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RC3 preroll music
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Herald: Welcome back on the channel, of
Chaos zone TV. Now we have an English
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speaking contribution. And for that, I
welcome pandemonium, who is a historian
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and documentary film maker, and therefore
we will also not have a normal talk, but
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we will see the documentary information.
What are they looking at? A documentary on
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privacy. And afterwards, we can all talk
about the film, so feel free to post your
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questions and we can discuss them. Let's
enjoy the film.
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film started
[Filler please remove in amara]
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---Because the great promise of the
internet is freedom. Freedom of
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expression, freedom of organization,
freedom of assembly. These are really seen
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as underpinning rights of what we see as
democratic values.
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---Just because you have safety does not
mean that you cannot have freedom. Just
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because you have freedom does not mean you
cannot have safety.
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---Why is the reaction to doubt it rather
than to assume that it's true and act
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accordingly?
---We need to be able to break those laws
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that are unjust.
---Privacy is an essence, becoming a de
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facto crime. That is somehow you are
hiding something.
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---So just to be sure let's have no
privacy.
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"Information, what are they looking at? A
film by Theresia Reinhold.
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"The Internet is [...] everywhere, but we
only see it in the glimpses. The internet
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is like the wholy ghost: it makes itself
knowable to us by taking possession of the
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pixels on our screens to manifest sites
and apps and email, but its essence is
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always elsewhere.
---Before the Internet came about,
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communication was generally one editor to
many, many readers. But now it's peer to
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peer. So, you know, at a touch of a button
people have an opportunity to reach
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millions of people. That's revolutionizing
the way we communicate.
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---One of the things that Facebook and to
a lesser degree Twitter allowed people to
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do is be able to see that they weren't
alone. And it was able to create a
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critical mass. And I think that's a very
important role that social media took on.
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It was able to show people a very easy way
in people's Facebook feeds: "Oh, wow. Look
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at Tahrir Square, there's people out there
in Bahrain, in Pearl Square." What people
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could feel before walking out their door
into real life action, that they could see
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that they are not isolated in their desire
for some sort of change.
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---The great promise of the internet is
freedom where the minds without fear and
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the head is held high. And the knowledge
is free. Because the promise was: This
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will be the great equalizer.
---Before the social web, before the Web
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2.0, anything you were doing was kind of
anonymous. By the very concept of
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anonymity you were able to discuss things
that would probably be not according to
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dominance themes or the dominant trends of
values of your own society.
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---I don't find this discussion about how
to deal with the assertion "I have nothing
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to hide" boring, even after many years.
Because this sentence is very short, but
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very perfidious. The speaker, who hurls
the sentence "I have nothing to hide" at
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me, not only says something about
themselves, but also something about me.
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Because this sentence "I have nothing to
hide" also has the unspoken component of
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"You don't either, do you?" In this
respect, I think this sentence lacks
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solidarity, because at the same time one
does not want to work to ensure that the
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other, who perhaps has something to hide,
is able to do so.
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---One of the things about privacy is that
it's not always about you. It's about the
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people in our networks. And so, for
example, I have a lot of friends who are
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from Syria. People that I have met in
other places in the world, not necessary
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refugees. People who lived abroad for a
while, but those people are at risk all
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the time. Both in their home country and
often in their host countries as well. And
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so, I might say that I have nothing to
hide. I might say that there's no reason
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that I need to keep myself safe. But if
you've got any more like that in a
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network, any activists, any people from
countries like that, it's thinking about
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privacy and thinking about security means
thinking about keeping those people safe,
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too.
Privacy is important, because if think of
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the alternative, if everything is public,
if the norm is public, then anything that
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you want to keep to yourself has an
association or guild attached. And that
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should not be the world that we create.
That's a chilling effect. It's a chilling
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effect on our freedoms. It's a chilling
effect on democracy.
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"No one shall be subjected to arbitrary
interference with this privacy, family,
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home or correspondence, for the attacks
upon his honor and reputation. Everyone
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has the right to the protection of the law
against such interference or attacks.
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---To me, human rights are something which
has been put to place to guarantee the
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freedoms of every single person in the
world. They're supposed to be universal,
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indivisible. Having in the eyes of this
systems.
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---They're collecting data and metadata
about hundreds of thousands, millions of
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people. And some of that data will never
be looked at. That's a fact. We know that.
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But at the same time, assuming that just
because you're not involved in activism or
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you're not well known that you're not
going to be a target at some point, I
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think, that is what can be really harmful
to us. Right now you may not be under any
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threat at all, but your friends might be,
your family might be or you might be in
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the future. And so that's why we need to
think about it this way, not because we're
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going to be snatched out of our homes in
the middle of the night now. But because
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this data and this metadata lasts for a
long time.
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---My observation is what we are
experiencing right now is that the private
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space that should be and remain private in
the digital world is slowly beginning to
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erode. It is becoming permeable, and not
just factual. Factually, of course, but
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not only factually, but also in
perception. I imagine the digital world as
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a panoptical. This is the ring-shaped
building designed by Jeremy Benthem. In
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the ring the prisoners are accommodated in
the individual cell, and in the middle
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there is a watchtower. And there is a
guard sitting there. And this guard, who
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can observe and supervise the prisoners in
the cells around him all the time. The
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trick is that the prisoners cannot know if
they are being watched. They only see the
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tower, but they don't see the warden. But
they know very well that they could be
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watched permanently at any time. And this
fact exerts a changing decisive effect.
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---I think surveillance is a technology of
governmentality. It's a bio political
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technology. It's there to control and
manage populations. It's really propelled
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by state power and the power of entities
that are glued in that cohere around the
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state, right? So it is there as a form of
population management and control. So you
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have to convince people that it's in their
interest and its like: Every man for
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himself and everyone is out to get
everyone.
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relaying music is plays
[Filler please remove in amara]
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---I take my cue from a former general
counsel of the NSA, Suart Baker, who said
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on this question: Meta-Data absolutely
tells you everything about somebodies
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life. If you have enough Meta-Data you
don't really need content. It is sort of
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embarrassing, how predictable we are as
human beings.
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---So let's say that you make a phone one
night, you call up a suicide hotline, for
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example, you're feeling down, you call
that hotline and then a few hours later
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maybe you call a friend. A few hours later
you call a doctor, you send an email and
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so on so forth. Now, the contents of that
of those calls and those e-mails are not
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necessarily collected. What's being
collected is the time of the call and the
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place that you called. And so sometimes in
events like that, those different pieces
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of metadata can be linked together to
profile someone.
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---David's description of what you can do
with metadata, and quoting a mutual friend
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Stewart Baker, is absolutely correct. We
kill people based on Meta-Data. But that
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is not what we do with this Meta-Data.
Mayor Denett: Thankfully. Wow, I was
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working up a sweat there Mayor laughs
for a second.
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---You know, the impetus for governments
for conducting this kind of surveillance
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is often at least in rhetoric go to after
terrorists. And obviously, we don't want
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terrorism. And so that justification
resonates with most of the public. But I
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think that there's a couple problems with
it. The first is that they haven't
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demonstrated to us that surveillance
actually works in stopping terrorist
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attacks. We haven't seen it work yet. It
didn't work in Paris. It didn't work in
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Boston. t didn't work elsewhere. So that's
one part of it. But then I think the other
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part of it is that we spend billions of
dollars on surveillance and on war, but
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spend very little money on addressing the
root causes of terrorism.
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---I consider this debate security versus
freedom to be a bugaboo. Because these
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values are not mutually exclusive. I'm not
buying into this propaganda anymore. Many
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of the measures we have endured in the
last ten years have not led to more
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security, in terms of state-imposed
surveillance. And this is one reason why I
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don't want to continue this debate about
whether we should sacrifice freedom for
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more security.
---I think power is concealed in the whole
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discourse around surveillance, and the way
its concealed is through this
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legitimization that it's in your interest
that it keeps you safe. But there have
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been many instances where citizens groups
have actually fought against that kind of
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surveillance. And I think there is also
sort of a mystique around music starts
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the technology of surveillance. There is
the whole sort of like this notion that,
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ah, because it's a technology and it's
designed to do this. It's actually
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working. But all of this is a concealment
of power relations because who can surveil
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who? Is the issue, right?
---But it isn't the majority of the
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English population here to get stopped and
searched. It's non-white people. It is not
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the majority of non-white people who get
approached to inform on the community.
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It's Muslim communities.
---The surveillance that one does on the
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other. So as airport, it's the other
passengers that say, oh, so-and-so is
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speaking in Arabic. And therefore, that
person becomes the subject, the target
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that hyper-surveillance. So it's the kind
of surveillances that are being exercised
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by each of us on the other. Because of
this culture of fear that has been
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nourished on a way and that's mushrooming
all around us. And these are fears, I
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think, go anywhere from the most concrete
to the most vague.
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---In this way, I think this is another
way of creating a semblance of control
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where this identity is very easily
visible. It's very easily targeted and
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it's very easily defined.
---For me, this political discussion is
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purely based on fear in which the fear of
people, which is justified, are exploited.
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And where racist stereotypes are being
repeated. I think it extremely dangerous
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to give in to this more and more, also
because I believe that it reinforces
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negative instincts in people. Exclusion,
but also racial profiling.
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Kurz: It's inherently disentranchising,
it's disempowering and it's isolating.
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When you feel you're being treated as a
different person to the rest of the
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population, that's when measures like
surveillance, things that are enabled by
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technology really hit home. And cause you
to sort of change that way you feel as a
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subject. Because at the end of the day,
you are subjective of a government.
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---How is it that these mass surveillance
programs have been kept secret for years
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when they are supposed to be so meaningful
and effective? Why didn't anyone publicly
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justify it? Then why was it all secretly
justified by secret courts with secret
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court rulings? Why, after the Snowden
publications began, did the Commission of
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intelligent Agents, which specifically
appointed Obama com to the conclusion that
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not a single --zero --- of this cases of
terror or attempted terrorist attacks has
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been partially resolved by these giant
telecommunications metadata? In trying to
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stop something from happening before it
happens, they can put in a measure and
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that thing might not happen. But they
don't know it that measure stopped that
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thing from happening, because that thing
never happened. It's hard to measure. You
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can't measure it. And you can't say with
certainty thst because of this measure
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that that didn't happen. But after 9/11,
after the catastrophic level of attack, it
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put decision makers into this impossible
position where citizens where scared. They
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needed to do something. One part of that
is trying to screen everybody objectively
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and have that sort of panoptical
surveillance. Saying that: "No, no. We can
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see everything. Don't worry. We have the
haystack. We just need to find the needle.
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But then obviously, they need ways to
target that. You can see it most clearly
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over here. You got leaflets through your
door a few years ago, basically saying
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that if you've seen anything suspicious,
call this hotline. It listed things like
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the neighbor who goes away on holiday many
times a year or, another neighbor whose
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curtains are always drawn. It just changes
the way you look at society and you look
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at yourself. And it shifts the presumption
of Innocence to a presumption of guilt
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already.
---When is someone a potential suicide
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bomber? This is where the problem begins.
When they wear an explosive belt and holds
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the tiger in their hands? Or when they
order the building blocks for an explosive
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belt online? Or when they informed
themselves about how to build an explosive
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vest? When can the state legally
intervene? For me it is about the central
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very problematic question whether someone
who very problematic question whether
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someone who has been identified as a
potential danger or a potential terrorist,
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without being a terrorist, if someone like
that can then be legally surveilled or
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even arrested? That means if certain
people by potentially posing a concrete
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danger ot society can be stripped of,
their fundamental human rights?
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---We face am unprecedented threat which
will last
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Two days after the attacks in Brüssel on
the 22.03.2016 Jean Claude Juncker and the
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french prime minister held a join pres
conference. But we also believe that we
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need to be a union of security. In it
Juncker called to the ministers to accept
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a proposal by the commision for the
propection of the EU.
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---For over 15 years now we have observed
a big populist push to adopt even more
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surveillance measures. With the attacks of
the past years, there was the opportunity
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to pass even more. We have this proposal
for a new directive whose contents a
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purely based on ideology.
The Text of the law passed in summary
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proceedings was adopteed as an anti-
terrorism directive. Green Member of
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Parlament Jan Phillipp Albrecht wrote in
an Statement to Netzpolitik.org: "What the
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Directive defines as Terrorism could be
used by governments to criminalize
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political action or political protest".
---These type of laws actually are neutral
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in principle. In praxis, they are very
discrimantory. If you talk to any
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politician right now of the EU level or at
the national or local level they will tell
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you that most likely this people are
Muslims.
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---Historically and Philosophically this
problem is well known to us. We always
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tend to put everithing which is unpleasant
or eene to us, to the horizon. "This is
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strange ti us. It is done by others, not
by us." And when one of us does it thent
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they have to be distributed.
---And this is Edward Said's point of view
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that the western seit comes to define
itself in relation to this eastern other.
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So everything that the West was, the East
was'nt and everything that the East was,
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the West wasn't. Ans so the East became
this province of emotionality,
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irrationality. And the West became the
source of reason, everything controlled
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and contained and so forth. And it is this
dichotomy that continues to play itself
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out.
---Terrorism emerged as a term for the
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first time in context of the French
Revolution. The Jacobins who under
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Rebesprierre were the reign of terror,
those where the first Terrorists, that's
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what they called. The first terrorism was
the terrorism of the state and of course
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this also included the systematic
monitoring of Conterrevoliners.
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---Where the proposal of the directive
says that it complies with human rights.
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It actually does not because they want to
increase surveillance measures in order
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for the population to feel safer. However,
we've seen that more repressive measure do
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not necessarily mean that you would have
more security.
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---The way you sell it to people is to
appease their sense of anxieties around
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"Oh, this is an insecure world. Anything
could happen at any time. And so if
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anything could happen at any time, what
can we do about it?
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---You gut the feeling that the text is
trying to make sure that few enforecment
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will be able to get access to
communications by any means that they
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wish.
---To be able to stop something from
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happening before it happens, you have to
know everything. You have to look at the
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past, look at what happened, but also
predict the future by looking at the past
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and then getting as much information as
you can on everything all the time. So
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it's about zero risk.
Kurz: All developed democraties have a
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concept of like proporionality, that's
what the call it in Germany. that
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surveillance measures are weighed up
against the repeat for fundamental rights.
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This undoubtly includes privacy. Privacy
is very highly viewed in Germany and
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directly derived from human dignity. And
human dignity is only negotiable to very
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tiny degree.
---When we are afraid to speak either
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because of our government coming after us
because of a partner or a boss or
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whomever. All sorts of surveillance causes
self censorship. But I think that mass
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surveillance. The idea that everything we
are doing is being collected can cause a
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lot of people to think twice before they
open their mouths.
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---When all your likes can be traced back
to you of course it affects your
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behaviour. Of couse it's usually the case
that sometimes you think: If you like this
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thing or if you don't, it would have some
social repressions.
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---But if you look throughout history, the
Reformation, the gay rights movements all
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these movements where illegal in some way.
If not by law, stricktly, then by culture.
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And if we'd this kind of mass surveillance
would we have had this movements?
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---If all laws were absolutes, then we
would never have progressed to the point
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where women had equal rights because women
had to break the laws. That said: "You
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can't have equal rights". Black people in
America had to break the laws that said
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they could not have equal rights. And
there's common thread here. You know a lot
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of our laws historically have had the
harshest effect on the most vulnerable in
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society.
Kurz: The components of whomever has
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something to hide has to blame only
themselves only emerged in recent years.
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In particular, the former CEO of Google
Eric Smith is known for that of course, he
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certyinly said that.
"If you have something that you don't want
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anyone to know, maybe you shouldn't be
dooing it on the first place. " But this
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is so hostile to humans that is almost
funny. You could think it is satire. A lot
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of people can't help that they have
something to hide in a society, that is
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unjust. *wieder Eric Shmid" "But if you
really need that kind of privacy, the
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reallity is that search changes including
google to retain that information for some
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time. "
---Big corporations that have this
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business model of people farming are
interested in you becaurse you are the row
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materials. Right. Your Infromation is row
materials. What they do is they process
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that to build a profile of you. And that's
where the real value is. Because if I know
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enough about you, if I as much information
about you that I can build a very
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lifelike, constantly evolving picture of
you, a s simpulation of you. That's very
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vulnerable.
---The economy of the net is predicting
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human behaviour, so that eyeballls can be
delivered to advertising and that's
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targeting advertising.
---The system in ways is set up for them
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to make money and sell our lettle bits of
data, our interests, our demographics for
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other people and for advertisers to be
able to sell things. These companies know
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more about us than we know about
ourselves. Right now we're feeding the
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beast. And right now, there's very little
oversight.
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---It has to reach one person, the same ad
at particular time, if at 3:00 p.m. you
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buy the soda you get your lunch. How about
2:55pm you'll get an ad about a discount
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about a pizza place next door or a salad
place. Where had exactly the soda comes.
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So that's what targeted advertising is.
---It is true, it is convinient. You know,
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I always laugh every time I'm on a site.
I'm looking at, let's say, a sweater I
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want to buy. And then I move over to
another site and it advertising for that
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same sweater. It pops up and reminds me
how much I want it. It's both convinient
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and annoying.
---It's a pity that some of the greatest
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minds in our century are only wondering
how to make you look advertising. And
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that's where the surveillance economy
beginns, I will say, and not just ends.
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---To a lot of people that may seem much
less harmful. Bur the fact that they're
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capturing this date means that data exists
and we don't who they might share it with.
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---There is whole new business now, you
know, data brokers who drew upon, you
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know, thousands of data points and create
client profiles to sell to companies. Now,
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you don't really know what happens with
this kind of things. So it is hard to
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tell, what the implications are until it
is too late. Until it happens.
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---The Stasi compared to Google or
Facebook, where amateurs, the Stasi
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actually had to use people to surcail you
to spy on you. That was expensive. It was
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time consuming. They had to pick targets.
It was very expensive for them to have all
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of these people spying on you. Facebook
and Google don't have to do that. They use
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Algorithms, that's the mass in mass
surveillance. The fact that it is so
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cheap, so convenient to spy on so many
people. And it's not a conspiracy theory.
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You don't need conspiracies when you have
the simplicity of business models.
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---When we talk about algorithms, we
actually talk about logic. When you want,
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for example, buy a book on Amazon. You
have always seen a few other suggestions.
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These suggestions are produced for you
based on the history of your preferences,
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the history of your searches.
---They learn by making mistakes. And the
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thing is, that's fine if it's like selling
dog feed. But it's about predictive
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pollicing and about creating a matrix
where you see which individuals are
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threatening, that's not ok for me. You
know, that has to be limits. There has to
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be lines. And these are all the dynamics
that are coming from the bottom up. These
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are the discussions that need to be had,
but they need to be had with all actors.
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It's can't just be a an echo chamber. You
don't talk to the some people who agree
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with you.
---So one consequence of this would be
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many minorities or many people who have
minority views would be silenced. And we
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always know that when a minority view is
silenced, it would empower them in a way
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and it would radicalize them in the long
run. This is one aspect. The other is that
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you would never be challenged by anyone,
who disagrees with you.
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---We have to understand that our data is
not exhaust. Our data is not oil. Data is
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people. You maybe not doing anything wrong
today, but maybe three governments from
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now when they pass a certain law, what you
have done today might be illegal, for
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example, and governments that keep that
data can look back over 10, 20 years and
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maybe start prosecuting.
---When everything we buy, everything we
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read, even the people we meet and date is
determined by this algorithms, I think the
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amount of power that they exert on the
society and individuals in this society is
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more than the state to the some degree.
And so there I think representatives
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democracy have the duty to push the
government to open up these private
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entities, to at least expose to some
degree how much control they exert.
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---If you adopt the technological
perspective and realize that technology
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will slip into our lives much more than is
already the case: Technically into our
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bodies, our clothes, into devices that we
sit in an we're wearing, in all sorts of
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areas of our coexistence and working life,
then that's definitely the wrong way to
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go. Because it leads to a total
surveillance. And if you think about it
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for a few minutes, you will realize that
the dichotomy is between control &
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freedom. And a fully controlled society
cannot be free.
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post film music
[Filler please remove in amara]
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Herald: Hello and welcome back from the
movie and know I welcome also our
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producer. And. It was very. Oh, yeah,
showing very good. What information can do
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and what could be done with information, I
give some people a bit more time to ask
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more questions. And in the meantime, I
could ask, Oh, well, this is moving. Those
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of these remote to your home was not shown
today for the first time. So what would
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you do different or what you think has
maybe changed in the meanwhile since you
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made it?
pandemonium: What I would change is I
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would definitely try much harder to secure
funding to just simply make a better movie
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and have more time and edited faster
because the editing process, because I had
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to work on the side was quite long. And
this film, and the way it stands now, was
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essentially only funded by a few very
great people who supported me on Patreon
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and helped me with some of their private
money, essentially so that it was
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essentially an almost no budget
production. So I would definitely change
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that. But documentary seen in Germany
being what it is, it's very hard to secure
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money if you're not attached to a TV
station or if you don't have a name yet.
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And since I didn't have a name, but I
still want to make the movie, I made the
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movie. I am still very happy with the
general direction of it. But of course,
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since that was mainly shot in 2015 and
2016, some of the newer developments in
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terms of especially biometric mass
surveillance and police. Especially in the
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U.S., the way police uses body cams, etc.
is not really reflected. But I still think
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that the I would still go with the whole
angle on colonialism and racism that is
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deeply entrenched in the discussions
around surveillance and privacy. And we
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can see that in discussions about shutting
down Telegram in Germany at the moment
351
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because right wing groups the there we see
it in discussions about how to deal with
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hate speech online on Facebook or the
Metaverse. And it's going to be called
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Zoom. And all of these things are already
kind of in the movie, but I would have
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probably focused a bit more on them if I'd
known. Six years ago what would happen and
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if I would make it now? But generally, the
direction I would choose the same.
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Herald: Yeah, it's quite fascinating. So
it was nearly no budget was so low, and it
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was also an interesting point to entertain
now, because in principle, I understood
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the ideas that body cams should create
actually a means of protecting people
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against police and not the other way
around as it happens sometimes.
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pandemonium: So there are definitely and
the problem with especially body cams or
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also other of other means of surveillance
is that a video is always thought to be an
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objective recording of the reality. But of
course, it always depends on the angle and
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cases of body cams, quite literally the
angle, but also data interpretation. And
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since humans are always full of biases and
always full of presumptions about who
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might be in the right and who might be in
the wrong, these imagery, images or videos
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tend to never, even if they would be
showing the objective truth, they're
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barely ever interpret it that way. And
it's exactly the same with any sort of
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film or photography that we're doing. I
mean, for this movie, I assembled a ton of
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interviews and there were very long there
were several hours long in many cases, and
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I could added probably 100 different
versions of this movie going essentially
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almost opposite directions, exactly the
same material. It shows very strongly how
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important it is, that at the end of the
day we overcome our biosies as judges, as
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police people, as people walking on the
street an trying to overcome any sort of
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surveillance on this impossible on the
technical level, is always connected with
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the way, we understand world.
Herald: Yeah, this is, I also remember a
376
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talk several years ago , it was about one
of "freiheit statt Angst" Demonstrations
377
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in Berlin. And there was also a case,
where the term was established, the guy
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with a t-shirt got beaten by police and it
was very hard to assemble different videos
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and to tell the whole story, what had
happened. You should be able to find that,
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there was a talk , where this was
constructed somehow.
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Producer: I will definitely looked that
up.
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Herald. But I'm not sure about the year
anymore but you will find it. Now we have
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a real question from the audience. The
first is, can I find the movie anywhere
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and show it to somebody else?
Producer: Yes. It is on YouTube. laugh
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Herald: Ok.
Producer: You can literally find it by
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00:38:46,099 --> 00:38:54,540
typing my name, which is Theresia
Reinhold. And you can find it.
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Herald. ok. So, its very good. So, I hope
they are happy. Is the 21. Century
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attention span for non-technical friend
with biggest claim. I don't get the
389
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questions. The Idea is: Is there a way of
explaining the non technical people, what
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is the problem with "I do not have nothing
to hide".
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Producer: If there is anything in your
life, where you are happy, no one is
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watching you doing, whether it is a
Century video, that a lot of people don't
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know, that you are watching. Or singing in
the shower or anything, then that is your
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absolute right that you are not. No one is
judging you on them, and that's the same
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with mass surveillance and surfing online
or walking down the street. We have a very
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basic comfort zone, should be protected.
Know we have a human right to privacy and
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whether it's in a technical room or in an
analog room, like being in a shopping mall
398
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and picking up, I don't know whatever you
don't want other people to know that
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you're buying. You should have the right
to do that in private and not have it be
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00:40:40,390 --> 00:40:45,500
known to other people. And when we are
surfing the internet, everything we do is
401
00:40:45,500 --> 00:40:54,280
constantly analyzed and watched in real
time and you notice our movements online
402
00:40:54,280 --> 00:41:00,119
are sold to the highest bidder and as a
whole, massive advertising industry behind
403
00:41:00,119 --> 00:41:08,609
it. And that's just immoral because humans
should have always the ability to share
404
00:41:08,609 --> 00:41:15,532
only what they want to share. That's how I
try to explain it to non tech people. And
405
00:41:15,532 --> 00:41:17,550
if they're not tech, people from the
former east, is just here to move to Stasi
406
00:41:17,550 --> 00:41:20,620
and they know exactly what you're talking
about.
407
00:41:20,620 --> 00:41:27,109
Herald: Yes, thanks for this explanation
again. And I think also what is important,
408
00:41:27,109 --> 00:41:34,220
what was also mentioned in the movie is
the thing with that is and speak, since it
409
00:41:34,220 --> 00:41:41,420
can be stored now that it's so that future
can haunt your history. Kind of.
410
00:41:41,420 --> 00:41:47,510
pandemonium. Yeah.
Herald: And actually, the question was
411
00:41:47,510 --> 00:41:58,400
now be more precise. And actually, it was
not what I asked you Laughs. Actually is
412
00:41:58,400 --> 00:42:06,880
the question of whether there is or there
could be a short teaser that people could
413
00:42:06,880 --> 00:42:12,260
send to your friends to two of their
friends to to watch the whole movie?
414
00:42:12,260 --> 00:42:15,630
laughs
Reinhold: Oh yes, there is. And that is
415
00:42:15,630 --> 00:42:20,119
also on YouTube and on Vimeo. OK, sorry.
Yes. Laugh
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00:42:20,119 --> 00:42:27,320
Herald: Well, I also didn't get it from
the question. So OK, so people will find
417
00:42:27,320 --> 00:42:34,410
it very good. So then I guess we are
through with the questions, and I thank
418
00:42:34,410 --> 00:42:46,760
you again for your nice movie and for
being here. Yeah, and. Then this talk is
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00:42:46,760 --> 00:42:57,010
over here. Chaos zone a TV comes back to
you at four p.m. with the talk "tales from
420
00:42:57,010 --> 00:43:05,170
the quantum industry" until then? Oh yeah.
Which some other streams go to the world
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00:43:05,170 --> 00:43:08,329
or. Have some lunch. See you.
[Filler please remove in amara]
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post roll music
[Filler please remove in amara]
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