1 00:00:00,827 --> 00:00:03,888 I was recently traveling in the Highlands of New Guinea, 2 00:00:03,912 --> 00:00:06,406 and I was talking with a man who had three wives. 3 00:00:06,905 --> 00:00:09,994 I asked him, "How many wives would you like to have?" 4 00:00:10,340 --> 00:00:11,774 And there was this long pause, 5 00:00:11,798 --> 00:00:12,993 and I thought to myself, 6 00:00:13,017 --> 00:00:14,568 "Is he going to say five? 7 00:00:14,592 --> 00:00:16,019 Is going to say 10? 8 00:00:16,043 --> 00:00:17,885 Is he going to say 25?" 9 00:00:17,909 --> 00:00:19,071 And he leaned towards me 10 00:00:19,095 --> 00:00:20,605 and he whispered, "None." 11 00:00:20,629 --> 00:00:22,809 (Laughter) 12 00:00:23,514 --> 00:00:27,889 Eighty-six percent of human societies permit a man to have several wives: 13 00:00:27,913 --> 00:00:29,064 polygeny. 14 00:00:29,088 --> 00:00:31,197 But in the vast majority of these cultures, 15 00:00:31,221 --> 00:00:35,519 only about five or ten percent of men actually do have several wives. 16 00:00:35,543 --> 00:00:37,890 Having several partners can be a toothache. 17 00:00:37,914 --> 00:00:41,034 In fact, co-wives can fight with each other, 18 00:00:41,058 --> 00:00:43,995 sometimes they can even poison each other's children. 19 00:00:44,455 --> 00:00:47,106 And you've got to have a lot of cows, a lot of goats, 20 00:00:47,130 --> 00:00:49,095 a lot of money, a lot of land, 21 00:00:49,119 --> 00:00:50,655 in order to build a harem. 22 00:00:51,017 --> 00:00:53,392 We are a pair-bonding species. 23 00:00:53,416 --> 00:00:56,954 Ninety-seven percent of mammals do not pair up to rear their young; 24 00:00:56,978 --> 00:00:58,806 human beings do. 25 00:00:58,830 --> 00:01:00,980 I'm not suggesting that we're not -- 26 00:01:01,004 --> 00:01:04,151 that we're necessarily sexually faithful to our partners. 27 00:01:04,175 --> 00:01:06,923 I've looked at adultery in 42 cultures, 28 00:01:06,947 --> 00:01:09,382 I understand, actually, some of the genetics of it, 29 00:01:09,406 --> 00:01:11,254 and some of the brain circuitry of it. 30 00:01:11,278 --> 00:01:13,221 It's very common around the world, 31 00:01:13,245 --> 00:01:15,182 but we are built to love. 32 00:01:15,716 --> 00:01:19,032 How is technology changing love? 33 00:01:19,515 --> 00:01:21,987 I'm going to say almost not at all. 34 00:01:22,744 --> 00:01:24,098 I study the brain. 35 00:01:24,122 --> 00:01:27,852 I and my colleagues have put over 100 people into a brain scanner -- 36 00:01:27,876 --> 00:01:30,883 people who had just fallen happily in love, 37 00:01:30,907 --> 00:01:32,938 people who had just been rejected in love 38 00:01:32,962 --> 00:01:34,835 and people who are in love long-term. 39 00:01:34,859 --> 00:01:38,046 And it is possible to remain "in love" long-term. 40 00:01:38,543 --> 00:01:40,449 And I've long ago maintained 41 00:01:40,473 --> 00:01:43,498 that we've evolved three distinctly different brain systems 42 00:01:43,522 --> 00:01:45,359 for mating and reproduction: 43 00:01:45,383 --> 00:01:46,535 sex drive, 44 00:01:46,559 --> 00:01:48,495 feelings of intense romantic love 45 00:01:48,519 --> 00:01:52,265 and feelings of deep cosmic attachment to a long-term partner. 46 00:01:52,289 --> 00:01:54,725 And together, these three brain systems -- 47 00:01:54,749 --> 00:01:57,237 with many other parts of the brain -- 48 00:01:57,261 --> 00:02:02,387 orchestrate our sexual, our romantic and our family lives. 49 00:02:02,411 --> 00:02:04,804 But they lie way below the cortex, 50 00:02:04,828 --> 00:02:09,049 way below the limbic system where we feel our emotions -- 51 00:02:09,073 --> 00:02:10,360 generate our emotions. 52 00:02:10,384 --> 00:02:15,199 They lie in the most primitive parts of the brain linked with energy, 53 00:02:15,223 --> 00:02:20,479 focus, craving, motivation, wanting and drive. 54 00:02:20,503 --> 00:02:21,656 In this case, 55 00:02:21,680 --> 00:02:24,211 the drive to win life's greatest prize: 56 00:02:24,235 --> 00:02:25,669 a mating partner. 57 00:02:25,693 --> 00:02:30,210 They evolved over 4.4 million years ago among our first ancestors, 58 00:02:30,234 --> 00:02:31,903 and they're not going to change 59 00:02:31,927 --> 00:02:34,696 if you sweep left of right on Tinder. 60 00:02:34,720 --> 00:02:36,267 (Laughter) 61 00:02:36,291 --> 00:02:38,737 (Applause) 62 00:02:38,761 --> 00:02:43,376 There's no question that technology is changing the way we court: 63 00:02:43,400 --> 00:02:45,324 emailing, texting, 64 00:02:45,348 --> 00:02:47,323 emojis to express your emotions, 65 00:02:47,347 --> 00:02:48,611 sexting, 66 00:02:48,635 --> 00:02:51,071 "liking" a photograph, selfies ... 67 00:02:51,095 --> 00:02:55,207 We're seeing new rules and taboos for how to court. 68 00:02:55,936 --> 00:02:57,923 But, you know -- 69 00:02:57,947 --> 00:03:01,091 is this actually dramatically changing love? 70 00:03:01,730 --> 00:03:04,094 What about the late 1940s, 71 00:03:04,118 --> 00:03:06,679 when the automobile became very popular 72 00:03:06,703 --> 00:03:09,049 and we suddenly had rolling bedrooms? 73 00:03:09,073 --> 00:03:10,791 (Laughter) 74 00:03:10,815 --> 00:03:15,053 How about the introduction of the birth control pill? 75 00:03:15,491 --> 00:03:20,788 Unchained from the great threat of pregnancy and social ruin, 76 00:03:20,812 --> 00:03:25,236 women could finally express their primitive and primal sexuality. 77 00:03:25,724 --> 00:03:28,741 Even dating sites are not changing love. 78 00:03:28,765 --> 00:03:31,323 I'm chief scientific advisor to Match.com, 79 00:03:31,347 --> 00:03:33,027 I've been it for 11 years. 80 00:03:33,051 --> 00:03:35,055 I keep telling them and they agree with me, 81 00:03:35,079 --> 00:03:36,618 that these are not dating sites, 82 00:03:36,642 --> 00:03:38,655 they are introducing sites. 83 00:03:39,017 --> 00:03:41,280 When you sit down in a bar, 84 00:03:41,304 --> 00:03:42,888 in a coffee house, 85 00:03:42,912 --> 00:03:44,268 on a park bench, 86 00:03:44,292 --> 00:03:49,297 your ancient brain snaps into action like a sleeping cat awakened, 87 00:03:49,321 --> 00:03:50,620 and you smile 88 00:03:50,644 --> 00:03:51,802 and laugh 89 00:03:51,826 --> 00:03:53,008 and listen 90 00:03:53,032 --> 00:03:57,905 and parade the way our ancestors did 100,000 years ago. 91 00:03:58,424 --> 00:04:00,377 We can give you various people -- 92 00:04:00,401 --> 00:04:01,966 all the dating sites can -- 93 00:04:01,990 --> 00:04:05,903 but the only real algorithm is your own human brain. 94 00:04:05,927 --> 00:04:08,499 Technology is not going to change that. 95 00:04:09,041 --> 00:04:13,685 Technology is also not going to change who you choose to love. 96 00:04:13,709 --> 00:04:16,405 I study the biology of personality, 97 00:04:16,429 --> 00:04:17,641 and I've come to believe 98 00:04:17,665 --> 00:04:21,948 that we've evolved four very broad styles of thinking and behaving, 99 00:04:21,972 --> 00:04:23,802 linked with the dopamine, serotonin, 100 00:04:23,826 --> 00:04:26,004 testosterone and estrogen systems. 101 00:04:26,358 --> 00:04:30,511 So I created a questionnaire directly from brain science 102 00:04:30,535 --> 00:04:33,677 to measure the degree to which you express the traits -- 103 00:04:33,701 --> 00:04:35,455 the constellation of traits -- 104 00:04:35,479 --> 00:04:38,487 linked with each of these four brain systems. 105 00:04:38,829 --> 00:04:43,697 I then put that questionnaire on various match dating sites 106 00:04:43,721 --> 00:04:45,363 in 40 countries, 107 00:04:45,969 --> 00:04:49,859 Fourteen million or more people have now taken the questionnaire, 108 00:04:49,883 --> 00:04:53,808 and I've been able to watch who's naturally drawn to whom. 109 00:04:54,462 --> 00:04:55,973 And as it turns out, 110 00:04:55,997 --> 00:04:58,646 those who were very expressive of the dopamine system -- 111 00:04:58,670 --> 00:05:01,725 they tend to be curious, creative, spontaneous, energetic, 112 00:05:01,749 --> 00:05:05,200 I would imagine there's an awful lot of people like that in this room -- 113 00:05:05,224 --> 00:05:07,152 they're drawn to people like themselves. 114 00:05:07,176 --> 00:05:10,559 Curious, creative people need people like themselves. 115 00:05:10,583 --> 00:05:13,221 People who are very expressive of the serotonin system 116 00:05:13,245 --> 00:05:16,124 tend to be traditional, conventional, they follow the rules, 117 00:05:16,148 --> 00:05:18,026 they respect authority, 118 00:05:18,050 --> 00:05:19,427 they tend to be religious -- 119 00:05:19,451 --> 00:05:21,436 religiosity is in the serotonin system -- 120 00:05:21,460 --> 00:05:24,797 and traditional people go for traditional people. 121 00:05:24,821 --> 00:05:27,485 In that way, similarity attracts. 122 00:05:27,509 --> 00:05:29,731 In the other two cases, opposites attract. 123 00:05:29,755 --> 00:05:32,052 People very expressive of the testosterone system 124 00:05:32,076 --> 00:05:35,999 tend to be analytical, logical, direct, decisive, 125 00:05:36,023 --> 00:05:37,505 and they go for their opposite: 126 00:05:37,529 --> 00:05:39,782 they go for somebody who's high estrogen, 127 00:05:39,806 --> 00:05:42,048 somebody who's got very good verbal skills 128 00:05:42,072 --> 00:05:43,314 and people skills, 129 00:05:43,338 --> 00:05:44,786 who's very intuitive 130 00:05:44,810 --> 00:05:48,123 and who's very nurturing and emotionally expressive. 131 00:05:48,519 --> 00:05:51,091 We have natural patterns of mate choice. 132 00:05:51,468 --> 00:05:56,524 Modern technology is not going to change who we choose to love. 133 00:05:57,488 --> 00:06:00,041 But technology is producing one modern trend 134 00:06:00,065 --> 00:06:01,801 that I find particularly important. 135 00:06:02,151 --> 00:06:05,839 It's associated with the concept of paradox of choice. 136 00:06:06,372 --> 00:06:07,826 Millions of years, 137 00:06:07,850 --> 00:06:10,117 we lived in little hunting and gathering groups. 138 00:06:10,141 --> 00:06:12,667 You didn't have the opportunity to choose 139 00:06:12,691 --> 00:06:15,801 between 1,000 people on a dating site. 140 00:06:16,268 --> 00:06:18,250 In fact, I've been studying this recently 141 00:06:18,274 --> 00:06:21,386 and I actually think there's some sort of sweet spot in the brain; 142 00:06:21,410 --> 00:06:25,472 I don't know what it is, but apparently, from reading a lot of the data, 143 00:06:25,496 --> 00:06:30,647 we can embrace about five to nine alternatives, and after that, 144 00:06:30,671 --> 00:06:33,891 you get into what academics call "cognitive overload," 145 00:06:33,915 --> 00:06:35,716 and you don't choose any. 146 00:06:36,175 --> 00:06:39,321 So I've come to think that due to this cognitive overload, 147 00:06:39,345 --> 00:06:42,656 we're ushering in a new form of courtship 148 00:06:42,680 --> 00:06:44,625 that I call, "slow love." 149 00:06:45,219 --> 00:06:48,766 I arrived at this during my work with Match.com. 150 00:06:49,400 --> 00:06:51,081 Every year for the last six years, 151 00:06:51,105 --> 00:06:53,798 we've done a study called "Singles in America." 152 00:06:53,822 --> 00:06:55,630 We don't poll the Match population, 153 00:06:55,654 --> 00:06:57,614 we poll the American population. 154 00:06:57,638 --> 00:07:00,607 We use 5,000-plus people, 155 00:07:00,631 --> 00:07:04,528 a representative sample of Americans based on the US census. 156 00:07:04,552 --> 00:07:07,444 We've got data now on over 30,000 people, 157 00:07:07,468 --> 00:07:09,935 and every single year, 158 00:07:09,959 --> 00:07:12,485 I see some of the same patterns. 159 00:07:12,509 --> 00:07:15,288 Every single year when I ask the question, 160 00:07:15,312 --> 00:07:18,075 over 50 percent of people who have had a one-night stand -- 161 00:07:18,099 --> 00:07:20,766 not necessarily last year, but in their lives -- 162 00:07:20,790 --> 00:07:23,063 50 percent have had a friends with benefits 163 00:07:23,087 --> 00:07:24,577 during the course of their lives, 164 00:07:24,601 --> 00:07:28,286 and over 50 percent have lived with a person long-term 165 00:07:28,310 --> 00:07:29,746 before marrying. 166 00:07:29,770 --> 00:07:31,972 Americans think that this is reckless. 167 00:07:31,996 --> 00:07:34,915 I have doubted that for a long time; 168 00:07:34,939 --> 00:07:36,831 the patterns are too strong, 169 00:07:36,855 --> 00:07:39,583 there's got to be some Darwinian explanation -- 170 00:07:39,607 --> 00:07:41,933 not that many people are crazy -- 171 00:07:41,957 --> 00:07:45,845 and so I stumbled then on a statistic that really came home to me. 172 00:07:46,267 --> 00:07:48,866 It was a very interesting academic article 173 00:07:48,890 --> 00:07:53,903 in which I found that 67 percent of singles in America today 174 00:07:53,927 --> 00:07:56,341 who are living long-term with somebody, 175 00:07:56,365 --> 00:08:00,452 have not yet married because they are terrified of divorce. 176 00:08:00,476 --> 00:08:03,889 They're terrified of the social, legal, emotional, 177 00:08:03,913 --> 00:08:06,782 economic consequences of divorce. 178 00:08:06,806 --> 00:08:10,564 So I came to realize that I don't think that this is recklessness, 179 00:08:10,588 --> 00:08:12,395 I think that it's caution. 180 00:08:12,791 --> 00:08:17,813 Today's singles want to know every single thing about a partner 181 00:08:17,837 --> 00:08:19,466 before they wed. 182 00:08:19,490 --> 00:08:21,419 You learn a lot between the sheets: 183 00:08:21,443 --> 00:08:23,955 not only about how somebody makes love, 184 00:08:23,979 --> 00:08:25,349 but whether they're kind, 185 00:08:25,373 --> 00:08:26,715 whether they can listen, 186 00:08:26,739 --> 00:08:27,911 and at my age, 187 00:08:27,935 --> 00:08:29,713 whether they've got a sense of humor. 188 00:08:29,737 --> 00:08:31,140 (Laughter) 189 00:08:31,164 --> 00:08:34,618 And in an age where we have too many choices, 190 00:08:35,075 --> 00:08:38,337 and we have very little fear of pregnancy and disease, 191 00:08:38,361 --> 00:08:42,069 and we've got no feeling of shame for sex before marriage, 192 00:08:42,093 --> 00:08:45,956 I think people are taking their time to love. 193 00:08:46,408 --> 00:08:48,059 And actually what's happening is, 194 00:08:48,083 --> 00:08:51,944 what we're seeing is a real expansion of the precommitment stage 195 00:08:51,968 --> 00:08:53,704 before you tie the knot. 196 00:08:54,034 --> 00:08:56,760 Where marriage used to be the beginning of a relationship, 197 00:08:56,784 --> 00:08:58,453 now it's the finale. 198 00:08:59,413 --> 00:09:01,153 But the human brain -- 199 00:09:01,177 --> 00:09:03,186 (Laughter) 200 00:09:03,210 --> 00:09:05,024 The human brain always triumphs, 201 00:09:05,048 --> 00:09:06,943 and indeed, in the United States today, 202 00:09:06,967 --> 00:09:10,465 86 percent of Americans will marry by age 49, 203 00:09:10,489 --> 00:09:14,035 and even in cultures around the world where they're not marrying as often, 204 00:09:14,059 --> 00:09:17,334 they are settling down eventually with a long-term partner. 205 00:09:17,358 --> 00:09:19,193 So it began to occur to me -- 206 00:09:19,217 --> 00:09:23,784 during this long extension of the precommitment stage, 207 00:09:23,808 --> 00:09:26,981 if you can get rid of bad relationships before you marry, 208 00:09:27,005 --> 00:09:29,452 maybe we're going to see more happy marriages. 209 00:09:29,838 --> 00:09:34,713 So I did a study of 1100 married people in America -- 210 00:09:34,737 --> 00:09:36,464 not on Match.com, of course -- 211 00:09:36,488 --> 00:09:38,604 and I asked them a lot of questions, 212 00:09:38,628 --> 00:09:40,135 but one of the questions was, 213 00:09:40,159 --> 00:09:44,731 "Would you re-marry the person you're currently married to?" 214 00:09:44,755 --> 00:09:47,620 And 81 percent said, "Yes." 215 00:09:48,613 --> 00:09:49,800 In fact, 216 00:09:49,824 --> 00:09:55,092 the greatest change in modern romance and family life 217 00:09:55,116 --> 00:09:56,516 is not technology. 218 00:09:57,070 --> 00:09:58,564 It's not even slow love. 219 00:09:59,047 --> 00:10:01,998 It's actually women piling into the job market 220 00:10:02,022 --> 00:10:03,445 in cultures around the world. 221 00:10:03,767 --> 00:10:04,996 For millions of years, 222 00:10:05,020 --> 00:10:07,990 our ancestors lived in little hunting and gathering groups. 223 00:10:08,014 --> 00:10:10,919 Women commuted to work to gather their fruits and vegetables. 224 00:10:10,943 --> 00:10:14,453 They came home with 60 to 80 percent of the evening meal. 225 00:10:14,477 --> 00:10:17,170 The double-income family was the rule. 226 00:10:17,194 --> 00:10:21,135 And women were regarded as just as economically, socially 227 00:10:21,159 --> 00:10:24,274 and sexually powerful as men. 228 00:10:24,298 --> 00:10:27,400 Then the environment changed some 10,000 years ago, 229 00:10:27,424 --> 00:10:29,653 we began to settle down on the farm, 230 00:10:29,677 --> 00:10:31,292 and both men and women, 231 00:10:31,316 --> 00:10:32,868 they became obliged, really, 232 00:10:32,892 --> 00:10:34,464 to marry the right person, 233 00:10:34,488 --> 00:10:35,918 from the right background, 234 00:10:35,942 --> 00:10:37,245 from the right religion 235 00:10:37,269 --> 00:10:40,807 and from the right kin and social and political connections. 236 00:10:40,831 --> 00:10:42,425 Men's jobs became more important: 237 00:10:42,449 --> 00:10:45,187 they had to move the rocks, fell the trees, plow the land. 238 00:10:45,211 --> 00:10:47,356 They brought the produce off to local markets 239 00:10:47,380 --> 00:10:49,672 and came home with the equivalent of money. 240 00:10:49,696 --> 00:10:51,242 And along with this, 241 00:10:51,266 --> 00:10:54,243 we see a rise of a host of beliefs. 242 00:10:54,267 --> 00:10:56,449 The belief of virginity at marriage, 243 00:10:56,473 --> 00:10:59,416 arranged marriages -- strictly arranged marriages -- 244 00:10:59,440 --> 00:11:01,967 the belief that the man is the head of the household, 245 00:11:01,991 --> 00:11:04,230 that the wife's place is in the home, 246 00:11:04,254 --> 00:11:05,407 and most important: 247 00:11:05,431 --> 00:11:08,562 honor thy husband, and 'til death do us part. 248 00:11:08,586 --> 00:11:10,308 These are gone. 249 00:11:10,332 --> 00:11:12,881 They are going, and in many places, 250 00:11:12,905 --> 00:11:14,293 they are gone. 251 00:11:14,317 --> 00:11:17,740 We are right now in a marriage revolution. 252 00:11:17,764 --> 00:11:22,479 We are shedding 10,000 years of our farming tradition 253 00:11:22,503 --> 00:11:28,129 and moving forward towards egalitarian relationships between the sexes -- 254 00:11:28,153 --> 00:11:32,968 something that I regard as highly compatible with the ancient human spirit. 255 00:11:33,562 --> 00:11:35,265 I'm not a Pollyanna; 256 00:11:35,289 --> 00:11:37,049 there's a great deal to cry about. 257 00:11:37,073 --> 00:11:38,781 I studied divorce in 80 cultures, 258 00:11:38,805 --> 00:11:40,979 I studied, as I say, adultery in many -- 259 00:11:41,003 --> 00:11:42,819 there's a whole pile of problems. 260 00:11:42,843 --> 00:11:46,035 As William Butler Yates, the poet, once said, 261 00:11:46,059 --> 00:11:48,524 "Love is the crooked thing." 262 00:11:49,131 --> 00:11:51,921 I would add, "Nobody gets out alive." 263 00:11:51,945 --> 00:11:53,040 (Laughter) 264 00:11:53,064 --> 00:11:54,531 We all have problems. 265 00:11:54,925 --> 00:11:58,529 But in fact, I think the poet Randall Jerrell really sums it up best. 266 00:11:58,553 --> 00:12:03,552 He said, "The dark, uneasy world of family life -- 267 00:12:03,576 --> 00:12:08,094 where the greatest can fail, and the humblest succeed." 268 00:12:08,779 --> 00:12:10,666 But I will leave you with this: 269 00:12:10,690 --> 00:12:13,418 love and attachment will prevail, 270 00:12:13,442 --> 00:12:15,975 technology cannot change it. 271 00:12:15,999 --> 00:12:17,837 And I will conclude by saying 272 00:12:17,861 --> 00:12:23,107 any understanding of human relationships must take into account 273 00:12:23,131 --> 00:12:27,356 one the most powerful determinants of human behavior: 274 00:12:27,380 --> 00:12:28,598 the unquenchable, 275 00:12:29,217 --> 00:12:30,382 adaptable, 276 00:12:30,789 --> 00:12:33,795 and primordial human drive to love. 277 00:12:33,819 --> 00:12:34,971 Thank you. 278 00:12:34,995 --> 00:12:38,017 (Applause) 279 00:12:39,915 --> 00:12:42,296 Kelly Stoetzel: Thank you so much for that, Helen. 280 00:12:42,320 --> 00:12:44,629 As you know, there's another speaker here with us 281 00:12:44,653 --> 00:12:46,203 that works in your same field. 282 00:12:46,227 --> 00:12:48,658 She comes at it from a different perspective. 283 00:12:48,682 --> 00:12:53,319 Esther Perel is a psychotherapist who works with couples. 284 00:12:53,749 --> 00:12:55,042 You study data, 285 00:12:55,066 --> 00:12:57,566 Esther studies the stories the couples tell her 286 00:12:57,590 --> 00:12:59,618 when they come to her for help. 287 00:12:59,642 --> 00:13:01,366 Let's have her join us on the stage. 288 00:13:01,390 --> 00:13:02,541 Esther? 289 00:13:02,565 --> 00:13:05,696 (Applause) 290 00:13:10,249 --> 00:13:11,495 So Esther, 291 00:13:11,519 --> 00:13:13,791 when you were watching Helen's talk, 292 00:13:13,815 --> 00:13:16,437 was there any part of it that resonated with you 293 00:13:16,461 --> 00:13:18,103 through the lens of your own work 294 00:13:18,127 --> 00:13:19,712 that you'd like the comment on? 295 00:13:20,062 --> 00:13:23,641 Esther Perel: It's interesting, because on the one hand, 296 00:13:23,665 --> 00:13:27,494 the need for love is ubiquitous and universal, 297 00:13:27,965 --> 00:13:29,929 but the way we love -- 298 00:13:29,953 --> 00:13:31,483 the meaning we make out of it -- 299 00:13:31,507 --> 00:13:33,832 the rules that govern our relationships, I think, 300 00:13:33,856 --> 00:13:35,882 are changing fundamentally. 301 00:13:35,906 --> 00:13:37,673 We come from a model 302 00:13:37,697 --> 00:13:42,294 that, until now, was primarily regulated around duty and obligation, 303 00:13:42,318 --> 00:13:44,715 the needs of the collective and loyalty. 304 00:13:44,739 --> 00:13:45,919 And we have shifted it 305 00:13:45,943 --> 00:13:50,273 to a model of free choice and individual rights, 306 00:13:50,297 --> 00:13:53,373 and self-fulfillment and happiness. 307 00:13:53,397 --> 00:13:55,717 And so, that was the first thing I thought, 308 00:13:55,741 --> 00:13:57,509 that the need doesn't change, 309 00:13:57,533 --> 00:14:01,341 but the context and the way we regulate these relationships 310 00:14:01,365 --> 00:14:02,643 changes a lot. 311 00:14:02,667 --> 00:14:04,507 On the paradox of choice -- 312 00:14:06,682 --> 00:14:09,009 you know, on the one hand we relish the novelty 313 00:14:09,033 --> 00:14:10,625 and the playfulness, I think, 314 00:14:10,649 --> 00:14:13,360 to be able to have so many options. 315 00:14:13,384 --> 00:14:14,745 And at the same time, 316 00:14:14,769 --> 00:14:17,183 as you talk about this cognitive overload, 317 00:14:17,207 --> 00:14:20,655 I see many, many people who ... 318 00:14:22,391 --> 00:14:26,497 who dread the uncertainty and self-doubt 319 00:14:26,521 --> 00:14:29,070 that comes with this massa of choice, 320 00:14:29,094 --> 00:14:31,353 creating a case of "FOMO" 321 00:14:31,377 --> 00:14:33,019 and then leading us -- 322 00:14:33,043 --> 00:14:36,358 FOMO, fear of missed opportunity, or fear of missing out -- 323 00:14:36,382 --> 00:14:39,340 it's like, "How do I know I have found 'the one' -- 324 00:14:39,364 --> 00:14:40,536 the right one?" 325 00:14:40,560 --> 00:14:44,243 So we've created what I call this thing of "stable ambiguity." 326 00:14:44,600 --> 00:14:48,305 Stable ambiguity is when you are too afraid to be alone, 327 00:14:48,329 --> 00:14:52,364 but also not really willing to engage in intimacy-building. 328 00:14:52,388 --> 00:14:57,682 It's a set of tactics that kind of prolong the uncertainty of a relationship 329 00:14:57,706 --> 00:15:00,313 but also the uncertainty of the breakup. 330 00:15:00,337 --> 00:15:03,319 So, here on the internet you have three major ones. 331 00:15:03,343 --> 00:15:05,664 One is icing and simmering, 332 00:15:05,688 --> 00:15:08,563 which are great stalling tactics 333 00:15:08,587 --> 00:15:11,064 that offer a kind of holding pattern 334 00:15:11,088 --> 00:15:14,882 that emphasizes the undefined nature of a relationship, 335 00:15:14,906 --> 00:15:19,013 but at the same time gives you enough of a comforting consistency 336 00:15:19,037 --> 00:15:21,794 and enough freedom of the undefined boundaries. 337 00:15:21,818 --> 00:15:23,644 (Laughter) 338 00:15:24,070 --> 00:15:25,240 Yeah? 339 00:15:25,264 --> 00:15:26,812 And then comes ghosting. 340 00:15:26,836 --> 00:15:28,808 And ghosting is basically, 341 00:15:28,832 --> 00:15:33,352 you know, you disappear from this massa of texts on the spot, 342 00:15:33,376 --> 00:15:37,161 and you don't have to deal with the pain that you inflict on another 343 00:15:37,185 --> 00:15:39,783 because you're making it invisible even to yourself. 344 00:15:39,807 --> 00:15:40,994 (Laughter) 345 00:15:41,018 --> 00:15:42,176 Yeah? 346 00:15:42,200 --> 00:15:46,937 So I was thinking -- these words came up for me as I was listening to you, 347 00:15:46,961 --> 00:15:52,124 like how a vocabulary also creates a reality, 348 00:15:52,148 --> 00:15:53,703 and at the same time, 349 00:15:53,727 --> 00:15:55,411 that's my question to you: 350 00:15:55,435 --> 00:15:58,375 Do you think when the context changes, 351 00:15:58,399 --> 00:16:02,039 it still means that the nature of love remains the same? 352 00:16:02,063 --> 00:16:06,161 You study the brain and I study people's relationships and stories, 353 00:16:06,185 --> 00:16:10,171 so I think it's everything you say, plus. 354 00:16:10,691 --> 00:16:11,965 But I don't always know 355 00:16:11,989 --> 00:16:14,593 the degree to which a changing context -- 356 00:16:15,451 --> 00:16:17,981 does it at some point begin to change -- 357 00:16:18,005 --> 00:16:20,618 if the meaning changes, does it change the need, 358 00:16:20,642 --> 00:16:23,105 or is the need clear of the entire context? 359 00:16:23,797 --> 00:16:25,217 HF: Wow! Well -- 360 00:16:25,241 --> 00:16:27,672 (Laughter) 361 00:16:27,696 --> 00:16:30,871 (Applause) 362 00:16:30,895 --> 00:16:33,863 Well, I've got three points here, right? 363 00:16:34,736 --> 00:16:36,562 Well, first of all, to your first one: 364 00:16:36,586 --> 00:16:40,179 there's no question that we've changed, that we now want a person to love, 365 00:16:40,203 --> 00:16:43,048 and for thousands of years, we had to marry the right person 366 00:16:43,072 --> 00:16:45,343 from the right background and right connection. 367 00:16:45,367 --> 00:16:48,718 And in fact, in my studies of 5,000 people every year, 368 00:16:48,742 --> 00:16:50,868 I ask them, "What are you looking for?" 369 00:16:50,892 --> 00:16:53,650 And every single year over 97 percent say -- 370 00:16:53,674 --> 00:16:54,884 EP: And this grows -- 371 00:16:54,908 --> 00:16:56,068 HF: Well, no. 372 00:16:56,092 --> 00:16:59,415 The basic thing is over 97 percent of people 373 00:16:59,439 --> 00:17:01,530 want somebody that respects them, 374 00:17:01,554 --> 00:17:03,842 somebody that they can trust and confide in, 375 00:17:03,866 --> 00:17:05,522 somebody who makes them laugh, 376 00:17:05,546 --> 00:17:07,428 somebody who makes enough time for them 377 00:17:07,452 --> 00:17:11,449 and somebody who they find physically attractive. 378 00:17:11,473 --> 00:17:12,756 That never changes. 379 00:17:12,780 --> 00:17:15,958 And there's certainly -- you know, there's two parts -- 380 00:17:15,982 --> 00:17:17,562 EP: But you know how I call that? 381 00:17:17,586 --> 00:17:19,836 That's not what people used to say -- 382 00:17:19,860 --> 00:17:21,090 HF: That's exactly right. 383 00:17:21,114 --> 00:17:24,413 EP: They said they wanted somebody with whom they have companionship, 384 00:17:24,437 --> 00:17:25,728 economic support, children. 385 00:17:25,752 --> 00:17:28,338 We went from a production economy to a service economy. 386 00:17:28,362 --> 00:17:29,371 (Laughter) 387 00:17:29,395 --> 00:17:32,390 We did it in the larger culture and we're doing it in marriage. 388 00:17:32,414 --> 00:17:33,572 HF: Right, there's no question about it. 389 00:17:33,596 --> 00:17:37,486 But it's interesting, the millennials actually want to be very good parents, 390 00:17:37,510 --> 00:17:42,026 whereas the generation above them wants to have a very fine marriage 391 00:17:42,050 --> 00:17:44,272 but is not as focused on being a good parent. 392 00:17:44,296 --> 00:17:46,379 You see all of these nuances. 393 00:17:46,403 --> 00:17:48,959 There's two basic parts of personality: 394 00:17:48,983 --> 00:17:52,558 there's your culture -- everything you grew up to do and believe and say -- 395 00:17:52,582 --> 00:17:53,981 and there's your temperament. 396 00:17:54,005 --> 00:17:56,832 Basically, what I've been talking about is your temperament. 397 00:17:56,856 --> 00:18:00,174 And that temperament is certainly going to change with changing times 398 00:18:00,198 --> 00:18:01,499 and changing beliefs. 399 00:18:01,891 --> 00:18:05,038 And in terms of the paradox of choice, 400 00:18:05,062 --> 00:18:07,469 there's no question about it that this is a pickle. 401 00:18:07,493 --> 00:18:10,357 There were millions of years where you found that sweet boy 402 00:18:10,381 --> 00:18:12,106 at the other side of the water hole, 403 00:18:12,130 --> 00:18:13,281 and you went for it. 404 00:18:13,305 --> 00:18:14,456 EP: Yes, but you -- 405 00:18:14,480 --> 00:18:16,149 HF: I do want to say one more thing. 406 00:18:16,173 --> 00:18:18,785 The bottom line is, in hunting and gathering societies, 407 00:18:18,809 --> 00:18:22,490 they tended to have two or three partners during the course of their lives. 408 00:18:22,514 --> 00:18:23,672 They weren't square! 409 00:18:23,696 --> 00:18:25,352 And I'm not suggesting that we do, 410 00:18:25,376 --> 00:18:29,352 but the bottom line is, we've always had alternatives. 411 00:18:29,376 --> 00:18:30,855 Mankind is always -- 412 00:18:30,879 --> 00:18:34,071 in fact, the brain is well-built to what we call "equilibrate," 413 00:18:34,095 --> 00:18:35,246 to try and decide: 414 00:18:35,270 --> 00:18:37,704 Do I come, do I stay? Do I go, do I stay? 415 00:18:37,728 --> 00:18:39,276 What are the opportunities here? 416 00:18:39,300 --> 00:18:40,545 How do I handle this there? 417 00:18:40,569 --> 00:18:43,530 And so I think we're seeing another play out of that now. 418 00:18:44,052 --> 00:18:45,675 KS: Well, thank you both so much. 419 00:18:45,699 --> 00:18:48,905 I think you're going to have a million dinner partners for tonight. 420 00:18:48,929 --> 00:18:50,908 (Applause) 421 00:18:50,932 --> 00:18:52,113 Thank you, thank you.