[Script Info]
Title: 
[Events]
Format: Layer, Start, End, Style, Name, MarginL, MarginR, MarginV, Effect, Text
Dialogue: 0,0:00:00.00,0:12:43.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Music)
Dialogue: 0,0:12:43.68,0:12:46.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Oh, hi kids! I have an incredible message for you!
Dialogue: 0,0:12:46.48,0:12:48.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Hey, can someone take Thelma back to the petting zoo?
Dialogue: 0,0:12:49.23,0:12:50.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Wow, that looks like fun!
Dialogue: 0,0:12:51.13,0:12:55.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Now where was I? Oh yes, in 2014, kids 12 and under can come free!
Dialogue: 0,0:12:55.70,0:12:58.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Hey, shouldn't the comets be in the planetarium?
Dialogue: 0,0:12:58.26,0:13:01.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,For the entire year, kids 12 and under come free.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:01.50,0:13:04.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Hey, T-rex, you better get back to the dinasour den!
Dialogue: 0,0:13:04.36,0:13:06.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,As you can see, it's a very exciting place.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:07.08,0:13:10.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Now tell your parents, kids 12 and under free in 2014
Dialogue: 0,0:13:10.14,0:13:11.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,when accompanied by a paying adult.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:11.88,0:13:13.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We hope to see you soon.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:14.52,0:13:17.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Good evening, I'm please to welcome you to Legacy Hall
Dialogue: 0,0:13:17.80,0:13:20.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the Creation Museum in Northern Kentucky
Dialogue: 0,0:13:20.69,0:13:23.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in the Metropolitan area of Cincinnati.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:23.27,0:13:25.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'm Tom Forman from CNN.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:25.07,0:13:26.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I'm please to be tonight's moderator for
Dialogue: 0,0:13:26.80,0:13:30.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,this Evolution vs. Creation debate.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:30.27,0:13:33.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This is a very old question, where did we come from?
Dialogue: 0,0:13:34.28,0:13:37.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,My answer is from Washington this morning by airplane.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:37.20,0:13:43.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Laughter) But there is a much more profound, longer answer,
Dialogue: 0,0:13:43.14,0:13:45.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That people have sought after for a long time.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:45.16,0:13:48.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, tonight's question to be debated is the following:
Dialogue: 0,0:13:48.52,0:13:55.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Is Creation a viable model of origins in today's modern Scientific era?
Dialogue: 0,0:13:55.73,0:13:58.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Our welcome extends to hundreds of thousands of people
Dialogue: 0,0:13:58.18,0:14:01.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who are watching on the internet at debatelive.org.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:01.80,0:14:03.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We're glad you have joined us.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:03.16,0:14:04.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Of course, your auditorium here,
Dialogue: 0,0:14:04.97,0:14:06.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,all of the folks who've joined us as well.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:06.72,0:14:10.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We're joined by 70 media representatives from many
Dialogue: 0,0:14:10.08,0:14:12.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the world's great news organizations.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:12.11,0:14:13.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We're glad to have them here as well.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:13.95,0:14:18.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And now let's welcome our debaters: Mr. Bill Nye and Mr. Ken Ham.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:18.44,0:14:47.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(audience applauds)
Dialogue: 0,0:14:47.85,0:14:50.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We had a coin toss earlier to determine
Dialogue: 0,0:14:50.44,0:14:52.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who would go first of these two men.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:52.26,0:14:54.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The only thing missing was Joe Namath in a fur coat.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:55.36,0:14:59.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But it went very well. Mr. Ham won the coin toss
Dialogue: 0,0:14:59.73,0:15:04.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and he opted to speak first. But first, let me tell you
Dialogue: 0,0:15:04.26,0:15:05.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a little bit about both of these gentlemen.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:05.75,0:15:08.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Mr. Nye's website describes him as a scientist,
Dialogue: 0,0:15:08.18,0:15:10.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,engineer, comedian, author, and inventor.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:10.74,0:15:14.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Mr Nye, as you may know, produced a number of award-winning TV shows,
Dialogue: 0,0:15:14.44,0:15:17.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,including a program he became so well-known for:
Dialogue: 0,0:15:17.27,0:15:19.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Bill Nye the Science Guy.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:19.68,0:15:22.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,While working on the Science Guy show, Mr. Nye won
Dialogue: 0,0:15:22.02,0:15:25.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,seven national Emmy awards for writing, performing,
Dialogue: 0,0:15:25.16,0:15:28.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and producing the show. Won 18 Emmys in five years!
Dialogue: 0,0:15:28.87,0:15:33.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In between creating the shows, he wrote five kids books about science,
Dialogue: 0,0:15:33.07,0:15:37.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,including his latest title, {\i1}Bill Nye's Great Big Book of Tiny Germs{\i0}.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:37.46,0:15:40.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Billy Nye is the host of three television series:
Dialogue: 0,0:15:40.68,0:15:43.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,his program, "The 100 Greatest Discoveries"--
Dialogue: 0,0:15:43.09,0:15:45.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,airs on the Science Channel. "The Eyes of Nye"--
Dialogue: 0,0:15:45.71,0:15:48.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,airs on PBS stations across the country. He frequenly appears
Dialogue: 0,0:15:48.56,0:15:51.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on interview programs to discuss a variety of science topics.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:51.67,0:15:55.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Mr. Nye serves as Executive Director of the Planetary Society,
Dialogue: 0,0:15:55.60,0:15:58.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the world's largest space interest group.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:58.11,0:16:00.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,He is a graduate of Cornell, with a Bachelors
Dialogue: 0,0:16:00.37,0:16:03.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of Science degree in Mechanical Engineering.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:03.72,0:16:08.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Mr. Ken Ham is the president and co-founder of Answers in Genesis,
Dialogue: 0,0:16:08.17,0:16:11.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a bible-defending organization that upholds the authority
Dialogue: 0,0:16:11.21,0:16:13.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the scriptures from the very first verse.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:13.35,0:16:17.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Mr. Ham is the man behind the popular, high-tech
Dialogue: 0,0:16:17.05,0:16:19.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Creation Museum, where we're holding this debate.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:19.32,0:16:21.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The museum has had 2 million visitors in six years
Dialogue: 0,0:16:21.52,0:16:23.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and has attracted much of the world's media.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:23.81,0:16:26.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The Answers in Genesis website, as well, trafficked
Dialogue: 0,0:16:26.31,0:16:29.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with 2 million visitors alone last month. Mr. Ham is also
Dialogue: 0,0:16:29.42,0:16:32.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a best-selling author, a much in-demand speaker,
Dialogue: 0,0:16:32.91,0:16:36.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the host of a daily radio feature carried on 700 plus stations.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:36.99,0:16:41.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This is his second public debate on Evolution and Creation.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:41.11,0:16:44.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The first was at Harvard, in the 1990s.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:44.11,0:16:46.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Mr. Ham is a native of Australia. He earned
Dialogue: 0,0:16:46.69,0:16:49.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a Bachelors degree in Applied Science, with an emphasis in
Dialogue: 0,0:16:49.32,0:16:53.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Environmental Biology, from the Queensland's Institute of Technology,
Dialogue: 0,0:16:53.08,0:16:56.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as well as a Diploma of Education at the University
Dialogue: 0,0:16:56.28,0:16:59.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of Queensland in Brisbon, Australia.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:59.63,0:17:02.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And now...Mr. Ham, you opted to go first, so you will
Dialogue: 0,0:17:02.78,0:17:05.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,be first with your five minute opening statement.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:08.36,0:17:11.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Well, good evening. I know that not everyone watching
Dialogue: 0,0:17:11.63,0:17:14.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,this debate will necessarily agree with what I have to say,
Dialogue: 0,0:17:14.93,0:17:17.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but I'm an Aussie and live over here in America
Dialogue: 0,0:17:17.87,0:17:20.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and they tell me I have an accent and so it doesn't matter
Dialogue: 0,0:17:20.69,0:17:24.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,what I say, some people tell me. We just like to hear you saying it.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:24.28,0:17:27.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(laughter) So...um...I hope you enjoy me saying it anyway.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:27.26,0:17:29.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Well, the debate topic is this: Is Creation
Dialogue: 0,0:17:29.57,0:17:33.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a viable model of origins in today's modern scientific era?
Dialogue: 0,0:17:33.10,0:17:36.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You know, when this was first announced on the internet,
Dialogue: 0,0:17:36.26,0:17:37.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,there were lots of statements-- like this one
Dialogue: 0,0:17:37.100,0:17:39.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,from the Richard Dawkins Foundation.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:39.95,0:17:43.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"Scientists should not debate Creationists. Period."
Dialogue: 0,0:17:43.02,0:17:46.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And this one from one of the Discovery.com websites.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:46.23,0:17:48.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"Should Scientists Debate Creationists?"
Dialogue: 0,0:17:48.37,0:17:50.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You know, right here I believe there's a gross misrepresentation
Dialogue: 0,0:17:50.94,0:17:55.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in our culture. We're seeing people being indoctrinated
Dialogue: 0,0:17:55.38,0:17:58.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to believe that Creationists can't be Scientists.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:58.14,0:18:01.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I believe it's all a part of secularists hi-jacking the word "Science".
Dialogue: 0,0:18:01.98,0:18:05.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I want you to meet a modern-day scientist who's a Biblical Creationist.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:05.90,0:18:07.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,My name is Stuart Burgess.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:07.77,0:18:11.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'm a professor of Engineering Design at Bristol University in the U.K.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:13.56,0:18:15.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,My name is Stuart Burgess.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:15.62,0:18:19.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'm a professor of Engineering Design at Bristol University in the U.K.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:20.22,0:18:23.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I have published over 130 scientific papers on
Dialogue: 0,0:18:23.91,0:18:28.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the science of design in Engineering and Biological systems.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:28.84,0:18:32.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,From my research work, I have found that the scientific evidence
Dialogue: 0,0:18:32.32,0:18:36.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,fully supports Creationism as the best explanation to origins.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:37.15,0:18:40.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I've also designed major parts of spacecrafts,
Dialogue: 0,0:18:40.18,0:18:42.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,launched by ESA and NASA.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:42.18,0:18:43.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So here's a biblical Creationist,
Dialogue: 0,0:18:43.93,0:18:46.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who's a scientist, who's also an inventor.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:46.66,0:18:48.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I want young people to understand that.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:48.100,0:18:52.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You know, the problem, I believe, is this: we need to define terms correctly.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:52.36,0:18:56.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We need to define Creation/Evolution in regard to origins
Dialogue: 0,0:18:56.22,0:18:59.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and we need to define science. And in this opening statement,
Dialogue: 0,0:18:59.38,0:19:02.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I want to concentrate on dealing with the word "science".
Dialogue: 0,0:19:02.26,0:19:05.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I believe the word "science" has been hijacked by secularists.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:05.55,0:19:06.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Now, what is science?
Dialogue: 0,0:19:06.69,0:19:09.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Well, the origin of the word comes from the Classical Latin "scientia",
Dialogue: 0,0:19:09.88,0:19:12.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which means know;. And if you look up a dictionary,
Dialogue: 0,0:19:12.56,0:19:15.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it'll say science means "the state of knowing, knowledge".
Dialogue: 0,0:19:15.27,0:19:17.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But there's different types of knowledge and I believe
Dialogue: 0,0:19:17.24,0:19:19.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,this is where the confusion lies.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:19.01,0:19:22.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There's experimental or observational sciences, as we call it.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:22.00,0:19:24.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That's using the scientific method, observation,
Dialogue: 0,0:19:24.73,0:19:27.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,measurement, experiment, testing. That's what produces
Dialogue: 0,0:19:27.72,0:19:30.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,our technology, computers, spacecraft, jet planes,
Dialogue: 0,0:19:30.20,0:19:35.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,smoke detectors, looking at DNA, antibiotics, medicines and vaccines.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:35.77,0:19:39.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You see, all scientists, whether Creationists or Evolutionists,
Dialogue: 0,0:19:39.41,0:19:43.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,actually have the same observational or experimental science.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:44.06,0:19:46.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And it doesn't matter whether you're a Creationist or an Evolutionist,
Dialogue: 0,0:19:46.38,0:19:47.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you can be a great scientist.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:47.54,0:19:49.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,For instance, here's an atheist, who is a great scientist--
Dialogue: 0,0:19:49.91,0:19:53.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Craig Venter, one of the first researchers to sequence the human genome.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:53.14,0:19:57.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Or Dr. Raymond Damadian. He is a man who invented
Dialogue: 0,0:19:57.68,0:20:01.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the MRI scan and revolutionized medicine. He's a biblical Creationist.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:01.64,0:20:04.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But I want us to also understand molecules-to-man
Dialogue: 0,0:20:04.02,0:20:07.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,evolution belief has nothing to do with developing technology.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:07.59,0:20:11.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You see, when we're talking about origins, we're talking about the past.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:11.64,0:20:14.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We're talking about our origins. We weren't there.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:14.03,0:20:17.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You can't observe that, whether it's molecules-to-man evolution,
Dialogue: 0,0:20:17.01,0:20:18.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or whether it's a creation account.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:19.00,0:20:20.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I mean, you're talking about the past.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:20.63,0:20:23.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We'd like to call that Origins of Historical Science,
Dialogue: 0,0:20:23.51,0:20:25.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,knowledge concerning the past. Here at the Creation Museum,
Dialogue: 0,0:20:25.76,0:20:29.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we make no apology about the fact that our Origins or Historical science
Dialogue: 0,0:20:29.96,0:20:33.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,actually is based upon the biblical account of origins.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:33.68,0:20:36.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Now, when you research science textbooks being used
Dialogue: 0,0:20:36.79,0:20:39.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in public schools, what we found is this:
Dialogue: 0,0:20:39.14,0:20:42.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,by and large, the Origins of Historical Science
Dialogue: 0,0:20:42.21,0:20:46.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is based upon man's ideas about the past--for instance, the ideas of Darwin.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:46.59,0:20:49.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And our research has found that public school textbooks
Dialogue: 0,0:20:49.18,0:20:53.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,are using the same word "science" for Observational Science
Dialogue: 0,0:20:53.42,0:20:56.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and Historical Science. They arbitrarily define science
Dialogue: 0,0:20:56.88,0:20:59.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as naturalism and outlaw the supernatural.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:59.59,0:21:02.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They present molecules-to-man evolution as fact.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:02.32,0:21:04.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They are imposing, I believe, the religion
Dialogue: 0,0:21:04.18,0:21:06.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of naturalism or atheism on generations of students.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:06.92,0:21:10.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You see, I assert that the word "science" has been hijacked
Dialogue: 0,0:21:10.16,0:21:13.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,by secularists in teaching evolution to force the religion
Dialogue: 0,0:21:13.63,0:21:15.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of naturalism on generations of kids.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:15.90,0:21:18.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Secular evolutionists teach that all life developed
Dialogue: 0,0:21:18.17,0:21:21.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,by natural processes from some primordial form.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:21.09,0:21:24.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That man is just an evolved animal, which has great bearing
Dialogue: 0,0:21:24.08,0:21:25.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on how we view life and death.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:25.76,0:21:29.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,For instance, as Bill states, "It's very hard to accept,
Dialogue: 0,0:21:29.14,0:21:32.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for many of us, that when you die, it's over.";
Dialogue: 0,0:21:32.36,0:21:35.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But, you see, the Bible gives a totally different account of origins,
Dialogue: 0,0:21:35.11,0:21:38.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of who we are, where we came from, the meaning of life, and our future.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:38.64,0:21:41.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:41.93,0:21:45.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But that God so loved the world that He gave his only begotten Son.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:45.38,0:21:49.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Whoever believes in Him should not perish and have everlasting life.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:49.26,0:21:53.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So is creation a viable model of origins in today's modern scientific era?
Dialogue: 0,0:21:53.86,0:21:56.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I say the creation/evolution debate is a conflict
Dialogue: 0,0:21:56.36,0:21:59.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,between two philosophical worldviews based on two different accounts
Dialogue: 0,0:21:59.76,0:22:02.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of origins or science beliefs and creation
Dialogue: 0,0:22:02.40,0:22:05.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is the only viable model of historical science confirmed
Dialogue: 0,0:22:05.69,0:22:09.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,by observational science in today's modern scientific era.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:10.49,0:22:14.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And that is time. I had the unenviable job of being the time-keeper here.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:14.82,0:22:17.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So I'm like the referee in football that you don't like,
Dialogue: 0,0:22:17.59,0:22:20.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but I will periodically, if either one of our debaters
Dialogue: 0,0:22:20.52,0:22:24.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,runs over on anything, I will stop them in the name of keeping it fair for all.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:24.76,0:22:27.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Uh, Mr. Ham, thank you for your comments. Now it's Mr. Nye's
Dialogue: 0,0:22:27.47,0:22:29.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,turn for a five minute opening statement. Mr. Nye.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:29.91,0:22:32.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Thank you. It's a pleasure to be here.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:32.15,0:22:36.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I very much appreciate you including me in your, uh, facility here.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:36.18,0:22:40.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Now, looking around the room I think I see just one bow tie.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:40.52,0:22:43.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Is that right? Just one. And I'm telling you, once you try it--
Dialogue: 0,0:22:43.88,0:22:47.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,oh, there's yes, two! That's great. I started wearing bow ties
Dialogue: 0,0:22:47.85,0:22:50.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,when I was young, in high school.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:50.06,0:22:52.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,My father showed me how. His father showed him.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:53.26,0:22:58.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And there's a story associated with this, which I find remarkable.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:59.02,0:23:03.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,My grandfather was in the rotary, and he attended
Dialogue: 0,0:23:03.62,0:23:06.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a convention in Philadelphia, and even in those days,
Dialogue: 0,0:23:06.100,0:23:10.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,at the turn of the last century, people rented tuxedos.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:10.83,0:23:15.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And the tuxedo came with a bow tie--untied bow tie.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:15.09,0:23:16.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So he didn't know how to tie it.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:16.91,0:23:20.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So...wasn't sure what to do, but he just took a chance.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:20.19,0:23:23.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,He went to the hotel room next door, knocked on the door,
Dialogue: 0,0:23:23.74,0:23:26.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"Excuse me? Can you help me tie my tie?"
Dialogue: 0,0:23:26.08,0:23:29.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And the guy said, "Sure. Lie down on the bed."
Dialogue: 0,0:23:31.19,0:23:35.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So...my grandfather wanted to have the tie on,
Dialogue: 0,0:23:35.35,0:23:38.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,wasn't sure what he was getting into, so he's said
Dialogue: 0,0:23:38.65,0:23:42.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to have lain on the bed and the guy tied a perfect bow tie knot and,
Dialogue: 0,0:23:42.56,0:23:45.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,quite reasonably, my grandfather said,
Dialogue: 0,0:23:45.58,0:23:48.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"Thank you. Why'd I have to lie down on the bed?"
Dialogue: 0,0:23:48.41,0:23:49.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The guy said, "I'm an undertaker."
Dialogue: 0,0:23:49.93,0:23:52.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(audience laughs)
Dialogue: 0,0:23:52.04,0:23:54.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"It's the only way I know how to do it."
Dialogue: 0,0:23:54.08,0:23:58.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Now that story was presented to me as a true story.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:58.42,0:24:01.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It may or may not be. But it gives you something to think about.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:01.90,0:24:04.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And it's certainly something to remember.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:04.77,0:24:07.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, here tonight, we're gonna have two stories
Dialogue: 0,0:24:07.62,0:24:13.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and we can compare Mr. Ham's story to the story
Dialogue: 0,0:24:13.07,0:24:16.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,from what I will call the outside, from mainstream science.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:16.42,0:24:20.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The question tonight is: Does Ken Ham's Creation Model hold up?
Dialogue: 0,0:24:21.34,0:24:22.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Is it "viable"?
Dialogue: 0,0:24:23.17,0:24:26.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So let me ask you all: what would you be doing if you weren't here tonight?
Dialogue: 0,0:24:26.100,0:24:29.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That's right, you'd be home watching CSI.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:30.81,0:24:35.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,CSI Petersburg. Is that coming--I think it's coming.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:36.68,0:24:41.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And on CSI, there is no distinction made between
Dialogue: 0,0:24:41.04,0:24:43.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,historical science and observational science.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:43.65,0:24:46.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,These are constructs unique to Mr. Ham.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:46.83,0:24:50.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We don't normally have these anywhere in the world except here.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:50.44,0:24:53.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Natural laws that applied in the past apply now.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:53.97,0:24:57.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That's why they're natural laws. That's why we embrace them.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:57.20,0:24:59.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That's how we made all these discoveries
Dialogue: 0,0:24:59.06,0:25:01.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that enabled all this remarkable technology.
Dialogue: 0,0:25:01.69,0:25:05.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So CSI is a fictional show, but it's based absolutely
Dialogue: 0,0:25:05.40,0:25:07.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on real people doing real work.
Dialogue: 0,0:25:07.10,0:25:09.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,When you go to a crime scene and find evidence,
Dialogue: 0,0:25:09.88,0:25:13.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you have clues about the past. And you trust those clues
Dialogue: 0,0:25:13.36,0:25:17.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and you embrace them and you move forward to convict somebody.
Dialogue: 0,0:25:17.05,0:25:20.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Mr. Ham and his followers have this remarkable view
Dialogue: 0,0:25:20.60,0:25:26.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of a worldwide flood that somehow influenced everything that we observe in nature.
Dialogue: 0,0:25:26.97,0:25:32.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,A 500 foot wooden boat, eight zookeepers for 14,000 individual animals,
Dialogue: 0,0:25:32.97,0:25:37.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,every land plant in the world underwater for a full year?
Dialogue: 0,0:25:37.70,0:25:40.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I ask us all: is that really reasonable?
Dialogue: 0,0:25:40.73,0:25:43.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You'll hear a lot about the Grand Canyon, I imagine, also,
Dialogue: 0,0:25:43.64,0:25:46.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which is a remarkable place and it has fossils.
Dialogue: 0,0:25:46.90,0:25:50.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And the fossils in the Grand Canyon are found in layers.
Dialogue: 0,0:25:51.07,0:25:53.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There's not a single place in the Grand Canyon
Dialogue: 0,0:25:53.88,0:25:56.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,where the fossils of one type of animal cross over
Dialogue: 0,0:25:56.97,0:25:59.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,into the fossils of another. In other words,
Dialogue: 0,0:25:59.58,0:26:03.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,when there was a big flood on the earth, you would expect
Dialogue: 0,0:26:03.06,0:26:06.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,drowning animals to swim up to a higher level.
Dialogue: 0,0:26:06.25,0:26:09.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Not any one of them did. Not a single one.
Dialogue: 0,0:26:09.36,0:26:13.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If you could find evidence of that, my friends, you could change the world.
Dialogue: 0,0:26:14.37,0:26:17.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Now, I just wanna remind us all:
Dialogue: 0,0:26:17.48,0:26:22.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,there are billions of people in the world who are deeply religious,
Dialogue: 0,0:26:22.80,0:26:27.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who get enriched, who have a wonderful sense of community from their religion.
Dialogue: 0,0:26:27.60,0:26:31.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They worship together, they eat together, they live
Dialogue: 0,0:26:31.34,0:26:34.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in their communities and enjoy each others company. Billions of people.
Dialogue: 0,0:26:34.69,0:26:39.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But these same people do not embrace the extraordinary view
Dialogue: 0,0:26:39.12,0:26:43.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that the earth is somehow only 6,000 years old. That is unique.
Dialogue: 0,0:26:44.27,0:26:48.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And here's my concern: what keeps the United States ahead,
Dialogue: 0,0:26:49.09,0:26:53.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,what makes the United States a world leader, is our technology,
Dialogue: 0,0:26:53.72,0:26:59.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,our new ideas, our innovations. If we continue to eschew science,
Dialogue: 0,0:26:59.25,0:27:02.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,eschew the process and try to divide science
Dialogue: 0,0:27:02.68,0:27:05.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,into observational science and historic science,
Dialogue: 0,0:27:06.29,0:27:09.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we are not gonna move forward. We will not embrace natural laws.
Dialogue: 0,0:27:09.47,0:27:15.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We will not make discoveries. We will not invent and innovate and stay ahead.
Dialogue: 0,0:27:15.34,0:27:20.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So if you ask me if Ken Ham's Creation model is viable, I say no.
Dialogue: 0,0:27:20.40,0:27:24.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It is absolutely not viable. So stay with us over the next period
Dialogue: 0,0:27:24.78,0:27:28.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and you can compare my evidence to his. Thank you all very much.
Dialogue: 0,0:27:28.92,0:27:32.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(audience applauds) (moderator) All right.
Dialogue: 0,0:27:32.76,0:27:35.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Very nice start by both of our debaters here.
Dialogue: 0,0:27:35.19,0:27:38.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And now each of one will offer a thirty minute,
Dialogue: 0,0:27:38.21,0:27:43.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,illustrated presentation to fully offer their case for us to consider.
Dialogue: 0,0:27:43.77,0:27:44.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Mr. Ham, you're up.
Dialogue: 0,0:27:57.45,0:28:00.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Well, the debate topic was "Is creation a viable model
Dialogue: 0,0:28:00.35,0:28:03.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of origins in today's modern scientific era?"
Dialogue: 0,0:28:03.40,0:28:06.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I made the statement at the end of my opening statement:
Dialogue: 0,0:28:06.67,0:28:09.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,creation is the only viable model of historical science
Dialogue: 0,0:28:09.70,0:28:13.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,confirmed by observational science in today's modern scientific era.
Dialogue: 0,0:28:13.29,0:28:16.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I said what we need to be doing is actually defining
Dialogue: 0,0:28:16.94,0:28:22.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,our terms and, particularly three terms: science, creation, and evolution.
Dialogue: 0,0:28:22.45,0:28:25.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Now, I discussed the meaning of the word "science"
Dialogue: 0,0:28:25.43,0:28:28.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and what is meant by experimental and observational science briefly.
Dialogue: 0,0:28:28.80,0:28:30.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And that both Creationists and Evolutionists
Dialogue: 0,0:28:30.66,0:28:35.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,can be great scientists, for instance. I mentioned Craig Venter, a biologist.
Dialogue: 0,0:28:35.84,0:28:38.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,He's an atheist and he's a great scientist.
Dialogue: 0,0:28:38.17,0:28:41.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,He was one of the first researchers to sequence the human genome.
Dialogue: 0,0:28:41.45,0:28:47.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I also mentioned Dr. Raymond Damadian, who actually invented the MRI scanner.
Dialogue: 0,0:28:47.00,0:28:52.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I want you to meet a biblical creationist who is a scientist and an inventor.
Dialogue: 0,0:28:52.80,0:28:55.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Hi, my name is Dr. Raymond Damadian.
Dialogue: 0,0:28:55.25,0:28:58.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I am a Young Earth Creation Scientist and believe that God
Dialogue: 0,0:28:58.24,0:29:01.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,created the world in six 24 hour days,
Dialogue: 0,0:29:01.38,0:29:04.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,just as recorded in the book of Genesis.
Dialogue: 0,0:29:04.09,0:29:07.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,By God's grace and the devoted prayers of my Godly mother-in-law,
Dialogue: 0,0:29:07.90,0:29:11.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I invented the MRI scanner in 1969.
Dialogue: 0,0:29:11.35,0:29:14.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The idea that scientists who believe the earth
Dialogue: 0,0:29:14.46,0:29:19.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is 6,000 years old cannot do real science is simply wrong.
Dialogue: 0,0:29:19.57,0:29:21.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Well, he's most adamant about that.
Dialogue: 0,0:29:21.56,0:29:24.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And, actually, he revolutionized medicine! He's a biblical Creationist.
Dialogue: 0,0:29:24.92,0:29:29.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I encourage children to follow people like that, make them their heroes.
Dialogue: 0,0:29:29.39,0:29:33.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Let me introduce you to another biblical Creation Scientist.
Dialogue: 0,0:29:33.41,0:29:34.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,My name is Danny Faulkner.
Dialogue: 0,0:29:35.43,0:29:39.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I received my PhD in astronomy from Indiana University.
Dialogue: 0,0:29:39.38,0:29:41.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,For 26 and a half years, I was a professor
Dialogue: 0,0:29:41.73,0:29:44.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,at the University of South Carolina, Lancaster,
Dialogue: 0,0:29:44.26,0:29:47.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,where I hold the rank of distinguished professor emeritus.
Dialogue: 0,0:29:47.88,0:29:51.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Upon my retirement from the university in January of 2013,
Dialogue: 0,0:29:51.71,0:29:56.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I joined the research staff at Answers in Genesis. I'm a stellar astronomer.
Dialogue: 0,0:29:56.100,0:30:00.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That means my primary interests is stars, but I'm particularly
Dialogue: 0,0:30:00.36,0:30:03.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,interested in the study of eclipsing binary stars.
Dialogue: 0,0:30:03.30,0:30:06.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I've published many articles in the astronomy literature,
Dialogue: 0,0:30:06.03,0:30:07.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,places such as the the Astrophysical Journal,
Dialogue: 0,0:30:07.90,0:30:10.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the Astronomical Journal, and the Observatory.
Dialogue: 0,0:30:11.23,0:30:16.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There is nothing in observational astronomy that contradicts a recent creation.
Dialogue: 0,0:30:17.35,0:30:19.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I also mentioned Dr. Stuart Burgess,
Dialogue: 0,0:30:19.92,0:30:24.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,professor of Engineering Design at Bristol University in England.
Dialogue: 0,0:30:24.50,0:30:28.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Now he invented and designed a double-action worm gear set
Dialogue: 0,0:30:28.98,0:30:33.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for the three hinges of the robotic arm on a very expensive satellite.
Dialogue: 0,0:30:33.50,0:30:36.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And if that had not worked, if that gear set had not worked,
Dialogue: 0,0:30:36.37,0:30:38.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that whole satellite would've been useless.
Dialogue: 0,0:30:38.88,0:30:43.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Yet, Dr. Burgess is a biblical Creationist. He believes, just as I believe.
Dialogue: 0,0:30:43.82,0:30:46.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Now, think about this for a moment.
Dialogue: 0,0:30:46.16,0:30:47.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,A scientist like Dr. Burgess,
Dialogue: 0,0:30:47.51,0:30:49.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who believe in Creation, just as I do,
Dialogue: 0,0:30:49.91,0:30:52.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a small minority in this scientific world.
Dialogue: 0,0:30:52.40,0:30:55.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But let's see what he says about scientists believing in Creation.
Dialogue: 0,0:30:55.67,0:30:59.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I find that many of my colleagues in academia are sympathetic
Dialogue: 0,0:30:59.22,0:31:03.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to the creationist viewpoint, including biologists.
Dialogue: 0,0:31:03.08,0:31:06.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,However, there are often afraid to speak out because of the criticisms
Dialogue: 0,0:31:06.40,0:31:09.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they would get from the media and atheists lobby.
Dialogue: 0,0:31:09.33,0:31:11.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I agree. That's a real problem today.
Dialogue: 0,0:31:11.48,0:31:15.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We need to have freedom to be able to speak on these topics.
Dialogue: 0,0:31:15.08,0:31:18.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You know, I just want to say, by the way, that Creationists,
Dialogue: 0,0:31:18.60,0:31:21.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,non-Christian scientists, I should say,
Dialogue: 0,0:31:21.66,0:31:23.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,non-Christian scientists are really borrowing
Dialogue: 0,0:31:23.76,0:31:27.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,from the Christian worldview anyway to carry out their experimental,
Dialogue: 0,0:31:27.13,0:31:30.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,observational science. Think about it. When they're doing
Dialogue: 0,0:31:30.20,0:31:32.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,observational science, using the scientific method,
Dialogue: 0,0:31:32.85,0:31:34.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they have to assume the laws of logic,
Dialogue: 0,0:31:34.44,0:31:36.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they have to assume the laws of nature,
Dialogue: 0,0:31:36.20,0:31:38.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they have to assume the uniformity of nature.
Dialogue: 0,0:31:38.29,0:31:41.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I mean, think about it. If the universe came about by natural processes,
Dialogue: 0,0:31:41.28,0:31:44.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,where'd the laws of logic come from? Did they just pop into existence?
Dialogue: 0,0:31:44.43,0:31:47.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Are we in a stage now where we only have half-logic?
Dialogue: 0,0:31:47.29,0:31:50.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, you see, I have a question for Bill Nye.
Dialogue: 0,0:31:50.10,0:31:53.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,How do you account for the laws of logic and the laws of nature
Dialogue: 0,0:31:53.08,0:31:57.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,from a naturalistic worldview that excludes the existence of God?
Dialogue: 0,0:31:57.82,0:32:00.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Now, in my opening statement I also discussed
Dialogue: 0,0:32:00.91,0:32:05.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a different type of science or knowledge, origins or historical science.
Dialogue: 0,0:32:05.00,0:32:08.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,See again, there's a confusion here. There's a misunderstanding here.
Dialogue: 0,0:32:08.47,0:32:13.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,People, by and large, have not been taught to look at
Dialogue: 0,0:32:13.57,0:32:17.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,what you believe about the past as different to what you're observing in the present.
Dialogue: 0,0:32:17.70,0:32:21.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You don't observe the past directly.
Dialogue: 0,0:32:21.24,0:32:24.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Even when you think about the creation account.
Dialogue: 0,0:32:24.93,0:32:26.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I mean, we can't observe God creating.
Dialogue: 0,0:32:26.83,0:32:29.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We can't observe the creation of Adam and Eve. We admit that.
Dialogue: 0,0:32:29.73,0:32:32.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We're willing to admit our beliefs about the past.
Dialogue: 0,0:32:32.21,0:32:35.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But, see, what you see in the present is very different.
Dialogue: 0,0:32:35.60,0:32:39.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Even some public school textbooks actually sort of acknowledge
Dialogue: 0,0:32:39.30,0:32:42.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the difference between historical and observational science.
Dialogue: 0,0:32:42.40,0:32:45.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Here is an Earth Science textbook that's used in public schools.
Dialogue: 0,0:32:45.83,0:32:48.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And we read this. In contrast to physical geology,
Dialogue: 0,0:32:48.85,0:32:53.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the aim of historical geology is to understand Earth's long history.
Dialogue: 0,0:32:53.30,0:32:54.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Then they make this statement.
Dialogue: 0,0:32:54.41,0:32:57.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Historical geology--so we're talking historical science--
Dialogue: 0,0:32:57.76,0:33:00.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,tries to establish a timeline of the vast number of physical
Dialogue: 0,0:33:00.90,0:33:03.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and biological changes that have occurred in the past.
Dialogue: 0,0:33:03.30,0:33:06.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We study physical geology before historical geology
Dialogue: 0,0:33:06.87,0:33:11.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because we first must understand how Earth works before we try to unravel its past.
Dialogue: 0,0:33:11.57,0:33:14.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In other words, we observe things in the present and then,
Dialogue: 0,0:33:14.47,0:33:18.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,okay, we're assuming that that's always happened in the past
Dialogue: 0,0:33:18.10,0:33:20.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and we're gonna try and figure out how this happened.
Dialogue: 0,0:33:20.44,0:33:22.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,See, there is a difference between what you observe
Dialogue: 0,0:33:22.23,0:33:26.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and what happened in the past. Let me illustrate it this way:
Dialogue: 0,0:33:27.54,0:33:29.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If Bill Nye and I went to the Grand Canyon,
Dialogue: 0,0:33:29.34,0:33:32.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we could agree that that's a Coconino sandstone in the Hermit shale.
Dialogue: 0,0:33:32.65,0:33:35.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There's the boundary. They're sitting one on top of the other.
Dialogue: 0,0:33:35.16,0:33:38.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We could agree on that. But you know what we would disagree on?
Dialogue: 0,0:33:38.77,0:33:41.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I mean, we could even analyse the minerals and agree on that.
Dialogue: 0,0:33:41.53,0:33:44.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But we would disagree on how long it took to get there.
Dialogue: 0,0:33:44.06,0:33:47.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But see, none of us saw the sandstone or the shale being laid down.
Dialogue: 0,0:33:47.56,0:33:49.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There's a supposed 10 million year gap there.
Dialogue: 0,0:33:49.73,0:33:51.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But I don't see a gap.
Dialogue: 0,0:33:51.00,0:33:53.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But that might be different to what Bill Nye would see.
Dialogue: 0,0:33:53.73,0:33:57.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But there's a difference between what you actually observe
Dialogue: 0,0:33:57.53,0:34:00.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,directly and then your interpretation regarding the past.
Dialogue: 0,0:34:00.83,0:34:04.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,When I was at the Goddard Space Center a number of years ago
Dialogue: 0,0:34:04.71,0:34:06.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I met Creationists and Evolutionists who were
Dialogue: 0,0:34:06.61,0:34:08.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,both working on the Hubble telescope.
Dialogue: 0,0:34:08.31,0:34:10.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They agreed on how to build the Hubble telescope.
Dialogue: 0,0:34:10.60,0:34:13.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You know what they disagreed on? Well, they disagreed on
Dialogue: 0,0:34:13.33,0:34:16.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,how to interpret the data the telescope obtained
Dialogue: 0,0:34:16.17,0:34:18.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in regard to the age of the universe.
Dialogue: 0,0:34:18.46,0:34:21.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And, you know, we could on and talk about lots
Dialogue: 0,0:34:21.30,0:34:23.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of other similar sorts of things. For instance,
Dialogue: 0,0:34:23.14,0:34:26.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I've heard Bill Nye talk about how a smoke detector works,
Dialogue: 0,0:34:26.55,0:34:30.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,using the radioactive element Americium. And, you know what?
Dialogue: 0,0:34:30.79,0:34:32.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I totally agree with him on that. We agree how it works.
Dialogue: 0,0:34:32.93,0:34:35.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We agree how radioactivity enables that to work.
Dialogue: 0,0:34:35.93,0:34:37.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But if you're then gonna use radioactive elements
Dialogue: 0,0:34:37.70,0:34:39.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and talk about the age of the Earth,
Dialogue: 0,0:34:39.60,0:34:41.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you've got a problem cause you weren't there.
Dialogue: 0,0:34:41.56,0:34:44.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We gotta understand parent elements, daughter elements and so on.
Dialogue: 0,0:34:44.80,0:34:47.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We could agree whether you're Creationist or Evolutionist
Dialogue: 0,0:34:47.76,0:34:50.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on the technology to put the rover on Mars, but we're gonna
Dialogue: 0,0:34:50.37,0:34:54.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,disagree on how to interpret the origin of Mars.
Dialogue: 0,0:34:54.60,0:34:56.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I mean, there are some people that believed it
Dialogue: 0,0:34:56.11,0:34:59.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,was even a global flood on Mars, and there's no liquid water on Mars.
Dialogue: 0,0:35:01.35,0:35:03.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We're gonna disagree maybe on our interpretation of origins
Dialogue: 0,0:35:03.86,0:35:06.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and you can't prove either way because, not from
Dialogue: 0,0:35:06.96,0:35:11.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,an observational science perspective, because we've only got the present.
Dialogue: 0,0:35:11.10,0:35:16.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Creationists and Evolutionists both work on medicines and vaccines.
Dialogue: 0,0:35:16.71,0:35:19.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You see? It doesn't matter whether you're a Creationist or an Evolutionist,
Dialogue: 0,0:35:19.36,0:35:23.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,all scientists have the same experimental observational science.
Dialogue: 0,0:35:23.17,0:35:26.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So I have a question for Bill Nye: Can you name one piece
Dialogue: 0,0:35:26.10,0:35:28.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of technology that could only have been developed
Dialogue: 0,0:35:28.76,0:35:32.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,starting with the belief in molecules-to-man evolution?
Dialogue: 0,0:35:32.93,0:35:35.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Now, here's another important fact.
Dialogue: 0,0:35:35.03,0:35:38.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Creationists and Evolutionists all have the same evidence.
Dialogue: 0,0:35:38.90,0:35:42.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Bill Nye and I have the same Grand Canyon. We don't disagree on that.
Dialogue: 0,0:35:42.93,0:35:46.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We all have the same fish fossils. This is one from the Creation Museum.
Dialogue: 0,0:35:46.33,0:35:50.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The same dinosaur skeleton, the same animals, the same humans,
Dialogue: 0,0:35:50.30,0:35:54.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the same DNA, the same radioactive decay elements that we see.
Dialogue: 0,0:35:54.67,0:35:59.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We have the same universe...actually, we all have the same evidences.
Dialogue: 0,0:35:59.93,0:36:01.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's not the evidences that are different.
Dialogue: 0,0:36:01.87,0:36:06.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's a battle over the same evidence in regard to how we interpret the past.
Dialogue: 0,0:36:06.23,0:36:07.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And you know why that is?
Dialogue: 0,0:36:07.57,0:36:10.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Cause it's really a battle over worldviews and starting points.
Dialogue: 0,0:36:10.26,0:36:12.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's a battle over philosophical worldviews
Dialogue: 0,0:36:12.00,0:36:14.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and starting points, but the same evidence. Now, I admit,
Dialogue: 0,0:36:14.86,0:36:17.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,my starting point is that God is the ultimate authority.
Dialogue: 0,0:36:17.80,0:36:21.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But if someone doesn't accept that, then man has to be the ultimate authority.
Dialogue: 0,0:36:21.73,0:36:24.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And that's really the difference when it comes down to it.
Dialogue: 0,0:36:24.40,0:36:26.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You see, I've been emphasizing the difference
Dialogue: 0,0:36:26.73,0:36:29.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,between historical origin science, knowledge about
Dialogue: 0,0:36:29.54,0:36:30.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the past when you weren't there,
Dialogue: 0,0:36:30.93,0:36:33.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and we need to understand that we weren't there.
Dialogue: 0,0:36:33.36,0:36:36.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Or experimental observational science, using
Dialogue: 0,0:36:36.30,0:36:38.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,your five senses in the present, the scientific method,
Dialogue: 0,0:36:38.50,0:36:41.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,what you can directly observe, test, repeat.
Dialogue: 0,0:36:42.95,0:36:44.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There's a big difference between those two.
Dialogue: 0,0:36:44.33,0:36:46.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And that's not what's being taught in our public schools
Dialogue: 0,0:36:46.80,0:36:48.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and that's why kids aren't being taught to think
Dialogue: 0,0:36:48.60,0:36:52.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,critically and correctly about the origins issue.
Dialogue: 0,0:36:52.14,0:36:54.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But you know, it's also important to understand,
Dialogue: 0,0:36:54.03,0:36:56.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,when talking about Creation and Evolution, both involve
Dialogue: 0,0:36:56.37,0:36:59.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,historical science and observational science.
Dialogue: 0,0:36:59.70,0:37:02.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You see, the role of observational science is this:
Dialogue: 0,0:37:02.36,0:37:04.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it can be used to confirm or otherwise
Dialogue: 0,0:37:04.48,0:37:08.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,one's historical science based on one's starting point.
Dialogue: 0,0:37:08.23,0:37:11.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Now, when you think about the debate topic and what I have
Dialogue: 0,0:37:11.00,0:37:14.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,learned concerning creation, if our origins
Dialogue: 0,0:37:14.40,0:37:17.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or historical science based on the bible, the bible's account
Dialogue: 0,0:37:17.100,0:37:21.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of origins is true, then there should be predictions
Dialogue: 0,0:37:21.45,0:37:24.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,from this that we can test, using observational science.
Dialogue: 0,0:37:24.44,0:37:27.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And there are. For instance, based on the bible,
Dialogue: 0,0:37:27.18,0:37:30.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we'd expect to find evidence concerning an intelligence,
Dialogue: 0,0:37:30.10,0:37:32.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,confirming an intelligence produced life.
Dialogue: 0,0:37:32.53,0:37:35.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We'd expect to find evidence confirming after their kind.
Dialogue: 0,0:37:35.14,0:37:38.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The bible says God made kinds of animals and plants
Dialogue: 0,0:37:38.14,0:37:41.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,after their kind, implying each kind produces it's own,
Dialogue: 0,0:37:41.20,0:37:43.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,not that one kind changes into another.
Dialogue: 0,0:37:43.50,0:37:47.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You'd expect to find evidence confirming a global flood of Noah's day.
Dialogue: 0,0:37:47.53,0:37:50.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Evidence confirming one race of humans because we
Dialogue: 0,0:37:50.83,0:37:53.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,all go back to Adam and Eve, biologically, that would mean there's one race.
Dialogue: 0,0:37:53.83,0:37:58.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Evidence confirming the Tower of Babel, that God gave different languages.
Dialogue: 0,0:37:58.08,0:38:00.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Evidence confirming a young universe.
Dialogue: 0,0:38:00.43,0:38:04.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Now, I can't go through all of those, but a couple of them we'll look at briefly.
Dialogue: 0,0:38:05.19,0:38:07.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,After their kind, evidence confirming that--
Dialogue: 0,0:38:07.67,0:38:12.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in the Creation Museum, we have a display featuring replicas,
Dialogue: 0,0:38:12.86,0:38:15.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,actually, of Darwin's finches. They're called Darwin's finches.
Dialogue: 0,0:38:15.93,0:38:18.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Darwin collected finches from the Galapagos
Dialogue: 0,0:38:18.83,0:38:21.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and took them back to England and we see the different species,
Dialogue: 0,0:38:21.86,0:38:24.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the different beak sizes here. And, you know,
Dialogue: 0,0:38:24.13,0:38:27.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,from the specimens Darwin obtained in the Galapagos,
Dialogue: 0,0:38:27.17,0:38:31.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,he actually pondered these things and how do you explain this.
Dialogue: 0,0:38:31.30,0:38:36.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And in his notes, actually, he came up with this diagram here, a tree.
Dialogue: 0,0:38:36.70,0:38:42.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And he actually said, "I think." So he was talking about
Dialogue: 0,0:38:42.30,0:38:46.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,different species and maybe those species came from some common ancestor,
Dialogue: 0,0:38:46.57,0:38:49.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but, actually, when it comes to finches, we actually would agree,
Dialogue: 0,0:38:49.43,0:38:54.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as Creationists, that different finch species came from a common ancestor, but a finch.
Dialogue: 0,0:38:54.33,0:38:57.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That's what they would have to come from.
Dialogue: 0,0:38:57.33,0:39:01.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And see, Darwin wasn't just thinking about species.
Dialogue: 0,0:39:01.13,0:39:04.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Darwin had a much bigger picture in mind.
Dialogue: 0,0:39:04.13,0:39:07.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,When you look at the Origins of Species and read that book,
Dialogue: 0,0:39:07.59,0:39:10.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you'll find he made this statement: from such low and intermediate form,
Dialogue: 0,0:39:10.90,0:39:13.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,both animals and plants may have been developed;
Dialogue: 0,0:39:13.06,0:39:15.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and, if we admit this, we must likewise admit that
Dialogue: 0,0:39:15.96,0:39:18.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,all organic beings which have ever lived on this Earth
Dialogue: 0,0:39:18.96,0:39:22.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,may be descended from some one primordial form.
Dialogue: 0,0:39:22.28,0:39:27.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So he had in mind what we today know as an evolutionary tree of life,
Dialogue: 0,0:39:27.93,0:39:31.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that all life has arisen from some primordial form.
Dialogue: 0,0:39:31.85,0:39:35.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Now, when you consider the classifications system,
Dialogue: 0,0:39:35.29,0:39:37.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,kingdom phylum class or the family genus species,
Dialogue: 0,0:39:37.87,0:39:41.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we would say, as Creationists, we have many creation scientists
Dialogue: 0,0:39:41.70,0:39:43.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that research this and, for lots of reasons,
Dialogue: 0,0:39:43.60,0:39:47.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I would say, the kind in Genesis 1 is really more at
Dialogue: 0,0:39:47.10,0:39:50.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the family level of classification. For instance, there's one dog kind.
Dialogue: 0,0:39:50.77,0:39:53.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There's one cat kind. Even though you have different
Dialogue: 0,0:39:53.40,0:39:55.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,generative species, that would mean, by the way,
Dialogue: 0,0:39:55.69,0:39:57.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you didn't need anywhere near the number of animals
Dialogue: 0,0:39:57.80,0:39:59.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on the ark as people think.
Dialogue: 0,0:39:59.22,0:40:01.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You wouldn't need all the species of dogs, just two.
Dialogue: 0,0:40:01.03,0:40:02.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Not all the species of cats--just two.
Dialogue: 0,0:40:02.90,0:40:06.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And, you see, based on the biblical account there in Genesis One,
Dialogue: 0,0:40:06.60,0:40:10.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Creationists have drawn up what they believe is a creation origin.
Dialogue: 0,0:40:10.35,0:40:13.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In other words, they're saying, "Look. There's great variation
Dialogue: 0,0:40:13.22,0:40:16.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in the genetics of dogs and finches and so on."
Dialogue: 0,0:40:16.25,0:40:19.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so, over time, particularly after Noah's flood,
Dialogue: 0,0:40:19.37,0:40:21.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you'd expect if there were two dogs, for instance,
Dialogue: 0,0:40:21.60,0:40:23.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you could end up with different species of dogs because
Dialogue: 0,0:40:23.77,0:40:28.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,there's an incredible amount of variability in the genes of any creature.
Dialogue: 0,0:40:28.95,0:40:33.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so you'd expect these different species up here, but there's limits.
Dialogue: 0,0:40:33.50,0:40:36.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Dogs will always be dogs, finches will always be finches.
Dialogue: 0,0:40:36.43,0:40:42.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Now, as a Creationist, I maintain that observational science
Dialogue: 0,0:40:42.07,0:40:45.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,actually confirms this model, based on the bible.
Dialogue: 0,0:40:45.98,0:40:49.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,For instance, take dogs. Okay?
Dialogue: 0,0:40:49.53,0:40:53.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In a scientific paper dated January 2014--that's this year--
Dialogue: 0,0:40:53.83,0:40:58.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,scientists working at the University of California stated this:
Dialogue: 0,0:40:58.07,0:41:00.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We provide several lines of evidence supporting
Dialogue: 0,0:41:00.56,0:41:04.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a single origin for dogs, and disfavoring alternative models
Dialogue: 0,0:41:04.50,0:41:06.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in which dog lineages arise separately
Dialogue: 0,0:41:06.83,0:41:09.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,from geographically distinct wolf populations.
Dialogue: 0,0:41:09.60,0:41:11.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And they put this diagram in the paper.
Dialogue: 0,0:41:11.88,0:41:14.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,By the way, that diagram is very, very similar
Dialogue: 0,0:41:14.30,0:41:17.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to this diagram that Creationists proposed based upon
Dialogue: 0,0:41:17.60,0:41:20.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the creation account in Genesis. In other words,
Dialogue: 0,0:41:20.83,0:41:22.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you have a common dog ancestor that gives rise
Dialogue: 0,0:41:22.46,0:41:25.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to the different species of dogs, and that's exactly
Dialogue: 0,0:41:25.36,0:41:28.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,what we're saying here. Now, in the Creation Museum,
Dialogue: 0,0:41:28.13,0:41:31.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we actually show the finches here and you see the finches
Dialogue: 0,0:41:31.30,0:41:34.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with their different beaks, beside dogs skulls, different species of dogs.
Dialogue: 0,0:41:34.77,0:41:37.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,By the way, there's more variation in the dog skeleton
Dialogue: 0,0:41:37.88,0:41:41.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,here than there are in these finches. Yet, the dogs,
Dialogue: 0,0:41:41.06,0:41:42.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,wow, that's never used as an example of evolution,
Dialogue: 0,0:41:42.93,0:41:45.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but the finches are, particularly in the public school textbooks.
Dialogue: 0,0:41:45.80,0:41:49.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Students are taught, "Ah! See the changes that are occurring here?"
Dialogue: 0,0:41:49.10,0:41:51.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And here's another problem that we've got.
Dialogue: 0,0:41:51.30,0:41:55.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Not only has the word "science" been hijacked by secularists,
Dialogue: 0,0:41:55.91,0:41:59.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I believe the word "evolution" has been hijacked by secularists.
Dialogue: 0,0:41:59.85,0:42:03.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The word "evolution" has been hijacked using what I call a bait and switch.
Dialogue: 0,0:42:03.96,0:42:05.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Let me explain to you.
Dialogue: 0,0:42:05.95,0:42:09.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The word "evolution" is being used in public school textbooks,
Dialogue: 0,0:42:09.83,0:42:11.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and we often see it in documentaries and so on,
Dialogue: 0,0:42:11.83,0:42:15.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is used for observable changes that we would agree with,
Dialogue: 0,0:42:15.10,0:42:19.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and then used for unobservable changes, such as molecules-to-man.
Dialogue: 0,0:42:19.79,0:42:21.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Let me explain to you what's really going on because
Dialogue: 0,0:42:21.76,0:42:23.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I was a science teacher in the public schools
Dialogue: 0,0:42:23.56,0:42:25.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I know what the students were taught and I checked
Dialogue: 0,0:42:25.96,0:42:28.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the public school textbooks anyway to know what they're taught.
Dialogue: 0,0:42:28.60,0:42:31.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,See, students are taught today, look, there's all
Dialogue: 0,0:42:31.03,0:42:34.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,these different animals, plants, but they're all part
Dialogue: 0,0:42:34.03,0:42:37.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of this great, big tree of life that goes back to some primordial form.
Dialogue: 0,0:42:37.30,0:42:39.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And, look, we see changes. Changes in finches,
Dialogue: 0,0:42:39.47,0:42:42.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,changes in dogs and so on. Now, we don't deny the changes.
Dialogue: 0,0:42:42.66,0:42:45.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You see that. You see different species of finches, different species of dogs.
Dialogue: 0,0:42:45.50,0:42:48.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But then they put it all together in this evolutionary tree--
Dialogue: 0,0:42:48.20,0:42:50.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but that's what you don't observe. You don't observe that.
Dialogue: 0,0:42:50.39,0:42:53.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That's belief there. That's the historical science
Dialogue: 0,0:42:53.65,0:42:57.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that I would say is wrong. But, you know, what you do observe,
Dialogue: 0,0:42:57.83,0:43:03.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you do observe different species of dogs, different species of finches,
Dialogue: 0,0:43:03.03,0:43:06.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but then there are limits. You don't see one kind changing into another.
Dialogue: 0,0:43:06.56,0:43:12.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Actually, we're told that if you teach creation
Dialogue: 0,0:43:12.05,0:43:14.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in the public schools as teaching religion,
Dialogue: 0,0:43:14.37,0:43:17.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,if you teach evolution as science, I'm gonna say, "Wait a minute!"
Dialogue: 0,0:43:17.28,0:43:21.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Actually, the creation model here, based upon the Bible,
Dialogue: 0,0:43:21.33,0:43:24.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,observational science confirms this. This is what you're observe!
Dialogue: 0,0:43:24.28,0:43:25.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You don't observe this tree.
Dialogue: 0,0:43:25.98,0:43:29.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Actually, it's the public school textbooks that are teaching a belief,
Dialogue: 0,0:43:29.43,0:43:32.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,imposing it on students, and they need to be teaching them
Dialogue: 0,0:43:32.28,0:43:36.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,observational science to understand the reality of what's happening.
Dialogue: 0,0:43:36.47,0:43:40.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Now, what we found is that public school textbooks present
Dialogue: 0,0:43:40.56,0:43:44.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the evolutionary tree as science, but reject the creation orchard as religion.
Dialogue: 0,0:43:44.93,0:43:47.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But observational science confirms the creation orchard--
Dialogue: 0,0:43:47.76,0:43:50.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so public school textbooks are rejecting observational science
Dialogue: 0,0:43:50.100,0:43:53.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and imposing a naturalistic religion on students.
Dialogue: 0,0:43:53.89,0:43:57.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The word "evolution" has been hijacked using a bait and switch
Dialogue: 0,0:43:57.29,0:44:00.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to indoctrinate students to accept evolutionary belief
Dialogue: 0,0:44:00.50,0:44:01.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as observational science.
Dialogue: 0,0:44:02.37,0:44:05.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Let me introduce you to another scientist, Richard Lenski,
Dialogue: 0,0:44:05.97,0:44:08.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,from Michigan State University. He's a great scientist,
Dialogue: 0,0:44:08.83,0:44:11.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,he's known for culturing e-coli in the lab...
Dialogue: 0,0:44:11.72,0:44:15.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and he found there was some e-coli that actually seemed
Dialogue: 0,0:44:15.58,0:44:19.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to develop the ability to grow on cistrate on substrate.
Dialogue: 0,0:44:23.38,0:44:27.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But Richard Lenski is here, mentioned in this book,
Dialogue: 0,0:44:28.26,0:44:31.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and it's called "Evolution in the Lab".
Dialogue: 0,0:44:31.41,0:44:35.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So the ability to grow on citrate is said to be evolution.
Dialogue: 0,0:44:35.79,0:44:39.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And there are those that say, "Hey! This is against the Creationist."
Dialogue: 0,0:44:39.80,0:44:42.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,For instance, Jerry Coin from University of Chicago says,
Dialogue: 0,0:44:42.99,0:44:45.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"Lenski's experiment is also yet another poke in the eye
Dialogue: 0,0:44:45.75,0:44:47.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for anti-evolutionists."
Dialogue: 0,0:44:47.31,0:44:50.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,He says, "The thing I like most is it says you can get
Dialogue: 0,0:44:50.82,0:44:54.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,these complex traits evolving by a combination of unlikely events."
Dialogue: 0,0:44:54.48,0:44:57.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But is it a poke in the eye for anti-evolutionists?
Dialogue: 0,0:44:57.94,0:45:01.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Is it really seeing complex traits evolving?
Dialogue: 0,0:45:01.60,0:45:06.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What does it mean that some of these bacteria are able to grow on citrate?
Dialogue: 0,0:45:06.41,0:45:10.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Let me introduce you to another biblical Creationist, who is a scientist.
Dialogue: 0,0:45:10.57,0:45:12.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Hi, my name's Dr. Andrew Fabich.
Dialogue: 0,0:45:12.78,0:45:16.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I got my PhD from University of Oklahoma in Microbiology.
Dialogue: 0,0:45:16.25,0:45:20.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I teach at Liberty University and I do research on e-coli in the intestine.
Dialogue: 0,0:45:20.56,0:45:25.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I've published it in secular journals from the American Society for Microbiology,
Dialogue: 0,0:45:26.16,0:45:30.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,including infection immunity and applied environmental microbiology
Dialogue: 0,0:45:30.81,0:45:32.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as well as several others.
Dialogue: 0,0:45:32.02,0:45:35.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,My work has been cited even in the past year in the journals Nature,
Dialogue: 0,0:45:35.41,0:45:38.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Science Translational Medicine, Public Library of Science,
Dialogue: 0,0:45:38.04,0:45:41.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Public Library of Science Genetics. It's cited regularly
Dialogue: 0,0:45:41.68,0:45:46.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in those journals and while I was taught nothing but evolution,
Dialogue: 0,0:45:46.46,0:45:48.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I don't accept that position.
Dialogue: 0,0:45:48.09,0:45:50.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I do my research from a creation perspective.
Dialogue: 0,0:45:50.80,0:45:54.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,When I look at the evidence that people cite as e-coli,
Dialogue: 0,0:45:54.27,0:46:01.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,supposedly, evolving over 30 years, over 30,000 generations in the lab,
Dialogue: 0,0:46:01.03,0:46:04.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and people say that it is now able to grow on citrate,
Dialogue: 0,0:46:04.07,0:46:06.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I don't deny that it grows on citrate,
Dialogue: 0,0:46:06.08,0:46:08.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but it's not any kind of new information.
Dialogue: 0,0:46:08.51,0:46:11.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The information's already there and it's just a switch
Dialogue: 0,0:46:11.92,0:46:15.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that gets turned on and off and that's what they reported in there.
Dialogue: 0,0:46:15.76,0:46:17.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There's nothing new.
Dialogue: 0,0:46:17.38,0:46:20.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,See, students need to be told what's really going on here.
Dialogue: 0,0:46:20.17,0:46:24.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Certainly there's change, but it's not change necessary for molecules-to-man.
Dialogue: 0,0:46:25.10,0:46:26.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Now, we could look at other predictions.
Dialogue: 0,0:46:26.95,0:46:29.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What about evidence confirming one race?
Dialogue: 0,0:46:29.21,0:46:32.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Well, when we look at the human population we see lots of differences.
Dialogue: 0,0:46:32.86,0:46:35.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But based on Darwin's ideas of human evolution,
Dialogue: 0,0:46:35.17,0:46:37.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as presented in The Descent of Man, I mean,
Dialogue: 0,0:46:37.46,0:46:39.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Darwin did teach in The Descent of Man there were
Dialogue: 0,0:46:39.34,0:46:41.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,lower races and higher races.
Dialogue: 0,0:46:41.07,0:46:44.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Would you believe, that back in the 1900s, one of the most
Dialogue: 0,0:46:44.42,0:46:49.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,popular biology textbooks used in the public schools in America taught this:
Dialogue: 0,0:46:49.56,0:46:51.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,At the present time there exists upon Earth
Dialogue: 0,0:46:51.97,0:46:54.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,five races or varieties of man...and finally,
Dialogue: 0,0:46:54.90,0:46:58.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the highest type of all, the Caucasians, represented
Dialogue: 0,0:46:58.30,0:47:00.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,by the civilized white inhabitants of Europe and America.
Dialogue: 0,0:47:00.86,0:47:03.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Can you imagine if that was in the public schools today?
Dialogue: 0,0:47:03.28,0:47:06.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And, yet, that's what was taught, but it was based on
Dialogue: 0,0:47:06.38,0:47:10.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Darwin's ideas that are wrong. You have a wrong foundation.
Dialogue: 0,0:47:10.96,0:47:12.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You're gonna have a wrong worldview.
Dialogue: 0,0:47:12.44,0:47:15.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Now, had they started from the Bible, and from
Dialogue: 0,0:47:15.71,0:47:18.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the creation account in the Bible, what does it teach?
Dialogue: 0,0:47:18.33,0:47:20.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Well, we're all descendants of Adam and Eve.
Dialogue: 0,0:47:20.53,0:47:22.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We go through the Tower of Babel, different languages,
Dialogue: 0,0:47:22.75,0:47:25.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so different people groups formed distinct characteristics.
Dialogue: 0,0:47:25.37,0:47:27.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But we'd expect, we'd say, you know what,
Dialogue: 0,0:47:27.52,0:47:30.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that means there's biologically only one race of humans.
Dialogue: 0,0:47:30.48,0:47:33.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Well, I mentioned Dr. Venter before.
Dialogue: 0,0:47:33.03,0:47:36.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And he was a researcher with the human genome project.
Dialogue: 0,0:47:36.10,0:47:39.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And you'll remember, in the year 2000, this was headline news,
Dialogue: 0,0:47:39.24,0:47:41.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and what we read was this: they had put together
Dialogue: 0,0:47:41.92,0:47:44.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a draft of the entire sequence of the human genome
Dialogue: 0,0:47:44.50,0:47:48.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and unanimously declared, there is only one race - the human race.
Dialogue: 0,0:47:48.42,0:47:49.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Wow! Who would have guessed?
Dialogue: 0,0:47:49.93,0:47:52.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But you see there we have observational science
Dialogue: 0,0:47:52.41,0:47:54.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,confirming the Creation account,
Dialogue: 0,0:47:54.74,0:47:58.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,not confirming at all Darwin's ideas.
Dialogue: 0,0:47:58.36,0:48:00.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Now, there's much more that can be said
Dialogue: 0,0:48:00.10,0:48:01.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on each of these topics.
Dialogue: 0,0:48:01.50,0:48:04.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Obviously, you can't do that in a short time like this.
Dialogue: 0,0:48:04.69,0:48:06.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And you could do a lot more research.
Dialogue: 0,0:48:06.37,0:48:09.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I suggest you visit our website at Answers in Genesis
Dialogue: 0,0:48:09.46,0:48:11.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for a lot more information.
Dialogue: 0,0:48:11.18,0:48:14.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, the debate topic: Is creation a viable model
Dialogue: 0,0:48:14.61,0:48:17.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of origins in today's scientific era?
Dialogue: 0,0:48:17.23,0:48:19.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I said, we need to define the terms,
Dialogue: 0,0:48:19.71,0:48:21.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and particularly, the term science
Dialogue: 0,0:48:21.29,0:48:23.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the term evolution. And I believe we need
Dialogue: 0,0:48:23.77,0:48:25.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to understand how they are being used to impose
Dialogue: 0,0:48:25.58,0:48:29.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,an anti-God religion on generations of unsuspecting students.
Dialogue: 0,0:48:29.86,0:48:32.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You see, I keep emphasizing we do need to
Dialogue: 0,0:48:32.04,0:48:33.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,understand the difference between experimental or
Dialogue: 0,0:48:33.98,0:48:37.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,observational science and historical science.
Dialogue: 0,0:48:37.05,0:48:38.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And you know what?
Dialogue: 0,0:48:38.66,0:48:40.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The secularists don't like me doing this
Dialogue: 0,0:48:40.07,0:48:41.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because they don't want to admit
Dialogue: 0,0:48:41.75,0:48:43.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that there's a belief aspect to what they're saying.
Dialogue: 0,0:48:43.94,0:48:46.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And there is. And they can't get away from it.
Dialogue: 0,0:48:46.28,0:48:48.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Let me illustrate this with a statement from Bill Nye.
Dialogue: 0,0:48:48.96,0:48:50.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"You can show the Earth is not flat.
Dialogue: 0,0:48:50.89,0:48:53.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You can show the Earth is not 10,000 years old."
Dialogue: 0,0:48:53.27,0:48:55.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,By the way, I agree. You can show the Earth is not flat.
Dialogue: 0,0:48:55.65,0:48:58.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There's a video from the Galileo spacecraft showing
Dialogue: 0,0:48:58.50,0:49:00.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the Earth, and speeded up of course, but spinning.
Dialogue: 0,0:49:00.91,0:49:03.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You can see it's a sphere. You can observe that.
Dialogue: 0,0:49:03.40,0:49:05.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You can't observe the age of the Earth.
Dialogue: 0,0:49:05.90,0:49:08.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You don't see that. You see again, I emphasize,
Dialogue: 0,0:49:08.21,0:49:10.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,there's a big difference between historical science,
Dialogue: 0,0:49:10.43,0:49:13.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,talking about the past, and observational science,
Dialogue: 0,0:49:13.52,0:49:15.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,talking about the present.
Dialogue: 0,0:49:15.56,0:49:18.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I believe what's happening is this, that students are being
Dialogue: 0,0:49:18.32,0:49:20.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,indoctrinated by the confusion of terms:
Dialogue: 0,0:49:20.85,0:49:22.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the hijacking of the word science and the hijacking
Dialogue: 0,0:49:22.83,0:49:26.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the word evolution in a bait-and-switch.
Dialogue: 0,0:49:26.40,0:49:28.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Let me illustrate further with this video clip.
Dialogue: 0,0:49:29.15,0:49:31.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Because here I assert that Bill Nye is equating
Dialogue: 0,0:49:31.89,0:49:34.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,observational science with historical science.
Dialogue: 0,0:49:34.80,0:49:38.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I also say it's not a mystery when you understand the difference.
Dialogue: 0,0:49:38.52,0:49:42.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Howie, people with these deeply held religious beliefs,
Dialogue: 0,0:49:42.18,0:49:45.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they embrace that whole literal interpretation
Dialogue: 0,0:49:45.74,0:49:49.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the Bible as written in English, as a worldview.
Dialogue: 0,0:49:50.03,0:49:54.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And, at the same time, they accept aspirin,
Dialogue: 0,0:49:54.53,0:49:58.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,antibiotic drugs, airplanes, but they're able
Dialogue: 0,0:49:58.84,0:50:01.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to hold these two worldviews. And this is a mystery.
Dialogue: 0,0:50:02.38,0:50:04.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Actually, I suggest to you it's not a mystery.
Dialogue: 0,0:50:04.84,0:50:06.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You see, when I'm talking about antibiotics,
Dialogue: 0,0:50:06.62,0:50:09.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,aspirin, smoke detectors, jet planes,
Dialogue: 0,0:50:09.38,0:50:12.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that's Ken Ham the Observational Science Bloke.
Dialogue: 0,0:50:12.56,0:50:15.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'm an Australian. We call guy's "blokes", okay?
Dialogue: 0,0:50:15.97,0:50:18.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But when you're talking about creation and thousands of years
Dialogue: 0,0:50:18.24,0:50:19.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the age of the Earth,
Dialogue: 0,0:50:19.26,0:50:20.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that's Ken Ham the Historical Science Bloke.
Dialogue: 0,0:50:20.81,0:50:22.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'm willing to admit that.
Dialogue: 0,0:50:22.22,0:50:24.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Now, when Bill Nye's talking about aspirin,
Dialogue: 0,0:50:24.26,0:50:26.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,antibiotics, jet planes, smoke detectors,
Dialogue: 0,0:50:26.32,0:50:27.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,he does a great job at that.
Dialogue: 0,0:50:27.67,0:50:29.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I used to enjoy watching him on TV too.
Dialogue: 0,0:50:30.64,0:50:32.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That's Bill Nye the Observational Science Guy.
Dialogue: 0,0:50:32.79,0:50:35.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But when he's talking about evolution and millions of years,
Dialogue: 0,0:50:35.07,0:50:38.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'm challenging him that that's Bill Nye the Historical Science Guy.
Dialogue: 0,0:50:39.29,0:50:42.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I challenge the evolutionist to admit the belief
Dialogue: 0,0:50:42.44,0:50:46.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,aspects of their particular worldview.
Dialogue: 0,0:50:46.71,0:50:49.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Now, at the Creation Museum, we're only too willing
Dialogue: 0,0:50:49.33,0:50:51.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to admit our beliefs based upon the Bible,
Dialogue: 0,0:50:51.51,0:50:53.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but we also teach people the difference between
Dialogue: 0,0:50:53.55,0:50:55.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,beliefs and what one can actually observe
Dialogue: 0,0:50:55.75,0:50:57.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and experiment with in the present.
Dialogue: 0,0:50:57.07,0:50:59.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I believe we're teaching people to think critically
Dialogue: 0,0:50:59.60,0:51:02.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and to think in the right terms about science.
Dialogue: 0,0:51:03.16,0:51:04.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I believe it's the creationists that should be
Dialogue: 0,0:51:04.89,0:51:08.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,educating the kids out there because we're teaching
Dialogue: 0,0:51:08.20,0:51:10.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,them the right way to think. You know, we admit it.
Dialogue: 0,0:51:10.92,0:51:13.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Our origins of historical science is based upon the Bible,
Dialogue: 0,0:51:13.81,0:51:15.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but I'm just challenging evolutionists to admit
Dialogue: 0,0:51:15.90,0:51:17.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the belief aspects of evolution
Dialogue: 0,0:51:17.53,0:51:19.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and be upfront about the difference here.
Dialogue: 0,0:51:20.21,0:51:22.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,As I said, I'm only too willing to admit
Dialogue: 0,0:51:22.12,0:51:24.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,my historical science based on the Bible.
Dialogue: 0,0:51:25.19,0:51:30.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And let me further go on to define the term "creation" as we use it.
Dialogue: 0,0:51:30.94,0:51:34.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,By creation, we mean, here at Answers in Genesis
Dialogue: 0,0:51:34.01,0:51:37.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the Creation Museum, we mean the account based on the Bible.
Dialogue: 0,0:51:37.63,0:51:41.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Yes, I take Genesis as literal history, as Jesus did.
Dialogue: 0,0:51:41.30,0:51:44.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And, here at the Creation Museum, we walk people through that history.
Dialogue: 0,0:51:44.96,0:51:47.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We walk them through creation, the perfect creation.
Dialogue: 0,0:51:47.60,0:51:51.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That God made Adam and Eve, land animal kinds, sea-creatures and so on.
Dialogue: 0,0:51:51.96,0:51:54.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And then sin and death entered the world.
Dialogue: 0,0:51:54.34,0:51:56.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There was no death before sin.
Dialogue: 0,0:51:56.98,0:52:01.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That means how can you have billions of dead things before man sinned?
Dialogue: 0,0:52:01.01,0:52:05.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And then, the catastrophe of Noah's flood. If there was a global flood,
Dialogue: 0,0:52:05.65,0:52:09.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you'd expect to find billions of dead things buried in rock layers laid down by water all over the earth.
Dialogue: 0,0:52:09.80,0:52:13.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Had to say that because a lot of our supporters would want me to.
Dialogue: 0,0:52:13.49,0:52:18.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And what do you find?--Billions of dead things buried in rock layers laid down by water all over the earth.
Dialogue: 0,0:52:18.00,0:52:22.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Confusion, the tower of Babel. God gave different languages so you get different people groups.
Dialogue: 0,0:52:22.70,0:52:28.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So this is the geological, astronomical, anthropological, biological history as recorded in the Bible.
Dialogue: 0,0:52:28.42,0:52:31.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So this is concerning what happened in the past that explains the present.
Dialogue: 0,0:52:31.83,0:52:36.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And then, of course, that God's Son stepped into history to be Jesus Christ, the God-Man
Dialogue: 0,0:52:36.48,0:52:39.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to die on the cross, be raised from the dead. And one day there's going to be
Dialogue: 0,0:52:39.39,0:52:43.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a new heavens and a new earth to come. And, you know, not only
Dialogue: 0,0:52:44.05,0:52:47.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is this an understanding of history to explain the
Dialogue: 0,0:52:47.61,0:52:51.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,geology, biology, astronomy, and so on to connect the present to the past.
Dialogue: 0,0:52:51.71,0:52:54.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But it's also a foundation for our whole world view.
Dialogue: 0,0:52:54.29,0:52:58.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,For instance, in Matthew 19, when Jesus was asked about marriage, he said,
Dialogue: 0,0:52:58.52,0:53:02.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"Have you not read He who made them at the beginning made them male and female?"
Dialogue: 0,0:53:02.44,0:53:06.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And said, "For this cause shall a man leave his mother and father and be joined to his wife. And they'll be one flesh"
Dialogue: 0,0:53:06.86,0:53:12.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,He quoted from Genesis as literal history--Genesis 1 and 2. God invented marriage, by the way.
Dialogue: 0,0:53:12.39,0:53:15.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That's where marriage comes from. And it's to be a man and a woman.
Dialogue: 0,0:53:15.60,0:53:20.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And not only marriage. Ultimately, every single Biblical doctrine of theology
Dialogue: 0,0:53:20.14,0:53:22.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,directly or indirectly, is founded in Genesis.
Dialogue: 0,0:53:22.52,0:53:24.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Why is there sin in the world? Genesis.
Dialogue: 0,0:53:24.100,0:53:26.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Why is there death? Genesis.
Dialogue: 0,0:53:26.84,0:53:28.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Why do we wear clothes? Genesis.
Dialogue: 0,0:53:28.33,0:53:29.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Why did Jesus die on the cross? Genesis.
Dialogue: 0,0:53:29.56,0:53:33.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's a very important book. It's foundational to all Christian doctrine.
Dialogue: 0,0:53:33.13,0:53:36.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And you see, when we look at that, what I call the seven C's of History
Dialogue: 0,0:53:36.70,0:53:38.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that we walk people through here at the museum,
Dialogue: 0,0:53:38.67,0:53:41.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,think about how it all connects together--a perfect creation.
Dialogue: 0,0:53:41.48,0:53:43.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It'll be perfect again in the future.
Dialogue: 0,0:53:43.72,0:53:47.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Sin and death--end of the world. That's why God's son died on the cross
Dialogue: 0,0:53:47.60,0:53:50.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to conquer death and offer a free gift of salvation.
Dialogue: 0,0:53:50.46,0:53:53.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The flood of Noah's day, a reminder that the flood was a
Dialogue: 0,0:53:53.67,0:53:56.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,judgement because of man's wickedness but at the same time
Dialogue: 0,0:53:56.32,0:53:58.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a message of God's grace and salvation.
Dialogue: 0,0:53:58.56,0:54:01.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,As Noah and his family had to go through a door to be saved,
Dialogue: 0,0:54:01.12,0:54:03.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so we need to go through a door to be saved.
Dialogue: 0,0:54:03.28,0:54:05.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Jesus Christ said, "I am the door. By me, if any man
Dialogue: 0,0:54:05.46,0:54:08.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,enter in, he'll be saved. And we make no apology
Dialogue: 0,0:54:08.82,0:54:11.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about the fact that what we're on about is this:
Dialogue: 0,0:54:11.30,0:54:13.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"If you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and
Dialogue: 0,0:54:13.53,0:54:15.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,believe in your heart God has raised him from the dead,
Dialogue: 0,0:54:15.45,0:54:17.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you'll be saved. Now, as soon as I said that,
Dialogue: 0,0:54:17.84,0:54:20.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,see if people say, "See, if you allow creation in schools,
Dialogue: 0,0:54:20.32,0:54:22.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for instance, if you'll ask students to even hear about it,
Dialogue: 0,0:54:22.52,0:54:24.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,ah, this is religion."
Dialogue: 0,0:54:24.65,0:54:26.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You know, let me illustrate this,
Dialogue: 0,0:54:26.38,0:54:30.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,talking about a recent battle in Texas over textbooks
Dialogue: 0,0:54:30.94,0:54:35.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in the public school. A newspaper report said this:
Dialogue: 0,0:54:35.24,0:54:37.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"Textbook and classroom curriculum battles have long
Dialogue: 0,0:54:37.25,0:54:39.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,raged in Texas pitting creationists - those who see
Dialogue: 0,0:54:39.91,0:54:41.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,God's hand in the creation of the universe-
Dialogue: 0,0:54:41.51,0:54:42.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,against academics..."
Dialogue: 0,0:54:42.88,0:54:45.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Stop right there. Notice creationists... academics.
Dialogue: 0,0:54:45.79,0:54:48.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Creationists can't be academics. Creationists can't be scientists.
Dialogue: 0,0:54:48.100,0:54:51.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,See, it's the way things are worded out there.
Dialogue: 0,0:54:52.03,0:54:53.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's an indoctrination that's going on.
Dialogue: 0,0:54:53.88,0:54:56.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We worry about religious and political ideology
Dialogue: 0,0:54:56.13,0:54:57.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,trumping scientific fact. Wait a minute.
Dialogue: 0,0:54:57.86,0:54:59.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What do I mean by science? You're talking about
Dialogue: 0,0:54:59.13,0:55:02.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,what you observe, or are you talking about your beliefs about the past?
Dialogue: 0,0:55:03.12,0:55:07.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Now, Kathy Miller is the president of the Texas Freedom Network and
Dialogue: 0,0:55:07.06,0:55:16.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,she has vocally spoken out. She's spoken out about this textbook battle there in Texas.
Dialogue: 0,0:55:17.26,0:55:21.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And the mission statement of the organization she's president of says, "The Texas Freedom Network
Dialogue: 0,0:55:21.66,0:55:24.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,advances a mainstream agenda of religious freedom and individual liberties
Dialogue: 0,0:55:24.86,0:55:29.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to counter the religious right." Religious freedom... individual liberties. Hmm.
Dialogue: 0,0:55:29.97,0:55:34.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And then she makes this statement: "Science education..." What does she mean by science?
Dialogue: 0,0:55:34.29,0:55:38.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"should be based on mainstream science education, not on personal idealogical beliefs
Dialogue: 0,0:55:38.56,0:55:43.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of unqualified reviewers." Wait a minute. They want religious liberty and not personal
Dialogue: 0,0:55:43.26,0:55:48.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,ideological beliefs? I assert this: public school textbooks are using the same word "science"
Dialogue: 0,0:55:48.83,0:55:53.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for observational and historical science. They arbitrarily define science as naturalism
Dialogue: 0,0:55:53.37,0:55:57.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and outlaw the supernatural. They present molecules-to-man evolution as as fact.
Dialogue: 0,0:55:57.04,0:56:00.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And they are imposing the religion of naturalism on generations of students.
Dialogue: 0,0:56:00.35,0:56:02.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They're imposing their ideology on the students
Dialogue: 0,0:56:02.83,0:56:04.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and everything's explained by natural processes.
Dialogue: 0,0:56:04.85,0:56:07.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That is a religion. What do you mean by religious liberty?
Dialogue: 0,0:56:07.59,0:56:09.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They tolerate their religion.
Dialogue: 0,0:56:10.40,0:56:12.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,See, the battle is really about authority.
Dialogue: 0,0:56:12.55,0:56:14.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's more than just science or evolution or creation.
Dialogue: 0,0:56:14.98,0:56:18.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's about who is the authority in this world, man or God?
Dialogue: 0,0:56:18.67,0:56:22.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If you start with naturalism, then what about morals?
Dialogue: 0,0:56:22.73,0:56:24.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Who decides right and wrong? Well, it's subjective.
Dialogue: 0,0:56:24.81,0:56:27.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Marriage? Well, whatever you want it to be.
Dialogue: 0,0:56:27.29,0:56:29.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Get rid of old people. I mean, why not?
Dialogue: 0,0:56:29.64,0:56:31.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They're just animals, they're costing us a lot of money.
Dialogue: 0,0:56:31.76,0:56:35.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Abortion. Get rid of spare cats, get rid of spare kids. We're all animals.
Dialogue: 0,0:56:35.19,0:56:38.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But if you start from God's word, there are moral absolutes.
Dialogue: 0,0:56:38.28,0:56:40.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,God decides right and wrong. Marriage--one man and one woman.
Dialogue: 0,0:56:40.97,0:56:44.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Sanctity of life--we care for old people. They're made in the image of God.
Dialogue: 0,0:56:44.23,0:56:47.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Life begins at fertilization, so abortion is killing a human being.
Dialogue: 0,0:56:48.26,0:56:50.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We do see the collapse of Christian morality
Dialogue: 0,0:56:50.47,0:56:53.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in our culture and increasing moral relativism
Dialogue: 0,0:56:53.16,0:56:56.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because generations of kids are being taught the religion
Dialogue: 0,0:56:56.07,0:56:59.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of naturalism and that the Bible can't be trusted.
Dialogue: 0,0:56:59.25,0:57:03.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so, again, I say creation is the only viable model
Dialogue: 0,0:57:03.07,0:57:05.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of historical science confirmed by observational science
Dialogue: 0,0:57:05.85,0:57:08.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in today's modern scientific era. You know what?
Dialogue: 0,0:57:08.28,0:57:10.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'm a science teacher. I want to see kids taught science.
Dialogue: 0,0:57:10.90,0:57:14.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I love science. I want to see more (inaudible) in the world.
Dialogue: 0,0:57:14.47,0:57:16.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You know, if we teach them the whole universe
Dialogue: 0,0:57:16.32,0:57:19.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is a result of natural processes and not designed
Dialogue: 0,0:57:19.39,0:57:22.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,by a creative God, they might be looking in the wrong places
Dialogue: 0,0:57:22.39,0:57:24.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or have the wrong idea when they're looking
Dialogue: 0,0:57:24.34,0:57:27.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,at the creation in regard to how you develop technology
Dialogue: 0,0:57:27.59,0:57:30.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because if they look at it as just random processes,
Dialogue: 0,0:57:30.70,0:57:33.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that could totally influence the way they think.
Dialogue: 0,0:57:33.44,0:57:36.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If they understand it was a perfect world marred by sin,
Dialogue: 0,0:57:36.11,0:57:38.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that could have a great affect on how they then look
Dialogue: 0,0:57:38.96,0:57:41.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for overcoming diseases and problems in the world.
Dialogue: 0,0:57:42.20,0:57:45.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I want children to be taught the right foundation,
Dialogue: 0,0:57:45.62,0:57:47.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that there's a God who created them, who loves them,
Dialogue: 0,0:57:47.86,0:57:52.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who died on the cross for them and that they're special.
Dialogue: 0,0:57:52.13,0:57:53.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They're made in the image of God.
Dialogue: 0,0:57:55.07,0:57:56.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(moderator) There you go. Thank you, Mr. Ham.
Dialogue: 0,0:57:56.58,0:58:11.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,-We can applaud Mr. Ham's presentation.\N-(audience applauds)
Dialogue: 0,0:58:11.82,0:58:14.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And, you know, it did occur to me when you had
Dialogue: 0,0:58:14.08,0:58:16.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,my old friend Larry King up there, you could've just asked him.
Dialogue: 0,0:58:17.28,0:58:20.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,He's been around a long time. And he's a smart guy!
Dialogue: 0,0:58:20.50,0:58:25.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,He could probably answer for all of us. Now, let's all be
Dialogue: 0,0:58:25.09,0:58:28.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,attentive to Mr. Nye as he gives us his 30 minute presentation.
Dialogue: 0,0:58:28.67,0:58:31.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Thank you very much and, Mr. Ham, I learned something.
Dialogue: 0,0:58:31.88,0:58:37.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Thank you. But let's take it back around to question at hand:
Dialogue: 0,0:58:37.48,0:58:41.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,does Ken Ham's creation model hold up? Is it viable?
Dialogue: 0,0:58:42.59,0:58:46.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, for me, of course...well...take a look.
Dialogue: 0,0:58:46.90,0:58:53.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We're here in Kentucky on layer upon layer upon layer of limestone.
Dialogue: 0,0:58:53.49,0:58:56.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I stopped at the side of the road today and picked up
Dialogue: 0,0:58:56.40,0:59:00.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,just a piece of limestone. It has a fossil right there.
Dialogue: 0,0:59:00.51,0:59:05.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Now, in these many, many layers, in this vicinity of Kentucky,
Dialogue: 0,0:59:05.47,0:59:10.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,there are coral animal--fossils, Zooxanthella--
Dialogue: 0,0:59:10.26,0:59:11.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and when you look at it closely,
Dialogue: 0,0:59:11.91,0:59:14.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you can see that they lived their entire lives.
Dialogue: 0,0:59:14.45,0:59:18.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They lived typically 20 years, sometimes more than that
Dialogue: 0,0:59:18.57,0:59:20.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,when the water conditions are correct.
Dialogue: 0,0:59:20.82,0:59:26.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so we are standing on millions of layers of ancient life.
Dialogue: 0,0:59:27.22,0:59:30.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,How could those animals have lived their entire life,
Dialogue: 0,0:59:30.52,0:59:33.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and formed these layers, in just 4,000 years?
Dialogue: 0,0:59:34.22,0:59:38.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There isn't enough time since Mr. Ham's flood
Dialogue: 0,0:59:38.74,0:59:43.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for this limestone that we're standing on to come into existence.
Dialogue: 0,0:59:46.10,0:59:49.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,My scientific colleagues go to places like Greenland,
Dialogue: 0,0:59:49.10,0:59:52.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the Arctic, they go to Antarctica, and they drill
Dialogue: 0,0:59:52.31,0:59:57.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,into the ice with hollow drill bits. It's not that extraordinary.
Dialogue: 0,0:59:57.21,0:59:59.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Many of you have probably done it yourselves, drilling other things.
Dialogue: 0,0:59:59.82,1:00:02.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Hole saws to put locks in doors, for example.
Dialogue: 0,1:00:03.42,1:00:09.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And we pull out long cylinders of ice, long ice rods.
Dialogue: 0,1:00:09.57,1:00:14.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And these are made of snow and it's called "snow ice".
Dialogue: 0,1:00:14.88,1:00:19.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And snow ice forms over the winter as snowflakes fall
Dialogue: 0,1:00:19.70,1:00:23.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and are crushed down by subsequent layers. They're crushed together,
Dialogue: 0,1:00:23.02,1:00:26.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,entrapping the little bubbles and the little bubbles must
Dialogue: 0,1:00:26.51,1:00:30.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,needs be ancient atmosphere. There's nobody running around
Dialogue: 0,1:00:30.29,1:00:34.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with a hypodermic needle, squirting ancient atmosphere into the bubbles.
Dialogue: 0,1:00:34.60,1:00:41.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And we find certain of these cylinders to have 680,000 layers.
Dialogue: 0,1:00:41.19,1:00:46.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,680,000 snow/winter/summer cycles.
Dialogue: 0,1:00:47.33,1:00:53.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,How could it be that just 4,000 years ago all of this ice formed?
Dialogue: 0,1:00:53.80,1:00:56.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Let's just run some numbers.
Dialogue: 0,1:00:57.18,1:01:00.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This is some scenes from the lovely Antarctic.
Dialogue: 0,1:01:01.52,1:01:05.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Let's say we have 680,000 layers of snow ice
Dialogue: 0,1:01:05.49,1:01:08.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and 4,000 years since the Great Flood.
Dialogue: 0,1:01:08.45,1:01:13.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That would mean we'd need 170 winter-summer cycles
Dialogue: 0,1:01:13.61,1:01:17.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,every year, for the last 4,000 years.
Dialogue: 0,1:01:17.17,1:01:21.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I mean, wouldn't someone have noticed that? Wow!
Dialogue: 0,1:01:21.11,1:01:22.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Wouldn't someone have noticed that there's been
Dialogue: 0,1:01:22.91,1:01:25.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,winter-summer-winter-summer 170 times one year?
Dialogue: 0,1:01:26.69,1:01:33.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If we go to California, we find enormous stands of bristlecone pines.
Dialogue: 0,1:01:33.89,1:01:38.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Some of them are over 6,000 years old. 6,800 years old.
Dialogue: 0,1:01:38.35,1:01:45.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There's a famous tree in Sweden, Old Tjikko, is 9,550 years old.
Dialogue: 0,1:01:45.38,1:01:53.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,How could these trees be there if there was an enormous flood just 4,000 years ago?
Dialogue: 0,1:01:53.38,1:01:55.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You can try this yourself, everybody.
Dialogue: 0,1:01:55.92,1:01:58.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Get, I mean, I don't mean to be mean to trees,
Dialogue: 0,1:01:58.45,1:02:02.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but get a sapling and put it under water for a year.
Dialogue: 0,1:02:02.87,1:02:06.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It will not survive in general. Nor will its seeds.
Dialogue: 0,1:02:06.83,1:02:10.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They just won't make it. So how could these trees
Dialogue: 0,1:02:10.65,1:02:15.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,be that old if the Earth is only 4,000 years old?
Dialogue: 0,1:02:15.28,1:02:18.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Now, when we go to the Grand Canyon--which is an astonishing place
Dialogue: 0,1:02:18.41,1:02:22.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I recommend to everybody in the world to someday visit the Grand Canyon--
Dialogue: 0,1:02:22.62,1:02:25.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you find layer upon layer of ancient rocks.
Dialogue: 0,1:02:26.45,1:02:31.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And if there was this enormous flood that you speak of,
Dialogue: 0,1:02:31.66,1:02:35.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,wouldn't there have been churning and bubbling and roiling?
Dialogue: 0,1:02:35.55,1:02:38.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,How would these things have settled out?
Dialogue: 0,1:02:38.19,1:02:42.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Your claim that they settled out in an extraordinary short amount of time
Dialogue: 0,1:02:43.20,1:02:47.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is for me, not satisfactory. You can look at these rocks. You can look at rocks that are younger.
Dialogue: 0,1:02:47.82,1:02:53.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You can go to seashores where there's sand. This is what geologists on the outside do,
Dialogue: 0,1:02:53.72,1:02:58.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,study the rate at which soil is deposited at the end of rivers and deltas.
Dialogue: 0,1:02:58.87,1:03:06.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And we can see that it takes a long, long time for sediments to turn to stone.
Dialogue: 0,1:03:06.21,1:03:11.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Also, in this picture you can see where one type of sediment has intruded on another type.
Dialogue: 0,1:03:11.88,1:03:18.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Now, if that was uniform, wouldn't we expect it all to be even, without intrusion?
Dialogue: 0,1:03:18.11,1:03:23.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Furthermore, you can find places in the Grand Canyon where you see an ancient riverbed on that side
Dialogue: 0,1:03:23.22,1:03:28.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,going to an ancient riverbed on that side and the Colorado River has cut through it.
Dialogue: 0,1:03:28.15,1:03:34.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And by the way, if this great flood drained through the Grand Canyon,
Dialogue: 0,1:03:34.66,1:03:38.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,wouldn't there have been a Grand Canyon on every continent?
Dialogue: 0,1:03:38.06,1:03:43.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,How could we not have Grand Canyons everywhere if this water drained away in this extraordinary
Dialogue: 0,1:03:43.31,1:03:49.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,short amount of time? Four thousand years? Now when you look at these layers carefully,
Dialogue: 0,1:03:50.25,1:03:56.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you find these beautiful fossils. And when I say beautiful, I am inspired by them. They are remarkable
Dialogue: 0,1:03:56.67,1:04:03.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because we are looking at the past. You find down low. You'll find what you might consider
Dialogue: 0,1:04:03.39,1:04:09.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is, uh, rudimentary sea animals. Up above you'll find the famous trilobytes.
Dialogue: 0,1:04:09.36,1:04:15.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Above that you might find some clams, some oysters. And above that you find some mammals.
Dialogue: 0,1:04:15.32,1:04:22.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You never, ever find a higher animal mixed in with a lower one. You never find a lower one
Dialogue: 0,1:04:22.52,1:04:28.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,trying to swim its way to a higher one. If it all happened in such an extraordinary short amount of time,
Dialogue: 0,1:04:28.37,1:04:33.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,if this water drained away just like that, wouldn't we expect to see some turbulence?
Dialogue: 0,1:04:33.67,1:04:41.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And by the way, anyone here, really, if you can find one example of that, one example of that
Dialogue: 0,1:04:41.40,1:04:47.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,anywhere in the world, the scientists of the world challenge you. They would embrace you. You would be a hero.
Dialogue: 0,1:04:47.73,1:04:52.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You would change the world if you could find one example of that anywhere.
Dialogue: 0,1:04:52.07,1:04:57.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,People have looked, and looked and looked. They have not found a single one.
Dialogue: 0,1:04:58.80,1:05:07.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Now here's an interesting thing. These are fossil skulls that people have found all around the world.
Dialogue: 0,1:05:07.00,1:05:13.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's by no means representative of all the fossil skulls that have been found, but these are all over the place.
Dialogue: 0,1:05:14.01,1:05:24.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Now, if you were to look at these, I can assure you, not any of them is a gorilla. Right?
Dialogue: 0,1:05:24.85,1:05:33.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If as Mr. Ham and his associates claim, there was just man and then everybody else, there were just
Dialogue: 0,1:05:33.51,1:05:39.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,humans and all other species, where would you put modern humans among these skulls?
Dialogue: 0,1:05:40.40,1:05:46.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,How did all these skulls get all over the earth in these extraordinary fashion? Where would you put us?
Dialogue: 0,1:05:47.46,1:05:52.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I can tell you we are on there and I encourage you, when you go home, to look it up.
Dialogue: 0,1:05:54.48,1:06:04.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Now, one of the extraordinary claims associated with Mr. Ham's worldview is that this giant boat
Dialogue: 0,1:06:04.84,1:06:11.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a very large wooden ship, went aground safely on a mountain in the Middle, what we now call the Middle East.
Dialogue: 0,1:06:11.85,1:06:19.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so places like Australia are populated then by animals who somehow managed to get
Dialogue: 0,1:06:20.46,1:06:25.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,from the Middle East all the way to Australia in the last 4,000 years.
Dialogue: 0,1:06:26.15,1:06:32.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Now that, to me, is an extraordinary claim. We would expect then, somewhere between the Middle East
Dialogue: 0,1:06:32.32,1:06:37.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and Australia, we would expect to find evidence of kangaroos. We would expect to find
Dialogue: 0,1:06:37.99,1:06:43.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,some fossils, some bones in the last 4,000 years. Somebody would have been hopping along there
Dialogue: 0,1:06:43.13,1:06:46.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and died along the way, and we'd find them. And furthermore, there's a claim
Dialogue: 0,1:06:46.63,1:06:52.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that there was a land bridge that allowed these animals to get from Asia all the way
Dialogue: 0,1:06:52.26,1:06:57.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to the continent of Australia. And that land bridge has disappeared, has disappeared in the last
Dialogue: 0,1:06:57.86,1:07:05.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,4,000 years. No navigator, no diver, no U.S. Navy submarine, no one has ever detected any evidence
Dialogue: 0,1:07:05.69,1:07:12.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of this, let alone any evidence of fossils of kangaroos. So, your expectation is not met.
Dialogue: 0,1:07:12.14,1:07:20.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It doesn't seem to hold up. So, let's see. If there are 4,000 years since Ken Ham's flood
Dialogue: 0,1:07:20.91,1:07:27.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and let's say, as he said many times, there are 7,000 kinds,
Dialogue: 0,1:07:27.95,1:07:35.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,today the very, very lowest estimate is that there are about 8.7 million species.
Dialogue: 0,1:07:35.31,1:07:39.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But a much more reasonable estimate is it's 50 million, or even 100 million,
Dialogue: 0,1:07:39.83,1:07:45.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,when you start counting the viruses and the bacteria and all the beetles that must be extant
Dialogue: 0,1:07:45.28,1:07:51.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in the tropical rain forests that we haven't found. So we'll take a number which I think is pretty reasonable,
Dialogue: 0,1:07:51.74,1:07:59.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,16 million species today. If these came from 7,000 kinds,
Dialogue: 0,1:07:59.86,1:08:03.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,let's say we have 7,000 subtracted from 15 million,
Dialogue: 0,1:08:03.50,1:08:09.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that's 15,993. If 4,000 years, we have 365.25 days a year,
Dialogue: 0,1:08:10.30,1:08:16.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we would expect to find 11 new species every day.
Dialogue: 0,1:08:16.02,1:08:22.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So you'd go out into your yard, you wouldn't just find a different bird, a new bird
Dialogue: 0,1:08:22.29,1:08:26.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you'd find a different kind of bird, a whole new species, a bird!
Dialogue: 0,1:08:26.76,1:08:31.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Every day, a new species of fish, a new species of organisms you can't see, and so on.
Dialogue: 0,1:08:31.73,1:08:38.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I mean, this would be enormous news. The last 4,000 years people would have seen these changes among us.
Dialogue: 0,1:08:38.63,1:08:43.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So the Cincinnati Enquirer, I imagine, would carry a column right next to the weather report:
Dialogue: 0,1:08:43.51,1:08:50.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Today's New Species, and it would list these 11 every day, but we see no evidence of that.
Dialogue: 0,1:08:50.25,1:08:54.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There's no evidence of these species. There simply isn't enough time.
Dialogue: 0,1:08:54.33,1:08:58.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Now as you may know, I was graduated from engineering school and I was,
Dialogue: 0,1:08:58.73,1:09:07.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I got a job at Boeing. I worked on 747s. I, okay everybody relax, I was very well supervised.
Dialogue: 0,1:09:08.00,1:09:12.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Everything's fine. There's a tube in the 747 I kind of think of that's my tube.
Dialogue: 0,1:09:12.92,1:09:17.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But that aside, I travelled the highways of Washington state quite a bit.
Dialogue: 0,1:09:17.93,1:09:23.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I was a young guy. I had a motorcycle. I used to go mountain climbing in Washington state... Oregon.
Dialogue: 0,1:09:24.07,1:09:32.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And you can drive along and find these enormous boulders on top of the ground, enormous rocks,
Dialogue: 0,1:09:32.32,1:09:40.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,huge, sitting on top of the ground. Now, out there, in regular academic pursuits, regular geology,
Dialogue: 0,1:09:41.57,1:09:46.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,people have discovered that there was, used to be a lake in what is now Montana
Dialogue: 0,1:09:46.89,1:09:50.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which we charmingly refer to as Lake Missoula.
Dialogue: 0,1:09:50.48,1:09:54.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's not there now but the evidence for it, of course, if I may, overwhelming.
Dialogue: 0,1:09:54.99,1:10:01.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so, an ice dam would form at Lake Missoula and once in a while it would break.
Dialogue: 0,1:10:01.31,1:10:06.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It would build up and break. And there were multiple floods in my old state of Washington state.
Dialogue: 0,1:10:06.51,1:10:12.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And, just, before we go on, let me just say, go Seahawks! That was very gratifying, very gratifying for me.
Dialogue: 0,1:10:13.37,1:10:20.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Anyway you drive along the road and there are these rocks. So, if as is asserted here at this facility,
Dialogue: 0,1:10:20.73,1:10:25.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that the heavier rocks would sink to the bottom during a flood event,
Dialogue: 0,1:10:25.25,1:10:29.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the big rocks, and especially their shape, instead of aerodynamic,
Dialogue: 0,1:10:29.25,1:10:34.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the hydrodynamic, the water changing shape, as water flows past,
Dialogue: 0,1:10:34.24,1:10:38.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you'd expect them to sink to the bottom. But here are these enormous rocks right on the surface.
Dialogue: 0,1:10:38.92,1:10:42.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And there's no shortage of them. If you go driving in Washington state or Oregon
Dialogue: 0,1:10:42.86,1:10:49.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they're readily available. So how could those be there if the Earth is just 4,000 years old.
Dialogue: 0,1:10:49.80,1:10:53.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,How could they be there if this one flood caused that?
Dialogue: 0,1:10:53.97,1:11:01.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Another remarkable thing I'd like everybody to consider, alone inherent in this worldview,
Dialogue: 0,1:11:01.62,1:11:11.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is that somehow Noah and his family were able to build a wooden ship that would house
Dialogue: 0,1:11:11.06,1:11:17.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,14,000 individuals. There were 7,000 kinds and then, there's a boy and a girl for each one of those,
Dialogue: 0,1:11:17.97,1:11:22.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so there's about 14,000... 8 people. And these people were unskilled.
Dialogue: 0,1:11:23.20,1:11:27.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,As far as anybody knows they had never built a wooden ship before.
Dialogue: 0,1:11:27.25,1:11:31.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Furthermore, they had to get all these animals on there. And they had to feed them.
Dialogue: 0,1:11:31.37,1:11:37.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I understand that Mr. Ham has some explanations for that, which I frankly find extraordinary but
Dialogue: 0,1:11:38.87,1:11:45.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,this is the premise of the bit. And we can then run a test, a scientific test.
Dialogue: 0,1:11:46.08,1:11:52.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,People in the early 1900s built an extraordinary, large wooden ship, the Wyoming.
Dialogue: 0,1:11:52.42,1:12:00.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It was a six-masted schooner, the largest one ever built. It had a motor on it for winching cables and stuff.
Dialogue: 0,1:12:00.06,1:12:07.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But this boat had a great difficulty. It was not as big as the Titanic, but it was a very long ship.
Dialogue: 0,1:12:07.78,1:12:16.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It would twist in the sea. It would twist this way, this way, and this way.
Dialogue: 0,1:12:16.19,1:12:22.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And in all that twisting, it leaked. It leaked like crazy. The crew could not keep the ship dry.
Dialogue: 0,1:12:22.78,1:12:30.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And indeed, it eventually foundered and sank, a loss of all 14 hands. So there were 14 crewmen
Dialogue: 0,1:12:31.37,1:12:35.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,aboard a ship built by very, very skilled shipwrights in New England.
Dialogue: 0,1:12:35.50,1:12:39.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,These guys were the best in the world at wooden shipbuilding. And they couldn't build
Dialogue: 0,1:12:39.90,1:12:45.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a boat as big as the Ark is claimed to have been.
Dialogue: 0,1:12:45.08,1:12:51.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Is that reasonable? Is that possible that the best shipbuilders in the world couldn't do
Dialogue: 0,1:12:51.19,1:12:57.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,what eight unskilled people, men and their wives, were able to do?
Dialogue: 0,1:12:57.86,1:13:06.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If you visit the National Zoo, in Washington D.C., it's 163 acres. And they have 400 species.
Dialogue: 0,1:13:06.38,1:13:12.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,By the way, this picture that you're seeing was taken by spacecraft in space, orbiting the Earth.
Dialogue: 0,1:13:12.34,1:13:17.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If you told my grandfather, let alone my father, that we had that capability,
Dialogue: 0,1:13:17.34,1:13:21.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they would have been amazed. That capability comes from our fundamental understanding
Dialogue: 0,1:13:21.94,1:13:29.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of gravity, of material science, of physics, and life science, where you go looking.
Dialogue: 0,1:13:29.38,1:13:35.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This place is often, as any zoo, is often deeply concerned and criticized for how it treats its animals.
Dialogue: 0,1:13:36.33,1:13:44.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They have 400 species on 163 acres, 66 hectares. Is it reasonable that Noah and his colleagues,
Dialogue: 0,1:13:44.79,1:13:51.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,his family, were able to maintain 14,000 animals and themselves, and feed them, aboard a ship
Dialogue: 0,1:13:51.24,1:13:54.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that was bigger than anyone's ever been able to build?
Dialogue: 0,1:13:54.80,1:14:02.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Now, here's the thing, what we want in science, science as practiced on the outside,
Dialogue: 0,1:14:03.26,1:14:11.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is an ability to predict. We want to have a natural law that is so obvious and clear,
Dialogue: 0,1:14:11.01,1:14:15.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so well understood that we can make predictions about what will happen.
Dialogue: 0,1:14:15.07,1:14:20.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We can predict that we can put a spacecraft in orbit and take a picture of Washington D.C.
Dialogue: 0,1:14:20.73,1:14:25.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We can predict that if we provide this much room for an elephant, it will live healthily
Dialogue: 0,1:14:25.31,1:14:30.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for a certain amount of time. I'll give you an example.
Dialogue: 0,1:14:32.81,1:14:38.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In the explanation provided by traditional science, of how we came to be,
Dialogue: 0,1:14:38.88,1:14:44.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we find as Mr. Ham alluded to many times in his recent remarks,
Dialogue: 0,1:14:44.28,1:14:49.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we find a sequence of animals in what, generally, is called "the fossil record."
Dialogue: 0,1:14:49.37,1:14:53.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This would be to say when we look at the layers, that you would find in Kentucky,
Dialogue: 0,1:14:53.27,1:14:58.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you look at them carefully, you find a sequence of animals, a succession.
Dialogue: 0,1:14:58.57,1:15:01.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And as one might expect, when you are looking at old records
Dialogue: 0,1:15:01.71,1:15:05.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,there's some pieces seem to be missing, a gap.
Dialogue: 0,1:15:05.78,1:15:09.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So scientists got to thinking about this.
Dialogue: 0,1:15:09.15,1:15:13.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There are lungfish that jump from pond to pond in Florida
Dialogue: 0,1:15:13.98,1:15:15.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and end up in people's swimming pools.
Dialogue: 0,1:15:15.96,1:15:19.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And there are amphibians, frogs and toads, croaking and carrying on.
Dialogue: 0,1:15:19.96,1:15:25.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so people wondered if there wasn't a fossil or an organism,
Dialogue: 0,1:15:25.67,1:15:29.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,an animal, that had lived, that had characteristics of both.
Dialogue: 0,1:15:29.72,1:15:33.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,People over the years had found that in Canada,
Dialogue: 0,1:15:33.69,1:15:36.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,there was clearly a fossil marsh--
Dialogue: 0,1:15:36.72,1:15:39.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a place that used to be a swamp that had dried out.
Dialogue: 0,1:15:40.12,1:15:44.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And they found all kinds of happy swamp fossils there:
Dialogue: 0,1:15:44.21,1:15:49.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,ferns, organisms, animals, fish that were recognized.
Dialogue: 0,1:15:49.32,1:15:52.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And people realized that if this, with the age of the rocks there,
Dialogue: 0,1:15:52.89,1:15:58.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as computed by traditional scientists, with the age of the rocks there,
Dialogue: 0,1:15:58.26,1:16:01.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,this would be a reasonable place to look for an animal,
Dialogue: 0,1:16:01.86,1:16:07.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a fossil of an animal that lived there. And, indeed, scientists found it.
Dialogue: 0,1:16:07.67,1:16:10.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Tiktaalik, this fish-lizard guy.
Dialogue: 0,1:16:11.48,1:16:16.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And they found several specimens, it wasn't one individual.
Dialogue: 0,1:16:16.62,1:16:19.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In other words, they made a prediction, that this animal
Dialogue: 0,1:16:19.25,1:16:26.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,would be found and it was found. So far, Mr. Ham and his worldview,
Dialogue: 0,1:16:26.04,1:16:30.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the Ken Ham creation model, does not have this capability.
Dialogue: 0,1:16:30.01,1:16:34.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It cannot make predictions and show results.
Dialogue: 0,1:16:34.09,1:16:38.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Here's an extraordinary one that I find remarkable.
Dialogue: 0,1:16:39.70,1:16:45.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There are certain fish, the Topminnows, that have
Dialogue: 0,1:16:45.68,1:16:51.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the remarkable ability to have sex with other fish,
Dialogue: 0,1:16:51.68,1:16:55.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,traditional fish sex, and they can have sex with themselves.
Dialogue: 0,1:16:55.87,1:16:59.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Now, one of the old questions in life science, everybody,
Dialogue: 0,1:16:59.91,1:17:04.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,one of the old chin strokers is why does any organism,
Dialogue: 0,1:17:04.80,1:17:12.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,whether you're an ash tree, a sea jelly, a squid, a marmot,
Dialogue: 0,1:17:12.69,1:17:17.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,why does anybody have sex? I mean, there are more bacteria
Dialogue: 0,1:17:17.91,1:17:21.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in your tummy right now then there are humans on Earth.
Dialogue: 0,1:17:21.74,1:17:23.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And bacteria, they don't bother with that, man.
Dialogue: 0,1:17:23.44,1:17:26.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They split themselves in half, they get new bacteria!
Dialogue: 0,1:17:26.14,1:17:29.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Like, let's get her done! Let's go. But why does any--
Dialogue: 0,1:17:29.82,1:17:34.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,think of all the trouble a rose bush goes to make a flower and the thorns
Dialogue: 0,1:17:34.53,1:17:41.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the bees flying around, interacting--why does anybody bother with all that?
Dialogue: 0,1:17:41.52,1:17:45.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And the answer seems to be...your enemies.
Dialogue: 0,1:17:45.71,1:17:51.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And your enemies are not lions and tigers and bears...oh my!
Dialogue: 0,1:17:51.76,1:17:55.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,No, your enemies are germs and parasites.
Dialogue: 0,1:17:55.91,1:17:59.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That's what's gonna get you. Germs and parasites.
Dialogue: 0,1:17:59.63,1:18:05.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,My first cousin's son died tragically from essentially the flu.
Dialogue: 0,1:18:05.72,1:18:09.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This is not some story I heard about. This is my first cousin, once removed.
Dialogue: 0,1:18:09.04,1:18:13.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Because, apparently, the virus had the right genes to attack his genes.
Dialogue: 0,1:18:13.22,1:18:16.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So when you have sex you have a new set of genes.
Dialogue: 0,1:18:16.48,1:18:20.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You have a new mixture. So people studied these Topminnows.
Dialogue: 0,1:18:20.90,1:18:24.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And they found that the ones who reproduced sexually
Dialogue: 0,1:18:25.10,1:18:29.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,had fewer parasites that the ones who reproduced on their own.
Dialogue: 0,1:18:29.98,1:18:33.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This Black Spot disease--wait, wait, there's more.
Dialogue: 0,1:18:33.58,1:18:37.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In these populations, with flooding and so on, when river ponds get isolated,
Dialogue: 0,1:18:37.92,1:18:40.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,then they dry up, then the river flows again.
Dialogue: 0,1:18:41.14,1:18:44.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In between, some of the fish will have sex with other fish,
Dialogue: 0,1:18:44.100,1:18:49.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,sometimes, and they'll have sex on their own, what's called asexually.
Dialogue: 0,1:18:50.07,1:18:52.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And those fish, the ones that are in between, sometimes this,
Dialogue: 0,1:18:52.82,1:18:57.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,sometimes that, they have an intermediate number of infections.
Dialogue: 0,1:18:57.68,1:19:02.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In other words, the explanation provided by evolution made a prediction.
Dialogue: 0,1:19:03.42,1:19:06.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And the prediction's extraordinary and subtle, but there it is.
Dialogue: 0,1:19:07.02,1:19:09.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,How else would you explain it?
Dialogue: 0,1:19:09.26,1:19:14.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And to Mr. Ham and his followers I say this is something we in science want.
Dialogue: 0,1:19:14.41,1:19:18.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We want the ability to predict. And your assertion
Dialogue: 0,1:19:18.19,1:19:21.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that there's some difference between the natural laws
Dialogue: 0,1:19:21.49,1:19:24.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that I use to observe the world today and the natural laws
Dialogue: 0,1:19:24.75,1:19:30.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that existed 4,000 years ago is extraordinary and unsettling.
Dialogue: 0,1:19:31.43,1:19:35.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I travel around. I have a great many family members
Dialogue: 0,1:19:35.06,1:19:39.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in Danville, Virginia, one of the U.S's most livable cities.
Dialogue: 0,1:19:39.52,1:19:46.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's lovely. And I was driving along and there was a sign in front of a church:
Dialogue: 0,1:19:46.77,1:19:50.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"Big Bang theory? You got to be kidding me. God."
Dialogue: 0,1:19:51.04,1:19:56.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Now, everybody, why would someone at the church, a pastor for example,
Dialogue: 0,1:19:56.35,1:20:03.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,put that sign up unless he or she didn't believe
Dialogue: 0,1:20:03.18,1:20:06.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that the big bang was a real thing? I just want to review,
Dialogue: 0,1:20:06.96,1:20:09.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,briefly, with everybody why we accept,
Dialogue: 0,1:20:10.29,1:20:13.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in the outside world, why we accept the Big Bang.
Dialogue: 0,1:20:16.13,1:20:23.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Edwin Hubble, sorry, there you go, you gotta be kidding me God.
Dialogue: 0,1:20:23.25,1:20:28.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Edwin Hubble was sitting at Mount Wilson, which is up from Pasadena, California.
Dialogue: 0,1:20:28.85,1:20:32.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,On a clear day you can look down and see where the Rose Parade goes.
Dialogue: 0,1:20:32.86,1:20:35.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's that close to civilization.
Dialogue: 0,1:20:35.02,1:20:40.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But even in the early 1900's, the people who selected this site for astronomy
Dialogue: 0,1:20:40.33,1:20:45.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,picked an excellent site. The clouds and smog are below you.
Dialogue: 0,1:20:45.49,1:20:51.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And Edwin Hubble sat there at this very big telescope night after night studying the heavens.
Dialogue: 0,1:20:51.82,1:20:58.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And he found that the stars are moving apart. The stars are moving apart.
Dialogue: 0,1:20:58.79,1:21:07.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And he wasn't sure why. But it was clear that the stars are moving farther and farther apart all the time.
Dialogue: 0,1:21:07.66,1:21:11.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So people talked about it for a couple decades.
Dialogue: 0,1:21:11.17,1:21:15.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And then eventually another astronomer, almost a couple decades, another astronomer
Dialogue: 0,1:21:15.56,1:21:20.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Fred Hoyle just remarked, "Well, it was like there was a big bang.
Dialogue: 0,1:21:20.60,1:21:24.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There was an explosion. This is to say; since everything's moving apart,
Dialogue: 0,1:21:24.77,1:21:28.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it's very reasonable that at one time they were all together.
Dialogue: 0,1:21:28.36,1:21:32.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And there's a place from whence, or rather whence, these things expanded."
Dialogue: 0,1:21:32.69,1:21:35.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And it was a remarkable insight.
Dialogue: 0,1:21:35.06,1:21:38.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But people went still questioning it for decades.
Dialogue: 0,1:21:38.43,1:21:43.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Scientists, conventional scientists, questioning it for decades.
Dialogue: 0,1:21:44.74,1:21:51.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,These two researchers wanted to listen for radio signals from space--radio astronomy.
Dialogue: 0,1:21:51.29,1:21:57.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And this is while we have visible light for our eyes, there is a whole other bunch of waves of light
Dialogue: 0,1:21:57.60,1:22:01.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that are much longer. The microwaves in your oven are about that long.
Dialogue: 0,1:22:01.61,1:22:07.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The radar at the airport is about that long. Your FM radio signals about like this.
Dialogue: 0,1:22:08.41,1:22:13.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AM radio signals are a kilometer--they're a couple, several soccer fields.
Dialogue: 0,1:22:14.14,1:22:21.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They went out listening. And there was this hiss, this hisssssss, all the time
Dialogue: 0,1:22:21.20,1:22:24.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that wouldn't go away. And they thought "Oh! Doggone it. There's some loose
Dialogue: 0,1:22:24.99,1:22:29.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,connector." They plugged in the connector. They rescrewed it. They made it tight.
Dialogue: 0,1:22:29.78,1:22:31.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They turned it this way. The hiss was still there.
Dialogue: 0,1:22:31.96,1:22:33.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They turned it that way. It was still there.
Dialogue: 0,1:22:33.54,1:22:38.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They thought it was pigeon droppings that had affected the reception of this "horn" it's called.
Dialogue: 0,1:22:38.66,1:22:42.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This thing is still there. It's in Basking Ridge, New Jersey.
Dialogue: 0,1:22:42.43,1:22:49.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's a national historic site. And Arno Pinzius and Robert Wilson had found
Dialogue: 0,1:22:49.42,1:22:55.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,this cosmic background sound that was predicted by astronomers.
Dialogue: 0,1:22:55.28,1:22:58.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Astronomers running the numbers, doing math, predicted
Dialogue: 0,1:22:58.87,1:23:02.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that in the cosmos would be left over this echo,
Dialogue: 0,1:23:02.32,1:23:06.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,this energy, from the Big Bang that would be detectable.
Dialogue: 0,1:23:06.54,1:23:13.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And they detected it. We built the Cosmic Observatory for Background Emissions, the COBE spacecraft,
Dialogue: 0,1:23:13.63,1:23:17.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and it matched exactly, exactly the astronomers predictions.
Dialogue: 0,1:23:18.57,1:23:22.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You gotta respect that. It's a wonderful thing.
Dialogue: 0,1:23:22.43,1:23:29.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Now, along that line is some interest in the age of the earth.
Dialogue: 0,1:23:29.38,1:23:34.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Right now, it's generally agreed that the Big Bang happened 13.7 billion years ago.
Dialogue: 0,1:23:35.54,1:23:41.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What we can do on earth. These elements that we all know on the Periodic Table of Chemicals,
Dialogue: 0,1:23:41.03,1:23:46.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,even ones we don't know, were created when stars explode.
Dialogue: 0,1:23:46.27,1:23:51.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I look like nobody. But I attended a lecture by Hans Betta who won a Nobel
Dialogue: 0,1:23:51.20,1:23:55.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Prize for discovering the process by which stars create all these elements.
Dialogue: 0,1:23:56.07,1:24:02.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The one that interests me especially is our good friends Rubidium and Strontium.
Dialogue: 0,1:24:02.33,1:24:06.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Rubidium becomes Strontium spontaneously. It's an interesting thing to me.
Dialogue: 0,1:24:06.38,1:24:11.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,A neutron becomes a proton. And it goes up the Periodic Table.
Dialogue: 0,1:24:11.76,1:24:14.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,When lava comes out of the ground, molten lava,
Dialogue: 0,1:24:14.85,1:24:18.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and it freezes, turns to rock, when the melt solidifies,
Dialogue: 0,1:24:18.52,1:24:23.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or crystalizes, it locks the Rubidium and Strontium in place.
Dialogue: 0,1:24:23.56,1:24:30.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so by careful assay, by careful, by being diligent, you can tell when the rock froze.
Dialogue: 0,1:24:30.53,1:24:36.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You can tell how old the Rubidium and Strontium are. And you can get an age for the earth.
Dialogue: 0,1:24:36.04,1:24:41.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,When that stuff falls on fossils, you can get a very good idea of how old the fossils are.
Dialogue: 0,1:24:41.99,1:24:46.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I encourage you all to go to Nebraska, go to Ashfall State Park
Dialogue: 0,1:24:46.66,1:24:51.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and see the astonishing fossils. It looks like a Hollywood movie.
Dialogue: 0,1:24:51.33,1:24:56.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There are rhinoceroses. There are three-toed horses in Nebraska.
Dialogue: 0,1:24:56.59,1:25:01.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,None of those animals are extant today. And they are buried, catastrophically, by a
Dialogue: 0,1:25:01.86,1:25:05.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,volcano in what is now Idaho. Is now Yellowstone National Park.
Dialogue: 0,1:25:05.31,1:25:08.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What is called the hot spot. People call it the super-volcano.
Dialogue: 0,1:25:08.49,1:25:12.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And it's the remarkable thing. Apparently, as I can tell you, as a Northwesterner around
Dialogue: 0,1:25:12.50,1:25:16.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for Mount St. Helen's. For full disclosure I'm on the Mount St. Helen's Board.
Dialogue: 0,1:25:16.98,1:25:20.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,When it (explosive sound), when it goes off it gives out a great deal of gas
Dialogue: 0,1:25:20.30,1:25:24.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that's toxic and knock these animals out. Looking for relief, they go to a watering
Dialogue: 0,1:25:24.69,1:25:29.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,hole. And then when the ash comes they were all buried. It's an extraordinary place.
Dialogue: 0,1:25:29.59,1:25:36.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Now if in the bad old days, you had heart problems, they would right away cut you open.
Dialogue: 0,1:25:36.78,1:25:43.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Now, we use a drug based on Rubidium to look at the inside of your heart without cutting you open.
Dialogue: 0,1:25:43.98,1:25:51.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Now, my Kentucky friends, I want you to consider this. Right now, there is no place
Dialogue: 0,1:25:51.96,1:25:57.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in the Commonwealth of Kentucky to get a degree in this kind of nuclear medicine--
Dialogue: 0,1:25:57.09,1:25:59.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,this kind of drugs associated with that.
Dialogue: 0,1:25:59.80,1:26:04.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I hope you find that troubling. I hope you're concerned about that.
Dialogue: 0,1:26:04.33,1:26:11.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You want scientifically literate students in your commonwealth for a better tomorrow for everybody.
Dialogue: 0,1:26:11.19,1:26:15.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You can, you can't get this here. You have to go out of state.
Dialogue: 0,1:26:16.12,1:26:22.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Now as far as the distance to stars. Understand this is very well understood.
Dialogue: 0,1:26:22.06,1:26:26.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We, it's February. We look at a star in February. We measure an angle to it.
Dialogue: 0,1:26:26.81,1:26:31.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We wait six months. We look at that same star again and we measure that angle.
Dialogue: 0,1:26:31.30,1:26:37.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's the same way carpenters built this building. It's the same way surveyors surveyed the land that we're standing on.
Dialogue: 0,1:26:37.12,1:26:42.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so by measuring the distance to a star, you can figure out how far away it is, that star,
Dialogue: 0,1:26:42.04,1:26:46.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the stars beyond it, and the stars beyond that. There are billions of stars.
Dialogue: 0,1:26:46.29,1:26:50.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Billions of stars more than six thousand light years from here.
Dialogue: 0,1:26:50.40,1:26:54.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,A light year is a unit of distance, not a unit of time.
Dialogue: 0,1:26:54.71,1:27:00.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There are billions of stars. Mr. Ham, how could there be billions of stars more distant
Dialogue: 0,1:27:00.80,1:27:05.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,than six thousand years, if the world's only six thousand years old?
Dialogue: 0,1:27:05.03,1:27:12.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's an extraordinary claim. There's another astronomer, Adolphe Quetele, who remarked first
Dialogue: 0,1:27:13.71,1:27:23.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about the reasonable man. Is it reasonable that we have ice older by a factor of a hundred than you claim the earth is?
Dialogue: 0,1:27:23.72,1:27:26.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We have trees that have more tree rings than the earth is old.
Dialogue: 0,1:27:26.99,1:27:32.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We have rocks with Rubidium and Strontium, and Uranium-Uranium, and Potassium-Argon dating
Dialogue: 0,1:27:32.91,1:27:36.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that are far, far, far older than you claim the earth is.
Dialogue: 0,1:27:36.71,1:27:44.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Could anybody have built an ark that would sustain the better than any ark anybody was able to build on the earth?
Dialogue: 0,1:27:44.08,1:27:48.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, if you're asking me, and I got the impression you were,
Dialogue: 0,1:27:48.96,1:27:55.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is Ken Ham's creation model viable? I say "No! Absolutely not!"
Dialogue: 0,1:27:55.62,1:28:01.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Now, one last thing. You may not know that in the US Constitution, from the founding fathers,
Dialogue: 0,1:28:02.31,1:28:06.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is the sentence "to promote the progress of science and useful arts..."
Dialogue: 0,1:28:08.16,1:28:11.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Kentucky voters, voters who might be watching online,
Dialogue: 0,1:28:11.94,1:28:16.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in places like Texas, Tennessee, Oklahoma, Kansas, please
Dialogue: 0,1:28:16.73,1:28:19.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you don't want to raise a generation of science students
Dialogue: 0,1:28:19.91,1:28:23.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who don't understand how we know our place in the cosmos,
Dialogue: 0,1:28:23.49,1:28:26.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,our place in space, who don't understand natural law.
Dialogue: 0,1:28:26.49,1:28:30.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We need to innovate to keep the United States where it is in the world.
Dialogue: 0,1:28:30.56,1:28:32.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Thank you very much.
Dialogue: 0,1:28:32.01,1:28:47.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(applause)
Dialogue: 0,1:28:48.30,1:28:51.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Moderator: That's a lot to take in. I hope everybody's holding up well.
Dialogue: 0,1:28:51.47,1:28:55.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That's a lot of information. What we're going to have now is a five minute
Dialogue: 0,1:28:55.24,1:28:58.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,rebuttal time for each gentleman to address the other one's comments.
Dialogue: 0,1:28:58.96,1:29:03.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And then there will be a five minute counter rebuttal after that.
Dialogue: 0,1:29:03.93,1:29:06.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Things are going to start moving a little more quickly now.
Dialogue: 0,1:29:06.19,1:29:10.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So at this point in particular, I want to make sure we don't have applauding or anything else going on that slows it down.
Dialogue: 0,1:29:10.97,1:29:15.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, Mr. Hamm, if you'd like to begin with your five minute rebuttal first.
Dialogue: 0,1:29:24.86,1:29:30.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Mr. Hamm: First of all, Bill, if I was to answer all the points that you brought up,
Dialogue: 0,1:29:30.09,1:29:33.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the moderator would think that I was going on for millions of years. (laughter)
Dialogue: 0,1:29:33.90,1:29:35.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So I can only deal with some of them.
Dialogue: 0,1:29:35.74,1:29:39.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And you mentioned the age of the earth a couple of times, so let me deal with that.
Dialogue: 0,1:29:39.70,1:29:44.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,As I said in my presentation, you can't observe the age of the earth.
Dialogue: 0,1:29:44.70,1:29:48.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I would say that comes under what we call historical origin science.
Dialogue: 0,1:29:48.88,1:29:52.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Now, just so you understand where I'm coming from.
Dialogue: 0,1:29:52.23,1:29:57.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Yes, we admit we build our origins from historical science on the Bible.
Dialogue: 0,1:29:57.10,1:30:02.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The Bible says God created in six days. A Hebrew word "yon" as it's used in Genesis 1
Dialogue: 0,1:30:02.14,1:30:06.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with evening/morning number means an ordinary day. Adam was made on day six.
Dialogue: 0,1:30:06.12,1:30:09.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so, when you add up all those geneologies specifically given in the Bible
Dialogue: 0,1:30:09.97,1:30:19.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,from Adam to Abraham you've got 2,000 years; from Abraham to Christ 2,000 years; from Christ to the present 2,000 years.
Dialogue: 0,1:30:19.72,1:30:23.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That's how we get 6,000 years. So that's where it comes from. Just so you know.
Dialogue: 0,1:30:23.95,1:30:29.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Now a lot of people say. Now, by the way, the earth's age is 4.5 billion years old.
Dialogue: 0,1:30:29.100,1:30:35.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And we have radioactive decay dating methods that found that.
Dialogue: 0,1:30:35.23,1:30:38.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But you see, we certainly observe radioactive decay
Dialogue: 0,1:30:38.39,1:30:42.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,whether it's rubidium-strontium, whether it's uranium-lead, potassium-argon
Dialogue: 0,1:30:42.55,1:30:46.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But when you're talking about the past, we have a problem.
Dialogue: 0,1:30:46.20,1:30:49.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'll give you a practical example. In Australia, there were engineers
Dialogue: 0,1:30:49.58,1:30:53.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that were trying to search out about a coal mine.
Dialogue: 0,1:30:53.16,1:30:57.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so they drilled down and they found a basalt layer, a lava flow that had woody material in it--
Dialogue: 0,1:30:57.76,1:31:04.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,branches and twigs and so on. And when Dr. Andrew Snelling, our PhD geologist,
Dialogue: 0,1:31:04.27,1:31:08.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,sent that to a lab in Massachusetts in 1994, they used potassium-argon
Dialogue: 0,1:31:08.35,1:31:10.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,dating and dated it at 45 million years old.
Dialogue: 0,1:31:10.99,1:31:15.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Well, he also sent the wood to the radio-carbon section of the same lab
Dialogue: 0,1:31:15.54,1:31:20.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and that dated at 45,000 years old. 45,000 year old wood in 45 million year old rock.
Dialogue: 0,1:31:20.17,1:31:22.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The point is there's a problem.
Dialogue: 0,1:31:22.30,1:31:25.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Let me give you another example of a problem.
Dialogue: 0,1:31:25.19,1:31:30.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There was a lava dome that started to form in the 80's after Mt. St. Helen's erupted.
Dialogue: 0,1:31:30.30,1:31:36.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And in 1994 Dr. Steve Austin, another PhD geologist, actually sampled the rock there.
Dialogue: 0,1:31:36.88,1:31:45.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,He took whole rock, crushed it, sent it to the same lab actually, I believe, and got a date of .35 million years.
Dialogue: 0,1:31:45.08,1:31:50.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,When he separated out the minerals amphibole and pyroxene and used potassium-argon dating,
Dialogue: 0,1:31:50.26,1:31:56.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,he got .9 million and 2.8 million. My point is all these dating methods actually give all sorts of different dates.
Dialogue: 0,1:31:56.59,1:32:01.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In fact, different dating methods on the same rock, we can show, give all sorts of different dates.
Dialogue: 0,1:32:01.96,1:32:04.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,See there's lots of assumptions in regard to radioactive dating.
Dialogue: 0,1:32:04.77,1:32:09.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Number one, for instance, the amounts of the parent and daughter isotopes at the beginning when the rock formed.
Dialogue: 0,1:32:09.43,1:32:12.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You have to know them. But you weren't there. See that's historical science.
Dialogue: 0,1:32:12.70,1:32:15.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Assumption 2: that all daughter atoms measured today
Dialogue: 0,1:32:15.72,1:32:20.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,must have only been derived in situ radioactive decay of parent atoms.
Dialogue: 0,1:32:20.38,1:32:21.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In other words it's a closed system.
Dialogue: 0,1:32:21.64,1:32:25.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But you don't know that. And there's a lot of evidence that that's not so.
Dialogue: 0,1:32:25.53,1:32:28.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Assumption Number 3: that the decay rates have remained a constant.
Dialogue: 0,1:32:28.81,1:32:30.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Now they're just some of them. There's others as well.
Dialogue: 0,1:32:30.71,1:32:33.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The point is there's lots of assumptions in regard to the dating methods.
Dialogue: 0,1:32:33.62,1:32:38.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So there's no dating method you can use that you can absolutely age date a rock.
Dialogue: 0,1:32:38.99,1:32:42.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There's all sorts of differences out there.
Dialogue: 0,1:32:42.14,1:32:45.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I do want to address the bit you brought up about Christians believing in millions of years.
Dialogue: 0,1:32:45.90,1:32:48.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Yeah, there's a lot of Christians out there that believe in millions of years,
Dialogue: 0,1:32:48.34,1:32:52.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but I'd say they have a problem. I'm not saying they're not Christians, but
Dialogue: 0,1:32:52.10,1:32:55.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because salvation is conditioned upon faith in Christ, not the age of the earth.
Dialogue: 0,1:32:55.77,1:32:58.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But there's an inconsistency with what the Bible teaches.
Dialogue: 0,1:32:58.64,1:33:04.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If you believe in millions of years, you've got death and bloodshed, suffering, and disease
Dialogue: 0,1:33:04.04,1:33:07.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,over millions of years leading to man, because that's what you see in the fossil record.
Dialogue: 0,1:33:07.93,1:33:11.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The Bible makes it very clear death is a result of man's sin.
Dialogue: 0,1:33:11.26,1:33:15.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In fact, the first death was in the garden when God killed an animal, clothed Adam and Eve,
Dialogue: 0,1:33:15.100,1:33:20.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,first blood sacrifice pointing towards what would happen with Jesus Christ.
Dialogue: 0,1:33:20.37,1:33:23.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,He would be the one who would die once and for all.
Dialogue: 0,1:33:23.77,1:33:27.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Now if you believe in millions of years as a Christian, in the fossil record
Dialogue: 0,1:33:27.25,1:33:30.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,there's evidence of animals eating each other, Bible says originally all the animals
Dialogue: 0,1:33:30.86,1:33:35.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and man were vegetarian. We weren't told we could eat meat until after the flood.
Dialogue: 0,1:33:35.37,1:33:40.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There's diseases represented in the fossil record like brain tumors, but the Bible
Dialogue: 0,1:33:40.07,1:33:42.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,says when God made everything it was very good.
Dialogue: 0,1:33:42.30,1:33:44.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,God doesn't call brain tumors very good.
Dialogue: 0,1:33:44.23,1:33:48.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There's fossilized thorns in the fossil record said to be hundreds of millions of years old,
Dialogue: 0,1:33:48.14,1:33:50.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the Bible says thorns came after the curse.
Dialogue: 0,1:33:50.97,1:33:53.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So these two things can't be true at the same time.
Dialogue: 0,1:33:53.76,1:33:57.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You know what? There's hundreds of dating methods out there, hundreds of them.
Dialogue: 0,1:33:57.23,1:34:03.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Actually, 90% of them contradict billions of years. And the point is, all such dating methods are fallible.
Dialogue: 0,1:34:03.96,1:34:08.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I claim, there's only one infallible dating method, it's a witness who was there,
Dialogue: 0,1:34:08.27,1:34:11.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who knows everything, who told us. And that's from the word of God.
Dialogue: 0,1:34:11.53,1:34:16.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And that's why I would say that the earth is only 6,000 years. And, as Dr. Faulkner said,
Dialogue: 0,1:34:16.50,1:34:20.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,there's nothing in astronomy, and certainly Dr. Snelling would say, there's nothing in geology
Dialogue: 0,1:34:20.43,1:34:25.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to contradict a belief in a young age for the earth and the universe.
Dialogue: 0,1:34:26.43,1:34:29.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Moderator: Thank you Mr. Ham. Mr. Nye, your five-minute rebuttal please.
Dialogue: 0,1:34:29.37,1:34:32.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Mr. Nye: Thank you very much. Let me start with the beginning.
Dialogue: 0,1:34:32.66,1:34:37.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If you find 45 million year old rock on top of 45 thousand year old trees,
Dialogue: 0,1:34:37.23,1:34:42.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,maybe the rock slid on top. Maybe that's it. That seems much more reasonable explanation
Dialogue: 0,1:34:42.47,1:34:49.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,than, "It's impossible." Then as far as dating goes, actually the methods are
Dialogue: 0,1:34:49.33,1:34:55.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,very reliable. One of the mysteries, or interesting things that people in my business,
Dialogue: 0,1:34:55.03,1:35:00.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,especially at the Planetary Society, are interested in is why all the asteroids seem to be
Dialogue: 0,1:35:00.36,1:35:06.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so close to the same date in age. It's 4.5, 4.6 billion years.
Dialogue: 0,1:35:06.90,1:35:11.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's a remarkable thing. People at first expected a little more of a spread.
Dialogue: 0,1:35:11.37,1:35:20.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, I understand that you take the Bible as written in English, translated countless,
Dialogue: 0,1:35:20.50,1:35:26.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,not countless, but many, many times over the last three millenia as to be a more accurate,
Dialogue: 0,1:35:26.10,1:35:29.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,more reasonable assessment of the natural laws we see around us
Dialogue: 0,1:35:29.03,1:35:37.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,than what I and everybody in here can observe. That to me is unsettling, troubling.
Dialogue: 0,1:35:37.73,1:35:47.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And then about the disease thing, are the fish sinners? Have they done something wrong to get diseases?
Dialogue: 0,1:35:47.54,1:35:55.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That's sort of an extraordinary claim that takes me just a little past what I'm comfortable with.
Dialogue: 0,1:35:55.13,1:36:00.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And then, as far as you can't observe the past, I have to stop you right there.
Dialogue: 0,1:36:00.86,1:36:02.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That's what we do in astronomy.
Dialogue: 0,1:36:02.70,1:36:06.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,All we can do in astronomy is look at the past.
Dialogue: 0,1:36:06.13,1:36:13.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,By the way, you're looking at the past right now. Because the speed of light bounces off of me
Dialogue: 0,1:36:13.60,1:36:18.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and then gets to your eyes. And I'm delighted to see that the people in the back of the room
Dialogue: 0,1:36:18.76,1:36:23.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,appear just that much younger than the people in the front.
Dialogue: 0,1:36:23.53,1:36:32.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So this idea that you can separate the natural laws of the past from the natural laws that we have now,
Dialogue: 0,1:36:32.10,1:36:37.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think is at the heart of our disagreement. \NI don't see how we're ever going to agree with that
Dialogue: 0,1:36:37.73,1:36:44.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,if you insist that natural laws have changed. It's, for lack of a better word, it's magical.
Dialogue: 0,1:36:45.06,1:36:50.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I have appreciated magic since I was a kid, but it's not really what we want
Dialogue: 0,1:36:50.50,1:37:02.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in conventional, mainstream science. So, your assertion that all the animals were vegetarians
Dialogue: 0,1:37:03.10,1:37:10.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,before they got on the ark. That's really remarkable. I have not spent a lot of time with lions,
Dialogue: 0,1:37:10.57,1:37:14.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but I can tell they've got teeth that really aren't set up for broccoli.
Dialogue: 0,1:37:14.73,1:37:22.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That these animals were vegetarians til this flood is something that I would ask you
Dialogue: 0,1:37:22.19,1:37:28.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to provide a little more proof for. I give you the lion's teeth, you give me verses
Dialogue: 0,1:37:28.96,1:37:34.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as translated into English over, what, 30 centuries?
Dialogue: 0,1:37:34.50,1:37:40.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, that's not enough evidence for me. If you've ever played telephone, I did, I remember very well
Dialogue: 0,1:37:40.13,1:37:43.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in kindergarten where you have a secret and you whisper it to the next person, to the next person,
Dialogue: 0,1:37:43.16,1:37:50.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to the next person. Things often go wrong. So it's very reasonable to me that instead of lions being vegetarians on the ark,
Dialogue: 0,1:37:50.80,1:38:01.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,lions are lions, and the information that you used to create your world view is not consistent with
Dialogue: 0,1:38:01.80,1:38:11.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,what I, as a reasonable man, would expect. So, I want everybody to consider the implications of this.
Dialogue: 0,1:38:12.63,1:38:23.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If we accept Mr. Ham's point of view, that the Bible as translated into American English,
Dialogue: 0,1:38:23.67,1:38:31.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,serves as a science text, and that he and his followers will interpret that for you,
Dialogue: 0,1:38:31.70,1:38:39.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Just, I want you to consider what that means. It means that Mr. Ham's word or his interpretation
Dialogue: 0,1:38:39.96,1:38:48.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of these other words, is somehow to be more respected than what you can observe in nature.
Dialogue: 0,1:38:48.43,1:38:50.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Than what you can find literally in your backyard, in Kentucky.
Dialogue: 0,1:38:51.18,1:38:58.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's a troubling and unsettling point of view, and it's one I very much like you to address when you come back.
Dialogue: 0,1:38:59.33,1:39:04.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,As far as the five races that you mentioned, it's kind of the same thing.
Dialogue: 0,1:39:04.26,1:39:08.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The five races were claimed by people who were of European descent,
Dialogue: 0,1:39:08.37,1:39:12.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and said, "Hey, we're the best! Check us out!" And that turns out to be,
Dialogue: 0,1:39:12.43,1:39:17.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,if you've ever traveled anywhere or done anything, not to be that way.
Dialogue: 0,1:39:17.13,1:39:20.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,People are much more alike than they are different.
Dialogue: 0,1:39:20.30,1:39:26.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, are we supposed to take your word for English words translated over the last 30 centuries,
Dialogue: 0,1:39:26.07,1:39:29.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,instead of what we can observe in the universe around us?
Dialogue: 0,1:39:30.100,1:39:33.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Moderator: Very good. And Mr. Ham, would you like to offer your five minute counter rebuttal?
Dialogue: 0,1:39:37.97,1:39:41.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Ken Ham: Uh, first of all, Bill, just so, I just don't want a misunderstanding here,
Dialogue: 0,1:39:41.53,1:39:47.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and that is, the 45,000-year-old wood, or supposedly 45,000 was inside the basalt.
Dialogue: 0,1:39:47.77,1:39:54.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Um, so, it was encased in the basalt. Uh, and that's why I was making that particular point.
Dialogue: 0,1:39:54.30,1:39:59.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I would also say that natural law hasn't changed. As I talked about, you know,
Dialogue: 0,1:39:59.37,1:40:03.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I said we had the laws of logic, the uniformity of nature. And that only makes sense
Dialogue: 0,1:40:03.73,1:40:07.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,within a biblical worldview anyway, of a creator God, who set up those laws,
Dialogue: 0,1:40:07.67,1:40:11.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and that's why we can do good experimental science, because we assume those laws are true,
Dialogue: 0,1:40:11.20,1:40:20.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and they'll be true tomorrow. I do want to say this. that you said a few times, you know,
Dialogue: 0,1:40:20.76,1:40:26.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Ken Ham's view or model. It's not just Ken Ham's model. We have a number of PhD scientists
Dialogue: 0,1:40:26.03,1:40:31.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on our own staff. I quoted, had video quotes, from some scientists.
Dialogue: 0,1:40:31.43,1:40:40.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's Dr. Damadian's model. It's Dr. Fabich's model. It's Dr. Faulkner's model. It's Dr. Snelling's model.
Dialogue: 0,1:40:40.30,1:40:44.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's Dr. Purdom's model. And so it goes on, in other words. And you go on our website,
Dialogue: 0,1:40:44.66,1:40:50.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and there are lots of creation scientists who agree with exactly what we're saying concerning
Dialogue: 0,1:40:50.86,1:40:57.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the Bible's account of creation. So it's not just "my model" in that sense.
Dialogue: 0,1:40:57.20,1:41:05.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There is so much that I can say, but, as I listen to you, I believe you're confusing terms
Dialogue: 0,1:41:05.17,1:41:11.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in regard to species and kinds. Because we're not saying that God created all those species.
Dialogue: 0,1:41:11.13,1:41:16.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We're saying God created kinds. And we're not saying species got on the ark, we're saying kinds.
Dialogue: 0,1:41:16.10,1:41:19.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In fact, we've had researchers working on what is a kind. For instance, there's a number of papers,
Dialogue: 0,1:41:19.80,1:41:24.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,published on our website, where, for instance, they look at dogs. And they say, well, this one
Dialogue: 0,1:41:24.07,1:41:28.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,breeds with this one, with this one, with this one. And you can look at all the papers around the world
Dialogue: 0,1:41:28.60,1:41:31.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and you can connect them all together and say that obviously represents one kind.
Dialogue: 0,1:41:31.84,1:41:36.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In fact, as they have been doing that research, they have predicted probably less than actually a thousand
Dialogue: 0,1:41:36.43,1:41:41.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,kinds were on Noah's ark, which means just over 2,000 animals. And the average size of a land animal
Dialogue: 0,1:41:41.97,1:41:48.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is not that big so, you know, there was plenty of room on the ark. I also believe that
Dialogue: 0,1:41:48.37,1:41:52.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a lot of what you were saying was really illustrating my point. Uh, you were talking about tree rings
Dialogue: 0,1:41:52.93,1:41:58.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and ice layers and, just talking about kangaroos getting to Australia, and all sorts of things like that.
Dialogue: 0,1:41:58.33,1:42:03.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But see, we're talking about the past, when we weren't there. We didn't see those tree rings actually forming.
Dialogue: 0,1:42:03.50,1:42:10.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We didn't see those layers being laid down. You know, in 1942, for instance, there were some planes
Dialogue: 0,1:42:10.16,1:42:15.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that landed on the ice in Greenland. They found them, what, 46 years later, I think it was,
Dialogue: 0,1:42:15.03,1:42:20.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,three miles away from the original location with 250 feet of ice buried on top of them.
Dialogue: 0,1:42:20.23,1:42:24.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, ice can build up catastrophically. If you assume one layer a year, or something like that,
Dialogue: 0,1:42:24.50,1:42:30.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it's like the dating methods. You are assuming things in regard to the past that aren't necessarily true.
Dialogue: 0,1:42:30.00,1:42:39.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In regard to lions and teeth, bears, most bears have teeth very much like a lion or tiger, and yet, most bears
Dialogue: 0,1:42:39.10,1:42:42.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,are primarily vegetarian. The panda, if you look at its teeth, you'd say, maybe it should be a
Dialogue: 0,1:42:42.97,1:42:48.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,savage carnivore. It eats mainly bamboo. The little fruit bat in Australia has really sharp teeth,
Dialogue: 0,1:42:48.47,1:42:51.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,looks like a savage little creature, and it rips into fruit.
Dialogue: 0,1:42:51.90,1:42:56.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Uh, so, just cause an animal has sharp teeth doesn't mean it's a meat eater. It means it has sharp teeth.
Dialogue: 0,1:42:56.60,1:43:03.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Uh, so again, it really comes down to our interpretation of these things.
Dialogue: 0,1:43:03.33,1:43:07.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think too, in regard to the Missoula, uh, example that you gave, you know,
Dialogue: 0,1:43:07.44,1:43:10.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,creationists do believe there's been post-flood catastrophism.
Dialogue: 0,1:43:10.50,1:43:17.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Noah's flood, certainly, was a catastrophic event. But then there's been post-flood catastrophism since that time as well.
Dialogue: 0,1:43:17.77,1:43:22.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And again, in regard to historical science, why would you say Noah was unskilled?
Dialogue: 0,1:43:22.13,1:43:28.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I mean, I didn't meet Noah, and neither did you. And you know, really, it's an evolutionary view of origins I believe
Dialogue: 0,1:43:28.83,1:43:32.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,cause you're thinking in terms people before us aren't as good as us.
Dialogue: 0,1:43:32.20,1:43:36.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Hey, there are civilizations that existed in the past, and we look at their technology,
Dialogue: 0,1:43:36.87,1:43:41.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and we can't even understand today how they did some of the things that they did.
Dialogue: 0,1:43:41.40,1:43:44.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Who says Noah couldn't build a big boat? By the way, the Chinese and the Egyptians built boats.
Dialogue: 0,1:43:44.94,1:43:49.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In fact, some of our research indicates that some of the wooden boats that were built
Dialogue: 0,1:43:49.13,1:43:52.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,had three layers interlocking so they wouldn't twist like that and leak, which is why,
Dialogue: 0,1:43:52.74,1:43:58.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,here at the Creation Museum, we have an exhibit on the ark, where we've rebuilt 1% of the ark to scale
Dialogue: 0,1:43:58.87,1:44:03.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and shown three interlocking layers like that. And one last thing, concerning the speed of light,
Dialogue: 0,1:44:03.87,1:44:09.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and that is, I'm sure you're aware of the horizon problem. And that is, from a Big Bang perspective,
Dialogue: 0,1:44:09.67,1:44:15.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,even the secularists have a problem of getting light and radiation out to the universe
Dialogue: 0,1:44:15.53,1:44:20.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to be able to exchange with the rest of the universe, to get that even microwave background radiation.
Dialogue: 0,1:44:20.70,1:44:27.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,On their model, 15 billion years or so, they can only get it about halfway.
Dialogue: 0,1:44:27.13,1:44:32.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And that's why they have inflation theories, which means, everyone has a problem concerning the light issue.
Dialogue: 0,1:44:32.13,1:44:36.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There's things people don't understand. And we have some models on our website
Dialogue: 0,1:44:36.00,1:44:40.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,by some of our scientists to help explain those sorts of things.
Dialogue: 0,1:44:40.46,1:44:42.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Moderator: Mr. Nye, your counter rebuttal.
Dialogue: 0,1:44:42.97,1:44:46.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Bill Nye: Thank you Mr. Ham, but I'm completely unsatisfied.
Dialogue: 0,1:44:46.10,1:44:53.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You did not, in my view, address this fundamental question. 680,000 years of snow ice layers
Dialogue: 0,1:44:53.60,1:44:59.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which require winter summer cycle. Let's say you have 2,000 kinds instead of seven.
Dialogue: 0,1:44:59.75,1:45:05.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That makes the problem even more extraordinary, multiplying eleven by what's, three and a half?
Dialogue: 0,1:45:05.73,1:45:14.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We get to 35... 40 species every day that we don't see, they're not extant.
Dialogue: 0,1:45:14.26,1:45:20.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In fact, you probably know we're losing species due to mostly human activity and the loss of habitat.
Dialogue: 0,1:45:20.37,1:45:25.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Then, as far as Noah being an extraordinary shipwright, I'm very skeptical.
Dialogue: 0,1:45:25.70,1:45:33.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The shipwrights, my ancestors, the Nye family in New England, took, spent their whole life learning to make ships.
Dialogue: 0,1:45:33.63,1:45:38.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I mean, it's very reasonable, perhaps, to you that Noah had superpowers
Dialogue: 0,1:45:38.60,1:45:45.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and was able to build this extraordinary craft with seven family members, but to me, it's just not reasonable.
Dialogue: 0,1:45:45.87,1:45:53.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Then, uh, by the way, the fundamental thing we disagree on, Mr. Ham,
Dialogue: 0,1:45:53.30,1:46:00.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is this nature of what you can prove to yourself. This is to say, when people make assumptions
Dialogue: 0,1:46:01.63,1:46:06.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,based on radiometric data, when they make assumptions about the expanding universe,
Dialogue: 0,1:46:06.76,1:46:12.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,when they make assumptions about the rate at which genes change in populations of bacteria
Dialogue: 0,1:46:12.96,1:46:20.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in laboratory growth media, they are making assumptions based on previous experience.
Dialogue: 0,1:46:20.29,1:46:25.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They're not coming out of whole cloth. So, next time you have a chance to speak,
Dialogue: 0,1:46:25.100,1:46:34.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I encourage you to explain to us why... why we should accept your word for it that natural law changed
Dialogue: 0,1:46:34.93,1:46:43.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,just 4,000 years ago, completely. And there's no record of it. You know, there are pyramids that are older than that.
Dialogue: 0,1:46:43.87,1:46:51.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There are human populations that are far older than that, with traditions that go back farther that that.
Dialogue: 0,1:46:51.56,1:46:56.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And it's just not reasonable to me that everything changed 4,000 years ago.
Dialogue: 0,1:46:56.43,1:47:01.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,By everything, I mean the species, the surface of the Earth, the stars in the sky,
Dialogue: 0,1:47:02.46,1:47:07.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the relationship of all the other living things on Earth to humans.
Dialogue: 0,1:47:07.26,1:47:10.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's just not reasonable to me that everything changed like that. (Snaps fingers.)
Dialogue: 0,1:47:10.46,1:47:15.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And another thing I would very much appreciate you addressing:
Dialogue: 0,1:47:15.70,1:47:21.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,there are billions of people in the world who are deeply religious. And I respect that.
Dialogue: 0,1:47:22.17,1:47:27.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,People get tremendous community and comfort and nurture and support from their religious fellows
Dialogue: 0,1:47:27.90,1:47:31.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in their communities, in their faiths, in their churches.
Dialogue: 0,1:47:32.46,1:47:34.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And yet, they don't accept your point of view.
Dialogue: 0,1:47:35.83,1:47:42.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There are Christians who don't accept that the Earth could somehow be this extraordinary young age
Dialogue: 0,1:47:42.73,1:47:48.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because of all the evidence around them. And so, what is to become of them, in your view?
Dialogue: 0,1:47:48.93,1:47:56.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And by the way, this thing started, as I understand it, Ken Ham's creation model is based on the Old Testament.
Dialogue: 0,1:47:56.83,1:48:01.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So when you bring in, I'm not a theologian, when you bring in the New Testament,
Dialogue: 0,1:48:01.70,1:48:08.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,isn't that little, uh, out of the box? I'm looking for explanations of the creation of the world
Dialogue: 0,1:48:08.100,1:48:17.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as we know it, uh, based on what I'm gonna call science. Not historical science, not observational science.
Dialogue: 0,1:48:18.30,1:48:22.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Science: things that each of us can do akin to what we do, we're trying to outguess the characters
Dialogue: 0,1:48:23.36,1:48:30.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on murder mystery shows, on crime scene investigation, especially.
Dialogue: 0,1:48:30.93,1:48:35.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What is to become of all those people, who don't see it your way?
Dialogue: 0,1:48:35.70,1:48:41.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,For us, in the scientific community, I remind you, that when we find an idea that's not tenable,
Dialogue: 0,1:48:42.03,1:48:50.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that doesn't work, that doesn't fly, doesn't hold water, whatever idiom you'd like to embrace, we throw it away.
Dialogue: 0,1:48:50.50,1:48:54.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We are delighted. That's why I say, if you can find a fossil that has swum between the layers, bring it on!
Dialogue: 0,1:48:55.36,1:49:00.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You would change the world. If you could show that somehow the microwave background radiation
Dialogue: 0,1:49:00.71,1:49:06.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is not a result of the Big Bang, come on! Write your paper. Tear it up!
Dialogue: 0,1:49:06.66,1:49:14.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, your view, that we're supposed to take your word for this book written centuries ago,
Dialogue: 0,1:49:14.47,1:49:20.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,translated into American English, is somehow more important that what I can see with my own eyes,
Dialogue: 0,1:49:21.03,1:49:27.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is an extraordinary claim. And, for those watching online, especially, I want to remind you
Dialogue: 0,1:49:27.60,1:49:31.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that we need scientists, and especially engineers for the future.
Dialogue: 0,1:49:31.90,1:49:36.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Engineers use science to solve problems and make things. We need these people
Dialogue: 0,1:49:36.90,1:49:40.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so that the United States can continue to innovate and continue to be a world leader.
Dialogue: 0,1:49:41.27,1:49:45.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We need innovation, and that needs science education. Thank you.
Dialogue: 0,1:49:46.10,1:49:51.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Moderator: All right. Thank you both. Uh, now we're going to get to the things moving a little bit faster.
Dialogue: 0,1:49:51.43,1:49:55.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think they might be quite interesting here. It's 40 to 45 minutes, maybe a little bit more, actually.
Dialogue: 0,1:49:55.53,1:50:00.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We'll have a little more. For questions and answers submitted by our audience here in the Creation Museum.
Dialogue: 0,1:50:00.50,1:50:03.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Beforehand, we handed out these cards to everyone. I shuffled them here in the back,
Dialogue: 0,1:50:03.46,1:50:07.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and in fact, I dropped a lot of them, and then I scooped them up again.
Dialogue: 0,1:50:07.97,1:50:13.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And if you saw me sorting through them here, it was to get a pile for Mr. Nye and a pile for Mr. Ham,
Dialogue: 0,1:50:14.20,1:50:18.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so that we can alternate reasonably between them. Other than that, the only reason I will skip over one
Dialogue: 0,1:50:19.07,1:50:23.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is if I can't read it, or if it's a question that I don't know how to read because it doesn't seem to make any sense,
Dialogue: 0,1:50:23.83,1:50:27.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which sometimes happens just because of the way people write. (Audience laughs.)
Dialogue: 0,1:50:27.50,1:50:31.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What's going to happen is we're gonna go back and forth between Mr. Nye and Mr. Ham.
Dialogue: 0,1:50:31.70,1:50:36.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Each debater will have two minutes to answer the question addressed to him,
Dialogue: 0,1:50:36.73,1:50:41.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and then the other will have one minute to also answer the question, even though it was addressed to the other man.
Dialogue: 0,1:50:41.98,1:50:45.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I did pull one card aside here, because I noticed it was to both men.
Dialogue: 0,1:50:45.98,1:50:49.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So we may be able to get to that at some point. Mr. Ham, you've been up first, if you'll hop up first this time.
Dialogue: 0,1:50:49.63,1:50:52.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And Mr. Nye, you can stand by for your responses. Two minutes.
Dialogue: 0,1:50:52.83,1:51:00.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,How does creationism account for the celestial bodies: planets, stars, moons moving further and further apart?
Dialogue: 0,1:51:00.40,1:51:03.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And what function does that serve in the grand design?
Dialogue: 0,1:51:04.26,1:51:09.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Ken Ham: Well, when it comes to looking at the universe, of course, we believe, that in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
Dialogue: 0,1:51:10.16,1:51:15.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I believe our creationist astronomers would say, "Yeah, you can observe the universe expanding."
Dialogue: 0,1:51:15.70,1:51:20.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Why God is doing that? In fact, in Bible it even says He stretches out the heavens.
Dialogue: 0,1:51:20.100,1:51:24.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And seems to indicate that there is an expansion of the universe.
Dialogue: 0,1:51:25.03,1:51:30.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so, we would say, yeah, you can observe that. That fits with what we call observational science.
Dialogue: 0,1:51:30.96,1:51:34.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Exactly why God did it that way? I can't answer that question, of course,
Dialogue: 0,1:51:35.10,1:51:40.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because, you know, the Bible says that God made the heavens for his glory.
Dialogue: 0,1:51:40.40,1:51:47.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And that's why he made the stars that we see out there. And it's to tell us how great He is and how big He is.
Dialogue: 0,1:51:47.47,1:51:53.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And in fact, I think that's the thing about the universe. The universe is so large, so big out there.
Dialogue: 0,1:51:53.57,1:51:58.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,One of our planetarium programs looks at this. We go in and show you how large the universe is.
Dialogue: 0,1:51:58.96,1:52:05.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I think it shows us how great God is, how big He is, that He's an all-powerful God,
Dialogue: 0,1:52:05.36,1:52:11.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,He's an infinite God, an infinite, all-knowing God who created the universe to show us his power.
Dialogue: 0,1:52:12.02,1:52:16.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I mean, can you imagine that, and the thing that's really remarkable in the Bible.
Dialogue: 0,1:52:16.10,1:52:21.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,For instance, it says on the fourth day of creation, and oh, he made the stars also.
Dialogue: 0,1:52:21.43,1:52:26.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's almost like, "Oh, by the way, I made the stars." Um, and just to show us He's an all-powerful God.
Dialogue: 0,1:52:26.94,1:52:31.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,He's an infinite God. So, "I made the stars." And he made them to show us how great He is.
Dialogue: 0,1:52:31.50,1:52:35.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And He is. He's an infinite creator God. And the more that you understand what that means,
Dialogue: 0,1:52:35.67,1:52:41.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that God is all-powerful, infinite, you stand back in awe. You realize how small we are.
Dialogue: 0,1:52:41.37,1:52:48.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You realize, wow, that God would consider this planet, is so significant that he created human beings here,
Dialogue: 0,1:52:48.24,1:52:52.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,knowing they would sin, and yet stepped into history to die for us and be raised from the dead.
Dialogue: 0,1:52:53.02,1:52:57.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Our verse, the free gift of salvation. Wow! What a God!
Dialogue: 0,1:52:57.46,1:53:00.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And that's what I would say when I see the universe as it is.
Dialogue: 0,1:53:00.77,1:53:04.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Moderator: Mr. Nye, one minute. And your response?
Dialogue: 0,1:53:04.10,1:53:10.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Bill Nye: There's a question that troubles us all from the time when we are absolutely youngest and first able to think.
Dialogue: 0,1:53:10.86,1:53:15.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And that is, where did we come from? Where did I come from?
Dialogue: 0,1:53:15.03,1:53:21.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And this question is so compelling that we've invented the science of astronomy.
Dialogue: 0,1:53:21.18,1:53:24.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We've invented life science. We've invented physics.
Dialogue: 0,1:53:24.73,1:53:31.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We've discovered these natural laws so that we can learn more about our origin and where we came from.
Dialogue: 0,1:53:31.18,1:53:38.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,To you, when it says, He invented the stars also, that's satisfying. You're done.
Dialogue: 0,1:53:38.63,1:53:43.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Oh, good. Okay. To me, when I look at the night sky, I want to know what's out there.
Dialogue: 0,1:53:43.100,1:53:49.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'm driven. I want to know if what's out there is any part of me, and indeed, it is.
Dialogue: 0,1:53:49.70,1:53:55.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The "oh, by the way" I find compelling you are satisfied.
Dialogue: 0,1:53:55.60,1:54:00.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And the big thing I want from you, Mr. Ham, is can you come up with something that you can predict?
Dialogue: 0,1:54:00.45,1:54:04.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Do you have a creation model that predicts something that will happen in nature?
Dialogue: 0,1:54:04.86,1:54:08.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Moderator: And that's time. Mr. Nye, the next question is for you.
Dialogue: 0,1:54:08.14,1:54:11.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,How did the atoms that created the Big Bang get there?
Dialogue: 0,1:54:11.60,1:54:20.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Bill Nye: This is the great mystery. You've hit the nail on the head. No, this is so, where did, what was before the Big Bang?
Dialogue: 0,1:54:20.34,1:54:25.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This is what drives us. This is what we want to know. Let's keep looking. Let's keep searching.
Dialogue: 0,1:54:25.77,1:54:31.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Uh, when I was young, it was presumed that the universe was slowing down.
Dialogue: 0,1:54:31.70,1:54:37.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's a big bang, phrooo! Except it's in outer space, there's no air, so (quietly) it goes out like that.
Dialogue: 0,1:54:37.43,1:54:47.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so people presumed that it would slow down, that the universe, the gravity, especially,
Dialogue: 0,1:54:47.97,1:54:49.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,would hold everything together and maybe it's going to come back and explode again.
Dialogue: 0,1:54:49.10,1:54:52.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And people went out. And the mathematical expression is: is the universe flat?
Dialogue: 0,1:54:52.45,1:54:58.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's a mathematical expression. Will the universe slow down, slow down, slow down asymptotically without ever stopping?
Dialogue: 0,1:54:58.43,1:55:06.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Well, in 2004, Saul Perlmutter and his colleagues went looking for the rate at which the universe was slowing down.
Dialogue: 0,1:55:06.56,1:55:11.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Let's go out and measure it. And we're doing it with this extraordinary system of telescopes around the world,
Dialogue: 0,1:55:12.06,1:55:19.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,looking at the night sky, looking for supernovae. These are a standard brightness that you can infer distances with.
Dialogue: 0,1:55:19.31,1:55:25.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And the universe isn't slowing down. It's accelerating! The universe is accelerating in its expansion.
Dialogue: 0,1:55:25.40,1:55:31.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And do you know why? Nobody knows why! (audience laughs) Nobody knows why.
Dialogue: 0,1:55:31.21,1:55:37.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And you'll hear the expression nowadays, dark energy, dark matter, which are mathematical ideas that seem
Dialogue: 0,1:55:37.96,1:55:45.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to reckon well with what seems to be the gravitational attraction of clusters of stars, galaxies, and their expansion.
Dialogue: 0,1:55:45.34,1:55:52.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And then, isn't it reasonable that whatever's out there, causing the universe to expand, is here also?
Dialogue: 0,1:55:52.28,1:55:55.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And we just haven't figured out how to detect it.
Dialogue: 0,1:55:55.10,1:56:01.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,My friends, suppose a science student from the commonwealth of Kentucky pursues a career in science
Dialogue: 0,1:56:01.47,1:56:10.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and finds out the answer to that deep question? Where did we come from? What was before the Big Bang?
Dialogue: 0,1:56:10.00,1:56:14.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,To us, this is wonderful and charming and compelling. This is what makes us get up and go to work everyday,
Dialogue: 0,1:56:14.15,1:56:17.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is to try to solve the mysteries of the universe.
Dialogue: 0,1:56:17.07,1:56:18.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Moderator: And that's time. Mr. Ham, a response?
Dialogue: 0,1:56:19.01,1:56:22.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Ken Ham: Uh, Bill, I just want to let you know that there actually is
Dialogue: 0,1:56:22.53,1:56:27.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a book out there that actually tells us where matter came from. (Audience laughs.)
Dialogue: 0,1:56:27.83,1:56:33.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And, the very first sentence in that book says, "In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.
Dialogue: 0,1:56:33.65,1:56:39.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And really, that's the only thing that makes sense. That's the only thing that makes sense of why, not just matter is here,
Dialogue: 0,1:56:39.25,1:56:49.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,where it came from, but why matter, when you look at it, we have information and language systems that build life.
Dialogue: 0,1:56:49.03,1:56:53.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We're not just matter. And where did that come from? Because matter can never produce information.
Dialogue: 0,1:56:53.90,1:56:57.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Matter can never produce a language system. Languages only come from intelligence.
Dialogue: 0,1:56:57.84,1:57:03.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Information only comes from information. The Bible tells us that the things we see, like in the book of Hebrews,
Dialogue: 0,1:57:03.86,1:57:09.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,are made from things that are unseen. An infinite creator God who created the universe,
Dialogue: 0,1:57:09.81,1:57:14.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,created matter, the energy, space, mass, time universe, and created the information for life.
Dialogue: 0,1:57:14.64,1:57:16.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's the only thing that makes logical sense.
Dialogue: 0,1:57:16.98,1:57:21.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Moderator: Alright, Mr. Ham, a new question here. The overwhelming majority of people in the
Dialogue: 0,1:57:22.53,1:57:25.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,scientific community have presented valid, physical evidence, such as carbon dating and fossils,
Dialogue: 0,1:57:25.74,1:57:32.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to support evolutionary theory. What evidence besides the literal word of the Bible supports creationism?
Dialogue: 0,1:57:33.05,1:57:37.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Ken Ham: Well, first of all, you know, I often hear people talking about "the majority".
Dialogue: 0,1:57:37.20,1:57:41.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I would agree that the majority of scientists would believe
Dialogue: 0,1:57:41.97,1:57:45.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in millions of years and the majority would believe in evolution,
Dialogue: 0,1:57:45.28,1:57:48.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but there's a large group out there that certainly don't.
Dialogue: 0,1:57:48.67,1:57:56.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But, first thing I want to say is, it's not the majority that's the judge of truth.
Dialogue: 0,1:57:57.00,1:58:01.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There have been many times in the past when the majority have got it wrong.
Dialogue: 0,1:58:01.13,1:58:04.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The majority of doctors in England once thought after you cut up bodies,
Dialogue: 0,1:58:04.60,1:58:06.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you could go and deliver babies and wondered why
Dialogue: 0,1:58:06.08,1:58:08.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the death rate was high in hospitals,
Dialogue: 0,1:58:08.13,1:58:13.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,till they found out about diseases caused by bacteria and so on.
Dialogue: 0,1:58:13.36,1:58:17.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The majority once thought the appendix was a leftover organ
Dialogue: 0,1:58:17.73,1:58:20.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,from evolutionary ancestry, so, you know, when it's okay,
Dialogue: 0,1:58:20.53,1:58:23.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,rip it out. When it's diseased, rip it out. Rip it out anyway.
Dialogue: 0,1:58:23.78,1:58:28.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But these days we know that it's for the immune system
Dialogue: 0,1:58:28.36,1:58:29.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and it's very, very important.
Dialogue: 0,1:58:29.73,1:58:33.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, you know, it's important to understand that just because
Dialogue: 0,1:58:33.71,1:58:36.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the majority believe something doesn't mean that it's true.
Dialogue: 0,1:58:36.71,1:58:40.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And then, I'm sorry, I missed the last part of the question there.
Dialogue: 0,1:58:40.20,1:58:43.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Moderator: What was the--let me make sure I have the right question here--
Dialogue: 0,1:58:43.81,1:58:47.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So what evidence besides the literal word of the bible--
Dialogue: 0,1:58:47.40,1:58:50.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Ken Ham: Okay, one of the things I was doing was making predictions.\N
Dialogue: 0,1:58:50.87,1:58:53.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I made some predictions. There's a whole list of predictions.
Dialogue: 0,1:58:53.17,1:58:56.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I was saying, if the Bible's right and we're all descendants
Dialogue: 0,1:58:56.63,1:58:59.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of Adam and Eve, there's one race. And I went through and talked about that.
Dialogue: 0,1:58:59.71,1:59:02.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If the Bible's right and God made kinds, I went through
Dialogue: 0,1:59:02.45,1:59:06.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and talked about that. And, so, really that question comes down
Dialogue: 0,1:59:06.57,1:59:09.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to the fact that we're again dealing with the fact that there's aspects
Dialogue: 0,1:59:09.53,1:59:12.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about the past that you can't scientifically prove because
Dialogue: 0,1:59:12.24,1:59:14.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you weren't there, but observational science in the present.
Dialogue: 0,1:59:14.76,1:59:18.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Bill and I all have the same observational science. We're here in the present.
Dialogue: 0,1:59:18.34,1:59:21.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We can see radioactivity, but when it comes to then talking about the past,
Dialogue: 0,1:59:21.76,1:59:24.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you're not going to be scientifically able to prove that.
Dialogue: 0,1:59:24.07,1:59:28.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And that's what we need to admit. We can be great scientists in the present,
Dialogue: 0,1:59:28.19,1:59:32.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as the examples I gave you of Dr. Damadian or Dr. Stuart Burgess
Dialogue: 0,1:59:32.70,1:59:36.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or Dr. Fabich and we can be investigating the present.
Dialogue: 0,1:59:36.30,1:59:39.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Understanding the past is a whole different matter.
Dialogue: 0,1:59:39.22,1:59:40.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Moderator: Mr. Nye, one minute response.
Dialogue: 0,1:59:40.70,1:59:45.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Thank you, Mr. Ham. I have to disabuse you of a fundamental idea.
Dialogue: 0,1:59:45.79,1:59:51.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If a scientist, if anybody, makes a discovery that changes
Dialogue: 0,1:59:51.50,1:59:56.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the way people view natural law, scientists embrace him or her!
Dialogue: 0,1:59:56.49,2:00:00.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This person's fantastic. Louis Pasteur--you made reference to germs.
Dialogue: 0,2:00:00.92,2:00:06.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Now, if you find something that changes, that disagrees with common thought,
Dialogue: 0,2:00:06.96,2:00:08.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that's the greatest thing going in science.
Dialogue: 0,2:00:08.90,2:00:11.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We look forward to that change. We challenge you--
Dialogue: 0,2:00:12.07,2:00:14.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,tell us why the universe is accelerating.
Dialogue: 0,2:00:15.05,2:00:18.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Tell us why these mothers were getting sick.
Dialogue: 0,2:00:18.32,2:00:24.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And we found an explanation for it. And the idea that the majority
Dialogue: 0,2:00:24.24,2:00:28.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,has sway in science is true only up a point.
Dialogue: 0,2:00:28.32,2:00:30.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And then, the other thing I just want to point out, what you may
Dialogue: 0,2:00:30.60,2:00:34.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,have missed in evolutionary explanations of life
Dialogue: 0,2:00:34.45,2:00:38.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is it's the mechanism by which we add complexity.
Dialogue: 0,2:00:38.08,2:00:41.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The earth is getting energy from the sun all the time.
Dialogue: 0,2:00:41.16,2:00:45.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And that energy is used to make lifeforms somewhat more complex.
Dialogue: 0,2:00:45.60,2:00:46.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Moderator: And that's time.
Dialogue: 0,2:00:47.20,2:00:48.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,New question for you, Mr. Nye.
Dialogue: 0,2:00:48.22,2:00:51.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,How did consciousness come from matter?
Dialogue: 0,2:00:51.30,2:00:55.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Bill Nye: Don't know. This is a great mystery.
Dialogue: 0,2:00:55.43,2:01:02.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,A dear friend of mine is a neurologist. She studies the nature of consciousness.
Dialogue: 0,2:01:02.66,2:01:09.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Now I will say I used to embrace a joke about dogs.
Dialogue: 0,2:01:09.48,2:01:11.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I love dogs. I mean, who doesn't?
Dialogue: 0,2:01:11.63,2:01:15.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And you can say, this guy remarked,
Dialogue: 0,2:01:15.27,2:01:17.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"I've never seen a dog paralyzed by self-doubt." Actually, I have.
Dialogue: 0,2:01:17.66,2:01:27.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Furthermore, the thing that we celebrate, there are three sundials
Dialogue: 0,2:01:27.63,2:01:30.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on the planet Mars that bare an inscription to the future:
Dialogue: 0,2:01:30.54,2:01:34.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"To those who visit here, we wish you a safe journey and the joy of discovery."
Dialogue: 0,2:01:35.04,2:01:38.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's inherently optimistic about the future of humankind,
Dialogue: 0,2:01:38.30,2:01:41.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that we will one day walk on Mars. But the joy of discovery...
Dialogue: 0,2:01:41.95,2:01:46.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that's what drives us. The joy of finding out what's going on.
Dialogue: 0,2:01:46.52,2:01:50.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So we don't know where consciousness comes from. But we want to find out.
Dialogue: 0,2:01:50.11,2:01:54.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Furthermore, I'll tell you it's deep within us. I claim that I
Dialogue: 0,2:01:54.43,2:01:58.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,have spent time with dogs that have had the joy of discovery!
Dialogue: 0,2:01:58.43,2:02:03.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's way inside us! We have one ancestor, as near as we can figure.
Dialogue: 0,2:02:03.08,2:02:08.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And, by the way, if you can find what we in science call "a second genesis",
Dialogue: 0,2:02:08.12,2:02:11.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,this is to say, "Did life start another way on the earth?"
Dialogue: 0,2:02:11.86,2:02:15.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There are researchers at Astrobiology Institute,
Dialogue: 0,2:02:15.27,2:02:17.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,researchers supported by NASA, your tax dollars,
Dialogue: 0,2:02:17.48,2:02:18.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that are looking for answers to that very question.
Dialogue: 0,2:02:18.33,2:02:21.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Is it possible that life could start another way?
Dialogue: 0,2:02:21.70,2:02:25.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Is there some sort of life form akin to science fiction
Dialogue: 0,2:02:26.04,2:02:29.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that's crystal instead of membranous. This would be a fantastic
Dialogue: 0,2:02:29.73,2:02:32.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,discovery that would change the world!
Dialogue: 0,2:02:32.42,2:02:34.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The nature of consciousness is a mystery.
Dialogue: 0,2:02:35.07,2:02:39.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I challenge the young people here to investigate that very question.
Dialogue: 0,2:02:39.88,2:02:43.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I remind you--taxpayers and voters that might be watching--
Dialogue: 0,2:02:43.72,2:02:47.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,if we do not embrace the process of science,
Dialogue: 0,2:02:47.05,2:02:50.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I mean in the mainstream, we will fall behind economically.
Dialogue: 0,2:02:50.46,2:02:52.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This is a point I can't say enough.
Dialogue: 0,2:02:52.48,2:02:54.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Moderator: Mr. Ham, a one minute response.
Dialogue: 0,2:02:54.77,2:02:58.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Ken Ham: Bill, I do want to say that there is a book out there... (audience laughs)
Dialogue: 0,2:02:58.55,2:03:03.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that does document where consciousness came from.
Dialogue: 0,2:03:03.85,2:03:09.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And in that book, the one who created us said that he made man in His image,
Dialogue: 0,2:03:09.37,2:03:12.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and He breathed into man, and he became a living being.
Dialogue: 0,2:03:12.98,2:03:18.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so, the Bible does document that. That's where consciousness came from,
Dialogue: 0,2:03:18.63,2:03:21.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that God gave it to us. And, you know, the other thing I want to say is,
Dialogue: 0,2:03:21.69,2:03:27.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'm sorta of a little, I have a mystery. That is, you talk about the joy of discovery
Dialogue: 0,2:03:27.90,2:03:31.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but you also say that when you die, it's over, and that's the end of you.
Dialogue: 0,2:03:31.68,2:03:37.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And if when you die, it's over, and you don't even remember you were here, what's the point of the joy of discovery anyway?
Dialogue: 0,2:03:37.50,2:03:42.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I mean, in an ultimate sense? I mean, you know, you won't ever know you were ever here,
Dialogue: 0,2:03:42.83,2:03:47.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and no one who knew you will know they were ever here, ultimately, so what's the point anyway?
Dialogue: 0,2:03:47.27,2:03:52.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I love the joy of discovery because this is God's creation,
Dialogue: 0,2:03:52.31,2:03:58.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I'm finding more out about that to take dominion for man's good and for God's glory.
Dialogue: 0,2:03:58.57,2:04:00.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Moderator: And that's time. Mr. Ham, a new question.
Dialogue: 0,2:04:00.37,2:04:06.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This is a simple question, I suppose, but one that actually is fairly profound for all of us, in our lives.
Dialogue: 0,2:04:06.37,2:04:11.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What, if anything, would ever change your mind?
Dialogue: 0,2:04:11.26,2:04:18.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Ken Ham: Hmm. Well, the answer to that question is,
Dialogue: 0,2:04:19.04,2:04:26.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'm a Christian, and as a Christian, I can't prove it to you,
Dialogue: 0,2:04:26.46,2:04:32.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but God has definitely, shown me very clearly
Dialogue: 0,2:04:32.89,2:04:39.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,through His Word, and shown Himself in the person of Jesus Christ.
Dialogue: 0,2:04:39.60,2:04:43.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The Bible is the Word of God. I admit that that's where I start from.
Dialogue: 0,2:04:43.63,2:04:46.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I can challenge people that you can go and test that.
Dialogue: 0,2:04:46.98,2:04:51.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You can make predictions based on that. You can check the prophecies in the Bible.
Dialogue: 0,2:04:51.36,2:04:55.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You can check the statements in Genesis. You can check that.
Dialogue: 0,2:04:55.41,2:05:00.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I did a little bit of that tonight. And I can't ultimately prove that to you.
Dialogue: 0,2:05:00.13,2:05:05.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,All I can do is to say to someone, "Look, if the Bible really is what it claims to be,
Dialogue: 0,2:05:05.33,2:05:09.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,if it really is the Word of God, and that's what it claims, then check it out."
Dialogue: 0,2:05:09.63,2:05:13.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And the Bible says, "If you come to God believing that He is, He'll reveal Himself to you."
Dialogue: 0,2:05:13.50,2:05:17.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And you will know. As Christians, we can say we know.
Dialogue: 0,2:05:17.24,2:05:23.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so, as far as the Word of God is concerned, no, no one's ever going to convince me
Dialogue: 0,2:05:23.17,2:05:29.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that the Word of God is not true. But I do want to make a distinction here.
Dialogue: 0,2:05:29.56,2:05:33.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And for Bill's sake. We build models based upon the Bible.
Dialogue: 0,2:05:33.20,2:05:35.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And those models are always subject to change.
Dialogue: 0,2:05:35.18,2:05:38.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The fact of Noah's flood is not subject to change.
Dialogue: 0,2:05:38.12,2:05:41.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The model of how the flood occurred is subject to change
Dialogue: 0,2:05:41.29,2:05:46.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because we observe in the current world,
Dialogue: 0,2:05:46.23,2:05:49.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and we're able to come up with different ways this could have happened or that could have happened.
Dialogue: 0,2:05:49.97,2:05:53.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And that's part of that scientific discovery. That's part of what it's all about.
Dialogue: 0,2:05:54.30,2:06:00.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, the bottom line is that as a Christian, I have a foundation.
Dialogue: 0,2:06:00.24,2:06:04.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That as a Christian, I would ask Bill a question. What would change your mind?
Dialogue: 0,2:06:04.60,2:06:09.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I mean, you said, even if you came to faith, you'd never give up believing in billions of years.
Dialogue: 0,2:06:09.23,2:06:13.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think I quoted you correctly. You said something like that recently.
Dialogue: 0,2:06:13.53,2:06:15.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So that would be also my question to Bill.
Dialogue: 0,2:06:16.04,2:06:17.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Moderator: Time. Mr. Nye?
Dialogue: 0,2:06:18.03,2:06:20.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Bill Nye: We would just need one piece of evidence.
Dialogue: 0,2:06:20.51,2:06:23.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We would need the fossil that swam from one layer to another.
Dialogue: 0,2:06:23.93,2:06:26.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We would need evidence that the universe is not expanding.
Dialogue: 0,2:06:26.33,2:06:30.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We would need evidence that the stars appear to be far away, but in fact, they're not.
Dialogue: 0,2:06:30.81,2:06:34.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We would need evidence that rock layers can somehow form
Dialogue: 0,2:06:34.98,2:06:37.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in just 4,000 years instead of the extraordinary amount.
Dialogue: 0,2:06:38.13,2:06:43.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We would need evidence that somehow you can reset atomic clocks and keep neutrons from becoming protons.
Dialogue: 0,2:06:43.77,2:06:49.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You bring on any of those things and you would change me immediately.
Dialogue: 0,2:06:49.97,2:06:51.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The question I have for you though, fundamentally,
Dialogue: 0,2:06:51.60,2:06:55.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and for everybody watching. Mr. Ham, what can you prove?
Dialogue: 0,2:06:56.46,2:07:00.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What you have done tonight is spent most of the, all of the time
Dialogue: 0,2:07:00.67,2:07:05.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,coming up with explanations about the past. What can you really predict?
Dialogue: 0,2:07:06.10,2:07:09.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What can you really prove in a conventional scientific,
Dialogue: 0,2:07:10.10,2:07:15.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or a conventional, "I have an idea that makes a prediction and it comes out the way I see it?"
Dialogue: 0,2:07:15.57,2:07:18.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This is very troubling to me.
Dialogue: 0,2:07:18.88,2:07:22.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Moderator: Mr. Nye, a new question. Outside of radiometric methods,
Dialogue: 0,2:07:22.90,2:07:26.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,what scientific evidence supports your view of the age of the Earth?
Dialogue: 0,2:07:27.47,2:07:31.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Bill Nye: The age of the earth.. Well, the age of stars.
Dialogue: 0,2:07:32.06,2:07:37.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The... let's see... radiometric evidence is pretty compelling.
Dialogue: 0,2:07:37.53,2:07:45.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Also, the deposition rates. It was, it was, Lillel, a geologist,
Dialogue: 0,2:07:46.26,2:07:52.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who realized, my recollection, he came up with the first use of the term "deep time,"
Dialogue: 0,2:07:52.50,2:07:57.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,when people realized that the Earth had to be much, much older.
Dialogue: 0,2:07:57.29,2:08:05.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In a related story, there was a mystery as to how the Earth could be old enough to allow evolution to have taken place.
Dialogue: 0,2:08:05.80,2:08:09.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,How could the Earth possibly be three billion years old?
Dialogue: 0,2:08:09.24,2:08:12.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Lord Kelvin did a calculation, if the sun were made of coal, and burning,
Dialogue: 0,2:08:12.33,2:08:15.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it couldn't be more than 100,000 or so years old.
Dialogue: 0,2:08:15.91,2:08:23.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But radioactivity was discovered. Radioactivity is why the Earth is still as warm as it is.
Dialogue: 0,2:08:23.21,2:08:28.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's why the Earth has been able to sustain its internal heat all these millenia.
Dialogue: 0,2:08:29.05,2:08:34.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And this discovery, it's something like, this question, without radiometric dating,
Dialogue: 0,2:08:34.30,2:08:35.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,how would you view the age of the Earth,
Dialogue: 0,2:08:35.80,2:08:42.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to me, it's akin to the expression, "Well, if things were any other way, things would be different."
Dialogue: 0,2:08:42.25,2:08:51.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This is to say, that's not how the world is. Radiometric dating DOES exist. Neutrons DO become protons.
Dialogue: 0,2:08:52.10,2:08:56.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And that's our level of understanding today. The universe is accelerating.
Dialogue: 0,2:08:56.46,2:09:02.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,These are all provable facts. That there was a flood 4.000 years ago, is not provable.
Dialogue: 0,2:09:03.03,2:09:09.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In fact, the evidence for me, at least, as a reasonable man, is overwhelming that it couldn't possibly have happened.
Dialogue: 0,2:09:09.50,2:09:17.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There's no evidence for it. Furthermore, Mr. Ham, you never quite addressed this issue of the skulls.
Dialogue: 0,2:09:17.97,2:09:27.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There are many, many steps in what appears to be the creation, or the coming into being of you and me.
Dialogue: 0,2:09:28.54,2:09:33.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And those steps, are consistent with evolutionary theory.
Dialogue: 0,2:09:33.40,2:09:34.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Moderator: And that is time. Mr. Ham, your response.
Dialogue: 0,2:09:35.06,2:09:38.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Ken Ham: By the way, I just want people to understand, too,
Dialogue: 0,2:09:38.47,2:09:40.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in regard to the age of the Earth being about four and a half billion years,
Dialogue: 0,2:09:40.90,2:09:43.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,no Earth rock was dated to get that date. They dated meteorites,
Dialogue: 0,2:09:44.13,2:09:48.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and because they assumed meteorites were the same age as the Earth,
Dialogue: 0,2:09:48.90,2:09:51.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,leftover from the formation of the solar system, that's where that comes from.
Dialogue: 0,2:09:51.83,2:09:54.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,People think they dated rocks on the Earth to get the four and a half billion years. That's just not true.
Dialogue: 0,2:09:55.03,2:09:59.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And the other point that I was making, and I just put this slide back up,
Dialogue: 0,2:09:59.70,2:10:01.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,cause I happened to just have it here. And that is,
Dialogue: 0,2:10:01.80,2:10:06.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I said at the end of my first rebuttal time, that there are hundreds of physical processes
Dialogue: 0,2:10:06.23,2:10:08.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that set limits on the age of the Earth. Here's the point.
Dialogue: 0,2:10:08.20,2:10:12.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Every dating method involves a change with time. And there are hundreds of them.
Dialogue: 0,2:10:12.65,2:10:17.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And, if you assume what was there to start with, and you assume something about the rate,
Dialogue: 0,2:10:17.97,2:10:22.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and you know about the rate, you make lots of those assumptions. Every dating method has those assumptions.
Dialogue: 0,2:10:22.52,2:10:26.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Most of the dating methods, 90% of them, contradict the billions of years.
Dialogue: 0,2:10:26.93,2:10:35.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There's no absolute age dating method from scientific method because you can't prove scientifically, young or old.
Dialogue: 0,2:10:35.83,2:10:38.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Moderator: And, here is a new question.
Dialogue: 0,2:10:38.40,2:10:45.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It starts with you, Mr. Ham. Can you reconcile the change in the rate continents are now drifting,
Dialogue: 0,2:10:45.63,2:10:49.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,versus how quickly they must have traveled at creation, 6,000 years ago?
Dialogue: 0,2:10:49.100,2:10:52.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Ken Ham: Uh, the rate. Sorry I missed that word.
Dialogue: 0,2:10:52.63,2:10:58.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Moderator: Can you reconcile the speed at which continents are now drifting, today, to the rate
Dialogue: 0,2:10:58.83,2:11:04.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they would have had to have travelled 6,000 years ago, to reach where we are now? I think that's the question.
Dialogue: 0,2:11:04.28,2:11:08.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Ken Ham: Okay, I think I understand the question. Um, actually, this again,
Dialogue: 0,2:11:08.90,2:11:13.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,illustrates exactly what I'm talking about in regard to historical science and observational science.
Dialogue: 0,2:11:13.68,2:11:20.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We can look at continents today. And we have scientists who have written papers about this on our website.
Dialogue: 0,2:11:20.60,2:11:23.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I am definitely not an expert in this area and don't claim to be.
Dialogue: 0,2:11:23.99,2:11:29.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Uh, but there are scientists, even Dr. Andrew Snelling, our Ph.D. geologist,
Dialogue: 0,2:11:29.23,2:11:35.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,has done a lot of research here, too, as well. There are others out there into plate tectonics and continental drift.
Dialogue: 0,2:11:36.13,2:11:41.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And certainly, we can see movements of plates today. And if you look at those movements,
Dialogue: 0,2:11:41.47,2:11:47.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and if you assume the way it's moving today, the rate it's moving, that it's always been that way in the past,
Dialogue: 0,2:11:48.13,2:11:53.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,see that's an assumption. That's the problem when it comes to understanding these things.
Dialogue: 0,2:11:53.37,2:11:57.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You can observe movement, but then to assume that it's always been like that in the past,
Dialogue: 0,2:11:57.37,2:12:03.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that's historical science. And in fact, we would believe basically in catastrophic plate tectonics,
Dialogue: 0,2:12:03.55,2:12:10.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that as a result of the flood, at the time of the flood, there was catastrophic breakup of the Earth's surface.
Dialogue: 0,2:12:10.25,2:12:15.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And what we're seeing now is sort of, if you like, a remnant of that movement.
Dialogue: 0,2:12:15.40,2:12:19.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so, we do not deny the movement. We do not deny the plates.
Dialogue: 0,2:12:20.08,2:12:26.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What we would deny is that you can use what you see today as a basis for just extrapolating into the past.
Dialogue: 0,2:12:26.87,2:12:31.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's the same with the flood. You can say layers today only get laid down slowly in places,
Dialogue: 0,2:12:32.20,2:12:35.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but if there was a global flood, that would have changed all of that.
Dialogue: 0,2:12:35.40,2:12:39.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Again, it's this emphasis on historical science and observational science.
Dialogue: 0,2:12:39.60,2:12:42.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I would encourage people to go to our website at Answers in Genesis
Dialogue: 0,2:12:43.11,2:12:46.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because we do have a number of papers, in fact, very technical papers.
Dialogue: 0,2:12:46.70,2:12:52.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Dr. John Baumgardner is one who's written some very extensive work dealing with this very issue.
Dialogue: 0,2:12:52.67,2:12:56.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,On the basis of the Bible, of course, we believe there's one continent to start with,
Dialogue: 0,2:12:56.72,2:13:01.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,cause the waters were gathered here there into one place. So we do believe that the continent has split up.
Dialogue: 0,2:13:01.74,2:13:04.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But particularly, the flood had a lot to do with that.
Dialogue: 0,2:13:05.10,2:13:07.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Moderator: And time on that. Mr. Nye, a response.
Dialogue: 0,2:13:07.80,2:13:13.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Bill Nye: It must have been easier for you to explain this a century ago
Dialogue: 0,2:13:13.27,2:13:17.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,before the existence of tectonic plates was proven.
Dialogue: 0,2:13:17.27,2:13:23.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If you go into a clock store and there's a bunch of clocks, they're not all gonna say exactly the same thing.
Dialogue: 0,2:13:23.46,2:13:26.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Do you think that they're all wrong?
Dialogue: 0,2:13:26.60,2:13:30.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The reason that we acknowledge the rate at which continents are drifting apart,
Dialogue: 0,2:13:31.33,2:13:35.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,one of the reasons, is we see what's called sea floor spreading in the Mid-Atlantic.
Dialogue: 0,2:13:35.43,2:13:39.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The earth's magnetic field has reversed over the millennia
Dialogue: 0,2:13:39.51,2:13:43.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and as it does it leaves a signature in the rocks
Dialogue: 0,2:13:43.100,2:13:46.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as the continental plates drift apart.
Dialogue: 0,2:13:47.20,2:13:52.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So you can measure how fast the continents were spreading.
Dialogue: 0,2:13:52.66,2:13:54.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That's how we do it on the outside.
Dialogue: 0,2:13:54.81,2:13:59.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,As I said, I lived in Washington state when Mount St. Helen's exploded.
Dialogue: 0,2:13:59.43,2:14:03.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That's a result of a continental plate going under another continental plate
Dialogue: 0,2:14:03.76,2:14:07.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and cracking. And this water-laden rock led to a steam explosion.
Dialogue: 0,2:14:08.03,2:14:10.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That's how we do it on the outside.
Dialogue: 0,2:14:10.43,2:14:14.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Moderator: Time. And this is a question for you Mr. Nye. But I guess I could put it to both of you.
Dialogue: 0,2:14:14.40,2:14:16.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,One word answer, please. Favorite color? (laughter)
Dialogue: 0,2:14:16.22,2:14:26.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Mr. Nye: I will go along with most people and say green. And it's an irony that green plants reflect green light.
Dialogue: 0,2:14:26.50,2:14:29.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Moderator: Did I not say one word answer? (laughter) I said one word answer.
Dialogue: 0,2:14:29.93,2:14:34.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Mr. Nye: Most of the light from the sun is green. Yet they reflect it. It's a mystery.
Dialogue: 0,2:14:34.20,2:14:37.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Mr. Hamm: Well, can I have three words seeing as he had three hundred?
Dialogue: 0,2:14:37.40,2:14:39.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Moderator: You can have three.
Dialogue: 0,2:14:39.60,2:14:42.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Mr. Hamm: OK. Observational science. Blue. (laughter)
Dialogue: 0,2:14:42.36,2:14:48.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Moderator: All right. We're back to you, Mr. Nye.
Dialogue: 0,2:14:48.88,2:14:56.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,How do you balance the theory of evolution with the second law of thermodynamics? And I'd like to add a question here.
Dialogue: 0,2:14:57.08,2:14:59.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What is the second law of thermodynamics?
Dialogue: 0,2:14:59.90,2:15:04.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Mr. Nye: Oh, the second law of thermodynamics is fantastic. And I call the words of Eddington who said,
Dialogue: 0,2:15:04.23,2:15:07.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"If you have a theory that disagrees with Isaac Newton, that's a great theory.
Dialogue: 0,2:15:07.67,2:15:10.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If you have a theory that disagrees with relativity, wow, you've changed the world. That's great.
Dialogue: 0,2:15:11.13,2:15:17.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But if your theory disagrees with the second law of thermodynamics, I can offer you no hope. I can't help you."
Dialogue: 0,2:15:17.53,2:15:23.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The second law of thermodynamics basically is where you lose energy to heat.
Dialogue: 0,2:15:24.06,2:15:30.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This is why car engines are about 30% efficient. That's it, thermodynamically. That's why you want the hottest explosion
Dialogue: 0,2:15:30.76,2:15:37.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you can get in the coldest outside environment. You have to have a difference between hot and cold.
Dialogue: 0,2:15:37.67,2:15:44.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And that difference can be assessed scientifically or mathematically with this word entropy, this disorder of molecules.
Dialogue: 0,2:15:44.57,2:15:50.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But the fundamental thing that this questioner has missed is the earth is not a closed system.
Dialogue: 0,2:15:50.80,2:15:57.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So there's energy pouring in here from the sun. If I may, day and night. Ha, Ha.
Dialogue: 0,2:15:57.40,2:16:00.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,'Cause the night, it's pouring in on the other side.
Dialogue: 0,2:16:00.43,2:16:06.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so that energy is what drives living things on earth especially for, in our case, plants.
Dialogue: 0,2:16:06.57,2:16:16.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,By the way, if you're here in Kentucky, about a third and maybe a half of the oxygen you breathe is made in the ocean by phytoplankton.
Dialogue: 0,2:16:16.63,2:16:22.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And they get their energy from the sun. So the second law of thermodynamics is a wonderful thing.
Dialogue: 0,2:16:22.33,2:16:30.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It has allowed us to have every thing you see in this room because our power generation depends on the
Dialogue: 0,2:16:31.13,2:16:37.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,robust and extremely precise computation of how much energy is in burning fuel,
Dialogue: 0,2:16:37.38,2:16:45.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,whether it's nuclear fuel, or fossil fuel, or some extraordinary fuel to be discovered in the future.
Dialogue: 0,2:16:45.33,2:16:50.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The second law of thermodynamics will govern any turbine that makes electricity
Dialogue: 0,2:16:51.17,2:16:54.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that we all depend on; and allowed all these shapes to exist.
Dialogue: 0,2:16:54.54,2:16:56.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Moderator: Any response, Mr. Hamm?
Dialogue: 0,2:16:57.07,2:17:02.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Mr. Hamm: Let me just say two things if I can. If a minute goes that fast along.
Dialogue: 0,2:17:03.16,2:17:08.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,One is, you know what, here's a point we need to understand.
Dialogue: 0,2:17:08.50,2:17:13.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You can have all the energy that you want, but energy or matter will never produce life.
Dialogue: 0,2:17:13.33,2:17:21.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,God imposed information, language system. And that's how we have life.
Dialogue: 0,2:17:21.18,2:17:25.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Matter by itself could never produce life, no matter what energy you have.
Dialogue: 0,2:17:25.87,2:17:29.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And, you know, even if you've got a dead stick, you can have all the energy in the world in that dead stick,
Dialogue: 0,2:17:30.06,2:17:34.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it's going to decay, and it's not going to produce life.
Dialogue: 0,2:17:34.54,2:17:40.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,From a creationist perspective, we certainly agree. I mean, before man sinned, you know,
Dialogue: 0,2:17:40.36,2:17:44.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,there was digestion, and so on, but because of the Fall, now things are running down.
Dialogue: 0,2:17:44.30,2:17:48.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,God doesn't hold everything together as He did back then.
Dialogue: 0,2:17:48.40,2:17:52.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So now we see, in regard to the second law of thermodynamics, we would say it's sort of,
Dialogue: 0,2:17:52.77,2:17:58.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in a sense, a bit out-of-control now, compared to what it was originally, which is why we have a running-down universe.
Dialogue: 0,2:17:58.81,2:18:01.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Moderator: And that's time. A new question for you, Mr. Ham.
Dialogue: 0,2:18:02.05,2:18:08.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Hypothetically, if evidence existed that caused you to have to admit that the Earth was older than 10,000 years,
Dialogue: 0,2:18:09.13,2:18:15.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and creation did not occur over six days, would you still believe in God and the historical Jesus of Nazareth
Dialogue: 0,2:18:15.39,2:18:17.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and that Jesus was the Son of God?
Dialogue: 0,2:18:17.70,2:18:26.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Ken Ham: Well, I've been emphasizing all night. You cannot ever prove using, you know,
Dialogue: 0,2:18:27.03,2:18:30.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the scientific method in the present, you can't prove the age of the Earth.
Dialogue: 0,2:18:30.23,2:18:33.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So you can never prove it's old. So there is no hypothetical. (Mr. Nye quietly chuckles.)
Dialogue: 0,2:18:33.70,2:18:40.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Because you can't do that. Now, we can certainly use methods in the present and making assumptions,
Dialogue: 0,2:18:40.55,2:18:45.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I mean, creationists use methods that change over time. As I said, there's hundreds of
Dialogue: 0,2:18:45.86,2:18:50.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,physical processes that you can use, but they set limits on the age of the universe,
Dialogue: 0,2:18:50.53,2:18:55.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but you can't ultimately prove the age of the Earth, not using the scientific method.
Dialogue: 0,2:18:55.93,2:18:58.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You can't ultimately prove the age of the universe.
Dialogue: 0,2:18:59.05,2:19:04.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Now, you can look at methods, and you can see that there are many methods that contradict billions of years,
Dialogue: 0,2:19:05.19,2:19:07.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,many methods that seem to support thousands of years.
Dialogue: 0,2:19:07.63,2:19:12.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,As Dr. Faulkner said in the little video clip I showed, there is nothing in observational astronomy
Dialogue: 0,2:19:12.76,2:19:18.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that contradicts a young universe. Now, I've said to you before, and I admit again,
Dialogue: 0,2:19:18.83,2:19:23.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that the reason I believe in a young universe is because of the Bible's account of origins.
Dialogue: 0,2:19:23.62,2:19:29.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I believe that God, who has always been there, the infinite creator God, revealed in His Word what He did for us.
Dialogue: 0,2:19:29.74,2:19:32.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And, when we add up those dates, we get thousands of years.
Dialogue: 0,2:19:32.68,2:19:35.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But there's nothing in observational science that contradicts that.
Dialogue: 0,2:19:36.06,2:19:42.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,As far as the age of the Earth, the age of the universe, even when it comes to the fossil record.
Dialogue: 0,2:19:43.06,2:19:46.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That's why I really challenge Christians, if you're gonna believe in millions of years for the fossil record,
Dialogue: 0,2:19:46.87,2:19:53.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you've got a problem with the Bible. And that is, then, that you've got to have death and disease and suffering before sin.
Dialogue: 0,2:19:53.60,2:20:01.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, there is no hypothetical in regard to that. You can't prove scientifically, the age of the Earth or the universe, bottom line.
Dialogue: 0,2:20:01.91,2:20:03.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Moderator: Mr. Nye.
Dialogue: 0,2:20:03.47,2:20:05.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Mr. Nye: Well, of course this is where we disagree.
Dialogue: 0,2:20:05.69,2:20:11.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You can prove the age of the earth with great robustness by observing the universe around us.
Dialogue: 0,2:20:11.59,2:20:17.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I get the feeling, Mr. Hamm, that you want us to take your word for it.
Dialogue: 0,2:20:17.10,2:20:22.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This is to say your interpretation of a book written thousands of years ago,
Dialogue: 0,2:20:22.90,2:20:31.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as translated into American English, is more compelling for you than everything that I can observe in the world around me.
Dialogue: 0,2:20:31.06,2:20:34.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This is where you and I, I think, are not going to see eye to eye.
Dialogue: 0,2:20:34.46,2:20:40.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You said you asserted that life cannot come from something that's not alive. Are you sure?
Dialogue: 0,2:20:40.96,2:20:46.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Are you sure enough to say that we should not continue to look for signs of water and life on Mars?
Dialogue: 0,2:20:46.36,2:20:49.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That that's a waste. You're sure enough to claim that.
Dialogue: 0,2:20:49.56,2:20:55.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That is an extraordinary claim that we want to investigate.
Dialogue: 0,2:20:55.33,2:21:06.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Once again, what is it you can predict? What do you provide us that can tell us something about the future; not just about your vision of the past?
Dialogue: 0,2:21:06.83,2:21:08.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Moderator: A new question, Mr. Nye.
Dialogue: 0,2:21:08.67,2:21:11.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Is there room for God in science?
Dialogue: 0,2:21:11.30,2:21:20.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Mr. Nye: Well, we remind us. There are billions of people around the world who are religious and who accept science
Dialogue: 0,2:21:20.03,2:21:24.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and embrace it, and especially all the technology that it brings us.
Dialogue: 0,2:21:24.50,2:21:29.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Is there anyone here who doesn't have a mobile phone that has a camera?
Dialogue: 0,2:21:29.86,2:21:34.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Is there anyone here whose family members have not benefited from modern medicine?
Dialogue: 0,2:21:34.20,2:21:43.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Is there anyone here who doesn't use e-mail? Is there anybody here who doesn't eat?
Dialogue: 0,2:21:43.03,2:21:48.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Because we use information sent from satellites in space to plant seeds on our farms.
Dialogue: 0,2:21:48.63,2:21:54.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That's how we're able to feed 7.1 billion people where we used to be barely able to feed a billion.
Dialogue: 0,2:21:54.50,2:22:01.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So that's what I see. That's what we have used science for the process.
Dialogue: 0,2:22:01.70,2:22:06.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Science for me is two things. It's the body of knowledge--the atomic number of rubidium.
Dialogue: 0,2:22:06.51,2:22:10.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And it's the process--the means by which we make these discoveries.
Dialogue: 0,2:22:10.90,2:22:18.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So for me that's not really that connected with your belief in a spiritual being or a higher power.
Dialogue: 0,2:22:18.58,2:22:28.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If you reconcile those two. Scientists, the head of the National Institutes of Health is a devout Christian.
Dialogue: 0,2:22:28.63,2:22:32.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There are billions of people in the world who are devoutly religious.
Dialogue: 0,2:22:32.90,2:22:36.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They have to be compatible because those same people embrace science.
Dialogue: 0,2:22:36.26,2:22:41.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The exception is you, Mr. Ham. That's the problem for me.
Dialogue: 0,2:22:41.13,2:22:50.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You want us to take your word for what's written in this ancient text to be more compelling than what we see around us.
Dialogue: 0,2:22:50.30,2:22:55.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The evidence for a higher power and spirituality is, for me, separate.
Dialogue: 0,2:22:55.63,2:23:01.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I encourage you to take the next minute and address this problem of the fossils, this problem of the ice layers,
Dialogue: 0,2:23:01.30,2:23:06.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,this problem of the ancient trees, this problem of the ark. I mean really address it.
Dialogue: 0,2:23:06.57,2:23:13.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so then we could move forward. But right now, I see no incompatibility between religions and science.
Dialogue: 0,2:23:13.86,2:23:15.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Moderator: That's time. Mr. Ham, response?
Dialogue: 0,2:23:15.60,2:23:18.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Mr. Ham: Yeah, I actually want to take a minute to address the question.
Dialogue: 0,2:23:18.63,2:23:23.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Let me just say this, my answer would be God is necessary for science.
Dialogue: 0,2:23:23.30,2:23:27.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In fact, you know you talked about cell phones. Yeah, I have a cell phone. I love technology.
Dialogue: 0,2:23:27.33,2:23:32.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We love technology here at Answers in Genesis. And, I have e-mail, probably had millions of them
Dialogue: 0,2:23:32.90,2:23:38.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,while I've been speaking up here. And, satellites and what you said about the information we get,
Dialogue: 0,2:23:38.60,2:23:43.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I agree with all that. See, they're the things that can be done in the present.
Dialogue: 0,2:23:43.33,2:23:51.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And that's just like I showed you. Dr. Stuart Burgess who invented that gear set for the satellite, creationists can be great scientists.
Dialogue: 0,2:23:51.34,2:23:55.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But, see, I say God is necessary because you have to assume the laws of logic. You have to assume the laws of nature.
Dialogue: 0,2:23:55.67,2:24:00.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You have to assume the uniformity in nature. And that is the question I had for you.
Dialogue: 0,2:24:00.00,2:24:04.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Where does that come from if the universe is here by natural processes.
Dialogue: 0,2:24:04.73,2:24:09.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And, Christianity and science, the Bible and science, go hand in hand.
Dialogue: 0,2:24:09.50,2:24:14.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We love science. But again, you've got to understand. Inventing things, that's very different
Dialogue: 0,2:24:14.03,2:24:17.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,than talking about our origins. Two very different things.
Dialogue: 0,2:24:17.33,2:24:22.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Moderator: Mr. Ham, a new question. Do you believe the entire Bible is to be taken literally?
Dialogue: 0,2:24:22.03,2:24:26.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,For example, should people who touch pigs' skin, I think it says here, be stoned?
Dialogue: 0,2:24:26.33,2:24:30.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Can men marry multiple women?
Dialogue: 0,2:24:30.23,2:24:36.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Mr. Ham: Do I believe the entire Bible should be taken literally? Remember in my opening address
Dialogue: 0,2:24:36.13,2:24:41.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I said we have to define our terms. So, when people ask that question, say literally, I have to know
Dialogue: 0,2:24:41.33,2:24:44.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,what that person meant by literally. Now, I would say this.
Dialogue: 0,2:24:44.73,2:24:51.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If you say "naturally" and that's what you mean by "literally", I would say, yes, I take the Bible "naturally".
Dialogue: 0,2:24:51.20,2:24:55.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What do I mean by that? Well, if it's history, as Genesis is,
Dialogue: 0,2:24:55.07,2:24:57.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it's written as typical historical narrative, you take it as history.
Dialogue: 0,2:24:57.96,2:25:03.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If it's poetry, as we find in the Psalms, then you take it as poetry.
Dialogue: 0,2:25:03.43,2:25:09.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It doesn't mean it doesn't teach truth, but it's not a cosmological account in the sense that Genesis is.
Dialogue: 0,2:25:09.77,2:25:17.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There's prophecy in the Bible and there's literature in the Bible concerning future events and so on.
Dialogue: 0,2:25:17.06,2:25:22.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, if you take it as written, naturally, according to typal literature, and you let it speak to you
Dialogue: 0,2:25:22.60,2:25:27.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in that way, that's how I take the Bible. It's God's revelation to man. He used different people.
Dialogue: 0,2:25:27.83,2:25:32.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The Bible says that all scripture's inspired by God. So God moved people by his spirit
Dialogue: 0,2:25:32.07,2:25:36.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to write his words. And, also, there's a lot of misunderstanding in regard to scripture
Dialogue: 0,2:25:36.66,2:25:42.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and in regard to the Israelites. I mean we have laws in our civil government here in America
Dialogue: 0,2:25:42.07,2:25:45.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that the government sets. Well there were certain laws for Israel. And, you know, some people
Dialogue: 0,2:25:45.47,2:25:49.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,take all that out of context. And then they try to impose it on us today as Christians
Dialogue: 0,2:25:49.07,2:25:53.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and say, you should be obeying those laws. It's a misunderstanding of the Old Testament.
Dialogue: 0,2:25:53.57,2:25:56.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's a misunderstanding of the New Testament.
Dialogue: 0,2:25:56.63,2:26:01.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And, you know, again, it's important to take the Bible as a whole. Interpreting scripture as scripture.
Dialogue: 0,2:26:01.83,2:26:06.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If it really is the word of God, there's not going to be any contradiction. Which there's not.
Dialogue: 0,2:26:06.50,2:26:10.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And by the way, when men were married to multiple women, there were lots of problems.
Dialogue: 0,2:26:10.50,2:26:15.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Laughter) ...and the Bible condemns that for what it is, and the Bible is very clear.
Dialogue: 0,2:26:15.10,2:26:19.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You know the Bible is a real book. There were people who did things that were not in accord with scripture,
Dialogue: 0,2:26:19.17,2:26:23.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and it records this for us. It helps you understand it's a real book. But marriage was one man for
Dialogue: 0,2:26:23.20,2:26:27.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,one woman. Jesus reiterated that in Matthew 19, as I had in my talk.
Dialogue: 0,2:26:27.60,2:26:31.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so those that did marry multiple women were wrong.
Dialogue: 0,2:26:31.30,2:26:34.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Moderator: Time there. Mr. Nye, a response?
Dialogue: 0,2:26:34.10,2:26:37.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Mr. Nye: So it sounds to me, just listening to you over the last two minutes,
Dialogue: 0,2:26:37.27,2:26:42.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that there's certain parts of this document of the Bible that you embrace literally
Dialogue: 0,2:26:42.13,2:26:46.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and other parts you consider poetry. So it sounds to me, in those last two minutes,
Dialogue: 0,2:26:46.83,2:26:59.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,like you're going to take what you like, interpret literally, and other passages you're gonna interpret as poetic or descriptions of human events.
Dialogue: 0,2:26:59.80,2:27:08.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,All that aside, I'll just say scientifically, or as a reasonable man, it doesn't seem possible that
Dialogue: 0,2:27:08.100,2:27:15.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,all these things that contradict your literal interpretation of those first few passages,
Dialogue: 0,2:27:15.60,2:27:22.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,all those things that contradict that, I find unsettling, when you want me to embrace the rest of it
Dialogue: 0,2:27:22.33,2:27:27.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as literal. Now, I, as I say, am not a theologian. But we started this debate,
Dialogue: 0,2:27:27.43,2:27:33.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Is Ken Ham's creation model viable? Does it hold water? Can it fly? Does it describe anything?
Dialogue: 0,2:27:33.40,2:27:36.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I'm still looking for an answer.
Dialogue: 0,2:27:36.30,2:27:38.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Moderator: And time on that. Mr. Nye, here's a new question.
Dialogue: 0,2:27:38.70,2:27:44.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I believe this was miswritten here because they've repeated a word. But I think I know what they were
Dialogue: 0,2:27:44.59,2:27:54.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,trying to ask. Have you ever believed that evolution was accomplished through way of a higher power?
Dialogue: 0,2:27:54.36,2:27:58.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think that's what they're trying to ask here. This is the intelligent design question, I think.
Dialogue: 0,2:27:58.30,2:28:03.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If so, why or why not? Why could not the evolutionary process be accomplished in this way?
Dialogue: 0,2:28:03.68,2:28:08.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Mr. Nye: I think you may have changed the question just a little but, no, it's all good.
Dialogue: 0,2:28:08.85,2:28:13.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Moderator: The word for word question is, have you ever believed that evolution partook through way of evolution?
Dialogue: 0,2:28:13.40,2:28:18.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(talking at the same time) Mr. Nye: Let me introduce these ideas for Mr. Ham to comment.
Dialogue: 0,2:28:18.57,2:28:27.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The idea that there's a higher power that has driven the course of the events in the universe
Dialogue: 0,2:28:27.73,2:28:35.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and our own existence, is one that you can not prove or disprove. And this gets into this expression, "agnostic."
Dialogue: 0,2:28:35.03,2:28:38.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You can't know. I'll grant you that.
Dialogue: 0,2:28:38.97,2:28:45.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,When it comes to intelligent design, which is, if I understand your interpretation of the question,
Dialogue: 0,2:28:45.23,2:28:52.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,intelligent design has a fundamental misunderstanding of the nature of nature.
Dialogue: 0,2:28:52.67,2:28:58.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This is to say, the old expression is if you were to find a watch in the field,
Dialogue: 0,2:28:58.20,2:29:03.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and you pick it up, you would realize that it was created by somebody who was thinking ahead,
Dialogue: 0,2:29:03.80,2:29:08.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,somebody with an organization chart, somebody at the top. And you'd order screws from screw manufacturers
Dialogue: 0,2:29:08.67,2:29:12.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and springs from spring manufacturers and glass crystals from crystal manufacturers.
Dialogue: 0,2:29:12.57,2:29:15.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But that's not how nature works.
Dialogue: 0,2:29:15.63,2:29:22.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This is the fundamental insight in the explanation for living things that is provided by evolution.
Dialogue: 0,2:29:22.16,2:29:28.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Evolution is a process that adds complexity through natural selection, this is to say,
Dialogue: 0,2:29:28.30,2:29:33.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,nature has its mediocre designs eaten by its good designs.
Dialogue: 0,2:29:33.20,2:29:41.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so, the perception that there is a designer that created all this, is not necessarily true,
Dialogue: 0,2:29:41.57,2:29:48.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because we have an explanation that is far more compelling and provides predictions, and things are repeatable.
Dialogue: 0,2:29:48.17,2:29:53.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'm sure, Mr. Ham here, at the facility, you have an organization chart.
Dialogue: 0,2:29:53.86,2:29:58.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I imagine you're at the top, and it's a top-down structure.
Dialogue: 0,2:29:58.46,2:30:03.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Nature is not that way. Nature is bottom-up.
Dialogue: 0,2:30:03.33,2:30:10.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This is the discovery. Things merge up. Whatever makes it, keeps going. Whatever doesn't make it, falls away.
Dialogue: 0,2:30:10.23,2:30:17.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And this is compelling and wonderful and fills me with joy and is inconsistent with a top-down view.
Dialogue: 0,2:30:17.20,2:30:18.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Moderator: And that's time. Mr. Ham.
Dialogue: 0,2:30:18.93,2:30:27.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Ken Ham: What Bill Nye needs to do for me is to show me an example of something, some new function
Dialogue: 0,2:30:27.73,2:30:32.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that arose that was not previously possible from the genetic information that was there.
Dialogue: 0,2:30:32.53,2:30:36.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I would claim, and challenge you, that there is no such example that you can give.
Dialogue: 0,2:30:36.37,2:30:42.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That's why I brought up the example in my presentation of Lensky's experiments in regard to e coli.
Dialogue: 0,2:30:42.82,2:30:47.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And there were some that seemed to develop the ability to exist on citrate,
Dialogue: 0,2:30:47.63,2:30:51.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but as Dr. Fabich said, from looking at his research,
Dialogue: 0,2:30:51.20,2:30:53.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,he's found that that information was already there.
Dialogue: 0,2:30:53.40,2:31:01.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's just a gene that switched on and off. And so, there is no example, because information that's there,
Dialogue: 0,2:31:01.26,2:31:09.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the genetic information of different animals, plants and so on, there's no new function that can be added.
Dialogue: 0,2:31:09.10,2:31:12.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Certainly, great variation within a kind, and that's what we look at.
Dialogue: 0,2:31:12.10,2:31:16.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But you'd have to show an example of brand-new function that never previously was possible.
Dialogue: 0,2:31:16.26,2:31:20.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There is no such example that you can give anywhere in the world.
Dialogue: 0,2:31:20.46,2:31:24.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Moderator: Uh, fresh question here. Mr. Ham, name one institution, business, or organization,
Dialogue: 0,2:31:24.90,2:31:28.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,other than a church, amusement park, or the Creation Museum
Dialogue: 0,2:31:28.10,2:31:31.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that is using any aspect of creationism to produce its product.
Dialogue: 0,2:31:31.95,2:31:40.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Ken Ham: Any scientist out there, Christian or non-Christian, that is involved in
Dialogue: 0,2:31:40.17,2:31:46.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,inventing things, involved in scientific method, is using creation.
Dialogue: 0,2:31:46.43,2:31:50.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They are, because they are borrowing from a Christian worldview.
Dialogue: 0,2:31:50.56,2:31:52.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They are using the laws of logic. I keep emphasizing that.
Dialogue: 0,2:31:52.87,2:31:58.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I want Bill to tell me, in a view of the universe, as a result of natural processes,
Dialogue: 0,2:31:58.63,2:32:03.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,explain where the laws of logic came from. Why should we trust the laws of nature?
Dialogue: 0,2:32:03.80,2:32:07.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I mean, are they going to be the same tomorrow as they were yesterday?
Dialogue: 0,2:32:07.36,2:32:14.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In fact, some of the greatest scientists that ever lived: Isaac Newton, James Clerk Maxwell, Michael Faraday were creationists.
Dialogue: 0,2:32:14.58,2:32:18.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And as one of them said, you know, he's thinking God's thoughts after Him.
Dialogue: 0,2:32:18.27,2:32:24.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And that's really, modern science came out of that thinking, that we can do experiments today,
Dialogue: 0,2:32:24.27,2:32:29.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and we can do the same tomorrow. And we can trust the laws of logic. We can trust the laws of nature.
Dialogue: 0,2:32:29.03,2:32:34.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And if we don't teach our children correctly about this, they're NOT going to be innovative.
Dialogue: 0,2:32:34.43,2:32:42.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And they're not going to be able to come up with inventions to advance in our culture.
Dialogue: 0,2:32:42.30,2:32:47.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so, I think the person was trying to get out that, see, you know,
Dialogue: 0,2:32:47.83,2:32:52.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,there are lots of secularists out there doing work. And they don't believe in creation.
Dialogue: 0,2:32:52.30,2:32:57.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And they come up with great inventions, yeah. But my point is, they are borrowing from the Christian worldview to do so.
Dialogue: 0,2:32:57.60,2:33:01.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And as you saw from the video quotes I gave, people like Andrew Fabich
Dialogue: 0,2:33:01.90,2:33:04.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and also Dr. Faulkner have published in the secular journals.
Dialogue: 0,2:33:04.80,2:33:07.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There's lots of creationists out there who publish.
Dialogue: 0,2:33:07.80,2:33:15.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,People mightn't know that they're creationists because the topic doesn't specifically pertain to creation vs. evolution.
Dialogue: 0,2:33:15.20,2:33:17.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But there's lots of them out there. In fact, go to our website.
Dialogue: 0,2:33:17.93,2:33:21.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There's a whole list there of scientists who are creationists,
Dialogue: 0,2:33:21.40,2:33:26.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who are out there doing great work in this world and helping to advance technology.
Dialogue: 0,2:33:26.53,2:33:28.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Moderator: Mr. Nye
Dialogue: 0,2:33:28.70,2:33:35.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Bill Nye: There's a reason that I don't accept your Ken Ham model of creation.
Dialogue: 0,2:33:35.00,2:33:39.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Is that it has no predictive quality as you had touched on,
Dialogue: 0,2:33:39.73,2:33:42.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and something that I've always found troubling.
Dialogue: 0,2:33:42.06,2:33:47.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It sounds as though and next time around you can correct me.
Dialogue: 0,2:33:47.77,2:33:56.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It sounds as though you believe your world view, which is a literal interpretation of most parts of the Bible, is correct.
Dialogue: 0,2:33:56.07,2:34:00.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Well, what became of all those people who never heard of it?
Dialogue: 0,2:34:00.33,2:34:04.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Never heard of you? What became of all those people in Asia?
Dialogue: 0,2:34:04.57,2:34:08.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What became of all those first nations people in North America?
Dialogue: 0,2:34:08.63,2:34:14.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Were they condemned and doomed? I mean, I don't know how much time you've spent talking to strangers,
Dialogue: 0,2:34:14.27,2:34:23.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but they're not sanguine about that. To have you tell them that they are inherently lost or misguided.
Dialogue: 0,2:34:23.36,2:34:27.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's very troubling. And you say there are no examples in nature.
Dialogue: 0,2:34:27.93,2:34:32.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There are countless examples of how the process of science makes predictions.
Dialogue: 0,2:34:32.93,2:34:37.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Moderator: Mr. Nye, since evolution teaches that man is evolving and growing smarter over time,
Dialogue: 0,2:34:37.53,2:34:42.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,how can you explain the numerous evidences of man's high intelligence in the past?
Dialogue: 0,2:34:42.78,2:34:47.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Bill Nye: Hang on, there's no evidence that man or humans are getting smarter.
Dialogue: 0,2:34:47.73,2:34:56.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,No, especially if you ever met my old boss. Heh, heh, heh. (laughter)
Dialogue: 0,2:34:56.46,2:35:05.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,No, it's that what happens in evolution. And there's, it's a British word that was used in the middle 1800's.
Dialogue: 0,2:35:05.63,2:35:13.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's survival of the fittest. And this usage, it doesn't mean the most push-ups or the highest scores on standardized tests.
Dialogue: 0,2:35:13.76,2:35:22.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It means that those that "fit in" the best. Our intellect, such as it is, has enabled us to dominate the world.
Dialogue: 0,2:35:22.33,2:35:26.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I mean, the evidence of humans is everywhere.
Dialogue: 0,2:35:26.09,2:35:30.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,James Cameron just made another trip to the bottom of the ocean, in the deepest part of the ocean,
Dialogue: 0,2:35:30.38,2:35:35.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the first time since 1960. And when they made the first trip, they found a beer can.
Dialogue: 0,2:35:35.00,2:35:43.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Humans are everywhere. And so, it is our capacity to reason that has taken us to where we are now.
Dialogue: 0,2:35:43.00,2:35:49.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If a germ shows up, as it did, for example, in World War I, where more people were killed by the flu
Dialogue: 0,2:35:49.87,2:35:52.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,than were killed by the combatants in World War I.
Dialogue: 0,2:35:52.25,2:35:58.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That is a troubling and remarkable fact. If the right germ shows up, we'll be taken out.
Dialogue: 0,2:35:58.77,2:36:04.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We'll be eliminated. Being smarter is not a necessary consequence of evolution.
Dialogue: 0,2:36:04.24,2:36:10.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So far, it seems to be the way things are going because of the remarkable advantage it gives to us.
Dialogue: 0,2:36:10.67,2:36:15.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We can control our environment and even change it, as we are doing today, apparently by accident.
Dialogue: 0,2:36:15.03,2:36:21.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, everybody, just take a little while and grasp this fundamental idea.
Dialogue: 0,2:36:21.66,2:36:28.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's how you "fit in" with nature around you. So, as the world changed, as it did, for example, the ancient dinosaurs,
Dialogue: 0,2:36:28.83,2:36:34.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they were "taken out" by a worldwide fireball, apparently caused by an impacter.
Dialogue: 0,2:36:34.83,2:36:41.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That's the best theory we have. And we are the result of people, of organisms that lived through that catastrophe.
Dialogue: 0,2:36:41.57,2:36:46.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's not necessarily smarter. It's how you "fit in" with your environment.
Dialogue: 0,2:36:46.93,2:36:48.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Moderator: Mr. Ham, a response?
Dialogue: 0,2:36:48.94,2:36:53.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Ken Ham: I remember at university, one of my professors was very excited to give us some evidence for evolution.
Dialogue: 0,2:36:53.93,2:36:59.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,He said, "Look at this. Here's an example. These fish have evolved the ability not to see."
Dialogue: 0,2:36:59.70,2:37:02.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And, he was going to give an example of blind cave fish.
Dialogue: 0,2:37:02.51,2:37:08.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And he said, "See, in this cave, they're evolving, because now the ones that are living there, their ancestors had eyes.
Dialogue: 0,2:37:08.68,2:37:12.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Now these ones are blind." And I remember, I was talking to my professor, "But wait a minute!
Dialogue: 0,2:37:12.67,2:37:17.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Now they can't do something that they could do before." Yeah, they might have an advantage in this sense.
Dialogue: 0,2:37:17.72,2:37:22.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In a situation that's dark like that, those with eyes might have got diseases and died out.
Dialogue: 0,2:37:22.30,2:37:25.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Those that had mutations for no eyes are the ones that survived.
Dialogue: 0,2:37:25.44,2:37:28.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's not survival of the fittest. It's survival of those who survive.
Dialogue: 0,2:37:28.87,2:37:33.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And it's survival of those that have the information in their circumstance to survive,
Dialogue: 0,2:37:33.77,2:37:37.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but you're not getting new information. You're not getting new function.
Dialogue: 0,2:37:37.76,2:37:44.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There's no example of that at all. So, we need to correctly understand these things.
Dialogue: 0,2:37:44.03,2:37:48.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Moderator: Alright. Um, we're down to our final question here, which I'll give to both of you.
Dialogue: 0,2:37:48.62,2:37:51.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And in the interest of fairness here, because it is a question to the both of you,
Dialogue: 0,2:37:51.100,2:37:55.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,let's give each man two minutes on this if we can, please.
Dialogue: 0,2:37:55.07,2:37:59.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And also, in the interest of you having started first, Mr. Ham, I will have you start first here.
Dialogue: 0,2:37:59.88,2:38:02.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You'll have the first word. Mr. Nye will have the last word.
Dialogue: 0,2:38:02.30,2:38:10.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The question is: what is the one thing, more than anything else, upon which you base your belief?
Dialogue: 0,2:38:10.13,2:38:14.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Mr. Ham: What is the one thing upon anything else which I base my belief?
Dialogue: 0,2:38:14.33,2:38:21.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Well, again, to summarize the things that I've been saying, there is a book called the Bible.
Dialogue: 0,2:38:21.47,2:38:24.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's a very unique book. It's very different to any other book out there.
Dialogue: 0,2:38:24.59,2:38:29.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In fact, I don't know of any other religion that has a book that starts off by
Dialogue: 0,2:38:29.60,2:38:33.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,telling you that there's an infinite God, and talks about the origin of the universe,
Dialogue: 0,2:38:33.100,2:38:36.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the origin of matter, and the origin of light, and the origin of darkness,
Dialogue: 0,2:38:36.60,2:38:41.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the origin of day and night, and the origin of the earth, and the origin of dry land,
Dialogue: 0,2:38:41.59,2:38:45.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the origin of plants, and the origin of the sun, moon and stars, the origin of sea creatures,
Dialogue: 0,2:38:45.40,2:38:48.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the origin of flying creatures, the origin of land creatures, the origin of man,
Dialogue: 0,2:38:48.83,2:38:52.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the origin of woman, the origin of death, the origin of sin, the origin of marriage,
Dialogue: 0,2:38:52.70,2:38:58.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the origin of different languages, the origin of clothing, the origin of nations,
Dialogue: 0,2:38:58.20,2:39:01.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I mean it's a very, very specific book.
Dialogue: 0,2:39:01.00,2:39:06.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And it gives us an account of a global flood and the history and the tower of Babel,
Dialogue: 0,2:39:06.51,2:39:10.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and if that history is true, then what about the rest of the book?
Dialogue: 0,2:39:10.53,2:39:15.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Well, that history also says man is a sinner and it says that man is separated from God.
Dialogue: 0,2:39:15.60,2:39:20.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And it gives us a message, that we call the gospel, the message of salvation, that God's
Dialogue: 0,2:39:20.76,2:39:23.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,son stepped in history to die on the cross, to be raised from the dead,
Dialogue: 0,2:39:23.83,2:39:25.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and offers a free gift of salvation.
Dialogue: 0,2:39:25.50,2:39:29.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Because the history is true, that's why the message based on history is true.
Dialogue: 0,2:39:29.27,2:39:33.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I actually went through some predictions and listed others, and there's a lot more that you can look at,
Dialogue: 0,2:39:33.73,2:39:37.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and you can go and test it for yourself. If this book really is true,
Dialogue: 0,2:39:37.07,2:39:41.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it is so specific, it should explain the world, it should make sense of what we see.
Dialogue: 0,2:39:41.67,2:39:43.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The flood. Yeah, we have fossils all over the world.
Dialogue: 0,2:39:43.67,2:39:46.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The tower of Babel, yeah, different people groups, different languages,
Dialogue: 0,2:39:46.43,2:39:50.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they have flood legends very similar to the Bible. Creation legends similar to the Bible.
Dialogue: 0,2:39:50.63,2:39:53.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There's so much you can look at, and prophesy and so on.
Dialogue: 0,2:39:53.60,2:39:57.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Most of all, as I said to you, the Bible says, if you come to God, believing that he is,
Dialogue: 0,2:39:57.25,2:40:00.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,he'll reveal himself to you. You will know. If you search after truth,
Dialogue: 0,2:40:00.05,2:40:03.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you really want God to show you, as you would search after silver and gold,
Dialogue: 0,2:40:03.79,2:40:07.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,he will show you. He will reveal himself to you.
Dialogue: 0,2:40:07.47,2:40:08.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Moderator: Mr. Nye?
Dialogue: 0,2:40:08.91,2:40:10.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Mr. Nye: Would you repeat the question?
Dialogue: 0,2:40:10.53,2:40:17.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Moderator: The question is: What is the one thing, more than anything else, upon which you base your belief?
Dialogue: 0,2:40:17.62,2:40:21.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Mr. Nye: As my old professor Carl Sagan said so often,
Dialogue: 0,2:40:21.05,2:40:30.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,when you're in love, you want to tell the world. And I base my beliefs on the information
Dialogue: 0,2:40:30.10,2:40:33.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the process that we call science.
Dialogue: 0,2:40:33.76,2:40:39.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It fills me with joy to make discoveries every day of things I'd never seen before.
Dialogue: 0,2:40:39.37,2:40:44.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It fills me with joy to know that we can pursue these answers.
Dialogue: 0,2:40:44.70,2:40:51.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It is a wonderful and astonishing thing to me, that we are, you and I,
Dialogue: 0,2:40:51.25,2:40:58.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,are somehow, at least one of the ways that the universe knows itself.
Dialogue: 0,2:40:58.30,2:41:03.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You and I are a product of the universe. It's astonishing. I admit, I see your faces.
Dialogue: 0,2:41:03.23,2:41:08.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That we have come to be because of the universe's existence.
Dialogue: 0,2:41:08.87,2:41:13.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And we are driven to pursue that. To find out where we came from.
Dialogue: 0,2:41:13.73,2:41:16.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And the second question we all want to know:
Dialogue: 0,2:41:16.23,2:41:22.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Are we alone? Are we alone in the universe? And these questions are deep within us,
Dialogue: 0,2:41:22.05,2:41:30.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and they drive us. So the process of science, the way we know nature is the most compelling thing to me.
Dialogue: 0,2:41:30.71,2:41:37.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I just want to close by reminding everybody what's at stake here.
Dialogue: 0,2:41:37.00,2:41:44.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If we abandon all that we've learned, our ancestors, what they've learned about nature and our place in it,
Dialogue: 0,2:41:44.33,2:41:48.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,if we abandon the process by which we know it,
Dialogue: 0,2:41:48.23,2:41:52.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,if we eschew, if we let go of everything that people have learned before us,
Dialogue: 0,2:41:52.87,2:41:57.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,if we stop driving forward, stop looking for the next answer to the next question,
Dialogue: 0,2:41:57.70,2:42:03.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we, in the United States, will be outcompeted by other countries, other economies.
Dialogue: 0,2:42:03.76,2:42:08.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Now, that would be okay, I guess, but I was born here. I'm a patriot.
Dialogue: 0,2:42:08.13,2:42:12.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So we have to embrace science education. To the voters and taxpayers that are watching,
Dialogue: 0,2:42:12.72,2:42:19.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,please keep that in mind. We have to keep science education in science and science classes. Thank you.
Dialogue: 0,2:42:19.96,2:42:26.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Moderator: One tiny bit of important housekeeping for everyone here, the county is now under a level two snow emergency.
Dialogue: 0,2:42:26.30,2:42:31.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Drive home carefully. You'll have a lot to talk about, but drive carefully.
Dialogue: 0,2:42:31.33,2:42:37.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This debate will be archived at debatelive.org. That's debatelive.org, one word.
Dialogue: 0,2:42:37.77,2:42:43.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It will be found at that site for several days. You can encourage friends and family to watch and take it over.
Dialogue: 0,2:42:43.44,2:42:54.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Thanks so much to Mr. Nye and to Mr. Ham (Loud applause) for an excellent discussion.
Dialogue: 0,2:42:54.16,2:42:58.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'm Tom Foreman, thank you, good night from Petersburg, Kentucky and the Creation Museum.
Dialogue: 0,2:42:58.100,2:43:15.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(applause)
Dialogue: 0,2:43:15.53,2:43:50.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(orchestral music)
Dialogue: 0,2:43:50.67,2:44:18.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,ORDER TONIGHT! Here or online
Dialogue: 0,2:44:18.29,2:45:32.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(silence)