1
00:00:05,609 --> 00:00:10,026
[Glaser] When I was a kid,
I discovered

2
00:00:10,026 --> 00:00:15,323
that I had great prestige
in the neighborhood.

3
00:00:15,323 --> 00:00:20,236
My friends could ask me
to draw anything,

4
00:00:20,236 --> 00:00:24,230
which turned out to be,
almost in all cases, naked ladies.

5
00:00:24,230 --> 00:00:26,979
They would describe
the exact position

6
00:00:26,979 --> 00:00:31,910
and physical characteristics,
and I could do that on request.

7
00:00:33,779 --> 00:00:37,511
Sort of a short transition
between that beginning

8
00:00:39,241 --> 00:00:42,604
and what eventually
became my career.

9
00:00:42,604 --> 00:00:47,177
[♪ piano jazz ♪]

10
00:01:20,067 --> 00:01:24,811
Well, people ask me why I chose design,
like most American artists.

11
00:01:24,811 --> 00:01:29,152
When I was a kid,
I copied comic strips, Walt Disney,

12
00:01:29,152 --> 00:01:31,663
and then I went to the
High School of Music & Art,

13
00:01:31,663 --> 00:01:34,822
which gave me a lot of options
about what I should be doing,

14
00:01:34,822 --> 00:01:37,560
where I was
introduced to the idea

15
00:01:37,560 --> 00:01:40,122
of what was then
called commercial art,

16
00:01:40,122 --> 00:01:44,572
which was making things
to sell for money.

17
00:01:45,742 --> 00:01:47,414
At the same time,
or parallel to that,

18
00:01:47,414 --> 00:01:49,321
was this other idea
of fine art,

19
00:01:49,321 --> 00:01:52,349
which was about
some other kind of value.

20
00:01:54,229 --> 00:01:57,245
But I never could get
the idea through my head

21
00:01:57,245 --> 00:02:00,720
that I could make a living
making paintings

22
00:02:00,720 --> 00:02:02,930
that somebody would buy
and put in their house.

23
00:02:02,930 --> 00:02:09,293
It just seems so weird to me
and so inappropriate for me.

24
00:02:09,293 --> 00:02:11,615
I wanted to do work
that was public.

25
00:02:11,615 --> 00:02:13,974
I wanted to do work
that was on the street.

26
00:02:13,974 --> 00:02:16,098
I wanted to do work
that people saw.

27
00:02:16,098 --> 00:02:20,216
At that point, I had already
internalized this idea

28
00:02:20,216 --> 00:02:23,345
that it didn't matter
whether I was called an artist

29
00:02:23,345 --> 00:02:27,745
or a designer or an illustrator
or whatever else it was.

30
00:02:27,745 --> 00:02:31,307
The core value was always
the act of making things,

31
00:02:31,307 --> 00:02:35,092
and the transformation of an idea
that you hold in your mind,

32
00:02:35,092 --> 00:02:38,090
that becomes
real or material.

33
00:02:38,090 --> 00:02:42,136
That to me, still, is the glory
of any creative activity.

34
00:02:42,136 --> 00:02:49,687
[♪]

35
00:02:49,687 --> 00:02:53,593
[Caplan] As the creator of
"I Love New York"

36
00:02:53,593 --> 00:02:57,009
and the moving sequel
that followed 9/11,

37
00:02:57,009 --> 00:03:00,806
he may be the best-known
graphic designer in the world.

38
00:03:00,806 --> 00:03:03,667
But they don't
begin to even hint

39
00:03:03,667 --> 00:03:09,238
at the impact and significance
of Milton Glaser's work.

40
00:03:09,238 --> 00:03:13,747
He's taken the gifts
he had to start with

41
00:03:13,747 --> 00:03:20,398
and developed them
along a dazzling variety of lines

42
00:03:20,398 --> 00:03:25,578
that have influenced every
serious designer I can think of,

43
00:03:25,578 --> 00:03:30,976
and that have materially affected
the way we get information,

44
00:03:30,976 --> 00:03:36,099
the way we buy things,
and in fact, the things that we buy.

45
00:03:36,099 --> 00:03:40,569
I've known Milton about 30 years,
and I remember being struck

46
00:03:40,569 --> 00:03:49,105
by the mixture of talent,
play, and intelligence.

47
00:03:49,105 --> 00:03:53,658
[♪]

48
00:04:14,590 --> 00:04:16,341
[Glaser]
I love doing poses.

49
00:04:16,341 --> 00:04:18,937
In fact, all designers
love doing poses.

50
00:04:18,937 --> 00:04:22,488
Most of the time,
you're working on 5½ × 8½,

51
00:04:22,488 --> 00:04:25,968
and suddenly you have
this enormous landscape,

52
00:04:25,968 --> 00:04:29,091
which just gives you a different kind
of opportunity and presence.

53
00:04:29,091 --> 00:04:35,692
[♪]

54
00:04:43,068 --> 00:04:45,482
I love music
in all forms,

55
00:04:45,482 --> 00:04:50,014
so I'm very responsive
to music experientially.

56
00:04:50,014 --> 00:04:54,090
I loved to dance when my feet
would still obey my brain

57
00:04:54,090 --> 00:04:56,252
and I think that
idea of movement

58
00:04:56,252 --> 00:04:59,015
and a rhythmic response
has something to do with

59
00:04:59,015 --> 00:05:01,682
the way you draw
and the way you make things.

60
00:05:01,682 --> 00:05:04,240
I always tend to think
that the affinities

61
00:05:04,240 --> 00:05:06,997
between all these forms
are very constant.

62
00:05:06,997 --> 00:05:10,253
And also, I would like to see
whether it's possible to create

63
00:05:10,253 --> 00:05:14,252
the same kind of emotional response
in graphics that music has.

64
00:05:17,712 --> 00:05:20,734
Caplan: It occurs to me,
that for many people,

65
00:05:20,734 --> 00:05:24,634
this poster is
as much the '60s

66
00:05:24,634 --> 00:05:27,634
as anything they know
about the '60s.

67
00:05:27,634 --> 00:05:29,514
People very often
remember it this way,

68
00:05:29,514 --> 00:05:31,055
whether they were
there or not.

69
00:05:31,055 --> 00:05:33,394
[Maxwell] When you
think of a Dylan poster,

70
00:05:33,394 --> 00:05:35,382
that really speaks
to a generation.

71
00:05:35,382 --> 00:05:37,854
It wasn't his generation,
but he was able to

72
00:05:37,854 --> 00:05:41,597
understand what was happening,
and see what was happening,

73
00:05:41,597 --> 00:05:44,426
and make work about--
in response to what was happening.

74
00:05:44,426 --> 00:05:47,607
That's very unusual,
and I see the same thing in the poster

75
00:05:47,607 --> 00:05:49,815
for Tony Kushner
for <i>Angels in America,</i>

76
00:05:49,815 --> 00:05:55,096
to take the raw pain of a generation
of gay men who are all dying,

77
00:05:55,096 --> 00:05:57,789
and transform it
into a piece of art.

78
00:05:58,539 --> 00:06:02,470
His closeness to our culture,
to our civilization,

79
00:06:02,470 --> 00:06:05,833
really allowed him
to change the design world.

80
00:06:05,833 --> 00:06:09,669
[Heller] His influence
is one of a real star,

81
00:06:09,669 --> 00:06:12,791
and there aren't that many stars
in the design field,

82
00:06:12,791 --> 00:06:15,287
particularly in the
graphic design field.

83
00:06:15,287 --> 00:06:19,317
Designers are-- their work is seen
but they're not necessarily heard.

84
00:06:19,317 --> 00:06:23,117
Because Milton is so articulate,
so <i>damn</i> articulate,

85
00:06:23,117 --> 00:06:27,318
um, his voice is requested
in many places.

86
00:06:27,318 --> 00:06:31,566
So, between the voice,
the work, and the presence,

87
00:06:31,566 --> 00:06:35,337
he's known
in many places all over.

88
00:06:35,337 --> 00:06:39,494
And because the world itself,
the small world,

89
00:06:39,494 --> 00:06:41,208
is so interested
in design,

90
00:06:41,208 --> 00:06:43,615
and design becomes
this kind of Esperanto,

91
00:06:43,615 --> 00:06:46,369
Milton speaks
the Esperanto well.

92
00:06:48,097 --> 00:06:50,787
[♪ saxophone jazz ♪]

93
00:06:50,787 --> 00:06:52,219
[Glaser]
Back in the mid-'70s,

94
00:06:52,219 --> 00:06:57,489
there was a collapse of well-being
and morale in this town.

95
00:06:57,489 --> 00:06:58,931
Nobody wanted
to be here.

96
00:06:58,931 --> 00:07:00,911
[♪]

97
00:07:00,911 --> 00:07:02,859
And the city
and the state

98
00:07:02,859 --> 00:07:06,609
had gotten very apprehensive
about what was going on.

99
00:07:06,609 --> 00:07:10,009
[♪]

100
00:07:10,009 --> 00:07:11,532
A guy was hired
and he said,

101
00:07:11,532 --> 00:07:14,269
"Look, we got a line,
'I love New York,'

102
00:07:14,269 --> 00:07:16,430
"and we need a visual thing
to go with it.

103
00:07:16,430 --> 00:07:17,730
"Can you help us?"

104
00:07:17,730 --> 00:07:19,840
So we did a funny thing
with two lozenges

105
00:07:19,840 --> 00:07:21,239
and it was just
typographical,

106
00:07:21,239 --> 00:07:23,470
and that was the end of the job,
I thought.

107
00:07:23,470 --> 00:07:26,560
And then a day or two later,
I was in a taxi,

108
00:07:26,560 --> 00:07:29,782
and I very often carry
a scrap of paper with me.

109
00:07:29,782 --> 00:07:32,302
I say, you know,
there's a better way to do that:

110
00:07:32,302 --> 00:07:35,269
"I heart N."

111
00:07:35,269 --> 00:07:37,762
Yeah, that would
be better.

112
00:07:37,762 --> 00:07:40,762
[♪]

113
00:07:40,762 --> 00:07:42,541
The world
was waiting for it.

114
00:07:43,581 --> 00:07:49,332
I explain to students in terms
of understanding communication

115
00:07:49,332 --> 00:07:54,879
that the creation of a puzzle
is one of the tools that you have

116
00:07:54,879 --> 00:07:56,728
to make people
understand things.

117
00:07:56,728 --> 00:08:00,942
When they activate the mind
to try to figure something out,

118
00:08:00,942 --> 00:08:04,883
the likelihood is that they will remember
and respond to it more

119
00:08:04,883 --> 00:08:07,194
than if they're
told something directly.

120
00:08:08,874 --> 00:08:11,243
And in the case "I Love New York,"
which seems so simple,

121
00:08:11,243 --> 00:08:14,351
"I" is a word,
complete word in itself,

122
00:08:14,351 --> 00:08:19,463
heart is a symbol for a feeling,
and "N-Y" are initials for a place.

123
00:08:19,463 --> 00:08:26,244
And because of that
simple little trick of activating

124
00:08:26,244 --> 00:08:29,411
the problem-solving
impulse of the brain,

125
00:08:29,411 --> 00:08:30,993
it stuck
in people's mind.

126
00:08:30,993 --> 00:08:32,795
They saw it once;
they remembered it.

127
00:08:35,695 --> 00:08:41,733
I have made nothing on
"I Heart" or "I Love New York."

128
00:08:41,733 --> 00:08:42,898
Ever.

129
00:08:42,898 --> 00:08:47,154
There've been no cash rewards
as a consequence of doing it.

130
00:08:47,154 --> 00:08:52,106
On the other hand, it really
makes me feel very, very proud

131
00:08:52,106 --> 00:08:58,442
to have taken part in that shift
in the city's consciousness

132
00:08:58,442 --> 00:09:05,276
from being indifferent to itself
to realizing we love this place.

133
00:09:05,276 --> 00:09:15,836
[♪]

134
00:09:15,836 --> 00:09:20,176
I've been in this building since 1965,
and one of the reasons I'm here

135
00:09:20,176 --> 00:09:22,897
is because it faces
the schoolyard outside

136
00:09:22,897 --> 00:09:28,527
so every day, at 12:00, you hear
this burst of energetic voices.

137
00:09:30,157 --> 00:09:32,107
I'm always embarrassed
when people come in

138
00:09:32,107 --> 00:09:34,178
because it doesn't
look like a design office

139
00:09:34,178 --> 00:09:37,784
with beautiful furniture
and fancy fixtures.

140
00:09:37,784 --> 00:09:40,289
One thing you'll notice
is that I'm sitting,

141
00:09:40,289 --> 00:09:43,555
along with everybody else,
in this undifferentiated space,

142
00:09:43,555 --> 00:09:45,288
and I realize that,
in part,

143
00:09:45,288 --> 00:09:46,835
that was because
of the way I grew up

144
00:09:46,835 --> 00:09:48,665
in a three-room apartment
in the Bronx.

145
00:09:48,665 --> 00:09:51,846
My father would be sitting at one corner
reading the newspaper,

146
00:09:51,846 --> 00:09:53,975
and my mother would be sitting
in the opposite corner.

147
00:09:53,975 --> 00:09:57,588
She would be
sewing socks and shirts,

148
00:09:57,588 --> 00:10:00,773
and my sister would be sitting
on the couch doing her homework.

149
00:10:00,773 --> 00:10:04,133
Most of the room was occupied
by this enormous dining table

150
00:10:04,133 --> 00:10:06,629
that we only use
once a year at Passover.

151
00:10:06,629 --> 00:10:10,218
And of course, we were all
listening to the radio at the same time.

152
00:10:10,848 --> 00:10:14,245
So ever since then,
I've always worked in a room

153
00:10:14,245 --> 00:10:17,245
surrounded by
everybody else.

154
00:10:17,245 --> 00:10:19,759
I have never written
a memo in my life

155
00:10:19,759 --> 00:10:22,979
because everybody here
can hear everything that occurs.

156
00:10:23,839 --> 00:10:25,519
That saves
a lot of time.

157
00:10:25,519 --> 00:10:29,513
[Bernard] I remember him
on the phone in his office,

158
00:10:29,513 --> 00:10:31,519
and I came down
with the new manuscript

159
00:10:31,519 --> 00:10:33,788
and was waiting
to talk to him.

160
00:10:33,788 --> 00:10:36,853
He just motioned me over,
read the first three paragraphs

161
00:10:36,853 --> 00:10:41,841
while he was talking on the phone,
and made a sketch.

162
00:10:41,841 --> 00:10:45,143
Milton said, "We should always
operate by interruption."

163
00:10:46,253 --> 00:10:48,240
[Glaser] We had about
a hundred people in this building,

164
00:10:48,240 --> 00:10:49,882
if you could imagine
such a thing,

165
00:10:49,882 --> 00:10:53,920
running the magazine
of the first three or four years.

166
00:10:53,920 --> 00:10:57,878
[Bernard] We were on the floor
of this building, the fourth floor.

167
00:10:57,878 --> 00:11:03,110
It has one bathroom and
there were 30 or 40 people up there.

168
00:11:03,110 --> 00:11:04,331
It was amazing.

169
00:11:04,331 --> 00:11:07,492
And everybody was just crammed
trying to get this magazine

170
00:11:07,492 --> 00:11:10,836
from Monday to Thursday
to a printer.

171
00:11:10,836 --> 00:11:14,746
And this is well
before computers,

172
00:11:14,746 --> 00:11:17,492
and we would be
talking on a Wednesday

173
00:11:17,492 --> 00:11:19,321
in which we didn't
have a cover story,

174
00:11:19,321 --> 00:11:21,621
we didn't have this story,
and we didn't have that story,

175
00:11:21,621 --> 00:11:25,475
and Clay is on the phone
yelling at Jimmy Breslin and Tom Wolfe

176
00:11:25,475 --> 00:11:28,104
or anybody else
that was not delivering in time.

177
00:11:28,104 --> 00:11:30,432
Milton was the one
who was able to say,

178
00:11:30,432 --> 00:11:32,262
"Don't worry.
We can do it."

179
00:11:32,262 --> 00:11:35,104
If something fell through,
he'd do the illustration.

180
00:11:35,104 --> 00:11:39,541
He gave me a real education
in the first year at New York.

181
00:11:39,541 --> 00:11:41,443
The editor was Clay Felker.

182
00:11:41,443 --> 00:11:44,264
Milton and Clay had founded
the magazine themselves.

183
00:11:44,264 --> 00:11:45,652
Milton was
the chairman

184
00:11:45,652 --> 00:11:50,522
and the kind of editorial force
in terms of service.

185
00:11:50,522 --> 00:11:52,727
He kind of
reinvented--

186
00:11:52,727 --> 00:11:54,922
if it had been invented
in the first place--

187
00:11:54,922 --> 00:11:56,215
service journalism.

188
00:11:56,855 --> 00:11:59,165
Our mantra was,
"Be on the reader's side."

189
00:11:59,165 --> 00:12:02,265
Not the store owner's side,
not the subject's side.

190
00:12:02,265 --> 00:12:04,538
If we were gonna
do a story on Macy's

191
00:12:04,538 --> 00:12:06,853
or we were gonna do a story
on a little food shop,

192
00:12:06,853 --> 00:12:09,314
it wasn't that we were trying
to promote that food shop.

193
00:12:09,314 --> 00:12:13,745
It was trying to tell the reader
how to cope or to deal with that,

194
00:12:13,745 --> 00:12:15,356
and how to get
the best out of it,

195
00:12:15,356 --> 00:12:19,084
especially in the area
of teaching them how to

196
00:12:19,084 --> 00:12:23,070
or learning with them how to
cope with New York City,

197
00:12:23,070 --> 00:12:27,451
the Pastrami Olympics,
and the Underground Gourmet,

198
00:12:27,451 --> 00:12:28,811
and things like that.

199
00:12:28,811 --> 00:12:32,157
This is one of the first covers
Milton and I worked on together.

200
00:12:32,157 --> 00:12:35,186
You can see it's
October 1968.

201
00:12:35,186 --> 00:12:36,867
The hardest thing
was getting Gloria,

202
00:12:36,867 --> 00:12:40,902
who wrote the story,
to sit in this Nixon box.

203
00:12:42,042 --> 00:12:45,447
And later,
we helped her with the <i>Ms.</i>

204
00:12:46,367 --> 00:12:48,884
There's one thing that,
to this day,

205
00:12:48,884 --> 00:12:51,986
Milton and I were
too stupid to realize then.

206
00:12:51,986 --> 00:12:53,900
Here we have
this magazine

207
00:12:53,900 --> 00:12:57,720
that Gloria created
and we're presenting.

208
00:12:57,720 --> 00:12:59,086
Should've been
a woman's hand

209
00:12:59,086 --> 00:13:03,745
holding this magazine,
and it's not. [chuckling]

210
00:13:03,745 --> 00:13:05,487
[Maxwell] What you had
in <i>New York</i> magazine

211
00:13:05,487 --> 00:13:07,937
was what was happening
in New York City,

212
00:13:07,937 --> 00:13:10,129
what was alive and kicking
in New York City,

213
00:13:10,129 --> 00:13:12,008
and what energy
was flowing through,

214
00:13:12,008 --> 00:13:14,117
and what food
was coming through,

215
00:13:14,117 --> 00:13:15,741
and what dance
was coming through,

216
00:13:15,741 --> 00:13:17,876
and you still see that in
<i>New York</i> magazine and <i>Time Out.</i>

217
00:13:17,876 --> 00:13:21,037
It's a way of thinking
about life where, um,

218
00:13:21,037 --> 00:13:23,127
without a filter,
really.

219
00:13:23,127 --> 00:13:28,047
And you see that in every magazine
in every major city in the world.

220
00:13:28,047 --> 00:13:32,207
But that's really only one--
it's one tiny example

221
00:13:32,207 --> 00:13:34,219
of the way that
he's changed our lives.

222
00:13:35,659 --> 00:13:40,273
And so the building's
had a bit of history connected with it.

223
00:13:40,273 --> 00:13:43,417
It's kind of a bit
of a collective.

224
00:13:43,417 --> 00:13:46,199
Now I have a little business
with Walter Bernard.

225
00:13:46,199 --> 00:13:49,159
We do editorial design
upstairs,

226
00:13:49,159 --> 00:13:50,546
and we've done
many, many magazine

227
00:13:50,546 --> 00:13:53,769
and newspaper projects together,
and we still do.

228
00:13:53,769 --> 00:13:55,420
And Mirko Ilić.

229
00:13:55,420 --> 00:13:59,390
We worked on
<i>The Design of Dissent</i> together.

230
00:13:59,390 --> 00:14:01,979
And while I once had
a very big studio--

231
00:14:01,979 --> 00:14:07,169
when I was doing supermarket work,
we had 45 people here, and--

232
00:14:07,169 --> 00:14:09,828
but it did not
make me happy.

233
00:14:09,828 --> 00:14:14,061
I like the scale of the work
as we now do it.

234
00:14:14,061 --> 00:14:17,390
We have very talented people
at this studio,

235
00:14:17,390 --> 00:14:21,421
the kind of people that you
want to surround yourself with.

236
00:14:23,541 --> 00:14:25,591
We are doing
a new identity

237
00:14:25,591 --> 00:14:27,967
under the pressure
from these young people

238
00:14:27,967 --> 00:14:31,492
who say we are perceived
as being fuddy-duddies.

239
00:14:31,492 --> 00:14:33,117
I'll show you
our old identity,

240
00:14:33,117 --> 00:14:36,839
which was based on
Russian constructivism.

241
00:14:36,839 --> 00:14:40,092
You see that,
contrary to most designs,

242
00:14:40,092 --> 00:14:43,324
that this emphasizes
perhaps the least important thing,

243
00:14:43,324 --> 00:14:45,047
which was the number
on the building,

244
00:14:45,047 --> 00:14:46,923
and obliterates
everything else.

245
00:14:46,923 --> 00:14:49,766
Anyhow, we always liked this
because it was perverse.

246
00:14:49,766 --> 00:14:53,533
So, I did this poster
for a lecture I did,

247
00:14:53,533 --> 00:14:55,413
but I thought there was
something nice

248
00:14:55,413 --> 00:14:59,385
about the symmetry of my name:
Mil-ton Gla-ser.

249
00:14:59,385 --> 00:15:03,037
With Molly, we did a little version
of it just in one color.

250
00:15:03,037 --> 00:15:04,886
I'm interested in work

251
00:15:04,886 --> 00:15:07,544
that doesn't exactly look
as though it was designed.

252
00:15:07,544 --> 00:15:10,006
It just sort of looks
as though it happened.

253
00:15:10,006 --> 00:15:12,794
I always like that idea
that people have to work

254
00:15:12,794 --> 00:15:15,035
to understand
what you're showing them.

255
00:15:16,005 --> 00:15:19,617
Bernard: In 1996,
we were asked to redesign <i>Fortune.</i>

256
00:15:19,617 --> 00:15:22,686
When we finished, John Huey,
the editor, called and said,

257
00:15:22,686 --> 00:15:26,235
"It's time to rethink
the Fortune 500."

258
00:15:26,235 --> 00:15:31,075
So Milton and I literally sat over here
working on 500,

259
00:15:31,075 --> 00:15:33,435
and we were both trying
different things--

260
00:15:33,435 --> 00:15:36,285
Milton on paper
and me on the computer, occasionally.

261
00:15:36,285 --> 00:15:41,245
And I had this thought
of only doing it in type,

262
00:15:41,245 --> 00:15:45,186
writing out
"The Fortune 500."

263
00:15:45,186 --> 00:15:46,867
And while it was
very intriguing,

264
00:15:46,867 --> 00:15:51,267
it didn't have power
from a distance.

265
00:15:51,267 --> 00:15:54,235
And Milton and I
had also been playing

266
00:15:54,235 --> 00:15:57,676
with various ways
of doing the big 5-0-0,

267
00:15:57,676 --> 00:16:00,695
and while some of them
were really nice,

268
00:16:00,695 --> 00:16:03,854
they also simply said 500,
and Milton said,

269
00:16:03,854 --> 00:16:07,997
"Why don't we combine
the big number '5'

270
00:16:07,997 --> 00:16:10,997
and the word
'hundred?' "

271
00:16:10,997 --> 00:16:13,467
Well, it has been used
every year since.

272
00:16:13,467 --> 00:16:16,403
It is now the 10th anniversary
of that cover.

273
00:16:16,403 --> 00:16:19,191
As John Huey says,
it's Eustace Tilley,

274
00:16:19,191 --> 00:16:25,121
and each year it's used, of course,
I divide our fee into the years

275
00:16:25,121 --> 00:16:28,967
and I realize that we got paid
about three bucks. [laughing]

276
00:16:28,967 --> 00:16:32,737
[Glaser] Thinking and making things,
mostly I do in the country.

277
00:16:32,737 --> 00:16:36,806
Assembling and refining things,
we do here.

278
00:16:36,806 --> 00:16:40,690
One is solitary,
and the others needs interaction.

279
00:16:40,690 --> 00:16:42,450
And I love
this part of work.

280
00:16:42,450 --> 00:16:43,415
You have
a partner,

281
00:16:43,415 --> 00:16:46,471
you sort of go for a dance
and you move one way,

282
00:16:46,471 --> 00:16:48,838
and the partner
sort of responds.

283
00:16:48,838 --> 00:16:52,819
It's so much more fun
than doing things by yourself.

284
00:16:54,019 --> 00:16:58,671
We are repackaging something
for a remarkable Brazilian pianist

285
00:16:58,671 --> 00:17:04,056
called João Carlos Martins,
and our idea was

286
00:17:04,056 --> 00:17:08,267
that instead of dealing with Bach
in a conventional sense,

287
00:17:08,267 --> 00:17:11,793
that we would deal with
the idea of Brazil

288
00:17:11,793 --> 00:17:15,968
and the fact that
ethnicity and location

289
00:17:15,968 --> 00:17:18,408
produces a different view
of the music.

290
00:17:19,108 --> 00:17:23,267
What I'm thinking is if we just
put that in the middle horizontally,

291
00:17:23,267 --> 00:17:26,340
and we have a white panel
above and below,

292
00:17:26,340 --> 00:17:29,855
and we just run our typography
in that white panel.

293
00:17:29,855 --> 00:17:31,480
[Maas] Uncropped
in the middle, okay.

294
00:17:31,480 --> 00:17:33,291
[Glaser] Yeah. Make it run
right through the middle.

295
00:17:33,291 --> 00:17:35,141
[Maas] Kind of make it
smaller, all right.

296
00:17:35,141 --> 00:17:38,788
[Glaser] We don't do it as
finishing something according to plan

297
00:17:38,788 --> 00:17:42,162
because what's nice
is it it changes as you do it.

298
00:17:42,162 --> 00:17:44,073
The energy
comes out of a work

299
00:17:44,073 --> 00:17:48,412
that has been achieved
as a result of making it,

300
00:17:48,412 --> 00:17:52,413
rather than as a premeditation
and then completion, you know.

301
00:17:54,353 --> 00:17:57,463
I had designed that logo
for this school for the 40th.

302
00:17:57,463 --> 00:17:59,884
So I got the mark
I'd done,

303
00:17:59,884 --> 00:18:02,824
and I said just give me
a batch of these,

304
00:18:02,824 --> 00:18:05,543
and we just ran them off
on our copier.

305
00:18:05,543 --> 00:18:07,416
And I pasted
them all down,

306
00:18:07,416 --> 00:18:10,333
and it looked just like a Frank Stella,
which wasn't bad.

307
00:18:10,333 --> 00:18:11,662
And then as I was
pasting them,

308
00:18:11,662 --> 00:18:13,262
some of the edges
were coming up

309
00:18:13,262 --> 00:18:14,125
and says,
you know,

310
00:18:14,125 --> 00:18:17,253
it sort of looks more interesting
with the edges coming up.

311
00:18:17,253 --> 00:18:19,113
If I were doing this
on the computer

312
00:18:19,113 --> 00:18:22,113
and it were not
real pieces of paper,

313
00:18:22,113 --> 00:18:23,673
it never
would've happened.

314
00:18:25,713 --> 00:18:28,913
You could create this on the computer
and the illusion,

315
00:18:28,913 --> 00:18:31,893
but you wouldn't have
stumbled into it as a physical act.

316
00:18:31,893 --> 00:18:36,153
[♪]

317
00:18:36,153 --> 00:18:38,567
I've designed in
any number of typefaces,

318
00:18:38,567 --> 00:18:41,277
but they're not
really typefaces.

319
00:18:41,277 --> 00:18:46,079
They're kind of an idea that,
although it's done frequently now,

320
00:18:46,079 --> 00:18:49,576
an idea about form that has been
translated through typeface.

321
00:18:49,576 --> 00:18:53,716
The most obvious function of typography
is to convey a narrative.

322
00:18:53,716 --> 00:18:57,166
But there's another whole range
of activity for typography,

323
00:18:57,166 --> 00:19:00,105
which is more decorative
and more instrumental

324
00:19:00,105 --> 00:19:02,395
in communicating
atmosphere.

325
00:19:02,395 --> 00:19:06,820
I do a kind of novelty faces
which have a sort of premise

326
00:19:06,820 --> 00:19:10,265
and then I use for a headline
or something else.

327
00:19:10,265 --> 00:19:14,264
It's a modest intervention
into the world of typography.

328
00:19:16,574 --> 00:19:18,204
Now, this is a
nice picture,

329
00:19:20,484 --> 00:19:23,007
the two of us going
to work on something.

330
00:19:23,537 --> 00:19:24,766
He was great.

331
00:19:26,217 --> 00:19:29,217
I had an odd friendship
with Folon.

332
00:19:29,217 --> 00:19:30,958
He spoke no English,
I spoke no French,

333
00:19:30,958 --> 00:19:33,638
and we would have
these long conversations.

334
00:19:33,638 --> 00:19:35,581
We would talk
for hours

335
00:19:35,581 --> 00:19:38,567
without either of us
having the other's language.

336
00:19:41,327 --> 00:19:42,397
And then one day,
I said,

337
00:19:42,397 --> 00:19:43,519
"You know,
there's a good chance

338
00:19:43,519 --> 00:19:46,382
we've been misunderstanding ourselves
all these years."

339
00:19:47,612 --> 00:19:51,538
So, to celebrate that misunderstanding,
we said, let's do a book,

340
00:19:52,858 --> 00:19:58,178
where I started drawing
and you continue it,

341
00:19:58,178 --> 00:20:01,678
and then I continue your drawing,
and you continue mine,

342
00:20:01,678 --> 00:20:06,379
and it's a series, in some degree,
of misunderstandings.

343
00:20:08,559 --> 00:20:11,919
A little bit like
a series of improvisations.

344
00:20:11,919 --> 00:20:15,719
It's like you get a theme going
and you just do variations on it.

345
00:20:15,719 --> 00:20:17,670
But it sold very well
in Europe.

346
00:20:17,670 --> 00:20:21,398
And of course, for me,
it really is a document

347
00:20:21,398 --> 00:20:26,091
of my love and affection
for a wonderful, wonderful friend.

348
00:20:26,091 --> 00:20:31,630
[♪]

349
00:20:31,630 --> 00:20:36,181
[Heller] Milton probably has
the most international reputation

350
00:20:36,181 --> 00:20:40,001
of any designer living today,
in large part because

351
00:20:40,001 --> 00:20:46,351
he was at the center
of such culturally explosive things

352
00:20:46,351 --> 00:20:49,607
culturally diverse things,
starting in the '60s.

353
00:20:49,607 --> 00:20:53,891
I mean, because of Milton,
in large part, psychedelia exists.

354
00:20:53,891 --> 00:20:55,910
Because of Milton,
in large part,

355
00:20:55,910 --> 00:20:59,702
this kind of post-modern
sensibility exists.

356
00:20:59,702 --> 00:21:02,031
He played a role
in all of these things,

357
00:21:02,031 --> 00:21:03,832
and all of these things
got exported.

358
00:21:03,832 --> 00:21:05,392
'Course there was
that big show

359
00:21:05,392 --> 00:21:08,712
at Pushman Studios
early in my career,

360
00:21:08,712 --> 00:21:11,271
which alerted Europeans
to the fact

361
00:21:11,271 --> 00:21:15,541
that there was
a kind of new, um,

362
00:21:15,541 --> 00:21:19,783
non-Swiss version of design
happening in the United States.

363
00:21:19,783 --> 00:21:26,053
And as a result of that,
I became relatively well-known

364
00:21:26,053 --> 00:21:29,465
in Europe and South America
and so on,

365
00:21:29,465 --> 00:21:33,714
because of the kinds of assignments
that I got afterwards.

366
00:21:33,714 --> 00:21:37,343
[Heller] We have done newspapers
around the world.

367
00:21:37,343 --> 00:21:40,573
We've done
<i>La Vanguardia</i> in Barcelona,

368
00:21:40,573 --> 00:21:42,964
<i>ABC</i> in Madrid,

369
00:21:42,964 --> 00:21:44,794
<i>O Globo</i> in Rio.

370
00:21:44,794 --> 00:21:47,214
We did <i>Espresso</i>
in Rome twice,

371
00:21:47,214 --> 00:21:48,442
<i>Barron's</i> twice.

372
00:21:48,622 --> 00:21:53,091
[Glaser] In France, we did <i>L'Express</i>
for Sir James Goldsmith,

373
00:21:53,091 --> 00:21:57,794
who also owned a literary magazine
called <i>Lire</i> which we did,

374
00:21:57,794 --> 00:22:01,662
and there were innumerable others--
<i>Business Tokyo</i> in Japan.

375
00:22:01,662 --> 00:22:04,835
There was a time when I was
popping back and forth

376
00:22:04,835 --> 00:22:09,220
to Europe often,
and other places as well.

377
00:22:09,220 --> 00:22:12,617
I would think that
one thing that travel did

378
00:22:12,617 --> 00:22:15,446
was simply amplify
what was already present,

379
00:22:15,446 --> 00:22:20,732
which was an appetite
for whatever the surroundings offered,

380
00:22:20,732 --> 00:22:25,188
whether they were cultural
or visual or whatever else.

381
00:22:25,188 --> 00:22:28,415
I mean, you can't very well
go to Barcelona

382
00:22:28,415 --> 00:22:32,155
and see Gaudí
and come back unchanged.

383
00:22:32,155 --> 00:22:34,127
I mean,
there are some things

384
00:22:34,127 --> 00:22:40,387
that travel just affects
your nervous system so much

385
00:22:40,387 --> 00:22:44,023
that there's nothing
that you can do to avoid it

386
00:22:44,023 --> 00:22:48,147
without even consciously
wanting to emulate something.

387
00:22:48,147 --> 00:22:49,457
I would say,
in that way,

388
00:22:49,457 --> 00:22:54,787
travel penetrates your consciousness,
but not in a rational way.

389
00:22:56,707 --> 00:22:59,718
A woman in Milan
named Cristina Taverna

390
00:22:59,718 --> 00:23:01,388
decided to go into
the publishing business

391
00:23:01,388 --> 00:23:04,017
as she thought she would
publish <i>The Divine Comedy,</i>

392
00:23:04,017 --> 00:23:06,108
and I was disappointed
because I wanted to do hell,

393
00:23:06,108 --> 00:23:07,225
but then
I realized,

394
00:23:07,225 --> 00:23:11,384
purgatory's much more interesting
because that's where we are now.

395
00:23:11,384 --> 00:23:14,018
At any rate, I decided
to do it in mono prints,

396
00:23:14,018 --> 00:23:16,329
which I hadn't done
for many years,

397
00:23:16,329 --> 00:23:18,659
and so I took a course
in Woodstock.

398
00:23:18,659 --> 00:23:20,640
The interesting thing
about a mono print--

399
00:23:20,640 --> 00:23:23,909
and the name itself
reveals its limitation--

400
00:23:23,909 --> 00:23:25,772
it says you can
only get one.

401
00:23:25,772 --> 00:23:27,700
Except if you do it on
a piece of paper,

402
00:23:27,700 --> 00:23:30,668
you could rearrange it
in the process of re-inking it

403
00:23:30,668 --> 00:23:34,989
so that it gives you a very nice way
of doing a second version,

404
00:23:34,989 --> 00:23:39,030
but what you can't do is
another print of the same thing.

405
00:23:39,030 --> 00:23:42,320
Works that are too preconceived
tend to go dead.

406
00:23:42,320 --> 00:23:44,879
They become inert
and less lively.

407
00:23:44,879 --> 00:23:47,900
Work that responds to
the peculiarities of the moment

408
00:23:47,900 --> 00:23:49,419
tend to be
more energized.

409
00:23:49,419 --> 00:23:52,259
[woman] So, some of those surprises
are happy surprises.

410
00:23:52,259 --> 00:23:55,390
[Glaser] Oh, absolutely.
You have both experiences.

411
00:23:55,390 --> 00:23:58,454
You know, sometimes it's much better
than you thought it was going to be.

412
00:23:58,454 --> 00:24:01,621
Like life itself,
sometimes it's much worse.

413
00:24:01,621 --> 00:24:02,627
[woman]
That's right.

414
00:24:02,627 --> 00:24:03,673
[both laughing]

415
00:24:03,673 --> 00:24:05,420
[Glaser] I loved
doing purgatory,

416
00:24:05,420 --> 00:24:08,516
perhaps the best things
I've done in my later life,

417
00:24:08,516 --> 00:24:10,411
basically because
they were dark.

418
00:24:10,411 --> 00:24:12,786
But I like the
drama of the dark

419
00:24:12,786 --> 00:24:16,521
and I like the idea of
the conflict between good and evil.

420
00:24:16,521 --> 00:24:18,491
Finally, you get to a point
where you realize

421
00:24:18,491 --> 00:24:21,898
everything is related
to its opposite,

422
00:24:21,898 --> 00:24:25,872
that if you have light,
there has to be darkness.

423
00:24:25,872 --> 00:24:28,028
If there's truth,
there has to be lies.

424
00:24:28,028 --> 00:24:34,672
Everything is defined by its opposite,
and they both require exploration.

425
00:24:35,502 --> 00:24:38,752
I mean, if you simply do a drawing,
a simple drawing,

426
00:24:38,752 --> 00:24:42,566
you're already dealing with
questions of dark and light, right?

427
00:24:42,566 --> 00:24:49,056
[♪]

428
00:24:49,056 --> 00:24:51,900
So much of my work
depends on drawing.

429
00:24:51,900 --> 00:24:55,959
I think of drawing
as my essential resource,

430
00:24:55,959 --> 00:24:58,239
that that's where my understanding
of form comes from,

431
00:24:58,239 --> 00:25:00,313
and whenever
I can draw,

432
00:25:00,313 --> 00:25:03,893
because I find it so pleasurable,
I will draw.

433
00:25:03,893 --> 00:25:08,923
[♪]

434
00:25:27,587 --> 00:25:31,544
[Peter] You could just sit down
in front of a piece of paper

435
00:25:31,544 --> 00:25:32,702
and you would
start right away.

436
00:25:32,702 --> 00:25:35,354
What is it about drawing
and line--

437
00:25:35,354 --> 00:25:40,093
[Glaser] I am a great believer in drawing
as a way of understanding the world.

438
00:25:40,093 --> 00:25:44,401
In fact, I was thinking for the book
that you want to do of my drawings--

439
00:25:44,401 --> 00:25:45,662
Peter: I do.

440
00:25:45,662 --> 00:25:50,329
Glaser: --that a title might be
<i>Drawing Is Thinking.</i>

441
00:25:50,329 --> 00:25:56,079
[♪]

442
00:26:01,536 --> 00:26:04,490
Tabibian: The idea is to
make the hand do what you want.

443
00:26:04,490 --> 00:26:09,152
In his case, the hands
have no resistance.

444
00:26:09,152 --> 00:26:17,348
The hands are inanimate tools
without will of their own,

445
00:26:17,348 --> 00:26:23,372
and so the translation
of image to drawing

446
00:26:23,372 --> 00:26:29,310
is automatic, complete,
unmediated, instantaneous.

447
00:26:30,770 --> 00:26:33,872
To see it at work,
[chuckles], well...

448
00:26:33,872 --> 00:26:35,963
[Glaser] It's funny, you know,
one of the great things

449
00:26:35,963 --> 00:26:39,379
about being able to make
pictures and drawings--

450
00:26:39,379 --> 00:26:42,452
it makes you feel like
you're really like God.

451
00:26:42,452 --> 00:26:45,049
This drawing derives
from a photograph

452
00:26:45,049 --> 00:26:47,487
of Monet and family,
and all I really did

453
00:26:47,487 --> 00:26:52,680
was I put a snake in the foreground
that clearly wasn't there.

454
00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:56,132
But I must say that it
transforms everything.

455
00:26:56,132 --> 00:26:59,163
Once the snake enters it,
you see everything shift.

456
00:26:59,163 --> 00:27:02,563
[♪]

457
00:27:24,690 --> 00:27:27,375
[man]] How much of your work
is self-initiated?

458
00:27:28,155 --> 00:27:30,218
[Glaser] Less than
I would like, actually.

459
00:27:30,218 --> 00:27:36,105
I mean, I am so conditioned
to working to a specific problem.

460
00:27:36,105 --> 00:27:38,755
But every once in a while,
I have the opportunity

461
00:27:38,755 --> 00:27:45,156
to sort of do a cycle of work
that I basically start myself.

462
00:27:45,156 --> 00:27:47,105
The Monet project
was pretty extensive.

463
00:27:47,105 --> 00:27:49,455
There were
over 50 drawings.

464
00:27:50,035 --> 00:27:52,605
All of these are events
that could've happened

465
00:27:52,605 --> 00:27:54,574
but didn't necessarily.

466
00:27:55,394 --> 00:27:58,317
Monet's dog.
I don't know if he had a dog.

467
00:27:58,317 --> 00:28:01,057
[man] He does now.
[Glaser chuckles]

468
00:28:01,976 --> 00:28:03,987
[Glaser] The truth is that
I have been looking for

469
00:28:03,987 --> 00:28:07,047
a definition of what art is
all my life

470
00:28:07,047 --> 00:28:11,957
without fully understanding
exactly what it encompasses,

471
00:28:11,957 --> 00:28:14,506
but, in the course
of doing a speech,

472
00:28:14,506 --> 00:28:17,927
I looked up several references
to what art was,

473
00:28:17,927 --> 00:28:21,906
and I found one by Horace,
who's a critic and poet

474
00:28:21,906 --> 00:28:24,428
back in Roman times
first century, so--

475
00:28:24,428 --> 00:28:26,201
and he had this
great, great line.

476
00:28:26,201 --> 00:28:32,178
He said, "The purpose of art
is to inform and delight."

477
00:28:32,178 --> 00:28:36,427
And I thought wow,
it can't get much better than that.

478
00:28:36,857 --> 00:28:39,148
[Heller] Going back to the Bauhaus,
there was this thing called

479
00:28:39,148 --> 00:28:42,808
the Gesamtkunstwerk,
the total work of art.

480
00:28:42,808 --> 00:28:45,691
And I think that Milton
comes out of that

481
00:28:45,691 --> 00:28:49,228
directly or indirectly
looking at art as art.

482
00:28:49,228 --> 00:28:53,688
And so the commercial
is certainly one part of it

483
00:28:53,688 --> 00:28:58,228
that requires certain requisites,
and then the artist part of him,

484
00:28:58,228 --> 00:29:01,019
the pure artist part of him,
requires other requisites.

485
00:29:01,019 --> 00:29:03,832
But they're really joined.
I mean, you can't separate the two.

486
00:29:03,832 --> 00:29:07,168
He might do pictures of his cats
that are quite beautiful,

487
00:29:07,168 --> 00:29:11,219
and have no place
in a graphic design annual,

488
00:29:11,219 --> 00:29:12,449
but at the
same time,

489
00:29:12,449 --> 00:29:17,139
he injects all of that artistic humanity
into everything he does.

490
00:29:17,139 --> 00:29:19,571
[Glaser] I just thought of that project,
of doing Piero's,

491
00:29:19,571 --> 00:29:22,705
and I realized that if I'm
simply copying Piero's,

492
00:29:22,705 --> 00:29:24,518
what value
does it then have?

493
00:29:24,518 --> 00:29:28,051
And then I realized,
if you looked at Piero as nature,

494
00:29:28,051 --> 00:29:30,982
like you're drawing a tree,
you don't feel as though

495
00:29:30,982 --> 00:29:32,923
you're obliged
to represent that tree.

496
00:29:32,923 --> 00:29:37,000
But then you just have an idea
that the tree initiates.

497
00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:40,038
And so, with the Piero projects,
that's what I did.

498
00:29:40,038 --> 00:29:42,950
I sort of started drawing
as though I were

499
00:29:42,950 --> 00:29:45,320
looking through
a window at Piero, so...

500
00:29:45,320 --> 00:29:48,331
[♪]

501
00:29:48,331 --> 00:29:50,951
Otherwise, I would have been
embarrassed to begin.

502
00:29:50,963 --> 00:29:55,073
[♪]

503
00:29:55,073 --> 00:29:57,086
Gombrich, in his great book,
he says,

504
00:29:57,086 --> 00:30:00,313
"There is no art;
there are only artists."

505
00:30:00,313 --> 00:30:03,632
And you say, "Well,
wait a minute; what, exactly--?"

506
00:30:03,632 --> 00:30:05,222
And what he meant,
of course,

507
00:30:05,222 --> 00:30:08,943
is that what art is
becomes defined generationally.

508
00:30:08,943 --> 00:30:11,574
Everybody's sort of
redefined what art is,

509
00:30:11,574 --> 00:30:14,874
because there's
no then there, right?

510
00:30:14,874 --> 00:30:21,614
It is, in fact, what society determines
at any moment in history.

511
00:30:21,614 --> 00:30:25,083
And the great enemy of art,
of course,

512
00:30:25,083 --> 00:30:31,181
is the institutionalization of belief,
like style or like taste.

513
00:30:31,181 --> 00:30:33,273
We say, "Well,
we finally got to that.

514
00:30:33,273 --> 00:30:35,724
"Here we are.
This is <i>really</i> art."

515
00:30:35,724 --> 00:30:40,504
And once that has-- that happens,
that crystallization of belief,

516
00:30:40,504 --> 00:30:42,548
we're saying,
"Okay, I got it now.

517
00:30:42,548 --> 00:30:46,235
"We put two yellows, one red,
and three of the green guys."

518
00:30:46,235 --> 00:30:51,213
Once that happens, you realize that
that becomes a limitation, right?

519
00:30:51,213 --> 00:30:54,985
When I had my show very early
at the Museum of Modern Art

520
00:30:54,985 --> 00:30:57,266
that Emilio Ambasz
had arranged,

521
00:30:57,266 --> 00:31:00,695
there was one large poster,
the big nude,

522
00:31:00,695 --> 00:31:03,726
that didn't have
any typography on it.

523
00:31:03,726 --> 00:31:06,126
The curator of prints
came in,

524
00:31:06,126 --> 00:31:08,385
he said,
"You can't show that.

525
00:31:08,385 --> 00:31:10,465
"It doesn't have any
typography in it."

526
00:31:10,465 --> 00:31:12,345
He says,
"So what?"

527
00:31:12,345 --> 00:31:13,835
"Well, that makes it
a print,

528
00:31:13,835 --> 00:31:16,005
"and that comes
under my jurisdiction,

529
00:31:16,005 --> 00:31:19,616
"and I don't want that
as representing the print."

530
00:31:19,616 --> 00:31:21,756
I said,
"I can't believe it."

531
00:31:21,756 --> 00:31:25,516
What I have always hated in my life
is the parochialization of art,

532
00:31:25,516 --> 00:31:30,515
making it a special activity
unrelated to other activities.

533
00:31:30,515 --> 00:31:34,507
It finally ends up as being
an instrument for social enhancement

534
00:31:34,507 --> 00:31:37,647
and not what it really is,
which was an expression

535
00:31:37,647 --> 00:31:40,528
of a very fundamental instinct
of the species.

536
00:31:42,588 --> 00:31:45,664
There's a wonderful book
that I have quoted for most of my life

537
00:31:45,664 --> 00:31:47,727
by Lewis Hyde
called <i>The Gift,</i>

538
00:31:47,727 --> 00:31:51,164
and it basically says
that this gift-giving,

539
00:31:51,164 --> 00:31:55,147
which occurs in primitive cultures
from one tribe to another,

540
00:31:55,147 --> 00:32:01,297
which is a device for pacifying others
and establishing relationship,

541
00:32:01,297 --> 00:32:03,888
is what artists do.

542
00:32:03,888 --> 00:32:07,396
They basically create
the commonalities,

543
00:32:07,396 --> 00:32:09,858
the symbolism,
so that people feel as though

544
00:32:09,858 --> 00:32:12,368
they have some relationship
to one another.

545
00:32:12,368 --> 00:32:15,837
When people don't feel that
they have that relationship,

546
00:32:15,837 --> 00:32:17,138
they kill each other,

547
00:32:17,138 --> 00:32:26,765
so that row of providing common ground
is absolutely essential to civilization.

548
00:32:26,765 --> 00:32:27,736
The nice thing
about it is

549
00:32:27,736 --> 00:32:31,199
there's always a next plateau
of understanding.

550
00:32:31,199 --> 00:32:35,631
It's very exciting to think that
you don't run out, right?

551
00:32:35,631 --> 00:32:38,109
That history doesn't run out,
that art doesn't run out,

552
00:32:38,109 --> 00:32:41,944
and so you just,
you go as far as you can,

553
00:32:41,944 --> 00:32:44,620
and then leave some room
for the next guy.

554
00:32:45,750 --> 00:32:48,110
[♪ relaxing piano music ♪]

555
00:32:48,110 --> 00:32:51,930
In junior high school,
when I was deciding whether

556
00:32:51,930 --> 00:32:55,040
to go to Bronx Science
or music and art,

557
00:32:55,040 --> 00:32:58,440
and I had a very encouraging
science teacher,

558
00:32:58,440 --> 00:33:00,871
and I made the decision
that I would go to music and art.

559
00:33:00,871 --> 00:33:02,720
And shortly after
I'd made that decision,

560
00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:04,432
he stopped me
in the hall one day.

561
00:33:04,432 --> 00:33:09,092
He said, "I wanna talk to you."
And my heart sank.

562
00:33:09,092 --> 00:33:14,591
So we went into his office
and he reached down into his desk,

563
00:33:14,591 --> 00:33:18,582
and he pulled out
a box of French conte crayons.

564
00:33:18,582 --> 00:33:22,313
He gave it to me and he said,
"Do good work."

565
00:33:24,393 --> 00:33:29,303
To some degree, everything I do
has been supported by this idea

566
00:33:29,303 --> 00:33:32,462
that the only way
I could really pay him back

567
00:33:32,462 --> 00:33:33,946
was to do
good work.

568
00:33:33,946 --> 00:33:41,386
[♪]

569
00:33:42,476 --> 00:33:46,312
Well, this is my old high school,
a high school of music and art.

570
00:33:46,312 --> 00:33:49,513
I received an exceedingly
good education there.

571
00:33:49,513 --> 00:33:52,234
And a few years ago,
the principal, Kim Bruno,

572
00:33:52,234 --> 00:33:55,312
asked me if I would do
a new identity for the school.

573
00:33:55,312 --> 00:33:58,665
Now, the problem seemed to be
the name of the school itself,

574
00:33:58,665 --> 00:34:00,395
which, if you
can believe it,

575
00:34:00,395 --> 00:34:05,251
is the Fiorello H. LaGuardia High School
of Music & Art and Performing Arts.

576
00:34:05,251 --> 00:34:10,835
My suggestion was that they
change the name to LaGuardia Arts.

577
00:34:10,835 --> 00:34:13,764
And on that basis,
I proceeded to design a logo

578
00:34:13,764 --> 00:34:17,224
that is based on the idea
of musical score,

579
00:34:17,224 --> 00:34:20,102
and it is the only logo
that can actually be sung.

580
00:34:20,562 --> 00:34:24,149
[singing] ♪ La... ♪

581
00:34:26,305 --> 00:34:29,705
But I entered the school at 15
because I came from junior high school.

582
00:34:29,705 --> 00:34:33,635
After there, I got into Cooper Union,
and I must say,

583
00:34:33,635 --> 00:34:36,305
I received a wonderful,
wonderful education.

584
00:34:37,195 --> 00:34:39,386
Well, Push Pin
grew out of an attempt

585
00:34:39,386 --> 00:34:42,436
to recreate the spirit
and the energy

586
00:34:42,436 --> 00:34:45,415
of Cooper Union
while we were students there.

587
00:34:45,415 --> 00:34:47,486
It was years later,
after I had come back

588
00:34:47,486 --> 00:34:49,826
from Italy
on my Fulbright,

589
00:34:49,826 --> 00:34:53,887
that we all decided we would
like to continue to work together.

590
00:34:53,887 --> 00:34:58,926
[Heller] Push Pin gathered together
some very demonstrative personalities:

591
00:34:58,926 --> 00:35:01,856
Milton Glaser, Seymour Chwast,
as the leaders,

592
00:35:01,856 --> 00:35:04,609
Ed Sorel was involved,
and others.

593
00:35:04,609 --> 00:35:10,337
And it created a stylistic buzz.
It created an attitude.

594
00:35:10,337 --> 00:35:15,407
Push Pin was like
the epitome of fun in design.

595
00:35:15,407 --> 00:35:17,475
[Glaser] We worked from
a different point of view.

596
00:35:17,475 --> 00:35:19,376
It was an eclectic
point of view

597
00:35:19,376 --> 00:35:23,379
that celebrated ornament
and drawing and narration,

598
00:35:23,379 --> 00:35:26,438
all the things that the modernists
taught us to hate.

599
00:35:26,438 --> 00:35:31,847
[Heller] In that sense,
Push Pin opened a door into eclecticism

600
00:35:31,847 --> 00:35:35,922
that no other firm had done,
and did so in a sophisticated way.

601
00:35:35,922 --> 00:35:44,692
[♪]

602
00:35:44,692 --> 00:35:46,619
Push Pin had,
as a strategy,

603
00:35:46,619 --> 00:35:50,398
to draw on these historical forms,
these passé forms,

604
00:35:50,398 --> 00:35:53,052
bring them together,
meld them, mold them,

605
00:35:53,052 --> 00:35:56,150
and make them into something
that was highly contemporary.

606
00:35:56,150 --> 00:36:00,796
[Glaser] I felt, actually, that
our success had defined us too much.

607
00:36:00,796 --> 00:36:04,567
Push Pin had become a style,
and I don't trust styles.

608
00:36:04,567 --> 00:36:08,721
And above all, I don't want to
be encapsulated in a style.

609
00:36:08,721 --> 00:36:16,001
So, it felt to me as though
I would have to redefine myself.

610
00:36:18,961 --> 00:36:22,210
I really started Milton Glaser Inc.
at that time,

611
00:36:22,210 --> 00:36:27,621
began to move into areas
of restaurant design for Joe Bau,

612
00:36:27,621 --> 00:36:30,951
supermarket design
for Sir James Goldsmith,

613
00:36:30,951 --> 00:36:32,600
and that required
really transforming

614
00:36:32,600 --> 00:36:35,600
a small studio
into a large studio,

615
00:36:35,600 --> 00:36:40,051
and still staying with all the activities
of <i>New York</i> magazine,

616
00:36:40,051 --> 00:36:42,672
which included acquiring
the <i>Village Voice</i>

617
00:36:42,672 --> 00:36:44,932
and starting up
<i>New West</i> magazine on--

618
00:36:44,932 --> 00:36:47,762
and we were very ambitious
through all of that.

619
00:36:47,762 --> 00:36:50,341
It was a very,
very busy time.

620
00:36:50,341 --> 00:36:56,161
[♪]

621
00:36:56,161 --> 00:36:58,561
And that kept me going
for a good long time,

622
00:36:58,561 --> 00:37:01,982
until Murdoch bought <i>New York</i>
and we left,

623
00:37:01,982 --> 00:37:06,323
and I continued to do supermarkets
for about 20 years.

624
00:37:06,323 --> 00:37:10,013
I've spent a large part of my life
doing supermarkets.

625
00:37:10,013 --> 00:37:12,314
And I learned a lot
from the act of doing that.

626
00:37:12,314 --> 00:37:16,703
I'm very happy with the work
we did on supermarkets

627
00:37:16,703 --> 00:37:18,943
because it made life better
for a lot of people.

628
00:37:18,943 --> 00:37:20,074
It made things clearer.

629
00:37:20,074 --> 00:37:21,934
It made the navigation
through the market

630
00:37:21,934 --> 00:37:24,863
more understandable,
and less fatiguing.

631
00:37:24,863 --> 00:37:27,104
Also because
we really had to

632
00:37:27,104 --> 00:37:33,662
talk to your average American
all over the country,

633
00:37:33,662 --> 00:37:36,693
and that was very,
very instructive.

634
00:37:36,693 --> 00:37:44,183
[♪]

635
00:37:44,183 --> 00:37:46,084
A lot of the work we do
is sort of for--

636
00:37:46,084 --> 00:37:51,784
aimed at a thin hierarchy of
design-interested personalities,

637
00:37:51,784 --> 00:37:57,085
and other designers,
and fancy people as well.

638
00:37:57,085 --> 00:38:00,815
But those years designing supermarkets
were very fundamental

639
00:38:00,815 --> 00:38:03,805
in shaping my perception
on how to communicate cleanly.

640
00:38:08,925 --> 00:38:11,726
At that book event,
at least eight people

641
00:38:11,726 --> 00:38:14,636
came over to me
at the event in publishing--

642
00:38:14,636 --> 00:38:15,366
Man: Yes.

643
00:38:15,366 --> 00:38:18,656
Glaser: --to have said, I studied
with you back 40 years ago.

644
00:38:18,656 --> 00:38:19,958
I love to teach.

645
00:38:19,958 --> 00:38:22,076
I don't think I have
an obligation to teach.

646
00:38:22,076 --> 00:38:25,460
I teach because
I feel better when I teach

647
00:38:25,460 --> 00:38:26,863
as when I don't teach.

648
00:38:26,863 --> 00:38:29,282
Glaser: But I think what you've done
in this presentation--

649
00:38:29,282 --> 00:38:30,934
you've really
got that.

650
00:38:30,934 --> 00:38:33,595
It is withholding.
It doesn't give you everything.

651
00:38:33,595 --> 00:38:35,550
It's just one of the
secrets of design.

652
00:38:35,550 --> 00:38:38,454
[Glaser] People always ask me
why I teach, and, of course,

653
00:38:38,454 --> 00:38:41,137
the fact that people
ask that question in itself

654
00:38:41,137 --> 00:38:45,743
just indicates the kind
of low-voltage contempt

655
00:38:45,743 --> 00:38:48,726
that teaching is actually held in
in America.

656
00:38:48,726 --> 00:38:52,538
The idea of being a teacher
is that you've got to pass it on.

657
00:38:52,538 --> 00:38:55,137
You learn something;
you develop some insights;

658
00:38:55,137 --> 00:39:00,572
your experience can be transmitted
and that is the nature of civilization.

659
00:39:00,572 --> 00:39:04,118
[Heller] Milton's summer program
is a monumental experience

660
00:39:04,118 --> 00:39:06,828
for anybody who comes
into the programs.

661
00:39:06,828 --> 00:39:10,358
He draws people
from all over the profession.

662
00:39:10,358 --> 00:39:12,496
This is not somebody
just coming to school.

663
00:39:12,496 --> 00:39:14,478
These are people who've been
working for years.

664
00:39:14,478 --> 00:39:19,149
And what he does
is he gives them this wisdom,

665
00:39:19,149 --> 00:39:21,379
as well as
tests them.

666
00:39:21,379 --> 00:39:26,645
His curriculum is a constant--
let's call it boot camp.

667
00:39:26,645 --> 00:39:29,800
I mean, he takes a problem
and he has people solve it

668
00:39:29,800 --> 00:39:31,470
in a very short
amount of time,

669
00:39:31,470 --> 00:39:34,614
so it's really testing
both sides of the brain at once.

670
00:39:34,614 --> 00:39:39,101
And if they can succeed, great.
If they fail, even greater

671
00:39:39,101 --> 00:39:42,310
because then you get
his wholehearted wisdom.

672
00:39:42,310 --> 00:39:43,450
Glaser: I wanna just-

673
00:39:43,450 --> 00:39:45,281
[Maxwell] I took his class
when I was 17.

674
00:39:45,281 --> 00:39:55,180
I began to realize we were not
designing objects, like book covers.

675
00:39:55,180 --> 00:39:57,010
We were
redesigning the world.

676
00:39:57,010 --> 00:40:00,498
I don't think I've ever heard him
say we have a responsibility.

677
00:40:00,498 --> 00:40:03,060
It swims into the consciousness
by his actions.

678
00:40:03,060 --> 00:40:06,201
To have spent time with him
and not feel responsibility

679
00:40:06,201 --> 00:40:08,502
would've been
to not be paying attention.

680
00:40:08,502 --> 00:40:11,219
[Heller] The ripple effect
that Milton has had is enormous.

681
00:40:11,219 --> 00:40:13,291
People who come out
of those programs,

682
00:40:13,291 --> 00:40:16,691
there are-- you know, there are
certain epiphanies that they have,

683
00:40:16,691 --> 00:40:21,019
and they go back into their jobs
with this new inspiration.

684
00:40:21,019 --> 00:40:25,139
Or, as our students do,
they go back into the world

685
00:40:25,139 --> 00:40:31,472
with a tool kit that they can draw on
at any given time.

686
00:40:31,472 --> 00:40:34,532
It's not a specific thing,
necessarily.

687
00:40:34,532 --> 00:40:37,192
But in the case of one of
our students, Deborah Adler,

688
00:40:37,192 --> 00:40:42,463
her thesis project was to repackage
and redesign prescription drugs.

689
00:40:42,463 --> 00:40:45,323
[Adler] My grandmother
was taking an antibiotic,

690
00:40:45,323 --> 00:40:46,903
which is what my grandfather
was taking.

691
00:40:46,903 --> 00:40:49,863
Her name is Helen Adler
and his name is Herman Adler,

692
00:40:49,863 --> 00:40:53,183
and she accidentally took his drug,
which is a higher dosage.

693
00:40:53,183 --> 00:40:55,523
Nothing bad happened
other than the fact that she got dizzy,

694
00:40:55,523 --> 00:40:58,391
but it was enough to make me
aware of the packaging.

695
00:40:58,391 --> 00:41:01,083
[Glaser] At one point,
we thought it should be something

696
00:41:01,083 --> 00:41:03,042
that the federal government
would mandate,

697
00:41:03,042 --> 00:41:04,852
and it wasn't
going to happen.

698
00:41:04,852 --> 00:41:07,154
The government would
never get behind it.

699
00:41:07,154 --> 00:41:10,561
It would take 35 years
for anything to happen and so on.

700
00:41:10,561 --> 00:41:12,594
So, I had a connection to Target--

701
00:41:12,594 --> 00:41:15,674
[Heller] --who then ultimately
bought the whole concept,

702
00:41:15,674 --> 00:41:18,625
and rolled out a new
prescription drug package

703
00:41:18,625 --> 00:41:22,208
that has become
the paradigm of design

704
00:41:22,208 --> 00:41:25,725
in the service of society
and the service of culture.

705
00:41:25,725 --> 00:41:29,495
I mean, without Milton's aid
and enthusiasm,

706
00:41:29,495 --> 00:41:30,615
this would never
have happened.

707
00:41:30,615 --> 00:41:32,444
And this is the highest bar.

708
00:41:32,444 --> 00:41:35,445
There are middle bars where,
thanks to Milton,

709
00:41:35,445 --> 00:41:38,366
people are just practicing in a
different, more thoughtful way.

710
00:41:38,366 --> 00:41:40,236
It's not about
design as service.

711
00:41:40,236 --> 00:41:44,156
It's design
as cultural value.

712
00:41:44,156 --> 00:41:46,105
[Glaser] I learned
a lot about teaching

713
00:41:46,105 --> 00:41:48,675
from studying with
Giorgio Morandi years ago.

714
00:41:48,675 --> 00:41:53,326
What the students get from a
good teacher is not instruction.

715
00:41:53,326 --> 00:41:56,791
What they get is a demonstration
of someone's view of life.

716
00:41:56,791 --> 00:41:58,028
I mean,
that's what you teach.

717
00:41:58,028 --> 00:42:01,609
You teach a way of
perceiving the world.

718
00:42:01,609 --> 00:42:03,906
His entire life
was about the work.

719
00:42:03,906 --> 00:42:05,627
There was nothing else.

720
00:42:05,627 --> 00:42:07,546
I thought,
no matter what you're doing,

721
00:42:07,546 --> 00:42:09,867
whether it's painting
or typography

722
00:42:09,867 --> 00:42:13,458
or even working as a waiter
in a restaurant,

723
00:42:13,458 --> 00:42:16,798
that complete commitment
is transformative.

724
00:42:16,798 --> 00:42:18,498
I mean,
it makes you different

725
00:42:18,498 --> 00:42:20,898
when you truly commit
to what you're doing.

726
00:42:21,908 --> 00:42:25,446
I went to Italy having
never left home before.

727
00:42:25,446 --> 00:42:28,738
I guess I was 20 or 21,
you know, smart-ass Jewish kid,

728
00:42:28,738 --> 00:42:31,837
who really figured I knew
the way the world worked.

729
00:42:31,837 --> 00:42:32,897
And then
I went to Italy,

730
00:42:32,897 --> 00:42:35,898
and I realized that I didn't know
anything about anything.

731
00:42:35,898 --> 00:42:41,035
And it gave me this sense
of the continuity

732
00:42:41,035 --> 00:42:43,504
of human history,
of the human experience,

733
00:42:43,504 --> 00:42:47,790
I mean, going from, you know,
Romanesque to the Gothic to the--

734
00:42:47,790 --> 00:42:49,209
[man] It's a
kind of old place.

735
00:42:49,209 --> 00:42:51,170
[Glaser] Right, it's an old place.
And it's all-

736
00:42:51,170 --> 00:42:53,100
but more importantly,
it's all visible.

737
00:42:53,100 --> 00:42:56,330
It really shifted me from
the idea of modernism

738
00:42:56,330 --> 00:42:59,060
as being the
only available resource

739
00:42:59,060 --> 00:43:01,850
to draw on
for a young designer.

740
00:43:01,850 --> 00:43:04,930
I suddenly realized
history was not the enemy,

741
00:43:04,930 --> 00:43:11,709
that you could use anything
as raw material to make something.

742
00:43:11,709 --> 00:43:16,330
That was a great,
great transformation for me,

743
00:43:16,330 --> 00:43:17,801
and it's persisted
to this day.

744
00:43:17,801 --> 00:43:20,641
I mean, in that sense,
Italy was very important

745
00:43:20,641 --> 00:43:23,802
to changing my view of, well,
the importance of food.

746
00:43:23,802 --> 00:43:25,680
My mother
was a terrible cook.

747
00:43:25,680 --> 00:43:29,701
I got to Bologna,
the best place for eating in Italy,

748
00:43:29,701 --> 00:43:31,791
and suddenly
I understood something

749
00:43:31,791 --> 00:43:33,621
that I'd never learned
in the Bronx.

750
00:43:33,621 --> 00:43:39,810
[Tabibian] There were several things
about his mother's spaghetti recipe.

751
00:43:41,220 --> 00:43:43,531
She would take a pound
of Mueller spaghetti,

752
00:43:43,531 --> 00:43:46,779
which was,
as a brand,

753
00:43:46,779 --> 00:43:50,931
much less intimidating
than Buitoni or Rozoni.

754
00:43:50,931 --> 00:43:53,702
It sort of sounded
a little Jewish to my mother.

755
00:43:53,702 --> 00:43:59,553
And she would boil it in a
big aluminum pot for about an hour.

756
00:43:59,553 --> 00:44:05,482
[Tabibian] And she puts on it
some Velveeta cheese.

757
00:44:05,482 --> 00:44:08,531
And about a half cup
of Heinz tomato ketchup.

758
00:44:08,531 --> 00:44:12,732
And, uh, bakes it.
Bakes!

759
00:44:12,732 --> 00:44:15,922
And then allowed to cool,
and she would de-mold it,

760
00:44:15,922 --> 00:44:19,903
take it out, and sort of looked like
the dome of St. Peters.

761
00:44:21,403 --> 00:44:24,094
Bravo.
Guess what happens next?

762
00:44:24,094 --> 00:44:25,658
And then
she would slice it--

763
00:44:26,018 --> 00:44:27,418
And fries it!

764
00:44:27,418 --> 00:44:29,022
--and fry it in chicken fat.

765
00:44:29,022 --> 00:44:36,184
[Tabibian] From that to Ristorante Diana
in Bologna, it's a long way.

766
00:44:36,184 --> 00:44:39,488
It's a very long way.

767
00:44:39,488 --> 00:44:41,162
One thing
I can tell you about Milton

768
00:44:41,162 --> 00:44:48,824
uh, is that he loves food,
and he loves to have, uh, lunch.

769
00:44:51,014 --> 00:44:52,544
[Glaser] Okay,
so here we are

770
00:44:52,544 --> 00:44:56,295
at one of the great
dim sum palaces in Chinatown.

771
00:44:56,295 --> 00:45:01,275
My favorite way of eating--
a lot of little things.

772
00:45:01,275 --> 00:45:04,439
[Bernard] When he was at
<i>New York</i> magazine, he had a--

773
00:45:04,439 --> 00:45:07,437
several regular lunches
with Jerome Snyder,

774
00:45:07,437 --> 00:45:09,256
who was his partner
at <i>The Underground Gourmet.</i>

775
00:45:09,256 --> 00:45:11,187
So they would invite
three or four people,

776
00:45:11,187 --> 00:45:13,376
and we'd go to some
Polish delicatessen

777
00:45:13,376 --> 00:45:14,966
or cheap coffee shop
or whatever,

778
00:45:14,966 --> 00:45:16,626
but we'd always have
these wonderful lunches

779
00:45:16,626 --> 00:45:19,526
because we'd have to sample
everything on the menu.

780
00:45:19,526 --> 00:45:20,637
[Glaser] So what
you would do is

781
00:45:20,637 --> 00:45:22,956
you would go into
an ethnic neighborhood.

782
00:45:22,956 --> 00:45:24,847
You would always
find small restaurants

783
00:45:24,847 --> 00:45:26,938
catering to the
local community.

784
00:45:26,938 --> 00:45:30,176
It was the first time anyone
had ever written about cheap restaurants,

785
00:45:30,176 --> 00:45:33,172
because cheap restaurants
don't advertise in magazines.

786
00:45:33,172 --> 00:45:34,761
But the great thing
about it

787
00:45:34,761 --> 00:45:40,477
was that it really had a profound effect
on eating patterns in New York

788
00:45:40,477 --> 00:45:43,187
because we made it acceptable
to the middle class

789
00:45:43,187 --> 00:45:45,698
to eat in a
cheap restaurant.

790
00:45:45,698 --> 00:45:51,278
And I think maybe that was the
best thing I ever did because it began--

791
00:45:51,278 --> 00:45:53,967
We were certainly not
solely responsible,

792
00:45:53,967 --> 00:45:58,598
but it began that shift
of the city's awareness

793
00:45:58,598 --> 00:46:02,428
of this incredible reservoir
of interesting food

794
00:46:02,428 --> 00:46:05,158
that was in this city
already.

795
00:46:05,158 --> 00:46:10,629
And then the realization
of the diversity and the richness

796
00:46:10,629 --> 00:46:13,239
of this available,
good-quality food.

797
00:46:13,239 --> 00:46:16,309
Because if you went in a
Hungarian neighborhood,

798
00:46:16,309 --> 00:46:19,779
they were not going to be
serving lousy Hungarian food.

799
00:46:19,779 --> 00:46:25,229
But that idea that it was okay
to go to a cheap dive,

800
00:46:25,229 --> 00:46:27,589
to have a good meal,
was really something that

801
00:46:27,589 --> 00:46:30,359
<i>The Underground Gourmet</i>
brought to the surface,

802
00:46:30,359 --> 00:46:33,350
and a lot of things happened
as a consequence of that.

803
00:46:34,720 --> 00:46:38,451
[woman] Do you still enjoy going to
offbeat, inexpensive restaurants?

804
00:46:38,451 --> 00:46:40,948
[Glaser] Oh, I love-- I love
going to cheesy restaurants.

805
00:46:40,948 --> 00:46:44,830
There are a couple in my neighborhood
down at 32nd street,

806
00:46:44,830 --> 00:46:46,488
but I'm not gonna tell you
what they are.

807
00:46:46,488 --> 00:46:47,847
Woman: No, no.
It would ruin them.

808
00:46:47,847 --> 00:46:49,340
[Glaser] Yeah, absolutely.

809
00:46:49,350 --> 00:46:51,950
[♪]

810
00:46:51,950 --> 00:46:56,688
[Tabibian] In his work,
food is a major issue,

811
00:46:56,688 --> 00:47:00,628
[♪]

812
00:47:00,628 --> 00:47:03,438
because for him,
food is nurture.

813
00:47:04,198 --> 00:47:05,838
Food is warmth.

814
00:47:06,538 --> 00:47:08,390
Food is generosity.

815
00:47:08,630 --> 00:47:10,030
Food is sharing.

816
00:47:10,030 --> 00:47:12,932
[Glaser] I experience
the same satisfaction

817
00:47:12,932 --> 00:47:15,861
from preparing any dish
that requires cutting

818
00:47:15,861 --> 00:47:19,102
and chopping and arranging
as I do when I'm drawing.

819
00:47:19,102 --> 00:47:23,442
I mean, I don't-- I don't view those
as different kinds of experiences.

820
00:47:23,922 --> 00:47:30,450
[Caplan] Milton's love affair with
and his expertness in food

821
00:47:30,450 --> 00:47:35,934
has informed his design of menus,
restaurant interiors,

822
00:47:35,934 --> 00:47:38,834
and for that matter,
restaurant concepts.

823
00:47:38,834 --> 00:47:43,344
[♪]

824
00:48:02,502 --> 00:48:04,737
[Glaser] That's
the big nose.

825
00:48:05,457 --> 00:48:10,174
This was a disreputable old Irish bar,
and to Shelly Fireman's credit,

826
00:48:10,174 --> 00:48:14,953
he saw that it was a,
uh, unpolished diamond.

827
00:48:14,953 --> 00:48:18,022
And so we completely
ripped it apart

828
00:48:18,022 --> 00:48:23,394
and designed it so that it would have
a series of unfolding experiences:

829
00:48:23,394 --> 00:48:27,494
the bar,
informal and friendly.

830
00:48:29,604 --> 00:48:30,865
We have
the grand room,

831
00:48:30,865 --> 00:48:35,845
which is a paraphrase of the academia
where I studied in Bologna.

832
00:48:35,845 --> 00:48:40,266
So you have this sky light,
this north light.

833
00:48:40,266 --> 00:48:42,495
I hired a painter
named Elliot Levine

834
00:48:42,495 --> 00:48:46,175
to do these
fake Renaissance details.

835
00:48:46,175 --> 00:48:49,177
And then I also commissioned
a friend of mine, Jordan Stecko,

836
00:48:49,177 --> 00:48:52,957
to do enlargements of
details of the body

837
00:48:52,957 --> 00:48:55,677
to signal the idea
this is an art school.

838
00:48:55,677 --> 00:48:57,407
I don't know
how many people get that

839
00:48:57,407 --> 00:49:00,527
but I like the idea that if they're
eating here for ten years,

840
00:49:00,527 --> 00:49:03,608
one day you look up and
you say, "Oh, I get it."

841
00:49:03,608 --> 00:49:07,546
I love that kind of
sustained mystery.

842
00:49:12,606 --> 00:49:17,328
This thing, I guess they've remade
into fancy apartments, huh?

843
00:49:17,328 --> 00:49:18,308
Woman: Yeah.

844
00:49:18,308 --> 00:49:20,988
Glaser: This old building?
That's a new development.

845
00:49:20,988 --> 00:49:24,588
It really was once
a refuge for people

846
00:49:24,588 --> 00:49:26,288
who couldn't pay
adequate rents.

847
00:49:26,288 --> 00:49:30,657
We got our apartment,
which was a floor-through,

848
00:49:30,657 --> 00:49:33,417
for $135 a month.

849
00:49:33,417 --> 00:49:36,348
That wouldn't get you very much
in New York these days.

850
00:49:37,328 --> 00:49:39,828
Well, here.
Here is a sadness.

851
00:49:41,568 --> 00:49:43,358
I was gonna show you
my old building.

852
00:49:43,358 --> 00:49:44,558
It's gone.

853
00:49:45,438 --> 00:49:49,148
54 St. Mark's Place
used to be here.

854
00:49:50,858 --> 00:49:54,548
Gone.
[laughing]

855
00:49:54,548 --> 00:49:57,548
Absolutely
and completely gone.

856
00:49:57,548 --> 00:49:59,659
[Shirley] When we
returned from Rome,

857
00:49:59,659 --> 00:50:02,160
we found an apartment
on St. Mark's Place

858
00:50:02,160 --> 00:50:04,920
where we stayed
for 18 years.

859
00:50:04,920 --> 00:50:09,930
And then, we bought
this apartment 30 years ago.

860
00:50:11,550 --> 00:50:13,140
[Glaser] What we have
on the walls here

861
00:50:13,140 --> 00:50:15,690
are my first purchase
in the realm of art,

862
00:50:15,690 --> 00:50:17,741
which was a
Picasso lithograph,

863
00:50:17,741 --> 00:50:22,770
magnificent one,
when he was influenced by Ang,

864
00:50:22,770 --> 00:50:28,685
and an odd painting of a man
on a fantastically armored horse

865
00:50:28,685 --> 00:50:31,597
that I bought while
we were living in Rome

866
00:50:31,597 --> 00:50:33,687
in a flea market
for two dollars

867
00:50:33,687 --> 00:50:35,801
that was
covered over with

868
00:50:35,801 --> 00:50:38,211
a crudely drawn cowboy
on horseback.

869
00:50:38,211 --> 00:50:40,494
I took it up to the house
and I told Shirley,

870
00:50:40,494 --> 00:50:44,692
"We have something under this,
and I think it might be Uccello."

871
00:50:44,692 --> 00:50:47,201
So I cleaned it
with turpentine,

872
00:50:47,201 --> 00:50:53,300
because I saw that the painting underneath
was in egg tempera,

873
00:50:53,300 --> 00:50:56,682
and this extraordinary
figure emerged.

874
00:50:56,682 --> 00:50:59,082
Maybe 10 years later,
I was looking at a book

875
00:50:59,082 --> 00:51:03,322
of Jacopo Bellini's
and I found the exact drawing.

876
00:51:03,322 --> 00:51:09,272
Whether it's Bellini or not is arguable,
but we like to think it is.

877
00:51:09,272 --> 00:51:11,142
[♪]

878
00:51:11,142 --> 00:51:13,462
[Shirley] Of all of the things
that we've collected,

879
00:51:13,462 --> 00:51:17,284
the African has lasted
longer and deeper.

880
00:51:17,284 --> 00:51:20,304
[♪]

881
00:51:20,304 --> 00:51:25,384
[Glaser] In African culture,
the word for "good"

882
00:51:25,384 --> 00:51:30,993
and the word for "beautiful"
are identical, which is--

883
00:51:30,993 --> 00:51:35,223
that link to the notion
of beauty and good,

884
00:51:35,223 --> 00:51:37,183
which we sort of
skirt about,

885
00:51:37,183 --> 00:51:40,183
is actually explicit
in African culture.

886
00:51:41,563 --> 00:51:44,954
[Shirley] One of my friends said
that it made her very uncomfortable,

887
00:51:44,954 --> 00:51:47,332
having all these
stare at her.

888
00:51:47,332 --> 00:51:50,025
They don't make me
uncomfortable at all.

889
00:51:51,215 --> 00:51:52,534
They're my friends.

890
00:51:52,534 --> 00:51:56,475
[Glaser] When we come home,
we feel as though we're at a party.

891
00:51:58,655 --> 00:52:01,855
I've done any number of children's books
with my wife Shirley

892
00:52:01,855 --> 00:52:06,006
and that's always been
an interesting back-and-forth process.

893
00:52:06,006 --> 00:52:07,500
At the end,
I always felt

894
00:52:07,500 --> 00:52:12,336
that the conversation made for a
much better product

895
00:52:12,336 --> 00:52:16,806
than I could have done
with a more compliant partner.

896
00:52:17,516 --> 00:52:19,204
The first year
we were married,

897
00:52:19,204 --> 00:52:23,745
we started working on a children's book
called <i>If Apples Had Teeth.</i>

898
00:52:23,745 --> 00:52:26,347
We enjoyed
that experience so much

899
00:52:26,347 --> 00:52:29,216
that 40 years later,
we did another one.

900
00:52:29,216 --> 00:52:31,386
[both laughing]

901
00:52:31,386 --> 00:52:34,846
At any rate,
that was <i>The Alphazeds.</i>

902
00:52:43,136 --> 00:52:45,154
We helped in the
color palette;

903
00:52:45,154 --> 00:52:49,199
we designed the basic logo
in all their communications;

904
00:52:49,199 --> 00:52:51,298
we designed
the landings.

905
00:52:55,188 --> 00:53:01,245
Oh, this is a wall made of steel
but gilded in copper,

906
00:53:01,245 --> 00:53:04,368
and it reflects all the light coming in
through the windows,

907
00:53:04,368 --> 00:53:07,827
and then at night,
has very different characteristics.

908
00:53:07,827 --> 00:53:12,108
It's basically based on the
Tibetan cloud drawings that I discovered,

909
00:53:12,108 --> 00:53:17,779
and then rolled so that the forms
would open up all along the way.

910
00:53:17,779 --> 00:53:20,878
We had no idea what it was
gonna look like until it was installed.

911
00:53:21,798 --> 00:53:23,780
That's a very
different character.

912
00:53:23,780 --> 00:53:26,170
Woman: Very beautiful.
Very mysterious.

913
00:53:26,170 --> 00:53:27,450
Glaser: That's right.

914
00:53:28,580 --> 00:53:29,839
This opportunity
was great

915
00:53:29,839 --> 00:53:35,536
to actually learn more about Tibet,
particularly in the Himalayas.

916
00:53:35,536 --> 00:53:38,897
I mean, my interest
has always been

917
00:53:38,897 --> 00:53:42,809
not about the differences in art,
but their commonalities,

918
00:53:42,809 --> 00:53:45,844
and what you find is,
whatever you've learned

919
00:53:45,844 --> 00:53:48,349
goes into the
next project.

920
00:53:48,349 --> 00:53:52,535
So I don't look at these so much
as being separate things

921
00:53:52,535 --> 00:53:55,505
but rather as
a kind of continuum.

922
00:53:56,965 --> 00:54:02,681
I've always had an interest,
at least, as most people do,

923
00:54:02,681 --> 00:54:06,759
in what is called
a spiritual side of life.

924
00:54:06,759 --> 00:54:10,441
I mean, that intersection
between religion and belief,

925
00:54:10,441 --> 00:54:15,982
and making art,
and a sense of community,

926
00:54:15,982 --> 00:54:18,722
and all those things
that are involved,

927
00:54:19,652 --> 00:54:23,042
a departure from
the material world.

928
00:54:23,042 --> 00:54:29,133
All of that has shaped
the kind of interest,

929
00:54:29,133 --> 00:54:33,182
um, even though it hasn't
coalesced into hard belief.

930
00:54:33,912 --> 00:54:36,233
I think you have to
hold your beliefs lightly.

931
00:54:37,243 --> 00:54:39,601
Lang: Unexpected pleasure.

932
00:54:39,601 --> 00:54:41,521
Glaser: Peter,
you know George Lang.

933
00:54:41,521 --> 00:54:42,334
Lang: I do.

934
00:54:42,334 --> 00:54:48,625
About, uh, 1990 or so,
my friend and partner, Ronald Lauder,

935
00:54:48,625 --> 00:54:53,454
decided to buy something
extraordinary in Budapest,

936
00:54:53,454 --> 00:54:57,825
this incredible restaurant complex
called Gundel.

937
00:54:57,825 --> 00:55:01,625
And the first thing was, you know,
what's going to be the logo?

938
00:55:01,625 --> 00:55:05,184
And of course, the first thought
I had was Milton.

939
00:55:05,184 --> 00:55:08,874
And I found a letter
and the menu

940
00:55:08,874 --> 00:55:14,036
and a couple of other things
from the beginning of the century

941
00:55:14,036 --> 00:55:17,435
and it had
a elephant on it.

942
00:55:17,435 --> 00:55:22,485
And Milton, about two weeks later,
made a presentation.

943
00:55:22,485 --> 00:55:25,205
[♪]

944
00:55:25,205 --> 00:55:29,631
Amazingly, Milton,
without knowing anything about it,

945
00:55:29,631 --> 00:55:33,088
came up with the same logo
which was there 100 years ago.

946
00:55:33,088 --> 00:55:39,018
[♪]

947
00:55:39,021 --> 00:55:41,105
Milton has two things.

948
00:55:41,875 --> 00:55:49,005
He's able to put together
the technical equipment

949
00:55:49,005 --> 00:55:51,685
of creating things,
actually making it,

950
00:55:51,685 --> 00:55:54,197
knowing what you
have to worry about,

951
00:55:54,197 --> 00:56:01,126
and something else, spirit,
which comes from heaven knows where.

952
00:56:01,126 --> 00:56:04,346
[♪ dramatic orchestra finale ♪]

953
00:56:04,346 --> 00:56:06,116
[Vanden Heuvel] When
you're sitting with Milton,

954
00:56:06,116 --> 00:56:09,797
you have one of the
graphic geniuses of,

955
00:56:09,797 --> 00:56:12,438
not only the United States,
but of the world in my view.

956
00:56:12,438 --> 00:56:16,107
So I have to admit that in those
first few meetings many years ago--

957
00:56:16,107 --> 00:56:22,218
I mean, I've been working closely
with Milton since '85.

958
00:56:22,218 --> 00:56:26,046
He's intimidating.
He can be intimidating because

959
00:56:26,046 --> 00:56:30,188
it's the breath of an intellect,
allied with a vision.

960
00:56:30,188 --> 00:56:34,782
And so in those first few meetings,
was I a partner in that?

961
00:56:34,782 --> 00:56:35,723
Probably not.

962
00:56:35,723 --> 00:56:39,873
I was more a disciple and a student,
and one remains that,

963
00:56:39,873 --> 00:56:41,584
but what becomes
clear with Milton

964
00:56:41,584 --> 00:56:46,335
is that there is a sweetness there,
and there is a humanity,

965
00:56:46,335 --> 00:56:51,249
and there is a spirit
of wanting to be of help

966
00:56:51,249 --> 00:56:54,519
in bringing your ideas
and your message

967
00:56:54,519 --> 00:56:57,839
with more power
to a broader audience.

968
00:56:57,839 --> 00:57:03,033
So it kind of melts away
the fear factor,

969
00:57:03,033 --> 00:57:06,248
which is something that Milton's
always working against anyway.

970
00:57:06,248 --> 00:57:10,920
He and I've had long talks
about the importance of fighting fear,

971
00:57:10,920 --> 00:57:12,780
which is so prevalent
in these times.

972
00:57:13,780 --> 00:57:15,851
He has a great sense
of the nation's history

973
00:57:15,851 --> 00:57:18,851
and its place
in our culture and politics,

974
00:57:18,851 --> 00:57:21,241
and so he has that
in the back of his mind

975
00:57:21,241 --> 00:57:25,370
that the redesign
be in sync with that spirit.

976
00:57:25,370 --> 00:57:27,571
And I think
the great designers

977
00:57:27,571 --> 00:57:30,500
have that sense of
continuity and change,

978
00:57:30,500 --> 00:57:33,201
and Milton has that as
an abiding vision.

979
00:57:33,201 --> 00:57:38,111
He's so articulate,
so there's a great kind of dynamism

980
00:57:38,111 --> 00:57:41,231
between the visual product
he'll show you

981
00:57:41,231 --> 00:57:43,121
and as
he explains it.

982
00:57:43,121 --> 00:57:44,797
And those meetings
are wonderful.

983
00:57:44,797 --> 00:57:48,382
Occasionally, he'll email a note,
which is also great to get,

984
00:57:48,382 --> 00:57:54,732
but to hear him
explain the vision is priceless.

985
00:57:54,732 --> 00:57:56,262
[chuckling]

986
00:57:56,262 --> 00:57:59,802
[Bernard] For a while now, he's wanted
to work with people that he likes.

987
00:57:59,802 --> 00:58:03,132
He's always had that feeling, but--
but I think, at times,

988
00:58:03,132 --> 00:58:06,073
he did things that,
you know, were necessary.

989
00:58:06,073 --> 00:58:08,302
Glaser: When I was younger,
I could do anything.

990
00:58:08,302 --> 00:58:12,063
Peter: Yeah, you told me this was
an evolving problem and an evolving--

991
00:58:12,074 --> 00:58:16,022
[Glaser] I could do anything.
I could make a fruit pie outta shit.

992
00:58:16,022 --> 00:58:18,224
I mean, there was nothing
I wouldn't--

993
00:58:18,224 --> 00:58:21,183
Because I felt, geez,
I can learn something doing this.

994
00:58:21,183 --> 00:58:24,721
Now, I realize,
I can do very little with anyone

995
00:58:24,721 --> 00:58:27,184
where I don't
feel sympathetic.

996
00:58:27,830 --> 00:58:29,625
[Glaser] There were two guys
who came to see me

997
00:58:29,625 --> 00:58:32,430
about 15 years ago,
Tom Potter and Steve Hindy.

998
00:58:32,430 --> 00:58:34,701
It was a time at the beginning
of the microbreweries,

999
00:58:34,701 --> 00:58:36,780
and they wanted to call it
the Brooklyn Eagle Beer,

1000
00:58:36,780 --> 00:58:38,491
and I said,
"The first thing I can tell you

1001
00:58:38,491 --> 00:58:42,233
"is since you can basically own
the entire burrow, call it Brooklyn.

1002
00:58:42,233 --> 00:58:45,983
"You have an extraordinary
resonance and history."

1003
00:58:45,983 --> 00:58:48,783
[Hindy] I had a very difficult time
meeting this guy.

1004
00:58:48,783 --> 00:58:54,588
The first time I called his office,
his secretary, Eva,

1005
00:58:54,588 --> 00:58:58,554
basically told me to get lost.
She said, uh--

1006
00:58:58,554 --> 00:58:59,823
[Glaser] Can't believe
this story.

1007
00:58:59,823 --> 00:59:01,393
[Hindy] "Do you
know who Milton is?"

1008
00:59:01,393 --> 00:59:03,236
And I said, "Yeah,
I hear he's pretty good.

1009
00:59:03,236 --> 00:59:04,593
"I'd like to talk to him."

1010
00:59:04,593 --> 00:59:05,443
And she said,
"Wait,

1011
00:59:05,443 --> 00:59:07,833
"he doesn't just talk to
anyone who calls here."

1012
00:59:07,833 --> 00:59:08,929
Uh, and so--

1013
00:59:08,929 --> 00:59:11,975
Glaser: Well, we did get a lot of
crank calls during that period, I mean.

1014
00:59:11,975 --> 00:59:14,741
[Hindy] It, uh, sort of
spurred me on,

1015
00:59:14,741 --> 00:59:18,876
so I started calling there every day
and badgering Eva.

1016
00:59:18,876 --> 00:59:20,646
One day 
she said to me,

1017
00:59:20,646 --> 00:59:22,184
"You're not gonna give up,
are you?"

1018
00:59:22,184 --> 00:59:24,526
And I said, "No, I want to
talk to Milton Glaser."

1019
00:59:24,526 --> 00:59:27,596
She said, "Okay, here he is."
Put him on the phone.

1020
00:59:27,596 --> 00:59:31,025
So I kinda blurted out my idea
about starting a Brooklyn Brewery,

1021
00:59:31,025 --> 00:59:34,016
and Milton said,
"Wow, that sounds like fun.

1022
00:59:34,016 --> 00:59:36,016
"Why don't you come in?
We'll talk."

1023
00:59:36,016 --> 00:59:37,346
[chuckling]

1024
00:59:37,346 --> 00:59:39,689
[Glaser] Amusing story.

1025
00:59:39,689 --> 00:59:44,625
And also why I don't seem to
get as much work as I'd like.

1026
00:59:44,625 --> 00:59:46,415
[both chuckling]

1027
00:59:47,275 --> 00:59:48,705
Glaser: Well,
I have to admit,

1028
00:59:48,705 --> 00:59:50,555
I've been at so many
startups that have failed,

1029
00:59:50,555 --> 00:59:53,285
I had no idea
we would get this far.

1030
00:59:53,285 --> 00:59:54,317
Hindy: Yeah.

1031
00:59:54,317 --> 00:59:56,496
Glaser: And the company
is in such wonderful shape.

1032
00:59:56,496 --> 00:59:58,546
Hindy: And now we're looking
to build a brewery, uh,

1033
00:59:58,546 --> 00:59:59,756
twice as big
as this.

1034
00:59:59,756 --> 01:00:00,637
Glaser:
That's fantastic.

1035
01:00:00,637 --> 01:00:02,127
[Hindy]
Be the next step.

1036
01:00:02,127 --> 01:00:04,936
[Glaser] This was a first:
a bottle that people think

1037
01:00:04,936 --> 01:00:07,270
is a reference
to the Brooklyn Dodgers,

1038
01:00:07,270 --> 01:00:11,318
but there was no letter form
that looked this way.

1039
01:00:11,318 --> 01:00:13,958
They just had the words
"Brooklyn Dodgers" in normal type.

1040
01:00:13,958 --> 01:00:15,797
However, people
are so convinced

1041
01:00:15,797 --> 01:00:18,656
that it has some reference
to the uniform

1042
01:00:18,656 --> 01:00:21,668
that the association
is convincing.

1043
01:00:22,628 --> 01:00:24,098
Hindy: I think
it's time for a beer.

1044
01:00:24,098 --> 01:00:26,238
Glaser: Ah,
that's a good idea.

1045
01:00:26,238 --> 01:00:28,159
[chuckling]

1046
01:00:28,429 --> 01:00:31,518
[Glaser] What we like--
what <i>I</i> like--

1047
01:00:31,518 --> 01:00:36,118
is basically working on
all levels of the culture

1048
01:00:36,118 --> 01:00:38,389
from the high
to the low

1049
01:00:38,389 --> 01:00:40,339
because the idea
behind all of that

1050
01:00:40,339 --> 01:00:42,329
is that
whatever the level is,

1051
01:00:42,329 --> 01:00:45,045
excellence can always exist
on that level.

1052
01:00:45,545 --> 01:00:49,055
So, a good ham
and cheese sandwich

1053
01:00:49,055 --> 01:00:51,859
is really every bit as good
as a crème brûlée.

1054
01:00:52,019 --> 01:00:53,769
In fact, it's better
than a crème brûlée,

1055
01:00:53,769 --> 01:00:57,209
but each form
requires its own level

1056
01:00:57,209 --> 01:00:58,889
of intelligence
and passion.

1057
01:00:58,889 --> 01:01:05,369
[♪]

1058
01:01:07,489 --> 01:01:12,237
[Glaser] The idea was
to do a mural above this entryway,

1059
01:01:12,237 --> 01:01:15,310
and I saw that the lights
that they had chosen

1060
01:01:15,960 --> 01:01:18,270
create this
series of arches.

1061
01:01:18,270 --> 01:01:22,988
Any mural you put up there would,
in effect, be destroyed by the lights,

1062
01:01:22,988 --> 01:01:28,075
so I used that arch thematically
so that would look as though

1063
01:01:28,075 --> 01:01:30,383
you had actually
planned on it.

1064
01:01:30,383 --> 01:01:36,100
The race starts slowly,
but the designs on these wheels

1065
01:01:36,100 --> 01:01:40,649
were based on an idea
that Marcel Duchamp had.

1066
01:01:40,649 --> 01:01:42,698
He made these
rotoscopes.

1067
01:01:42,698 --> 01:01:45,421
If you look at them,
the objects and the forms

1068
01:01:45,421 --> 01:01:48,621
seem to be moving independently
of one another,

1069
01:01:48,621 --> 01:01:56,222
and as they accelerate,
they sort of change their meaning.

1070
01:02:02,242 --> 01:02:05,993
[Kenny] what happens in the end
is that the people,

1071
01:02:05,993 --> 01:02:08,493
the faculty, the staff,
the students,

1072
01:02:08,493 --> 01:02:13,710
are profoundly, profoundly affected
by what happens in the design.

1073
01:02:13,710 --> 01:02:17,362
In the end, the most important audience,
I think, is internal.

1074
01:02:17,362 --> 01:02:19,924
The way they feel
about the place

1075
01:02:19,924 --> 01:02:23,004
makes a difference
in their learning experience.

1076
01:02:24,924 --> 01:02:26,854
This September,
Stony Brook

1077
01:02:26,854 --> 01:02:32,584
will take over Southampton Campus
from Long Island University.

1078
01:02:32,584 --> 01:02:38,054
[Glaser] So, we're thinking of creating
a kind of austere, sustainable place,

1079
01:02:38,054 --> 01:02:43,426
but it's some combination of
the WPA, the Peace Corps, the Kibbutz.

1080
01:02:43,426 --> 01:02:46,585
Well, here are some of the signs
we're playing with for the new campus,

1081
01:02:46,585 --> 01:02:49,658
and we introduce this idea
of a little wind power,

1082
01:02:49,658 --> 01:02:52,481
the whirligig,
to get the idea

1083
01:02:52,481 --> 01:02:55,611
that we're concerned about
sustainable energy.

1084
01:02:55,611 --> 01:02:57,098
[Kenny] It happens
you and I've

1085
01:02:57,098 --> 01:03:02,120
been talking forever
about ecological sustainability

1086
01:03:02,120 --> 01:03:05,359
and how we get over
to this generation of students.

1087
01:03:05,359 --> 01:03:07,316
It has to be not just
what they get in class

1088
01:03:07,316 --> 01:03:10,452
but the way their
entire experience happens.

1089
01:03:10,452 --> 01:03:15,768
And that's why your thinking about it
is shaping of what we're doing.

1090
01:03:15,768 --> 01:03:20,560
You're not just about pictures;
you're not just about designs.

1091
01:03:20,560 --> 01:03:23,361
You're about ideas;
you're about words.

1092
01:03:23,361 --> 01:03:25,511
[Glaser] We need that
in the world these days.

1093
01:03:25,511 --> 01:03:31,101
We need a more generous view
of what life and education is about.

1094
01:03:31,101 --> 01:03:34,572
People are so anxious to sacrifice
for what they believe in now

1095
01:03:34,572 --> 01:03:37,127
that it's the right moment
for this sort of thing.

1096
01:03:37,127 --> 01:03:40,832
But potentially at least,
it could be the biggest,

1097
01:03:40,832 --> 01:03:42,661
in terms of
its impact,

1098
01:03:42,661 --> 01:03:45,010
meaning the biggest thing
that I've ever worked on.

1099
01:03:49,490 --> 01:03:52,283
We are in a show at
the School of Visual Arts

1100
01:03:52,283 --> 01:03:55,381
that is based on a book
I did with Mirko Ilic

1101
01:03:55,381 --> 01:03:57,790
called
<i>The Design of Dissent.</i>

1102
01:03:58,840 --> 01:04:00,133
More than
anything else,

1103
01:04:00,133 --> 01:04:02,662
what you feel is the
energy of commitment.

1104
01:04:02,662 --> 01:04:05,602
People really care about
things that are in the air.

1105
01:04:05,602 --> 01:04:09,873
It's so different from the persuasion
of most advertising that you see

1106
01:04:09,873 --> 01:04:12,038
that, uh,
it's refreshing.

1107
01:04:12,718 --> 01:04:15,123
In New York,
the design profession

1108
01:04:15,123 --> 01:04:18,589
is mostly used by
commercial purposes.

1109
01:04:18,589 --> 01:04:20,224
That's what pays it.

1110
01:04:20,224 --> 01:04:22,421
There is art
you do free

1111
01:04:22,421 --> 01:04:25,401
and there is design
you do for money.

1112
01:04:25,401 --> 01:04:27,725
He has come to
the conclusion

1113
01:04:27,725 --> 01:04:31,064
that essentially the job
of advertising is to lie.

1114
01:04:31,064 --> 01:04:36,738
[Glaser] The saddest thing is that,
when people experience television

1115
01:04:36,738 --> 01:04:39,009
and know that
it's lying--

1116
01:04:39,009 --> 01:04:42,822
let's just say, or misrepresenting
the advertising that you see--

1117
01:04:42,822 --> 01:04:44,952
they'll still go out
and buy the product.

1118
01:04:44,952 --> 01:04:49,425
And I think this has
a real correlation between

1119
01:04:49,425 --> 01:04:52,085
what has happened
in American politics.

1120
01:04:52,755 --> 01:04:58,932
A couple weeks ago, I had a roll
of vinyl bags in my closet

1121
01:04:58,932 --> 01:05:02,934
that someone had bought for us
at a dollar store.

1122
01:05:03,694 --> 01:05:08,895
And it was extremely
cheap plastic,

1123
01:05:08,895 --> 01:05:12,707
so that when you pulled it
out of the box, it tore,

1124
01:05:12,707 --> 01:05:15,566
and you could just puncture it
with your hand.

1125
01:05:16,216 --> 01:05:19,390
I said, "These are the worst,
stupid, flimsiest thing!"

1126
01:05:20,030 --> 01:05:24,040
And I saw that the name of it was
Super Tough Vinyl Bags.

1127
01:05:24,040 --> 01:05:26,529
[audience laughing]

1128
01:05:26,529 --> 01:05:27,779
Just like [indistinct].

1129
01:05:27,779 --> 01:05:29,706
[audience laughing]

1130
01:05:29,706 --> 01:05:32,926
One thing we have learned
is that all you have to do

1131
01:05:32,926 --> 01:05:35,396
is repeat it
often enough, right?

1132
01:05:35,396 --> 01:05:37,116
I know when I was growing up
in the Bronx--

1133
01:05:37,116 --> 01:05:39,327
I was born in 1929,
and I grew up in

1134
01:05:39,327 --> 01:05:42,007
what was basically
a left-wing neighborhood in the Bronx.

1135
01:05:42,007 --> 01:05:44,067
It was called Little Moscow
at the time.

1136
01:05:44,067 --> 01:05:45,097
[audience chuckling]

1137
01:05:45,097 --> 01:05:48,477
[insdistinct], which was basically
a kind of socialist enclave,

1138
01:05:48,477 --> 01:05:50,536
by people who'd
come from Europe

1139
01:05:50,536 --> 01:05:54,301
and who were convinced
that they could invent a better life.

1140
01:05:54,301 --> 01:05:57,618
And everybody was a political activist
because that's what you did.

1141
01:05:57,618 --> 01:05:59,001
You woke up
in the morning,

1142
01:05:59,001 --> 01:06:00,828
and you went out
and you distributed leaflets.

1143
01:06:00,828 --> 01:06:02,623
That was just normal.

1144
01:06:02,623 --> 01:06:04,380
[audience laughing]

1145
01:06:04,380 --> 01:06:14,002
The accomplishment of the '60s
made us so full of naïve enthusiasm

1146
01:06:14,002 --> 01:06:16,630
about the fact that
love could conquer all

1147
01:06:16,630 --> 01:06:20,002
and that all
you had to do is love,

1148
01:06:20,002 --> 01:06:23,940
and the
Civil Rights Movement

1149
01:06:23,940 --> 01:06:25,230
and the
Anti-War Movement,

1150
01:06:25,230 --> 01:06:31,605
and all these assertions of the young
saying it's all possible

1151
01:06:32,925 --> 01:06:37,460
was an extraordinary
moment in time.

1152
01:06:37,460 --> 01:06:41,799
And here we are
at a moment in time

1153
01:06:41,799 --> 01:06:45,545
where all of that view
has been swept away.

1154
01:06:46,305 --> 01:06:48,479
The triumph,
I would say,

1155
01:06:48,479 --> 01:06:55,933
of a dark vision of meanness,
of stupidity, of arrogance.

1156
01:06:56,693 --> 01:07:00,165
That seems to be so pervasive
all over the world, not only--

1157
01:07:01,215 --> 01:07:02,630
not only in
Washington.

1158
01:07:03,650 --> 01:07:08,482
But you realize things change,
and not necessarily for the better.

1159
01:07:09,002 --> 01:07:13,141
Then it's simply a condition
that you have to play your part,

1160
01:07:13,141 --> 01:07:16,342
and your part is to be
on this side of the line.

1161
01:07:16,782 --> 01:07:18,932
I mean,
that's my view of it.

1162
01:07:18,932 --> 01:07:21,912
[Bernard] Milton is now
starting projects

1163
01:07:21,912 --> 01:07:23,472
and he'll take them
to someone

1164
01:07:23,472 --> 01:07:25,693
the way he did
buttons for the nation.

1165
01:07:25,693 --> 01:07:27,403
The nation didn't
commission buttons.

1166
01:07:27,403 --> 01:07:30,373
Milton said,
"You've gotta start doing this."

1167
01:07:30,373 --> 01:07:32,103
[Vanden Heuvel] What he
has done beyond,

1168
01:07:32,103 --> 01:07:33,855
above and beyond
the pro bono

1169
01:07:34,805 --> 01:07:36,513
work with the design
of the magazine

1170
01:07:36,513 --> 01:07:38,844
is in these last years
he's had these great ideas,

1171
01:07:38,844 --> 01:07:41,473
and he comes--
came to us with this button series.

1172
01:07:41,473 --> 01:07:44,636
He will send them, you know,
in the middle of the night or--

1173
01:07:44,636 --> 01:07:46,904
and they're so much a part of
what he's thinking about.

1174
01:07:47,504 --> 01:07:48,715
Facts not fear.

1175
01:07:48,715 --> 01:07:51,015
That is so much part of
what Milton believes:

1176
01:07:51,015 --> 01:07:53,635
the danger of a kind of
Messianic belief system--

1177
01:07:53,635 --> 01:07:56,636
much more important
to inform and enlighten.

1178
01:07:56,636 --> 01:07:58,396
So, Milton has sent us
a slew of buttons

1179
01:07:58,396 --> 01:07:59,524
over these
last few years

1180
01:07:59,524 --> 01:08:02,385
which we publish in the magazine
and our readers devour,

1181
01:08:02,385 --> 01:08:05,037
and we take them to student conferences
and students love them,

1182
01:08:05,037 --> 01:08:07,073
and it's always wonderful
to see people wearing them--

1183
01:08:07,073 --> 01:08:10,635
not just <i>Nation</i> readers,
but they move around.

1184
01:08:10,635 --> 01:08:12,583
[Bernard] If you look at
any of his recent work,

1185
01:08:12,583 --> 01:08:15,409
he's increasingly thinking
about world issues

1186
01:08:15,409 --> 01:08:18,093
and wants to
design in a way

1187
01:08:18,093 --> 01:08:20,337
that can help the causes
that he's interested in.

1188
01:08:20,337 --> 01:08:22,906
[Heller] What he brings
to this conversation

1189
01:08:22,906 --> 01:08:25,506
is more than idealism;
it's true eloquence.

1190
01:08:25,506 --> 01:08:27,656
It's more than a
doctrinaire philosophy;

1191
01:08:27,656 --> 01:08:29,437
it's a humanist
philosophy.

1192
01:08:29,437 --> 01:08:31,837
And after all these years
of practicing,

1193
01:08:31,837 --> 01:08:34,837
of seeing design
go up and down,

1194
01:08:34,837 --> 01:08:39,181
graphic design go up and down
as a practice of importance,

1195
01:08:39,181 --> 01:08:43,936
he wants to imbue it
with a sense of a real gravitas.

1196
01:08:44,976 --> 01:08:46,697
[Glaser] Starting four or
five years ago,

1197
01:08:46,697 --> 01:08:50,868
I realized I didn't have
the right to be indifferent

1198
01:08:50,868 --> 01:08:53,506
or to ignore
what was going on.

1199
01:08:53,506 --> 01:08:58,407
And since I have some talent
for communicating ideas,

1200
01:08:58,407 --> 01:09:00,876
I thought I might
use that talent

1201
01:09:00,876 --> 01:09:04,577
or else feel like a real jerk
for the rest of my life.

1202
01:09:06,127 --> 01:09:09,049
[Tabibian] Milton, he's got
qualities and characteristics

1203
01:09:09,049 --> 01:09:11,878
that are both great
and contradictory.

1204
01:09:12,648 --> 01:09:16,125
He and his wife lead
a perfectly private life.

1205
01:09:16,125 --> 01:09:17,125
[Glaser] How are ya?

1206
01:09:17,125 --> 01:09:19,256
[♪]

1207
01:09:19,256 --> 01:09:21,669
[Tabibian] He has a house
in Woodstock, New York.

1208
01:09:21,669 --> 01:09:26,287
He reproduced
Claude Monet's studio.

1209
01:09:26,287 --> 01:09:29,230
So he's very, very private
in his personal life,

1210
01:09:29,230 --> 01:09:32,445
but he's the most
public man in New York.

1211
01:09:32,445 --> 01:09:34,556
But public
for the public good.

1212
01:09:34,556 --> 01:09:36,477
[Glaser]
It isn't possible for me

1213
01:09:36,477 --> 01:09:39,621
to separate my work
from my life in general,

1214
01:09:39,621 --> 01:09:42,721
and certainly not my life
from this city.

1215
01:09:42,721 --> 01:09:47,479
Here you have these
extraordinary strands of differences,

1216
01:09:47,479 --> 01:09:54,186
existing simultaneously and,
in some curious way, advantageously.

1217
01:09:54,186 --> 01:09:57,057
So it's all of the people
who live here.

1218
01:09:57,057 --> 01:09:58,999
There really is
nothing like it.

1219
01:09:58,999 --> 01:10:03,572
I mean, it does-- New York does the job
that America's supposed to do.

1220
01:10:03,572 --> 01:10:08,200
It really takes everybody
and not only accepts them

1221
01:10:08,200 --> 01:10:11,671
but responds to them,
and that's a big deal.

1222
01:10:11,671 --> 01:10:14,047
I mean, if you come to New York
from another place,

1223
01:10:14,047 --> 01:10:17,387
nobody forces you
to become a New Yorker

1224
01:10:17,387 --> 01:10:21,630
in terms of an attitude
or a spirit.

1225
01:10:21,630 --> 01:10:25,002
It-- the city is
enormously accommodating.

1226
01:10:25,002 --> 01:10:28,041
Not to mention
the extraordinary gift

1227
01:10:28,041 --> 01:10:30,491
that the city gives you
of education.

1228
01:10:30,491 --> 01:10:34,222
This is the best town in the world
to be educated.

1229
01:10:34,222 --> 01:10:37,302
The number of schools,
the amount of free events,

1230
01:10:37,882 --> 01:10:40,638
lectures,
classes--

1231
01:10:40,638 --> 01:10:43,653
I mean,
no place on earth!

1232
01:10:43,653 --> 01:10:46,874
You can study anything
that you want,

1233
01:10:46,874 --> 01:10:49,654
any time,
anywhere in this city.

1234
01:10:49,654 --> 01:10:53,392
All of these opportunities--
being able to go to the Metropolitan,

1235
01:10:53,392 --> 01:10:55,974
being able to study at
the Art Students League,

1236
01:10:55,974 --> 01:10:58,522
being able to go to
a superb high school

1237
01:10:58,522 --> 01:11:00,272
like the High School
of Music & Art--

1238
01:11:00,832 --> 01:11:05,443
all of that sort of contributed
to my well-being,

1239
01:11:05,443 --> 01:11:08,645
to my understanding,
to my history, to my passion.

1240
01:11:08,645 --> 01:11:10,542
It's not possible.

1241
01:11:10,542 --> 01:11:14,746
It would not have been possible for me
to have been what I am

1242
01:11:14,746 --> 01:11:17,588
and to have done what I've done
any place else on earth.

1243
01:11:18,628 --> 01:11:21,935
This is the town
that made it possible.

1244
01:11:21,942 --> 01:11:28,342
[♪]