WEBVTT 00:00:00.827 --> 00:00:03.888 I was recently traveling in the Highlands of New Guinea, 00:00:03.912 --> 00:00:06.406 and I was talking with a man who had three wives. 00:00:06.905 --> 00:00:09.994 I asked him, "How many wives would you like to have?" 00:00:10.340 --> 00:00:11.774 And there was this long pause, 00:00:11.798 --> 00:00:12.993 and I thought to myself, 00:00:13.017 --> 00:00:14.568 "Is he going to say five? 00:00:14.592 --> 00:00:16.019 Is he going to say 10? 00:00:16.043 --> 00:00:17.885 Is he going to say 25?" 00:00:17.909 --> 00:00:19.071 And he leaned towards me 00:00:19.095 --> 00:00:20.605 and he whispered, "None." NOTE Paragraph 00:00:20.629 --> 00:00:22.809 (Laughter) NOTE Paragraph 00:00:23.514 --> 00:00:27.889 Eighty-six percent of human societies permit a man to have several wives: 00:00:27.913 --> 00:00:29.064 polygyny. 00:00:29.088 --> 00:00:31.197 But in the vast majority of these cultures, 00:00:31.221 --> 00:00:35.519 only about five or ten percent of men actually do have several wives. 00:00:35.543 --> 00:00:37.890 Having several partners can be a toothache. 00:00:37.914 --> 00:00:41.034 In fact, co-wives can fight with each other, 00:00:41.058 --> 00:00:43.995 sometimes they can even poison each other's children. 00:00:44.455 --> 00:00:47.106 And you've got to have a lot of cows, a lot of goats, 00:00:47.130 --> 00:00:49.095 a lot of money, a lot of land, 00:00:49.119 --> 00:00:50.655 in order to build a harem. NOTE Paragraph 00:00:51.017 --> 00:00:53.392 We are a pair-bonding species. 00:00:53.416 --> 00:00:56.954 Ninety-seven percent of mammals do not pair up to rear their young; 00:00:56.978 --> 00:00:58.806 human beings do. 00:00:58.830 --> 00:01:00.980 I'm not suggesting that we're not -- 00:01:01.004 --> 00:01:04.151 that we're necessarily sexually faithful to our partners. 00:01:04.175 --> 00:01:06.923 I've looked at adultery in 42 cultures, 00:01:06.947 --> 00:01:09.382 I understand, actually, some of the genetics of it, 00:01:09.406 --> 00:01:11.254 and some of the brain circuitry of it. 00:01:11.278 --> 00:01:13.221 It's very common around the world, 00:01:13.245 --> 00:01:15.182 but we are built to love. NOTE Paragraph 00:01:15.716 --> 00:01:19.032 How is technology changing love? 00:01:19.515 --> 00:01:21.987 I'm going to say almost not at all. 00:01:22.744 --> 00:01:24.098 I study the brain. 00:01:24.122 --> 00:01:27.852 I and my colleagues have put over 100 people into a brain scanner -- 00:01:27.876 --> 00:01:30.883 people who had just fallen happily in love, 00:01:30.907 --> 00:01:32.938 people who had just been rejected in love 00:01:32.962 --> 00:01:34.835 and people who are in love long-term. 00:01:34.859 --> 00:01:38.046 And it is possible to remain "in love" long-term. 00:01:38.543 --> 00:01:40.449 And I've long ago maintained 00:01:40.473 --> 00:01:43.498 that we've evolved three distinctly different brain systems 00:01:43.522 --> 00:01:45.359 for mating and reproduction: 00:01:45.383 --> 00:01:46.535 sex drive, 00:01:46.559 --> 00:01:48.495 feelings of intense romantic love 00:01:48.519 --> 00:01:52.265 and feelings of deep cosmic attachment to a long-term partner. 00:01:52.289 --> 00:01:54.725 And together, these three brain systems -- 00:01:54.749 --> 00:01:57.237 with many other parts of the brain -- 00:01:57.261 --> 00:02:02.387 orchestrate our sexual, our romantic and our family lives. NOTE Paragraph 00:02:02.411 --> 00:02:04.804 But they lie way below the cortex, 00:02:04.828 --> 00:02:09.049 way below the limbic system where we feel our emotions, 00:02:09.073 --> 00:02:10.360 generate our emotions. 00:02:10.384 --> 00:02:15.199 They lie in the most primitive parts of the brain, linked with energy, 00:02:15.223 --> 00:02:20.479 focus, craving, motivation, wanting and drive. 00:02:20.503 --> 00:02:21.656 In this case, 00:02:21.680 --> 00:02:24.211 the drive to win life's greatest prize: 00:02:24.235 --> 00:02:25.669 a mating partner. 00:02:25.693 --> 00:02:30.210 They evolved over 4.4 million years ago among our first ancestors, 00:02:30.234 --> 00:02:34.696 and they're not going to change if you swipe left or right on Tinder. NOTE Paragraph 00:02:34.720 --> 00:02:36.267 (Laughter) NOTE Paragraph 00:02:36.291 --> 00:02:38.737 (Applause) NOTE Paragraph 00:02:38.761 --> 00:02:43.376 There's no question that technology is changing the way we court: 00:02:43.400 --> 00:02:45.324 emailing, texting, 00:02:45.348 --> 00:02:47.323 emojis to express your emotions, 00:02:47.347 --> 00:02:48.611 sexting, 00:02:48.635 --> 00:02:51.071 "liking" a photograph, selfies ... 00:02:51.095 --> 00:02:55.207 We're seeing new rules and taboos for how to court. 00:02:55.936 --> 00:02:57.923 But, you know -- 00:02:57.947 --> 00:03:01.091 is this actually dramatically changing love? 00:03:01.730 --> 00:03:04.094 What about the late 1940s, 00:03:04.118 --> 00:03:06.679 when the automobile became very popular 00:03:06.703 --> 00:03:09.049 and we suddenly had rolling bedrooms? NOTE Paragraph 00:03:09.073 --> 00:03:10.791 (Laughter) NOTE Paragraph 00:03:10.815 --> 00:03:15.053 How about the introduction of the birth control pill? 00:03:15.491 --> 00:03:20.788 Unchained from the great threat of pregnancy and social ruin, 00:03:20.812 --> 00:03:25.236 women could finally express their primitive and primal sexuality. NOTE Paragraph 00:03:25.724 --> 00:03:28.741 Even dating sites are not changing love. 00:03:28.765 --> 00:03:31.323 I'm Chief Scientific Advisor to Match.com, 00:03:31.347 --> 00:03:33.027 I've been it for 11 years. 00:03:33.051 --> 00:03:35.055 I keep telling them and they agree with me, 00:03:35.079 --> 00:03:36.618 that these are not dating sites, 00:03:36.642 --> 00:03:38.655 they are introducing sites. 00:03:39.017 --> 00:03:41.280 When you sit down in a bar, 00:03:41.304 --> 00:03:42.888 in a coffee house, 00:03:42.912 --> 00:03:44.268 on a park bench, 00:03:44.292 --> 00:03:49.297 your ancient brain snaps into action like a sleeping cat awakened, 00:03:49.321 --> 00:03:50.620 and you smile 00:03:50.644 --> 00:03:51.802 and laugh 00:03:51.826 --> 00:03:53.008 and listen 00:03:53.032 --> 00:03:57.905 and parade the way our ancestors did 100,000 years ago. 00:03:58.424 --> 00:04:00.377 We can give you various people -- 00:04:00.401 --> 00:04:01.966 all the dating sites can -- 00:04:01.990 --> 00:04:05.903 but the only real algorithm is your own human brain. 00:04:05.927 --> 00:04:08.499 Technology is not going to change that. NOTE Paragraph 00:04:09.041 --> 00:04:13.685 Technology is also not going to change who you choose to love. 00:04:13.709 --> 00:04:16.405 I study the biology of personality, 00:04:16.429 --> 00:04:17.641 and I've come to believe 00:04:17.665 --> 00:04:21.948 that we've evolved four very broad styles of thinking and behaving, 00:04:21.972 --> 00:04:23.802 linked with the dopamine, serotonin, 00:04:23.826 --> 00:04:26.004 testosterone and estrogen systems. 00:04:26.358 --> 00:04:30.511 So I created a questionnaire directly from brain science 00:04:30.535 --> 00:04:33.677 to measure the degree to which you express the traits -- 00:04:33.701 --> 00:04:35.455 the constellation of traits -- 00:04:35.479 --> 00:04:38.487 linked with each of these four brain systems. 00:04:38.829 --> 00:04:43.697 I then put that questionnaire on various dating sites 00:04:43.721 --> 00:04:45.363 in 40 countries. 00:04:45.969 --> 00:04:49.859 Fourteen million or more people have now taken the questionnaire, 00:04:49.883 --> 00:04:53.808 and I've been able to watch who's naturally drawn to whom. NOTE Paragraph 00:04:54.462 --> 00:04:55.973 And as it turns out, 00:04:55.997 --> 00:04:58.566 those who were very expressive of the dopamine system 00:04:58.590 --> 00:05:01.725 tend to be curious, creative, spontaneous, energetic -- 00:05:01.749 --> 00:05:05.200 I would imagine there's an awful lot of people like that in this room -- 00:05:05.224 --> 00:05:07.152 they're drawn to people like themselves. 00:05:07.176 --> 00:05:10.559 Curious, creative people need people like themselves. 00:05:10.583 --> 00:05:13.221 People who are very expressive of the serotonin system 00:05:13.245 --> 00:05:16.124 tend to be traditional, conventional, they follow the rules, 00:05:16.148 --> 00:05:18.026 they respect authority, 00:05:18.050 --> 00:05:21.436 they tend to be religious -- religiosity is in the serotonin system -- 00:05:21.460 --> 00:05:24.797 and traditional people go for traditional people. 00:05:24.821 --> 00:05:27.485 In that way, similarity attracts. 00:05:27.509 --> 00:05:29.731 In the other two cases, opposites attract. 00:05:29.755 --> 00:05:32.052 People very expressive of the testosterone system 00:05:32.076 --> 00:05:35.999 tend to be analytical, logical, direct, decisive, 00:05:36.023 --> 00:05:37.505 and they go for their opposite: 00:05:37.529 --> 00:05:39.782 they go for somebody who's high estrogen, 00:05:39.806 --> 00:05:42.048 somebody who's got very good verbal skills 00:05:42.072 --> 00:05:43.314 and people skills, 00:05:43.338 --> 00:05:44.786 who's very intuitive 00:05:44.810 --> 00:05:48.123 and who's very nurturing and emotionally expressive. 00:05:48.519 --> 00:05:51.091 We have natural patterns of mate choice. 00:05:51.468 --> 00:05:56.524 Modern technology is not going to change who we choose to love. NOTE Paragraph 00:05:57.488 --> 00:06:00.041 But technology is producing one modern trend 00:06:00.065 --> 00:06:01.801 that I find particularly important. 00:06:02.151 --> 00:06:05.839 It's associated with the concept of paradox of choice. 00:06:06.372 --> 00:06:07.826 For millions of years, 00:06:07.850 --> 00:06:10.117 we lived in little hunting and gathering groups. 00:06:10.141 --> 00:06:12.667 You didn't have the opportunity to choose 00:06:12.691 --> 00:06:15.801 between 1,000 people on a dating site. 00:06:16.261 --> 00:06:18.318 In fact, I've been studying this recently, 00:06:18.342 --> 00:06:21.497 and I actually think there's some sort of sweet spot in the brain; 00:06:21.521 --> 00:06:25.472 I don't know what it is, but apparently, from reading a lot of the data, 00:06:25.496 --> 00:06:30.647 we can embrace about five to nine alternatives, and after that, 00:06:30.671 --> 00:06:33.891 you get into what academics call "cognitive overload," 00:06:33.915 --> 00:06:35.716 and you don't choose any. NOTE Paragraph 00:06:36.175 --> 00:06:39.321 So I've come to think that due to this cognitive overload, 00:06:39.345 --> 00:06:42.656 we're ushering in a new form of courtship 00:06:42.680 --> 00:06:44.625 that I call "slow love." 00:06:45.219 --> 00:06:48.766 I arrived at this during my work with Match.com. 00:06:49.400 --> 00:06:51.081 Every year for the last six years, 00:06:51.105 --> 00:06:53.798 we've done a study called "Singles in America." 00:06:53.822 --> 00:06:55.630 We don't poll the Match population, 00:06:55.654 --> 00:06:57.614 we poll the American population. 00:06:57.638 --> 00:07:00.607 We use 5,000-plus people, 00:07:00.631 --> 00:07:04.528 a representative sample of Americans based on the US census. NOTE Paragraph 00:07:04.552 --> 00:07:07.444 We've got data now on over 30,000 people, 00:07:07.468 --> 00:07:09.935 and every single year, 00:07:09.959 --> 00:07:12.485 I see some of the same patterns. 00:07:12.509 --> 00:07:15.288 Every single year when I ask the question, 00:07:15.312 --> 00:07:18.075 over 50 percent of people have had a one-night stand -- 00:07:18.099 --> 00:07:20.766 not necessarily last year, but in their lives -- 00:07:20.790 --> 00:07:23.063 50 percent have had a friends with benefits 00:07:23.087 --> 00:07:24.694 during the course of their lives, 00:07:24.718 --> 00:07:28.286 and over 50 percent have lived with a person long-term 00:07:28.310 --> 00:07:29.746 before marrying. 00:07:29.770 --> 00:07:31.972 Americans think that this is reckless. 00:07:31.996 --> 00:07:34.915 I have doubted that for a long time; 00:07:34.939 --> 00:07:36.831 the patterns are too strong. 00:07:36.855 --> 00:07:39.583 There's got to be some Darwinian explanation -- 00:07:39.607 --> 00:07:41.933 Not that many people are crazy. NOTE Paragraph 00:07:41.957 --> 00:07:45.845 And I stumbled, then, on a statistic that really came home to me. 00:07:46.267 --> 00:07:48.866 It was a very interesting academic article 00:07:48.890 --> 00:07:53.903 in which I found that 67 percent of singles in America today 00:07:53.927 --> 00:07:56.341 who are living long-term with somebody, 00:07:56.365 --> 00:08:00.452 have not yet married because they are terrified of divorce. 00:08:00.476 --> 00:08:02.332 They're terrified of the social, 00:08:02.356 --> 00:08:03.889 legal, emotional, 00:08:03.913 --> 00:08:06.782 economic consequences of divorce. 00:08:06.806 --> 00:08:10.564 So I came to realize that I don't think this is recklessness; 00:08:10.588 --> 00:08:12.264 I think it's caution. 00:08:12.791 --> 00:08:17.813 Today's singles want to know every single thing about a partner 00:08:17.837 --> 00:08:19.466 before they wed. 00:08:19.490 --> 00:08:21.419 You learn a lot between the sheets, 00:08:21.443 --> 00:08:23.955 not only about how somebody makes love, 00:08:23.979 --> 00:08:25.349 but whether they're kind, 00:08:25.373 --> 00:08:26.715 whether they can listen 00:08:26.739 --> 00:08:27.911 and at my age, 00:08:27.935 --> 00:08:29.713 whether they've got a sense of humor. NOTE Paragraph 00:08:29.737 --> 00:08:31.140 (Laughter) NOTE Paragraph 00:08:31.164 --> 00:08:34.618 And in an age where we have too many choices, 00:08:35.075 --> 00:08:38.337 we have very little fear of pregnancy and disease 00:08:38.361 --> 00:08:42.069 and we've got no feeling of shame for sex before marriage, 00:08:42.093 --> 00:08:45.791 I think people are taking their time to love. NOTE Paragraph 00:08:46.408 --> 00:08:48.059 And actually, what's happening is, 00:08:48.083 --> 00:08:51.944 what we're seeing is a real expansion of the precommitment stage 00:08:51.968 --> 00:08:53.704 before you tie the knot. 00:08:54.034 --> 00:08:56.760 Where marriage used to be the beginning of a relationship, 00:08:56.784 --> 00:08:58.453 now it's the finale. 00:08:59.413 --> 00:09:01.153 But the human brain -- NOTE Paragraph 00:09:01.177 --> 00:09:03.186 (Laughter) NOTE Paragraph 00:09:03.210 --> 00:09:05.024 The human brain always triumphs, 00:09:05.048 --> 00:09:06.943 and indeed, in the United States today, 00:09:06.967 --> 00:09:10.465 86 percent of Americans will marry by age 49. 00:09:10.489 --> 00:09:14.035 And even in cultures around the world where they're not marrying as often, 00:09:14.059 --> 00:09:17.334 they are settling down eventually with a long-term partner. NOTE Paragraph 00:09:17.358 --> 00:09:19.193 So it began to occur to me: 00:09:19.217 --> 00:09:23.784 during this long extension of the precommitment stage, 00:09:23.808 --> 00:09:26.981 if you can get rid of bad relationships before you marry, 00:09:27.005 --> 00:09:29.452 maybe we're going to see more happy marriages. 00:09:29.838 --> 00:09:34.713 So I did a study of 1,100 married people in America -- 00:09:34.737 --> 00:09:36.464 not on Match.com, of course -- 00:09:36.488 --> 00:09:38.604 and I asked them a lot of questions. 00:09:38.628 --> 00:09:40.135 But one of the questions was, 00:09:40.159 --> 00:09:44.731 "Would you re-marry the person you're currently married to?" 00:09:44.755 --> 00:09:47.620 And 81 percent said, "Yes." NOTE Paragraph 00:09:48.613 --> 00:09:55.092 In fact, the greatest change in modern romance and family life 00:09:55.116 --> 00:09:56.516 is not technology. 00:09:57.070 --> 00:09:58.564 It's not even slow love. 00:09:59.047 --> 00:10:01.998 It's actually women piling into the job market 00:10:02.022 --> 00:10:03.445 in cultures around the world. 00:10:03.767 --> 00:10:04.996 For millions of years, 00:10:05.020 --> 00:10:07.990 our ancestors lived in little hunting and gathering groups. 00:10:08.014 --> 00:10:10.919 Women commuted to work to gather their fruits and vegetables. 00:10:10.943 --> 00:10:14.453 They came home with 60 to 80 percent of the evening meal. 00:10:14.477 --> 00:10:17.170 The double-income family was the rule. 00:10:17.194 --> 00:10:21.135 And women were regarded as just as economically, socially 00:10:21.159 --> 00:10:24.274 and sexually powerful as men. NOTE Paragraph 00:10:24.298 --> 00:10:27.400 Then the environment changed some 10,000 years ago, 00:10:27.424 --> 00:10:29.653 we began to settle down on the farm 00:10:29.677 --> 00:10:32.868 and both men and women became obliged, really, 00:10:32.892 --> 00:10:34.464 to marry the right person, 00:10:34.488 --> 00:10:35.918 from the right background, 00:10:35.942 --> 00:10:37.245 from the right religion 00:10:37.269 --> 00:10:40.807 and from the right kin and social and political connections. 00:10:40.831 --> 00:10:42.425 Men's jobs became more important: 00:10:42.449 --> 00:10:45.186 they had to move the rocks, fell the trees, plow the land. 00:10:45.210 --> 00:10:48.134 They brought the produce to local markets, and came home 00:10:48.158 --> 00:10:49.672 with the equivalent of money. NOTE Paragraph 00:10:49.696 --> 00:10:51.242 Along with this, 00:10:51.266 --> 00:10:54.243 we see a rise of a host of beliefs: 00:10:54.267 --> 00:10:56.449 the belief of virginity at marriage, 00:10:56.473 --> 00:10:59.416 arranged marriages -- strictly arranged marriages -- 00:10:59.440 --> 00:11:01.967 the belief that the man is the head of the household, 00:11:01.991 --> 00:11:04.230 that the wife's place is in the home 00:11:04.254 --> 00:11:05.407 and most important, 00:11:05.431 --> 00:11:08.562 honor thy husband, and 'til death do us part. 00:11:08.586 --> 00:11:10.308 These are gone. 00:11:10.332 --> 00:11:12.881 They are going, and in many places, 00:11:12.905 --> 00:11:14.293 they are gone. NOTE Paragraph 00:11:14.317 --> 00:11:17.740 We are right now in a marriage revolution. 00:11:17.764 --> 00:11:22.479 We are shedding 10,000 years of our farming tradition 00:11:22.503 --> 00:11:28.129 and moving forward towards egalitarian relationships between the sexes -- 00:11:28.153 --> 00:11:32.968 something I regard as highly compatible with the ancient human spirit. NOTE Paragraph 00:11:33.562 --> 00:11:35.264 I'm not a Pollyanna; 00:11:35.288 --> 00:11:37.049 there's a great deal to cry about. 00:11:37.073 --> 00:11:38.819 I've studied divorce in 80 cultures, 00:11:38.843 --> 00:11:40.979 I've studied, as I say, adultery in many -- 00:11:41.003 --> 00:11:42.819 there's a whole pile of problems. 00:11:42.843 --> 00:11:46.035 As William Butler Yeats, the poet, once said, 00:11:46.059 --> 00:11:48.524 "Love is the crooked thing." 00:11:49.131 --> 00:11:51.921 I would add, "Nobody gets out alive." NOTE Paragraph 00:11:51.945 --> 00:11:53.040 (Laughter) NOTE Paragraph 00:11:53.064 --> 00:11:54.531 We all have problems. 00:11:54.925 --> 00:11:58.529 But in fact, I think the poet Randall Jarrell really sums it up best. 00:11:58.553 --> 00:12:03.552 He said, "The dark, uneasy world of family life -- 00:12:03.576 --> 00:12:08.094 where the greatest can fail, and the humblest succeed." NOTE Paragraph 00:12:08.779 --> 00:12:10.666 But I will leave you with this: 00:12:10.690 --> 00:12:13.418 love and attachment will prevail, 00:12:13.442 --> 00:12:15.975 technology cannot change it. 00:12:15.999 --> 00:12:17.837 And I will conclude by saying 00:12:17.861 --> 00:12:23.107 any understanding of human relationships must take into account 00:12:23.131 --> 00:12:27.356 one the most powerful determinants of human behavior: 00:12:27.380 --> 00:12:28.598 the unquenchable, 00:12:29.217 --> 00:12:30.382 adaptable 00:12:30.789 --> 00:12:33.795 and primordial human drive to love. NOTE Paragraph 00:12:33.819 --> 00:12:34.971 Thank you. NOTE Paragraph 00:12:34.995 --> 00:12:38.017 (Applause) NOTE Paragraph 00:12:39.915 --> 00:12:42.296 Kelly Stoetzel: Thank you so much for that, Helen. 00:12:42.320 --> 00:12:44.629 As you know, there's another speaker here with us 00:12:44.653 --> 00:12:46.203 that works in your same field. 00:12:46.227 --> 00:12:48.658 She comes at it from a different perspective. 00:12:48.682 --> 00:12:53.319 Esther Perel is a psychotherapist who works with couples. 00:12:53.749 --> 00:12:55.042 You study data, 00:12:55.066 --> 00:12:57.566 Esther studies the stories the couples tell her 00:12:57.590 --> 00:12:59.618 when they come to her for help. 00:12:59.642 --> 00:13:01.366 Let's have her join us on the stage. 00:13:01.390 --> 00:13:02.541 Esther? NOTE Paragraph 00:13:02.565 --> 00:13:05.696 (Applause) NOTE Paragraph 00:13:10.249 --> 00:13:11.495 So Esther, 00:13:11.519 --> 00:13:13.791 when you were watching Helen's talk, 00:13:13.815 --> 00:13:15.021 was there any part of it 00:13:15.045 --> 00:13:17.812 that resonated with you through the lens of your own work 00:13:17.836 --> 00:13:19.421 that you'd like to comment on? NOTE Paragraph 00:13:20.062 --> 00:13:23.641 Esther Perel: It's interesting, because on the one hand, 00:13:23.665 --> 00:13:27.494 the need for love is ubiquitous and universal. 00:13:27.965 --> 00:13:29.929 But the way we love -- 00:13:29.953 --> 00:13:31.483 the meaning we make out of it -- 00:13:31.507 --> 00:13:33.832 the rules that govern our relationships, I think, 00:13:33.856 --> 00:13:35.883 are changing fundamentally. NOTE Paragraph 00:13:35.907 --> 00:13:38.807 We come from a model that, until now, 00:13:38.831 --> 00:13:42.294 was primarily regulated around duty and obligation, 00:13:42.318 --> 00:13:44.715 the needs of the collective and loyalty. 00:13:44.739 --> 00:13:45.919 And we have shifted it 00:13:45.943 --> 00:13:50.273 to a model of free choice and individual rights, 00:13:50.297 --> 00:13:53.373 and self-fulfillment and happiness. 00:13:53.397 --> 00:13:55.717 And so, that was the first thing I thought, 00:13:55.741 --> 00:13:57.509 that the need doesn't change, 00:13:57.533 --> 00:14:01.341 but the context and the way we regulate these relationships 00:14:01.365 --> 00:14:02.643 changes a lot. NOTE Paragraph 00:14:02.667 --> 00:14:04.507 On the paradox of choice -- 00:14:06.682 --> 00:14:09.009 you know, on the one hand we relish the novelty 00:14:09.033 --> 00:14:10.625 and the playfulness, I think, 00:14:10.649 --> 00:14:13.360 to be able to have so many options. 00:14:13.384 --> 00:14:14.745 And at the same time, 00:14:14.769 --> 00:14:17.183 as you talk about this cognitive overload, 00:14:17.207 --> 00:14:20.655 I see many, many people who ... 00:14:22.391 --> 00:14:26.497 who dread the uncertainty and self-doubt 00:14:26.521 --> 00:14:29.070 that comes with this massa of choice, 00:14:29.094 --> 00:14:31.353 creating a case of "FOMO" 00:14:31.377 --> 00:14:33.019 and then leading us -- 00:14:33.043 --> 00:14:36.358 FOMO, fear of missed opportunity, or fear of missing out -- 00:14:36.382 --> 00:14:39.340 it's like, "How do I know I have found 'the one' -- 00:14:39.364 --> 00:14:40.536 the right one?" NOTE Paragraph 00:14:40.560 --> 00:14:44.243 So we've created what I call this thing of "stable ambiguity." 00:14:44.600 --> 00:14:48.305 Stable ambiguity is when you are too afraid to be alone 00:14:48.329 --> 00:14:52.364 but also not really willing to engage in intimacy-building. 00:14:52.388 --> 00:14:57.682 It's a set of tactics that kind of prolong the uncertainty of a relationship 00:14:57.706 --> 00:15:00.313 but also the uncertainty of the breakup. 00:15:00.337 --> 00:15:03.319 So, here on the internet you have three major ones. 00:15:03.343 --> 00:15:05.664 One is icing and simmering, 00:15:05.688 --> 00:15:08.563 which are great stalling tactics 00:15:08.587 --> 00:15:11.064 that offer a kind of holding pattern 00:15:11.088 --> 00:15:14.882 that emphasizes the undefined nature of a relationship 00:15:14.906 --> 00:15:19.013 but at the same time gives you enough of a comforting consistency 00:15:19.037 --> 00:15:21.794 and enough freedom of the undefined boundaries. NOTE Paragraph 00:15:21.818 --> 00:15:23.644 (Laughter) NOTE Paragraph 00:15:24.070 --> 00:15:25.240 Yeah? NOTE Paragraph 00:15:25.264 --> 00:15:26.812 And then comes ghosting. 00:15:26.836 --> 00:15:28.808 And ghosting is, basically, 00:15:28.832 --> 00:15:33.352 you disappear from this massa of texts on the spot, 00:15:33.376 --> 00:15:37.161 and you don't have to deal with the pain that you inflict on another, 00:15:37.185 --> 00:15:39.783 because you're making it invisible even to yourself. NOTE Paragraph 00:15:39.807 --> 00:15:40.994 (Laughter) NOTE Paragraph 00:15:41.018 --> 00:15:42.176 Yeah? NOTE Paragraph 00:15:42.200 --> 00:15:46.937 So I was thinking -- these words came up for me as I was listening to you, 00:15:46.961 --> 00:15:52.124 like how a vocabulary also creates a reality, 00:15:52.148 --> 00:15:53.703 and at the same time, 00:15:53.727 --> 00:15:55.411 that's my question to you: 00:15:55.435 --> 00:15:58.375 Do you think when the context changes, 00:15:58.399 --> 00:16:02.039 it still means that the nature of love remains the same? NOTE Paragraph 00:16:02.063 --> 00:16:06.161 You study the brain and I study people's relationships and stories, 00:16:06.185 --> 00:16:10.171 so I think it's everything you say, plus. 00:16:10.691 --> 00:16:14.593 But I don't always know the degree to which a changing context ... 00:16:15.451 --> 00:16:17.981 Does it at some point begin to change -- 00:16:18.005 --> 00:16:20.618 If the meaning changes, does it change the need, 00:16:20.642 --> 00:16:23.105 or is the need clear of the entire context? NOTE Paragraph 00:16:23.797 --> 00:16:25.217 HF: Wow! Well -- NOTE Paragraph 00:16:25.241 --> 00:16:27.672 (Laughter) NOTE Paragraph 00:16:27.696 --> 00:16:30.871 (Applause) NOTE Paragraph 00:16:30.895 --> 00:16:33.863 Well, I've got three points here, right? 00:16:34.736 --> 00:16:36.562 First of all, to your first one: 00:16:36.586 --> 00:16:40.179 there's no question that we've changed, that we now want a person to love, 00:16:40.203 --> 00:16:43.048 and for thousands of years, we had to marry the right person 00:16:43.072 --> 00:16:45.463 from the right background and right kin connection. 00:16:45.497 --> 00:16:48.718 And in fact, in my studies of 5,000 people every year, 00:16:48.742 --> 00:16:50.868 I ask them, "What are you looking for?" 00:16:50.892 --> 00:16:53.650 And every single year, over 97 percent say -- NOTE Paragraph 00:16:53.674 --> 00:16:54.884 EP: The list grows -- NOTE Paragraph 00:16:54.908 --> 00:16:56.068 HF: Well, no. 00:16:56.092 --> 00:16:59.415 The basic thing is over 97 percent of people 00:16:59.439 --> 00:17:01.530 want somebody that respects them, 00:17:01.554 --> 00:17:03.842 somebody they can trust and confide in, 00:17:03.866 --> 00:17:05.522 somebody who makes them laugh, 00:17:05.546 --> 00:17:07.428 somebody who makes enough time for them 00:17:07.452 --> 00:17:11.449 and somebody who they find physically attractive. 00:17:11.473 --> 00:17:12.756 That never changes. 00:17:12.780 --> 00:17:15.958 And there's certainly -- you know, there's two parts -- NOTE Paragraph 00:17:15.982 --> 00:17:17.562 EP: But you know how I call that? 00:17:17.586 --> 00:17:19.836 That's not what people used to say -- NOTE Paragraph 00:17:19.860 --> 00:17:21.090 HF: That's exactly right. NOTE Paragraph 00:17:21.114 --> 00:17:24.413 EP: They said they wanted somebody with whom they have companionship, 00:17:24.437 --> 00:17:25.728 economic support, children. 00:17:25.752 --> 00:17:28.338 We went from a production economy to a service economy. NOTE Paragraph 00:17:28.362 --> 00:17:29.371 (Laughter) NOTE Paragraph 00:17:29.395 --> 00:17:32.376 We did it in the larger culture, and we're doing it in marriage. NOTE Paragraph 00:17:32.400 --> 00:17:33.948 HF: Right, no question about it. 00:17:33.972 --> 00:17:37.882 But it's interesting, the millennials actually want to be very good parents, 00:17:37.906 --> 00:17:42.026 whereas the generation above them wants to have a very fine marriage 00:17:42.050 --> 00:17:44.272 but is not as focused on being a good parent. 00:17:44.296 --> 00:17:46.379 You see all of these nuances. NOTE Paragraph 00:17:46.403 --> 00:17:48.959 There's two basic parts of personality: 00:17:48.983 --> 00:17:52.558 there's your culture -- everything you grew up to do and believe and say -- 00:17:52.582 --> 00:17:53.981 and there's your temperament. 00:17:54.005 --> 00:17:56.832 Basically, what I've been talking about is your temperament. 00:17:56.856 --> 00:18:00.174 And that temperament is certainly going to change with changing times 00:18:00.198 --> 00:18:01.499 and changing beliefs. NOTE Paragraph 00:18:01.891 --> 00:18:05.038 And in terms of the paradox of choice, 00:18:05.062 --> 00:18:07.469 there's no question about it that this is a pickle. 00:18:07.493 --> 00:18:10.357 There were millions of years where you found that sweet boy 00:18:10.381 --> 00:18:12.106 at the other side of the water hole, 00:18:12.130 --> 00:18:13.281 and you went for it. NOTE Paragraph 00:18:13.305 --> 00:18:14.456 EP: Yes, but you -- NOTE Paragraph 00:18:14.480 --> 00:18:16.227 HF: I do want to say one more thing. 00:18:16.251 --> 00:18:18.868 The bottom line is, in hunting and gathering societies, 00:18:18.892 --> 00:18:22.490 they tended to have two or three partners during the course of their lives. 00:18:22.514 --> 00:18:23.672 They weren't square! 00:18:23.696 --> 00:18:25.352 And I'm not suggesting that we do, 00:18:25.376 --> 00:18:29.352 but the bottom line is, we've always had alternatives. 00:18:29.376 --> 00:18:30.855 Mankind is always -- 00:18:30.879 --> 00:18:34.071 in fact, the brain is well-built to what we call "equilibrate," 00:18:34.095 --> 00:18:35.246 to try and decide: 00:18:35.270 --> 00:18:37.704 Do I come, do I stay? Do I go, do I stay? 00:18:37.728 --> 00:18:39.276 What are the opportunities here? 00:18:39.300 --> 00:18:40.602 How do I handle this there? 00:18:40.626 --> 00:18:43.587 And so I think we're seeing another play-out of that now. NOTE Paragraph 00:18:44.052 --> 00:18:45.675 KS: Well, thank you both so much. 00:18:45.699 --> 00:18:48.905 I think you're going to have a million dinner partners for tonight! NOTE Paragraph 00:18:48.929 --> 00:18:50.908 (Applause) NOTE Paragraph 00:18:50.932 --> 00:18:52.113 Thank you, thank you.