0:00:00.000,0:00:02.043 If we just take God out of it 0:00:02.463,0:00:04.111 might there not be something 0:00:04.111,0:00:06.222 that your scientific beliefs 0:00:06.222,0:00:07.875 can't explain? 0:00:22.839,0:00:24.945 My name is Matt, 41 years old 0:00:24.945,0:00:26.362 I'm a pastor. 0:00:26.362,0:00:29.930 I'm Gyokei, 40 years old 0:00:29.930,0:00:33.005 I'm a minister of a Buddhist church 0:00:33.005,0:00:34.719 I'm Andrew, I'm 42 0:00:34.719,0:00:36.512 and I'm a chemist. 0:00:36.512,0:00:38.312 I'm Jess, I'm 36 and 0:00:38.312,0:00:40.400 I'm a volcanologist. 0:00:40.400,0:00:41.979 I'm Don, I'm 64 0:00:41.979,0:00:44.462 I'm a paleontologist and geologist. 0:00:44.462,0:00:49.160 I'm Amy, I'm 53 and I'm a rabbi. 0:00:51.526,0:00:53.186 [producer] I believe this universe 0:00:53.186,0:00:54.853 was created. 0:01:01.479,0:01:03.184 This is literally my greatest fear 0:01:03.184,0:01:05.267 that I'd be all alone in this circle 0:01:06.656,0:01:08.916 I believe that this world 0:01:08.916,0:01:12.075 was created, I've placed my faith 0:01:12.393,0:01:16.653 in a God that is infinitely creative 0:01:16.653,0:01:17.971 in what he's made 0:01:17.971,0:01:20.260 He then deserves my worship 0:01:20.260,0:01:21.620 and my affection. 0:01:21.620,0:01:22.914 Seriously, last night I was 0:01:22.914,0:01:23.790 talking to my wife 0:01:23.790,0:01:25.702 I was like, what if there was a question 0:01:25.702,0:01:27.459 that I'm the only one that agrees to 0:01:27.459,0:01:27.883 She said just stay where you are 0:01:27.883,0:01:29.173 Like I don't know 0:01:29.173,0:01:31.100 The big problem is the minute you start 0:01:31.100,0:01:32.830 talking about a creator and I battle 0:01:32.830,0:01:34.686 creationism most of my entire career 0:01:34.686,0:01:36.080 as an evolutionary biologist 0:01:36.080,0:01:37.010 and paleontologist. 0:01:37.010,0:01:39.164 It brings in a whole category of things 0:01:39.164,0:01:41.135 that violate my rules as a scientiest 0:01:41.135,0:01:42.220 as well 0:01:42.220,0:01:44.670 and when I step back right now 0:01:44.670,0:01:45.970 especially when I step back 0:01:45.970,0:01:47.550 to where I started as a religious 0:01:47.550,0:01:48.791 person when I was younger 0:01:48.791,0:01:49.940 I look at this and I say 0:01:49.940,0:01:51.884 you know, if anything, what we see now 0:01:51.884,0:01:53.080 about the universe shows 0:01:53.080,0:01:54.441 how poorly designed it is 0:01:54.441,0:01:55.751 how sloppy it is and 0:01:55.751,0:01:57.501 how painful it is 0:01:57.501,0:01:58.748 and all these things which don't 0:01:58.748,0:02:00.845 speak to a very benevolent creator 0:02:00.845,0:02:02.000 because if anything it makes him 0:02:02.000,0:02:02.558 look bad. 0:02:03.420,0:02:05.170 I don't believe in a supernatural God 0:02:05.294,0:02:06.864 I'm a re-constructionist Jew 0:02:07.159,0:02:09.551 For me I don't rely on a supernatural 0:02:09.551,0:02:13.519 creator in order to remain astounded 0:02:13.519,0:02:16.006 at the beauty of this world 0:02:16.006,0:02:18.785 It's sloppy, it's the world right 0:02:18.785,0:02:21.011 We're sloppy, the world is sloppy 0:02:21.011,0:02:23.771 But it's also incredibly magical 0:02:23.771,0:02:27.361 and worthy of awe 0:02:27.361,0:02:29.600 and respect 0:02:29.600,0:02:32.388 and that it's here is amazing 0:02:32.388,0:02:33.891 that we're here is amazing 0:02:33.891,0:02:36.368 I wanna live in relationship to that 0:02:36.368,0:02:37.489 amazement. 0:02:39.037,0:02:41.153 [producer] Science can answer 0:02:41.153,0:02:42.931 moral questions. 0:02:49.030,0:02:50.615 I never looked to science to 0:02:50.615,0:02:52.679 go like, is murder right or wrong 0:02:52.679,0:02:53.779 I look to science to say how many 0:02:53.779,0:02:55.787 murders were committed last week 0:02:55.787,0:02:57.422 you know, that' s what I want to know 0:02:57.422,0:02:59.179 and then say there's a trend 0:02:59.179,0:03:00.480 what is the cause of these murders? 0:03:00.480,0:03:02.207 and then we use 0:03:02.207,0:03:04.667 different tools, I guess is the 0:03:04.667,0:03:05.771 best way of putting it 0:03:05.771,0:03:07.467 to assess whether or not 0:03:07.467,0:03:09.034 we should be murdering people. 0:03:09.640,0:03:11.532 Where do those morals come from then? 0:03:11.589,0:03:13.207 I think they're innate in humans 0:03:13.207,0:03:14.967 All societies have had certain things 0:03:14.967,0:03:16.108 that they agree on 0:03:16.108,0:03:17.742 regardless of religious background 0:03:17.742,0:03:18.447 and so on 0:03:18.447,0:03:19.802 we don't require a deity or 0:03:19.802,0:03:21.102 any kind of religion 0:03:21.102,0:03:22.280 to give us those things, 0:03:22.280,0:03:23.537 we come with them as part 0:03:23.537,0:03:24.317 of our species 0:03:24.317,0:03:26.150 and for me, it's not so much a science 0:03:26.150,0:03:27.776 can answer moral questions but 0:03:27.776,0:03:29.387 science certainly can guide us 0:03:29.387,0:03:30.437 in a lot of ways 0:03:30.437,0:03:32.119 especially when moral questions and 0:03:32.119,0:03:33.613 conflict with reality we've now 0:03:33.613,0:03:34.718 learned it 0:03:35.334,0:03:36.883 [producer] there are things that 0:03:36.883,0:03:38.581 my beliefs cannot explain. 0:03:46.254,0:03:49.204 I've got serious gaps in my faith 0:03:49.204,0:03:52.430 that require a supernatural answer 0:03:52.430,0:03:56.128 I mean, I can't understand and fathom 0:03:56.128,0:03:58.272 the complexities of the universe 0:03:58.272,0:03:59.533 all on my own 0:03:59.533,0:04:00.562 I'm a Christian 0:04:00.562,0:04:01.773 at a church service, 0:04:01.773,0:04:03.089 someone had a hurt shoulder 0:04:03.089,0:04:04.574 and they said my shoulder hurts 0:04:04.574,0:04:06.615 can you pray for my shoulder to get better 0:04:06.615,0:04:07.994 I'm gonna be honest with you 0:04:07.994,0:04:09.402 I have about 5 percent faith 0:04:09.402,0:04:10.481 that's gonna work out 0:04:10.481,0:04:12.385 but I prayed for him 0:04:12.385,0:04:13.905 I put my hand on his shoulder 0:04:13.905,0:04:15.238 and I said, you know, 0:04:15.238,0:04:16.880 I want this shoulder to get healed 0:04:16.880,0:04:17.845 in Jesus name 0:04:17.845,0:04:19.138 and I walked away thinking 0:04:19.138,0:04:20.784 Oh no, another disappointed person 0:04:20.784,0:04:22.287 who didn't get healed today 0:04:22.287,0:04:23.343 Well the next morning, 0:04:23.343,0:04:24.363 that person called me 0:04:24.363,0:04:25.083 and said 0:04:25.083,0:04:26.198 you wouldn't believe it 0:04:26.198,0:04:27.648 my shoulder feels 100 percent 0:04:27.648,0:04:28.267 better 0:04:28.267,0:04:29.407 I still don't have a good answer 0:04:29.407,0:04:30.348 to that but I just know 0:04:30.348,0:04:31.702 every time I get an answer 0:04:31.702,0:04:33.123 or an opportunity to 0:04:33.123,0:04:35.213 exercise my faith 0:04:35.213,0:04:36.353 in a supernatural way, 0:04:36.353,0:04:37.657 I wanna take that opportunity 0:04:37.657,0:04:38.821 cause I just don't know what 0:04:38.821,0:04:39.557 the answer might be 0:04:39.557,0:04:41.128 It could be something terrific. 0:04:41.466,0:04:41.716 I totally agree with you. 0:04:42.550,0:04:42.800 I liked it when you said 0:04:43.513,0:04:44.552 5 percent, 0:04:44.552,0:04:46.094 I pretty much feel the same way 0:04:46.094,0:04:48.133 But in my hometown in Japan, 0:04:48.133,0:04:49.845 we have this kind of service 0:04:49.845,0:04:51.837 to sort of console the spirits 0:04:51.837,0:04:53.230 in the land 0:04:53.230,0:04:55.628 when we chant for like an hour 0:04:55.628,0:04:57.135 half an hour maybe 0:04:57.135,0:04:58.942 then everybody feels so 0:04:58.942,0:05:00.691 peaceful 0:05:00.691,0:05:02.130 but then I can't quite 0:05:02.130,0:05:04.784 explain, logically 0:05:04.784,0:05:08.354 and that's sufficient in that situation. 0:05:10.497,0:05:12.614 Science is all about understanding 0:05:12.614,0:05:14.307 what we can understand 0:05:14.307,0:05:15.557 and in science you're pretty much 0:05:15.557,0:05:17.006 not allowed to even consider 0:05:17.006,0:05:18.629 the supernatural because it's 0:05:18.629,0:05:20.098 beyond testable hypothesis, 0:05:20.098,0:05:21.770 it's beyond anything that you can 0:05:21.770,0:05:23.288 evaluate in any, 0:05:23.288,0:05:24.478 in what we might call, 0:05:24.478,0:05:26.073 an objective manner 0:05:26.073,0:05:27.573 we are comfortable with the idea 0:05:27.573,0:05:29.072 that we do not know something 0:05:29.072,0:05:30.278 and we say we do not know something 0:05:30.278,0:05:31.545 and that someday we might 0:05:31.545,0:05:32.989 find the answer or we may not 0:05:32.989,0:05:33.982 There's a lot out there 0:05:33.982,0:05:35.321 that we can't explain 0:05:35.321,0:05:36.440 that has absolutely nothing to do with 0:05:36.440,0:05:37.750 my beliefs 0:05:37.750,0:05:39.478 I was raised Catholic and 0:05:39.478,0:05:41.007 I'm just as confused now as 0:05:41.007,0:05:42.781 I was then, about what's really 0:05:42.781,0:05:43.974 going on, you know 0:05:43.974,0:05:45.834 there is this small amount of stuff 0:05:45.834,0:05:47.281 we can explain, 0:05:47.281,0:05:48.324 I don't need to have a belief 0:05:48.324,0:05:48.857 about it, 0:05:48.857,0:05:49.622 I don't even need to go beyond 0:05:49.622,0:05:51.530 that and just decide that 0:05:51.530,0:05:53.810 it's magnificent and terrifying 0:05:53.810,0:05:54.945 all at the same time 0:05:54.945,0:05:56.662 and just kinda leave it at that. 0:05:56.662,0:05:58.027 So I think your answer to 0:05:58.027,0:05:59.908 the question would have been yes, 0:05:59.908,0:06:02.419 I mean, cause I think you might agree 0:06:02.419,0:06:04.717 that there's stuff that you 0:06:04.717,0:06:07.880 can't even know to test yet 0:06:07.880,0:06:09.910 so, maybe there's something beyond 0:06:09.910,0:06:11.358 scientific theory and proof that we 0:06:11.358,0:06:12.338 don't even know yet. 0:06:12.338,0:06:13.757 And I'm not saying God 0:06:13.757,0:06:15.919 If we just take God out of it, 0:06:15.919,0:06:17.530 might there not be something 0:06:17.530,0:06:20.807 that your scientific beliefs can't explain 0:06:20.807,0:06:21.775 That's right, certainly 0:06:21.775,0:06:22.499 but 0:06:22.499,0:06:23.280 it also, in my philosophy, 0:06:23.280,0:06:24.648 I don't see any point in putting 0:06:24.648,0:06:26.477 in any kind of supernatural label on it 0:06:26.477,0:06:27.921 as an explanation, 0:06:27.921,0:06:29.686 it's just not solving the problem. 0:06:30.786,0:06:32.849 [producer] I believe in life after death. 0:06:41.774,0:06:42.846 Well I'm so glad you're with me 0:06:42.846,0:06:44.397 Cause I didn't want to be here all by myself 0:06:46.207,0:06:49.672 I mean I just see purpose for our lives 0:06:49.672,0:06:52.560 that extends beyond the here and now 0:06:52.560,0:06:55.207 there's an eternity that God wants 0:06:55.207,0:06:56.718 to have with us 0:06:56.718,0:06:58.316 his love for us is so deep 0:06:58.316,0:07:00.118 that it desires to have a 0:07:00.118,0:07:02.336 continued relationship with us 0:07:02.336,0:07:05.031 as far as time goes on. 0:07:05.726,0:07:07.250 Because I lived in Long Beach 0:07:07.250,0:07:08.701 I go down to the beach and I see 0:07:08.701,0:07:10.435 the waves in the ocean 0:07:10.435,0:07:14.722 at the beach they come ashore 0:07:14.722,0:07:16.012 then they leave 0:07:16.012,0:07:17.401 we compare that to life 0:07:17.401,0:07:18.512 we take different shapes and 0:07:18.512,0:07:20.102 different forms 0:07:20.102,0:07:21.432 and the length of the wave 0:07:21.432,0:07:22.715 we have no idea 0:07:22.715,0:07:24.534 you show up in different locations 0:07:24.534,0:07:26.032 which you have no control 0:07:26.032,0:07:27.322 the idea that we 0:07:27.322,0:07:29.431 this momentary shape that we have 0:07:29.431,0:07:33.112 this life, and trying to preserve it 0:07:33.112,0:07:36.410 we kind of miss the whole point 0:07:36.410,0:07:38.173 that we are actually that greater 0:07:38.173,0:07:39.667 oceans. 0:07:40.325,0:07:41.493 In my limited capacity 0:07:41.493,0:07:43.221 as an individual human, 0:07:43.221,0:07:45.362 like in this form, in this shape 0:07:45.362,0:07:47.312 I have no idea, how could I possibly 0:07:47.312,0:07:49.031 have any idea on what that 0:07:49.031,0:07:50.959 being an ocean is gonna mean 0:07:50.959,0:07:52.552 or be 0:07:52.552,0:07:55.542 so I know that I will continue 0:07:55.542,0:07:57.351 to be part of the universe 0:07:57.351,0:07:59.470 but not as me 0:07:59.470,0:08:01.043 not as this 0:08:02.316,0:08:03.422 I would agree with that 0:08:03.422,0:08:05.473 I mean, I see no evidence from anything 0:08:05.473,0:08:07.227 that I can observe, or anything that 0:08:07.227,0:08:09.625 goes on that's more than just wishful 0:08:09.625,0:08:11.442 thinking that humans in some 0:08:11.442,0:08:13.600 form can exist in some afterlife 0:08:13.600,0:08:15.171 where they'r recognizable and 0:08:15.171,0:08:16.757 their identities carry on. 0:08:16.948,0:08:18.073 When I was a kid 0:08:18.073,0:08:20.060 I asked my dad 0:08:20.060,0:08:21.804 If our pets would be waiting for us 0:08:21.804,0:08:23.601 in heaven when we died 0:08:23.601,0:08:25.042 and my dad said no 0:08:25.042,0:08:26.533 and I was shocked 0:08:26.533,0:08:27.620 and I was like why would there 0:08:27.620,0:08:29.004 not be pets in heaven 0:08:29.004,0:08:29.732 and my dad's like 0:08:29.732,0:08:30.869 well there are animals 0:08:30.869,0:08:32.052 and i'm like why not my animals? 0:08:32.052,0:08:32.913 and he's like they're just like 0:08:32.913,0:08:35.245 a generic cat and a generic dog 0:08:35.245,0:08:37.422 and I went, wait what? 0:08:37.422,0:08:39.250 At that point, I started to question 0:08:39.250,0:08:40.861 wait a minute, what happens next? 0:08:40.861,0:08:44.205 And I'm kind of with a lot of you 0:08:44.205,0:08:44.973 guys here 0:08:44.973,0:08:45.815 and just saying that look 0:08:45.815,0:08:46.552 you know 0:08:46.552,0:08:47.981 wouldn't it be great if we could go on 0:08:47.981,0:08:49.024 and on and on but I think 0:08:49.024,0:08:50.291 because we don't see any evidence for it 0:08:50.291,0:08:51.622 I have to be in the camp of 0:08:51.622,0:08:52.983 well we get this one shot 0:08:52.983,0:08:53.824 make the most of it 0:08:53.824,0:08:55.062 do the best you can 0:08:55.062,0:08:55.893 and then when it's done 0:08:55.893,0:08:56.574 you know 0:08:56.574,0:08:56.921 don't have any regrets 0:08:56.921,0:08:59.710 live with doing as much as you could 0:08:59.710,0:09:00.630 that is good 0:09:00.630,0:09:01.399 so that you will live on 0:09:01.399,0:09:02.628 in the memories of those who 0:09:02.628,0:09:04.112 stay behind. 0:09:04.415,0:09:05.689 I'm so sorry your dad told you 0:09:05.689,0:09:06.952 your dog's not going to heaven 0:09:06.952,0:09:09.827 What a crushing thing to hear as a child 0:09:09.827,0:09:12.432 All good dogs go to heaven 0:09:12.432,0:09:13.619 That's what the movies said 0:09:13.619,0:09:15.451 It must be true. 0:09:15.451,0:09:16.540 I think he was trying to like 0:09:16.540,0:09:17.582 let me down gently 0:09:17.582,0:09:18.776 but I don't know 0:09:19.002,0:09:21.407 Like some days, I'm like totally zen 0:09:21.407,0:09:22.865 I'm totally like totally there 0:09:22.865,0:09:23.812 Like it's okay 0:09:23.812,0:09:26.108 It's all one and I will just not exist 0:09:26.108,0:09:27.502 I'm usually not as afraid of death 0:09:27.502,0:09:29.658 as I am of dying 0:09:29.658,0:09:31.616 I'm afraid of dying 0:09:31.616,0:09:34.867 Like I've seen some really bad dying 0:09:34.867,0:09:36.691 I'm very afraid of pain and 0:09:36.691,0:09:38.714 of the process of dying but 0:09:38.714,0:09:42.392 I lost both my parents from cancer 0:09:42.392,0:09:44.311 So i've witnessed both processes 0:09:44.311,0:09:46.013 My mum died 0:09:46.013,0:09:51.967 Over 30 years ago and it was 0:09:51.967,0:09:55.264 It was painful to witness that 0:09:55.264,0:09:58.522 how my mum's health kind of deteriorated 0:09:58.522,0:10:00.082 And my dad 0:10:00.082,0:10:02.113 went through the same process 0:10:02.113,0:10:04.363 but then he was writing letters 0:10:04.363,0:10:06.732 and it just really coincides with 0:10:06.732,0:10:08.465 Buddhist teachings that I'm 0:10:08.465,0:10:10.964 having a wonderful day and I'm really 0:10:10.964,0:10:13.104 grateful for everybody who supports us 0:10:13.104,0:10:14.274 We have a saying that, 0:10:14.274,0:10:16.982 every day is as you say, the greatest day 0:10:16.982,0:10:19.433 I can see that, you know, 0:10:19.433,0:10:20.892 intelectually I can understand it 0:10:20.892,0:10:24.164 but I just wasn't sure if I could 0:10:24.164,0:10:26.815 feel, if I would be able to say something 0:10:26.815,0:10:27.664 like that. 0:10:30.524,0:10:31.768 [producer] It's important to question 0:10:31.862,0:10:33.462 one's own beliefs. 0:10:41.802,0:10:42.623 Man I'm such a skeptic 0:10:43.027,0:10:44.434 and that includes questioning 0:10:44.434,0:10:46.803 my own beliefs 0:10:46.803,0:10:48.653 especially if I form a hypothesis 0:10:48.653,0:10:50.432 and I'm working on an experiment 0:10:50.432,0:10:52.101 I mean you always kinda want it to go 0:10:52.101,0:10:53.835 a certain way and you have to 0:10:53.835,0:10:55.384 do your best to remove that 0:10:55.384,0:10:58.428 bias and a lot of times 0:10:58.428,0:10:59.790 if you're in research 0:10:59.790,0:11:01.086 it just doesn't work. 0:11:01.095,0:11:02.325 One of the things I tell students 0:11:02.325,0:11:03.348 cause I work with students a lot 0:11:03.698,0:11:05.368 with my non-profit organization 0:11:05.368,0:11:06.298 and I tell them 0:11:06.298,0:11:08.819 as they're journeying to becoming scientists 0:11:08.819,0:11:09.695 and they come from all sorts of 0:11:09.695,0:11:10.725 different backgrounds 0:11:10.725,0:11:11.593 I just say 0:11:11.593,0:11:12.391 look, don't ever work with anyone 0:11:12.391,0:11:13.836 who's afraid to admit that they don't know 0:11:13.836,0:11:15.417 something or that they're wrong 0:11:15.417,0:11:17.177 like those are really important qualities 0:11:17.177,0:11:18.049 whether it's in science 0:11:18.049,0:11:19.576 or any aspect of life. 0:11:19.576,0:11:21.273 The whole fun in being a scientist 0:11:21.273,0:11:23.500 is trying to break things 0:11:23.500,0:11:25.135 and I actually wanted to start a journal 0:11:25.135,0:11:26.599 of scientific mistakes 0:11:26.599,0:11:27.606 so that we could 0:11:27.606,0:11:29.340 share with each other what went wrong 0:11:29.340,0:11:30.736 because too often we only talk about 0:11:30.736,0:11:31.574 the successes 0:11:31.574,0:11:32.956 and I think it's very valuable 0:11:32.956,0:11:34.718 to also know what failure is 0:11:34.718,0:11:36.148 and what it teaches us. 0:11:36.148,0:11:38.049 Questioning is such a healthy thing 0:11:38.049,0:11:39.507 I always think it's a healthy thing 0:11:39.507,0:11:41.147 So whenever I see younger 0:11:41.147,0:11:42.686 monastics or priests 0:11:42.686,0:11:44.092 like yeah, go ahead and question 0:11:44.092,0:11:46.497 question me or question what you do 0:11:46.497,0:11:48.287 and then be okay 0:11:48.287,0:11:50.344 and you need to understand 0:11:50.344,0:11:52.526 understand intellectually 0:11:52.526,0:11:53.898 but at the same time, 0:11:53.898,0:11:55.548 I want you to understand there are things 0:11:55.548,0:11:56.788 that's beyond this 0:11:56.788,0:11:58.648 intellectual understanding. 0:11:58.648,0:12:03.146 So that's an unrecognizable part of 0:12:03.146,0:12:04.257 understanding that comes 0:12:04.257,0:12:06.020 only through experience. 0:12:08.084,0:12:10.635 Nice meeting you! 0:12:17.515,0:12:18.916 Hey guys, this is John 0:12:18.916,0:12:19.919 and I'm Kendra 0:12:19.919,0:12:20.785 thank you so much for watching 0:12:20.785,0:12:22.247 this episode of Middle Ground 0:12:22.247,0:12:23.426 make sure to let us know what you think 0:12:23.426,0:12:24.896 in the comments below 0:12:24.896,0:12:25.998 and as always 0:12:25.998,0:12:28.130 please be sure to click subscribe 0:12:28.130,0:12:30.147 and watch more of our stuff 0:12:30.147,0:12:31.906 We'll see you next time.