1
00:00:00,735 --> 00:00:03,152
(calm music)

2
00:00:16,530 --> 00:00:19,579
- As a child, my parents had reproductions

3
00:00:19,579 --> 00:00:21,480
in their house,

4
00:00:21,480 --> 00:00:23,673
and some of them were really corny.

5
00:00:24,746 --> 00:00:26,747
(hole puncher snipping)

6
00:00:26,747 --> 00:00:27,930
(calm music)

7
00:00:27,930 --> 00:00:30,540
But in the guest room, they hung

8
00:00:30,540 --> 00:00:33,093
a textured painting by Van Gogh.

9
00:00:38,622 --> 00:00:41,913
So I scrambled up on the
chair and I touched it.

10
00:00:43,920 --> 00:00:46,050
That's what stuck to me,

11
00:00:46,050 --> 00:00:49,023
that painting would have
a kind of texture to it.

12
00:00:50,138 --> 00:00:51,450
(calm music)

13
00:00:51,450 --> 00:00:53,553
It's almost a kind of exhilaration.

14
00:00:55,470 --> 00:00:57,450
The process of being an artist

15
00:00:57,450 --> 00:00:59,073
I find very fulfilling.

16
00:01:00,210 --> 00:01:02,695
I feel a sense of freedom.

17
00:01:02,695 --> 00:01:05,112
(calm music)

18
00:01:15,360 --> 00:01:16,953
The templates are on the wall.

19
00:01:16,953 --> 00:01:19,230
That's great, yeah.

20
00:01:19,230 --> 00:01:20,070
- We're decorating the rooms.

21
00:01:20,070 --> 00:01:22,478
- Oh, I like that, I like that.

22
00:01:22,478 --> 00:01:23,311
(Howardena laughing)

23
00:01:23,311 --> 00:01:26,223
- Do you wanna put some
shapes on this one?

24
00:01:26,223 --> 00:01:28,650
- Mm-hm, let's see, that way?

25
00:01:28,650 --> 00:01:30,363
I like that way.
- Yeah.

26
00:01:31,346 --> 00:01:32,346
Or that way?

27
00:01:34,213 --> 00:01:35,820
- I kind of like this.

28
00:01:35,820 --> 00:01:36,750
- [Erin] You kind of like that?

29
00:01:36,750 --> 00:01:39,250
- Yeah, 'cause I'm very,
I love this wiggly thing,

30
00:01:40,380 --> 00:01:43,950
and I'm tempted to put a shape like this,

31
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but without that change there

32
00:01:46,560 --> 00:01:48,577
on this edge, in here.

33
00:01:48,577 --> 00:01:49,760
- [Erin] Oh, okay.

34
00:01:49,760 --> 00:01:52,380
- My intention is that it
would pull over into this.

35
00:01:52,380 --> 00:01:53,820
- Gotcha, yeah, okay.

36
00:01:53,820 --> 00:01:54,993
- And then with this,

37
00:01:56,275 --> 00:01:57,981
I think I would like to put that up.

38
00:01:57,981 --> 00:01:58,814
- [Erin] Okay.

39
00:01:58,814 --> 00:02:02,231
- 'Cause I really want that
dark to come through something.

40
00:02:02,231 --> 00:02:04,200
- [Erin] Okay.

41
00:02:04,200 --> 00:02:07,290
- I see abstraction as
an intuitive expression

42
00:02:07,290 --> 00:02:12,180
of someone's experience,
both good and both bad.

43
00:02:12,180 --> 00:02:14,013
At least you get the general idea.

44
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Let's see.

45
00:02:17,173 --> 00:02:19,380
(calm music)

46
00:02:19,380 --> 00:02:20,670
When you work with abstraction,

47
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you're working with your own
intuitive feelings about space,

48
00:02:24,090 --> 00:02:25,953
color, line, shape.

49
00:02:27,780 --> 00:02:30,420
Its purpose is almost a way of opening up

50
00:02:30,420 --> 00:02:32,193
our thought process,

51
00:02:34,860 --> 00:02:37,830
because you're reading
someone else's language

52
00:02:37,830 --> 00:02:40,480
and you're interpreting it
through your own language.

53
00:02:44,914 --> 00:02:46,890
Did you wanna do a painting
that was a dimensional?

54
00:02:46,890 --> 00:02:50,193
Did you wanna do a painting
that was about numbers?

55
00:02:51,690 --> 00:02:53,343
I felt challenged by that.

56
00:02:56,580 --> 00:02:59,613
The circular format is a
kind of internal gravity.

57
00:03:02,010 --> 00:03:04,470
It's so compact and you can make something

58
00:03:04,470 --> 00:03:06,273
that has a lot of tension in it.

59
00:03:08,400 --> 00:03:10,353
It's an iconic form in nature.

60
00:03:11,370 --> 00:03:13,770
And I could look at
the planets, the stars,

61
00:03:13,770 --> 00:03:16,053
the moon, molecules,

62
00:03:17,370 --> 00:03:18,753
it's all around us.

63
00:03:19,768 --> 00:03:20,940
(calm music)

64
00:03:20,940 --> 00:03:23,095
I'm fascinated by the circle.

65
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(calm music)

66
00:03:25,170 --> 00:03:27,840
And so back in the early seventies,

67
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I started spraying
dots, through templates,

68
00:03:30,330 --> 00:03:33,573
which I made by punching out file folders,

69
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and I would spray through the template.

70
00:03:39,226 --> 00:03:41,258
(calm music)

71
00:03:41,258 --> 00:03:44,010
(paint spraying)

72
00:03:44,010 --> 00:03:46,923
I make the basic drawings
for the spray paintings.

73
00:03:49,290 --> 00:03:53,179
The studio manager, Erin,
handles the spray equipment.

74
00:03:53,179 --> 00:03:55,596
(calm music)

75
00:03:58,390 --> 00:04:00,570
My father was a science math person,

76
00:04:00,570 --> 00:04:03,840
and I don't remember
getting a doll at Christmas,

77
00:04:03,840 --> 00:04:06,300
but I was given a microscope.

78
00:04:06,300 --> 00:04:07,650
I was very curious,

79
00:04:07,650 --> 00:04:11,220
and I used a dropper to put
some drinking water on a slide

80
00:04:11,220 --> 00:04:12,720
and looked under the microscope

81
00:04:12,720 --> 00:04:15,120
and there were all these
microbes swimming around

82
00:04:15,120 --> 00:04:16,830
in the drinking water.

83
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And it was all kind of at
random, they were just all over.

84
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(calm music)

85
00:04:21,360 --> 00:04:23,820
It was like drama 'cause
things would collide

86
00:04:23,820 --> 00:04:26,670
or move around, or they
wouldn't run into each other.

87
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And there was no particular reason

88
00:04:29,970 --> 00:04:32,460
other than they were just in water.

89
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So that microscope made a difference

90
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because I saw things in motion at random.

91
00:04:39,558 --> 00:04:41,975
(calm music)

92
00:04:50,070 --> 00:04:51,203
Oh my Lord.

93
00:04:52,600 --> 00:04:54,453
Oh my God, Virgil.

94
00:04:55,860 --> 00:04:57,960
Here I am with Nancy.

95
00:04:57,960 --> 00:04:59,523
I don't know how old I was.

96
00:05:00,570 --> 00:05:02,700
Oh, this is amazing,
it's my parents' house

97
00:05:02,700 --> 00:05:04,713
on Wayne Avenue in Philadelphia.

98
00:05:05,970 --> 00:05:07,293
That's incredible.

99
00:05:10,080 --> 00:05:12,060
This is my father.

100
00:05:12,060 --> 00:05:13,650
57.

101
00:05:13,650 --> 00:05:14,673
He loved reading.

102
00:05:16,530 --> 00:05:18,843
April 14th, my birthday.

103
00:05:20,780 --> 00:05:23,190
(pictures rustling)

104
00:05:23,190 --> 00:05:25,233
Oh God, it's really interesting, that's,

105
00:05:27,076 --> 00:05:28,226
my grandmother's house.

106
00:05:30,000 --> 00:05:33,483
Oh, this is in Hamilton,
Ohio, which is southern Ohio.

107
00:05:34,620 --> 00:05:38,163
And my grandmother had a
little bit of land and a house,

108
00:05:39,270 --> 00:05:40,953
and she grew her own food.

109
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I didn't know if there were
grocery stores in Hamilton.

110
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(calm music)

111
00:05:49,740 --> 00:05:53,313
I was triggered in terms
of my memory of circles.

112
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My parents and I went to Ohio
to visit my mother's mother.

113
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We drove to Northern Kentucky

114
00:06:07,290 --> 00:06:09,540
and there was a root beer stand,

115
00:06:09,540 --> 00:06:11,223
and my father liked root beer,

116
00:06:12,720 --> 00:06:16,203
and we were given chilled mugs
the same as everyone else,

117
00:06:18,360 --> 00:06:20,760
except there was a big
red circle on the bottom.

118
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And that basically meant that

119
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these were the utensils that
you used for non-whites.

120
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(calm music)

121
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And that kind of shocked me.

122
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For years, I keep noticing circles.

123
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I mean, just the shock of seeing that.

124
00:06:50,244 --> 00:06:52,661
(calm music)

125
00:07:11,207 --> 00:07:13,740
I like drawing numbers, but I have no idea

126
00:07:13,740 --> 00:07:15,483
what meaning they have.

127
00:07:16,890 --> 00:07:19,653
So I call them nonsense numbers.

128
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It came from seeing my
father write numbers

129
00:07:24,660 --> 00:07:25,863
as a mathematician.

130
00:07:27,810 --> 00:07:31,350
I think they're beautiful,
beautiful things to see.

131
00:07:31,350 --> 00:07:33,810
It's an essential part of our life.

132
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It's almost like our heart.

133
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Without our heart, we have no life,

134
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where everything's numbers.

135
00:07:43,304 --> 00:07:45,721
(calm music)

136
00:08:13,410 --> 00:08:15,420
- You feel good with your dot colors?

137
00:08:15,420 --> 00:08:17,883
- Oh yeah, I love it,
I love this pea soup.

138
00:08:19,284 --> 00:08:23,284
(people talking simultaneously)

139
00:08:25,830 --> 00:08:29,103
- Howardena, you used to
handpunch all of your dots.

140
00:08:29,940 --> 00:08:31,973
- With one single hole punch.

141
00:08:31,973 --> 00:08:35,056
(Howardena laughing)

142
00:08:35,940 --> 00:08:37,920
This is my third year at Dieu Donné.

143
00:08:37,920 --> 00:08:38,997
- [Woman] This is your third year?

144
00:08:38,997 --> 00:08:39,960
- Third yeah, yeah.

145
00:08:39,960 --> 00:08:41,183
- [Woman] Over a hundred pieces?

146
00:08:41,183 --> 00:08:43,143
- Hundred pieces, yeah, yeah.

147
00:08:44,850 --> 00:08:47,970
Well, I looked at a sample of colors

148
00:08:47,970 --> 00:08:51,677
and I like this, I call
it like pea soup green.

149
00:08:51,677 --> 00:08:52,510
(everyone laughing)

150
00:08:52,510 --> 00:08:54,150
And then with the purple blue,

151
00:08:54,150 --> 00:08:57,120
and then it goes from like dark to light.

152
00:08:57,120 --> 00:08:58,323
I like the gradation.

153
00:09:01,080 --> 00:09:02,730
- This might be silly question,

154
00:09:02,730 --> 00:09:04,800
but how Howardena, did you ever think

155
00:09:04,800 --> 00:09:06,513
that you would be this big?

156
00:09:07,350 --> 00:09:08,509
- Are you kidding?

157
00:09:08,509 --> 00:09:10,012
I don't even believe it.

158
00:09:10,012 --> 00:09:11,163
I don't believe it now.

159
00:09:13,170 --> 00:09:16,833
You know, when Amy sent that
text to me about Hong Kong.

160
00:09:17,820 --> 00:09:19,945
I was like, oh my God.

161
00:09:19,945 --> 00:09:22,749
(Howardena laughing)

162
00:09:22,749 --> 00:09:23,610
(calm music)

163
00:09:23,610 --> 00:09:26,313
It's almost like it's too late.

164
00:09:29,490 --> 00:09:31,800
It sounds strange, but,

165
00:09:31,800 --> 00:09:33,813
when I would've appreciated it,

166
00:09:34,650 --> 00:09:36,213
I guess when I was younger,

167
00:09:42,908 --> 00:09:44,241
I felt isolated.

168
00:09:46,380 --> 00:09:48,230
At that point I didn't have a dealer.

169
00:09:51,240 --> 00:09:54,330
Some of the rejections would
be from white collectors.

170
00:09:54,330 --> 00:09:57,510
Why should I buy an abstract
work from a Black person

171
00:09:57,510 --> 00:09:59,523
when I can get it from a white person?

172
00:10:01,200 --> 00:10:03,450
This is what Black
artists were running into.

173
00:10:05,490 --> 00:10:09,303
I worked at the Museum of
Modern Art for about 12 years.

174
00:10:10,560 --> 00:10:12,843
It was mainly white and male.

175
00:10:14,970 --> 00:10:16,950
Hostile questions too were coming from

176
00:10:16,950 --> 00:10:19,830
some of the women art historians.

177
00:10:19,830 --> 00:10:23,643
"What did I do to qualify
for my job at the Modern?"

178
00:10:26,400 --> 00:10:28,710
- You know, you really must be paranoid.

179
00:10:28,710 --> 00:10:30,240
Those things never happened to me.

180
00:10:30,240 --> 00:10:33,140
I don't know anyone who's had
those things happen to them.

181
00:10:34,650 --> 00:10:36,720
But then of course, they're
free, white, and 21,

182
00:10:36,720 --> 00:10:39,660
so they wouldn't have
that kind of experience.

183
00:10:39,660 --> 00:10:44,460
- Free, White, and 21 was a
video piece that I did in 1980,

184
00:10:44,460 --> 00:10:47,130
which was around the
time when I had resigned

185
00:10:47,130 --> 00:10:48,633
from my job at the Modern.

186
00:10:49,470 --> 00:10:51,630
- However, she felt that a white student

187
00:10:51,630 --> 00:10:53,880
with lower grades would go further,

188
00:10:53,880 --> 00:10:57,060
therefore she would not put
me in the accelerated course.

189
00:10:57,060 --> 00:10:59,490
- Well, I was kind of annoyed
at the white women's movement,

190
00:10:59,490 --> 00:11:01,530
and I also wanted to deal
with some of the racist stuff

191
00:11:01,530 --> 00:11:03,120
in the art world.

192
00:11:03,120 --> 00:11:06,210
And so I decided to be myself

193
00:11:06,210 --> 00:11:10,560
and then to dress myself up as
a white woman criticizing me.

194
00:11:10,560 --> 00:11:11,970
- You know, I hear your experiences

195
00:11:11,970 --> 00:11:14,880
and I think, well, it's
gotta be in her art.

196
00:11:14,880 --> 00:11:16,320
That's the only way we'll validate you.

197
00:11:16,320 --> 00:11:17,790
And it's gotta be in your art in the way

198
00:11:17,790 --> 00:11:19,143
that we consider valid.

199
00:11:20,400 --> 00:11:23,010
If it isn't in a, you know, used in a way,

200
00:11:23,010 --> 00:11:26,940
if your symbols aren't used in
a way that we use them, then,

201
00:11:26,940 --> 00:11:28,989
we won't acknowledge them.

202
00:11:28,989 --> 00:11:31,710
In fact, you won't exist
until we validate you.

203
00:11:31,710 --> 00:11:35,010
And, you know, if you don't
wanna do what we tell you to do,

204
00:11:35,010 --> 00:11:36,900
then we'll find other tokens.

205
00:11:36,900 --> 00:11:39,180
- And I just did this narrative

206
00:11:39,180 --> 00:11:43,320
and it goes back and
forth, and at the end,

207
00:11:43,320 --> 00:11:45,993
I pull off like I'm pulling off my skin,

208
00:11:46,830 --> 00:11:49,593
but it's almost like I'm
pulling off another layer.

209
00:11:52,410 --> 00:11:55,601
It was first shown in a show Ana Mendieta

210
00:11:55,601 --> 00:11:57,600
that I put together at A.I.R.

211
00:11:57,600 --> 00:11:59,820
It was way in the back and
I had a little metronome

212
00:11:59,820 --> 00:12:01,923
so it would tick as you watch the video,

213
00:12:04,050 --> 00:12:06,960
and the whites freaked out.

214
00:12:06,960 --> 00:12:08,700
They went wild.

215
00:12:08,700 --> 00:12:10,100
They were not happy with it.

216
00:12:11,700 --> 00:12:15,360
It's been shown in Berlin,
Scotland, and Ireland,

217
00:12:15,360 --> 00:12:17,910
and the Modern had it on view for a while,

218
00:12:17,910 --> 00:12:19,816
which is kind of ironic.

219
00:12:19,816 --> 00:12:20,649
(Howardena giggling)

220
00:12:20,649 --> 00:12:21,870
- Well, you ungrateful little,

221
00:12:21,870 --> 00:12:24,304
after all we've done for you.

222
00:12:24,304 --> 00:12:26,430
(calm music)

223
00:12:26,430 --> 00:12:30,243
- Even though early on, my
work faced a lot of rejection,

224
00:12:31,740 --> 00:12:32,840
I just kept going.

225
00:12:34,920 --> 00:12:36,750
I just didn't give up.

226
00:12:36,750 --> 00:12:38,790
You know, I just kept pushing

227
00:12:38,790 --> 00:12:41,673
and the work matured in spite
of a hostile environment.

228
00:12:43,590 --> 00:12:46,203
I was used to the work
being rejected or mocked.

229
00:12:47,340 --> 00:12:50,970
I mean, it's an irony it's
the same work I'm showing now.

230
00:12:50,970 --> 00:12:52,710
Literally, some of them
are the same pieces

231
00:12:52,710 --> 00:12:54,781
and it's the opposite reaction.

232
00:12:54,781 --> 00:12:57,198
(calm music)

233
00:13:27,006 --> 00:13:30,450
I seem to have more inhibiting
physical boundaries,

234
00:13:30,450 --> 00:13:32,973
but the art side of me is still there.

235
00:13:34,350 --> 00:13:38,280
And I can step out of my
own restricted container

236
00:13:38,280 --> 00:13:40,863
and be able to express what I feel,

237
00:13:41,970 --> 00:13:44,403
whether I'm limited physically or not.

238
00:13:47,340 --> 00:13:50,193
It's a life source for me.

239
00:13:53,310 --> 00:13:56,250
It's just, I don't get
tired of being an artist.

240
00:13:56,250 --> 00:13:58,560
I get tired of other things,

241
00:13:58,560 --> 00:14:02,013
but then I feel like I can
come here and make art.

242
00:14:04,080 --> 00:14:07,953
And it's not born of
expecting recognition,

243
00:14:11,340 --> 00:14:12,603
I'm just doing my work.

244
00:14:15,938 --> 00:14:18,355
(calm music)