, I see no evidence from anything
that I can observe, or anything that
goes on that's more than just wishful
thinking that humans in some
form can exist in some afterlife
where they'r recognizable and
their identities carry on.
When I was a kid
I asked my dad
If our pets would be waiting for us
in heaven when we died
and my dad said no
and I was shocked
and I was like why would there
not be pets in heaven
and my dad's like
well there are animals
and i'm like why not my animals?
and he's like they're just like
a generic cat and a generic dog
and I went, wait what?
At that point, I started to question
wait a minute, what happens next?
And I'm kind of with a lot of you
guys here
and just saying that look
you know
wouldn't it be great if we could go on
and on and on but I think
because we don't see any evidence for it
I have to be in the camp of
well we get this one shot
make the most of it
do the best you can
and then when it's done
you know
don't have any regrets
live with doing as much as you could
that is good
so that you will live on
in the memories of those who
stay behind.
I'm so sorry your dad told you
your dog's not going to heaven
What a crushing thing to hear as a child
All good dogs go to heaven
That's what the movies said
It must be true.
I think he was trying to like
let me down gently
but I don't know
Like some days, I'm like totally zen
I'm totally like totally there
Like it's okay
It's all one and I will just not exist
I'm usually not as afraid of death
as I am of dying
I'm afraid of dying
Like I've seen some really bad dying
I'm very afraid of pain and
of the process of dying but
I lost both my parents from cancer
So i've witnessed both processes
My mum died
Over 30 years ago and it was
It was painful to witness that
how my mum's health kind of deteriorated
And my dad
went through the same process
but then he was writing letters
and it just really coincides with
Buddhist teachings that I'm
having a wonderful day and I'm really
grateful for everybody who supports us
We have a saying that,
every day is as you say, the greatest day
I can see that, you know,
intelectually I can understand it
but I just wasn't sure if I could
feel, if I would be able to say something
like that.
[producer] It's important to question
one's own beliefs.
Man I'm such a skeptic
and that includes questioning
my own beliefs
especially if I form a hypothesis
and I'm working on an experiment
I mean you always kinda want it to go
a certain way and you have to
do your best to remove that
bias and a lot of times
if you're in research
it just doesn't work.
One of the things I tell students
cause I work with students a lot
with my non-profit organization
and I tell them
as they're journeying to becoming scientists
and they come from all sorts of
different backgrounds
I just say
look, don't ever work with anyone
who's afraid to admit that they don't know
something or that they're wrong
like those are really important qualities
whether it's in science
or any aspect of life.
The whole fun in being a scientist
is trying to break things
and I actually wanted to start a journal
of scientific mistakes
so that we could
share with each other what went wrong
because too often we only talk about
the successes
and I think it's very valuable
to also know what failure is
and what it teaches us.
Questioning is such a healthy thing
I always think it's a healthy thing
So whenever I see younger
monastics or priests
like yeah, go ahead and question
question me or question what you do
and then be okay
and you need to understand
understand intellectually
but at the same time,
I want you to understand there are things
that's beyond this
intellectual understanding.
So that's an unrecognizable part of
understanding that comes
only through experience.
Nice meeting you!
Hey guys, this is John
and I'm Kendra
thank you so much for watching
this episode of Middle Ground
make sure to let us know what you think
in the comments below
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