1
00:00:00,827 --> 00:00:03,888
I was recently traveling
in the Highlands of New Guinea,

2
00:00:03,912 --> 00:00:06,406
and I was talking with a man
who had three wives.

3
00:00:06,905 --> 00:00:09,994
I asked him, "How many wives
would you like to have?"

4
00:00:10,340 --> 00:00:11,774
And there was this long pause,

5
00:00:11,798 --> 00:00:12,993
and I thought to myself,

6
00:00:13,017 --> 00:00:14,568
"Is he going to say five?

7
00:00:14,592 --> 00:00:16,019
Is he going to say 10?

8
00:00:16,043 --> 00:00:17,885
Is he going to say 25?"

9
00:00:17,909 --> 00:00:19,071
And he leaned towards me

10
00:00:19,095 --> 00:00:20,605
and he whispered, "None."

11
00:00:20,629 --> 00:00:22,809
(Laughter)

12
00:00:23,514 --> 00:00:27,889
Eighty-six percent of human societies
permit a man to have several wives:

13
00:00:27,913 --> 00:00:29,064
polygeny.

14
00:00:29,088 --> 00:00:31,197
But in the vast majority
of these cultures,

15
00:00:31,221 --> 00:00:35,519
only about five or ten percent of men
actually do have several wives.

16
00:00:35,543 --> 00:00:37,890
Having several partners
can be a toothache.

17
00:00:37,914 --> 00:00:41,034
In fact, co-wives can
fight with each other,

18
00:00:41,058 --> 00:00:43,995
sometimes they can even poison
each other's children.

19
00:00:44,455 --> 00:00:47,106
And you've got to have
a lot of cows, a lot of goats,

20
00:00:47,130 --> 00:00:49,095
a lot of money, a lot of land,

21
00:00:49,119 --> 00:00:50,655
in order to build a harem.

22
00:00:51,017 --> 00:00:53,392
We are a pair-bonding species.

23
00:00:53,416 --> 00:00:56,954
Ninety-seven percent of mammals
do not pair up to rear their young;

24
00:00:56,978 --> 00:00:58,806
human beings do.

25
00:00:58,830 --> 00:01:00,980
I'm not suggesting that we're not --

26
00:01:01,004 --> 00:01:04,151
that we're necessarily
sexually faithful to our partners.

27
00:01:04,175 --> 00:01:06,923
I've looked at adultery in 42 cultures,

28
00:01:06,947 --> 00:01:09,382
I understand, actually,
some of the genetics of it,

29
00:01:09,406 --> 00:01:11,254
and some of the brain circuitry of it.

30
00:01:11,278 --> 00:01:13,221
It's very common around the world,

31
00:01:13,245 --> 00:01:15,182
but we are built to love.

32
00:01:15,716 --> 00:01:19,032
How is technology changing love?

33
00:01:19,515 --> 00:01:21,987
I'm going to say almost not at all.

34
00:01:22,744 --> 00:01:24,098
I study the brain.

35
00:01:24,122 --> 00:01:27,852
I and my colleagues have put
over 100 people into a brain scanner --

36
00:01:27,876 --> 00:01:30,883
people who had just
fallen happily in love,

37
00:01:30,907 --> 00:01:32,938
people who had just been rejected in love

38
00:01:32,962 --> 00:01:34,835
and people who are in love long-term.

39
00:01:34,859 --> 00:01:38,046
And it is possible
to remain "in love" long-term.

40
00:01:38,543 --> 00:01:40,449
And I've long ago maintained

41
00:01:40,473 --> 00:01:43,498
that we've evolved three distinctly
different brain systems

42
00:01:43,522 --> 00:01:45,359
for mating and reproduction:

43
00:01:45,383 --> 00:01:46,535
sex drive,

44
00:01:46,559 --> 00:01:48,495
feelings of intense romantic love

45
00:01:48,519 --> 00:01:52,265
and feelings of deep cosmic
attachment to a long-term partner.

46
00:01:52,289 --> 00:01:54,725
And together, these three brain systems --

47
00:01:54,749 --> 00:01:57,237
with many other parts of the brain --

48
00:01:57,261 --> 00:02:02,387
orchestrate our sexual,
our romantic and our family lives.

49
00:02:02,411 --> 00:02:04,804
But they lie way below the cortex,

50
00:02:04,828 --> 00:02:09,049
way below the limbic system
where we feel our emotions,

51
00:02:09,073 --> 00:02:10,360
generate our emotions.

52
00:02:10,384 --> 00:02:15,199
They lie in the most primitive parts
of the brain, linked with energy,

53
00:02:15,223 --> 00:02:20,479
focus, craving, motivation,
wanting and drive.

54
00:02:20,503 --> 00:02:21,656
In this case,

55
00:02:21,680 --> 00:02:24,211
the drive to win life's greatest prize:

56
00:02:24,235 --> 00:02:25,669
a mating partner.

57
00:02:25,693 --> 00:02:30,210
They evolved over 4.4 million years ago
among our first ancestors,

58
00:02:30,234 --> 00:02:34,696
and they're not going to change
if you swipe left or right on Tinder.

59
00:02:34,720 --> 00:02:36,267
(Laughter)

60
00:02:36,291 --> 00:02:38,737
(Applause)

61
00:02:38,761 --> 00:02:43,376
There's no question that technology
is changing the way we court:

62
00:02:43,400 --> 00:02:45,324
emailing, texting,

63
00:02:45,348 --> 00:02:47,323
emojis to express your emotions,

64
00:02:47,347 --> 00:02:48,611
sexting,

65
00:02:48,635 --> 00:02:51,071
"liking" a photograph, selfies ...

66
00:02:51,095 --> 00:02:55,207
We're seeing new rules
and taboos for how to court.

67
00:02:55,936 --> 00:02:57,923
But, you know --

68
00:02:57,947 --> 00:03:01,091
is this actually
dramatically changing love?

69
00:03:01,730 --> 00:03:04,094
What about the late 1940s,

70
00:03:04,118 --> 00:03:06,679
when the automobile became very popular

71
00:03:06,703 --> 00:03:09,049
and we suddenly had rolling bedrooms?

72
00:03:09,073 --> 00:03:10,791
(Laughter)

73
00:03:10,815 --> 00:03:15,053
How about the introduction
of the birth control pill?

74
00:03:15,491 --> 00:03:20,788
Unchained from the great threat
of pregnancy and social ruin,

75
00:03:20,812 --> 00:03:25,236
women could finally express
their primitive and primal sexuality.

76
00:03:25,724 --> 00:03:28,741
Even dating sites are not changing love.

77
00:03:28,765 --> 00:03:31,323
I'm Chief Scientific Advisor to Match.com,

78
00:03:31,347 --> 00:03:33,027
I've been it for 11 years.

79
00:03:33,051 --> 00:03:35,055
I keep telling them
and they agree with me,

80
00:03:35,079 --> 00:03:36,618
that these are not dating sites,

81
00:03:36,642 --> 00:03:38,655
they are introducing sites.

82
00:03:39,017 --> 00:03:41,280
When you sit down in a bar,

83
00:03:41,304 --> 00:03:42,888
in a coffee house,

84
00:03:42,912 --> 00:03:44,268
on a park bench,

85
00:03:44,292 --> 00:03:49,297
your ancient brain snaps into action
like a sleeping cat awakened,

86
00:03:49,321 --> 00:03:50,620
and you smile

87
00:03:50,644 --> 00:03:51,802
and laugh

88
00:03:51,826 --> 00:03:53,008
and listen

89
00:03:53,032 --> 00:03:57,905
and parade the way our ancestors
did 100,000 years ago.

90
00:03:58,424 --> 00:04:00,377
We can give you various people --

91
00:04:00,401 --> 00:04:01,966
all the dating sites can --

92
00:04:01,990 --> 00:04:05,903
but the only real algorithm
is your own human brain.

93
00:04:05,927 --> 00:04:08,499
Technology is not going to change that.

94
00:04:09,041 --> 00:04:13,685
Technology is also not going to change
who you choose to love.

95
00:04:13,709 --> 00:04:16,405
I study the biology of personality,

96
00:04:16,429 --> 00:04:17,641
and I've come to believe

97
00:04:17,665 --> 00:04:21,948
that we've evolved four very broad
styles of thinking and behaving,

98
00:04:21,972 --> 00:04:23,802
linked with the dopamine, serotonin,

99
00:04:23,826 --> 00:04:26,004
testosterone and estrogen systems.

100
00:04:26,358 --> 00:04:30,511
So I created a questionnaire
directly from brain science

101
00:04:30,535 --> 00:04:33,677
to measure the degree to which
you express the traits --

102
00:04:33,701 --> 00:04:35,455
the constellation of traits --

103
00:04:35,479 --> 00:04:38,487
linked with each
of these four brain systems.

104
00:04:38,829 --> 00:04:43,697
I then put that questionnaire
on various dating sites

105
00:04:43,721 --> 00:04:45,363
in 40 countries.

106
00:04:45,969 --> 00:04:49,859
Fourteen million or more people
have now taken the questionnaire,

107
00:04:49,883 --> 00:04:53,808
and I've been able to watch
who's naturally drawn to whom.

108
00:04:54,462 --> 00:04:55,973
And as it turns out,

109
00:04:55,997 --> 00:04:58,566
those who were very expressive
of the dopamine system

110
00:04:58,590 --> 00:05:01,725
tend to be curious, creative,
spontaneous, energetic --

111
00:05:01,749 --> 00:05:05,200
I would imagine there's an awful lot
of people like that in this room --

112
00:05:05,224 --> 00:05:07,152
they're drawn to people like themselves.

113
00:05:07,176 --> 00:05:10,559
Curious, creative people
need people like themselves.

114
00:05:10,583 --> 00:05:13,221
People who are very expressive
of the serotonin system

115
00:05:13,245 --> 00:05:16,124
tend to be traditional, conventional,
they follow the rules,

116
00:05:16,148 --> 00:05:18,026
they respect authority,

117
00:05:18,050 --> 00:05:21,436
they tend to be religious -- religiosity
is in the serotonin system --

118
00:05:21,460 --> 00:05:24,797
and traditional people
go for traditional people.

119
00:05:24,821 --> 00:05:27,485
In that way, similarity attracts.

120
00:05:27,509 --> 00:05:29,731
In the other two cases, opposites attract.

121
00:05:29,755 --> 00:05:32,052
People very expressive
of the testosterone system

122
00:05:32,076 --> 00:05:35,999
tend to be analytical,
logical, direct, decisive,

123
00:05:36,023 --> 00:05:37,505
and they go for their opposite:

124
00:05:37,529 --> 00:05:39,782
they go for somebody who's high estrogen,

125
00:05:39,806 --> 00:05:42,048
somebody who's got very good verbal skills

126
00:05:42,072 --> 00:05:43,314
and people skills,

127
00:05:43,338 --> 00:05:44,786
who's very intuitive

128
00:05:44,810 --> 00:05:48,123
and who's very nurturing
and emotionally expressive.

129
00:05:48,519 --> 00:05:51,091
We have natural patterns of mate choice.

130
00:05:51,468 --> 00:05:56,524
Modern technology is not going
to change who we choose to love.

131
00:05:57,488 --> 00:06:00,041
But technology is producing
one modern trend

132
00:06:00,065 --> 00:06:01,801
that I find particularly important.

133
00:06:02,151 --> 00:06:05,839
It's associated with the concept
of paradox of choice.

134
00:06:06,372 --> 00:06:07,826
For millions of years,

135
00:06:07,850 --> 00:06:10,117
we lived in little hunting
and gathering groups.

136
00:06:10,141 --> 00:06:12,667
You didn't have the opportunity to choose

137
00:06:12,691 --> 00:06:15,801
between 1,000 people on a dating site.

138
00:06:16,261 --> 00:06:18,318
In fact, I've been studying this recently,

139
00:06:18,342 --> 00:06:21,497
and I actually think there's some
sort of sweet spot in the brain;

140
00:06:21,521 --> 00:06:25,472
I don't know what it is, but apparently,
from reading a lot of the data,

141
00:06:25,496 --> 00:06:30,647
we can embrace about five
to nine alternatives, and after that,

142
00:06:30,671 --> 00:06:33,891
you get into what academics
call "cognitive overload,"

143
00:06:33,915 --> 00:06:35,716
and you don't choose any.

144
00:06:36,175 --> 00:06:39,321
So I've come to think that due
to this cognitive overload,

145
00:06:39,345 --> 00:06:42,656
we're ushering in a new form of courtship

146
00:06:42,680 --> 00:06:44,625
that I call "slow love."

147
00:06:45,219 --> 00:06:48,766
I arrived at this during
my work with Match.com.

148
00:06:49,400 --> 00:06:51,081
Every year for the last six years,

149
00:06:51,105 --> 00:06:53,798
we've done a study called
"Singles in America."

150
00:06:53,822 --> 00:06:55,630
We don't poll the Match population,

151
00:06:55,654 --> 00:06:57,614
we poll the American population.

152
00:06:57,638 --> 00:07:00,607
We use 5,000-plus people,

153
00:07:00,631 --> 00:07:04,528
a representative sample of Americans
based on the US census.

154
00:07:04,552 --> 00:07:07,444
We've got data now on over 30,000 people,

155
00:07:07,468 --> 00:07:09,935
and every single year,

156
00:07:09,959 --> 00:07:12,485
I see some of the same patterns.

157
00:07:12,509 --> 00:07:15,288
Every single year when I ask the question,

158
00:07:15,312 --> 00:07:18,075
over 50 percent of people
have had a one-night stand --

159
00:07:18,099 --> 00:07:20,766
not necessarily last year,
but in their lives --

160
00:07:20,790 --> 00:07:23,063
50 percent have had
a friends with benefits

161
00:07:23,087 --> 00:07:24,694
during the course of their lives,

162
00:07:24,718 --> 00:07:28,286
and over 50 percent have lived
with a person long-term

163
00:07:28,310 --> 00:07:29,746
before marrying.

164
00:07:29,770 --> 00:07:31,972
Americans think that this is reckless.

165
00:07:31,996 --> 00:07:34,915
I have doubted that for a long time;

166
00:07:34,939 --> 00:07:36,831
the patterns are too strong.

167
00:07:36,855 --> 00:07:39,583
There's got to be some
Darwinian explanation --

168
00:07:39,607 --> 00:07:41,933
Not that many people are crazy.

169
00:07:41,957 --> 00:07:45,845
And I stumbled, then, on a statistic
that really came home to me.

170
00:07:46,267 --> 00:07:48,866
It was a very interesting academic article

171
00:07:48,890 --> 00:07:53,903
in which I found that 67 percent
of singles in America today

172
00:07:53,927 --> 00:07:56,341
who are living long-term with somebody,

173
00:07:56,365 --> 00:08:00,452
have not yet married because
they are terrified of divorce.

174
00:08:00,476 --> 00:08:02,332
They're terrified of the social,

175
00:08:02,356 --> 00:08:03,889
legal, emotional,

176
00:08:03,913 --> 00:08:06,782
economic consequences of divorce.

177
00:08:06,806 --> 00:08:10,564
So I came to realize that I don't think
this is recklessness;

178
00:08:10,588 --> 00:08:12,264
I think it's caution.

179
00:08:12,791 --> 00:08:17,813
Today's singles want to know
every single thing about a partner

180
00:08:17,837 --> 00:08:19,466
before they wed.

181
00:08:19,490 --> 00:08:21,419
You learn a lot between the sheets,

182
00:08:21,443 --> 00:08:23,955
not only about how somebody makes love,

183
00:08:23,979 --> 00:08:25,349
but whether they're kind,

184
00:08:25,373 --> 00:08:26,715
whether they can listen

185
00:08:26,739 --> 00:08:27,911
and at my age,

186
00:08:27,935 --> 00:08:29,713
whether they've got a sense of humor.

187
00:08:29,737 --> 00:08:31,140
(Laughter)

188
00:08:31,164 --> 00:08:34,618
And in an age where we have
too many choices,

189
00:08:35,075 --> 00:08:38,337
we have very little fear
of pregnancy and disease

190
00:08:38,361 --> 00:08:42,069
and we've got no feeling of shame
for sex before marriage,

191
00:08:42,093 --> 00:08:45,791
I think people are taking
their time to love.

192
00:08:46,408 --> 00:08:48,059
And actually, what's happening is,

193
00:08:48,083 --> 00:08:51,944
what we're seeing is a real expansion
of the precommitment stage

194
00:08:51,968 --> 00:08:53,704
before you tie the knot.

195
00:08:54,034 --> 00:08:56,760
Where marriage used to be
the beginning of a relationship,

196
00:08:56,784 --> 00:08:58,453
now it's the finale.

197
00:08:59,413 --> 00:09:01,153
But the human brain --

198
00:09:01,177 --> 00:09:03,186
(Laughter)

199
00:09:03,210 --> 00:09:05,024
The human brain always triumphs,

200
00:09:05,048 --> 00:09:06,943
and indeed, in the United States today,

201
00:09:06,967 --> 00:09:10,465
86 percent of Americans
will marry by age 49.

202
00:09:10,489 --> 00:09:14,035
And even in cultures around the world
where they're not marrying as often,

203
00:09:14,059 --> 00:09:17,334
they are settling down eventually
with a long-term partner.

204
00:09:17,358 --> 00:09:19,193
So it began to occur to me:

205
00:09:19,217 --> 00:09:23,784
during this long extension
of the precommitment stage,

206
00:09:23,808 --> 00:09:26,981
if you can get rid of bad
relationships before you marry,

207
00:09:27,005 --> 00:09:29,452
maybe we're going to see
more happy marriages.

208
00:09:29,838 --> 00:09:34,713
So I did a study of 1,100
married people in America --

209
00:09:34,737 --> 00:09:36,464
not on Match.com, of course --

210
00:09:36,488 --> 00:09:38,604
and I asked them a lot of questions.

211
00:09:38,628 --> 00:09:40,135
But one of the questions was,

212
00:09:40,159 --> 00:09:44,731
"Would you re-marry the person
you're currently married to?"

213
00:09:44,755 --> 00:09:47,620
And 81 percent said, "Yes."

214
00:09:48,613 --> 00:09:55,092
In fact, the greatest change
in modern romance and family life

215
00:09:55,116 --> 00:09:56,516
is not technology.

216
00:09:57,070 --> 00:09:58,564
It's not even slow love.

217
00:09:59,047 --> 00:10:01,998
It's actually women
piling into the job market

218
00:10:02,022 --> 00:10:03,445
in cultures around the world.

219
00:10:03,767 --> 00:10:04,996
For millions of years,

220
00:10:05,020 --> 00:10:07,990
our ancestors lived
in little hunting and gathering groups.

221
00:10:08,014 --> 00:10:10,919
Women commuted to work
to gather their fruits and vegetables.

222
00:10:10,943 --> 00:10:14,453
They came home with 60 to 80
percent of the evening meal.

223
00:10:14,477 --> 00:10:17,170
The double-income family was the rule.

224
00:10:17,194 --> 00:10:21,135
And women were regarded
as just as economically, socially

225
00:10:21,159 --> 00:10:24,274
and sexually powerful as men.

226
00:10:24,298 --> 00:10:27,400
Then the environment changed
some 10,000 years ago,

227
00:10:27,424 --> 00:10:29,653
we began to settle down on the farm

228
00:10:29,677 --> 00:10:32,868
and both men and women
became obliged, really,

229
00:10:32,892 --> 00:10:34,464
to marry the right person,

230
00:10:34,488 --> 00:10:35,918
from the right background,

231
00:10:35,942 --> 00:10:37,245
from the right religion

232
00:10:37,269 --> 00:10:40,807
and from the right kin
and social and political connections.

233
00:10:40,831 --> 00:10:42,425
Men's jobs became more important:

234
00:10:42,449 --> 00:10:45,186
they had to move the rocks,
fell the trees, plow the land.

235
00:10:45,210 --> 00:10:48,134
They brought the produce
to local markets, and came home

236
00:10:48,158 --> 00:10:49,672
with the equivalent of money.

237
00:10:49,696 --> 00:10:51,242
Along with this,

238
00:10:51,266 --> 00:10:54,243
we see a rise of a host of beliefs:

239
00:10:54,267 --> 00:10:56,449
the belief of virginity at marriage,

240
00:10:56,473 --> 00:10:59,416
arranged marriages --
strictly arranged marriages --

241
00:10:59,440 --> 00:11:01,967
the belief that the man
is the head of the household,

242
00:11:01,991 --> 00:11:04,230
that the wife's place is in the home

243
00:11:04,254 --> 00:11:05,407
and most important,

244
00:11:05,431 --> 00:11:08,562
honor thy husband,
and 'til death do us part.

245
00:11:08,586 --> 00:11:10,308
These are gone.

246
00:11:10,332 --> 00:11:12,881
They are going, and in many places,

247
00:11:12,905 --> 00:11:14,293
they are gone.

248
00:11:14,317 --> 00:11:17,740
We are right now in a marriage revolution.

249
00:11:17,764 --> 00:11:22,479
We are shedding 10,000 years
of our farming tradition

250
00:11:22,503 --> 00:11:28,129
and moving forward towards egalitarian
relationships between the sexes --

251
00:11:28,153 --> 00:11:32,968
something I regard as highly compatible
with the ancient human spirit.

252
00:11:33,562 --> 00:11:35,264
I'm not a Pollyanna;

253
00:11:35,288 --> 00:11:37,049
there's a great deal to cry about.

254
00:11:37,073 --> 00:11:38,819
I've studied divorce in 80 cultures,

255
00:11:38,843 --> 00:11:40,979
I've studied, as I say,
adultery in many --

256
00:11:41,003 --> 00:11:42,819
there's a whole pile of problems.

257
00:11:42,843 --> 00:11:46,035
As William Butler Yeats,
the poet, once said,

258
00:11:46,059 --> 00:11:48,524
"Love is the crooked thing."

259
00:11:49,131 --> 00:11:51,921
I would add, "Nobody gets out alive."

260
00:11:51,945 --> 00:11:53,040
(Laughter)

261
00:11:53,064 --> 00:11:54,531
We all have problems.

262
00:11:54,925 --> 00:11:58,529
But in fact, I think the poet
Randall Jarrell really sums it up best.

263
00:11:58,553 --> 00:12:03,552
He said, "The dark, uneasy world
of family life --

264
00:12:03,576 --> 00:12:08,094
where the greatest can fail,
and the humblest succeed."

265
00:12:08,779 --> 00:12:10,666
But I will leave you with this:

266
00:12:10,690 --> 00:12:13,418
love and attachment will prevail,

267
00:12:13,442 --> 00:12:15,975
technology cannot change it.

268
00:12:15,999 --> 00:12:17,837
And I will conclude by saying

269
00:12:17,861 --> 00:12:23,107
any understanding of human relationships
must take into account

270
00:12:23,131 --> 00:12:27,356
one the most powerful determinants
of human behavior:

271
00:12:27,380 --> 00:12:28,598
the unquenchable,

272
00:12:29,217 --> 00:12:30,382
adaptable

273
00:12:30,789 --> 00:12:33,795
and primordial human drive to love.

274
00:12:33,819 --> 00:12:34,971
Thank you.

275
00:12:34,995 --> 00:12:38,017
(Applause)

276
00:12:39,915 --> 00:12:42,296
Kelly Stoetzel: Thank you
so much for that, Helen.

277
00:12:42,320 --> 00:12:44,629
As you know, there's another
speaker here with us

278
00:12:44,653 --> 00:12:46,203
that works in your same field.

279
00:12:46,227 --> 00:12:48,658
She comes at it
from a different perspective.

280
00:12:48,682 --> 00:12:53,319
Esther Perel is a psychotherapist
who works with couples.

281
00:12:53,749 --> 00:12:55,042
You study data,

282
00:12:55,066 --> 00:12:57,566
Esther studies the stories
the couples tell her

283
00:12:57,590 --> 00:12:59,618
when they come to her for help.

284
00:12:59,642 --> 00:13:01,366
Let's have her join us on the stage.

285
00:13:01,390 --> 00:13:02,541
Esther?

286
00:13:02,565 --> 00:13:05,696
(Applause)

287
00:13:10,249 --> 00:13:11,495
So Esther,

288
00:13:11,519 --> 00:13:13,791
when you were watching Helen's talk,

289
00:13:13,815 --> 00:13:15,021
was there any part of it

290
00:13:15,045 --> 00:13:17,812
that resonated with you
through the lens of your own work

291
00:13:17,836 --> 00:13:19,421
that you'd like to comment on?

292
00:13:20,062 --> 00:13:23,641
Esther Perel: It's interesting,
because on the one hand,

293
00:13:23,665 --> 00:13:27,494
the need for love
is ubiquitous and universal.

294
00:13:27,965 --> 00:13:29,929
But the way we love --

295
00:13:29,953 --> 00:13:31,483
the meaning we make out of it --

296
00:13:31,507 --> 00:13:33,832
the rules that govern
our relationships, I think,

297
00:13:33,856 --> 00:13:35,883
are changing fundamentally.

298
00:13:35,907 --> 00:13:38,807
We come from a model that, until now,

299
00:13:38,831 --> 00:13:42,294
was primarily regulated
around duty and obligation,

300
00:13:42,318 --> 00:13:44,715
the needs of the collective and loyalty.

301
00:13:44,739 --> 00:13:45,919
And we have shifted it

302
00:13:45,943 --> 00:13:50,273
to a model of free choice
and individual rights,

303
00:13:50,297 --> 00:13:53,373
and self-fulfillment and happiness.

304
00:13:53,397 --> 00:13:55,717
And so, that was
the first thing I thought,

305
00:13:55,741 --> 00:13:57,509
that the need doesn't change,

306
00:13:57,533 --> 00:14:01,341
but the context and the way
we regulate these relationships

307
00:14:01,365 --> 00:14:02,643
changes a lot.

308
00:14:02,667 --> 00:14:04,507
On the paradox of choice --

309
00:14:06,682 --> 00:14:09,009
you know, on the one hand
we relish the novelty

310
00:14:09,033 --> 00:14:10,625
and the playfulness, I think,

311
00:14:10,649 --> 00:14:13,360
to be able to have so many options.

312
00:14:13,384 --> 00:14:14,745
And at the same time,

313
00:14:14,769 --> 00:14:17,183
as you talk about this cognitive overload,

314
00:14:17,207 --> 00:14:20,655
I see many, many people who ...

315
00:14:22,391 --> 00:14:26,497
who dread the uncertainty and self-doubt

316
00:14:26,521 --> 00:14:29,070
that comes with this massa of choice,

317
00:14:29,094 --> 00:14:31,353
creating a case of "FOMO"

318
00:14:31,377 --> 00:14:33,019
and then leading us --

319
00:14:33,043 --> 00:14:36,358
FOMO, fear of missed opportunity,
or fear of missing out --

320
00:14:36,382 --> 00:14:39,340
it's like, "How do I know
I have found 'the one' --

321
00:14:39,364 --> 00:14:40,536
the right one?"

322
00:14:40,560 --> 00:14:44,243
So we've created what I call
this thing of "stable ambiguity."

323
00:14:44,600 --> 00:14:48,305
Stable ambiguity is when
you are too afraid to be alone,

324
00:14:48,329 --> 00:14:52,364
but also not really willing
to engage in intimacy-building.

325
00:14:52,388 --> 00:14:57,682
It's a set of tactics that kind of prolong
the uncertainty of a relationship

326
00:14:57,706 --> 00:15:00,313
but also the uncertainty of the breakup.

327
00:15:00,337 --> 00:15:03,319
So, here on the internet
you have three major ones.

328
00:15:03,343 --> 00:15:05,664
One is icing and simmering,

329
00:15:05,688 --> 00:15:08,563
which are great stalling tactics

330
00:15:08,587 --> 00:15:11,064
that offer a kind of holding pattern

331
00:15:11,088 --> 00:15:14,882
that emphasizes the undefined
nature of a relationship,

332
00:15:14,906 --> 00:15:19,013
but at the same time gives you
enough of a comforting consistency

333
00:15:19,037 --> 00:15:21,794
and enough freedom
of the undefined boundaries.

334
00:15:21,818 --> 00:15:23,644
(Laughter)

335
00:15:24,070 --> 00:15:25,240
Yeah?

336
00:15:25,264 --> 00:15:26,812
And then comes ghosting.

337
00:15:26,836 --> 00:15:28,808
And ghosting is, basically,

338
00:15:28,832 --> 00:15:33,352
you disappear from this massa
of texts on the spot,

339
00:15:33,376 --> 00:15:37,161
and you don't have to deal with
the pain that you inflict on another,

340
00:15:37,185 --> 00:15:39,783
because you're making it
invisible even to yourself.

341
00:15:39,807 --> 00:15:40,994
(Laughter)

342
00:15:41,018 --> 00:15:42,176
Yeah?

343
00:15:42,200 --> 00:15:46,937
So I was thinking -- these words came up
for me as I was listening to you,

344
00:15:46,961 --> 00:15:52,124
like how a vocabulary
also creates a reality,

345
00:15:52,148 --> 00:15:53,703
and at the same time,

346
00:15:53,727 --> 00:15:55,411
that's my question to you:

347
00:15:55,435 --> 00:15:58,375
Do you think when the context changes,

348
00:15:58,399 --> 00:16:02,039
it still means that the nature
of love remains the same?

349
00:16:02,063 --> 00:16:06,161
You study the brain and I study
people's relationships and stories,

350
00:16:06,185 --> 00:16:10,171
so I think it's everything you say, plus.

351
00:16:10,691 --> 00:16:14,593
But I don't always know the degree
to which a changing context ...

352
00:16:15,451 --> 00:16:17,981
Does it at some point begin to change --

353
00:16:18,005 --> 00:16:20,618
If the meaning changes,
does it change the need,

354
00:16:20,642 --> 00:16:23,105
or is the need clear
of the entire context?

355
00:16:23,797 --> 00:16:25,217
HF: Wow! Well --

356
00:16:25,241 --> 00:16:27,672
(Laughter)

357
00:16:27,696 --> 00:16:30,871
(Applause)

358
00:16:30,895 --> 00:16:33,863
Well, I've got three points here, right?

359
00:16:34,736 --> 00:16:36,562
First of all, to your first one:

360
00:16:36,586 --> 00:16:40,179
there's no question that we've changed,
that we now want a person to love,

361
00:16:40,203 --> 00:16:43,048
and for thousands of years,
we had to marry the right person

362
00:16:43,072 --> 00:16:45,343
from the right background
and right connection.

363
00:16:45,367 --> 00:16:48,718
And in fact, in my studies
of 5,000 people every year,

364
00:16:48,742 --> 00:16:50,868
I ask them, "What are you looking for?"

365
00:16:50,892 --> 00:16:53,650
And every single year,
over 97 percent say --

366
00:16:53,674 --> 00:16:54,884
EP: And this grows --

367
00:16:54,908 --> 00:16:56,068
HF: Well, no.

368
00:16:56,092 --> 00:16:59,415
The basic thing is
over 97 percent of people

369
00:16:59,439 --> 00:17:01,530
want somebody that respects them,

370
00:17:01,554 --> 00:17:03,842
somebody they can trust and confide in,

371
00:17:03,866 --> 00:17:05,522
somebody who makes them laugh,

372
00:17:05,546 --> 00:17:07,428
somebody who makes enough time for them

373
00:17:07,452 --> 00:17:11,449
and somebody who they find
physically attractive.

374
00:17:11,473 --> 00:17:12,756
That never changes.

375
00:17:12,780 --> 00:17:15,958
And there's certainly -- you know,
there's two parts --

376
00:17:15,982 --> 00:17:17,562
EP: But you know how I call that?

377
00:17:17,586 --> 00:17:19,836
That's not what people used to say --

378
00:17:19,860 --> 00:17:21,090
HF: That's exactly right.

379
00:17:21,114 --> 00:17:24,413
EP: They said they wanted somebody
with whom they have companionship,

380
00:17:24,437 --> 00:17:25,728
economic support, children.

381
00:17:25,752 --> 00:17:28,338
We went from a production economy
to a service economy.

382
00:17:28,362 --> 00:17:29,371
(Laughter)

383
00:17:29,395 --> 00:17:32,376
We did it in the larger culture
and we're doing it in marriage.

384
00:17:32,400 --> 00:17:33,948
HF: Right, no question about it.

385
00:17:33,972 --> 00:17:37,882
But it's interesting, the millennials
actually want to be very good parents,

386
00:17:37,906 --> 00:17:42,026
whereas the generation above them
wants to have a very fine marriage

387
00:17:42,050 --> 00:17:44,272
but is not as focused
on being a good parent.

388
00:17:44,296 --> 00:17:46,379
You see all of these nuances.

389
00:17:46,403 --> 00:17:48,959
There's two basic parts of personality:

390
00:17:48,983 --> 00:17:52,558
there's your culture -- everything you
grew up to do and believe and say --

391
00:17:52,582 --> 00:17:53,981
and there's your temperament.

392
00:17:54,005 --> 00:17:56,832
Basically, what I've been talking
about is your temperament.

393
00:17:56,856 --> 00:18:00,174
And that temperament is certainly
going to change with changing times

394
00:18:00,198 --> 00:18:01,499
and changing beliefs.

395
00:18:01,891 --> 00:18:05,038
And in terms of the paradox of choice,

396
00:18:05,062 --> 00:18:07,469
there's no question about it
that this is a pickle.

397
00:18:07,493 --> 00:18:10,357
There were millions of years
where you found that sweet boy

398
00:18:10,381 --> 00:18:12,106
at the other side of the water hole,

399
00:18:12,130 --> 00:18:13,281
and you went for it.

400
00:18:13,305 --> 00:18:14,456
EP: Yes, but you --

401
00:18:14,480 --> 00:18:16,227
HF: I do want to say one more thing.

402
00:18:16,251 --> 00:18:18,868
The bottom line is, in hunting
and gathering societies,

403
00:18:18,892 --> 00:18:22,490
they tended to have two or three partners
during the course of their lives.

404
00:18:22,514 --> 00:18:23,672
They weren't square!

405
00:18:23,696 --> 00:18:25,352
And I'm not suggesting that we do,

406
00:18:25,376 --> 00:18:29,352
but the bottom line is,
we've always had alternatives.

407
00:18:29,376 --> 00:18:30,855
Mankind is always --

408
00:18:30,879 --> 00:18:34,071
in fact, the brain is well-built
to what we call "equilibrate,"

409
00:18:34,095 --> 00:18:35,246
to try and decide:

410
00:18:35,270 --> 00:18:37,704
Do I come, do I stay? Do I go, do I stay?

411
00:18:37,728 --> 00:18:39,276
What are the opportunities here?

412
00:18:39,300 --> 00:18:40,602
How do I handle this there?

413
00:18:40,626 --> 00:18:43,587
And so I think we're seeing
another play-out of that now.

414
00:18:44,052 --> 00:18:45,675
KS: Well, thank you both so much.

415
00:18:45,699 --> 00:18:48,905
I think you're going to have
a million dinner partners for tonight!

416
00:18:48,929 --> 00:18:50,908
(Applause)

417
00:18:50,932 --> 00:18:52,113
Thank you, thank you.