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If we just take God out of it

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might there not be something

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that your scientific beliefs

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can't explain?

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My name is Matt, 41 years old

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I'm a pastor.

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I'm Gyokei, 40 years old

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I'm a minister of a Buddhist church

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I'm Andrew, I'm 42

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and I'm a chemist.

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I'm Jess, I'm 36 and

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I'm a volcanologist.

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I'm Don, I'm 64

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I'm a paleontologist and geologist.

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I'm Amy, I'm 53 and I'm a rabbi.

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[producer] I believe this universe

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was created.

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This is literally my greatest fear

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that I'd be all alone in this circle

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I believe that this world

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was created, I've placed my faith

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in a God that is infinitely creative

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in what he's made

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He then deserves my worship

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and my affection.

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Seriously, last night I was

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talking to my wife

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I was like, what if there was a question

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that I'm the only one that agrees to

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She said just stay where you are

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Like I don't know

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The big problem is the minute you start

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talking about a creator and I battle

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creationism most of my entire career

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as an evolutionary biologist

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and paleontologist.

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It brings in a whole category of things

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that violate my rules as a scientiest

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as well

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and when I step back right now

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especially when I step back

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to where I started as a religious

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person when I was younger

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I look at this and I say

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you know, if anything, what we see now

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about the universe shows

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how poorly designed it is

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how sloppy it is and

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how painful it is

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and all these things which don't

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speak to a very benevolent creator

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because if anything it makes him

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look bad.

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I don't believe in a supernatural God

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I'm a re-constructionist Jew

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For me I don't rely on a supernatural

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creator in order to remain astounded

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at the beauty of this world

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It's sloppy, it's the world right

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We're sloppy, the world is sloppy

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But it's also incredibly magical

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and worthy of awe

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and respect

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and that it's here is amazing

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that we're here is amazing

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I wanna live in relationship to that

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amazement.

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[producer] Science can answer

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moral questions.

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I never looked to science to

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go like, is murder right or wrong

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I look to science to say how many

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murders were committed last week

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you know, that' s what I want to know

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and then say there's a trend

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what is the cause of these murders?

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and then we use

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different tools, I guess is the

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best way of putting it

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to assess whether or not

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we should be murdering people.

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Where do those morals come from then?

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I think they're innate in humans

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All societies have had certain things

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that they agree on

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regardless of religious background

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and so on

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we don't require a deity or

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any kind of religion

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to give us those things,

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we come with them as part

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of our species

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and for me, it's not so much a science

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can answer moral questions but

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science certainly can guide us

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in a lot of ways

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especially when moral questions and

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conflict with reality we've now

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learned it

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[producer] there are things that

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my beliefs cannot explain.

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I've got serious gaps in my faith

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that require a supernatural answer

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I mean, I can't understand and fathom

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the complexities of the universe

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all on my own

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I'm a Christian

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at a church service,

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someone had a hurt shoulder

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and they said my shoulder hurts

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can you pray for my shoulder to get better

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I'm gonna be honest with you

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I have about 5 percent faith

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that's gonna work out

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but I prayed for him

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I put my hand on his shoulder

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and I said, you know,

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I want this shoulder to get healed

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in Jesus name

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and I walked away thinking

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Oh no, another disappointed person

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who didn't get healed today

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Well the next morning,

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that person called me

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and said

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you wouldn't believe it

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my shoulder feels 100 percent

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better

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I still don't have a good answer

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to that but I just know

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every time I get an answer

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or an opportunity to

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exercise my faith

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in a supernatural way,

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I wanna take that opportunity

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cause I just don't know what

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the answer might be

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It could be something terrific.

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I totally agree with you.

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I liked it when you said

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5 percent,

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I pretty much feel the same way

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But in my hometown in Japan,

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we have this kind of service

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to sort of console the spirits

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in the land

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when we chant for like an hour

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half an hour maybe

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then everybody feels so

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peaceful

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but then I can't quite

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explain, logically

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and that's sufficient in that situation.

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Science is all about understanding

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what we can understand

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and in science you're pretty much

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not allowed to even consider

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the supernatural because it's

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beyond testable hypothesis,

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it's beyond anything that you can

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evaluate in any,

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in what we might call,

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an objective manner

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we are comfortable with the idea

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that we do not know something

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and we say we do not know something

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and that someday we might

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find the answer or we may not

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There's a lot out there

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that we can't explain

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that has absolutely nothing to do with

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my beliefs

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I was raised Catholic and

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I'm just as confused now as

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I was then, about what's really

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going on, you know

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there is this small amount of stuff

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we can explain,

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I don't need to have a belief

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about it,

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I don't even need to go beyond

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that and just decide that

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it's magnificent and terrifying

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all at the same time

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and just kinda leave it at that.

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So I think your answer to

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the question would have been yes,

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I mean, cause I think you might agree

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that there's stuff that you

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can't even know to test yet

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so, maybe there's something beyond

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scientific theory and proof that we

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don't even know yet.

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And I'm not saying God

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If we just take God out of it,

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might there not be something

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that your scientific beliefs can't explain

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That's right, certainly

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but

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it also, in my philosophy,

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I don't see any point in putting

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in any kind of supernatural label on it

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as an explanation,

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it's just not solving the problem.

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[producer] I believe in life after death.

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Well I'm so glad you're with me

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Cause I didn't want to be here all by myself

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I mean I just see purpose for our lives

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that extends beyond the here and now

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there's an eternity that God wants

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to have with us

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his love for us is so deep

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that it desires to have a

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continued relationship with us

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as far as time goes on.

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Because I lived in Long Beach

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I go down to the beach and I see

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the waves in the ocean

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at the beach they come ashore

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then they leave

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we compare that to life

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we take different shapes and

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different forms

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and the length of the wave

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we have no idea

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you show up in different locations

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which you have no control

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the idea that we

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this momentary shape that we have

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this life, and trying to preserve it

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we kind of miss the whole point

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that we are actually that greater

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oceans.

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In my limited capacity

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as an individual human,

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like in this form, in this shape

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I have no idea, how could I possibly

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have any idea on what that

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being an ocean is gonna mean

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or be

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so I know that I will continue

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to be part of the universe

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but not as me

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not as this

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I would agree with that

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I mean, I see no evidence from anything

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that I can observe, or anything that

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goes on that's more than just wishful

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thinking that humans in some

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form can exist in some afterlife

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where they'r recognizable and

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their identities carry on.

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When I was a kid

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I asked my dad

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If our pets would be waiting for us

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in heaven when we died

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and my dad said no

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and I was shocked

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and I was like why would there

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not be pets in heaven

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and my dad's like

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well there are animals

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and i'm like why not my animals?

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and he's like they're just like

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a generic cat and a generic dog

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and I went, wait what?

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At that point, I started to question

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wait a minute, what happens next?

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And I'm kind of with a lot of you

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guys here

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and just saying that look

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you know

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wouldn't it be great if we could go on

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and on and on but I think

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because we don't see any evidence for it

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I have to be in the camp of

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well we get this one shot

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make the most of it

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do the best you can

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and then when it's done

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you know

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don't have any regrets

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live with doing as much as you could

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that is good

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so that you will live on

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in the memories of those who

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stay behind.

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I'm so sorry your dad told you

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your dog's not going to heaven

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What a crushing thing to hear as a child

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All good dogs go to heaven

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That's what the movies said

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It must be true.

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I think he was trying to like

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let me down gently

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but I don't know

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Like some days, I'm like totally zen

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I'm totally like totally there

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Like it's okay

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It's all one and I will just not exist

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I'm usually not as afraid of death

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as I am of dying

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I'm afraid of dying

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Like I've seen some really bad dying

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I'm very afraid of pain and

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of the process of dying but

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I lost both my parents from cancer

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So i've witnessed both processes

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My mum died

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Over 30 years ago and it was

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It was painful to witness that

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how my mum's health kind of deteriorated

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And my dad

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went through the same process

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but then he was writing letters

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and it just really coincides with

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Buddhist teachings that I'm

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having a wonderful day and I'm really

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grateful for everybody who supports us

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We have a saying that,

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every day is as you say, the greatest day

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I can see that, you know,

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intelectually I can understand it

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but I just wasn't sure if I could

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feel, if I would be able to say something

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like that.

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[producer] It's important to question

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one's own beliefs.

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Man I'm such a skeptic

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and that includes questioning

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my own beliefs

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especially if I form a hypothesis

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and I'm working on an experiment

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I mean you always kinda want it to go

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a certain way and you have to

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do your best to remove that

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bias and a lot of times

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if you're in research

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it just doesn't work.

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One of the things I tell students

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cause I work with students a lot

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with my non-profit organization

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and I tell them

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as they're journeying to becoming scientists

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and they come from all sorts of

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different backgrounds

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I just say

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look, don't ever work with anyone

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00:11:12,391 --> 00:11:13,836
who's afraid to admit that they don't know

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something or that they're wrong

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00:11:15,417 --> 00:11:17,177
like those are really important qualities

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whether it's in science

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00:11:18,049 --> 00:11:19,576
or any aspect of life.

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The whole fun in being a scientist

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is trying to break things

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and I actually wanted to start a journal

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of scientific mistakes

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so that we could

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share with each other what went wrong

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because too often we only talk about

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the successes

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00:11:31,574 --> 00:11:32,956
and I think it's very valuable

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00:11:32,956 --> 00:11:34,718
to also know what failure is

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and what it teaches us.

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Questioning is such a healthy thing

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I always think it's a healthy thing

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So whenever I see younger

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monastics or priests

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like yeah, go ahead and question

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question me or question what you do

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and then be okay

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and you need to understand

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understand intellectually

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but at the same time,

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I want you to understand there are things

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that's beyond this

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intellectual understanding.

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So that's an unrecognizable part of

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understanding that comes

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only through experience.

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Nice meeting you!

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Hey guys, this is John

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and I'm Kendra

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thank you so much for watching

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this episode of Middle Ground

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make sure to let us know what you think

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00:12:23,426 --> 00:12:24,896
in the comments below

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00:12:24,896 --> 00:12:25,998
and as always

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00:12:25,998 --> 00:12:28,130
please be sure to click subscribe

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00:12:28,130 --> 00:12:30,147
and watch more of our stuff

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We'll see you next time.