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ANISH KAPOOR: Objects are,[br]I believe, illusory.

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They are never what they[br]at first appear to be.

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We look at them[br]mostly with love,

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hate, desire, revulsion[br]or whatever else it is.

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The viewer's involved.

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There's always a conversation.

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And one of the things I think[br]I've tumbled into in my process

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is that kind of uncertainty[br]of what the object is.

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Um, is the space of this object[br]in there or is it out here?

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It's-- it feels like[br]it's out here somewhere.

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Why not see the camera?

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Maybe you can't[br]do otherwise here.

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Even there, you see,[br]the camera's in it.

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Polished objects have been[br]around in art for a very long time.

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But they were all convex.

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I've been working[br]with concavity.

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And what it has is a focus.

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It magnifies and turns[br]everything upside-down.

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And at that point there[br]is a sense of vertigo.

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And it's that sense of turning[br]the object inside-out that I'm

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really taken with.

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We think of[br]geometry as knowable.

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The interesting[br]thing about geometry,

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however, is that when it's taken[br]to the Nth degree of knowing,

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it becomes unknowable.

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Here's another one.

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Um, which does a similar[br]thing in a different way.

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This is a rectangle[br]with one curved edge.

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It's a straight line here and[br]it's a straight line there.

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But all the surface[br]in between is curved.

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So it's doing all the things I[br]want of an object which is to

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become concave.

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Lewis Carroll proposes a[br]world into which you fall.

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You know, the rabbit[br]hole or whatever it is.

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And that sense of falling[br]is obviously a big part of

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concavity.

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As artists, we conduct[br]our educations in public.

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You can never know whether it's[br]going to be a success in terms

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of what the work is after.

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One just has to risk it.

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I've watched people walk into[br]a space and go in and go...

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like that.

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Um...[br]Great, that's what I'm after.

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That sense of, "How can it be?"

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Since "Cloud Gate" was finished[br]I'm told 200 million people have

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seen it, which is remarkable.

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And 200 million people[br]apparently means 500 million

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selfies [laughs] which I love.

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When I first made it, I[br]felt that it was too popular,

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too...easy.

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And in sitting with it I[br]realized that it does something

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rather interesting.

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When you're with[br]it, it's enormous.

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But you don't have to step too[br]far away from it and it's not.

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It has this sort[br]of shifting scale.

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The size of a thing is[br]the size of a thing;

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big, small, whatever it is.

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A scale of a thing, however,[br]is a strange combination of

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meaning, size and emotionality.

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It manages to say, "The measure[br]of my body is such in relation

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to the object that it does[br]something to my spirit."

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Does that lead then to ask[br]oneself about how big one is,

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how small one is, how[br]significant one is or all the

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variations?

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Like all good little Indian[br]boys, I was pretty sure that the

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only thing to do was to be[br]an engineer of some kind or

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something like that.

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But, you know, once I made the[br]decision to be an artist when I

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was 17, I knew that it[br]was what I had to do.

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I came here to go to art school.

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Because London is[br]marvelously cosmopolitan,

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I stayed.

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Come out and I'll try to[br]explain what we're doing

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next-door.

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Or what we're thinking about.

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I'm in the middle of[br]making a number of forms.

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They're all fairly organic[br]and they all have interiors.

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And we are wondering about[br]how we can make the process...

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simpler.

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I'll start something, whether[br]it's drawing on the wall or

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drawing on a piece of[br]paper or whatever it is.

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I don't pre-mediate them.

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I let it emerge.

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And I try and follow[br]the implications of it.

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But then, of course,[br]someone has to make them.

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So, uh, this was made[br]by Hilary, who's working

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down there.

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And it takes a particular kind[br]of thinking to do accurately.

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She and I have, over the years,[br]understood slowly how do you,

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um, do the drawing accurately[br]enough so that the object

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actually fits[br]together properly and so on?

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I grew up in a place called[br]Dehradun in the north of India.

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Um, in the[br]foothills of the Himalayas.

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So, there was always,[br]at the top end of town,

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um, the mountains.

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They were this kind of[br]constant mysterious presence.

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It's something that's been in[br]my work from the very, very

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early pigment works I made, you[br]know, 40 years ago to these void

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mountains.

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The proposition here at least[br]is that there's a place or space

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through it, beyond it.

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It's never just physical.

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That there's[br]always something else.

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I've worked a lot[br]with dark blues.

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This very, very black black[br]which I'm working with at the

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moment.[br]And red as blackness.

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Red as darkness.

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Red as interior.

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I think of color as[br]an immersive quality.

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That, you know, it's a bit[br]like going into the shower.

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You go in the[br]shower, you get wet.

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Once you've been in[br]front of a red thing,

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you get red.

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It's completely[br]with you, around you.

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Essentially it's a[br]reflection on an interior.

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You know, I'm defined by this.

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But actually, close[br]my eyes, I'm not this.

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I'm something else completely.

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I'm vast.

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And it has, I[br]believe, to do with red.

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Objects represent these[br]psychic propositions.

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"Symphony for a Beloved Son" is[br]conveyor belts that have great

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lumps of wax on them that[br]slowly go to the top and fall,

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making, I hope,[br]an enormous mess.

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What I'm after, of course,[br]is that sense of presence,

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decay, process-- all the things[br]that are proposed both by

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mechanical procedure[br]and by sculpture itself.

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Here is a work which is about 20[br]tons of wax with this big block

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that slowly turns.

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Nothing much happens.

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It's called "My Red Homeland."

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Because my homeland is red,[br]both internally and-- [laughs]

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and externally.

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You know, one[br]doesn't do psychoanalysis,

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uh, for fun.

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I mean, I did it[br]for 30-odd years.

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And I was, you know, in it[br]because I needed to be.

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What I love about it as a[br]process is that it proposes that

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the inner world is every bit as,[br]if not much more, significant

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than the so-called[br]word of reality.

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And the job then[br]is to work with it.

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And it's exactly what[br]happens in the studio.

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One comes back again and again.

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"What is this bloody[br]obsession with red?

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Why do I have to do[br]this again and again?"

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You know, I can't help it.

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It's just there.

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Being an artist[br]is a long career.

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There's a lot to do and truly[br]opening oneself to oneself is

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the hardest work[br]you can possibly do.