0:00:02.110,0:00:05.001 The Toul Sleng secondary School is hidden behind a fence 0:00:05.016,0:00:08.339 in a quiet district of the Cambodian Capital Phnom Penh 0:00:11.531,0:00:13.241 It's been empty for almost 30 years 0:00:14.811,0:00:16.972 a silent witness to the agony of a nation 0:00:18.997,0:00:23.290 thousands of men women and children were tortured in its classrooms 0:00:30.210,0:00:33.914 they were then driven to the outskirts of the city and executed 0:00:35.340,0:00:38.613 nearly 2 million people died in the killing fields of Cambodia 0:00:39.096,0:00:43.181 a quarter if the country's population lost in less than four years 0:00:44.459,0:00:47.885 one man above all was responsible for this secret genocide 0:00:49.588,0:00:54.274 he used hunger and terror to control not just what his people did and said 0:00:54.454,0:00:55.552 but what they wore 0:00:55.552,0:00:57.777 where they lived even who they loved 0:00:59.690,0:01:00.793 Pol Pot 0:01:02.182,0:01:04.462 Cambodia was closed to the world 0:01:04.499,0:01:06.874 and no true record was filmed of his new society 0:01:07.639,0:01:09.630 but drawing on his words and the testimony of those 0:01:09.859,0:01:12.895 who knew him well, this is the story of Pol Pot's 0:01:12.895,0:01:16.075 Journey to the Killing Fields 0:01:35.103,0:01:38.035 in 1997 a few monhs before he died 0:01:38.881,0:01:41.084 Pol Pot gave a rare and surprising frank 0:01:41.380,0:01:42.802 interview with and American journalist 0:01:43.954,0:01:47.124 he spoke of the revolution he led and his childhood 0:01:52.568,0:01:54.672 I was born in January 1925 0:01:55.212,0:01:57.693 I remember this because my mother 0:01:58.059,0:02:00.294 wrote it in chalk on the wall of the house 0:02:04.203,0:02:06.061 I am the son of a peasant 0:02:06.135,0:02:07.530 and when I was young 0:02:07.590,0:02:09.963 I used to help my parents in the field 0:02:14.612,0:02:17.796 Pol Pot or Saloth Sar to give him his true name 0:02:18.479,0:02:20.545 was from the sort of land owning family 0:02:21.001,0:02:22.972 he would later denounce as parasites 0:02:28.515,0:02:29.900 we were neither rich nor poor 0:02:30.790,0:02:32.037 we just made a fair living 0:02:36.163,0:02:38.003 we needed some help at harvest time 0:02:38.262,0:02:40.762 and we were able to employ our neighbours 0:02:40.762,0:02:43.868 to help us harvest the rice and plow the fields 0:02:49.955,0:02:54.667 as a child Saloth Sar was a good kind gentle and hard working 0:02:56.153,0:02:58.335 When I say this some people dont believe me 0:02:59.460,0:03:01.282 we used to swim in the river together 0:03:01.561,0:03:03.150 we played everywhere 0:03:03.607,0:03:04.933 all sort of games 0:03:08.865,0:03:09.972 ever since my childhood 0:03:11.176,0:03:12.730 i've tried never to talk about myself 0:03:14.860,0:03:16.754 that's really just part of my nature 0:03:17.572,0:03:20.079 I'm taciturn. I'm really quite modest 0:03:24.578,0:03:26.133 in the evenings Sar and his brothers 0:03:26.376,0:03:28.951 would listen to traditional tales of the Khymer Kings 0:03:29.431,0:03:30.960 and the teachings of the Buddha 0:03:34.695,0:03:37.125 Cambodia was a poor peasant society 0:03:38.209,0:03:41.382 most people travelled no more than a few miles from their rice fields 0:03:42.409,0:03:45.669 but Saloth Sar's father wanted a different life for his son 0:03:46.550,0:03:50.432 when Sar was nine he was sent to the capital Phnom Penh 0:03:53.309,0:03:55.839 It was in the streets of Phnom Penh 0:03:55.839,0:03:59.709 that saw Phnom Penh the Sar came into contact with Cambodia's other world 0:04:00.817,0:04:03.608 the country was ruled by a Khymer King 0:04:03.608,0:04:07.307 but in name only the French were the colonial masters 0:04:10.489,0:04:13.995 the priviledged were educated by the colonialists in their language 0:04:14.778,0:04:16.797 Saloth Sar was one of the privileged 0:04:19.047,0:04:20.435 he studied French literature 0:04:20.435,0:04:21.540 and history 0:04:23.727,0:04:25.424 the revolution of 1789 0:04:26.816,0:04:28.944 and the reign of terror that followed it 0:04:33.342,0:04:36.922 school friends remembered Sar as an amusing companion but closed 0:04:36.922,0:04:39.523 for a talent even then for hiding his thoughts 0:04:40.858,0:04:43.200 he was not an especially abled student 0:04:46.847,0:04:51.282 no one could recall Soleth Sar showing any interest in the future of his country 0:04:52.532,0:04:55.004 and yet the ordered world of the Khmer Kingdon 0:04:55.004,0:04:57.282 was about to be turned upside down 0:05:02.597,0:05:05.409 the French were engaged in a bitter struggle to hold onto power 0:05:05.409,0:05:07.131 in neighbouring Vietnam 0:05:07.131,0:05:10.084 where a determined communist army was fighting for independence 0:05:13.182,0:05:15.067 Communist Viet Minh Guerillas 0:05:15.074,0:05:17.590 have begun to train small bands of Cambodians 0:05:22.751,0:05:25.872 their attacks were confined to a few remote border posts 0:05:26.447,0:05:28.676 but their cry National Independence 0:05:29.001,0:05:31.807 was beginning to resound throughout Indochina 0:05:37.010,0:05:42.709 When Saloth Sar was 20 he made a pilgramige with friends to the great forest temples of Angkor 0:05:43.438,0:05:47.529 built at the high point of Khmer civilisation more than 700 years ago 0:05:48.554,0:05:51.675 they remain the symbol of national pride and independence 0:05:52.487,0:05:55.206 the visit would leave a lasting impression on the students 0:05:55.541,0:05:56.895 who became Pol Pot 0:05:57.918,0:06:02.090 if our people could built Angkor Wat they could do anything 0:06:02.690,0:06:07.124 we must revive our national soul and pride in order 0:06:07.184,0:06:08.821 to defend the nation 0:06:08.944,0:06:10.504 build the country well 0:06:11.240,0:06:12.780 and preserve it forever 0:06:15.338,0:06:17.187 it was the beginning of a political journey 0:06:17.317,0:06:20.943 that would change the course of Saloth Sar life forever 0:06:22.043,0:06:26.943 in 1949 Sar was one of a small and very privileged [br]band of students to be given 0:06:27.003,0:06:30.593 a scholarship to study in the capital of the colonial empire 0:06:33.488,0:06:35.049 Paris glittered with new life 0:06:35.172,0:06:36.558 after the austerity of the war years 0:06:38.243,0:06:41.649 at first Saloth Sar's chief interest was in living life to the full 0:06:43.147,0:06:45.316 but that changed in the winter of 1950 0:06:50.400,0:06:53.575 I met some students with progressive views 0:06:53.767,0:06:56.706 and I often stayed with them and little by little 0:06:57.035,0:06:59.226 they began to influence my views 0:07:03.316,0:07:06.102 these meetings would take place at my place 0:07:07.804,0:07:09.357 we discussed things 0:07:10.401,0:07:13.786 we exchanged ideas and two tendencies emerged 0:07:15.608,0:07:18.315 one in favour of a struggle for independence 0:07:19.089,0:07:20.207 by peaceful means 0:07:21.403,0:07:22.243 and the other 0:07:22.552,0:07:25.857 was a radical group that was in favour of armed struggle 0:07:27.682,0:07:29.957 Saloth Sar was of the radical view 0:07:31.210,0:07:34.162 it seemed to him that the war against French colonialism 0:07:34.327,0:07:36.810 was being fought and won everywhere by Communists 0:07:38.775,0:07:40.970 the Soviet leader Joseph Stalin was honoured 0:07:41.374,0:07:42.703 in the streets of Paris 0:07:47.983,0:07:51.934 a quarter of the French population voted Communist 0:07:52.390,0:07:55.887 the small group of radical students that had met Vannsak's appartment 0:07:56.071,0:07:58.221 in was drawn into the party 0:07:58.381,0:08:00.311 Saloth Sar was among them 0:08:06.042,0:08:08.297 Sar had become a revoltionary 0:08:09.009,0:08:12.644 intent above all on the overthrow of Cambodia's colonial masters 0:08:14.138,0:08:18.451 in 1953 he decided to return home to fight for independence 0:08:24.391,0:08:27.611 he sought out the most disciplined and effective of the groups 0:08:27.741,0:08:29.943 fighting the French in Indochina 0:08:30.278,0:08:32.088 the Communist Viet Minh 0:08:33.452,0:08:38.308 but in his first months in the jungle the comrade who had return from Paris to fight 0:08:38.548,0:08:41.800 was trusted with no more than the camp's vegetable patch 0:08:43.924,0:08:49.703 almost everyone there was Vietnamese there were only a handful of Cambodians 0:08:49.793,0:08:53.343 and for a long time there was nothing for me to do 0:08:56.057,0:08:58.516 and after a while they let me work in the kitchen 0:08:59.695,0:09:02.801 but really the Cambodians were there in name only 0:09:05.412,0:09:07.630 just how dependant the Cambodians were 0:09:07.740,0:09:10.789 on their Vietnamese comrades became all too obvious 0:09:10.839,0:09:14.856 only months after Solath Sar joined the struggle for independence 0:09:21.478,0:09:25.482 in 1953 the French agreed to pull out of Cambodia and Vietnam 0:09:27.073,0:09:29.415 but in Cambodia it was not a Communist leader 0:09:29.497,0:09:31.964 who became the symbol of national independence 0:09:32.404,0:09:34.853 but the young King Sihanouk 0:09:40.846,0:09:44.311 the Viet Minh controlled more than a third of the country 0:09:44.551,0:09:47.112 but they chose not to fight on for a Socialist Republic 0:09:47.189,0:09:47.839 in Cambodia 0:09:48.542,0:09:49.787 they made peace with the King 0:09:54.232,0:09:57.964 the Cambodians were forced to bury their weapons in the forest 0:09:59.098,0:10:01.163 after the peace agreement was signed 0:10:01.647,0:10:04.407 I returned to the capital and resumed my work 0:10:04.469,0:10:05.868 in the political underground 0:10:07.594,0:10:09.935 in public I worked as a school teacher 0:10:10.040,0:10:12.038 in geography history and morals 0:10:14.378,0:10:16.267 in private in the political underground 0:10:16.357,0:10:18.530 I made contact with not just students 0:10:18.772,0:10:19.847 and intellectuals 0:10:20.316,0:10:22.109 but also workers and peasants 0:10:29.322,0:10:31.182 we lived openly as ordinary people but 0:10:31.473,0:10:33.955 in secret we were working for the party 0:10:35.391,0:10:38.397 it was at this time that Soleth Sar met the man who became 0:10:38.716,0:10:42.733 his closest political ally Brother Nr 2 Nuon Chea 0:10:43.206,0:10:46.811 he is accused of sharing responsibilty for the Killing Fields 0:10:50.232,0:10:53.521 Solath Sar had a certain skill at bringing new people in to the party 0:10:54.481,0:10:59.071 he was a modest charming person but he was clever and good at explaining things in a way 0:10:59.259,0:11:00.595 people could understand 0:11:02.911,0:11:04.503 Solath Sar would speak of this time 0:11:04.799,0:11:07.101 as one of untiring work for the party 0:11:08.199,0:11:09.311 but there is another 0:11:09.353,0:11:10.689 a half hidden story 0:11:12.667,0:11:15.686 the man who in Paris helped kindle Sar's interests in politics 0:11:16.105,0:11:19.712 had returned home to campaign in his country's first free elections 0:11:23.962,0:11:25.390 he came and had breakfast 0:11:25.448,0:11:29.613 with me every morning and we talked together and prepared the electoral 0:11:29.703,0:11:31.201 campaign of the Democratic Party 0:11:35.305,0:11:37.289 but it was not just a shared interest in the election 0:11:37.386,0:11:39.176 that drew Sar to Vannsak's 0:11:39.217,0:11:40.606 house every day 0:11:43.383,0:11:45.530 her name was Sun Son Meli 0:11:46.654,0:11:49.626 her mother was a princess living at the royal palace 0:11:52.102,0:11:54.866 she used to meet Solath's Sar at my house 0:11:57.686,0:11:59.154 at that time she loved him 0:12:00.277,0:12:03.699 she hoped that Solath Sar would become an important figure 0:12:04.921,0:12:06.993 but any hope Sar may have had for a life with 0:12:07.299,0:12:09.828 Sun Son Meli free of revoltionary struggle 0:12:10.641,0:12:13.341 crumbled within a year of his return to the city 0:12:17.247,0:12:20.186 the winner of the country's first election was Sihanouk 0:12:20.992,0:12:23.449 the King had renounced his throne to take part 0:12:23.707,0:12:25.003 but not his powers 0:12:25.187,0:12:28.633 and he had ensured his own victory by arresting his political opponents 0:12:30.424,0:12:32.035 taking part in elections 0:12:32.315,0:12:34.325 that is just for propaganda 0:12:35.642,0:12:39.739 in the end and election is a power struggle and those who have power 0:12:40.049,0:12:43.244 in their hands are the ones who determine 0:12:43.342,0:12:44.336 the final result 0:12:46.203,0:12:48.121 it was a turning point for Sar 0:12:48.579,0:12:51.758 an end to hopes for democratic change in Cambodia 0:12:52.469,0:12:54.552 and even more painful was the personal loss 0:12:55.006,0:12:56.879 he experienced in its wake 0:12:59.227,0:13:04.699 it really marked his life Sun Son abandoned Solath Sar 0:13:04.939,0:13:07.639 to go out with Sihanouk's second in command 0:13:12.625,0:13:15.693 she gave herself to someone richer and better known 0:13:15.991,0:13:17.284 than Solath Sar 0:13:17.794,0:13:20.271 the poor revoltionary without a revolution 0:13:23.647,0:13:25.671 within a year Solath Sar had married 0:13:26.361,0:13:28.317 but a very different sort of woman 0:13:32.265,0:13:34.400 it wasn't surprising that he married Khieu Ponnary 0:13:34.835,0:13:37.318 because she was a committed member of the Communist Party 0:13:37.882,0:13:40.012 and she had been educated in France too 0:13:40.714,0:13:43.767 she was the most respected woman professor in Cambodia 0:13:47.952,0:13:51.085 it was to prove the perfect revoltionary marriage 0:13:51.515,0:13:54.367 the couple began to throw themselves into party work 0:13:57.919,0:14:00.244 the risks were greater than they had ever been 0:14:01.399,0:14:05.266 Prince Sihanouk had launched a campaign against the Communist Party 0:14:05.739,0:14:07.933 he'd begun to call it by a new name 0:14:09.063,0:14:10.197 the Khmer Rouge 0:14:13.792,0:14:15.463 more and more people were imprisoned 0:14:16.336,0:14:17.774 there were more killings 0:14:17.928,0:14:21.212 people were bribed persecuted and just gave up 0:14:21.881,0:14:25.094 and so our support base in the cities was under siege 0:14:27.139,0:14:31.541 Tuo Smout the party secretary was arrested by the security police 0:14:32.347,0:14:35.563 they took him to the outskirts of Phnom Penh and killed him 0:14:37.855,0:14:42.128 I went to see Solath Sar who was a member of the party's standing committee 0:14:43.197,0:14:45.358 I was the deputy secretary of the party 0:14:45.638,0:14:47.665 but I told him that I didnt want to lead it 0:14:49.907,0:14:52.621 i asked him to accept the leadership in my place 0:14:53.565,0:14:56.309 Nuon Chea had ensured that his comrade Solath Sar 0:14:56.421,0:14:58.741 would become Brother Nr 1 0:15:02.763,0:15:05.297 the police kept following me and knew my name 0:15:05.543,0:15:07.840 but had no idea of my postion 0:15:09.225,0:15:13.240 but by 1963 it was clear that I could no longer stay in Phnom Penh 0:15:13.940,0:15:21.693 and I returned to the forest to the Makee it would be another 12 years before he returned to Phnom Penh 0:15:22.691,0:15:25.371 not as Solath Sar but as Pol Pot 0:15:27.888,0:15:33.540 at first he was forced to rely again on his North Vietnamese comrades for food and shelter 0:15:34.205,0:15:37.788 they had established new camps on the Cambodian border 0:15:37.788,0:15:40.216 and were striking deep in South Vietnam 0:15:41.292,0:15:42.951 a powerful new enemy 0:15:43.060,0:15:45.098 had taken the place of the French in the South 0:15:45.591,0:15:49.181 one dedicated to preventing the spread of Communism 0:15:50.721,0:15:52.275 the United States 0:15:56.329,0:15:58.812 American bombers would fly Sortie after Sortie 0:15:58.868,0:16:01.998 in search of North Vietnamese Guerillas 0:16:02.398,0:16:04.786 dropping hundreds of thousands of tonnes of explosives 0:16:04.876,0:16:06.636 on a country they weren't at war with 0:16:12.034,0:16:13.197 over the next 10 years 0:16:13.495,0:16:19.086 nearly 150,000 Cambodians would die in American raids 0:16:19.526,0:16:21.573 most of them innocent villagers 0:16:23.053,0:16:25.726 Americans carried out more and more bombings and 0:16:25.802,0:16:28.612 the more they bombed us the more people came to join us 0:16:29.170,0:16:31.367 our forces were getting stronger 0:16:34.819,0:16:41.551 by 1968 Solath Sar and his comrades had established their own forest camps along the Vietnamese border 0:16:42.734,0:16:46.788 their forces were now known to all as the Khmer Rouge 0:16:49.858,0:16:53.013 Our leadership or command centre was known as K5 0:16:53.701,0:16:57.024 it was located quite far away from any of the local villages 0:16:57.706,0:17:00.707 camp K5 was where all the important meetings were held and 0:17:01.406,0:17:02.930 where Solath Sar lived 0:17:03.351,0:17:04.601 he had his own guards 0:17:04.640,0:17:05.609 lots of them 0:17:07.163,0:17:10.007 Solath Sar was no longer the first among equals 0:17:12.876,0:17:16.313 but the all powerful party chief Pol Pot 0:17:18.822,0:17:21.827 it wasn't just Solath Sar but all the leaders 0:17:21.827,0:17:24.994 we all changed our names to hide ourselves from the enemy 0:17:24.994,0:17:27.391 secrecy was vitally important without it 0:17:27.391,0:17:28.418 we couldn't win the war 0:17:31.039,0:17:32.998 Pol Pot chose to live apart 0:17:33.179,0:17:35.702 known only to a small circle within the party 0:17:37.903,0:17:42.634 and it was in this small circle that he began to fashio the new Cambodian Communism 0:17:43.750,0:17:46.153 I was in a very isolated rural area 0:17:47.125,0:17:50.239 and it was here that my views changed a good deal 0:17:51.558,0:17:54.129 it was really what we saw in the country 0:17:54.268,0:17:55.932 that made an impression on us 0:18:00.839,0:18:04.481 we studies a lot of papers mainly from the Soviet Union and China 0:18:05.213,0:18:08.474 we did put some of these theories into practice 0:18:08.777,0:18:12.524 but we adapted them to the situation in our own country 0:18:15.462,0:18:17.262 the lifeblood of Pols revolution 0:18:17.262,0:18:18.755 would be the country's poorest 0:18:19.260,0:18:21.891 non of the party's leaders were peasants 0:18:22.192,0:18:24.971 but Pol believed they'd risen above their origins by 0:18:25.050,0:18:28.389 by purifying themselves in the revolutionary struggle 0:18:31.930,0:18:33.968 new recruits to the Khymer Rouge were to follow 0:18:34.107,0:18:37.701 their example by dedicating themselves to the will of the party 0:18:37.799,0:18:38.677 leadership 0:18:38.872,0:18:40.250 to Angkar 0:18:41.508,0:18:43.894 they were often locked in a bamboo cell until 0:18:43.957,0:18:45.612 they had proven their obedience 0:18:45.614,0:18:47.189 and loyalty 0:18:47.788,0:18:51.848 from the first Pol imposed a rigid monastic disiplline 0:18:51.961,0:18:53.358 on the movement 0:19:12.178,0:19:15.252 everyone was required to attend regular lifestyle 0:19:15.252,0:19:19.252 meetings under the direction of a senior party official or cadre 0:19:20.286,0:19:22.535 nothing was to be hidden from Angkar 0:19:22.882,0:19:28.314 one by one those present were asked to confess their weaknesses and seek forgiveness 0:19:44.097,0:19:46.794 the same monastic discipline was expected of the peasants 0:19:46.824,0:19:49.793 living in the areas captured by the Khmer Rouge 0:19:50.798,0:19:53.343 but its soldiers were popular in the villages 0:19:59.559,0:20:01.165 if we stayed in a village 0:20:01.165,0:20:02.676 we would help clean the house 0:20:02.676,0:20:04.422 refill the water supply 0:20:05.014,0:20:06.567 my men looked after the villages 0:20:07.289,0:20:09.567 and what they saw what we were prepared to do for them 0:20:10.062,0:20:11.732 they began to support us 0:20:12.436,0:20:15.492 supply us with rice and many other things 0:20:16.844,0:20:19.511 at first there was only a trickle of new recruits 0:20:20.196,0:20:22.084 in 1970 it become a flood 0:20:23.383,0:20:28.950 an unlikely ally began to pull more and more peasants into the ranks of Pol Pol's army 0:20:34.372,0:20:40.086 with deep love for his motherland affectionately kisses a handful of dirt he has gathered 0:20:40.429,0:20:43.303 Cambodia's former King Sihanouk had been ousted 0:20:43.379,0:20:45.089 in a military coup 0:20:45.835,0:20:48.456 he now sought to make common cause with the Khmer Rouge 0:20:49.681,0:20:52.781 he was allowed to direct his own record of a visit to its jungle camps 0:20:53.713,0:20:56.928 the first public glimpse into its secretive world 0:20:58.661,0:21:01.251 Pol Pot was careful to remain in the shadows 0:21:02.117,0:21:07.191 but his revolution had for now drawn a new authority from the King's visit 0:21:10.873,0:21:16.463 by 1974 60,000 men and women armed with Chinese made weapons were 0:21:16.463,0:21:18.983 fighting in the ranks of the Khmer Rouge 0:21:19.744,0:21:22.664 Pol Pot's forces controlled two-thirds of the country 0:21:23.259,0:21:24.560 and even with American help 0:21:25.096,0:21:28.351 the new military government was losing its grip on the rest 0:21:32.455,0:21:34.526 in December 1974 0:21:34.612,0:21:39.219 Pol gave orders for the final assault on the capital Phnom Penh 0:21:44.199,0:21:49.937 refugees from the country filled the streets of a city that now numbered more than 2 million people 0:21:54.521,0:21:56.782 as the Khmer Rouge began to tighten its grip 0:21:57.224,0:21:59.238 those who could fled the city 0:22:02.250,0:22:05.415 the American Ambassador and his staff left on April the 12th 0:22:05.931,0:22:07.345 5 days later 0:22:07.608,0:22:09.329 all effective resistance ceased 0:22:09.927,0:22:11.391 the war was over 0:22:13.622,0:22:15.697 then suddenly it was so quiet 0:22:16.180,0:22:17.882 I stopped hearing the sound of the rockets 0:22:18.139,0:22:20.324 I stopped hearing the sound of the guns 0:22:20.431,0:22:21.485 I dont see the airplanes 0:22:21.552,0:22:24.374 i I dont see anything like that anymore 0:22:27.291,0:22:30.777 after 20 years of thinking planning fighting 0:22:31.159,0:22:34.168 Pol Pot was free to build his new society 0:22:34.890,0:22:37.411 by the new revolutionary calendar 0:22:37.709,0:22:40.409 April the 17th 1975 0:22:40.529,0:22:43.481 was Day One Year Zero 0:22:48.059,0:22:51.597 we welcomed the Khmer Rouge by raising any white material we could find 0:22:51.768,0:22:53.415 we thought it was the end of the war 0:22:53.803,0:22:56.018 then we were told to move on 0:22:56.358,0:23:01.084 Government soldiers who hadn't changed into civilian clothes were just shot dead on the spot 0:23:01.600,0:23:03.807 I was scared because I was in military uniform 0:23:03.987,0:23:06.354 and I rushed home to get changed 0:23:10.658,0:23:14.458 Pol Pot had ordered his forces to take the first great step forward 0:23:14.767,0:23:16.766 as soon as they occupied the city 0:23:18.671,0:23:19.701 2 million people 0:23:19.928,0:23:22.274 the entire population of the capital 0:23:22.274,0:23:24.512 were to be driven from their homes 0:23:31.368,0:23:33.138 they announced that everybody 0:23:33.143,0:23:35.327 the whole family must leave Phnom Penh and 0:23:35.327,0:23:37.643 and travel at least 3 kilometers from the city 0:23:38.768,0:23:41.970 they said the Americans were going to bomb the Phnom Penh and we would die 0:23:47.048,0:23:48.430 i saw people dying in the road 0:23:48.605,0:23:49.603 pregnant women 0:23:49.846,0:23:52.216 women who had just given birth to babies 0:23:52.338,0:23:54.513 sick people forced out of hospitals 0:23:55.419,0:23:58.157 some were helped by family members who could push them in carts 0:23:58.923,0:24:00.159 some who didn't have fmily 0:24:00.618,0:24:03.415 to help and just lay outside the hospital waiting to die 0:24:04.332,0:24:06.125 the was no American air raid 0:24:06.688,0:24:08.874 just the determination of the party leaders 0:24:08.874,0:24:10.318 to begin building their new society 0:24:11.322,0:24:12.398 no matter the cost 0:24:15.570,0:24:17.143 if we wish to defend the fruits 0:24:17.235,0:24:18.681 of the revolution 0:24:19.007,0:24:20.427 there must be no let-up 0:24:20.658,0:24:23.982 we must strike while the iron is hot to build Socialism 0:24:24.219,0:24:27.304 the party must exercise its leading role 0:24:27.820,0:24:30.240 with the use of cutting-edge violence 0:24:31.645,0:24:33.724 this is the most important factor 0:24:33.738,0:24:35.454 the decisive factor 0:24:35.706,0:24:38.179 the power that drives things forward 0:24:45.071,0:24:49.150 the Khmer Rouge had established check points on the roads beyond Phnom Penh 0:24:50.110,0:24:51.607 those who passed through them were 0:24:51.765,0:24:52.966 assigned a district where they could 0:24:53.246,0:24:57.045 begin their re-education as workers in the fields 0:25:01.823,0:25:03.806 camera's watches books 0:25:04.352,0:25:06.473 anything that set the people of the city apart 0:25:06.755,0:25:09.193 from the peasant were confiscated by Angkar 0:25:18.936,0:25:22.984 soldiers and officials in the former government were separated from the rest 0:25:24.021,0:25:26.391 their families would never see them again 0:25:33.071,0:25:35.266 in the streets the people had left behind 0:25:35.466,0:25:37.778 Pol's peasant soldiers were busy destroying 0:25:37.778,0:25:42.007 the symbols of a modern civilised world they didn't understand 0:25:46.759,0:25:49.515 the old and the sick they found hiding in their homes 0:25:50.015,0:25:51.295 were executed 0:25:53.262,0:25:56.255 lots of people died during the evacuation of the city 0:25:56.775,0:25:58.505 not many people died 0:25:58.587,0:25:59.777 later on yes 0:25:59.777,0:26:02.737 but during the evacuation they were still physically strong 0:26:06.357,0:26:11.867 in reality 20,000 people died on the roads out of Phnom Penh 0:26:13.849,0:26:16.283 they were casualities in a new war 0:26:16.964,0:26:19.199 one that was to be fought by the party 0:26:19.904,0:26:21.266 on the home front 0:26:28.414,0:26:30.196 how should we organise our action 0:26:30.209,0:26:32.263 it is the same as in war 0:26:33.453,0:26:35.918 we must prepare offences for the whole country 0:26:38.249,0:26:40.000 we learn this in the war 0:26:40.188,0:26:43.187 if the command is strong we will win 0:26:43.191,0:26:45.907 the same goes for building uo the economy 0:26:48.423,0:26:50.959 the new Democratic Kampuchea had taken 0:26:50.969,0:26:53.520 a deliberate step back in the dark ages 0:26:54.933,0:26:57.412 Angkar wanted everyone to be a peasant 0:27:02.046,0:27:04.832 the people of the countries, town and cities were 0:27:04.918,0:27:07.701 to purify themselves through manual labour 0:27:08.124,0:27:12.187 everyone had to work in the fields and dress in the same way 0:27:12.397,0:27:15.779 but not everyone in the new socialist were equal 0:27:15.856,0:27:18.610 the city people were the new people 0:27:23.434,0:27:27.299 they treated us very differetnly from the country people 0:27:28.356,0:27:32.134 they swore at us and used filthy language 0:27:32.306,0:27:34.002 they said we wer capitalists 0:27:34.623,0:27:37.430 I must admit that I didn't know how to farm 0:27:37.803,0:27:40.268 I didn't even know what a rice seedling was 0:27:45.956,0:27:50.833 first in the queue for food in the communal kitchens were the poorest peasants 0:27:51.548,0:27:53.771 they were entitled to the full ration 0:27:55.955,0:27:58.736 last to be served were the new people from the towns 0:27:59.568,0:28:01.160 and there was never enough 0:28:02.268,0:28:03.911 food was control 0:28:04.890,0:28:07.030 hunger a weapon for re-education 0:28:10.861,0:28:13.090 foraging for more food was forbidden 0:28:13.820,0:28:15.887 those caught picking fruit were guilty 0:28:15.887,0:28:18.497 not just of stealing from Angkar but 0:28:18.497,0:28:20.793 of an even more serious crime 0:28:21.031,0:28:22.023 individualism 0:28:26.915,0:28:30.706 if you didn't follow the rules then you would be criticised and forced 0:28:30.706,0:28:31.630 to bend to them 0:28:32.633,0:28:35.531 the policy was to make the people be of one mind 0:28:37.636,0:28:39.163 whether you wanted to or not 0:28:39.320,0:28:41.802 you would bend to the rules and behave like the rest 0:28:45.347,0:28:48.251 this lesson was drummed into the new peasants by 0:28:48.251,0:28:49.876 Khmer Rouge cadre 0:28:50.979,0:28:52.380 in Pol's new society 0:28:52.812,0:28:54.511 everything was to be shared 0:28:54.983,0:28:56.000 even children 0:28:57.168,0:28:59.322 they were to live from the age of seven with 0:28:59.322,0:29:01.412 their Khmer Rouge instructors 0:29:16.323,0:29:20.855 love was selfish too now Angkar would chose who men and women 0:29:20.999,0:29:24.048 should marry in the interests of everybody 0:29:27.526,0:29:30.806 they made a statement saying that these two are falling in love 0:29:30.806,0:29:32.575 without permission from the Angkar 0:29:32.575,0:29:33.988 what should we do 0:29:34.134,0:29:36.565 I mean I was there also as cheerer 0:29:36.754,0:29:39.056 kill them kill them and kill them 0:29:39.812,0:29:45.511 and then the cadres took the hose and hit the man 0:29:45.848,0:29:52.552 I can see it today how strong a human can resist to die 0:29:52.701,0:29:54.850 when you hit you go back like this 0:29:54.891,0:29:57.293 when you hit you push back like this 0:29:57.293,0:30:00.246 and the blood is coming from the eye the ear and the nose 0:30:00.246,0:30:02.343 and then they unblindfolded the lady 0:30:02.590,0:30:04.990 and she looks like a piece of white paper 0:30:06.114,0:30:10.020 I didn't know how frightened she was and how scared she was 0:30:10.231,0:30:12.458 but then they hit her 0:30:12.505,0:30:15.081 and I don't think both were dead yet 0:30:15.144,0:30:16.749 and they pushed them into the grave 0:30:16.749,0:30:19.724 that they dug in front of the Pol 0:30:19.994,0:30:21.352 and then they buried them 0:30:21.352,0:30:23.102 I think that they were buried alive 0:30:24.466,0:30:26.624 there was only the will of Angkar 0:30:27.339,0:30:28.566 those that defied it 0:30:28.783,0:30:31.215 were bad elements and bad elements 0:30:31.215,0:30:32.623 were taken into the forest 0:30:33.633,0:30:37.343 district officials wielded almost absolute power 0:30:37.627,0:30:40.115 no matter their education or age 0:30:43.113,0:30:45.486 she was our village chief from the Western Zone 0:30:45.605,0:30:46.992 her name was Comrade Ode 0:30:46.993,0:30:50.671 she was 12 years old and she ran the whole village 0:30:51.217,0:30:52.918 if she said you go you go 0:30:52.955,0:30:54.287 you stay you stay 0:30:54.287,0:30:55.972 you die you die 0:31:05.555,0:31:08.939 Pol told his comrades that the purity of their revolution 0:31:09.113,0:31:12.138 was an example to the rest of the Communist world 0:31:13.137,0:31:15.807 in April1976 his new government held 0:31:16.223,0:31:17.458 a parade in Phnom Penh 0:31:17.692,0:31:20.879 to celebrate the progress it had made in just a year 0:31:23.922,0:31:26.009 the enthusiasm was genuine 0:31:26.550,0:31:29.534 the party believed the country was marching into a new 0:31:29.534,0:31:32.238 enlightened age of perfect equality 0:31:32.853,0:31:36.911 re-educating the people on the land was the first priority for the revolution 0:31:37.570,0:31:41.571 more important than industry trade and even money 0:31:43.412,0:31:45.677 money is an instrument that 0:31:45.697,0:31:47.622 creates privilege and power 0:31:47.631,0:31:49.664 those that posses it can use it 0:31:49.664,0:31:51.806 to bribe our party cadres 0:31:51.806,0:31:54.174 undermine our system 0:31:54.174,0:31:55.808 money constitutes a danger 0:31:56.009,0:31:58.308 both now and in the future 0:31:58.599,0:32:00.957 we must not be in a hurry to use it 0:32:05.555,0:32:07.168 Pol promised clinics and schools 0:32:07.480,0:32:10.351 but those responsible for building them were 0:32:10.483,0:32:13.338 busy in their ministry's vegetable gardens 0:32:15.153,0:32:17.858 the new government officials were even encouraged to grow 0:32:17.978,0:32:19.595 rice in the city's empty streets 0:32:19.773,0:32:21.955 and on its basketball courts 0:32:22.146,0:32:24.667 Angkar condemned sport as Bourgeois 0:32:26.440,0:32:28.111 ministry officials were so busy 0:32:28.111,0:32:30.072 proving they were peasants too 0:32:30.414,0:32:35.025 there was almost no effective control over what was happening in the countryside 0:32:54.327,0:32:57.934 radio Phnom Penh was the voice of the new society 0:32:59.099,0:33:01.530 the people were forced to listen to monologues about 0:33:01.530,0:33:03.180 outstanding successes 0:33:03.837,0:33:06.196 some scripted by Pol himself 0:33:20.977,0:33:23.162 the reality was very different 0:33:28.772,0:33:31.563 the party leadership had demanded 3 tons of 0:33:31.563,0:33:34.027 unhusked rice per hectare 0:33:34.241,0:33:36.578 and yet its new army of peasants was barely 0:33:36.578,0:33:38.439 managing to deliver one ton 0:33:40.018,0:33:42.259 a camera crew from communist Yugoslavia 0:33:42.259,0:33:45.507 was able to glimpse and record something of the truth 0:33:49.572,0:33:51.584 it was an extraordinary sight 0:33:51.920,0:33:55.120 thousands of dedicated workers building canals and dams for 0:33:55.131,0:33:59.343 Angkar but close by rice fields were almost empty 0:34:02.632,0:34:04.584 two thirds of the people in my commune worked 0:34:04.584,0:34:07.783 elsewhere building dams digging canals 0:34:07.783,0:34:09.467 and so on 0:34:10.477,0:34:14.419 just a third actually worked in the rice firelds growing rice 0:34:14.419,0:34:17.886 and the rice they produced just couldn't feed everyone 0:34:22.319,0:34:25.799 a third of the population was sick hungry or both 0:34:26.541,0:34:28.838 thousand were dying of malnutrition 0:34:29.382,0:34:32.094 and Pol's vision of the New Democratic Kampuchea 0:34:32.094,0:34:33.570 was dying with them 0:34:38.203,0:34:39.871 but Pol's confidence in his new society 0:34:39.871,0:34:42.813 was unshakeable if the revolution was fading 0:34:42.813,0:34:45.193 there could only be one explanation 0:34:47.957,0:34:50.982 there is a sickness inside the party 0:34:51.006,0:34:54.105 now as our socialist revolution advances 0:34:54.105,0:34:57.257 we can locate these ugly microbes 0:34:58.045,0:35:01.443 they will rot society rot the party and rot the army 0:35:02.428,0:35:06.693 they have been infiltrating the party and they remain 0:35:10.695,0:35:13.152 it was a fear of hidden enemies born 0:35:13.164,0:35:15.761 in the years of secret struggle in the jungle 0:35:16.434,0:35:18.775 the leaders of the party were turning on the 0:35:18.775,0:35:23.142 party itself blaming it for the hunger in the countryside 0:35:26.724,0:35:29.648 some of the people who were in charge of districts 0:35:29.648,0:35:31.792 and provinces were our enemies 0:35:31.922,0:35:34.432 they were in our party 0:35:34.646,0:35:36.539 they destroyed our rice yield 0:35:36.923,0:35:39.084 our policy was to feed the people well 0:35:39.084,0:35:40.267 and equally 0:35:43.741,0:35:47.457 but these traitors didn't follow our policy and we 0:35:47.457,0:35:50.608 couldn't control them because there weren't enough senior 0:35:50.608,0:35:52.332 party cadres 0:35:53.438,0:35:55.093 the leadership had lost control 0:35:55.093,0:35:56.583 of most of the country 0:35:56.891,0:35:58.211 a lot of it 0:35:58.684,0:36:01.824 is that why the purges started of the party 0:36:01.924,0:36:03.692 yes that is right 0:36:07.102,0:36:09.956 the enemies of Angkar were taken to a former school 0:36:09.956,0:36:11.750 on the outskirts of Phnom Penh 0:36:11.750,0:36:13.107 Toul Sleng 0:36:13.288,0:36:16.139 it was known simply as S21 0:36:16.236,0:36:18.848 the state secret interrogation centre 0:36:19.087,0:36:24.161 it would hold those who had once been the revolution's most loyal supporters 0:36:24.613,0:36:27.092 more than 14,000 people would pass through this 0:36:27.092,0:36:29.483 prison in a little over three years 0:36:33.649,0:36:36.527 the truck came along this road and stopped 0:36:36.527,0:36:38.127 at the main gate 0:36:38.947,0:36:41.336 we then took the prisoners from here and walked them 0:36:41.336,0:36:44.321 to the registry where the registrar team made 0:36:44.321,0:36:46.760 a list of all their names and 0:36:46.760,0:36:49.302 then they were sent to Nyem Ens photographic group 0:36:49.302,0:36:51.325 in this building here 0:36:58.923,0:37:03.028 everyone who arrived at S21 was photographed for the prison records 0:37:10.540,0:37:12.830 some of the prisoners were very frightened they were 0:37:12.830,0:37:15.789 trembling some were all right but they did not know 0:37:15.789,0:37:17.051 what was going on 0:37:17.051,0:37:18.886 they hadn't been interrogated yet 0:37:24.254,0:37:25.635 I never thought that I would be arrested 0:37:25.635,0:37:27.446 but when I arrived here 0:37:27.446,0:37:29.523 I knew I was going to die 0:37:29.523,0:37:31.752 that was why I begged them to take 0:37:31.752,0:37:33.463 care of my family 0:37:33.463,0:37:36.810 I was kicked to the groung just for asking the question 0:37:38.403,0:37:40.959 Chum Mey was just one of just 7 prisoners to 0:37:40.959,0:37:44.595 survive out of the 14,000 that passed through the S21 0:37:45.713,0:37:48.649 he'd been working as a mechanic for the Khmer Rouge 0:37:50.907,0:37:53.773 to this day I want to know what I've done wrong 0:37:53.773,0:37:55.978 that they should be so cruel to me 0:37:56.817,0:37:58.999 to kill my family all my children 0:38:00.369,0:38:01.721 what mistakes did I make 0:38:01.721,0:38:02.744 why? 0:38:03.966,0:38:06.262 every day I ask myself this question 0:38:17.502,0:38:18.614 the photograph was taken of the prisoners 0:38:18.614,0:38:20.889 in their first hours of captivity 0:38:20.889,0:38:23.860 are a lasting record of the men women 0:38:23.860,0:38:26.721 and children who passed through the S21 0:38:35.203,0:38:36.918 normally when they arrested the husband 0:38:36.918,0:38:38.927 his wife was also taken 0:38:38.927,0:38:41.070 it was very rare for a husband 0:38:41.070,0:38:43.520 to be arrested without his wife 0:38:46.448,0:38:50.333 if the prisoner had a baby then we photographed them together 0:38:54.719,0:38:56.690 once the prisoners had been photographed 0:38:56.690,0:38:58.557 they were taken to the cells 0:39:05.161,0:39:08.556 this is cell number 1 number 2 and 3 0:39:09.988,0:39:12.512 this cell number 3 where they put me 0:39:13.864,0:39:16.608 those the interrogators wished to question closely where 0:39:16.608,0:39:18.369 held on their own 0:39:19.703,0:39:21.610 this was the chain for my feet 0:39:23.858,0:39:25.644 they took off my handcuffs and 0:39:27.050,0:39:28.955 then the blindfold and then they let 0:39:28.955,0:39:30.385 me go to sleep 0:39:32.026,0:39:34.036 to move your body over 0:39:34.036,0:39:36.195 you need to ask for permission 0:39:36.195,0:39:38.264 the guards walked up and down the corridor 0:39:38.264,0:39:39.566 if you didn't ask permisson 0:39:39.566,0:39:41.921 they would give you a hundred lashes 0:39:50.779,0:39:54.880 it was like this every day for 12 days and 12 nights 0:39:58.518,0:40:00.219 it was really terrible 0:40:12.947,0:40:15.250 children too young to be interrogated were 0:40:15.250,0:40:17.303 separated from their mothers 0:40:25.941,0:40:28.060 they told the mothers that they would take 0:40:28.060,0:40:30.222 their children to the children's centre 0:40:30.662,0:40:32.873 and the mothers had to let it happen 0:40:37.098,0:40:38.674 my boss Mr Peng 0:40:38.674,0:40:41.094 he took charge of the children 0:40:41.094,0:40:42.677 his men took them not far from here 0:40:42.677,0:40:44.979 and then killed them 0:40:53.132,0:40:55.459 they took me for interrogation here 0:40:55.459,0:40:56.720 they asked me 0:40:56.720,0:40:59.121 when did you join the CIA 0:40:59.121,0:41:00.597 when did you join the KGB 0:41:01.750,0:41:03.785 they said I had to tell Angker everything 0:41:03.785,0:41:05.398 or I would die 0:41:05.698,0:41:08.466 I honestly didn't know what the CIA or KGB were 0:41:13.260,0:41:15.889 they pulled out my toe nails 0:41:15.889,0:41:17.062 the toe nails on both feet 0:41:17.062,0:41:19.586 by using pliers to tear them out 0:41:20.899,0:41:23.323 on the third day they gave me electric 0:41:23.593,0:41:24.926 shocks because I kept denying 0:41:24.926,0:41:26.679 their accusations 0:41:28.852,0:41:30.747 after 12 days of torture 0:41:30.747,0:41:31.947 Chum Mey confessed 0:41:33.299,0:41:34.843 everybody confessed in the end 0:41:38.865,0:41:41.138 Chum Mey's confession was typed and 0:41:41.138,0:41:42.837 carefully filed with his photograph 0:41:42.837,0:41:44.272 in the prison's archive 0:41:45.559,0:41:47.411 it was and unstoppable tide 0:41:48.070,0:41:51.195 every man and woman tortured was forced to give the 0:41:51.195,0:41:53.193 machine new names 0:41:56.139,0:41:58.594 for some of its files the prison office 0:41:58.594,0:42:00.232 ordered a second photograph 0:42:01.239,0:42:03.277 when the prisoner had died under torture 0:42:19.184,0:42:21.764 sometimes the photographer was called to the interrogation 0:42:21.764,0:42:24.852 room while the prisoner was dying like 0:42:24.889,0:42:25.762 this man 0:42:29.375,0:42:31.443 those who survived interrogation 0:42:31.443,0:42:33.151 made one last journey 0:42:34.678,0:42:36.996 they were driven to a place called Choeung Ek on the 0:42:36.996,0:42:38.725 outskirts of the city 0:42:43.536,0:42:45.257 I was the one who drove them to Choeung Ek 0:42:49.965,0:42:51.138 the prisoners were killed in the open 0:42:51.138,0:42:53.046 space on the slope there 0:42:55.665,0:42:57.718 there were grave pits that were already dug 0:42:57.968,0:43:00.025 and the prisoners were taken to them one by one 0:43:04.277,0:43:06.284 they were told to kneel down and they were hit with 0:43:06.284,0:43:08.005 a long metal pole 0:43:09.340,0:43:10.837 an axle of an ox cart 0:43:12.620,0:43:14.371 after they had been struck 0:43:14.371,0:43:16.708 their throats were cut to make sure they were dead 0:43:19.129,0:43:20.906 no one wanted to kill 0:43:21.954,0:43:23.619 but we had to carry out our orders 0:43:27.881,0:43:30.467 this is the killing field of Choeung Ek 0:43:30.467,0:43:32.363 but there were other killing fields 0:43:33.507,0:43:36.290 200 prisons 20,000 grave sites 0:43:37.742,0:43:39.718 the remains of men women and children 0:43:39.718,0:43:41.717 are scattered across the Choeung Ek 0:43:41.717,0:43:42.653 field to this day 0:43:43.955,0:43:45.115 many of those who died here 0:43:45.115,0:43:47.753 were among Pol Pot's most loyal supporters 0:43:50.140,0:43:52.901 many former comrades of yours 0:43:52.901,0:43:54.189 senior members of the party 0:43:54.189,0:43:56.685 were purged and lost their lives 0:44:00.044,0:44:03.025 not many some didn't admit their mistakes 0:44:03.586,0:44:05.706 but others knew and they admitted them in our meetings 0:44:05.981,0:44:07.485 and they were accepted 0:44:07.618,0:44:08.738 we didn't kill many 0:44:09.361,0:44:11.517 we killed only the bad people 0:44:11.676,0:44:13.016 not the good 0:44:15.621,0:44:18.002 for Pol the purges were a great victory 0:44:18.002,0:44:21.491 but his ruthless pursuit of the imaginary enemy within 0:44:21.491,0:44:25.814 would lead to the final collapse of the revolution he was trying to defend 0:44:28.245,0:44:29.461 there was a new enemy beyond the 0:44:29.461,0:44:30.777 country's border 0:44:30.777,0:44:31.759 Vietnam 0:44:32.321,0:44:34.253 there had been a bitter border dispute 0:44:34.253,0:44:36.475 the old comrades were close 0:44:36.475,0:44:38.267 to outright war 0:44:38.267,0:44:40.167 but in the Spring of 1978 0:44:40.167,0:44:43.959 Pol ordered his last and bloodiest purge 0:44:50.568,0:44:53.813 this time the blow fell in the country's Eastern Zone 0:44:54.161,0:44:57.270 the vital security area on the border with Vietnam 0:44:58.313,0:45:00.800 the soldiers and party officials who were expected to repel 0:45:00.800,0:45:02.920 an invasion were driven by the 0:45:02.920,0:45:06.306 lorry load to local interrogation centres 0:45:06.306,0:45:07.908 a hundred thousand men 0:45:07.908,0:45:11.709 their wives and their children were executed 0:45:17.797,0:45:19.713 I saw these people in a school building 0:45:19.713,0:45:22.663 they were being blind folded and shot 0:45:25.874,0:45:27.350 I asked the executioners 0:45:27.350,0:45:29.879 if babies in their mother's arms were traitors too 0:45:29.879,0:45:33.930 I ordered them to release the prisoners 0:45:33.930,0:45:35.679 the total number was about a thousand people 0:45:35.679,0:45:38.132 but only 600 were released 0:45:38.132,0:45:40.561 400 people had been killed before I got there 0:45:41.649,0:45:44.291 I told them we need people to defend the country 0:45:44.291,0:45:46.078 and if thousands were being slaughtered 0:45:46.078,0:45:47.935 who would be there to do it 0:45:52.898,0:45:54.647 the Vietnamese invasion began 0:45:54.647,0:45:56.255 in the country's Eastern Zone 0:45:56.255,0:45:57.332 on Christmas day 0:45:57.332,0:45:58.277 in 1978 0:45:59.737,0:46:01.975 13 days later Phnom Penh fell 0:46:03.275,0:46:05.362 the collapse was total 0:46:06.997,0:46:10.140 Pol Pot slipped back into the forest 0:46:11.696,0:46:13.435 the long nightmare 0:46:13.435,0:46:16.567 3 years 8 months and 20 days was over 0:46:17.606,0:46:19.795 and at last the world knew of the Killing Fields 0:46:19.795,0:46:22.270 where nearly 2 million people had died 0:46:25.623,0:46:28.957 this was the end of Pol Pot's revolutionary dream 0:46:33.890,0:46:35.967 it was not the end of Pol 0:46:36.181,0:46:39.225 the Khmer Rouge would fight on in the jungle for 0:46:39.225,0:46:41.245 almost 20 years 0:46:48.765,0:46:50.823 Pol Pot died in 1998 0:46:51.939,0:46:53.677 6 months before he died 0:46:53.677,0:46:55.456 he spoke to an American journalist 0:46:55.456,0:46:56.901 about the revolution he had lead 0:46:58.277,0:47:00.887 he was asked whether he felt any responsibility 0:47:00.887,0:47:03.240 for the suffering the deaths of 0:47:03.240,0:47:04.928 so many of his own people 0:47:08.124,0:47:09.476 I want to tell you 0:47:09.476,0:47:12.058 my conscience is clear 0:47:12.266,0:47:14.251 everything I have done is first 0:47:14.251,0:47:17.699 and foremost for the nation and the people 0:47:18.421,0:47:20.507 the people of Cambodia 0:47:24.981,0:47:26.888 how could his conscience be clear 0:47:26.888,0:47:28.887 when so many people had lost their lives 0:47:29.256,0:47:30.889 1.7 million people 0:47:31.856,0:47:33.549 I'm not sure about the numbers 0:47:33.549,0:47:35.792 but for him his conscience was clear 0:47:35.792,0:47:37.193 it was our enemies in the party 0:47:37.193,0:47:39.386 without his knowledge 0:47:40.386,0:47:44.837 Pol Pot's deputy lives a quiet comfortable life in Cambodia 0:47:48.601,0:47:51.598 every year on the anniversary of the fall of Phnom Penh 0:47:52.229,0:47:54.707 people gather at the Choeung Ek Killing Fields 0:47:55.041,0:47:57.004 to demand justice for the dead 0:47:57.575,0:47:59.888 no one had ever been put on trial 0:48:02.086,0:48:04.206 the United Nations would like to call those 0:48:04.206,0:48:05.889 who were responsible before 0:48:05.889,0:48:07.894 an international tribunal 0:48:08.605,0:48:10.935 but until now they have been sheltered 0:48:10.935,0:48:13.005 by a Cambodian government 0:48:13.005,0:48:14.996 that is dominated by former members 0:48:14.996,0:48:16.269 of the Khmer Rouge 0:48:17.996,0:48:19.977 the chief architect of the revolution is beyond 0:48:19.977,0:48:23.556 international justice but his legacy 0:48:23.556,0:48:25.874 haunts his country 0:48:25.874,0:48:27.054 to this day