1 00:00:00,550 --> 00:00:02,250 - You don't know what you would do 2 00:00:02,250 --> 00:00:05,240 unless you're in that situation. 3 00:00:05,240 --> 00:00:07,270 That's not the conclusion of Stanley Milgram 4 00:00:07,270 --> 00:00:08,810 or Phil Zimbardo based on our research, 5 00:00:08,810 --> 00:00:09,753 that's a conclusion 6 00:00:09,753 --> 00:00:12,500 from an assistant manager in McDonald's in Kentucky, 7 00:00:12,500 --> 00:00:16,470 Donna Summers, who was trapped in what has come to be known 8 00:00:16,470 --> 00:00:18,450 as an authority hoax. 9 00:00:18,450 --> 00:00:21,660 A stranger calls up, pretending to be a police officer 10 00:00:21,660 --> 00:00:25,950 saying that one of the employees has stolen something, 11 00:00:25,950 --> 00:00:28,950 has contraband and that what she has to do 12 00:00:28,950 --> 00:00:31,943 is bring the woman to the security room in the back, 13 00:00:31,943 --> 00:00:34,910 strip her naked and search for this contraband, 14 00:00:34,910 --> 00:00:36,723 it sounds like it's drugs or something. 15 00:00:36,723 --> 00:00:39,490 And then at that point, 16 00:00:39,490 --> 00:00:42,770 the guy on the phone, who she believes is a police officer 17 00:00:42,770 --> 00:00:46,160 begins to tell her to do more and more outrageous things. 18 00:00:46,160 --> 00:00:49,390 Finally he asks her to bring in a male 19 00:00:49,390 --> 00:00:50,760 to take care of the situation 20 00:00:50,760 --> 00:00:52,981 'cause she's gotta go back to work, 21 00:00:52,981 --> 00:00:55,610 and this authority hoax guy 22 00:00:55,610 --> 00:00:58,490 this guy pretending to be a police chief, 23 00:00:58,490 --> 00:01:00,150 tells this man to do something 24 00:01:00,150 --> 00:01:02,113 which is horrendous. 25 00:01:03,120 --> 00:01:06,350 We could say this is what's wrong with this guy, 26 00:01:06,350 --> 00:01:07,900 what's wrong with this woman, 27 00:01:07,900 --> 00:01:09,980 if it didn't happen in over 60 other 28 00:01:09,980 --> 00:01:13,150 fast food establishments throughout the country. 29 00:01:13,150 --> 00:01:15,420 So here is the power of authority 30 00:01:15,420 --> 00:01:18,020 to get good people to do bad things. 31 00:01:18,020 --> 00:01:20,640 Not an experiment but in everyday life 32 00:01:20,640 --> 00:01:22,383 throughout the United States. 33 00:01:23,967 --> 00:01:26,634 (ominous music) 34 00:01:29,200 --> 00:01:30,620 - [Narrator] A series of strange events 35 00:01:30,620 --> 00:01:33,763 recently confirmed Milgram's theories about obedience. 36 00:01:35,770 --> 00:01:38,430 Targeting fast food restaurants across the country, 37 00:01:38,430 --> 00:01:40,730 the con man telephoned restaurant managers 38 00:01:40,730 --> 00:01:42,400 and convinced them to strip search 39 00:01:42,400 --> 00:01:45,293 and sometimes sexually abuse their employees. 40 00:01:47,050 --> 00:01:50,650 The mystery is not in the con man, but in the victims, 41 00:01:50,650 --> 00:01:52,023 why would they obey? 42 00:01:54,170 --> 00:01:55,500 - This person was so convincing 43 00:01:55,500 --> 00:01:58,600 that people saw him as a legitimate authority. 44 00:01:58,600 --> 00:02:01,394 I think we have probably the closest thing 45 00:02:01,394 --> 00:02:03,980 that we have to a Milgram experiment today 46 00:02:03,980 --> 00:02:06,223 in these strip searches. 47 00:02:07,570 --> 00:02:09,150 - [Narrator] The most famous of these incidents 48 00:02:09,150 --> 00:02:12,900 took place at a McDonald's in Mount Washington, Kentucky. 49 00:02:12,900 --> 00:02:16,373 - There was a videotape security camera had found, 50 00:02:18,650 --> 00:02:20,200 we didn't hear what the instructions were 51 00:02:20,200 --> 00:02:23,160 but due to the actions that had taken place, 52 00:02:23,160 --> 00:02:25,200 what the victim was doing in the video 53 00:02:25,200 --> 00:02:27,450 and stuff, it was pretty evident 54 00:02:27,450 --> 00:02:28,853 what each instruction was. 55 00:02:31,040 --> 00:02:32,050 - [Narrator] An anonymous caller 56 00:02:32,050 --> 00:02:33,680 pretending to be a police officer 57 00:02:33,680 --> 00:02:35,000 told the assistant manager 58 00:02:35,000 --> 00:02:37,163 that an employee had stolen some money. 59 00:02:38,440 --> 00:02:40,251 - He said "I'm Officer Scott," 60 00:02:40,251 --> 00:02:43,557 and he said "I'm with the police department 61 00:02:43,557 --> 00:02:48,557 "I'm investigating a complaint." 62 00:02:49,620 --> 00:02:52,840 It went directly from a theft into a drug thing. 63 00:02:52,840 --> 00:02:54,740 So I was asked to search her clothing. 64 00:02:57,150 --> 00:02:59,340 You know he would tell me, take her shoes, click them, 65 00:02:59,340 --> 00:03:01,793 take her shirt, shake it out. 66 00:03:06,840 --> 00:03:08,890 I know how it seems to people, 67 00:03:08,890 --> 00:03:11,470 but you weren't on the phone with him. 68 00:03:11,470 --> 00:03:14,370 The man has convinced 70 to 100 other places 69 00:03:14,370 --> 00:03:15,990 the very same thing. 70 00:03:15,990 --> 00:03:19,163 He's very good at what he does, very good. 71 00:03:20,591 --> 00:03:23,424 (thunder rolling) 72 00:03:25,640 --> 00:03:27,770 He sounded like a police officer, 73 00:03:27,770 --> 00:03:31,393 and I'm thinking okay, I'm doing what I'm supposed to do. 74 00:03:34,350 --> 00:03:35,920 - He was getting some kind of satisfaction 75 00:03:35,920 --> 00:03:37,530 about being an authority figure 76 00:03:37,530 --> 00:03:39,890 and telling people what to do 77 00:03:39,890 --> 00:03:41,870 and then realizing by the phone conversation 78 00:03:41,870 --> 00:03:44,815 that they were actually doing what he said. 79 00:03:44,815 --> 00:03:46,251 - He's telling me 80 00:03:46,251 --> 00:03:47,662 that I needed to get someone to sit with her 81 00:03:47,662 --> 00:03:49,170 while he goes and gets somebody to come in 82 00:03:49,170 --> 00:03:50,503 to pick her up. 83 00:03:51,890 --> 00:03:53,517 - The caller then asked the manager 84 00:03:53,517 --> 00:03:55,880 if she was married or had a boyfriend, 85 00:03:55,880 --> 00:03:57,630 she said she had a fiance, 86 00:03:57,630 --> 00:04:00,550 then the caller asked if she could have her fiance 87 00:04:00,550 --> 00:04:01,550 come to the restaurant 88 00:04:01,550 --> 00:04:04,690 and assist her with the strip search of the victim. 89 00:04:04,690 --> 00:04:06,187 - He says, "Well, why don't you have him come up 90 00:04:06,187 --> 00:04:08,350 "and sit there, I mean you can trust him." 91 00:04:08,350 --> 00:04:11,390 So I called Wes, my fiance, 92 00:04:11,390 --> 00:04:12,370 we were gonna get married, 93 00:04:12,370 --> 00:04:14,070 and asked him if he would come up. 94 00:04:17,300 --> 00:04:18,320 - The manager goes about 95 00:04:18,320 --> 00:04:21,140 doing her duties of running the restaurant 96 00:04:21,140 --> 00:04:23,860 and leaves the fiance there in the office 97 00:04:23,860 --> 00:04:26,131 and then the caller starts giving instructions 98 00:04:26,131 --> 00:04:28,020 over the phone of things 99 00:04:28,020 --> 00:04:30,800 that he wants the victim to do 100 00:04:30,800 --> 00:04:34,213 and what he wants the fiance to tell her to do. 101 00:04:36,860 --> 00:04:38,330 Have her remove her apron 102 00:04:38,330 --> 00:04:42,120 and instructed to do jumping jacks and jog in place 103 00:04:42,120 --> 00:04:45,403 and several more things. 104 00:04:49,330 --> 00:04:50,780 She was still in high school, 105 00:04:52,210 --> 00:04:53,280 the kind of person she was, 106 00:04:53,280 --> 00:04:56,350 she was actually graduating the top 10 in her class 107 00:04:56,350 --> 00:04:59,900 and she was scared of being in trouble with the police 108 00:04:59,900 --> 00:05:01,740 so she sort of just went along 109 00:05:01,740 --> 00:05:06,590 and did whatever the fiance told her to do 110 00:05:06,590 --> 00:05:11,060 because she didn't want to be in trouble for anything. 111 00:05:11,060 --> 00:05:13,420 - During all this time, I'm working. 112 00:05:13,420 --> 00:05:16,050 I'm running the floor, I'm getting change, 113 00:05:16,050 --> 00:05:18,580 and then when I would walk into the office 114 00:05:18,580 --> 00:05:20,790 to get the change or whatever I had to get, 115 00:05:20,790 --> 00:05:22,554 Wes would be sitting where he was when I left 116 00:05:22,554 --> 00:05:26,370 and she was sitting where she was, 117 00:05:26,370 --> 00:05:27,620 and no one said anything. 118 00:05:31,490 --> 00:05:33,300 - [Narrator] After over two and a half hours, 119 00:05:33,300 --> 00:05:35,570 Summers' fiance Walter Nicks, 120 00:05:35,570 --> 00:05:37,320 did something that was unthinkable. 121 00:05:38,640 --> 00:05:40,970 Complying with the instructions of the caller, 122 00:05:40,970 --> 00:05:43,803 he ordered the employee to perform a sexual act. 123 00:05:46,750 --> 00:05:49,910 - And there was no way that I could take away 124 00:05:49,910 --> 00:05:51,840 from what happened to her. 125 00:05:51,840 --> 00:05:54,190 A lot of people you know look at you 126 00:05:54,190 --> 00:05:56,400 and go, "Well you're a nut, you should be strung up." 127 00:05:56,400 --> 00:05:57,833 I've had it even said to me, 128 00:05:59,180 --> 00:06:01,603 God it's really hard because you weren't there. 129 00:06:07,540 --> 00:06:08,930 - The Milgram study showed us 130 00:06:08,930 --> 00:06:10,350 that most people would do that. 131 00:06:10,350 --> 00:06:11,610 If you structure the environment 132 00:06:11,610 --> 00:06:14,870 such that you provide all the authority 133 00:06:14,870 --> 00:06:18,620 and the commands, just anybody might do this. 134 00:06:18,620 --> 00:06:20,710 - But I do think this sounds worse. 135 00:06:20,710 --> 00:06:23,013 - You think this is worse than what Milgram did? 136 00:06:23,013 --> 00:06:25,860 - With the Milgram there was somebody sitting right there 137 00:06:25,860 --> 00:06:28,650 and instructing them if they hesitated they could turn 138 00:06:28,650 --> 00:06:30,190 and then somebody could encourage them 139 00:06:30,190 --> 00:06:33,190 and they could sort of maybe psychologically 140 00:06:33,190 --> 00:06:35,540 leave that responsibility on that other person. 141 00:06:35,540 --> 00:06:37,940 But in this case, the police officer's on the phone, 142 00:06:37,940 --> 00:06:39,030 he's not standing there. 143 00:06:39,030 --> 00:06:40,630 - And that is a very good point. 144 00:06:42,828 --> 00:06:43,661 - You know you look back on it, 145 00:06:43,661 --> 00:06:44,650 you say I wouldn't have done it, 146 00:06:44,650 --> 00:06:46,880 but unless you're put in that situation, 147 00:06:46,880 --> 00:06:49,990 at that time, how do you know what you would do? 148 00:06:49,990 --> 00:06:51,843 You don't, you don't. 149 00:06:53,110 --> 00:06:54,510 - [Narrator] Over 60 other people 150 00:06:54,510 --> 00:06:57,170 did exactly as Donna Summers did. 151 00:06:57,170 --> 00:06:59,810 Why is it so easy for us to obey orders, 152 00:06:59,810 --> 00:07:01,460 even when we know they are wrong? 153 00:07:03,310 --> 00:07:06,050 Why are we willing to inflict pain on others, 154 00:07:06,050 --> 00:07:08,710 if someone else takes responsibility? 155 00:07:08,710 --> 00:07:09,990 - There's nothing more difficult 156 00:07:09,990 --> 00:07:12,860 for people to violate a social structure, 157 00:07:12,860 --> 00:07:15,610 which all participants have initially accepted. 158 00:07:15,610 --> 00:07:16,990 It reminds me of a situation 159 00:07:16,990 --> 00:07:18,280 that once occurred in South America, 160 00:07:18,280 --> 00:07:19,650 I was in an airplane, 161 00:07:19,650 --> 00:07:21,520 the pilot came into the plane, he was drunk, 162 00:07:21,520 --> 00:07:23,360 he was reeling toward the cockpit. 163 00:07:23,360 --> 00:07:24,700 Passengers looked at each other, 164 00:07:24,700 --> 00:07:27,227 but no one got up, no one said to the pilot, 165 00:07:27,227 --> 00:07:28,890 "You're drunk, we can't fly on this plane." 166 00:07:28,890 --> 00:07:30,810 There is a set of pressures 167 00:07:30,810 --> 00:07:33,763 that keep you in the role you've initially accepted.