[Script Info]
Title: 
[Events]
Format: Layer, Start, End, Style, Name, MarginL, MarginR, MarginV, Effect, Text
Dialogue: 0,0:00:16.84,0:00:18.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,NOEL RAPPIN: Hey everybody.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:18.05,0:00:18.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think we'll get started.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:18.94,0:00:20.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We've got a lot of people on here who
Dialogue: 0,0:00:20.20,0:00:22.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,are all gonna wanna talk and we don't have
Dialogue: 0,0:00:22.26,0:00:25.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that much time. So, I'm gonna quickly introduce,
Dialogue: 0,0:00:25.61,0:00:27.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,this is, we're doing a panel here on teaching
Dialogue: 0,0:00:27.11,0:00:29.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the next great developers. I have a panel\Nof
Dialogue: 0,0:00:29.90,0:00:32.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,experts here. We'll let them briefly introduce
Dialogue: 0,0:00:32.01,0:00:34.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,themselves, and then we will get on with it.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:34.36,0:00:37.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, I'm Noel Rappin. I'm a Table XI senior
Dialogue: 0,0:00:37.90,0:00:40.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,developer, and to some extent I'll be representing\Ntraditional
Dialogue: 0,0:00:40.86,0:00:43.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,CS education, if that ever comes up at any
Dialogue: 0,0:00:43.08,0:00:46.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,point over the next forty minutes, which I'm\Nsure
Dialogue: 0,0:00:46.48,0:00:50.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,nobody would ever bash traditional CS education\Nin, in
Dialogue: 0,0:00:50.19,0:00:55.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,this forum. So, OK. First up, we got Jeff.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:55.35,0:00:56.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We also only have two microphones so you guys
Dialogue: 0,0:00:56.41,0:00:58.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,are gonna pass them around.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:58.98,0:01:00.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,JEFF CASIMIR: Hi. My name is Jeff Casimir.\NI
Dialogue: 0,0:01:00.80,0:01:03.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,run a company called JumpstartLab, and most\Nrecently started
Dialogue: 0,0:01:03.68,0:01:06.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,up a training program called Turing, Turing\NSchool of
Dialogue: 0,0:01:06.61,0:01:07.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Software and Design.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:07.38,0:01:09.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,N.R.: I put 'labs' up there. I got it
Dialogue: 0,0:01:09.68,0:01:10.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,wrong.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:10.90,0:01:11.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,J.C.: It's all right. I'll just call it Table
Dialogue: 0,0:01:12.04,0:01:12.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,X.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:14.04,0:01:16.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,BREE THOMAS: Hi. I'm Bree Thomas, and I'm\Na
Dialogue: 0,0:01:16.31,0:01:19.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,developer with a company named, called iTriage.\NAnd a
Dialogue: 0,0:01:19.90,0:01:23.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,recent grad of this guy's school.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:24.08,0:01:25.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,JEN MEYERS: Hi. My name is Jen Meyers, and
Dialogue: 0,0:01:25.95,0:01:27.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I am part of the team at Dev BootCamp
Dialogue: 0,0:01:27.79,0:01:29.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,here in Chicago.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:30.22,0:01:31.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,N.R.: Jen is filling in at the last minute
Dialogue: 0,0:01:31.79,0:01:33.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for Dave Hoover, who couldn't make it due\Nto
Dialogue: 0,0:01:33.65,0:01:35.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a family emergency.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:36.94,0:01:39.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,LIZ ABENANTE: I'm Liz Abenante. I am a developer
Dialogue: 0,0:01:39.39,0:01:42.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,at Instructure and I also co-lead the Girl\NDevelop
Dialogue: 0,0:01:42.51,0:01:45.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It chapter here in Chicago with this gal.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:46.10,0:01:49.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,KATHRIN EXLINE: Hi, my name is. Is. Just kidding.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:49.11,0:01:52.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Is it ready? My name is Katie Exline. You
Dialogue: 0,0:01:52.78,0:01:57.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,can call me Katie. I am the co-leader of
Dialogue: 0,0:01:57.51,0:02:00.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Girl Develop It, Chicago. Started in Girl\NDevelop It
Dialogue: 0,0:02:00.58,0:02:03.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with Girl Develop It, Columbus with that girl.\NAnd
Dialogue: 0,0:02:03.58,0:02:06.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'm currently a software engineer at a company\Ncalled
Dialogue: 0,0:02:06.77,0:02:07.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Fooda. 600 West.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:08.88,0:02:10.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,BEN ORENSTEIN: Hi. I'm Ben. I work at ThoughtBot
Dialogue: 0,0:02:10.83,0:02:13.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in Boston. I run our program for training\Ndevelopers
Dialogue: 0,0:02:13.42,0:02:15.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,there called Learn. And I write code and talk
Dialogue: 0,0:02:15.95,0:02:17.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to people and do things like this.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:17.75,0:02:21.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,N.R.: So, I'm gonna. So, I want to start
Dialogue: 0,0:02:21.41,0:02:23.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,this off by, so, we have a couple of
Dialogue: 0,0:02:23.65,0:02:27.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,different kinds of programs here represented.\NWe have two
Dialogue: 0,0:02:27.32,0:02:29.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,different boot camps that are sim- somewhat\Nsimilar in
Dialogue: 0,0:02:29.76,0:02:31.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,structure, but different in length. We have\Nthe Girl
Dialogue: 0,0:02:31.58,0:02:35.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Develop It, which is more shorter interventions\Naimed at
Dialogue: 0,0:02:35.02,0:02:37.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,bringing novices into the, into the field,\Nand we
Dialogue: 0,0:02:37.99,0:02:42.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,have online, online inter- somewhat more in-depth\Nonline interventions.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:42.73,0:02:45.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And, I guess, maybe, what I want to start
Dialogue: 0,0:02:45.17,0:02:49.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with is, what is, what do you think is
Dialogue: 0,0:02:49.07,0:02:53.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the most important part that you, in your\Nprogram,
Dialogue: 0,0:02:53.24,0:02:55.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,bring to teaching a novice developer, and\Nhow do
Dialogue: 0,0:02:55.35,0:02:59.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you think that that fits towards bringing\Nin the
Dialogue: 0,0:02:59.71,0:03:04.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,next generation of developers? To start with.\NAnybody can
Dialogue: 0,0:03:04.92,0:03:05.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,feel free. Jen's got the mic.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:05.24,0:03:05.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,J.M.: I've got the mic. OK. I'll go for
Dialogue: 0,0:03:05.34,0:03:05.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:05.76,0:03:08.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,N.R.: So what's the most, what's the most\Nimportant
Dialogue: 0,0:03:08.55,0:03:10.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,thing at Dev BootCamp. If, if you were to
Dialogue: 0,0:03:10.76,0:03:13.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,say that a Dev BootCamp boot came out of
Dialogue: 0,0:03:13.53,0:03:17.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,there knowing one or two things, like what,\Nwhat's
Dialogue: 0,0:03:17.16,0:03:19.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the most important thing that you try to impart?
Dialogue: 0,0:03:19.12,0:03:21.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,J.M.: Honestly, I think the most important\Nthing that
Dialogue: 0,0:03:21.06,0:03:23.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we try to foster is just being able to
Dialogue: 0,0:03:23.82,0:03:27.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,love and learning how to learn. And really\Nbeing
Dialogue: 0,0:03:27.63,0:03:30.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,able to carry themselves on and our, our goal
Dialogue: 0,0:03:30.88,0:03:34.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is to really produce people who know enough\Nabout
Dialogue: 0,0:03:34.93,0:03:36.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Ruby on Rails to get a job where they
Dialogue: 0,0:03:36.60,0:03:38.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,can continue to learn, and that they have\Nthe
Dialogue: 0,0:03:38.72,0:03:41.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,tools and the, the muscles built up, that\Nthey
Dialogue: 0,0:03:41.92,0:03:43.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,know how to keep learning on their own, and
Dialogue: 0,0:03:43.77,0:03:45.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,keep exploring and finding out new things.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:45.86,0:03:47.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, it's a little bit meta, but I really
Dialogue: 0,0:03:47.47,0:03:49.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,do feel like that's one of the things that
Dialogue: 0,0:03:49.19,0:03:50.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is our main goal, to make sure that people
Dialogue: 0,0:03:50.69,0:03:52.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,can continue learning for the rest of their\Ncareers
Dialogue: 0,0:03:52.51,0:03:53.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and lives.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:53.68,0:03:58.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,J.C.: Kind of a similar vein, I would say
Dialogue: 0,0:03:58.78,0:04:02.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the most important outcome for students is\Nunderstanding really
Dialogue: 0,0:04:02.53,0:04:06.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,how to take difficult technical problems and\Nturn them
Dialogue: 0,0:04:06.31,0:04:09.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,into sets of small, still difficult but more\Nmanageable
Dialogue: 0,0:04:09.53,0:04:12.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,technical problems. And we happen to do that\Nwith
Dialogue: 0,0:04:12.51,0:04:16.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Ruby on Rails, but I'm, it's really validating\Nwhen
Dialogue: 0,0:04:16.31,0:04:18.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we see students go into jobs where they do
Dialogue: 0,0:04:18.29,0:04:20.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,JavaScript full time, or iOS full time, and\Nthey're
Dialogue: 0,0:04:20.75,0:04:23.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,still able to apply all those same patterns\Nto
Dialogue: 0,0:04:23.71,0:04:26.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a different language and framework and so\Nforth.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:26.36,0:04:28.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,L.A.: And Girl Develop It comes from a slightly
Dialogue: 0,0:04:28.17,0:04:31.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,different perspective, because we work with\Ncomplete novices in
Dialogue: 0,0:04:31.07,0:04:32.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a wide range of classes, and we're just now
Dialogue: 0,0:04:32.95,0:04:35.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,starting to get into programming here in Chicago\Nwith
Dialogue: 0,0:04:35.35,0:04:37.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,our gals. But, I think the most important\Nthing
Dialogue: 0,0:04:37.97,0:04:40.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that I've found teaching these students is\Nhow to
Dialogue: 0,0:04:40.89,0:04:42.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,ask questions and where to ask them. Who to
Dialogue: 0,0:04:42.96,0:04:45.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,ask, what kind of responses are good responses,\Nand
Dialogue: 0,0:04:45.64,0:04:47.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,what kind of responses are terrible and you\Nshould
Dialogue: 0,0:04:47.38,0:04:50.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,ignore them because they're from terrible\Npeople.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:50.62,0:04:55.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,B.O.: So, this is actually something that\NI think
Dialogue: 0,0:04:55.44,0:04:58.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that it's important for all levels that I'm\Nworking
Dialogue: 0,0:04:58.11,0:05:01.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on myself, honestly, is a willingness to admit\Nyou
Dialogue: 0,0:05:01.29,0:05:04.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,don't understand something. There's, I, there's\Nthis phenomenon I've
Dialogue: 0,0:05:04.03,0:05:06.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,seen in developing, in particular, where,\Nbecause it's an
Dialogue: 0,0:05:06.34,0:05:09.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,intellectual-based activity, we have this\Nreally strong impulse to
Dialogue: 0,0:05:09.96,0:05:11.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,always act like we know what's going on and
Dialogue: 0,0:05:11.67,0:05:13.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we understand what people are saying.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:13.40,0:05:15.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I've tried really hard to develop in myself
Dialogue: 0,0:05:15.64,0:05:17.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the ability to be like, I did not follow
Dialogue: 0,0:05:17.12,0:05:19.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that. I don't understand what's going on.\NAnd I
Dialogue: 0,0:05:19.21,0:05:21.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,think more of that is really good for the
Dialogue: 0,0:05:21.54,0:05:23.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,world. I think, I've seen people, I've seen\Nmyself
Dialogue: 0,0:05:23.98,0:05:25.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,do it, too, where you sort of fake it.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:25.67,0:05:27.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Where it's like, oh, are you familiar with\Nthis?
Dialogue: 0,0:05:27.22,0:05:29.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Yeah. I mean, I know I should be, so
Dialogue: 0,0:05:29.15,0:05:33.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,therefore I'm gonna say yes. And that definitely,\Nthat
Dialogue: 0,0:05:33.09,0:05:34.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,hurts you. Like, you cheat yourself out of\Nthat
Dialogue: 0,0:05:34.68,0:05:37.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,immediate learning, and you cheat, you know,\Nyour, your
Dialogue: 0,0:05:37.18,0:05:38.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,colleague or the person you're talking to\Nout of
Dialogue: 0,0:05:38.61,0:05:39.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,being able to trust you when they find out
Dialogue: 0,0:05:39.79,0:05:41.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you weren't telling the truth. And there's\Njust all
Dialogue: 0,0:05:41.58,0:05:43.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,this negative impacts from that.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:43.73,0:05:48.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,N.R.: So, actually. Let's. I have a, I have
Dialogue: 0,0:05:48.29,0:05:49.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a sort of jumble. Do you guys have questions
Dialogue: 0,0:05:49.90,0:05:51.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in the audience? Like, I have a couple of
Dialogue: 0,0:05:51.86,0:05:54.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,prepared questions that are gonna be kind\Nof vague,
Dialogue: 0,0:05:54.22,0:05:56.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but if you guys have questions in the audience,
Dialogue: 0,0:05:56.03,0:06:00.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,yes, no, maybe? Then we, this would be, this
Dialogue: 0,0:06:00.55,0:06:02.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,would be, I think, more fruitful if you guys
Dialogue: 0,0:06:02.72,0:06:05.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,com- if we come from there.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:05.48,0:06:10.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AUDIENCE: I think everyone thinks they're\Nterrible at programming
Dialogue: 0,0:06:10.05,0:06:11.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,when they start, so how do you help people
Dialogue: 0,0:06:11.67,0:06:12.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,N.R.: So the question is, how do you help
Dialogue: 0,0:06:12.64,0:06:15.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,people build confidence, given that everybody\Nthinks they're terrible
Dialogue: 0,0:06:15.05,0:06:17.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,when they start, or possibly for several years\Nafter
Dialogue: 0,0:06:17.68,0:06:19.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they've started?
Dialogue: 0,0:06:19.49,0:06:23.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,B.O.: I love that question. Did, you repeated\Nit,
Dialogue: 0,0:06:23.22,0:06:23.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,right? Yeah.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:23.67,0:06:24.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,N.R.: Yes.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:24.11,0:06:26.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,B.O.: Because I still struggle with believing\Nthat I
Dialogue: 0,0:06:26.67,0:06:28.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,am a good programmer, and I think this happens
Dialogue: 0,0:06:28.54,0:06:31.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to everybody, is, there's this impostor syndrome,\Nand I
Dialogue: 0,0:06:31.06,0:06:31.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,think everybody has. Wow.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:31.79,0:06:33.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,N.R.: Sorry. I'm just going back in the slides.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:33.52,0:06:39.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,B.O.: There we go. That's OK. Shwoo. It still
Dialogue: 0,0:06:39.17,0:06:41.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,kind of blows my mind when people think nice
Dialogue: 0,0:06:41.31,0:06:43.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,things about me. And I think that impostor\Nsyndrome
Dialogue: 0,0:06:43.55,0:06:45.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is, like, is very prevalent. And, again, we're\Nin
Dialogue: 0,0:06:45.62,0:06:50.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a intellectual based field, again, so I try\Nto
Dialogue: 0,0:06:50.55,0:06:53.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,be, like, humility, I think, is my answer\Nto
Dialogue: 0,0:06:53.09,0:06:55.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that. Like, I try to be humble myself, because
Dialogue: 0,0:06:55.23,0:06:57.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I've had those own feelings of impostor syndrome,\Nof
Dialogue: 0,0:06:57.71,0:06:59.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,like, not even believing that I know what\NI'm
Dialogue: 0,0:06:59.18,0:07:01.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,doing. And so, I know that's just amplified\Na
Dialogue: 0,0:07:01.24,0:07:03.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,thousand fold when you're brand new and everything's\Nsuper
Dialogue: 0,0:07:03.54,0:07:06.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,confusing. So when I've done stuff, particularly\Nwith like,
Dialogue: 0,0:07:06.06,0:07:09.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,really new people, like a RailsBridge type\Nworkshop, I
Dialogue: 0,0:07:09.35,0:07:11.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,like to like, open by saying, like. Don't\Nworry.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:11.76,0:07:14.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The state of being confused and like, this\Nshould
Dialogue: 0,0:07:14.83,0:07:17.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,work but it doesn't work. That is the normal
Dialogue: 0,0:07:17.18,0:07:19.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,state of the working programmer.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:19.66,0:07:21.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That's like, how it is. And so, it's not
Dialogue: 0,0:07:21.46,0:07:23.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you. It's never you. It's that this is hard
Dialogue: 0,0:07:23.94,0:07:25.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and it's always gonna be like that. So, hopefully
Dialogue: 0,0:07:25.55,0:07:27.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you like it.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:27.15,0:07:31.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,R.N.: Despair is what we teach. Long term\Ndespair.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:31.39,0:07:34.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,J.M.: Yeah, I was gonna, to back-track a little
Dialogue: 0,0:07:34.36,0:07:36.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,bit on what you were saying, you know, we,
Dialogue: 0,0:07:36.78,0:07:38.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as Liz mentioned, we deal with a lot of
Dialogue: 0,0:07:38.18,0:07:40.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,people who are just starting out. So, actually,\Na
Dialogue: 0,0:07:40.23,0:07:44.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,lot of them aren't, they're not faking it,\Nand
Dialogue: 0,0:07:44.57,0:07:47.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,what we're working with, they think they're\Ntotally incapable
Dialogue: 0,0:07:47.24,0:07:48.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of learning it. You know, on the, on the
Dialogue: 0,0:07:48.92,0:07:52.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,reverse side. So, there's a few things that\Nwe
Dialogue: 0,0:07:52.19,0:07:53.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,do in order to make sure that they feel
Dialogue: 0,0:07:53.93,0:07:58.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,comfortable is, for one, we make sure to encourage
Dialogue: 0,0:07:58.32,0:08:01.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,them to ask questions and do not scoff when
Dialogue: 0,0:08:01.37,0:08:04.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they ask any sort of question, because then\Nwe're
Dialogue: 0,0:08:04.97,0:08:07.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,validating them and saying, that is a totally\Nvalid
Dialogue: 0,0:08:07.89,0:08:10.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,question, and it's OK if you don't know that.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:10.07,0:08:11.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And we may not even have the answer. So,
Dialogue: 0,0:08:11.89,0:08:14.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that type of, like, open discussion, being\Nable to
Dialogue: 0,0:08:14.00,0:08:15.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,ask questions is great.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:15.61,0:08:18.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And then also, just providing positive feedback.\NActually, constructive
Dialogue: 0,0:08:18.73,0:08:22.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,feedback. Both positive and even if it's constructive,\Nproviding
Dialogue: 0,0:08:22.65,0:08:24.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it in a positive way, I think really helps
Dialogue: 0,0:08:24.69,0:08:25.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,build peoples' confidence.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:25.71,0:08:29.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,J.C.: Smart. Cause that's what I was thinking.\NGiving
Dialogue: 0,0:08:29.55,0:08:31.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a set up where you can give somebody a
Dialogue: 0,0:08:31.33,0:08:34.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,small, a small, quick win, that they've done\Nsomething
Dialogue: 0,0:08:34.20,0:08:36.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that they could point to, I think is helpful
Dialogue: 0,0:08:36.30,0:08:38.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in my experience as a teacher.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:38.34,0:08:40.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,B.T.: So I'll just add to that. As one
Dialogue: 0,0:08:40.78,0:08:43.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who spent six months in a course, I wasn't
Dialogue: 0,0:08:43.78,0:08:46.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,getting it at all, for like, the first three
Dialogue: 0,0:08:46.88,0:08:50.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,months. And it was brutal. And I consider\Nmyself
Dialogue: 0,0:08:50.52,0:08:53.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,someone who's actually, I never had any question\Nabout
Dialogue: 0,0:08:53.83,0:08:58.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,my ability to learn something new. And so,\NI
Dialogue: 0,0:08:58.59,0:09:01.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,think, I think in terms of what's important,\Nfrom
Dialogue: 0,0:09:01.39,0:09:04.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a student perspective, when you're, when you're\Nin a
Dialogue: 0,0:09:04.07,0:09:10.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,course, is having instructors in an environment\Nwhere they
Dialogue: 0,0:09:10.02,0:09:13.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,can adapt to your learning style, so they\Ncan
Dialogue: 0,0:09:13.57,0:09:15.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,understand, they can look at you and they\Ncan
Dialogue: 0,0:09:15.01,0:09:17.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,understand, OK, here's where you're having\Nproblems.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:17.35,0:09:20.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And, change course if that's what's required.\NBecause I
Dialogue: 0,0:09:20.30,0:09:21.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,can say that that was my experience. I kind
Dialogue: 0,0:09:21.96,0:09:24.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of went, oh my gosh. I still have no
Dialogue: 0,0:09:24.08,0:09:25.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,idea what's going on and we're halfway through\Nthe
Dialogue: 0,0:09:25.90,0:09:28.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,course and it's not clicking. And I kept getting
Dialogue: 0,0:09:28.59,0:09:30.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the, it's gonna be OK. It's gonna be OK.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:30.52,0:09:33.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,No. It's not OK. I'm half way through, and
Dialogue: 0,0:09:33.12,0:09:34.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I spent all this money and there's only three
Dialogue: 0,0:09:34.83,0:09:39.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,months left. And essentially, the instructors,\Nyou know, at
Dialogue: 0,0:09:39.24,0:09:42.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,least with, with Jeff's group, they took a\Nstep
Dialogue: 0,0:09:42.83,0:09:45.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,back and said, OK, let's focus on the fundamentals.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:45.32,0:09:48.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And, let's do some smaller steps, and let's\Ndo
Dialogue: 0,0:09:48.27,0:09:51.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that work with you, and that was extraordinarily\Nhelpful
Dialogue: 0,0:09:51.48,0:09:55.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for me. And, by the time I graduated, I
Dialogue: 0,0:09:55.35,0:09:58.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,can honestly say I finally felt like, oh,\NI'm
Dialogue: 0,0:09:58.56,0:10:00.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a developer now. I may not be, you know,
Dialogue: 0,0:10:00.87,0:10:03.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a great one, but I like, feel comfortable\Ncalling
Dialogue: 0,0:10:03.90,0:10:05.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,myself a developer now.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:05.53,0:10:07.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,L.A.: And in terms of not seeing yourself\Nas
Dialogue: 0,0:10:07.79,0:10:10.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,terrible, you're not terrible if you do one\Nthing
Dialogue: 0,0:10:10.25,0:10:14.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,right. Like, in programming. If you get that\Nimage
Dialogue: 0,0:10:14.19,0:10:17.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to render on your ht- your very first html
Dialogue: 0,0:10:17.19,0:10:20.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,page, but you cannot figure out freaking CSS\Nfor
Dialogue: 0,0:10:20.49,0:10:22.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the life of you, it doesn't matter because\Nyou
Dialogue: 0,0:10:22.87,0:10:25.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,got that one thing, that tiny victory, reinforcing\Nthose
Dialogue: 0,0:10:25.96,0:10:29.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,tiny victories, celebrating those tiny victories,\Nand using those
Dialogue: 0,0:10:29.24,0:10:32.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as moments to break away from the frustrations\Nreally
Dialogue: 0,0:10:32.58,0:10:34.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,helps break students out of that pattern of,\NI'm
Dialogue: 0,0:10:34.80,0:10:37.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,terrible. I don't get this. It's really hard.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:37.09,0:10:41.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,J.C.: I think the, the whole conversation\Naround, like,
Dialogue: 0,0:10:41.98,0:10:44.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,impostor syndrome, I found really interesting.\NI kind of
Dialogue: 0,0:10:44.67,0:10:47.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,want to ban that phrase. Like, I will probably
Dialogue: 0,0:10:47.39,0:10:50.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,stop saying it, because I, I think it's just
Dialogue: 0,0:10:50.13,0:10:53.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a part of programming. Thinking, or perhaps\Nknowing that
Dialogue: 0,0:10:53.89,0:10:56.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you're not good at programmer. And, for me,\Nwhen
Dialogue: 0,0:10:56.51,0:10:59.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I first started, our first program as Hungry\NAcademy
Dialogue: 0,0:10:59.37,0:11:01.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in D.C., and I, when I laid out the
Dialogue: 0,0:11:01.23,0:11:03.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,course plan, there were pieces in there that\NI
Dialogue: 0,0:11:03.62,0:11:05.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,did not know how to do and had never
Dialogue: 0,0:11:05.14,0:11:07.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,done in a project. And I was so nervous
Dialogue: 0,0:11:07.41,0:11:08.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I was like, oh, we're gonna. I'm gonna
Dialogue: 0,0:11:08.90,0:11:09.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,be exposed.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:09.77,0:11:12.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Right? But I had this co-teacher and I was
Dialogue: 0,0:11:12.01,0:11:14.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,like, he'll know. He's a real consultant and,\Nlike,
Dialogue: 0,0:11:14.45,0:11:16.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,he knows how to do these things. It'll be
Dialogue: 0,0:11:16.68,0:11:18.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,OK. And, I think what's happened to me over
Dialogue: 0,0:11:18.91,0:11:21.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that time is just realizing that, like, I\Ndon't
Dialogue: 0,0:11:21.72,0:11:24.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,give a shit. Like, if I'm not the best
Dialogue: 0,0:11:24.16,0:11:26.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,programmer - I'm sure Ben's a much better\Nprogrammer
Dialogue: 0,0:11:26.59,0:11:30.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,than I. So what? Like, it, it, it, probably,
Dialogue: 0,0:11:30.90,0:11:33.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you know. And so, I'm fortunate, you know,\Nthrough
Dialogue: 0,0:11:33.14,0:11:35.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,things like RailsConf to talk with amazing\Npeople and
Dialogue: 0,0:11:35.61,0:11:38.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,people are like, oh, you know, Jose Valim,\Nlike,
Dialogue: 0,0:11:38.10,0:11:40.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,building Elixir. Poof. Like, no idea. I can't\Neven
Dialogue: 0,0:11:40.67,0:11:42.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,understand Elixir, much less how to build\Nit.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:42.98,0:11:44.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And, he's a much better developer, or, much\Nbetter
Dialogue: 0,0:11:44.88,0:11:48.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,programmer than I am. But, who cares? Is really,
Dialogue: 0,0:11:48.98,0:11:51.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think, something that's valuable to your\Ncareer.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:51.40,0:11:52.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,N.R.: One thing I feel- sorry.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:52.47,0:11:54.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,J.C.: Like, you're not, you're not measured\Non some,
Dialogue: 0,0:11:54.05,0:11:56.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,like, benchmark against other, there's no\Nlike, programming test,
Dialogue: 0,0:11:56.87,0:11:58.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,like, program this thing in thirty-seven minutes.\NIt's like,
Dialogue: 0,0:11:58.88,0:12:00.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,oh, Jen can do it in thirty-six minutes. She's
Dialogue: 0,0:12:00.55,0:12:02.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,smarter than you. Like, it, it doesn't matter\Nto
Dialogue: 0,0:12:02.69,0:12:03.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,me.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:03.04,0:12:05.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,N.R.: I did it in thirty-five, but.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:05.49,0:12:08.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,J.C.: It's that CD degree. You can do it
Dialogue: 0,0:12:08.64,0:12:09.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in one minute.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:09.00,0:12:09.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,N.R.: I, one thing that I think is really
Dialogue: 0,0:12:09.81,0:12:13.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,important, is try to keep- I saw. Is to
Dialogue: 0,0:12:13.51,0:12:17.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,try to keep novices from comparing themselves\Nagainst, like,
Dialogue: 0,0:12:17.30,0:12:19.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the quote on quote heroes. Like, it's really\Neasy
Dialogue: 0,0:12:19.41,0:12:23.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for somebody to say, like, oh, I see Steve
Dialogue: 0,0:12:23.10,0:12:25.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Clapnick submit, you know, I see these people\Nwho
Dialogue: 0,0:12:25.13,0:12:26.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,submit to open source all day long, and a
Dialogue: 0,0:12:26.70,0:12:28.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,lot of the people who do that, that's actually
Dialogue: 0,0:12:28.20,0:12:30.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,one way or another their job. And to compare
Dialogue: 0,0:12:30.82,0:12:34.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,their output, their very public, very voluminous\Noutput to
Dialogue: 0,0:12:34.96,0:12:37.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,yours, when it's not really your job to do
Dialogue: 0,0:12:37.45,0:12:40.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that, is unfair to yourself, and a little\Nbit
Dialogue: 0,0:12:40.20,0:12:42.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,unfair to them. But mostly unfair to yourself.\NAnd
Dialogue: 0,0:12:42.14,0:12:45.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to try, I've seen, like, novice developers\Nget kind
Dialogue: 0,0:12:45.82,0:12:48.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of locked in that, that idea that they're\Nnot
Dialogue: 0,0:12:48.31,0:12:51.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,doing everything they could be doing. And\Nthat's dangerous
Dialogue: 0,0:12:51.67,0:12:54.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for them. Like, you want them to be celebrating
Dialogue: 0,0:12:54.48,0:12:56.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the victories that they are doing and not\Ncomparing
Dialogue: 0,0:12:56.44,0:12:59.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,themselves with the things that they're not.\NSorry, what's?
Dialogue: 0,0:12:59.10,0:13:02.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AUDIENCE: Yes. So, what that brings to mind,\Nfor
Dialogue: 0,0:13:02.50,0:13:05.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,me, is [indecipherable - 00:13:04], one of\Nthe concerns
Dialogue: 0,0:13:05.52,0:13:08.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that was brought up was this idea that we
Dialogue: 0,0:13:08.91,0:13:12.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,were missing a lot of developers who are perhaps
Dialogue: 0,0:13:12.31,0:13:15.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,gonna even do some harm in their first, you
Dialogue: 0,0:13:15.70,0:13:17.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,know, first few gigs, perhaps.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:17.59,0:13:19.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,N.R.: All of us do a lot of harm
Dialogue: 0,0:13:19.10,0:13:25.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in our first few gigs, right. Like. Yes.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:25.50,0:13:31.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AUDIENCE: So this question's for all of you.\NI
Dialogue: 0,0:13:31.66,0:13:32.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,wonder if, if teaching the next 'great' developers\Nis
Dialogue: 0,0:13:32.30,0:13:32.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,even the right question to be asking. And\Nif
Dialogue: 0,0:13:32.63,0:13:33.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,N.R.: So, OK. So, the question is whether\Nteaching
Dialogue: 0,0:13:33.48,0:13:35.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the next great developers is the right question,\Nand
Dialogue: 0,0:13:35.21,0:13:38.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,if so what is? Great developers was my fault.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:38.00,0:13:40.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Don't blame them for calling this great developers.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:40.30,0:13:41.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,J.C.: That's link bait.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:41.54,0:13:42.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,N.R.: Yeah.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:42.61,0:13:43.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,B.O.: And you're here.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:43.68,0:13:46.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,N.R.: If I had only said, if I had
Dialogue: 0,0:13:46.45,0:13:48.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,only said good developers, half of you would\Nbe
Dialogue: 0,0:13:48.56,0:13:50.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,off learning- teaching the next half-assed\Ndevelopers.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:50.86,0:13:54.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,J.C.: Yeah. I, I think one of the privileges
Dialogue: 0,0:13:54.45,0:13:58.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of working with these programs and people\Nthat come
Dialogue: 0,0:13:58.17,0:14:01.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,into our program and, and programs like all\Nthese
Dialogue: 0,0:14:01.19,0:14:04.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,people participate in is that they might not\Nbe
Dialogue: 0,0:14:04.75,0:14:08.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,great developers. And, like, Bree wants to\Nbe a
Dialogue: 0,0:14:08.35,0:14:10.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,full-time developer. In ten years, will Bree\Nbe a
Dialogue: 0,0:14:10.95,0:14:13.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,full time developer? I'm not so sure. But\Nwill
Dialogue: 0,0:14:13.07,0:14:16.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,she be doing something amazing in technology,\Nand like
Dialogue: 0,0:14:16.07,0:14:18.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,probably be running a company? Will I be working
Dialogue: 0,0:14:18.02,0:14:20.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for her? Like, above zero change, you know.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:20.72,0:14:25.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Like, and so the people that, mostly, I guess
Dialogue: 0,0:14:25.15,0:14:26.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,one of the things that surprises people about\Nour
Dialogue: 0,0:14:26.54,0:14:28.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,program, and I think it's probably similar\Nfor Dev
Dialogue: 0,0:14:28.35,0:14:31.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,BootCamp, is most of our students are career\Nchangers.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:31.83,0:14:34.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's not their first career. And so they've\Ngot
Dialogue: 0,0:14:34.19,0:14:36.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,these years of experience about how to be\Na
Dialogue: 0,0:14:36.15,0:14:38.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,professional. They've got years of experience\Nin some domain,
Dialogue: 0,0:14:38.87,0:14:42.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,whether it's finance or health or restaurants\Nor whatever
Dialogue: 0,0:14:42.30,0:14:46.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it is. And that experience is gonna be amazing
Dialogue: 0,0:14:46.42,0:14:49.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for what they do next, after their first couple
Dialogue: 0,0:14:49.01,0:14:49.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,jobs, right.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:49.81,0:14:51.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Noel and I, we have these CS degrees. We're
Dialogue: 0,0:14:51.99,0:14:53.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,like, one day gonna get thrown out of a
Dialogue: 0,0:14:53.19,0:14:56.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Ruby Conference. Like, marked and thrown out.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:56.88,0:14:57.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,N.R.: Re-education.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:57.90,0:15:00.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,J.C.: But those people, I'm excited to see,\Nlike,
Dialogue: 0,0:15:00.18,0:15:02.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,yes, they're gonna really mess up some projects\Nin
Dialogue: 0,0:15:02.35,0:15:04.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the short term. But what they do when they
Dialogue: 0,0:15:04.25,0:15:06.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,get to the point of leading teams and starting
Dialogue: 0,0:15:06.44,0:15:08.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,companies I think is, well, it's gonna be\Nreally
Dialogue: 0,0:15:08.00,0:15:08.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,cool.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:08.34,0:15:10.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,J.M.: Yeah. I think that the question really\Nis,
Dialogue: 0,0:15:10.86,0:15:13.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,what does great mean? And my, my definition\Nof
Dialogue: 0,0:15:13.69,0:15:15.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it is similar to what Jeff is describing,\Nis
Dialogue: 0,0:15:15.76,0:15:18.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that people who bring a really great diversity\Nof
Dialogue: 0,0:15:18.65,0:15:22.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,experience and backgrounds and to, to kind\Nof enrich
Dialogue: 0,0:15:22.09,0:15:25.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the products that we're making. That's exciting.\NAnd he's
Dialogue: 0,0:15:25.35,0:15:26.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,right. In Dev BootCamp, we do have a lot
Dialogue: 0,0:15:26.70,0:15:29.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of people who have really unique backgrounds,\Nand have
Dialogue: 0,0:15:29.92,0:15:32.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,some really cool perspectives that they bring\Ninto things,
Dialogue: 0,0:15:32.67,0:15:35.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and are just, like, great people.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:35.61,0:15:37.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And those are people you want to work with
Dialogue: 0,0:15:37.18,0:15:40.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on teams, and they, you know, they just help
Dialogue: 0,0:15:40.01,0:15:42.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you make better things together. So that,\NI'd like
Dialogue: 0,0:15:42.49,0:15:45.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to have that definition of great, and kind\Nof
Dialogue: 0,0:15:45.70,0:15:47.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,tease out the, the potential in those people\Nwho
Dialogue: 0,0:15:47.87,0:15:49.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,have other things that they can bring to it,
Dialogue: 0,0:15:49.96,0:15:52.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and help them contribute that for making the\Ndevelopers
Dialogue: 0,0:15:52.63,0:15:52.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they are.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:52.94,0:15:55.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,B.O.: I really like both those answers, because\NI
Dialogue: 0,0:15:55.25,0:15:57.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,think one of the, the best things about programming
Dialogue: 0,0:15:57.07,0:15:59.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is that it's an awesome force multiplier on\Nsomething
Dialogue: 0,0:15:59.58,0:16:01.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,else that you want to do. So rather than
Dialogue: 0,0:16:01.79,0:16:03.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,being like, I want to be really amazing at
Dialogue: 0,0:16:03.16,0:16:05.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,writing code, if you can say, I want to
Dialogue: 0,0:16:05.02,0:16:06.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,do, I want to change lives in this way
Dialogue: 0,0:16:06.67,0:16:08.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or make this sort of thing, and programming\Nis
Dialogue: 0,0:16:08.77,0:16:10.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the super power that lets you do it harder
Dialogue: 0,0:16:10.66,0:16:12.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and faster, I think that's like, the best\Nway
Dialogue: 0,0:16:12.61,0:16:13.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to think about that.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:13.53,0:16:15.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I have a friend who has just enough programming
Dialogue: 0,0:16:15.18,0:16:17.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,background, that at, he works at a bank with
Dialogue: 0,0:16:17.32,0:16:20.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a bunch of finance people, and everyone he\Nworks
Dialogue: 0,0:16:20.22,0:16:23.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with, basically they massage Excel spreadsheets\Nall day. And
Dialogue: 0,0:16:23.73,0:16:27.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,he has just enough programming background\Nto write VB
Dialogue: 0,0:16:27.47,0:16:30.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to do some of this massaging automatically.\NAnd he
Dialogue: 0,0:16:30.07,0:16:32.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is, you know, the one-eyed man in the land
Dialogue: 0,0:16:32.53,0:16:34.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the blind. Like, he is, there is, he
Dialogue: 0,0:16:34.51,0:16:36.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is revered, and people are blown away, because\Nhe
Dialogue: 0,0:16:36.77,0:16:37.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,can do these things.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:37.55,0:16:39.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I think that's the perfect way to say,
Dialogue: 0,0:16:39.11,0:16:41.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,rather than saying I'm gonna be amazing at\Ncode
Dialogue: 0,0:16:41.43,0:16:43.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for code's sake, if you think, you know, I'm
Dialogue: 0,0:16:43.18,0:16:46.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,gonna get good at using code as this amplifier,
Dialogue: 0,0:16:46.29,0:16:47.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as a tool for the other things I want
Dialogue: 0,0:16:47.88,0:16:48.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to do.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:48.12,0:16:49.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,N.R.: What they used to say about journalism\Nschool
Dialogue: 0,0:16:49.93,0:16:51.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is don't do journalism school as an undergraduate.\NLearn
Dialogue: 0,0:16:51.92,0:16:54.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,something, and then learn how to apply journalism\Nto
Dialogue: 0,0:16:54.49,0:16:56.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it. I think programming is very similar. Like,\Nlearn
Dialogue: 0,0:16:56.53,0:16:58.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,how to do something and then learn how to
Dialogue: 0,0:16:58.68,0:16:59.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,apply programming to it.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:59.72,0:17:01.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,One thing I have seen from both the, I've
Dialogue: 0,0:17:01.80,0:17:04.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,met a number of Dev BootCamp and GSchool,\NJumpstart
Dialogue: 0,0:17:04.78,0:17:08.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,graduates, and they do seem very enthusiastic\Nas a
Dialogue: 0,0:17:08.71,0:17:11.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,group, as people who have, like, chosen something\Nand
Dialogue: 0,0:17:11.44,0:17:14.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,gone through and succeeded in this challenging\Nprogram. They
Dialogue: 0,0:17:14.29,0:17:16.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,tend to come out being, being very enthusiastic.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:16.97,0:17:18.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,K.E.: You have to.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:18.08,0:17:18.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,N.R.: Yeah.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:18.50,0:17:20.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,K.E.: I mean, you spend eighty to ninety hours
Dialogue: 0,0:17:20.40,0:17:22.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a week.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:22.16,0:17:23.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,N.R.: So the question is, how do we make
Dialogue: 0,0:17:23.94,0:17:25.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,sure that the next generation of developers\Nhas the
Dialogue: 0,0:17:25.93,0:17:30.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,interpersonal skills to be leaders and, and\Nmentors within
Dialogue: 0,0:17:30.86,0:17:31.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the community.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:31.71,0:17:33.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,L.A.: I don't know if you've noticed this\Nabout
Dialogue: 0,0:17:33.44,0:17:35.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,me. I'm kind of a perky person. I'm kind
Dialogue: 0,0:17:35.25,0:17:38.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of, you know, friendly, I hug a lot. When
Dialogue: 0,0:17:38.21,0:17:40.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I introduce myself at Girl Develop It classes,\NI
Dialogue: 0,0:17:40.43,0:17:43.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,always say, I wasn't doing this a year ago.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:43.26,0:17:45.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I don't get to say that anymore because it's
Dialogue: 0,0:17:45.04,0:17:48.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,now been a year. I'm so proud of myself.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:48.20,0:17:50.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But, I tell them, when I tell them my
Dialogue: 0,0:17:50.57,0:17:52.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,story, I say, I made this career transition.\NI
Dialogue: 0,0:17:52.70,0:17:55.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,went to Dev BootCamp. I made this choice.\NAnd
Dialogue: 0,0:17:55.05,0:17:56.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I would not have been able to do this
Dialogue: 0,0:17:56.80,0:18:00.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,without the assistance of my mentors, of my\Nfriends,
Dialogue: 0,0:18:00.43,0:18:03.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the teachers at Dev BootCamp who, Jen talked
Dialogue: 0,0:18:03.28,0:18:05.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,me down from a ledge a couple times. It
Dialogue: 0,0:18:05.33,0:18:08.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,was not easy. It was really difficult. And\NI
Dialogue: 0,0:18:08.75,0:18:10.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,preach that to them, and I tell them, I'm
Dialogue: 0,0:18:10.77,0:18:12.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,here for you. Katie's here for you. We have
Dialogue: 0,0:18:12.82,0:18:15.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,meet ups. We're your friends. We're your mentors.\NWe
Dialogue: 0,0:18:15.37,0:18:17.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,are here. You should be here for the people
Dialogue: 0,0:18:17.58,0:18:19.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that you need help with. And we encourage\Nthem
Dialogue: 0,0:18:19.85,0:18:22.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to help each other during class. So it's not
Dialogue: 0,0:18:22.64,0:18:25.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,just something we say, do this, maybe, you\Nknow,
Dialogue: 0,0:18:25.08,0:18:27.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in a year or a month or however long,
Dialogue: 0,0:18:27.42,0:18:30.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,x days, until you become a developer.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:30.03,0:18:32.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's do this right now. Do this in class.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:32.46,0:18:34.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Help this person next to you when they're\Nstruggling.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:34.63,0:18:37.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,J.M.: And, and, at Dev BootCamp, we actually\Nkind
Dialogue: 0,0:18:37.84,0:18:39.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of take it a bit further and formalize it.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:39.78,0:18:41.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So we actually have a portion of our curriculum
Dialogue: 0,0:18:41.42,0:18:45.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that's called Engineering Empathy. The students\Nall go through
Dialogue: 0,0:18:45.46,0:18:51.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,guided sessions in feedback and communication\Nand, you know,
Dialogue: 0,0:18:51.16,0:18:54.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,understanding themselves as, as kind of touchy-feely\Nas that
Dialogue: 0,0:18:54.23,0:18:57.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,sounds. The goal is exactly what you described,\Nis
Dialogue: 0,0:18:57.49,0:19:00.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to get people to know how to communicate better,
Dialogue: 0,0:19:00.66,0:19:03.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,know themselves better, have better team dynamics,\Nand just
Dialogue: 0,0:19:03.75,0:19:07.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,be well-rounded individuals that know how\Nto connect with
Dialogue: 0,0:19:07.31,0:19:10.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,other people. Whether it's on their teams\Nor clients
Dialogue: 0,0:19:10.68,0:19:12.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or customers, any of those sort of things\Nthat
Dialogue: 0,0:19:12.92,0:19:14.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you need to be able to, to build really
Dialogue: 0,0:19:14.79,0:19:16.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,good software.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:16.05,0:19:18.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We formalize that, we have sessions for it,\Nand
Dialogue: 0,0:19:18.15,0:19:20.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,then we try to support structure around it.\NLike
Dialogue: 0,0:19:20.72,0:19:23.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Liz describes, of all of us being on board
Dialogue: 0,0:19:23.63,0:19:25.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and all the instructors are there to kind\Nof,
Dialogue: 0,0:19:25.95,0:19:27.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to reinforce it as they go all the way
Dialogue: 0,0:19:27.69,0:19:28.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,through the program.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:28.46,0:19:31.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,B.T.: I would just add to that, specifically\Nto
Dialogue: 0,0:19:31.44,0:19:33.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,your question about how do we foster this?\NI
Dialogue: 0,0:19:33.43,0:19:37.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,would say that, in, I am a very extroverted
Dialogue: 0,0:19:37.85,0:19:41.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,person, and aside from that, I think it's\Nreally
Dialogue: 0,0:19:41.51,0:19:45.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,important when you, when you work with new\Ndevelopers,
Dialogue: 0,0:19:45.17,0:19:48.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,be in their business. Like, don't let them,\Nyou
Dialogue: 0,0:19:48.98,0:19:51.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,know, OK, yeah, yeah, yeah, I got this. I'm
Dialogue: 0,0:19:51.48,0:19:53.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,just gonna go work over here on this thing,
Dialogue: 0,0:19:53.04,0:19:54.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or I'm gonna do a couple hours of code
Dialogue: 0,0:19:54.95,0:19:57.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,school till you give me a task to do.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:57.95,0:20:00.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Because I think as new developers, no matter\Nhow
Dialogue: 0,0:20:00.57,0:20:03.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,extroverted we are or, there, there is still\Na
Dialogue: 0,0:20:03.84,0:20:06.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,little bit, that fear of, oh gosh. We're gonna
Dialogue: 0,0:20:06.05,0:20:08.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,break production. Oh shit.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:08.82,0:20:11.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Or whatever it is. Or you know, maybe we're
Dialogue: 0,0:20:11.15,0:20:13.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,just, we're too nervous to ask questions because\Nyou
Dialogue: 0,0:20:13.86,0:20:16.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,guys look really busy doing the real work.\NSo,
Dialogue: 0,0:20:16.87,0:20:19.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I would, I just think it's important, at least
Dialogue: 0,0:20:19.56,0:20:22.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for me, I mean, I like it when mentors
Dialogue: 0,0:20:22.50,0:20:25.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and people that I look up to are, they're
Dialogue: 0,0:20:25.16,0:20:26.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,like in my business. They're like, OK, what\Nare
Dialogue: 0,0:20:26.91,0:20:30.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you doing? Let's talk about that. Let me shoulder
Dialogue: 0,0:20:30.06,0:20:32.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,hawk you for a few. Let's pair program. I
Dialogue: 0,0:20:32.08,0:20:34.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,think all of that is really important in fostering
Dialogue: 0,0:20:34.79,0:20:37.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,new developers.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:37.05,0:20:41.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,J.C.: Anybody in the room been a mentor for
Dialogue: 0,0:20:41.68,0:20:44.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a program like one of ours? So, number one,
Dialogue: 0,0:20:44.82,0:20:47.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,want to give you tremendous shout outs, that\Nthose
Dialogue: 0,0:20:47.49,0:20:52.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,relationships are incredibly valuable for\Nour students. People like
Dialogue: 0,0:20:52.28,0:20:54.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Shawn had a mentor, a mentee in our program,
Dialogue: 0,0:20:54.92,0:20:58.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and like, Shawn changed that young man's life.\NLike,
Dialogue: 0,0:20:58.34,0:21:03.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,without a doubt. So, tremendous shout outs.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:03.09,0:21:05.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Fostering the interpersonal communication\NI think is the most
Dialogue: 0,0:21:05.38,0:21:08.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,valuable piece we can add, right. Like, the\Ncode
Dialogue: 0,0:21:08.24,0:21:10.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you can get from a book. And how to
Dialogue: 0,0:21:10.35,0:21:12.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,work with a team and how a team goes
Dialogue: 0,0:21:12.42,0:21:15.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,wrong and right, you only get through experience.\NAnd
Dialogue: 0,0:21:15.25,0:21:18.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so, that's like, with our program, we're fortunate\Nto
Dialogue: 0,0:21:18.45,0:21:21.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,have a very long time. And so, they work
Dialogue: 0,0:21:21.06,0:21:23.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,primarily in three week projects with groups\Nof four
Dialogue: 0,0:21:23.87,0:21:27.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,people. And you learn all the hard lessons\Nof,
Dialogue: 0,0:21:27.80,0:21:29.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,hopefully, some of those first projects that\Nyou would
Dialogue: 0,0:21:29.36,0:21:31.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,otherwise screw up for money, you screw up\Non
Dialogue: 0,0:21:31.89,0:21:34.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,your own time and your own money.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:34.21,0:21:36.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You see the team that has all the all-stars
Dialogue: 0,0:21:36.56,0:21:38.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and they go in with all the confidence, and
Dialogue: 0,0:21:38.86,0:21:40.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they're like, yeah, we've been doing this\NRails thing
Dialogue: 0,0:21:40.71,0:21:42.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for six weeks, we're gonna build a Backbone\Nfrontend.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:42.77,0:21:44.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And we're like, yeah, don't do it. And they're
Dialogue: 0,0:21:44.62,0:21:46.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,like, no, we're gonna do it. OK. And then
Dialogue: 0,0:21:46.40,0:21:47.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it all burns down, right.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:47.63,0:21:49.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Or, you see the team that is honestly kind
Dialogue: 0,0:21:49.97,0:21:52.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of mediocre with their skills, but they get\Nalong
Dialogue: 0,0:21:52.37,0:21:55.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and they pair well together, and they communicate\Nwell,
Dialogue: 0,0:21:55.12,0:21:56.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and then they end up delivering better software\Nthan
Dialogue: 0,0:21:56.82,0:21:58.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the all-star team, and the all-star team is\Nlike,
Dialogue: 0,0:21:58.17,0:22:00.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,hey, wait a second. Like, we should talk to
Dialogue: 0,0:22:00.54,0:22:02.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,each other and, like, figure stuff out. Hmm.\NThis
Dialogue: 0,0:22:02.78,0:22:03.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,works better.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:03.96,0:22:07.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And, just getting to iterate on those problems\Nand
Dialogue: 0,0:22:07.54,0:22:09.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,learn them yourself, not just, like, hear\Nit in
Dialogue: 0,0:22:09.52,0:22:11.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a conference talk and try to follow through.\NWe
Dialogue: 0,0:22:11.66,0:22:14.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,do little things like lightning talks. I know\Nyou
Dialogue: 0,0:22:14.40,0:22:17.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,guys do lightning talks also. So, I, I like
Dialogue: 0,0:22:17.38,0:22:18.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to think that that has like, lead to like,
Dialogue: 0,0:22:18.96,0:22:20.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Bree's giving a talk tomorrow and a couple\Nof
Dialogue: 0,0:22:20.59,0:22:23.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,your grads are giving talks and so forth.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:23.99,0:22:28.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,R.N.: Sorry, next. Yeah. Go ahead.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:28.73,0:22:30.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, so the question is, is does it scare
Dialogue: 0,0:22:30.81,0:22:32.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,us that we're bringing in a bunch of people
Dialogue: 0,0:22:32.37,0:22:34.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,into an industry that's horrible at onboarding\Npeople.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:34.87,0:22:36.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,J.C.: I heard there's a talk about crafting\Nyour
Dialogue: 0,0:22:36.93,0:22:39.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,own onboarding experience that's really phenomenal.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:39.52,0:22:44.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,J.M.: I mean, it's a little scary, especially\Nas
Dialogue: 0,0:22:44.49,0:22:46.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,somebody who has been an instructor, you really\Ncare
Dialogue: 0,0:22:46.100,0:22:48.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a lot about those students, and they go out
Dialogue: 0,0:22:48.51,0:22:50.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,into the world and it's a little bit like,
Dialogue: 0,0:22:50.46,0:22:52.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,yeah, you're, you're sending your kid off\Nto school
Dialogue: 0,0:22:52.21,0:22:56.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or something like that. You don't know what's\Ngonna
Dialogue: 0,0:22:56.27,0:22:56.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,happen.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:56.84,0:22:58.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But, you know, I'm not really sure how to
Dialogue: 0,0:22:58.43,0:23:01.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,solve that problem other than just attack\Nit. And
Dialogue: 0,0:23:01.09,0:23:03.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so I think that if we can bring people,
Dialogue: 0,0:23:03.80,0:23:06.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or produce people that do know how to own
Dialogue: 0,0:23:06.29,0:23:10.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,their own learning and know how to communicate\Nwell,
Dialogue: 0,0:23:10.12,0:23:11.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,then those are some of the best weapons we
Dialogue: 0,0:23:11.66,0:23:13.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,have to improve the overall process for other\Npeople
Dialogue: 0,0:23:13.81,0:23:16.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,coming in. And hopefully we can also, for\Nthose
Dialogue: 0,0:23:16.100,0:23:19.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of us who know some these challenges, can\Nprovide
Dialogue: 0,0:23:19.94,0:23:22.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,more structure and, and, you know, we, we\Nhave
Dialogue: 0,0:23:22.33,0:23:24.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a placements team who works with companies\Nto hire
Dialogue: 0,0:23:24.56,0:23:27.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,our grads and things like that. So, we, we
Dialogue: 0,0:23:27.22,0:23:29.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,can build a structure that maybe can help\Nprovide
Dialogue: 0,0:23:29.54,0:23:32.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,more resources or help for the companies that\Nare,
Dialogue: 0,0:23:32.39,0:23:34.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,are taking our grads, and just make it smoother
Dialogue: 0,0:23:34.26,0:23:36.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for everybody. And hopefully the more we do\Nthat,
Dialogue: 0,0:23:36.48,0:23:37.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the better it gets.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:37.72,0:23:39.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,B.O.: I'm sort of the opposite of scared of
Dialogue: 0,0:23:39.89,0:23:42.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,bringing more people in. I think we desperately\Nneed
Dialogue: 0,0:23:42.11,0:23:44.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to do it. Right now, at, at least what
Dialogue: 0,0:23:44.78,0:23:47.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I see, demand is so much higher than supply,
Dialogue: 0,0:23:47.41,0:23:49.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and that works out pretty well for us as
Dialogue: 0,0:23:49.03,0:23:50.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,developers that already know what we're doing,\Nright, because
Dialogue: 0,0:23:50.85,0:23:53.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we're, we're very much in demand. The power\Nis
Dialogue: 0,0:23:53.33,0:23:56.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on our side right now. But if that demand
Dialogue: 0,0:23:56.15,0:23:58.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,are supply are mismatched for too long, the\Ndemand
Dialogue: 0,0:23:58.26,0:24:00.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,will drop. It'll have to drop. And I, I
Dialogue: 0,0:24:00.46,0:24:02.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,know someone who is a CTO for hire. And
Dialogue: 0,0:24:02.24,0:24:03.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so he works a lot of companies. And so
Dialogue: 0,0:24:03.45,0:24:05.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,he had a start up that just got funded
Dialogue: 0,0:24:05.06,0:24:06.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and was like, OK. Now we're ready. Let's go
Dialogue: 0,0:24:06.77,0:24:08.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,hire a Rails developer. And they couldn't.\NThey couldn't
Dialogue: 0,0:24:08.100,0:24:10.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,find someone. They said, OK, let's not write\Nit
Dialogue: 0,0:24:10.96,0:24:12.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in Rails. We're gonna go somewhere else.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:12.75,0:24:14.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, if we have this mismatch for too long,
Dialogue: 0,0:24:14.45,0:24:15.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think it will be bad for us. And
Dialogue: 0,0:24:15.100,0:24:18.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so I think, if we've got this crazy giant
Dialogue: 0,0:24:18.40,0:24:20.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,demand up top, we've got to, got to satisfy
Dialogue: 0,0:24:20.18,0:24:20.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:20.29,0:24:20.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,N.R.: Speaking of-
Dialogue: 0,0:24:20.62,0:24:21.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,B.O.: And it'll be better in the long run.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:21.56,0:24:22.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,N.R.: Speaking from the side of this of somebody
Dialogue: 0,0:24:22.75,0:24:27.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who onboards novices, I think that, I mean,\Nthis
Dialogue: 0,0:24:27.96,0:24:29.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is a problem that, to some extent, is outside
Dialogue: 0,0:24:29.57,0:24:31.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of all of their control, right, as Jen was
Dialogue: 0,0:24:31.30,0:24:33.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,alluding to. What we need to do on that,
Dialogue: 0,0:24:33.35,0:24:36.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on the, on the incoming, on the incoming side,
Dialogue: 0,0:24:36.69,0:24:40.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is understand that in some cases, the, where,\Nunderstand
Dialogue: 0,0:24:40.53,0:24:43.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,where these students are coming from, that\Nthe experiences
Dialogue: 0,0:24:43.46,0:24:45.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that they have had and the experiences they\Nhaven't
Dialogue: 0,0:24:45.27,0:24:47.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,had, and ideally put them in a situation where
Dialogue: 0,0:24:47.70,0:24:49.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they can be successful, and where we're matching\Nthem
Dialogue: 0,0:24:49.76,0:24:51.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to expectations that are reasonable.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:51.19,0:24:52.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You know, I think a lot of the students,
Dialogue: 0,0:24:52.91,0:24:54.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think that you guys would agree that, that
Dialogue: 0,0:24:54.17,0:24:56.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,there are better situations for your students\Nto go
Dialogue: 0,0:24:56.60,0:24:58.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to, and worse situations for your students\Nto go
Dialogue: 0,0:24:58.67,0:24:59.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to, and you want them to go to a
Dialogue: 0,0:24:59.89,0:25:02.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,place where there are going to be other p-
Dialogue: 0,0:25:02.40,0:25:03.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you don't want them to go to a place
Dialogue: 0,0:25:03.57,0:25:05.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,where they're going to be the entire straw\Nholding
Dialogue: 0,0:25:05.47,0:25:07.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,up, you know, the one straw holding up this
Dialogue: 0,0:25:07.16,0:25:09.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,huge weight of stuff. You want them to go
Dialogue: 0,0:25:09.06,0:25:12.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to a place where they're going to be more
Dialogue: 0,0:25:12.13,0:25:13.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,senior people who can put them in a situation
Dialogue: 0,0:25:13.80,0:25:14.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,where they're gonna be successful.
Dialogue: 0,0:25:14.68,0:25:16.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I do think we have to get better
Dialogue: 0,0:25:16.62,0:25:20.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,at doing that, generally.
Dialogue: 0,0:25:20.61,0:25:22.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Creating senior developers is a whole different\Nball. Jeff,
Dialogue: 0,0:25:22.76,0:25:25.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,did you have a point you wanted to make?
Dialogue: 0,0:25:25.72,0:25:28.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,J.C.: As far as companies that do and do
Dialogue: 0,0:25:28.41,0:25:32.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,not have apprenticeships, I think of it really\Nas
Dialogue: 0,0:25:32.71,0:25:35.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,evolution. Like, there are so many companies\Nthat sit
Dialogue: 0,0:25:35.56,0:25:38.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,around waiting to hire a senior engineer and\Nlook
Dialogue: 0,0:25:38.63,0:25:40.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for six months and don't find any and all
Dialogue: 0,0:25:40.67,0:25:43.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that. And meanwhile, the company who brought\Nin apprentices,
Dialogue: 0,0:25:43.90,0:25:46.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they now have six months experience, and they're\Ndelivering
Dialogue: 0,0:25:46.62,0:25:48.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,probably, like, somebody with two years of\Nexperience, if
Dialogue: 0,0:25:48.71,0:25:50.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they're doing it well. And the reality is,\Nif
Dialogue: 0,0:25:50.69,0:25:54.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,your company does, in my opinion, does not\Nwork
Dialogue: 0,0:25:54.17,0:25:57.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on bringing in young people, young in their\Ncareer,
Dialogue: 0,0:25:57.20,0:26:00.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you're gonna die. Like, you're just gonna\Nlose. Because
Dialogue: 0,0:26:00.22,0:26:02.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the teams that build up their own people keep
Dialogue: 0,0:26:02.98,0:26:06.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,those people. Those people are tremendously\Nvaluable six months,
Dialogue: 0,0:26:06.39,0:26:08.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a year, eighteen months in. And they'll just\Nbeat
Dialogue: 0,0:26:08.52,0:26:08.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you.
Dialogue: 0,0:26:08.78,0:26:10.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,N.R.: Dave, Dave Hoover had a theory at Optiva
Dialogue: 0,0:26:10.30,0:26:12.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that the goal of a, a small company was
Dialogue: 0,0:26:12.67,0:26:14.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to have people at every level. You have the
Dialogue: 0,0:26:14.87,0:26:17.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,best novices, you have the best intermediate\Njuniors, you
Dialogue: 0,0:26:17.43,0:26:19.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,have the best people right after that. You\Ndon't
Dialogue: 0,0:26:19.35,0:26:20.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,just have a bunch of seniors and a bunch
Dialogue: 0,0:26:20.70,0:26:23.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of novices. You have people, to the extent\Nthat
Dialogue: 0,0:26:23.08,0:26:25.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you can have people at every step in between.
Dialogue: 0,0:26:25.72,0:26:28.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What's great about that is, everybody has\Nsomebody who's
Dialogue: 0,0:26:28.19,0:26:31.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about six months ahead of them to point what
Dialogue: 0,0:26:31.01,0:26:32.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,their next six months are gonna be like, and
Dialogue: 0,0:26:32.83,0:26:35.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,everybody has somebody who's six months behind\Nthem, that
Dialogue: 0,0:26:35.33,0:26:38.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they are an obvious and immediate, like, partner\Nfor.
Dialogue: 0,0:26:38.69,0:26:40.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So if you can build up a business like
Dialogue: 0,0:26:40.35,0:26:42.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that, if you can build up a team like
Dialogue: 0,0:26:42.18,0:26:43.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that, that's, that's fantastic.
Dialogue: 0,0:26:43.54,0:26:45.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,B.O.: We've embraced that like crazy. Like,\Nbringing in
Dialogue: 0,0:26:45.97,0:26:47.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,apprentice level people. We have an apprentice\Nprogram. And
Dialogue: 0,0:26:47.85,0:26:49.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it's been huge for us. We've been able to
Dialogue: 0,0:26:49.38,0:26:51.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,hire so many more awesome people than we would
Dialogue: 0,0:26:51.75,0:26:53.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,have if we had just said, we're looking for
Dialogue: 0,0:26:53.11,0:26:56.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,senior only. We're not willing to invest in\Nthese
Dialogue: 0,0:26:56.73,0:26:59.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,people and train them.
Dialogue: 0,0:26:59.96,0:27:02.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,N.R.: So the question is, how do we get,
Dialogue: 0,0:27:02.08,0:27:03.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,how do we get the people coming in to
Dialogue: 0,0:27:03.40,0:27:07.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,set reasonable goals for what they can accomplish,\Ntechnically?
Dialogue: 0,0:27:07.31,0:27:11.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,B.T.: I'll start. Well, after being a student\Nof
Dialogue: 0,0:27:11.98,0:27:16.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,this gentleman, he's actually, I would say,\Nover the,
Dialogue: 0,0:27:16.36,0:27:18.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,over the six months that I was school, to
Dialogue: 0,0:27:18.93,0:27:21.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that point, he was actually really good in\Nthat
Dialogue: 0,0:27:21.63,0:27:23.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,learning time about, like, oh. You think you\Ncan
Dialogue: 0,0:27:23.81,0:27:27.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,do this thing? Go ahead. Knock yourself out.\NRight?
Dialogue: 0,0:27:27.67,0:27:29.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, much like with children, I have a seven
Dialogue: 0,0:27:29.53,0:27:30.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,year old, it's kind of like, you're in charge
Dialogue: 0,0:27:30.59,0:27:33.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of your own fun. You learn a lot by
Dialogue: 0,0:27:33.08,0:27:35.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,being crushed by some of those, oh, this was
Dialogue: 0,0:27:35.75,0:27:37.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a lot harder than I thought it was gonna
Dialogue: 0,0:27:37.65,0:27:41.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,be. So I think there's something important\Nabout that.
Dialogue: 0,0:27:41.54,0:27:44.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In terms of at the work place, I'd, at
Dialogue: 0,0:27:44.98,0:27:47.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,least where I work, you know, they're very\Ngood
Dialogue: 0,0:27:47.75,0:27:51.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about, and, and they have a, a focus on
Dialogue: 0,0:27:51.53,0:27:54.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,kind of onboarding, right. And so they're\Nvery good
Dialogue: 0,0:27:54.12,0:27:56.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about, hey, we're going to help define these\Ngoals
Dialogue: 0,0:27:56.98,0:27:59.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with you. We're gonna help ease you into the
Dialogue: 0,0:27:59.84,0:28:03.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,code base. And we're gonna do that with smaller
Dialogue: 0,0:28:03.66,0:28:06.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,sets of problems to solve. And we're not going
Dialogue: 0,0:28:06.89,0:28:10.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to place this burden on you for, get this
Dialogue: 0,0:28:10.09,0:28:13.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,feature done by this exact time.
Dialogue: 0,0:28:13.13,0:28:15.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so I think all of that is, is
Dialogue: 0,0:28:15.02,0:28:17.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,really, really helpful. And the other thing\Nthat I
Dialogue: 0,0:28:17.94,0:28:19.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,think's really helpful and goes a little bit\Nback
Dialogue: 0,0:28:19.58,0:28:21.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to what we were talking about just a second
Dialogue: 0,0:28:21.05,0:28:26.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,ago is, in terms of students, you know, even
Dialogue: 0,0:28:26.14,0:28:29.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in being novices, there's different levels\Nof that. And,
Dialogue: 0,0:28:29.48,0:28:31.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and people are different. And so I think that
Dialogue: 0,0:28:31.96,0:28:34.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the programs that do exist right now, Dev\NBootCamp
Dialogue: 0,0:28:34.48,0:28:35.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the other ones, I think one thing that's
Dialogue: 0,0:28:35.70,0:28:39.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,really important and that was beneficial for\Nme especially,
Dialogue: 0,0:28:39.21,0:28:43.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,was as I went through the interview process,\Nmy
Dialogue: 0,0:28:43.49,0:28:46.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,instructors were there with me through the\Nwhole thing.
Dialogue: 0,0:28:46.71,0:28:49.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And they were really, really honest with me,\Nas
Dialogue: 0,0:28:49.72,0:28:53.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,well as having conversations with employers,\Nabout my ability.
Dialogue: 0,0:28:53.91,0:28:58.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so, that helped, that honesty about, you\Nknow,
Dialogue: 0,0:28:58.20,0:29:00.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,where I'm at in my learning and the type
Dialogue: 0,0:29:00.22,0:29:02.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of learner that I am and the things that
Dialogue: 0,0:29:02.20,0:29:05.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'm interested in, is beneficial so that I\Ndon't
Dialogue: 0,0:29:05.06,0:29:08.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,find myself in a work place where, you know,
Dialogue: 0,0:29:08.61,0:29:11.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that's all I'm gonna be is, sort of buried
Dialogue: 0,0:29:11.09,0:29:13.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,under these goals or things that I can't,\Nyou
Dialogue: 0,0:29:13.60,0:29:15.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,know, where I can't really prosper.
Dialogue: 0,0:29:15.57,0:29:18.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,L.A.: On that note, it's also important to\Nteach
Dialogue: 0,0:29:18.84,0:29:22.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,people to reassess their goals and to be able
Dialogue: 0,0:29:22.22,0:29:24.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to take note of where they are and where
Dialogue: 0,0:29:24.93,0:29:26.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they expected to be, and maybe think about\Nwhy
Dialogue: 0,0:29:26.58,0:29:28.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they're not. I think that's also a very important
Dialogue: 0,0:29:28.63,0:29:29.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,piece.
Dialogue: 0,0:29:29.15,0:29:31.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,J.M.: Yeah. I just want to kind of, I
Dialogue: 0,0:29:31.06,0:29:32.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,like, really both of those, and I like what
Dialogue: 0,0:29:32.38,0:29:34.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you're saying, too. Maybe it's a parent thing.\NI
Dialogue: 0,0:29:34.52,0:29:36.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,have an eight-year-old. And I feel the same\Nway,
Dialogue: 0,0:29:36.73,0:29:39.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,where, I feel very strongly it's important\Nfor people
Dialogue: 0,0:29:39.53,0:29:42.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to make mistakes and be able to learn from
Dialogue: 0,0:29:42.47,0:29:43.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,them. And I don't think it's so much about
Dialogue: 0,0:29:43.82,0:29:45.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,preventing them from, you know, trying to\Nscale back
Dialogue: 0,0:29:45.95,0:29:48.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the goals to prevent them from making any\Nmistakes,
Dialogue: 0,0:29:48.35,0:29:50.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but, creating an environment where it's safe\Nto do
Dialogue: 0,0:29:50.62,0:29:52.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that, and them helping them in figuring out\Nwhat
Dialogue: 0,0:29:52.60,0:29:54.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they can learn from it when they do that.
Dialogue: 0,0:29:54.98,0:29:56.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So that's kind of, in general, the philosophy\Nthat
Dialogue: 0,0:29:56.91,0:29:59.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I like to ascribe to, and I think, Dev
Dialogue: 0,0:29:59.14,0:30:01.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,BootCamp is in a little bit of a different
Dialogue: 0,0:30:01.76,0:30:03.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,situation, where we don't have people as long\Nas
Dialogue: 0,0:30:03.69,0:30:05.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,some of the other schools. We only have people
Dialogue: 0,0:30:05.16,0:30:07.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for nine weeks. So we don't have as much
Dialogue: 0,0:30:07.54,0:30:09.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,time to do that, but I think we do
Dialogue: 0,0:30:09.33,0:30:10.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that in general, and then also the way we
Dialogue: 0,0:30:10.95,0:30:14.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,structure the program starts with the basic\Nbuilding blocks,
Dialogue: 0,0:30:14.05,0:30:15.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and then builds on top of them.
Dialogue: 0,0:30:15.67,0:30:18.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We're a Ruby on Rails training program, but\Nyou
Dialogue: 0,0:30:18.24,0:30:20.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,don't even get to Rails until your seventh\Nweek
Dialogue: 0,0:30:20.56,0:30:23.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the program. So, we're teaching the fundamentals\Nbefore
Dialogue: 0,0:30:23.85,0:30:25.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,then. So I think if you start out with
Dialogue: 0,0:30:25.21,0:30:27.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the, the basic blocks and build up from there,
Dialogue: 0,0:30:27.55,0:30:29.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and also at the same time kind of create
Dialogue: 0,0:30:29.04,0:30:31.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,this environment where it's OK to screw things\Nup,
Dialogue: 0,0:30:31.59,0:30:33.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and somebody's gonna help you figure out,\Nyou know,
Dialogue: 0,0:30:33.54,0:30:35.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,how to learn from that, or, as the two
Dialogue: 0,0:30:35.72,0:30:38.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,things together make it a lot easier to understand
Dialogue: 0,0:30:38.06,0:30:39.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,what you can achieve and how to do it.
Dialogue: 0,0:30:39.63,0:30:43.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,J.C.: No, hold on man. I'm going. Hold on.
Dialogue: 0,0:30:43.01,0:30:45.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,N.R.: I'm sorry. You can have your question\Nafter
Dialogue: 0,0:30:45.94,0:30:47.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Jeff says something.
Dialogue: 0,0:30:47.03,0:30:49.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,J.C.: So, TDD I heard is over.
Dialogue: 0,0:30:49.99,0:30:50.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,N.R.: Dead.
Dialogue: 0,0:30:50.41,0:30:51.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,J.C.: But, we teach it anyway.
Dialogue: 0,0:30:51.67,0:30:53.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,N.R.: Not, not, not, not just over. Dead.\NDead.
Dialogue: 0,0:30:53.55,0:30:55.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,J.C.: So we're old fashion. It's dead. Well,\Nwe're
Dialogue: 0,0:30:55.87,0:30:59.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,old fashioned. And so we, we teach TDD, and
Dialogue: 0,0:30:59.28,0:31:03.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it starts on day two, and I think that
Dialogue: 0,0:31:03.18,0:31:05.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the approach behind TDD is the same approach\Nbehind
Dialogue: 0,0:31:05.60,0:31:09.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,lean start up. And, like, breaking off incredibly\Nsmall
Dialogue: 0,0:31:09.09,0:31:11.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,problems, getting feedback right away and\Niterating on that.
Dialogue: 0,0:31:11.84,0:31:15.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so by starting with TDD, as the means
Dialogue: 0,0:31:15.24,0:31:17.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to build software, and then we try, through\Nthese
Dialogue: 0,0:31:17.44,0:31:20.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,three week projects they work on in their\Nteams,
Dialogue: 0,0:31:20.37,0:31:23.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,really take, like, a lean approach to delivering\Nit
Dialogue: 0,0:31:23.19,0:31:25.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,early, adding on incremental features.
Dialogue: 0,0:31:25.51,0:31:26.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Well, first we let them try and build all
Dialogue: 0,0:31:26.55,0:31:28.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the features and deliver it day of, and it
Dialogue: 0,0:31:28.41,0:31:30.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,all burns down and we're like, see. That sucks.
Dialogue: 0,0:31:30.73,0:31:31.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Don't do that again.
Dialogue: 0,0:31:31.80,0:31:36.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And, but, like, by, by starting with the tests,
Dialogue: 0,0:31:36.24,0:31:38.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and then applying that to the product, I think
Dialogue: 0,0:31:38.71,0:31:41.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it teaches you how to take an idea and
Dialogue: 0,0:31:41.13,0:31:44.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,figure out, what is the essential component\Nhere? Like,
Dialogue: 0,0:31:44.05,0:31:46.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,whether, whether it's an aspiration for a\Ncompany I'm
Dialogue: 0,0:31:46.27,0:31:48.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,gonna build, or just the goal for, I'm gonna
Dialogue: 0,0:31:48.72,0:31:51.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,learn something. Like, it's critically important\Nto figure out,
Dialogue: 0,0:31:51.59,0:31:53.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,like, what's the first step. And I think that's
Dialogue: 0,0:31:53.46,0:31:55.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the hardest part of any good idea.
Dialogue: 0,0:31:55.15,0:31:58.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,N.R.: OK. Now you can ask your question.
Dialogue: 0,0:31:58.53,0:32:01.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,J.C.: So I'm very involved in the interview\Nprocess
Dialogue: 0,0:32:01.99,0:32:03.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and do a lot of like, coaching with the
Dialogue: 0,0:32:03.75,0:32:07.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,students and so forth. And, your technical\Ninterviews are
Dialogue: 0,0:32:07.86,0:32:11.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a hot mess. Like, people have cargo culted\Ntheir
Dialogue: 0,0:32:11.80,0:32:15.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,process from, like, two companies ago, and\Nyou'll see,
Dialogue: 0,0:32:15.60,0:32:19.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,sometimes, it, it makes absolutely no sense.\NThere is
Dialogue: 0,0:32:19.18,0:32:21.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a company that'll put, like, students through\Nsix rounds
Dialogue: 0,0:32:21.66,0:32:23.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of interviews, and then say no. And I'm like,
Dialogue: 0,0:32:23.94,0:32:25.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,do you understand how much of your own time
Dialogue: 0,0:32:25.84,0:32:29.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you've wasted here? Like, it's insane.
Dialogue: 0,0:32:29.04,0:32:32.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Specifically with the technical questions,\Nyou'll see such a
Dialogue: 0,0:32:32.18,0:32:34.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,broad range. People will be like, I have an
Dialogue: 0,0:32:34.58,0:32:35.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,array. How do I pull out an element? And
Dialogue: 0,0:32:35.63,0:32:39.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it's like, really? Come on. And then there's\Nothers,
Dialogue: 0,0:32:39.62,0:32:41.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we, we did have a student get asked, like,
Dialogue: 0,0:32:41.44,0:32:43.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,are you familiar with binary trees? And he\Nsaid,
Dialogue: 0,0:32:43.51,0:32:45.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,like, yeah. I've built a binary tree. And\Nthey're
Dialogue: 0,0:32:45.09,0:32:48.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,like, do you know, like the, the lookup efficiency
Dialogue: 0,0:32:48.78,0:32:51.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of something? And he's like, oh, you mean\Nlike,
Dialogue: 0,0:32:51.35,0:32:52.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,n log(n)? And it's like boom. Bomb dropped\Non
Dialogue: 0,0:32:52.62,0:32:53.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you. Like, you didn't see that coming from\Nsomebody
Dialogue: 0,0:32:53.87,0:32:57.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who's been doing it for six months, right.
Dialogue: 0,0:32:57.18,0:33:00.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The reality is that, code, like, everyone,\NI guess
Dialogue: 0,0:33:00.50,0:33:03.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,not everyone. You should agree that coding\Non a
Dialogue: 0,0:33:03.97,0:33:06.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,white board is dumb, right. I tell students\Nthat
Dialogue: 0,0:33:06.41,0:33:07.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,if somebody asks you to code on a white
Dialogue: 0,0:33:07.70,0:33:10.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,board, tell them how do I run the tests?
Dialogue: 0,0:33:10.79,0:33:13.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And, like, question over.
Dialogue: 0,0:33:13.88,0:33:19.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But the, the piece about, like, how do they
Dialogue: 0,0:33:19.71,0:33:21.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,learn? How do they solve problems? That is\Nincredibly
Dialogue: 0,0:33:21.57,0:33:24.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,valuable. So, yeah. I, I think we need to
Dialogue: 0,0:33:24.85,0:33:29.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,have a lot more conversation around how, as\Nteams
Dialogue: 0,0:33:29.32,0:33:31.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and companies, do we want to build up interview
Dialogue: 0,0:33:31.04,0:33:34.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,processes that actually achieve the goals\Nand, and like
Dialogue: 0,0:33:34.21,0:33:35.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,find the people that we want?
Dialogue: 0,0:33:35.100,0:33:38.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Because, from what I've seen, there's like.\NThere's no
Dialogue: 0,0:33:38.86,0:33:40.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,understanding. There's kind of like, fear\Nand uncertainty about
Dialogue: 0,0:33:40.63,0:33:42.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it. We had a student this time ask, get
Dialogue: 0,0:33:42.88,0:33:45.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,asked to sign an MVA about the interview process.
Dialogue: 0,0:33:45.98,0:33:48.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There's, it's not that interesting, bros.\NLike, whatever it
Dialogue: 0,0:33:48.98,0:33:51.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is, it's not that interesting. So, I think\Nthere's
Dialogue: 0,0:33:51.22,0:33:52.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a lot of work to be done there.
Dialogue: 0,0:33:52.94,0:33:55.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,K.E.: I can just talk on a personal level
Dialogue: 0,0:33:55.52,0:33:57.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of, I had a really, well, I don't want
Dialogue: 0,0:33:57.76,0:34:00.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to say I had a bad technical interview. But
Dialogue: 0,0:34:00.33,0:34:02.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I want to speak to the good technical interview
Dialogue: 0,0:34:02.45,0:34:04.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that I had at the current company that I'm
Dialogue: 0,0:34:04.53,0:34:05.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with, and part of the reason why I chose
Dialogue: 0,0:34:05.67,0:34:07.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to go to that company is because of the
Dialogue: 0,0:34:07.27,0:34:08.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,technical interview.
Dialogue: 0,0:34:08.86,0:34:11.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And, the interview I had was a take home
Dialogue: 0,0:34:11.27,0:34:13.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,assignment. And this is one of the different\Nformats
Dialogue: 0,0:34:13.29,0:34:15.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you can do. I had a take home assignment
Dialogue: 0,0:34:15.29,0:34:17.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for three days to build an API. It was
Dialogue: 0,0:34:17.82,0:34:21.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,my first API, and it was just an amazing
Dialogue: 0,0:34:21.10,0:34:23.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,experience, in that, not only did I get to
Dialogue: 0,0:34:23.43,0:34:26.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,learn something, as part of the interview,\NI got
Dialogue: 0,0:34:26.08,0:34:30.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to see how accessible my manager would be,\Nand
Dialogue: 0,0:34:30.45,0:34:32.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,then he was also able to judge, how did
Dialogue: 0,0:34:32.48,0:34:35.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I attack something that I didn't know? And\Nalso,
Dialogue: 0,0:34:35.41,0:34:37.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,what kind of questions that, did I ask? And
Dialogue: 0,0:34:37.78,0:34:41.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think we each got a really good understanding
Dialogue: 0,0:34:41.49,0:34:44.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of what this type of relationship would be\Nlike.
Dialogue: 0,0:34:44.96,0:34:46.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So that's just personal experience.
Dialogue: 0,0:34:46.57,0:34:49.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,B.O.: So the, the process that we do I
Dialogue: 0,0:34:49.01,0:34:50.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,think is actually pretty good. So we do have
Dialogue: 0,0:34:50.33,0:34:52.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a, a technical screen, which is sort of a
Dialogue: 0,0:34:52.80,0:34:54.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,discussion of, how might you build this? How\Nmight
Dialogue: 0,0:34:54.45,0:34:56.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you build that? But the real meat of the
Dialogue: 0,0:34:56.30,0:34:59.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,interview is, in person pairing in the office.\NA
Dialogue: 0,0:34:59.23,0:35:01.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,full day. And you work on real stuff. Real
Dialogue: 0,0:35:01.97,0:35:04.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,client work. Real open source work. Whatever\Npeople would
Dialogue: 0,0:35:04.85,0:35:06.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,actually normally be doing. And you sit next\Nto
Dialogue: 0,0:35:06.77,0:35:07.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,somebody. And I like that a lot.
Dialogue: 0,0:35:07.98,0:35:10.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You know, you can run the tests. It's not
Dialogue: 0,0:35:10.05,0:35:12.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a, a fake, contrived problem. You can see,\Nalso,
Dialogue: 0,0:35:12.90,0:35:14.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,what it's like to sit next to somebody, and
Dialogue: 0,0:35:14.38,0:35:16.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it's cause there's, there's that social fit,\Nwhich is
Dialogue: 0,0:35:16.06,0:35:18.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so important, too. And so that, the white\Nboarding
Dialogue: 0,0:35:18.24,0:35:20.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,thing, I agree. That needs to die, for sure.
Dialogue: 0,0:35:20.48,0:35:22.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And, you know, let's move more towards pairing\Nand
Dialogue: 0,0:35:22.25,0:35:23.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,seeing what people are actually like on real\Nstuff
Dialogue: 0,0:35:23.89,0:35:25.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that you're working on.
Dialogue: 0,0:35:25.60,0:35:29.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,J.C.: I forgot to mention one of my favorite
Dialogue: 0,0:35:29.52,0:35:31.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,interviews that I ever saw, that you reminded\Nme
Dialogue: 0,0:35:31.83,0:35:34.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of, was ThoughtWorks asks you to create a\Ncode
Dialogue: 0,0:35:34.93,0:35:37.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,sample, or, like, solve a sample assignment\Nand submit
Dialogue: 0,0:35:37.80,0:35:39.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it. You have, like, a week, or something along
Dialogue: 0,0:35:39.33,0:35:40.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,those lines. And then when you get into the
Dialogue: 0,0:35:40.77,0:35:42.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in person interview, what you do is sit down
Dialogue: 0,0:35:42.49,0:35:46.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with an engineer and pair on refactoring your\Nsubmission
Dialogue: 0,0:35:46.16,0:35:47.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to the assignment.
Dialogue: 0,0:35:47.11,0:35:48.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so they get to see a lot of
Dialogue: 0,0:35:48.73,0:35:50.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,great things that way. Like, how do you understand
Dialogue: 0,0:35:50.51,0:35:53.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that you, that you wrote? Did you actually\Nwrite
Dialogue: 0,0:35:53.09,0:35:55.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it? You know. Like, and how do you think
Dialogue: 0,0:35:55.69,0:35:57.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about refactoring. Do you go, like, what it\Nworks?
Dialogue: 0,0:35:57.99,0:35:59.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Why would I change it? You know. Or, do
Dialogue: 0,0:35:59.40,0:36:03.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you understand how to restructure, abstract\Nobjects, abstract methods.
Dialogue: 0,0:36:03.91,0:36:04.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I thought it was awesome.
Dialogue: 0,0:36:04.70,0:36:05.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,N.R.: We do something like that too, while\Nwe're
Dialogue: 0,0:36:05.36,0:36:06.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,sharing, we've done that before. I think we\Nhave
Dialogue: 0,0:36:06.36,0:36:07.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,time for one more question.
Dialogue: 0,0:36:07.53,0:36:08.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,B.O.: That guy's had his hand up like the
Dialogue: 0,0:36:08.33,0:36:08.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,whole time.
Dialogue: 0,0:36:08.88,0:36:09.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,N.R.: OK. So I will, I will go with
Dialogue: 0,0:36:09.70,0:36:12.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you. I hope it's a good question. We actually,
Dialogue: 0,0:36:12.88,0:36:15.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we're last. I have no place to go, I
Dialogue: 0,0:36:15.00,0:36:16.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,have no place to go after this. But they
Dialogue: 0,0:36:16.34,0:36:21.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,may stop recording us.
Dialogue: 0,0:36:21.40,0:36:22.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,After dark.
Dialogue: 0,0:36:22.37,0:36:24.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AUDIENCE: [indecipherable]
Dialogue: 0,0:36:24.07,0:36:26.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,L.A.: We spent a lot of time getting women
Dialogue: 0,0:36:26.47,0:36:29.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,familiar with technical concepts and comfortable\Ntalking about technical
Dialogue: 0,0:36:29.81,0:36:32.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,concepts so they can take on more technical\Nroles.
Dialogue: 0,0:36:32.85,0:36:34.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Not necessarily as an engineer, but perhaps\Nas a
Dialogue: 0,0:36:34.70,0:36:38.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,product manager, instead of doing project\Nmanagement. And, that's
Dialogue: 0,0:36:38.05,0:36:39.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a subtle difference to us, but it's a huge
Dialogue: 0,0:36:39.83,0:36:41.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,difference to them. It's a world of difference.\NIt's
Dialogue: 0,0:36:41.46,0:36:44.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,more technical responsibility. They're more\Ncomfortable with their knowledge.
Dialogue: 0,0:36:44.95,0:36:49.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so, my goal, teaching people, is not to
Dialogue: 0,0:36:49.04,0:36:51.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,get them to be x, it's to get them
Dialogue: 0,0:36:51.38,0:36:54.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to whatever their x happiness will be. I love
Dialogue: 0,0:36:54.58,0:36:56.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,what I do, but that may not be right
Dialogue: 0,0:36:56.37,0:36:58.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for them. I want to help them in any
Dialogue: 0,0:36:58.59,0:37:00.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,way that I can to get to the technical
Dialogue: 0,0:37:00.69,0:37:02.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,career that they want to have, that will work
Dialogue: 0,0:37:02.75,0:37:05.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for them. And whatever resources I have, I\Nwill
Dialogue: 0,0:37:05.33,0:37:10.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,just like waterfall at their face. So.
Dialogue: 0,0:37:10.81,0:37:14.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,J.C.: It's one of the questions I really try
Dialogue: 0,0:37:14.32,0:37:17.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and watch out for in students, or applicants,\Nat
Dialogue: 0,0:37:17.16,0:37:19.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that stage, is do you want to be a
Dialogue: 0,0:37:19.97,0:37:23.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,professional developer? And if the answer\Nis no, please
Dialogue: 0,0:37:23.07,0:37:25.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,don't come. Because it's a tremendous waste\Nof time.
Dialogue: 0,0:37:25.91,0:37:28.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Like, spending twenty-seven weeks to prepare\Nfor a job
Dialogue: 0,0:37:28.81,0:37:31.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you don't want makes no sense. And I redirect
Dialogue: 0,0:37:31.73,0:37:33.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,them, like, you're a lot better off, like,\Ngoing
Dialogue: 0,0:37:33.94,0:37:36.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to Dev BootCamp, and you can come out and
Dialogue: 0,0:37:36.54,0:37:39.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,like, you have some programming skills and\Nyou can
Dialogue: 0,0:37:39.87,0:37:42.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,reappropriate those into a management position,\Nin a project
Dialogue: 0,0:37:42.63,0:37:44.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,position if you want to. It makes a lot
Dialogue: 0,0:37:44.43,0:37:45.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,more sense.
Dialogue: 0,0:37:45.54,0:37:48.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,J.M.: Yeah. I'll, I'll just add to that. That,
Dialogue: 0,0:37:48.12,0:37:50.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think that, sometimes even Dev BootCamp\Nis a
Dialogue: 0,0:37:50.11,0:37:52.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,little too intense for that, just because\Nmost of
Dialogue: 0,0:37:52.87,0:37:54.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the people, like, it's still hard to like\Nquit
Dialogue: 0,0:37:54.35,0:37:55.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,your job for nine weeks if you're just kind
Dialogue: 0,0:37:55.92,0:37:59.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of doing it to, to pivot. But it is,
Dialogue: 0,0:37:59.22,0:38:01.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it's less intense, or it might be a little
Dialogue: 0,0:38:01.03,0:38:03.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,bit easier. And we do have people who go
Dialogue: 0,0:38:03.29,0:38:05.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,through who want to apply it to, maybe, a,
Dialogue: 0,0:38:05.48,0:38:07.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a certain area that isn't just being a straight
Dialogue: 0,0:38:07.84,0:38:10.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,up developer. But I think, like, Liz was talking
Dialogue: 0,0:38:10.26,0:38:12.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about, things like Girl Develop It and other\Norganizations
Dialogue: 0,0:38:12.94,0:38:16.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that are working on really reaching out to\Npeople,
Dialogue: 0,0:38:16.43,0:38:17.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and there's lots of them. And they have lots
Dialogue: 0,0:38:17.77,0:38:19.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of different focuses. But I think that's where\Nthey
Dialogue: 0,0:38:19.70,0:38:21.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,really come into play, is that just opening\Nthese
Dialogue: 0,0:38:21.96,0:38:24.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,doors, and you get to choose where you go
Dialogue: 0,0:38:24.23,0:38:25.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,after that.
Dialogue: 0,0:38:25.33,0:38:26.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You know, you kind of just go, maybe a
Dialogue: 0,0:38:26.33,0:38:28.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,door is the wrong word, but more of a
Dialogue: 0,0:38:28.49,0:38:30.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,gateway. And, so then you can go in many
Dialogue: 0,0:38:30.31,0:38:33.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,directions after that. So, I think that these\Nare
Dialogue: 0,0:38:33.46,0:38:35.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,compliments, not nec- they're not all necessarily\Nthe same
Dialogue: 0,0:38:35.62,0:38:37.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,thing. We kind of have a spectrum of different
Dialogue: 0,0:38:37.93,0:38:40.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,organizations, and they compliment each other\Nreally well.
Dialogue: 0,0:38:40.37,0:38:42.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The really nice thing about just being, reaching\Nout
Dialogue: 0,0:38:42.76,0:38:45.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and letting people choose where they want\Nto go,
Dialogue: 0,0:38:45.16,0:38:46.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,maybe they don't know what they want and they
Dialogue: 0,0:38:46.87,0:38:49.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,don't know what's out there. I know, you know,
Dialogue: 0,0:38:49.57,0:38:51.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as I was growing up, I didn't even have
Dialogue: 0,0:38:51.39,0:38:54.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the internet, you know. Web, being a web application
Dialogue: 0,0:38:54.22,0:38:56.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,developer didn't even exist. So I had no idea
Dialogue: 0,0:38:56.78,0:38:58.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,until I was probably like in my early twenties
Dialogue: 0,0:38:58.76,0:39:01.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that maybe this might exist and maybe I can
Dialogue: 0,0:39:01.07,0:39:02.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,start working towards it.
Dialogue: 0,0:39:02.53,0:39:04.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And there are still, and that was kind of
Dialogue: 0,0:39:04.53,0:39:06.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a time thing for me. But there are many
Dialogue: 0,0:39:06.43,0:39:08.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,people who don't have access to the opp- to
Dialogue: 0,0:39:08.53,0:39:10.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the kind of opportunities that we do, and\Nso
Dialogue: 0,0:39:10.22,0:39:13.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,just being able to give them more accessible\Nways
Dialogue: 0,0:39:13.39,0:39:15.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to see what is out there, might be able
Dialogue: 0,0:39:15.33,0:39:16.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to say, oh, well maybe I actually do want
Dialogue: 0,0:39:16.90,0:39:18.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to do that. And then they can take one
Dialogue: 0,0:39:18.04,0:39:18.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of these other programs.
Dialogue: 0,0:39:18.99,0:39:21.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,N.R.: Yeah. Things like CodeSchool and Rails\Nfor Zombies
Dialogue: 0,0:39:21.06,0:39:22.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and stuff also have a place in that, too.
Dialogue: 0,0:39:22.89,0:39:25.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You get, you get a certain amount, enough\Nknowledge
Dialogue: 0,0:39:25.60,0:39:27.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to understand. You have to have enough. There\Nare
Dialogue: 0,0:39:27.93,0:39:29.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,some positions where all you need to know\Nis
Dialogue: 0,0:39:29.20,0:39:30.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you need to know when your technical person\Nis
Dialogue: 0,0:39:30.58,0:39:34.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,totally bull shitting you. And that, that's,\Nthose kinds
Dialogue: 0,0:39:34.72,0:39:37.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of things move to that, go to speak to
Dialogue: 0,0:39:37.26,0:39:37.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that.
Dialogue: 0,0:39:37.51,0:39:39.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I am obligated to tell you that we're at
Dialogue: 0,0:39:39.20,0:39:40.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,time. I, I don't have any place to go.
Dialogue: 0,0:39:40.90,0:39:43.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I don't know about you guys. So, if people
Dialogue: 0,0:39:43.62,0:39:46.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,have questions, I'm willing to, with whoever\Nwants, continue
Dialogue: 0,0:39:46.34,0:39:48.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to answer questions. If you have some place,\Nif
Dialogue: 0,0:39:48.85,0:39:51.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you guys have places to go, that's fine. But
Dialogue: 0,0:39:51.40,0:39:54.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,first, just a round of applause for the panel.
Dialogue: 0,0:39:54.27,0:39:56.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Thank you guys all for showing up. And, thank
Dialogue: 0,0:39:56.85,0:39:57.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you for coming.