WEBVTT 00:00:05.107 --> 00:00:06.495 "Hello, Pastor Tim. 00:00:06.495 --> 00:00:08.457 I'm a born again Christian and working on 00:00:08.457 --> 00:00:12.589 that close relationship with Jesus Christ. 00:00:12.589 --> 00:00:14.607 Your online videos have been a blessing. 00:00:14.607 --> 00:00:15.768 Here's my dilemma: 00:00:15.768 --> 00:00:18.297 I work in the marketing department 00:00:18.297 --> 00:00:22.826 of a hospital that is..." 00:00:22.826 --> 00:00:24.997 (I find this kind of confusing), 00:00:24.997 --> 00:00:27.457 "...in a hospital that is focused 00:00:27.457 --> 00:00:31.927 on the Gospel and Christianity. 00:00:31.927 --> 00:00:35.357 However, the base denomination 00:00:35.357 --> 00:00:39.149 of this hospital system is Catholic. 00:00:39.149 --> 00:00:40.687 Of course, we have people of 00:00:40.687 --> 00:00:43.165 all denominations and belief systems 00:00:43.165 --> 00:00:45.976 throughout our hospitals and clinics. 00:00:45.976 --> 00:00:48.486 In the last five years that I've worked here, 00:00:48.486 --> 00:00:50.788 we have never opened a meeting 00:00:50.788 --> 00:00:56.818 with a prayer to anyone other than God and Jesus. 00:00:56.818 --> 00:00:58.736 Our health services are directed 00:00:58.736 --> 00:01:00.217 by the manual: 00:01:00.217 --> 00:01:02.447 'Ethical and Religious Directives 00:01:02.447 --> 00:01:04.787 for Catholic Healthcare Services,' 00:01:04.787 --> 00:01:06.685 as set forth by the United States 00:01:06.685 --> 00:01:09.187 Conference of Catholic Bishops. 00:01:09.187 --> 00:01:12.294 Now, I don't put any faith 00:01:12.294 --> 00:01:13.695 into what the Catholic church 00:01:13.695 --> 00:01:15.606 teaches or instructs, 00:01:15.606 --> 00:01:17.286 such as praying to Mary, saints, 00:01:17.286 --> 00:01:19.384 confessions through priests, etc. 00:01:19.384 --> 00:01:22.298 What is your opinion and recommendation 00:01:22.298 --> 00:01:24.854 of me continuing to work in this environment? 00:01:24.854 --> 00:01:27.206 Thank you for your opinion. 00:01:27.206 --> 00:01:29.837 Alissa." NOTE Paragraph 00:01:29.837 --> 00:01:35.725 You know, I find it to be a fairly frequent question, 00:01:35.725 --> 00:01:38.377 especially when you're in a church 00:01:38.377 --> 00:01:43.437 where you're seeing some new converts. 00:01:43.437 --> 00:01:46.765 When we're getting new people 00:01:46.765 --> 00:01:48.887 saved in the church, 00:01:48.887 --> 00:01:51.627 this can be a fairly regular thing. 00:01:51.627 --> 00:01:54.235 And the truth is when we were back at Fatty's, 00:01:54.235 --> 00:01:57.136 I remember (meeting at the restaurant) - 00:01:57.136 --> 00:01:59.736 I remember when Charles Leiter came down here. 00:01:59.736 --> 00:02:01.825 He told me that he was amazed 00:02:01.825 --> 00:02:04.605 because he was asking people 00:02:04.605 --> 00:02:06.085 about their testimonies, 00:02:06.085 --> 00:02:09.787 and he was just amazed 00:02:09.787 --> 00:02:11.997 at how many of the people had been saved 00:02:11.997 --> 00:02:13.797 in the last year. 00:02:13.797 --> 00:02:17.317 In fact, I don't know if anybody remembers 00:02:17.317 --> 00:02:18.706 that may have been there 00:02:18.706 --> 00:02:21.788 the very first Fellowship Conference 00:02:21.788 --> 00:02:23.926 when it was held in Norman, Oklahoma. 00:02:23.926 --> 00:02:27.426 Charles actually asked everybody there 00:02:27.426 --> 00:02:30.255 to raise their hands if they'd been saved 00:02:30.255 --> 00:02:31.867 in the previous twelve months, 00:02:31.867 --> 00:02:34.166 and it was amazing how many hands went up. 00:02:34.166 --> 00:02:37.537 When you have that many new believers, 00:02:37.537 --> 00:02:40.244 you tend to run into a lot of these questions 00:02:40.244 --> 00:02:44.595 about: okay, God saved me; 00:02:44.595 --> 00:02:48.668 now I'm having some problems 00:02:48.668 --> 00:02:53.446 trying to figure out whether my work situation is right; 00:02:53.446 --> 00:02:56.028 whether this is where I should stay. 00:02:56.028 --> 00:03:01.155 Now, some are black and white. 00:03:01.155 --> 00:03:08.416 It's a no-brainer. 00:03:08.416 --> 00:03:11.757 Give me some examples 00:03:11.757 --> 00:03:14.505 of some that are no-brainers. 00:03:14.505 --> 00:03:15.608 (from the room) 00:03:15.608 --> 00:03:17.187 Working in an abortion clinic. 00:03:17.187 --> 00:03:19.526 Tim: You work in an abortion clinic. 00:03:19.526 --> 00:03:20.857 You're an abortion doctor. 00:03:20.857 --> 00:03:22.317 You're performing abortions. 00:03:22.317 --> 00:03:24.945 You get saved. No-brainer. 00:03:24.945 --> 00:03:28.297 You don't kill children. 00:03:28.297 --> 00:03:30.555 You're Hector Martinez. 00:03:30.555 --> 00:03:34.138 You're working on the border for the cartel. 00:03:34.138 --> 00:03:35.757 You get saved. 00:03:35.757 --> 00:03:40.178 Yeah, you stop shooting people, right? 00:03:40.178 --> 00:03:42.906 What are some other no-brainers? 00:03:42.906 --> 00:03:48.977 I mean, I know we've had 00:03:48.977 --> 00:03:51.765 a young lady working for a gentlemen's club - 00:03:51.765 --> 00:03:54.356 kind of a no-brainer. 00:03:54.356 --> 00:03:59.878 What are some maybe other examples? 00:03:59.878 --> 00:04:01.616 (unintelligible) 00:04:01.616 --> 00:04:07.818 Well, I'm not going to put that one in the grey area. 00:04:07.818 --> 00:04:10.837 Being a bartender. 00:04:10.837 --> 00:04:13.388 Now you may think that's a no-brainer. 00:04:13.388 --> 00:04:16.426 But I want to put it in the grey area 00:04:16.426 --> 00:04:22.036 because it's not exactly like these. 00:04:22.036 --> 00:04:25.426 How about anybody know Richard Bennett? 00:04:25.426 --> 00:04:27.065 He was a Catholic priest. 00:04:27.065 --> 00:04:28.246 He got saved. 00:04:28.246 --> 00:04:32.377 He stopped being a Catholic priest. 00:04:32.377 --> 00:04:34.335 Here's the thing about all those examples 00:04:34.335 --> 00:04:36.956 when I say they're no-brainers. 00:04:36.956 --> 00:04:39.646 The individual themselves 00:04:39.646 --> 00:04:42.685 were being required to sin 00:04:42.685 --> 00:04:45.855 to do what they did. 00:04:45.855 --> 00:04:50.275 When you're a bartender, 00:04:50.275 --> 00:04:52.714 that's different. 00:04:52.714 --> 00:04:56.337 You're mixing drinks. 00:04:56.337 --> 00:04:59.837 Now, if you actually have a conviction 00:04:59.837 --> 00:05:03.045 that alcohol is absolutely forbidden in Scripture, 00:05:03.045 --> 00:05:05.535 you may say, 00:05:05.535 --> 00:05:08.367 well, I believe he's sinning. 00:05:08.367 --> 00:05:11.626 Now, I don't think that's what Scripture teaches 00:05:11.626 --> 00:05:14.675 and I'm not trying to advocate you all 00:05:14.675 --> 00:05:18.996 run out and experiment. 00:05:18.996 --> 00:05:22.222 But I don't think that that necessarily 00:05:22.222 --> 00:05:25.403 in and of itself is causing the person 00:05:25.403 --> 00:05:33.612 to sin just in the way of mixing drinks. 00:05:33.612 --> 00:05:35.743 Now, it may bring up another question: 00:05:35.743 --> 00:05:37.803 Am I causing other people to sin? 00:05:37.803 --> 00:05:39.654 And in causing other people to sin, 00:05:39.654 --> 00:05:43.883 is that bad? Am I doing bad? 00:05:43.883 --> 00:05:46.893 But you've got kind of the no-brainer 00:05:46.893 --> 00:05:51.122 where you are being required to sin. 00:05:51.122 --> 00:05:55.702 Now, I think even there, 00:05:55.702 --> 00:05:57.641 even if I'm being required to sin, 00:05:57.641 --> 00:06:00.179 I need to look at it and ask the question: 00:06:00.179 --> 00:06:02.603 is the very job itself by the nature of it 00:06:02.603 --> 00:06:03.826 requires me to sin? 00:06:03.826 --> 00:06:06.527 Obviously, that of a Catholic priest - yes, it does. 00:06:06.527 --> 00:06:08.543 Obviously if I'm involved in the cartel - 00:06:08.543 --> 00:06:09.412 yes, it does. 00:06:09.412 --> 00:06:11.562 Obviously, if I'm involved in abortion? 00:06:11.562 --> 00:06:28.382 Absolutely. 00:06:28.382 --> 00:06:33.913 But I may actually be doing a job 00:06:33.913 --> 00:06:38.452 where the job itself does not 00:06:38.452 --> 00:06:41.152 fundamentally require sin. 00:06:41.152 --> 00:06:45.193 Like, let's say a used car dealership. 00:06:45.193 --> 00:06:48.292 Let's say it's owned by a guy that's crooked, 00:06:48.292 --> 00:06:49.903 and if you work for him, 00:06:49.903 --> 00:06:51.882 you're going to take advantage of people 00:06:51.882 --> 00:06:53.563 and you're going to lie to people 00:06:53.563 --> 00:06:55.273 and you're going to tell them - 00:06:55.273 --> 00:06:57.111 James and I met with somebody today 00:06:57.111 --> 00:06:59.493 and it's like they basically told him 00:06:59.493 --> 00:07:04.992 a little old couple owned the van. 00:07:04.992 --> 00:07:07.701 Yeah, right. Used salesman. 00:07:07.701 --> 00:07:11.892 A little old lady that only drove it to church on Sundays. 00:07:11.892 --> 00:07:14.911 If I'm working for a used car dealership 00:07:14.911 --> 00:07:16.932 and I'm being expected to lie 00:07:16.932 --> 00:07:18.260 and cheat people, 00:07:18.260 --> 00:07:19.992 and suddenly I get saved, 00:07:19.992 --> 00:07:21.941 that job actually is actually a job 00:07:21.941 --> 00:07:26.883 that could be done honestly and faithfully. 00:07:26.883 --> 00:07:28.942 So you kind of have to differentiate 00:07:28.942 --> 00:07:32.061 when you're dealing with: 00:07:32.061 --> 00:07:35.272 should I quit the job? 00:07:35.272 --> 00:07:39.442 Ruby's brother was a classic example. 00:07:39.442 --> 00:07:44.444 He worked for a major shipping company - 00:07:44.444 --> 00:07:49.012 truck freight. 00:07:49.012 --> 00:07:52.332 These bill of ladings would come in 00:07:52.332 --> 00:07:54.722 with the shipments. 00:07:54.722 --> 00:07:56.723 And you know what they'd do? 00:07:56.723 --> 00:08:00.443 They would basically look on there and say, 00:08:00.443 --> 00:08:07.443 okay, we've got 46 stereos on these pallets. 00:08:07.443 --> 00:08:09.342 And they'd go through and count. 00:08:09.342 --> 00:08:12.192 And if they counted 48, 00:08:12.192 --> 00:08:15.331 we got us two stereos. 00:08:15.331 --> 00:08:16.860 Who can ever account for them? 00:08:16.860 --> 00:08:18.440 The paperwork says 46. 00:08:18.440 --> 00:08:20.222 And that kind of stuff would happen 00:08:20.222 --> 00:08:21.994 on a regular basis. 00:08:21.994 --> 00:08:24.783 Rick said they had lots of stuff. 00:08:24.783 --> 00:08:26.852 In fact, often when they're shipping, 00:08:26.852 --> 00:08:30.831 it seems like they overship. 00:08:30.831 --> 00:08:32.885 And so these guys, 00:08:32.885 --> 00:08:36.631 they skimmed off all the extra, 00:08:36.631 --> 00:08:38.652 all the time. 00:08:38.652 --> 00:08:42.273 Rick got saved. 00:08:42.273 --> 00:08:45.721 Now he wasn't being specifically asked to do it. 00:08:45.721 --> 00:08:49.792 But see, these are the kinds of things we have to ask. 00:08:49.792 --> 00:08:52.503 Is the job requiring me to sin? 00:08:52.503 --> 00:08:53.913 Is the nature of the job 00:08:53.913 --> 00:08:57.332 that I can't do this job without sinning 00:08:57.332 --> 00:09:00.529 because it's like an abortion doctor - 00:09:00.529 --> 00:09:02.433 you can't do the job without sinning. 00:09:02.433 --> 00:09:04.242 Obviously, that's a no-brainer. NOTE Paragraph 00:09:04.242 --> 00:09:07.151 But then you have to kind of look at: 00:09:07.151 --> 00:09:13.271 okay, is this a job that causes 00:09:13.271 --> 00:09:15.872 other people to sin? 00:09:15.872 --> 00:09:18.001 Now what are some examples of jobs 00:09:18.001 --> 00:09:19.893 that could cause other people to sin? 00:09:19.893 --> 00:09:21.079 Perhaps the bartender. 00:09:21.079 --> 00:09:25.172 Anybody got any others? 00:09:25.172 --> 00:09:27.603 I mean we've had a young lady 00:09:27.603 --> 00:09:30.003 in our own church that has wrestled 00:09:30.003 --> 00:09:31.642 with being a pharmacist 00:09:31.642 --> 00:09:36.332 because pharmacists are supposed to dispense 00:09:36.332 --> 00:09:42.362 abortive-type birth control 00:09:42.362 --> 00:09:44.803 and she won't do it. 00:09:44.803 --> 00:09:47.582 So there's something. 00:09:47.582 --> 00:09:49.464 You know one that's often a big one 00:09:49.464 --> 00:09:52.064 that people wrestle with is being a soldier 00:09:52.064 --> 00:09:54.185 or perhaps being a police officer. 00:09:54.185 --> 00:09:56.362 Or, could you imagine being on a SWAT team? 00:09:56.362 --> 00:09:57.883 Something like that. 00:09:57.883 --> 00:10:00.193 And these are areas where people 00:10:00.193 --> 00:10:03.603 have to wrestle. 00:10:03.603 --> 00:10:05.421 I mean, if you got saved 00:10:05.421 --> 00:10:09.773 and you were the janitor in a casino, 00:10:09.773 --> 00:10:12.554 could you keep going? 00:10:12.554 --> 00:10:14.613 I mean, is there anything about that 00:10:14.613 --> 00:10:19.403 that in and of itself - 00:10:19.403 --> 00:10:21.294 could you do it? 00:10:21.294 --> 00:10:26.014 Or how about if you're a biology teacher 00:10:26.014 --> 00:10:28.804 and they are absolutely expecting you 00:10:28.804 --> 00:10:30.465 to teach evolution 00:10:30.465 --> 00:10:33.203 and suddenly you get saved? 00:10:33.203 --> 00:10:36.476 Can you do it? 00:10:36.476 --> 00:10:40.599 See, these are the kind of questions. 00:10:40.599 --> 00:10:43.196 And another big one that comes up oftentimes 00:10:43.196 --> 00:10:45.451 is like David Gonzales. 00:10:45.451 --> 00:10:48.207 He told his work: 00:10:48.207 --> 00:10:50.087 Look, don't schedule me for Sundays. 00:10:50.087 --> 00:10:53.246 And whether you're a Sabbatarian or not 00:10:53.246 --> 00:10:55.207 there are Christians who say 00:10:55.207 --> 00:10:57.704 don't schedule me on Sundays. 00:10:57.704 --> 00:11:00.567 And some people are pretty adamant about it. 00:11:00.567 --> 00:11:04.826 Even when they interview. 00:11:04.826 --> 00:11:07.388 And then you get tested. 00:11:07.388 --> 00:11:10.338 They try to get you to work on Sunday. 00:11:10.338 --> 00:11:12.686 Whether it's a conviction or it's just that you 00:11:12.686 --> 00:11:13.647 want to be in church 00:11:13.647 --> 00:11:18.039 and you don't want to miss the meetings. 00:11:18.039 --> 00:11:19.846 So we have to ask ourselves this: 00:11:19.846 --> 00:11:23.435 Am I being required to sin all the time? 00:11:23.435 --> 00:11:25.077 Then I should leave. 00:11:25.077 --> 00:11:27.918 Am I not being required to sin all the time 00:11:27.918 --> 00:11:29.488 but perhaps by what I do, 00:11:29.488 --> 00:11:32.746 I encourage other people to sin? 00:11:32.746 --> 00:11:34.417 Can anybody think of a time 00:11:34.417 --> 00:11:36.547 when it would be okay to stay in a job 00:11:36.547 --> 00:11:40.148 that encourages other people to sin? NOTE Paragraph 00:11:40.148 --> 00:11:41.735 (from the room) 00:11:41.735 --> 00:11:45.297 I'm not exactly sure, but sometimes I struggle with this. 00:11:45.297 --> 00:11:46.595 We're Microsoft 00:11:46.595 --> 00:11:48.667 and some of the products we make 00:11:48.667 --> 00:11:51.357 are benign like Office, 00:11:51.357 --> 00:11:53.378 but also we make things like XBox, 00:11:53.378 --> 00:11:55.787 and some kids get addicted to this thing. 00:11:55.787 --> 00:11:58.186 And I know some really bad things have happened 00:11:58.186 --> 00:12:01.176 around the XBox and being addicted to games, 00:12:01.176 --> 00:12:04.116 so sometimes I feel kind of convicted 00:12:04.116 --> 00:12:08.457 and I support different servers that support XBox 00:12:08.457 --> 00:12:12.096 and all these different things of that nature. 00:12:12.096 --> 00:12:16.115 So sometimes I struggle with that a little bit. NOTE Paragraph 00:12:16.115 --> 00:12:17.656 Tim: It's understandable. 00:12:17.656 --> 00:12:20.386 Even Craig and I worked for a firm 00:12:20.386 --> 00:12:21.657 up in Michigan 00:12:21.657 --> 00:12:23.186 where we were basically dealing 00:12:23.186 --> 00:12:24.627 with spectator seating. 00:12:24.627 --> 00:12:27.376 Now, spectator seating you could say, 00:12:27.376 --> 00:12:28.966 yeah, could somebody go 00:12:28.966 --> 00:12:30.565 to Madison Square Garden 00:12:30.565 --> 00:12:32.688 and listen to a preacher preach? 00:12:32.688 --> 00:12:33.816 Well, they could. 00:12:33.816 --> 00:12:35.476 By and large, what are they doing? 00:12:35.476 --> 00:12:38.525 They're watching basketball games, they're watching hockey games, 00:12:38.525 --> 00:12:40.347 they're watching boxing matches. 00:12:40.347 --> 00:12:42.419 So is that bad? 00:12:42.419 --> 00:12:44.426 Well, it's like, here I'm throwing my life 00:12:44.426 --> 00:12:48.456 into designing these components 00:12:48.456 --> 00:12:51.967 for massive spectator facilities, 00:12:51.967 --> 00:12:56.398 and I wondered, is that the best thing 00:12:56.398 --> 00:13:00.577 to be throwing my life into? 00:13:00.577 --> 00:13:03.317 I was able to work. I was able to give from it. 00:13:03.317 --> 00:13:04.997 Is it possible that those things 00:13:04.997 --> 00:13:07.525 could be used for good purposes? 00:13:07.525 --> 00:13:09.347 Perhaps. 00:13:09.347 --> 00:13:13.115 Are people by and large wasting their lives away 00:13:13.115 --> 00:13:16.227 watching balls get put through hoops 00:13:16.227 --> 00:13:19.117 and pucks getting put in nets? 00:13:19.117 --> 00:13:24.609 On Judgment Day is it going to be worth anything? 00:13:24.609 --> 00:13:26.498 But I think we should conscientiously 00:13:26.498 --> 00:13:28.946 be exploring those things 00:13:28.946 --> 00:13:34.387 when it comes to our work. 00:13:34.387 --> 00:13:38.397 What happens is it's pretty often 00:13:38.397 --> 00:13:40.234 that we get faced with situations 00:13:40.234 --> 00:13:42.077 that test our convictions. 00:13:42.077 --> 00:13:43.356 Did you have your hand up? NOTE Paragraph 00:13:43.356 --> 00:13:44.096 (from the room) 00:13:44.096 --> 00:13:46.127 I was just thinking about Daniel 00:13:46.127 --> 00:13:48.437 working for Nebuchadnezzar 00:13:48.437 --> 00:13:51.396 and Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego. 00:13:51.396 --> 00:13:54.978 I don't know what exactly they were doing. NOTE Paragraph 00:13:54.978 --> 00:13:56.786 Tim: They were counselors. 00:13:56.786 --> 00:14:09.507 They were basically brought into the wise men that counseled. 00:14:09.507 --> 00:14:14.456 But God specifically told them to go there. 00:14:14.456 --> 00:14:19.197 Basically in their good, you'll have good. 00:14:19.197 --> 00:14:22.756 And go there, plant, live. 00:14:22.756 --> 00:14:28.457 Bless them. 00:14:28.457 --> 00:14:30.287 I think the thing we have to ask 00:14:30.287 --> 00:14:32.586 is is there any crime? Is there any sin? 00:14:32.586 --> 00:14:35.057 Is there any immorality? 00:14:35.057 --> 00:14:38.029 I mean, I think, is there any false teaching? 00:14:38.029 --> 00:14:40.847 Am I expected to proclaim lies 00:14:40.847 --> 00:14:44.117 if I'm a teacher of any sort? 00:14:44.117 --> 00:14:46.548 What are the expectations? NOTE Paragraph 00:14:46.548 --> 00:14:48.148 I can remember one time, 00:14:48.148 --> 00:14:56.008 we got the Madison Square Garden job. 00:14:56.008 --> 00:15:02.205 And this whole massive seating structure, 00:15:02.205 --> 00:15:04.317 the whole understructure - 00:15:04.317 --> 00:15:06.966 they didn't prime that properly. 00:15:06.966 --> 00:15:08.357 And they came in there 00:15:08.357 --> 00:15:10.177 and they sat that whole thing down. 00:15:10.177 --> 00:15:12.706 In most facilities it would not have been an issue. 00:15:12.706 --> 00:15:15.938 They set it down on the New York Rangers ice rink 00:15:15.938 --> 00:15:18.518 and all that moisture coming up, 00:15:18.518 --> 00:15:20.128 and it rusted the whole thing. 00:15:20.128 --> 00:15:22.286 And I remember sitting in a meeting 00:15:22.286 --> 00:15:25.265 in the firm I was in, a great big table, 00:15:25.265 --> 00:15:26.538 and all the engineers 00:15:26.538 --> 00:15:29.626 and all the big wigs from our company were in there 00:15:29.626 --> 00:15:31.856 because this was a major catastrophe. 00:15:31.856 --> 00:15:34.497 And I remember the vice- president of that company, 00:15:34.497 --> 00:15:38.505 he said: You (talking to all of us) - 00:15:38.505 --> 00:15:43.068 you will lie to them if they inquire 00:15:43.068 --> 00:15:46.005 or ask any questions about this. 00:15:46.005 --> 00:15:51.237 And I was there saying, uh-huh, 00:15:51.237 --> 00:15:54.408 I'm not going to lie. 00:15:54.408 --> 00:15:56.007 And I was thinking about it today 00:15:56.007 --> 00:15:58.838 as I was walking that I wasn't going to. 00:15:58.838 --> 00:16:03.609 And I did not challenge the vice-president right there. 00:16:03.609 --> 00:16:05.556 I wrote him. 00:16:05.556 --> 00:16:13.438 And I told him that his soul's in danger 00:16:13.438 --> 00:16:16.838 and he really needs to repent. 00:16:16.838 --> 00:16:20.686 But I wondered if I actually should have 00:16:20.686 --> 00:16:23.218 (incomplete thought). 00:16:23.218 --> 00:16:26.997 Because here's the thing, 00:16:26.997 --> 00:16:30.878 what are children of light called to do? 00:16:30.878 --> 00:16:34.806 I think this is an important point. 00:16:34.806 --> 00:16:36.247 What does Ephesians 5 say 00:16:36.247 --> 00:16:39.167 that children of light are supposed to do? 00:16:39.167 --> 00:16:42.189 Expose the works of darkness. 00:16:42.189 --> 00:16:43.718 And here's the thing, 00:16:43.718 --> 00:16:45.748 we want to be careful that we don't run 00:16:45.748 --> 00:16:48.147 from every situation out there. 00:16:48.147 --> 00:16:51.118 I think in a lot of situations, 00:16:51.118 --> 00:16:55.286 what we want to do is seek to be light. 00:16:55.286 --> 00:16:57.818 You know, my brother-in-law 00:16:57.818 --> 00:17:00.662 openly confronted the people. 00:17:00.662 --> 00:17:04.217 He sought to be light. 00:17:04.217 --> 00:17:06.665 (incomplete thought) 00:17:06.665 --> 00:17:09.498 We had a friend out at Community Baptist Church - 00:17:09.498 --> 00:17:11.337 he was a soldier. 00:17:11.337 --> 00:17:15.068 And this big auditorium full of people, 00:17:15.068 --> 00:17:18.427 and I think he said like a five-star general 00:17:18.427 --> 00:17:20.415 was up on the platform 00:17:20.415 --> 00:17:25.488 and he started by telling some crude joke. 00:17:25.488 --> 00:17:28.256 This brother from down there, 00:17:28.256 --> 00:17:32.047 he got up - he's a soldier - 00:17:32.047 --> 00:17:37.616 he got up and he was walking out down the aisle, 00:17:37.616 --> 00:17:40.927 and Mr. Five-star General called him out 00:17:40.927 --> 00:17:44.596 and said, son, where are you going? 00:17:44.596 --> 00:17:47.727 And in front of everybody, he said, 00:17:47.727 --> 00:17:51.326 Sir, I have the highest respect for you 00:17:51.326 --> 00:17:55.286 and I just think that this is inappropriate. 00:17:55.286 --> 00:17:56.656 And you know what? 00:17:56.656 --> 00:17:59.275 He stopped that story, 00:17:59.275 --> 00:18:01.535 and he said, son, sit down. 00:18:01.535 --> 00:18:02.967 And he didn't tell the story 00:18:02.967 --> 00:18:05.837 and he went right into his thing. 00:18:05.837 --> 00:18:13.467 And I was like, John, you did that? 00:18:13.467 --> 00:18:15.516 But you know what? That's good. 00:18:15.516 --> 00:18:17.970 That's being light. 00:18:17.970 --> 00:18:20.876 And we need that. 00:18:20.876 --> 00:18:22.346 The last thing we want to do 00:18:22.346 --> 00:18:24.715 is every difficult work situation, 00:18:24.715 --> 00:18:26.286 we extract the Christian. 00:18:26.286 --> 00:18:27.506 We don't want to do that. 00:18:27.506 --> 00:18:29.626 Now, you don't want to stay in a position 00:18:29.626 --> 00:18:32.005 where you're being required to sin, 00:18:32.005 --> 00:18:34.626 or where you're requiring somebody else to sin. 00:18:34.626 --> 00:18:35.816 But I think the thing is 00:18:35.816 --> 00:18:38.598 before we just abscond 00:18:38.598 --> 00:18:40.346 and run from situations, 00:18:40.346 --> 00:18:45.877 we should seek to stay, if possible, 00:18:45.877 --> 00:18:47.523 and never sin. 00:18:47.523 --> 00:18:50.818 That's one thing when you're thinking about this. 00:18:50.818 --> 00:18:55.057 Whatever situation you determine to remain in, 00:18:55.057 --> 00:18:56.987 you just have to take this stance: 00:18:56.987 --> 00:18:59.186 I am not going to sin. 00:18:59.186 --> 00:19:01.585 And there's a place 00:19:01.585 --> 00:19:04.216 that if you're being surrounded by sin, 00:19:04.216 --> 00:19:08.117 where the job doesn't necessitate sin, 00:19:08.117 --> 00:19:09.676 but you've got people around you 00:19:09.676 --> 00:19:11.985 that are being dishonest like at the car lot 00:19:11.985 --> 00:19:13.995 or in the shipping company, 00:19:13.995 --> 00:19:17.227 or even in the engineering firm I worked for 00:19:17.227 --> 00:19:19.280 where you've got people that are lying 00:19:19.280 --> 00:19:21.544 or their conduct isn't (right). 00:19:21.544 --> 00:19:23.984 Oh man, I remember one time 00:19:23.984 --> 00:19:30.437 Brother Craig, he went back to the tool room - 00:19:30.437 --> 00:19:33.764 this was when he worked in Seguin - 00:19:33.764 --> 00:19:35.675 he went to the tool room 00:19:35.675 --> 00:19:37.577 and he had to get something, 00:19:37.577 --> 00:19:41.735 and the man there that operated the tool room 00:19:41.735 --> 00:19:43.316 had a foul mouth, 00:19:43.316 --> 00:19:47.025 and he just went off and said something, 00:19:47.025 --> 00:19:50.775 and Craig called him out on it. 00:19:50.775 --> 00:19:58.716 And Craig said the guy just blew up. 00:19:58.716 --> 00:20:03.594 But again, I think that's what's critical. 00:20:03.594 --> 00:20:06.816 We're supposed to expose them. NOTE Paragraph 00:20:06.816 --> 00:20:10.606 So okay, it comes back to: 00:20:10.606 --> 00:20:18.648 You've got somebody working in a Catholic hospital. 00:20:18.648 --> 00:20:21.126 What do you think? 00:20:21.126 --> 00:20:22.639 I suspect this: 00:20:22.639 --> 00:20:24.897 I suspect that the average Christian, 00:20:24.897 --> 00:20:26.306 if it was a Lutheran hospital 00:20:26.306 --> 00:20:27.715 or a Methodist hospital 00:20:27.715 --> 00:20:30.086 wouldn't think as much about it 00:20:30.086 --> 00:20:32.565 as they do if it's a Catholic hospital. 00:20:32.565 --> 00:20:34.024 But I'll tell you this, 00:20:34.024 --> 00:20:37.604 the Catholics don't have the Gospel, 00:20:37.604 --> 00:20:40.098 but most Lutherans and most Methodists 00:20:40.098 --> 00:20:42.296 don't have it either. 00:20:42.296 --> 00:20:45.066 (Incomplete thought) 00:20:45.066 --> 00:20:50.985 And in fact, a lot of Baptists don't have it. 00:20:50.985 --> 00:20:52.736 And so, here's the thing, 00:20:52.736 --> 00:20:55.635 you're working for a Catholic hospital. 00:20:55.635 --> 00:20:57.836 And I would say this - she says, 00:20:57.836 --> 00:21:00.827 "a hospital that's focused on the Gospel and Christianity." 00:21:00.827 --> 00:21:02.826 I just put a question mark by that 00:21:02.826 --> 00:21:05.905 because I'm not certain 00:21:05.905 --> 00:21:10.556 exactly what that means. 00:21:10.556 --> 00:21:13.317 I'm not sure that Catholics are typically 00:21:13.317 --> 00:21:15.837 focusing on the Gospel or true Christianity, 00:21:15.837 --> 00:21:17.644 but she's working for a hospital 00:21:17.644 --> 00:21:19.368 in the marketing department. 00:21:19.368 --> 00:21:22.316 And I'm thinking she's probably not teaching. 00:21:22.316 --> 00:21:25.177 She's probably not being indoctrinated herself. 00:21:25.177 --> 00:21:27.416 She's probably not being put in a position 00:21:27.416 --> 00:21:31.387 where she's being expected to embrace 00:21:31.387 --> 00:21:33.196 Catholic doctrine 00:21:33.196 --> 00:21:34.926 or to propagate that doctrine. 00:21:34.926 --> 00:21:39.155 I'm thinking if you work for a hospital... NOTE Paragraph 00:21:39.155 --> 00:21:41.747 James: Well, she's a marketing person. 00:21:41.747 --> 00:21:45.057 She could be involved in publishing content. 00:21:45.057 --> 00:21:48.348 She mentions specifically, 00:21:48.348 --> 00:21:50.997 "they just pray to God or Jesus" - 00:21:50.997 --> 00:21:52.627 I guess her point was not to Mary. 00:21:52.627 --> 00:21:53.927 My question would be: 00:21:53.927 --> 00:21:56.278 are you sharing stuff on your Facebook? 00:21:56.278 --> 00:21:57.986 Or other places on the Internet 00:21:57.986 --> 00:22:01.166 that promotes Mary and Catholic dogma? NOTE Paragraph 00:22:01.166 --> 00:22:03.365 Tim: Yes, if you're in a marketing situation 00:22:03.365 --> 00:22:06.825 and you're having to compile literature, 00:22:06.825 --> 00:22:11.566 websites, any type of social media, 00:22:11.566 --> 00:22:15.247 any type of advertisement whatsoever 00:22:15.247 --> 00:22:19.027 where you are actually promoting 00:22:19.027 --> 00:22:22.517 the Catholic church or its teachings, 00:22:22.517 --> 00:22:25.126 I think you're dead wrong. 00:22:25.126 --> 00:22:28.537 Because look, when it comes 00:22:28.537 --> 00:22:30.356 to the actual teaching, 00:22:30.356 --> 00:22:35.518 we have this reality in 2 John. 00:22:35.518 --> 00:22:38.756 Do you know what it says about greeting people? 00:22:38.756 --> 00:22:41.227 (unintelligible) 00:22:41.227 --> 00:22:43.307 Well, the thing is if you've got somebody 00:22:43.307 --> 00:22:44.858 that's departed from the truth, 00:22:44.858 --> 00:22:49.016 John says don't even greet them. 00:22:49.016 --> 00:22:51.987 That's if somebody else is the one doing it, 00:22:51.987 --> 00:22:54.678 let alone if you're the one propagating it. 00:22:54.678 --> 00:22:57.357 No way should you ever be put in a situation 00:22:57.357 --> 00:22:59.926 where you're propagating error 00:22:59.926 --> 00:23:01.928 or teaching error. 00:23:01.928 --> 00:23:04.867 And if I'm that biology teacher 00:23:04.867 --> 00:23:06.437 (incomplete thought). 00:23:06.437 --> 00:23:08.378 See, I think there's always a place 00:23:08.378 --> 00:23:10.586 for the Christian to go to their higher-ups. 00:23:10.586 --> 00:23:12.077 Go to their supervisors, 00:23:12.077 --> 00:23:13.147 go to their foreman's, 00:23:13.147 --> 00:23:15.658 go to the boss - whoever that is - 00:23:15.658 --> 00:23:21.456 and say... I think there's a place for being honest. 00:23:21.456 --> 00:23:22.965 I'm a Christian. 00:23:22.965 --> 00:23:25.415 This is my conviction. 00:23:25.415 --> 00:23:28.827 I can't do that. 00:23:28.827 --> 00:23:30.149 I really like working here. 00:23:30.149 --> 00:23:31.757 I want to continue to work here, 00:23:31.757 --> 00:23:39.046 but I can't do that. 00:23:39.046 --> 00:23:40.846 And look, I can teach - 00:23:40.846 --> 00:23:42.796 perhaps somebody could say this - 00:23:42.796 --> 00:23:44.696 I can teach evolution, 00:23:44.696 --> 00:23:48.416 as long as you let me explain 00:23:48.416 --> 00:23:49.625 to the students 00:23:49.625 --> 00:23:54.006 that there are other thoughts and worldviews 00:23:54.006 --> 00:23:55.996 than that one, 00:23:55.996 --> 00:24:02.688 and if you allow me to indicate to the children 00:24:02.688 --> 00:24:04.506 that perhaps that's not the one 00:24:04.506 --> 00:24:06.157 that I think is correct. 00:24:06.157 --> 00:24:07.927 I think this one over here's correct. 00:24:07.927 --> 00:24:10.166 If you won't let me do that, 00:24:10.166 --> 00:24:15.237 then I probably can't teach science. 00:24:15.237 --> 00:24:18.317 Maybe I could teach math. 00:24:18.317 --> 00:24:20.419 But you let your convictions be known. 00:24:20.419 --> 00:24:22.286 I think that's critical 00:24:22.286 --> 00:24:23.898 for being salt and light. 00:24:23.898 --> 00:24:25.407 Wherever you work, 00:24:25.407 --> 00:24:26.856 they know who you are. 00:24:26.856 --> 00:24:28.299 They know what you are. 00:24:28.299 --> 00:24:30.665 They know something about your testimony. 00:24:30.665 --> 00:24:33.457 They know something about what you believe. 00:24:33.457 --> 00:24:37.765 And you're there confronting the darkness. 00:24:37.765 --> 00:24:40.659 Jesus said, "If you deny Me..." 00:24:40.659 --> 00:24:41.677 that He would deny. 00:24:41.677 --> 00:24:43.066 We don't want to deny Him. 00:24:43.066 --> 00:24:45.747 I think for the Christian to be able to work somewhere 00:24:45.747 --> 00:24:47.718 and nobody ever knows they're Christians, 00:24:47.718 --> 00:24:52.236 they're certainly not being light. 00:24:52.236 --> 00:24:54.788 So yes, a lot of this, 00:24:54.788 --> 00:24:56.717 as far as this Catholic hospital 00:24:56.717 --> 00:24:59.666 would depend on what she's being asked to do. 00:24:59.666 --> 00:25:03.636 The reality is if her primary responsibilities 00:25:03.636 --> 00:25:07.055 all wrap around people's healthcare, 00:25:07.055 --> 00:25:08.706 I mean, it's a hospital - 00:25:08.706 --> 00:25:11.037 if their primary driving reality 00:25:11.037 --> 00:25:13.786 of the majority of the people's jobs there 00:25:13.786 --> 00:25:16.696 has to do with people's health - 00:25:16.696 --> 00:25:17.786 getting people well, 00:25:17.786 --> 00:25:22.756 getting people healed - 00:25:22.756 --> 00:25:26.297 certainly, just because it says "Catholic," 00:25:26.297 --> 00:25:27.817 if a doctor told me, 00:25:27.817 --> 00:25:32.008 well, I went to work at Shriner's - 00:25:32.008 --> 00:25:35.486 I don't know, there might be better choices, 00:25:35.486 --> 00:25:38.147 but we all have to weigh these things out. 00:25:38.147 --> 00:25:39.507 And I think as a Christian, 00:25:39.507 --> 00:25:41.627 one of the things we have to weigh out 00:25:41.627 --> 00:25:46.277 is: look, I might be the only Christian in that place. 00:25:46.277 --> 00:25:49.065 So is the best thing for you to do is leave? 00:25:49.065 --> 00:25:51.308 We have to measure 00:25:51.308 --> 00:25:54.046 what does it say about our testimony. 00:25:54.046 --> 00:25:56.036 We have to weigh all these things out. 00:25:56.036 --> 00:25:57.887 It's kind of like the money situation. 00:25:57.887 --> 00:25:59.667 Is there an exact right answer? 00:25:59.667 --> 00:26:01.168 You know what? 00:26:01.168 --> 00:26:03.827 Whatsoever's not of faith is sin. 00:26:03.827 --> 00:26:05.447 We have to measure these things. 00:26:05.447 --> 00:26:07.137 We have to weigh these things out. 00:26:07.137 --> 00:26:08.950 And I would say this, 00:26:08.950 --> 00:26:10.747 there may be an environment 00:26:10.747 --> 00:26:12.256 that a weaker Christian says: 00:26:12.256 --> 00:26:13.677 I can't be here. 00:26:13.677 --> 00:26:16.287 Where a stronger Christian could say: 00:26:16.287 --> 00:26:18.738 Perhaps I can work here. 00:26:18.738 --> 00:26:20.615 Perhaps there's an individual that says 00:26:20.615 --> 00:26:22.787 at one point in time: I can work here; 00:26:22.787 --> 00:26:25.166 and then at a different point in time, he says, 00:26:25.166 --> 00:26:27.897 I no longer can. 00:26:27.897 --> 00:26:29.817 I don't think that's impossible 00:26:29.817 --> 00:26:31.635 for two Christians to be confronted 00:26:31.635 --> 00:26:32.666 by the same job, 00:26:32.666 --> 00:26:34.736 and one feels like with a clear conscience 00:26:34.736 --> 00:26:35.655 he can work there, 00:26:35.655 --> 00:26:37.365 and the other feels like with a clear conscience, 00:26:37.365 --> 00:26:38.608 they can't work there. 00:26:38.608 --> 00:26:41.032 I think that's what Romans 14 is all about. 00:26:41.032 --> 00:26:43.457 Some observe a day. Some don't observe a day. 00:26:43.457 --> 00:26:45.918 Some eat vegetables. Some eat meat. 00:26:45.918 --> 00:26:47.737 It's the kind of thing where 00:26:47.737 --> 00:26:49.617 we're trying to wrestle, 00:26:49.617 --> 00:26:54.716 we're trying to have our conscience 00:26:54.716 --> 00:26:56.719 constrained by the Word of God; 00:26:56.719 --> 00:26:58.926 constrained by the truth that we know. 00:26:58.926 --> 00:27:01.061 And we have to live up to that light, 00:27:01.061 --> 00:27:03.978 but I would say any one of us, 00:27:03.978 --> 00:27:04.898 if we're in a job, 00:27:04.898 --> 00:27:08.007 if we're in any kind of position, 00:27:08.007 --> 00:27:12.407 we need to be light. 00:27:12.407 --> 00:27:14.608 And we need to reprove the works of darkness. 00:27:14.608 --> 00:27:17.497 That's what we're called to do. 00:27:17.497 --> 00:27:20.737 You know, a holy life in itself 00:27:20.737 --> 00:27:22.659 will have a tendency to reprove, 00:27:22.659 --> 00:27:25.837 but I think the reproving is oftentimes 00:27:25.837 --> 00:27:32.665 necessary to be done by our mouths. 00:27:32.665 --> 00:27:34.327 And yeah, it can be uncomfortable 00:27:34.327 --> 00:27:35.766 and it can be confrontational. 00:27:35.766 --> 00:27:40.737 And at times, it can cost you your job. 00:27:40.737 --> 00:27:42.988 But that's okay. 00:27:42.988 --> 00:27:44.957 I mean, if you stand for what's right 00:27:44.957 --> 00:27:45.985 in some place 00:27:45.985 --> 00:27:48.926 and it ends up costing you the job, 00:27:48.926 --> 00:27:54.289 then that's okay. 00:27:54.289 --> 00:27:56.189 Those who want to be godly 00:27:56.189 --> 00:27:57.758 in this present world, 00:27:57.758 --> 00:28:00.927 they are going to face persecution. 00:28:00.927 --> 00:28:03.138 Look, the reality is 00:28:03.138 --> 00:28:04.666 take somebody like Jesus 00:28:04.666 --> 00:28:06.916 and throw Him into humanity, and what happens? 00:28:06.916 --> 00:28:08.687 They killed Him. 00:28:08.687 --> 00:28:10.117 And the more you're like Him 00:28:10.117 --> 00:28:13.566 and you throw you into that darkness out there, 00:28:13.566 --> 00:28:15.356 the more you are like Him, 00:28:15.356 --> 00:28:18.566 the more the world is going to sit up and take notice 00:28:18.566 --> 00:28:24.276 and often hate you. 00:28:24.276 --> 00:28:26.225 Anything more to say about that one? NOTE Paragraph 00:28:26.225 --> 00:28:28.686 (from the room/unintelligible) 00:28:28.686 --> 00:28:31.506 Like you mentioned early on, in Luke 3, 00:28:31.506 --> 00:28:33.706 these people had these jobs. 00:28:33.706 --> 00:28:36.491 The jobs weren't sinful in and of themselves. 00:28:36.491 --> 00:28:40.021 (unintelligible) NOTE Paragraph 00:28:40.021 --> 00:28:42.746 Tim: Yeah, what James is talking about is this: 00:28:42.746 --> 00:28:44.535 Do you remember when John the Baptist 00:28:44.535 --> 00:28:45.516 came on the scene? 00:28:45.516 --> 00:28:48.107 And it says specifically 00:28:48.107 --> 00:28:51.906 that the soldiers came to John 00:28:51.906 --> 00:28:54.607 and said "what must we do?" 00:28:54.607 --> 00:28:57.837 He was saying: bring forth works 00:28:57.837 --> 00:29:02.365 that are in line with your repentance. 00:29:02.365 --> 00:29:04.628 And the soldiers said what do we do? 00:29:04.628 --> 00:29:06.616 And it's very interesting that John 00:29:06.616 --> 00:29:08.807 did not say: all you soldiers 00:29:08.807 --> 00:29:10.908 need to stop being soldiers 00:29:10.908 --> 00:29:13.565 because there's no way 00:29:13.565 --> 00:29:16.405 for you to live righteously as a soldier. 00:29:16.405 --> 00:29:20.257 That's not what he said. 00:29:20.257 --> 00:29:22.666 Soldiers were big. Soldiers were strong. 00:29:22.666 --> 00:29:25.186 Soldiers were fighters. 00:29:25.186 --> 00:29:26.876 They were armed. 00:29:26.876 --> 00:29:30.198 Very easy for them to extort people. 00:29:30.198 --> 00:29:32.279 And he said don't do that. 00:29:32.279 --> 00:29:33.726 Really? 00:29:33.726 --> 00:29:35.288 Soldiers have to go to war. 00:29:35.288 --> 00:29:36.248 They have to fight. 00:29:36.248 --> 00:29:37.998 They often have to kill. 00:29:37.998 --> 00:29:42.217 How come you didn't address any of that? 00:29:42.217 --> 00:29:44.219 Well, you know what? 00:29:44.219 --> 00:29:50.108 Actually, Scripture says that God 00:29:50.108 --> 00:29:56.088 has given the sword to governments. 00:29:56.088 --> 00:29:58.196 That's God-ordained. 00:29:58.196 --> 00:30:00.527 Governments are God-ordained, 00:30:00.527 --> 00:30:02.748 and them bearing the sword 00:30:02.748 --> 00:30:06.168 is God-ordained. 00:30:06.168 --> 00:30:09.517 Personally, I would never tell anybody - 00:30:09.517 --> 00:30:11.007 any Christian - 00:30:11.007 --> 00:30:12.647 that being on a SWAT team, 00:30:12.647 --> 00:30:14.437 being in the military, 00:30:14.437 --> 00:30:18.895 being a police officer is sin. 00:30:18.895 --> 00:30:21.428 They need to sort that out before the Lord, 00:30:21.428 --> 00:30:26.268 but if a Christian decided before the Lord 00:30:26.268 --> 00:30:31.298 that he believed that was what God was calling him to, 00:30:31.298 --> 00:30:37.327 I could not say based on what Scripture teaches, 00:30:37.327 --> 00:30:42.156 I can't say that that dogmatically is sin. 00:30:42.156 --> 00:30:45.125 Now, if you take the position 00:30:45.125 --> 00:30:52.667 like what's that old Gary Cooper movie? 00:30:52.667 --> 00:30:53.917 Sergeant York. 00:30:53.917 --> 00:30:55.385 Remember Sergeant York? 00:30:55.385 --> 00:30:56.937 Anybody know about him? 00:30:56.937 --> 00:31:00.107 He was the most decorated war hero - 00:31:00.107 --> 00:31:04.241 U.S. war hero of World War 1. 00:31:04.241 --> 00:31:06.687 He was the real deal. 00:31:06.687 --> 00:31:08.376 He got saved shortly before 00:31:08.376 --> 00:31:10.366 World War 1 broke out. 00:31:10.366 --> 00:31:12.184 He was minded not to go. 00:31:12.184 --> 00:31:16.834 He believed God did not want him to kill. 00:31:16.834 --> 00:31:19.515 (Incomplete thought). 00:31:19.515 --> 00:31:22.807 He started out as a conscientious objector 00:31:22.807 --> 00:31:25.017 and he ended up going. 00:31:25.017 --> 00:31:27.601 And if you watch the movie 00:31:27.601 --> 00:31:29.565 and if the movie's true to real life, 00:31:29.565 --> 00:31:31.466 which I never actually read 00:31:31.466 --> 00:31:33.167 a Sergeant York biography, 00:31:33.167 --> 00:31:35.515 so I don't know how true the movie is 00:31:35.515 --> 00:31:36.585 to real life, 00:31:36.585 --> 00:31:39.417 but he says in the movie 00:31:39.417 --> 00:31:43.176 that he killed to save; 00:31:43.176 --> 00:31:46.097 that taking out the Germans that he took out 00:31:46.097 --> 00:31:49.666 actually ended up saving many, many 00:31:49.666 --> 00:31:52.197 of the allied soldiers. 00:31:52.197 --> 00:31:54.157 And he was the most decorated. 00:31:54.157 --> 00:31:55.916 He was a hero. 00:31:55.916 --> 00:32:03.036 He went up through all these machine gun nests. 00:32:03.036 --> 00:32:05.537 You know, if you're a conscientious objector 00:32:05.537 --> 00:32:08.145 and you choose not to do it, 00:32:08.145 --> 00:32:11.707 and you do so before the Lord? Amen. 00:32:11.707 --> 00:32:16.167 If you feel like you can go into battle, 00:32:16.167 --> 00:32:19.137 personally if I were to ask the question: 00:32:19.137 --> 00:32:21.786 does Scripture specifically forbid - 00:32:21.786 --> 00:32:28.137 if God gives the sword to the government, 00:32:28.137 --> 00:32:29.675 and you're a police officer 00:32:29.675 --> 00:32:34.649 and you're bearing that sword, 00:32:34.649 --> 00:32:38.927 does that seem to be consistent with Scripture? 00:32:38.927 --> 00:32:41.665 It does, but if you asked me, 00:32:41.665 --> 00:32:44.076 would Jesus take a gun and shoot somebody? 00:32:44.076 --> 00:32:46.976 I don't believe He would. 00:32:46.976 --> 00:32:53.168 (Incomplete thought) 00:32:53.168 --> 00:32:55.335 What does that mean? 00:32:55.335 --> 00:32:57.548 Does that mean that there are some things 00:32:57.548 --> 00:32:59.906 that are okay to do 00:32:59.906 --> 00:33:02.175 even if Jesus Himself wouldn't do them? 00:33:02.175 --> 00:33:05.917 I mean, these are the kind of things we have to wrestle with. 00:33:05.917 --> 00:33:11.476 Is it appropriate to put people to death? 00:33:11.476 --> 00:33:14.555 I mean, you have to ask that of Moses. 00:33:14.555 --> 00:33:16.718 Moses, what do you say? 00:33:16.718 --> 00:33:18.667 You went into the land of Canaan. 00:33:18.667 --> 00:33:22.959 Or, not Moses, but Joshua rather. 00:33:22.959 --> 00:33:25.196 Was it okay to kill? 00:33:25.196 --> 00:33:27.625 David, was it okay to kill? 00:33:27.625 --> 00:33:29.366 I mean, even commanded of God? 00:33:29.366 --> 00:33:32.116 Saul, did you lose your kingdom 00:33:32.116 --> 00:33:33.627 because you didn't kill 00:33:33.627 --> 00:33:36.656 when you were supposed to kill? 00:33:36.656 --> 00:33:38.506 I mean, is there a time in Scripture 00:33:38.506 --> 00:33:42.067 when killing was right? 00:33:42.067 --> 00:33:43.507 We'd have to say yes. 00:33:43.507 --> 00:33:45.036 Capital offense. 00:33:45.036 --> 00:33:46.645 If somebody committed murder, 00:33:46.645 --> 00:33:48.827 were they to be put to death? 00:33:48.827 --> 00:33:53.126 Yes. 00:33:53.126 --> 00:33:55.617 But would Jesus have killed? 00:33:55.617 --> 00:33:58.357 When they brought the woman 00:33:58.357 --> 00:34:00.398 taken in adultery, 00:34:00.398 --> 00:34:04.326 Moses did require her to be put to death. 00:34:04.326 --> 00:34:06.787 And He didn't do it. 00:34:06.787 --> 00:34:08.965 These are the things we have to wrestle with 00:34:08.965 --> 00:34:12.129 in some cases 00:34:12.129 --> 00:34:17.777 if you're thinking about those kinds of routes. 00:34:17.777 --> 00:34:23.707 Anything else on this subject? 00:34:23.707 --> 00:34:29.836 Well, that's probably enough for tonight. NOTE Paragraph 00:34:29.836 --> 00:34:38.427 Okay, let's pray. 00:34:38.427 --> 00:34:40.425 Oh Lord, we pray to be a people 00:34:40.425 --> 00:34:45.276 that are guided by truth. 00:34:45.276 --> 00:34:48.285 We want to be the children of light. 00:34:48.285 --> 00:34:54.647 You tell us to rebuke the works of darkness. 00:34:54.647 --> 00:34:56.277 Help us to be children of light. 00:34:56.277 --> 00:34:57.628 Help us to really shine. 00:34:57.628 --> 00:34:59.159 We read of John the Baptist - 00:34:59.159 --> 00:35:01.136 a burning and shining light. 00:35:01.136 --> 00:35:04.996 Lord, we want that to be true of ourselves. 00:35:04.996 --> 00:35:06.097 Help us, Lord. 00:35:06.097 --> 00:35:07.649 Give us the boldness. 00:35:07.649 --> 00:35:09.857 We want to be bold to proclaim Christ 00:35:09.857 --> 00:35:12.627 in even the hardest situations. 00:35:12.627 --> 00:35:14.496 We want to be faithful 00:35:14.496 --> 00:35:19.197 to go out into the darkness of this world and shine. 00:35:19.197 --> 00:35:21.257 I pray, Lord, light us. 00:35:21.257 --> 00:35:22.976 Light us up. 00:35:22.976 --> 00:35:25.047 We pray in Christ's name, Amen.