9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Elizabeth Murray:[br]The whole thing is so scatological. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 When you're painting, it's like so [br]physical. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 It's really physical. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 You're squeezing the paint out of the tube[br]which is fun. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 You're mixing up the paint. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 It's making something happen with a very [br]sort of fluid material that is constantly 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 somewhat out of control, harnessing it [br]somehow, harnessing that energy of the 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 paint. I think that's the primary thing [br]that painting is about. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 For a couple of years I've been working[br]with cutting out shapes 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 and kind of glomming them together. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 You know, like basically making a zigzag[br]shape and making a sort of 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 rectangular shape and a circular bloopy [br]fat cloudy shape and just putting them all 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 together and sort of letting the cards [br]fall where they may. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 I know the shapes are always referred to [br]as cartoony. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 And they are cartoony and bumpy and [br]rounded 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 and inflated and sort of wacky. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 All of these shapes are stuck on to each [br]other in some kind of way. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Sort of like a weird fence or a weird [br]lattice. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Another part of it for me is to use very [br]intense color. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 With the color and with the shape [br]and with the drawing inside of the shape 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 really it's just simply trying to make it [br]work somehow. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 There are so many different combinations [br]of things. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 It's like being a safe breaker and you're [br]listening to the- 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 those movies where they've got their ear [br]up against the safe and you are listening 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 for the right click for the right [br]cylinders to like drop down. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Sometimes it's felt really like that, [br]like I'm just like painting 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 and painting until the right thing [br]happens. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 I want there to be conflict and I 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 want there to be tension. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 And yet somehow I want to make these [br]very conflicting things live together, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 and not just butt up against each other[br]but really live together. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 I do drawings inside the book. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 And they're just kind of like warm-up to [br]get my mind into it. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 You know like to give myself some, [br]some place to start from, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 that's really all they are. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 It all starts with drawing. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 I think the thing I remember the most [br]is, when I was little was, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 the excitement of being able to draw [br]something. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 I loved to draw, and I did obsessively. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 I guess I kind of realized that it was a [br]skill that made me feel good about myself. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 The Art Institute in Chicago totally [br]changed my life. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 There were people there, the likes of whom[br]I'd never seen before, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 in little Bloomington, Illinois. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 I absolutely feel in love with that [br]world. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 But I think as much as I wanted to be [br]an artist, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 I wanted to be different the way they [br]were different. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Because it felt like freedom. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Instead of being trapped in your little [br]Pendleton skirt and your bobbysocks, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 and your saddle shoes, you could wear [br]big heavy black boots and put blue 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 makeup on and just, you know, say [br]what you thought. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 You didn't have to be a nice lady[br]anymore. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 But the teachers seemed to be there[br]to teach you that you had no hopes 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 and no prospects, and being an artist was[br]one of the most impossible things in the 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 world. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 And you'd better realize that this was a [br]life of suffering, struggle, and you 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 weren't going to be any good anyway. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 I had to really find a way to believe in[br]myself. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 You know, I think I did it by looking at[br]the paintings in the galleries in Chicago. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 I would go everyday and I would look at 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 this particular DeKooning painting called[br]Excavation, and I would almost like 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 do a dance with it. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Like, oh, he went this way 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 and oh he went that way, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 and oh he smudged this and feeling 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 like the depth of that painting. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 When you look at it from a distance it 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 looks like this roiling boiling pot of [br]paint kind of. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Except the order is in that paint. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 And when you go up to it you begin to see 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 like the layers of it, and I sort of 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 deconstructed the painting 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 and I would go back down to my painting 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 and I would try to do it. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 I never got that good, but it made me 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 start to feel my body and my mind. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 My mind letting my arm make the decision. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 And when you start to get the control then[br]your feelings can start to flow. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 And once that starts to happen, it's [br]like you know, you get on 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 the track and the trains starts moving. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 I just realized this was going to be [br]my life. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 I really need time by myself, and I[br]always have. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 And I think when I was a kid I actually [br]liked to play by myself a lot. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 And that's not saying I don't need [br]people because I do. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 I love the quiet of walking into my studio 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 and looking at my work and then painting, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 and it just feels like of a piece with[br]my whole life in a way. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Having my kids has made me part of the[br]world as an artist and as someone 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 who works in a lot of isolation it's [br]really made me deal with life in 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 a way that I absolutely wouldn't have. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 It's made me have a life, and take my [br]mind off myself. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 That's what they've done for me. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 They'll be more honest with me than [br]anybody else will. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 They'll tell me how they feel. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 And not everybody does that. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 DAISY: Which one do you want to talk [br]about? 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 MURRAY: What, honey? 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 MURRAY: This one, yeah. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 So, what I want to know is, I'm trying to [br]decide whether to put this in the show. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 And I want to know, just tell me exactly[br]what you think of it. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 I just made some big changes in it. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 The drawings are different but this is [br]what sort of comes out from the drawings. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 SOPHIE: I like it. And I think if you- 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 MURRAY: Of course what I wanted you to [br]say was it's great, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 it's good, don't touch it, put it in the [br]show. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 DAISY: But Mom, even if you couldn't, even[br]if you were going to 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 leave everything the way it was you [br]couldn't because it's not like 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 nothing except for that and the chair and [br]the door, it's nothing, and the sun, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 none of it is done. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 I think, I think that it all just- it [br]isn't a bad thing you just, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 the surfaces aren't finished. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 SOPHIE: Are you bored with it? 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 MURRAY: No, I'm very interested in it. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 DAISY: Because you don't ever leave [br]things like this. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 MURRAY: Yeah, no, I'm going to just keep [br]working on it. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 SOPHIE: But maybe that would be [br]interesting not, just leaving it. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 MURAY: No, I can't do that. Daisy's right.[br]You're right, you're right, you're right. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 MURRAY: I think that what I have to do is[br]take out the bloopy forms and re- 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 and just, maybe they will come back and [br]maybe they won't, but- 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 MURRAY: I think I got to take these out [br]for awhile. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 SOPHIE: It might just be nice to see what [br]it looks like when it is just, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 you know, blank. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 DAISY: It might be that they are too [br]much like the curves in the smoke. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 SOPHIE: Oh, yeah! 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 MURRAY: Yeah but then, yeah. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 SOPHIE: I love the smoke. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 I think the smoke is my favorite thing. [br]I think I like this red and the pink. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 MURRAY: But what about the marks inside [br]the roof tops, the triangles. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 It just feels like, it's very [br]descriptive. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 The triangle then becomes the roof, [br]you know what I mean? 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 It's a representation. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 SOPHIE: I mean that's what it is. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 MURRAY: Yeah, ah-hah. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 SOPHIE: That's the chimney, that's [br]the smoke coming out of it, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 that's you know, the little people inside [br]of it- 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 MURRAY: Be quiet! 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 SOPHIE: Of course there is room for [br]interpretation I mean that's what your 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 work does, but you know there is the [br]little people inside that are talking, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 and that is what they are saying [br]inside are little speech bubbles. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 MURRAY: Cartoons, speech bubbles. Ohh, [br]ok. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 DAISY: I thought it was a path. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 SOPHIE: You thought it was a path? 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 DAISY: Hmm-mmm. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 SOPHIE: Oh, it could be a path. See Mom?[br]We still don't know what it is! 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 MURRAY: Ok, that's really good. That's [br]really helpful. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 I think every artist has this, you leave [br]it at night and you come back in 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 the morning and it's gone, like it looks [br]awful. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 And that's sort of when I think, "Why did [br]I go on this journey in the first place?" 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 What am I doing this for? [br]It's just, it's so painful." 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 And then you know, the next morning you're[br]back at it bright-eyed and bushy-tailed 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 like trying again. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 MURRAT (SOT): Ok, so let's move this [br]painting over here. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 MURRAY (SOT): No, don't even hang it up. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 My fantasy is that I would get to a [br]certain point where I would know 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 what I wanted to say, where you were [br]either on this straight line or a road, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 you would never swerve. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 You would just do your work then. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 And that's not the way it is at all. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 You know, get off the path and then [br]get back on again for a while 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 and you trip along and suddenly you [br]stumble and then you're back on again. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 And I don't think that process ever ends. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 MURRAY (SOT): And that height is good. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 More over to the right, center it on the [br]wall. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 MURRAY (SOT): Let's switch this with this. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 MURRAY: When I really know certain things [br]are working for me, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 they make me laugh. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Like oh, this is really silly. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 And I just enjoy that. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 And I think for myself it's part of what [br]gets me through. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 I think it's really very similar to how a 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 kid plays. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 You know, it's like you are in your[br]playroom 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 and you are just picking up these 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 different shapes and throwing them on the[br]wall and then putting them together 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 and seeing what kind of a game you can [br]make out of them. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 I think that's pretty explanatory of what [br]it feels like to make them, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 and very close to the kind of feeling that[br]I want to get out of them, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 and I think I want you to get out of them[br]too.