WEBVTT 00:00:00.963 --> 00:00:04.087 I was recently traveling in the Highlands of New Guinea, 00:00:04.087 --> 00:00:06.719 and I was talking with a man who had three wives. 00:00:06.953 --> 00:00:08.051 And I asked him, 00:00:08.051 --> 00:00:10.300 "How many wives would you like to have?" 00:00:10.539 --> 00:00:11.996 And there was this long pause, 00:00:11.996 --> 00:00:13.158 and I thought to myself, 00:00:13.158 --> 00:00:14.769 "Is he going to say five? 00:00:14.769 --> 00:00:16.179 Is going to say 10? 00:00:16.179 --> 00:00:18.044 Is he going to say 25?" 00:00:18.044 --> 00:00:19.189 And he leaned towards me 00:00:19.189 --> 00:00:21.073 and he whispered, "None." NOTE Paragraph 00:00:21.073 --> 00:00:22.439 (Laughter) NOTE Paragraph 00:00:23.626 --> 00:00:28.232 86 percent of human societies permit a man to have several wives: 00:00:28.232 --> 00:00:29.286 polygeny. 00:00:29.286 --> 00:00:31.332 But in the vast majority of these cultures, 00:00:31.332 --> 00:00:35.355 only about five or 10 percent of men actually do have several wives. 00:00:35.678 --> 00:00:38.109 Having several partners can be a toothache. 00:00:38.109 --> 00:00:41.613 In fact, co-wives can fight with each other, 00:00:41.613 --> 00:00:44.574 sometimes they can even poison each others' children. 00:00:44.574 --> 00:00:46.341 And you've got to have a lot of cows, 00:00:46.341 --> 00:00:47.356 a lot of goats, 00:00:47.356 --> 00:00:48.358 a lot of money, 00:00:48.358 --> 00:00:49.361 a lot of land, 00:00:49.361 --> 00:00:50.927 in order to build a harem. NOTE Paragraph 00:00:51.215 --> 00:00:53.551 We are a pair-bonding species. 00:00:53.551 --> 00:00:57.112 97 percent of mammals do not pair up to rear their young; 00:00:57.112 --> 00:00:58.994 human beings do. 00:00:58.994 --> 00:01:01.167 I'm not suggesting that we're not -- 00:01:01.167 --> 00:01:04.376 that we're necessarily sexually faithful to our partners. 00:01:04.376 --> 00:01:07.245 I've looked at adultery in 42 cultures, 00:01:07.245 --> 00:01:09.669 I [actually] understand some the genetics of it, 00:01:09.669 --> 00:01:11.497 and some of the brain circuitry of it. 00:01:11.497 --> 00:01:13.562 It's very common around the world, 00:01:13.562 --> 00:01:15.499 but we are built to love. NOTE Paragraph 00:01:15.907 --> 00:01:19.386 How is technology changing love? 00:01:19.690 --> 00:01:22.309 I'm going to say almost not at all. 00:01:22.911 --> 00:01:24.288 I study the brain. 00:01:24.288 --> 00:01:28.041 I and my colleagues have put over 100 people into a brain scanner -- 00:01:28.041 --> 00:01:31.287 people who had just fallen happily in love, 00:01:31.287 --> 00:01:33.234 people who had just been rejected in love 00:01:33.234 --> 00:01:35.160 and people who are in love long-term. 00:01:35.160 --> 00:01:38.176 And it is possible to remain "in love" long-term. 00:01:38.774 --> 00:01:40.703 And I've long ago maintained 00:01:40.703 --> 00:01:43.628 that we've evolved three distinctly different brain systems 00:01:43.628 --> 00:01:45.488 for mating and reproduction: 00:01:45.488 --> 00:01:46.674 sex drive, 00:01:46.674 --> 00:01:48.767 feelings of intense romantic love 00:01:48.767 --> 00:01:52.369 and feelings of deep cosmic attachment to a long-term partner. 00:01:52.369 --> 00:01:53.365 And together, 00:01:53.365 --> 00:01:54.934 these three brain systems -- 00:01:54.934 --> 00:01:57.445 with many other parts of the brain -- 00:01:57.445 --> 00:02:02.665 orchestrate our sexual, our romantic and our family lives. 00:02:02.665 --> 00:02:05.034 But they lie way below the cortex, 00:02:05.034 --> 00:02:09.185 way below the limbic system where we feel our emotions -- 00:02:09.185 --> 00:02:10.541 generate our emotions. 00:02:10.541 --> 00:02:15.319 They lie in the most primitive parts of the brain linked with energy, 00:02:15.319 --> 00:02:16.440 focus, 00:02:16.440 --> 00:02:17.440 craving, 00:02:17.440 --> 00:02:18.439 motivation, 00:02:18.439 --> 00:02:19.442 wanting 00:02:19.442 --> 00:02:20.733 and drive. 00:02:20.733 --> 00:02:21.875 In this case, 00:02:21.875 --> 00:02:24.507 the drive to win life's greatest prize: 00:02:24.507 --> 00:02:25.861 a mating partner. 00:02:25.861 --> 00:02:30.472 They evolved over 4.4 million years ago among our first ancestors, 00:02:30.472 --> 00:02:32.164 and they're not going to change 00:02:32.164 --> 00:02:35.041 if you sweep left of right on Tinder. NOTE Paragraph 00:02:35.041 --> 00:02:36.291 (Laughter) NOTE Paragraph 00:02:36.291 --> 00:02:38.270 (Applause) NOTE Paragraph 00:02:39.000 --> 00:02:43.511 There's no question that technology is changing the way we court: 00:02:43.511 --> 00:02:45.596 emailing, texting, 00:02:45.596 --> 00:02:47.594 emojis to express your emotions, 00:02:47.594 --> 00:02:48.802 sexting, 00:02:48.802 --> 00:02:50.159 "liking" a photograph, 00:02:50.159 --> 00:02:51.268 selfies, 00:02:51.268 --> 00:02:55.380 we're seeing new rules and taboos for how to court. 00:02:56.158 --> 00:02:58.242 But, you know -- 00:02:58.242 --> 00:03:01.337 is this actually dramatically changing love? 00:03:01.834 --> 00:03:04.399 What about the late 1940s, 00:03:04.399 --> 00:03:06.983 when the automobile became very popular 00:03:06.983 --> 00:03:09.352 and we suddenly had rolling bedrooms? NOTE Paragraph 00:03:09.352 --> 00:03:10.704 (Laughter) NOTE Paragraph 00:03:11.117 --> 00:03:15.768 How about the introduction of the birth control pill? 00:03:15.768 --> 00:03:21.196 Unchained from the great threat of pregnancy and social ruin, 00:03:21.196 --> 00:03:25.581 women could finally express their primitive and primal sexuality. NOTE Paragraph 00:03:25.867 --> 00:03:28.907 Even dating sites are not changing love. 00:03:28.907 --> 00:03:31.387 I'm chief scientific advisor to Match.com, 00:03:31.387 --> 00:03:33.117 I've been it for 11 years. 00:03:33.117 --> 00:03:34.167 I keep telling them -- 00:03:34.167 --> 00:03:35.361 and they agree with me -- 00:03:35.361 --> 00:03:36.911 that these are not dating sites, 00:03:36.911 --> 00:03:38.950 they are introducing sites. 00:03:39.224 --> 00:03:41.640 When you sit down in a bar, 00:03:41.640 --> 00:03:43.198 in a coffee house, 00:03:43.198 --> 00:03:44.646 on a park bench, 00:03:44.646 --> 00:03:49.615 your ancient brain snaps into action like a sleeping cat awakened, 00:03:49.615 --> 00:03:50.859 and you smile, 00:03:50.859 --> 00:03:51.939 and laugh, 00:03:51.939 --> 00:03:53.294 and listen 00:03:53.294 --> 00:03:58.218 and parade the way our ancestors did 100,000 years ago. NOTE Paragraph 00:03:58.218 --> 00:03:59.218 (Laughter) NOTE Paragraph 00:03:59.218 --> 00:04:00.797 We can give you various people -- 00:04:00.797 --> 00:04:02.233 all the dating sites can -- 00:04:02.233 --> 00:04:06.229 but the only real algorithm is your own human brain. 00:04:06.229 --> 00:04:08.801 Technology is not going to change that. NOTE Paragraph 00:04:09.169 --> 00:04:13.638 Technology is also not going to change who you choose to love. 00:04:13.836 --> 00:04:16.652 I study the biology of personality, 00:04:16.652 --> 00:04:17.887 and I've come to believe 00:04:17.887 --> 00:04:22.193 that we've evolved four very broad styles of thinking and behaving, 00:04:22.193 --> 00:04:23.393 linked with the dopamine, 00:04:23.393 --> 00:04:24.385 serotonin, 00:04:24.385 --> 00:04:26.509 testosterone and estrogen systems. 00:04:26.509 --> 00:04:30.615 So I created a questionnaire directly from brain science 00:04:30.615 --> 00:04:31.970 to measure the degree 00:04:31.970 --> 00:04:33.871 to which you express the traits -- 00:04:33.871 --> 00:04:35.648 the constellation of traits -- 00:04:35.648 --> 00:04:38.769 linked with each of these four brain systems. 00:04:39.139 --> 00:04:44.415 I then put that questionnaire on various match dating sites 00:04:44.415 --> 00:04:46.081 in 40 countries, 00:04:46.081 --> 00:04:50.239 14 million or more people have now taken the questionnaire, 00:04:50.239 --> 00:04:54.164 and I've been able to watch who's naturally drawn to whom. 00:04:54.629 --> 00:04:56.163 And as it turns out, 00:04:56.163 --> 00:04:58.806 those who were very expressive of the dopamine system -- 00:04:58.806 --> 00:05:01.885 they tend to be curious, creative, spontaneous, energetic, 00:05:01.885 --> 00:05:05.270 I would imagine there's an awful lot of people like that in this room -- 00:05:05.270 --> 00:05:07.241 they're drawn to people like themselves. 00:05:07.241 --> 00:05:10.506 Curious creative people need people like themselves. 00:05:10.766 --> 00:05:13.312 People who are very expressive of the seratonin system 00:05:13.312 --> 00:05:16.118 tend to be traditional, conventional, they follow the rules, 00:05:16.118 --> 00:05:18.050 they respect authority, 00:05:18.050 --> 00:05:19.386 they tend to be religious -- 00:05:19.386 --> 00:05:21.584 religiosity is in the serotonin system -- 00:05:21.584 --> 00:05:24.702 and traditional people go for traditional people. 00:05:25.040 --> 00:05:26.170 In that way, 00:05:26.170 --> 00:05:27.604 similarity attracts. 00:05:27.604 --> 00:05:28.796 In the other two cases, 00:05:28.796 --> 00:05:29.927 opposites attract. 00:05:29.927 --> 00:05:32.247 People very expressive of the testosterone system 00:05:32.247 --> 00:05:36.047 tend to be analytical, logical, direct, decisive, 00:05:36.047 --> 00:05:37.552 and they go for their opposite: 00:05:37.552 --> 00:05:39.878 they go for somebody who's high estrogen, 00:05:39.878 --> 00:05:42.143 somebody who's got very good verbal skills, 00:05:42.143 --> 00:05:43.495 and people skills, 00:05:43.495 --> 00:05:45.071 who's very intuitive 00:05:45.071 --> 00:05:48.382 and who's very nurturing and emotionally expressive. 00:05:48.639 --> 00:05:51.301 We have natural patterns of mate choice. 00:05:51.707 --> 00:05:56.763 Modern technology is not going to change who we choose to love. NOTE Paragraph 00:05:57.568 --> 00:06:00.237 But technology is producing one modern trend 00:06:00.237 --> 00:06:01.973 that I find particularly important. 00:06:02.295 --> 00:06:06.226 It's associated with the concept of paradox of choice. 00:06:06.531 --> 00:06:08.063 Millions of years, 00:06:08.063 --> 00:06:10.301 we lived in little hunting and gathering groups. 00:06:10.301 --> 00:06:15.876 You didn't have the opportunity to choose between 1,000 people on a dating site. 00:06:16.366 --> 00:06:18.317 In fact, I've been studying this recently 00:06:18.317 --> 00:06:21.410 and I actually think there's some sort of sweet spot in the brain, 00:06:21.410 --> 00:06:22.753 and I don't know what it is, 00:06:22.753 --> 00:06:23.848 but there's apparently, 00:06:23.848 --> 00:06:25.577 from reading a lot of the data -- 00:06:25.577 --> 00:06:29.858 we can embrace about five to nine alternatives, 00:06:29.858 --> 00:06:30.982 and after that, 00:06:30.982 --> 00:06:34.180 you get into what academics call "cognitive overload," 00:06:34.180 --> 00:06:35.981 and you don't choose any. NOTE Paragraph 00:06:36.406 --> 00:06:39.481 So I've come to think that due to this cognitive overload, 00:06:39.481 --> 00:06:42.904 we're ushering in a new form of courtship 00:06:42.904 --> 00:06:44.961 that I call, "slow love." 00:06:45.315 --> 00:06:48.862 I arrived at this during my work with Match.com. 00:06:49.543 --> 00:06:51.247 Every year for the last six years, 00:06:51.247 --> 00:06:53.672 we've done a study called "Singles in America." 00:06:54.021 --> 00:06:55.852 We don't poll the Match population, 00:06:55.852 --> 00:06:57.835 we poll the American population. 00:06:57.835 --> 00:07:00.921 We use 5,000 plus people, 00:07:00.921 --> 00:07:04.720 a representative sample of Americans based on the US census. NOTE Paragraph 00:07:04.720 --> 00:07:07.698 We've got data now on over 30,000 people 00:07:07.698 --> 00:07:10.150 and every single year, 00:07:10.150 --> 00:07:12.636 I see some of the same patterns. 00:07:12.636 --> 00:07:15.537 Every single year when I ask the question, 00:07:15.537 --> 00:07:18.295 over 50 percent of people who have had a one-night stand -- 00:07:18.295 --> 00:07:21.013 not necessarily last year but in their lives -- 00:07:21.013 --> 00:07:23.309 50 percent have had a friends with benefits 00:07:23.309 --> 00:07:24.914 during the course of their lives, 00:07:24.914 --> 00:07:28.485 and over 50 percent have lived with a person long-term 00:07:28.485 --> 00:07:29.826 before marrying. 00:07:30.050 --> 00:07:32.227 Americans think that this is reckless. 00:07:32.227 --> 00:07:35.106 I have doubted that for a long time; 00:07:35.106 --> 00:07:37.126 the patterns are too strong, 00:07:37.126 --> 00:07:39.806 there's got to be some Darwinian explanation -- 00:07:39.806 --> 00:07:42.232 not that many people are crazy -- 00:07:42.232 --> 00:07:46.027 and so I stumbled then on a statistic that really came home to me. 00:07:46.426 --> 00:07:49.048 It was a very interesting academic article 00:07:49.048 --> 00:07:54.084 in which I found that 67 percent of singles in America today 00:07:54.084 --> 00:07:56.521 who are living long-term with somebody, 00:07:56.521 --> 00:08:00.631 have not yet married because they are terrified of divorce. 00:08:00.631 --> 00:08:04.235 They're terrified of the social, legal, emotional, 00:08:04.235 --> 00:08:06.973 economic consequences of divorce. 00:08:06.973 --> 00:08:10.893 So I came to realize that I don't think that this is recklessness, 00:08:10.893 --> 00:08:12.778 I think that it's caution. 00:08:13.037 --> 00:08:17.901 Today's singles want to know every single thing about a partner 00:08:17.901 --> 00:08:19.732 before they wed. 00:08:19.732 --> 00:08:21.684 You learn a lot between the sheets: 00:08:21.684 --> 00:08:24.146 not only about how somebody makes love, 00:08:24.146 --> 00:08:25.587 but whether they're kind, 00:08:25.587 --> 00:08:26.905 whether they can listen, 00:08:26.905 --> 00:08:27.906 and at my age, 00:08:27.906 --> 00:08:29.707 whether they've got a sense of humor. NOTE Paragraph 00:08:29.707 --> 00:08:31.109 (Laughter) NOTE Paragraph 00:08:31.492 --> 00:08:35.409 And in an age where we have too many choices, 00:08:35.409 --> 00:08:38.694 and we have very little fear of pregnancy and disease, 00:08:38.694 --> 00:08:42.421 and we've got no feeling of shame for sex before marriage, 00:08:42.425 --> 00:08:46.266 I think people are taking their time to love. 00:08:46.559 --> 00:08:48.283 And actually what's happening is -- 00:08:48.283 --> 00:08:52.521 what we're seeing is a real expansion of the precommitment stage 00:08:52.521 --> 00:08:54.281 before you tie the knot. 00:08:54.281 --> 00:08:57.030 Where marriage used to be the beginning of a relationship, 00:08:57.030 --> 00:08:58.965 now it's the finale. 00:08:59.675 --> 00:09:01.681 But the human brain -- NOTE Paragraph 00:09:01.681 --> 00:09:02.978 (Laughter) NOTE Paragraph 00:09:03.433 --> 00:09:05.270 The human brain always triumphs, 00:09:05.270 --> 00:09:07.105 and indeed in the United States today, 00:09:07.105 --> 00:09:10.763 86 percent of Americans will marry by age 49, 00:09:10.763 --> 00:09:14.239 and even in cultures around the world where they're not marrying as often, 00:09:14.239 --> 00:09:17.697 they are settling down eventually with a long-term partner. NOTE Paragraph 00:09:17.697 --> 00:09:19.821 So it began to occur to me -- 00:09:19.821 --> 00:09:24.078 during this long extension of the precommitment stage, 00:09:24.078 --> 00:09:27.204 if you can get rid of bad relationships before you marry, 00:09:27.204 --> 00:09:29.651 maybe we're going to see more happy marriages. 00:09:29.989 --> 00:09:35.040 So I did a study of 1100 married people in America -- 00:09:35.040 --> 00:09:36.720 not on Match.com, of course -- 00:09:36.720 --> 00:09:38.859 and I asked them a lot of questions, 00:09:38.859 --> 00:09:40.389 but one of the questions was, 00:09:40.389 --> 00:09:45.029 "Would you re-marry the person you're currently married to?" 00:09:45.029 --> 00:09:47.894 And 81 percent said, "yes." NOTE Paragraph 00:09:48.820 --> 00:09:50.139 In fact, 00:09:50.139 --> 00:09:55.339 the greatest change in modern romance and family life 00:09:55.339 --> 00:09:57.292 is not technology -- 00:09:57.292 --> 00:09:59.354 it's not even slow love -- 00:09:59.354 --> 00:10:03.519 it's actually women piling into the job market in cultures around the world. 00:10:03.886 --> 00:10:05.239 For millions of years, 00:10:05.239 --> 00:10:08.070 our ancestors lived in little hunting and gathering groups. 00:10:08.070 --> 00:10:11.076 Women commuted to work to gather their fruits and vegetables. 00:10:11.076 --> 00:10:14.679 They came home with 60 to 80 percent of the evening meal. 00:10:14.679 --> 00:10:17.249 The double-income family was the rule. 00:10:17.451 --> 00:10:20.344 And women were regarded as just as economically, 00:10:20.344 --> 00:10:21.339 socially 00:10:21.339 --> 00:10:24.306 and sexually powerful as men. NOTE Paragraph 00:10:24.521 --> 00:10:27.646 Then the environment changed some 10,000 years ago, 00:10:27.646 --> 00:10:29.898 we began to settle down on the farm, 00:10:29.898 --> 00:10:31.536 and both men and women, 00:10:31.536 --> 00:10:33.111 they became obliged, really 00:10:33.111 --> 00:10:34.706 to marry the right person, 00:10:34.706 --> 00:10:36.159 from the right background, 00:10:36.159 --> 00:10:37.485 from the right religion 00:10:37.485 --> 00:10:41.046 and from the right kin and social and political connections. 00:10:41.046 --> 00:10:42.616 Men's jobs became more important: 00:10:42.616 --> 00:10:45.383 they have to move the rocks, fell the trees, plow the land. 00:10:45.383 --> 00:10:47.475 They brought the produce off to local markets 00:10:47.475 --> 00:10:49.599 and came home with the equivalent of money. 00:10:49.879 --> 00:10:51.425 And along with this, 00:10:51.425 --> 00:10:54.425 we see a rise of a host of beliefs. 00:10:54.425 --> 00:10:56.671 The belief of virginity at marriage, 00:10:56.671 --> 00:10:57.867 arragned marriages -- 00:10:57.867 --> 00:10:59.679 strictly arranged marriages -- 00:10:59.679 --> 00:11:02.240 the belief that the man is the head of the household, 00:11:02.240 --> 00:11:04.502 that the wife's place is in the home, 00:11:04.502 --> 00:11:05.678 and most important: 00:11:05.678 --> 00:11:07.062 honor thy husband, 00:11:07.062 --> 00:11:08.799 and 'til death do us part. NOTE Paragraph 00:11:08.799 --> 00:11:10.641 These are gone. 00:11:10.641 --> 00:11:11.730 They are going, 00:11:11.730 --> 00:11:13.069 and in many places, 00:11:13.069 --> 00:11:14.619 they are gone. 00:11:14.619 --> 00:11:17.554 We are right now in a marriage revolution. 00:11:17.963 --> 00:11:22.639 We are shedding 10,000 years of our farming tradition 00:11:22.639 --> 00:11:28.288 and moving forward towards egalitarian relationships between the sexes, 00:11:28.288 --> 00:11:33.103 something that I regard as highly compatible with the ancient human spirit. NOTE Paragraph 00:11:33.745 --> 00:11:35.582 I'm not a Pollyanna; 00:11:35.582 --> 00:11:37.288 there's a great deal to cry about. 00:11:37.288 --> 00:11:39.080 I studied divorce in 80 cultures, 00:11:39.080 --> 00:11:41.210 I studied, as I say, adultery in many -- 00:11:41.210 --> 00:11:42.939 there's a whole pile of problems. 00:11:42.939 --> 00:11:44.852 As William Butler Yates, 00:11:44.852 --> 00:11:46.412 the poet once said, 00:11:46.412 --> 00:11:49.386 "Love is the crooked thing." 00:11:49.386 --> 00:11:50.389 I would add, 00:11:50.389 --> 00:11:52.203 "Nobody gets out alive." NOTE Paragraph 00:11:52.203 --> 00:11:53.199 (Laughter) NOTE Paragraph 00:11:53.199 --> 00:11:54.718 We all have problems. 00:11:55.099 --> 00:11:56.099 But in fact, 00:11:56.099 --> 00:11:58.713 I think the poet Randall Jerrell really sums it up best. 00:11:58.713 --> 00:12:03.751 He said, "The dark, uneasy world of family life -- 00:12:03.751 --> 00:12:08.453 where the greatest can fail and the humblest succeed." NOTE Paragraph 00:12:08.891 --> 00:12:10.935 But I will leave you with this: 00:12:10.935 --> 00:12:13.625 love and attachment will prevail, 00:12:13.625 --> 00:12:16.103 technology cannot change it. 00:12:16.103 --> 00:12:17.861 And I will conclude by saying 00:12:17.861 --> 00:12:21.422 that any understanding of human relationships 00:12:21.422 --> 00:12:23.431 must take into account 00:12:23.431 --> 00:12:27.611 one the most powerful determinants of human behavior: 00:12:27.611 --> 00:12:29.504 the unquenchable, 00:12:29.504 --> 00:12:31.218 adaptable, 00:12:31.218 --> 00:12:34.034 and primordial human drive to love. NOTE Paragraph 00:12:34.034 --> 00:12:35.209 Thank you. NOTE Paragraph 00:12:35.209 --> 00:12:38.231 (Applause) NOTE Paragraph 00:12:40.074 --> 00:12:42.528 Kelly Stoetzel: Thank you so much for that, Helen. 00:12:42.528 --> 00:12:44.864 As you know, there's another speaker here with us 00:12:44.864 --> 00:12:46.477 that works in your same field. 00:12:46.822 --> 00:12:49.191 She comes at it from a different perspective. 00:12:49.191 --> 00:12:53.478 Esther Perel is a psychotherapist who works with couples. 00:12:53.837 --> 00:12:55.153 You study data, 00:12:55.153 --> 00:12:57.791 Esther studies the stories the couples tell her 00:12:57.791 --> 00:12:59.523 when they come to her for help. 00:12:59.754 --> 00:13:01.478 Let's have her join us on the stage. 00:13:01.478 --> 00:13:02.484 Esther? NOTE Paragraph 00:13:02.970 --> 00:13:04.453 (Applause) NOTE Paragraph 00:13:10.503 --> 00:13:11.861 So Esther, 00:13:11.861 --> 00:13:14.101 when you were watching Helen's talk, 00:13:14.101 --> 00:13:16.746 was there any part of it that sort of resonated with you 00:13:16.746 --> 00:13:18.332 through the lens of your own work 00:13:18.332 --> 00:13:19.994 that you'd like the comment on? NOTE Paragraph 00:13:20.396 --> 00:13:23.840 EP: So it's interesting because on the one hand, 00:13:23.840 --> 00:13:28.179 the need for love is ubiquitous and universal, 00:13:28.179 --> 00:13:30.132 but the way we love -- 00:13:30.132 --> 00:13:31.686 the meaning we make out of it -- 00:13:31.686 --> 00:13:33.832 the rules that govern our relationships 00:13:33.832 --> 00:13:35.809 I think are changing fundamentally. NOTE Paragraph 00:13:36.049 --> 00:13:37.839 We come from a model 00:13:37.839 --> 00:13:42.318 that until now was primarily regulated around duty and obligation, 00:13:42.318 --> 00:13:43.897 and the needs for the collective, 00:13:43.897 --> 00:13:44.969 and loyalty. 00:13:44.969 --> 00:13:47.869 And we have shifted it to a model of free choice 00:13:47.869 --> 00:13:51.104 and individual rights, 00:13:51.104 --> 00:13:53.707 and self-fulfillment and happiness. 00:13:53.707 --> 00:13:55.927 And so that was the first thing I thought, 00:13:55.927 --> 00:13:58.016 is that the need doesn't change, 00:13:58.016 --> 00:14:02.502 but the context and the way we regulate these relationships changes a lot. NOTE Paragraph 00:14:02.764 --> 00:14:05.784 On the paradox of choice -- 00:14:05.784 --> 00:14:07.333 so you know, 00:14:07.333 --> 00:14:09.299 on the one hand we relish the novelty 00:14:09.299 --> 00:14:11.039 and the playfulness I think, 00:14:11.039 --> 00:14:13.591 to be able to have so many options. 00:14:13.591 --> 00:14:15.034 And at the same time, 00:14:15.034 --> 00:14:17.471 as you talk about this cognitive overload, 00:14:17.471 --> 00:14:22.677 I see many, many people who ... 00:14:22.677 --> 00:14:26.775 who dread the uncertainty and self-doubt 00:14:26.775 --> 00:14:29.285 that comes with this [matter] of choice, 00:14:29.285 --> 00:14:31.697 creating a case of "FOMO" 00:14:31.697 --> 00:14:33.258 and then leading us -- 00:14:33.258 --> 00:14:36.675 FOMO, fear of missed opportunity, or fear of missing out -- 00:14:36.675 --> 00:14:39.640 it's like, "How do I know I have found the one -- 00:14:39.640 --> 00:14:40.770 the right one?" NOTE Paragraph 00:14:40.770 --> 00:14:44.453 So we've created what I call this thing of "stable ambiguity." 00:14:44.799 --> 00:14:48.578 Stable ambiguity is when you are too afraid to be alone, 00:14:48.578 --> 00:14:52.586 but also not really willing to engage in intimacy-building. 00:14:52.586 --> 00:14:57.857 It's a set of tactics that kind of prolong the uncertainty of a relationship 00:14:57.857 --> 00:15:00.487 but also the uncertainty of the breakup. 00:15:00.487 --> 00:15:03.590 So here on the Internet you have three major ones. 00:15:03.590 --> 00:15:06.094 One is icing and simmering, 00:15:06.094 --> 00:15:08.706 which are great stalling tactics 00:15:08.706 --> 00:15:11.206 that offer a kind of holding pattern 00:15:11.206 --> 00:15:15.265 that emphasizes the undefined nature of a relationship, 00:15:15.265 --> 00:15:19.395 but at the same time gives you enough of a comforting consistency 00:15:19.395 --> 00:15:22.010 and enough freedom of the undefined boundaries. NOTE Paragraph 00:15:22.418 --> 00:15:24.268 (Laugther) NOTE Paragraph 00:15:24.268 --> 00:15:25.344 Yeah? NOTE Paragraph 00:15:25.344 --> 00:15:27.098 And then comes ghosting. 00:15:27.098 --> 00:15:29.039 And ghosting is basically, 00:15:29.039 --> 00:15:33.671 you know, you disappear from this [matter] of texts on the spot, 00:15:33.671 --> 00:15:37.479 and you don't have to deal with the pain that you inflict on another 00:15:37.479 --> 00:15:40.217 because you're making it invisible even to yourself. NOTE Paragraph 00:15:40.217 --> 00:15:41.215 (Laughter) NOTE Paragraph 00:15:41.215 --> 00:15:42.223 Yeah? NOTE Paragraph 00:15:42.223 --> 00:15:43.909 So I was thinking -- 00:15:43.909 --> 00:15:47.279 these words came up for me as I was listening to you -- 00:15:47.279 --> 00:15:52.212 like how a vocabulary creates also a reality, 00:15:52.212 --> 00:15:53.997 and at the same time, 00:15:53.997 --> 00:15:55.704 that's my question to you. 00:15:55.704 --> 00:15:58.751 Do you think when the context changes, 00:15:58.751 --> 00:16:02.414 it still means that the nature of love remains the same? NOTE Paragraph 00:16:02.414 --> 00:16:06.648 You study the brain and I study people's relationships and stories, 00:16:06.648 --> 00:16:10.826 so I think it's everything you say, plus. 00:16:10.826 --> 00:16:12.326 But I don't always know 00:16:12.326 --> 00:16:15.538 the degree to which a changing context -- 00:16:15.538 --> 00:16:18.250 does it at some point begin to change -- 00:16:18.250 --> 00:16:19.459 if the meaning changes, 00:16:19.459 --> 00:16:20.881 does it change the need, 00:16:20.881 --> 00:16:23.596 or is the need clear of the entire context? NOTE Paragraph 00:16:23.797 --> 00:16:24.966 HF: Wow. 00:16:24.966 --> 00:16:26.056 Well -- NOTE Paragraph 00:16:26.056 --> 00:16:27.696 (Laughter) NOTE Paragraph 00:16:27.696 --> 00:16:29.713 (Applause) NOTE Paragraph 00:16:31.245 --> 00:16:34.213 Well, I've got three points here, right? 00:16:34.871 --> 00:16:36.586 Well first of all to your first one: 00:16:36.586 --> 00:16:38.442 there's no question that we've changed, 00:16:38.442 --> 00:16:39.984 that we now want a personal love 00:16:39.984 --> 00:16:42.981 and that for thousands of years we had to marry the right person 00:16:42.981 --> 00:16:45.387 from the right background and the right connection. 00:16:45.387 --> 00:16:46.394 And in fact, 00:16:46.394 --> 00:16:48.959 in my studies of 5,000 people every year, 00:16:48.959 --> 00:16:51.070 I ask them, "What are you looking for?" 00:16:51.070 --> 00:16:54.017 And every single year over 97 percent say -- NOTE Paragraph 00:16:54.017 --> 00:16:55.354 EP: And this grows -- NOTE Paragraph 00:16:55.354 --> 00:16:56.352 HF: Well, no. 00:16:56.352 --> 00:16:59.499 The basic thing is over 97 percent of people 00:16:59.499 --> 00:17:01.736 want somebody that respects them, 00:17:01.736 --> 00:17:04.190 somebody that they can trust and confide in, 00:17:04.190 --> 00:17:05.960 somebody who makes them laugh, 00:17:05.960 --> 00:17:07.832 somebody who makes enough time for them 00:17:07.832 --> 00:17:11.374 and somebody who they find physically attractive. 00:17:11.656 --> 00:17:13.031 That never changes. 00:17:13.031 --> 00:17:14.891 And there's certainly -- 00:17:14.891 --> 00:17:16.270 you know there's two parts -- NOTE Paragraph 00:17:16.270 --> 00:17:17.873 EP: But you know how I call that? 00:17:17.873 --> 00:17:20.146 It's like, that's not what people used to say -- NOTE Paragraph 00:17:20.146 --> 00:17:21.399 HF: That's exactly right. NOTE Paragraph 00:17:21.399 --> 00:17:24.193 EP: They wanted somebody with whom they have companionship, 00:17:24.193 --> 00:17:25.576 economic support, children -- 00:17:25.576 --> 00:17:28.267 we went from a production economy to a service economy -- NOTE Paragraph 00:17:28.267 --> 00:17:29.274 (Laugther) NOTE Paragraph 00:17:29.274 --> 00:17:32.221 We did it in the larger culture and we're doing it in marriage. NOTE Paragraph 00:17:32.221 --> 00:17:33.798 HF: There's no question about it, 00:17:33.798 --> 00:17:34.808 but it's interesting, 00:17:34.808 --> 00:17:37.765 millennials actually want to be very good parents, 00:17:37.765 --> 00:17:42.177 whereas the generation above them wants to have a very fine marriage 00:17:42.177 --> 00:17:44.855 but is not as focused on being a good parent. 00:17:44.855 --> 00:17:46.594 You see all of these nuances. NOTE Paragraph 00:17:46.594 --> 00:17:49.173 There's two basic parts of personality: 00:17:49.173 --> 00:17:50.267 there's your culture -- 00:17:50.267 --> 00:17:52.690 everything you grew up to do and believe and say -- 00:17:52.690 --> 00:17:54.083 and there's your temperament. 00:17:54.083 --> 00:17:57.032 And basically what I've been talking about is your temperament. 00:17:57.032 --> 00:18:00.273 And that temperament is certainly going to change with changing times 00:18:00.273 --> 00:18:02.123 and changing beliefs. NOTE Paragraph 00:18:02.123 --> 00:18:05.166 And in terms of the paradox of choice, 00:18:05.166 --> 00:18:06.562 there's no question about it, 00:18:06.562 --> 00:18:07.721 that this is a pickle. 00:18:07.721 --> 00:18:09.058 There were millions of years 00:18:09.058 --> 00:18:12.173 where you found that sweet boy at the other side of the water hole 00:18:12.173 --> 00:18:13.196 and you went for it. NOTE Paragraph 00:18:13.196 --> 00:18:14.203 EP: Yes, but -- NOTE Paragraph 00:18:14.203 --> 00:18:16.365 HF: I do want to say one more thing. 00:18:16.365 --> 00:18:18.920 The bottom line is in hunting and gathering societies, 00:18:18.920 --> 00:18:22.436 they tended to have two or three partners during the course of their lives. 00:18:22.436 --> 00:18:23.769 I mean they weren't square. 00:18:23.769 --> 00:18:25.391 And I'm not suggesting that we do, 00:18:25.391 --> 00:18:29.631 but bottom line is we've always had alternatives. 00:18:29.631 --> 00:18:31.204 Mankind is always -- 00:18:31.204 --> 00:18:32.961 in fact the brain is well-built 00:18:32.961 --> 00:18:34.304 to what we call equilibrate, 00:18:34.304 --> 00:18:35.356 to try and decide: 00:18:35.356 --> 00:18:36.489 do I come, do I stay? 00:18:36.489 --> 00:18:38.061 Do I go, do I stay? 00:18:38.061 --> 00:18:39.585 What are the opportunities here? 00:18:39.585 --> 00:18:40.880 How do I handle this there? 00:18:40.880 --> 00:18:44.171 And so I think we're seeing another play out of that now. NOTE Paragraph 00:18:44.171 --> 00:18:45.767 KS: Well, thank you both so much. 00:18:45.767 --> 00:18:49.050 [I think you're going to have] a million dinner partners for tonight. NOTE Paragraph 00:18:49.050 --> 00:18:50.861 (Applause) NOTE Paragraph 00:18:50.861 --> 00:18:52.042 Thank you, thank you.