1 00:00:00,640 --> 00:00:01,855 In terms of invention, 2 00:00:01,880 --> 00:00:04,738 I'd like to tell you the tale of one of my favorite projects. 3 00:00:04,762 --> 00:00:08,055 I think it's one of the most exciting that I'm working on, 4 00:00:08,080 --> 00:00:09,800 but I think it's also the simplest. 5 00:00:10,160 --> 00:00:14,616 It's a project that has the potential to make a huge impact around the world. 6 00:00:14,640 --> 00:00:18,056 It addresses one of the biggest health issues on the planet, 7 00:00:18,080 --> 00:00:21,092 the number one cause of death in children under five. 8 00:00:21,640 --> 00:00:22,840 Which is ...? 9 00:00:23,680 --> 00:00:26,760 Water-borne diseases? Diarrhea? Malnutrition? 10 00:00:27,200 --> 00:00:28,400 No. 11 00:00:28,880 --> 00:00:32,496 It's breathing the smoke from indoor cooking fires -- 12 00:00:32,520 --> 00:00:35,280 acute respiratory infections caused by this. 13 00:00:36,040 --> 00:00:37,240 Can you believe that? 14 00:00:37,880 --> 00:00:41,136 I find this shocking and somewhat appalling. 15 00:00:41,160 --> 00:00:43,776 Can't we make cleaner burning cooking fuels? 16 00:00:43,800 --> 00:00:45,736 Can't we make better stoves? 17 00:00:45,760 --> 00:00:49,776 How is it that this can lead to over two million deaths every year? 18 00:00:49,800 --> 00:00:54,136 I know Bill Joy was talking to you about the wonders of carbon nanotubes, 19 00:00:54,160 --> 00:00:57,976 so I'm going to talk to you about the wonders of carbon macro-tubes, 20 00:00:58,000 --> 00:00:59,216 which is charcoal. 21 00:00:59,240 --> 00:01:01,216 (Laughter) 22 00:01:01,240 --> 00:01:03,416 So this is a picture of rural Haiti. 23 00:01:03,440 --> 00:01:06,736 Haiti is now 98 percent deforested. 24 00:01:06,760 --> 00:01:09,856 You'll see scenes like this all over the island. 25 00:01:09,880 --> 00:01:12,656 It leads to all sorts of environmental problems 26 00:01:12,680 --> 00:01:16,936 and problems that affect people throughout the nation. 27 00:01:16,960 --> 00:01:19,016 A couple years ago there was severe flooding 28 00:01:19,040 --> 00:01:20,660 that led to thousands of deaths -- 29 00:01:20,684 --> 00:01:22,616 that's directly attributable to the fact 30 00:01:22,640 --> 00:01:25,616 that there are no trees on the hills to stabilize the soil. 31 00:01:25,640 --> 00:01:26,896 So the rains come -- 32 00:01:26,920 --> 00:01:29,360 they go down the rivers and the flooding happens. 33 00:01:30,440 --> 00:01:33,896 Now one of the reasons why there are so few trees is this: 34 00:01:33,920 --> 00:01:35,296 people need to cook, 35 00:01:35,320 --> 00:01:39,416 and they harvest wood and they make charcoal in order to do it. 36 00:01:39,440 --> 00:01:42,345 It's not that people are ignorant to the environmental damage. 37 00:01:42,369 --> 00:01:44,989 They know perfectly well, but they have no other choice. 38 00:01:45,013 --> 00:01:47,016 Fossil fuels are not available, 39 00:01:47,040 --> 00:01:51,936 and solar energy doesn't cook the way that they like their food prepared. 40 00:01:51,960 --> 00:01:54,096 And so this is what they do. 41 00:01:54,120 --> 00:01:58,296 You'll find families like this who go out into the forest to find a tree, 42 00:01:58,320 --> 00:02:01,200 cut it down and make charcoal out of it. 43 00:02:02,440 --> 00:02:03,656 So not surprisingly, 44 00:02:03,680 --> 00:02:08,479 there's a lot of effort that's been done to look at alternative cooking fuels. 45 00:02:09,360 --> 00:02:12,416 About four years ago, I took a team of students down to Haiti 46 00:02:12,440 --> 00:02:14,856 and we worked with Peace Corps volunteers there. 47 00:02:14,880 --> 00:02:16,296 This is one such volunteer 48 00:02:16,320 --> 00:02:19,936 and this is a device that he had built in the village where he worked. 49 00:02:19,960 --> 00:02:22,616 And the idea was that you could take waste paper; 50 00:02:22,640 --> 00:02:23,856 you could compress it 51 00:02:23,880 --> 00:02:26,536 and make briquettes that could be used for fuel. 52 00:02:26,560 --> 00:02:28,576 But this device was very slow. 53 00:02:28,600 --> 00:02:31,696 So our engineering students went to work on it 54 00:02:31,720 --> 00:02:33,816 and with some very simple changes, 55 00:02:33,840 --> 00:02:36,896 they were able to triple the throughput of this device. 56 00:02:36,920 --> 00:02:39,456 So you could imagine they were very excited about it. 57 00:02:39,480 --> 00:02:43,280 And they took the briquettes back to MIT so that they could test them. 58 00:02:44,000 --> 00:02:48,256 And one of the things that they found was they didn't burn. 59 00:02:48,280 --> 00:02:51,056 So it was a little discouraging to the students. 60 00:02:51,080 --> 00:02:52,616 (Laughter) 61 00:02:52,640 --> 00:02:55,016 And in fact, if you look closely, 62 00:02:55,040 --> 00:02:57,640 right here you can see it says, "US Peace Corps." 63 00:02:58,640 --> 00:03:02,456 As it turns out, there actually wasn't any waste paper in this village. 64 00:03:02,480 --> 00:03:05,696 And while it was a good use of government paperwork 65 00:03:05,720 --> 00:03:08,625 for this volunteer to bring it back with him to his village, 66 00:03:08,649 --> 00:03:10,736 it was 800 kilometers away. 67 00:03:10,760 --> 00:03:13,656 And so we thought perhaps there might be a better way 68 00:03:13,680 --> 00:03:15,880 to come up with an alternative cooking fuel. 69 00:03:16,640 --> 00:03:18,896 What we wanted to do is we wanted to make a fuel 70 00:03:18,920 --> 00:03:22,256 that used something that was readily available on the local level. 71 00:03:22,280 --> 00:03:24,056 You see these all over Haiti as well. 72 00:03:24,080 --> 00:03:25,816 They're small-scale sugar mills. 73 00:03:25,840 --> 00:03:27,336 And the waste product from them 74 00:03:27,360 --> 00:03:29,776 after you extract the juice from the sugarcane 75 00:03:29,800 --> 00:03:31,336 is called "bagasse." 76 00:03:31,360 --> 00:03:32,576 It has no other use. 77 00:03:32,600 --> 00:03:35,896 It has no nutritional value, so they don't feed it to the animals. 78 00:03:35,920 --> 00:03:39,960 It just sits in a pile near the sugar mill until eventually they burn it. 79 00:03:41,040 --> 00:03:43,336 What we wanted to do was we wanted to find a way 80 00:03:43,360 --> 00:03:46,336 to harness this waste resource and turn it into a fuel 81 00:03:46,360 --> 00:03:49,336 that would be something that people could easily cook with, 82 00:03:49,360 --> 00:03:50,600 something like charcoal. 83 00:03:51,600 --> 00:03:53,216 So over the next couple of years, 84 00:03:53,240 --> 00:03:56,896 students and I worked to develop a process. 85 00:03:56,920 --> 00:04:00,736 So you start with the bagasse, and then you take a very simple kiln 86 00:04:00,760 --> 00:04:03,936 that you can make out of a waste fifty five-gallon oil drum. 87 00:04:03,960 --> 00:04:06,256 After some time, after setting it on fire, 88 00:04:06,280 --> 00:04:10,256 you seal it to restrict the oxygen that goes into the kiln, 89 00:04:10,280 --> 00:04:13,280 and then you end up with this carbonized material here. 90 00:04:14,080 --> 00:04:15,656 However, you can't burn this. 91 00:04:15,680 --> 00:04:20,375 It's too fine and it burns too quickly to be useful for cooking. 92 00:04:20,399 --> 00:04:24,656 So we had to try to find a way to form it into useful briquettes. 93 00:04:24,680 --> 00:04:28,096 And conveniently, one of my students was from Ghana, 94 00:04:28,120 --> 00:04:31,454 and he remembered a dish his mom used to make for him called "kokonte," 95 00:04:31,478 --> 00:04:34,936 which is a very sticky porridge made out of the cassava root. 96 00:04:34,960 --> 00:04:36,536 And so what we did was we looked, 97 00:04:36,560 --> 00:04:39,656 and we found that cassava is indeed grown in Haiti, 98 00:04:39,680 --> 00:04:41,816 under the name of "manioc." 99 00:04:41,840 --> 00:04:43,793 In fact, it's grown all over the world -- 100 00:04:43,817 --> 00:04:46,896 yucca, tapioca, manioc, cassava, it's all the same thing -- 101 00:04:46,920 --> 00:04:49,016 a very starchy root vegetable. 102 00:04:49,040 --> 00:04:52,256 And you can make a very thick, sticky porridge out of it, 103 00:04:52,280 --> 00:04:56,416 which you can use to bind together the charcoal briquettes. 104 00:04:56,440 --> 00:04:59,616 So we did this. We went down to Haiti. 105 00:04:59,640 --> 00:05:02,296 These are the graduates of the first Ecole de Charbon, 106 00:05:02,320 --> 00:05:04,016 or Charcoal Institute. 107 00:05:04,040 --> 00:05:05,256 And these -- 108 00:05:05,280 --> 00:05:06,496 (Laughter) 109 00:05:06,520 --> 00:05:12,496 That's right. So I'm actually an instructor at MIT as well as CIT. 110 00:05:12,520 --> 00:05:14,600 And these are the briquettes that we made. 111 00:05:16,040 --> 00:05:18,440 Now I'm going to take you to a different continent. 112 00:05:19,320 --> 00:05:20,536 This is India 113 00:05:20,560 --> 00:05:23,776 and this is the most commonly used cooking fuel in India. 114 00:05:23,800 --> 00:05:25,176 It's cow dung. 115 00:05:25,200 --> 00:05:29,376 And more than in Haiti, this produces really smoky fires, 116 00:05:29,400 --> 00:05:31,856 and this is where you see the health impacts 117 00:05:31,880 --> 00:05:35,960 of cooking with cow dung and biomass as a fuel. 118 00:05:36,600 --> 00:05:38,816 Kids and women are especially affected by it, 119 00:05:38,840 --> 00:05:41,976 because they're the ones who are around the cooking fires. 120 00:05:42,000 --> 00:05:43,216 So we wanted to see 121 00:05:43,240 --> 00:05:46,736 if we could introduce this charcoal-making technology there. 122 00:05:46,760 --> 00:05:49,176 Well, unfortunately, they didn't have sugarcane 123 00:05:49,200 --> 00:05:50,581 and they didn't have cassava, 124 00:05:50,605 --> 00:05:51,805 but that didn't stop us. 125 00:05:52,400 --> 00:05:56,216 What we did was we found what were the locally available sources of biomass. 126 00:05:56,240 --> 00:05:59,616 And there was wheat straw and there was rice straw in this area. 127 00:05:59,640 --> 00:06:03,256 And what we could use as a binder was actually small amounts of cow manure, 128 00:06:03,280 --> 00:06:05,520 which they used ordinarily for their fuel. 129 00:06:06,960 --> 00:06:09,136 And we did side-by-side tests, 130 00:06:09,160 --> 00:06:11,736 and here you can see the charcoal briquettes 131 00:06:11,760 --> 00:06:12,976 and here the cow dung. 132 00:06:13,000 --> 00:06:16,256 And you can see that it's a lot cleaner burning of a cooking fuel. 133 00:06:16,280 --> 00:06:18,856 And in fact, it heats the water a lot more quickly. 134 00:06:18,880 --> 00:06:21,176 And so we were very happy, thus far. 135 00:06:21,200 --> 00:06:22,896 But one of the things that we found 136 00:06:22,920 --> 00:06:25,736 was when we did side-by-side comparisons with wood charcoal, 137 00:06:25,760 --> 00:06:27,376 it didn't burn as long. 138 00:06:27,400 --> 00:06:29,305 And the briquettes crumbled a little bit 139 00:06:29,329 --> 00:06:32,496 and we lost energy as they fell apart as they were cooking. 140 00:06:32,520 --> 00:06:35,736 So we wanted to try to find a way to make a stronger briquette 141 00:06:35,760 --> 00:06:39,360 so that we could compete with wood charcoal in the markets in Haiti. 142 00:06:40,320 --> 00:06:42,336 So we went back to MIT, 143 00:06:42,360 --> 00:06:44,576 we took out the Instron machine 144 00:06:44,600 --> 00:06:47,296 and we figured out what sort of forces you needed 145 00:06:47,320 --> 00:06:49,416 in order to compress a briquette to the level 146 00:06:49,440 --> 00:06:52,298 that you actually are getting improved performance out of it? 147 00:06:52,960 --> 00:06:56,256 And at the same time that we had students in the lab looking at this, 148 00:06:56,280 --> 00:07:03,216 we also had community partners in Haiti working to develop the process, 149 00:07:03,240 --> 00:07:08,240 to improve it and make it more accessible to people in the villages there. 150 00:07:09,160 --> 00:07:10,376 And after some time, 151 00:07:10,400 --> 00:07:15,216 we developed a low-cost press that allows you to produce charcoal, 152 00:07:15,240 --> 00:07:17,920 which actually now burns not only -- 153 00:07:18,642 --> 00:07:21,960 actually, it burns longer, cleaner than wood charcoal. 154 00:07:22,400 --> 00:07:24,936 So now we're in a situation where we have a product, 155 00:07:24,960 --> 00:07:29,256 which is actually better than what you can buy in Haiti in the marketplace, 156 00:07:29,280 --> 00:07:32,000 which is a very wonderful place to be. 157 00:07:33,960 --> 00:07:38,696 In Haiti alone, about 30 million trees are cut down every year. 158 00:07:38,720 --> 00:07:41,216 There's a possibility of this being implemented 159 00:07:41,240 --> 00:07:43,536 and saving a good portion of those. 160 00:07:43,560 --> 00:07:49,976 In addition, the revenue generated from that charcoal is 260 million dollars. 161 00:07:50,000 --> 00:07:52,536 That's an awful lot for a country like Haiti -- 162 00:07:52,560 --> 00:07:54,416 with a population of eight million 163 00:07:54,440 --> 00:07:57,640 and an average income of less than 400 dollars. 164 00:07:58,680 --> 00:08:02,536 So this is where we're also moving ahead with our charcoal project. 165 00:08:02,560 --> 00:08:05,216 And one of the things that I think is also interesting, 166 00:08:05,240 --> 00:08:09,536 is I have a friend up at UC Berkeley who's been doing risk analysis. 167 00:08:09,560 --> 00:08:12,616 And he's looked at the problem of the health impacts 168 00:08:12,640 --> 00:08:14,736 of burning wood versus charcoal. 169 00:08:14,760 --> 00:08:18,856 And he's found that worldwide, you could prevent a million deaths 170 00:08:18,880 --> 00:08:21,856 switching from wood to charcoal as a cooking fuel. 171 00:08:21,880 --> 00:08:23,096 That's remarkable, 172 00:08:23,120 --> 00:08:26,576 but up until now, there weren't ways to do it without cutting down trees. 173 00:08:26,600 --> 00:08:27,816 But now we have a way 174 00:08:27,840 --> 00:08:31,520 that's using an agricultural waste material to create a cooking fuel. 175 00:08:31,960 --> 00:08:33,976 One of the really exciting things, though, 176 00:08:34,000 --> 00:08:37,572 is something that came out of the trip that I took to Ghana just last month. 177 00:08:37,596 --> 00:08:41,015 And I think it's the coolest thing, 178 00:08:41,039 --> 00:08:43,279 and it's even lower tech than what you just saw, 179 00:08:43,303 --> 00:08:45,336 if you can imagine such a thing. 180 00:08:45,360 --> 00:08:46,576 Here it is. 181 00:08:46,600 --> 00:08:47,800 So what is this? 182 00:08:48,480 --> 00:08:51,056 This is corncobs turned into charcoal. 183 00:08:51,080 --> 00:08:54,223 And the beauty of this is that you don't need to form briquettes -- 184 00:08:54,247 --> 00:08:55,576 it comes ready made. 185 00:08:55,600 --> 00:08:58,456 This is my $100 laptop, right here. 186 00:08:58,480 --> 00:09:01,496 And actually, like Nick, I brought samples. 187 00:09:01,520 --> 00:09:03,736 (Laughter) 188 00:09:03,760 --> 00:09:05,520 So we can pass these around. 189 00:09:07,520 --> 00:09:11,604 They're fully functional, field-tested, ready to roll out. 190 00:09:11,628 --> 00:09:13,334 (Laughter) 191 00:09:15,520 --> 00:09:17,016 And I think one of the things 192 00:09:17,040 --> 00:09:21,256 which is also remarkable about this technology, 193 00:09:21,280 --> 00:09:24,056 is that the technology transfer is so easy. 194 00:09:24,080 --> 00:09:26,216 Compared to the sugarcane charcoal, 195 00:09:26,240 --> 00:09:29,056 where we have to teach people how to form it into briquettes 196 00:09:29,080 --> 00:09:31,496 and you have the extra step of cooking the binder, 197 00:09:31,520 --> 00:09:33,096 this comes pre-briquetted. 198 00:09:33,120 --> 00:09:36,073 And this is about the most exciting thing in my life right now, 199 00:09:36,097 --> 00:09:39,296 which is perhaps a sad commentary on my life. 200 00:09:39,320 --> 00:09:41,576 (Laughter) 201 00:09:41,600 --> 00:09:44,136 But once you see it, like you guys in the front row -- 202 00:09:44,160 --> 00:09:45,376 All right, yeah, OK. 203 00:09:45,400 --> 00:09:46,616 So anyway -- 204 00:09:46,640 --> 00:09:48,656 (Laughter) 205 00:09:48,680 --> 00:09:49,896 Here it is. 206 00:09:49,920 --> 00:09:52,376 And this is, I think, a perfect example 207 00:09:52,400 --> 00:09:57,616 of what Robert Wright was talking about in those non-zero-sum things. 208 00:09:57,640 --> 00:10:00,136 So not only do you have health benefits, 209 00:10:00,160 --> 00:10:02,296 you have environmental benefits. 210 00:10:02,320 --> 00:10:06,136 But this is one of the incredibly rare situations 211 00:10:06,160 --> 00:10:08,496 where you also have economic benefits. 212 00:10:08,520 --> 00:10:11,576 People can make their own cooking fuel from waste products. 213 00:10:11,600 --> 00:10:13,616 They can generate income from this. 214 00:10:13,640 --> 00:10:16,776 They can save the money that they were going to spend on charcoal 215 00:10:16,800 --> 00:10:19,277 and they can produce excess and sell it in the market 216 00:10:19,301 --> 00:10:21,256 to people who aren't making their own. 217 00:10:21,280 --> 00:10:23,576 It's really rare that you don't have trade-offs 218 00:10:23,600 --> 00:10:26,816 between health and economics, or environment and economics. 219 00:10:26,840 --> 00:10:30,576 So this is a project that I just find extremely exciting 220 00:10:30,600 --> 00:10:36,000 and I'm really looking forward to see where it takes us. 221 00:10:38,120 --> 00:10:41,616 So when we talk about, now, the future we will create, 222 00:10:41,640 --> 00:10:43,656 one of the things that I think is necessary 223 00:10:43,680 --> 00:10:47,640 is to have a very clear vision of the world that we live in. 224 00:10:48,160 --> 00:10:50,946 And now, I don't actually mean the world that we live in. 225 00:10:51,920 --> 00:10:56,016 I mean the world where women spend two to three hours everyday 226 00:10:56,040 --> 00:10:58,480 grinding grain for their families to eat. 227 00:10:59,960 --> 00:11:02,336 I mean the world where advanced building materials 228 00:11:02,360 --> 00:11:05,776 means cement roofing tiles that are made by hand, 229 00:11:05,800 --> 00:11:07,936 and where, when you work 10 hours a day, 230 00:11:07,960 --> 00:11:10,800 you're still only earning 60 dollars in a month. 231 00:11:12,320 --> 00:11:13,536 I mean the world 232 00:11:13,560 --> 00:11:19,760 where women and children spend 40 billion hours a year fetching water. 233 00:11:20,520 --> 00:11:24,256 That's as if the entire workforce of the state of California 234 00:11:24,280 --> 00:11:28,776 worked full time for a year doing nothing but fetching water. 235 00:11:28,800 --> 00:11:33,136 It's a place where, for example, if this were India, 236 00:11:33,160 --> 00:11:35,600 in this room, only three of us would have a car. 237 00:11:36,360 --> 00:11:37,576 If this were Afghanistan, 238 00:11:37,600 --> 00:11:41,216 only one person in this room would know how the use the Internet. 239 00:11:41,240 --> 00:11:42,440 If this were Zambia -- 240 00:11:43,520 --> 00:11:46,216 300 of you would be farmers, 241 00:11:46,240 --> 00:11:49,376 100 of you would have AIDS or HIV. 242 00:11:49,400 --> 00:11:53,240 And more than half of you would be living on less than a dollar a day. 243 00:11:54,280 --> 00:11:59,016 These are the issues that we need to come up with solutions for. 244 00:11:59,040 --> 00:12:02,896 These are the issues that we need to be training our engineers, 245 00:12:02,920 --> 00:12:06,360 our designers, our business people, our entrepreneurs to be facing. 246 00:12:07,280 --> 00:12:09,976 These are the solutions that we need to find. 247 00:12:10,000 --> 00:12:16,176 I have a few areas that I believe are especially important that we address. 248 00:12:16,200 --> 00:12:18,256 One of them is creating technologies 249 00:12:18,280 --> 00:12:21,296 to promote micro-finance and micro-enterprise, 250 00:12:21,320 --> 00:12:24,176 so that people who are living below the poverty line 251 00:12:24,200 --> 00:12:25,736 can find a way to move out -- 252 00:12:25,760 --> 00:12:27,141 and that they're not doing it 253 00:12:27,165 --> 00:12:30,776 using the same traditional basket making, poultry rearing, etc. 254 00:12:30,800 --> 00:12:32,991 But there are new technologies and new products 255 00:12:33,015 --> 00:12:35,255 that they can make on a small scale. 256 00:12:35,800 --> 00:12:37,016 The next thing I believe 257 00:12:37,040 --> 00:12:41,416 is that we need to create technologies for poor farmers 258 00:12:41,440 --> 00:12:43,680 to add value to their own crops. 259 00:12:44,600 --> 00:12:47,256 And we need to rethink our development strategies, 260 00:12:47,280 --> 00:12:50,536 so that we're not promoting educational campaigns 261 00:12:50,560 --> 00:12:52,936 to get them to stop being farmers, 262 00:12:52,960 --> 00:12:55,736 but rather to stop being poor farmers. 263 00:12:55,760 --> 00:12:58,593 And we need to think about how we can do that effectively. 264 00:12:59,560 --> 00:13:02,216 We need to work with the people in these communities 265 00:13:02,240 --> 00:13:05,096 and give them the resources and the tools that they need 266 00:13:05,120 --> 00:13:06,816 to solve their own problems. 267 00:13:06,840 --> 00:13:08,221 That's the best way to do it. 268 00:13:08,245 --> 00:13:10,536 We shouldn't be doing it from outside. 269 00:13:10,560 --> 00:13:14,720 So we need to create this future, and we need to start doing it now. 270 00:13:15,240 --> 00:13:16,456 Thank you. 271 00:13:16,480 --> 00:13:21,736 (Applause) 272 00:13:21,760 --> 00:13:24,252 Chris Anderson: Thank you, incredible. 273 00:13:24,320 --> 00:13:25,520 Stay here. 274 00:13:26,360 --> 00:13:29,256 Tell us -- just while we see if someone has a question -- 275 00:13:29,280 --> 00:13:32,696 just tell us about one of the other things that you've worked on. 276 00:13:32,720 --> 00:13:35,216 Amy Smith: Some of the other things we're working on 277 00:13:35,240 --> 00:13:37,417 are ways to do low-cost water quality testing, 278 00:13:37,441 --> 00:13:40,176 so that communities can maintain their own water systems, 279 00:13:40,200 --> 00:13:42,915 know when they're working, know when they treat them, etc. 280 00:13:42,939 --> 00:13:45,576 We're also looking at low-cost water-treatment systems. 281 00:13:45,600 --> 00:13:48,981 One of the really exciting things is looking at solar water disinfection 282 00:13:49,005 --> 00:13:51,565 and improving the ability to be able to do that. 283 00:13:52,320 --> 00:13:56,256 CA: What's the bottleneck preventing this stuff getting from scale? 284 00:13:56,280 --> 00:13:59,536 Do you need to find entrepreneurs, or venture capitalists, 285 00:13:59,560 --> 00:14:04,416 or what do you need to take what you've got and get it to scale? 286 00:14:04,440 --> 00:14:07,210 AS: I think it's large numbers of people moving it forward. 287 00:14:07,234 --> 00:14:08,433 It's a difficult thing -- 288 00:14:08,457 --> 00:14:10,464 it's a marketplace which is very fragmented 289 00:14:10,488 --> 00:14:12,696 and a consumer population with no income. 290 00:14:12,720 --> 00:14:15,976 So you can't use the same models that you use in the United States 291 00:14:16,000 --> 00:14:17,536 for making things move forward. 292 00:14:17,560 --> 00:14:19,576 And we're a pretty small staff, 293 00:14:19,600 --> 00:14:20,816 which is me. 294 00:14:20,840 --> 00:14:22,816 (Laughter) 295 00:14:22,840 --> 00:14:25,079 So, you know, I do what I can with the students. 296 00:14:25,103 --> 00:14:27,342 We have 30 students a year go out into the field 297 00:14:27,366 --> 00:14:29,816 and try to implement this and move it forward. 298 00:14:29,840 --> 00:14:33,336 The other thing is you have to do things with a long time frame, 299 00:14:33,360 --> 00:14:37,296 as, you know, you can't expect to get something done in a year or two years; 300 00:14:37,320 --> 00:14:39,463 you have to be looking five or 10 years ahead. 301 00:14:39,487 --> 00:14:42,687 But I think with the vision to do that, we can move forward.