[Script Info]
Title: 
[Events]
Format: Layer, Start, End, Style, Name, MarginL, MarginR, MarginV, Effect, Text
Dialogue: 0,0:00:00.00,0:00:08.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\i1}rc3 preroll music{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:00:08.37,0:00:13.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Herald: Welcome back on the Chaos-Sound\Nstage. I hope you had a great day so far.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:13.12,0:00:22.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And after the Algorave talk, we are happy\Nto we're happy to host a talk by Andy
Dialogue: 0,0:00:22.60,0:00:30.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Mueller-Maguhn. He is a long-time member\Nof the CCC. Now he is at Wau Holland
Dialogue: 0,0:00:30.80,0:00:37.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Stiftung, and he's also a data journalist.\NAnd today he will tell us a bit about
Dialogue: 0,0:00:38.24,0:00:47.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,things between WikiLeaks and the CIA. And\Nthis talk is some kind of successor for
Dialogue: 0,0:00:48.32,0:00:58.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,talks he gave previously. And but for all\Nthe details, he will tell them by himself.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:58.00,0:01:08.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And yes, welcome Andy. And we're happy to\Nsee what you can tell us. And all the
Dialogue: 0,0:01:09.60,0:01:13.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,interesting details that are in your talk.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:13.05,0:01:20.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Andy: Thank you. OK. Good evening. So, I\Nnamed this talk "When WikiLeaks bumped
Dialogue: 0,0:01:20.48,0:01:27.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,into the CIA operation Kudo exposed". So,\Nexplain a bit later what that is. Just as
Dialogue: 0,0:01:27.60,0:01:36.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a reminder, the hacker community and the\NCCC, even in its bylaws, one of the core
Dialogue: 0,0:01:36.00,0:01:41.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,things has always been information wants\Nto be free. First sentence up the hacker
Dialogue: 0,0:01:41.04,0:01:48.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,ethics brought a small snippet from Wau\Nhimself where you will not hear the sound
Dialogue: 0,0:01:48.16,0:01:55.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,at this moment due to technical reasons,\Nbut where he talked about the hacking of
Dialogue: 0,0:01:55.44,0:02:03.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,society through Freedom of Information. My\Ntalk will have two parts, what happened so
Dialogue: 0,0:02:03.52,0:02:11.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,far and what should be done now. In the\Nfirst part. I just want to refer a little
Dialogue: 0,0:02:11.12,0:02:16.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,bit on the context of what I'm talking\Nabout. So, this is about what happened
Dialogue: 0,0:02:16.56,0:02:23.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,surrounding WikiLeaks in the context of\Nthe CIA and the United States government.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:24.48,0:02:31.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Yeah, getting on them. I had two talks\Nabout similar topics already in 2018 and
Dialogue: 0,0:02:31.60,0:02:36.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,2019 at the ..., you know, unfortunately\Nalso. No, that was still the last real
Dialogue: 0,0:02:36.72,0:02:42.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Congress. I talked about the technical\Naspects of the surveillance. And you will
Dialogue: 0,0:02:42.16,0:02:48.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,see one image that I needed to copy from\Nthat again. Then last year, I talked a
Dialogue: 0,0:02:48.08,0:02:52.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,little bit about the CIA versus WikiLeaks\Nto intimidation tactics. That was more
Dialogue: 0,0:02:52.88,0:02:58.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,what happened to me and other surrounding\NWikiLeaks. Now, in the meantime, this
Dialogue: 0,0:02:58.80,0:03:03.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,year, end of September, came a very\Nimportant article in this context on Yahoo
Dialogue: 0,0:03:03.52,0:03:10.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,News, that seems to have been doing that.\NSome guys have been hired there, who
Dialogue: 0,0:03:10.40,0:03:17.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,previously worked for Newsweek and others.\NThe article, from 26 of September, is
Dialogue: 0,0:03:17.36,0:03:23.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,called Kidnapping, Assassination at the\NLondon Shootout, inside the Secret CIA
Dialogue: 0,0:03:23.04,0:03:29.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Secret War Plans against WikiLeaks, and it\Ndid reveal quite some things. It finally
Dialogue: 0,0:03:29.76,0:03:35.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,referred to my talk. It links even to the\Nvideo of my talk. It takes some quotes
Dialogue: 0,0:03:35.76,0:03:42.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,from it. It confirms a lot of it and adds\Na lot. But it also frames and was framing.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:42.96,0:03:51.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I mean, there is some disinformation\Nthat's poisoning that otherwise very
Dialogue: 0,0:03:51.20,0:03:56.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,helpful article to understand what the\Nfuck was going on. So, what I'm trying to
Dialogue: 0,0:03:56.32,0:04:02.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,do today is to reconstruct the whole thing\Na little bit to reframe it and help
Dialogue: 0,0:04:02.56,0:04:07.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,everybody to understand a little bit what\Nhappened here. The Yahoo article
Dialogue: 0,0:04:08.48,0:04:15.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,rightfully distinguishes the timeframe of\Nthe interaction, so to say, between the
Dialogue: 0,0:04:15.04,0:04:21.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,United States government and WikiLeaks\Ninto four to five timeframes. One of them
Dialogue: 0,0:04:21.92,0:04:27.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,at the beginning of the WikiLeaks project.\NOr, let's say, before Snowden, so before
Dialogue: 0,0:04:27.68,0:04:36.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,mid-2013, the Obama administration\Nauthored the diplomatic cables had been
Dialogue: 0,0:04:36.32,0:04:42.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,published by WikiLeaks, Afghan / Iraq War\NLogs and so on were out. They had the view
Dialogue: 0,0:04:42.80,0:04:48.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that as long as some entity or some people\Nare publishing, are engaging and
Dialogue: 0,0:04:48.24,0:04:53.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,publishing it in journalistic activity,\Nthere's nothing they can do because First
Dialogue: 0,0:04:53.60,0:04:57.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Amendment of the United States\NConstitution talks about the freedom of
Dialogue: 0,0:04:58.96,0:05:06.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,publishing the freedom of speech, and a\Nfreedom that does include journalistic
Dialogue: 0,0:05:06.48,0:05:17.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,activity of all kinds. After the Snowden,\Nnot revelations, but the fact that Edward
Dialogue: 0,0:05:18.64,0:05:26.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Snowden was getting from Hong Kong on the\Nway to somewhere else, but he got to
Dialogue: 0,0:05:26.08,0:05:34.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Moscow with the help of a WikiLeaks\Neditorial member, therefore in acting in
Dialogue: 0,0:05:34.24,0:05:40.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,what you could call journalistic source\Nprotection. However, that brought the U.S.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:40.32,0:05:44.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,government to a slightly different view of\NWikiLeaks. It didn't really like it, so
Dialogue: 0,0:05:45.44,0:05:50.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Obama allowed the intelligence community\Nto prioritize collection WikiLeaks, search
Dialogue: 0,0:05:50.40,0:05:55.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,warrants, subpeonas, US National Security\NLetters. So here we're not talking about,
Dialogue: 0,0:05:55.92,0:06:00.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as far as the article mentions, about the\Nlegal investigation yet. This intelligence
Dialogue: 0,0:06:00.72,0:06:06.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,work to, like they allowed them to get on\Nthem? They also, in the context of the
Dialogue: 0,0:06:06.88,0:06:11.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Snowden revelations, now, where it wasn't\NWikiLeaks, it was Glenn Greenwald and
Dialogue: 0,0:06:11.60,0:06:18.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Laura Poitras who had been given by Edward\NSnowden the material, and they published
Dialogue: 0,0:06:18.16,0:06:24.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the material together with Guardian, Der\NSpiegel, the others. I was also involved
Dialogue: 0,0:06:24.16,0:06:30.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with the Spiegel I should disclose.\NHowever, they tried to relabel, not only
Dialogue: 0,0:06:30.64,0:06:37.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WikiLeaks, but also Glenn, Laura and\Nothers from journalists away to like
Dialogue: 0,0:06:37.44,0:06:43.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,information brokers. They tried all kinds\Nof definitions to circumvent the
Dialogue: 0,0:06:43.92,0:06:51.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,protection of the United States\NConstitution, you could say. That went not
Dialogue: 0,0:06:51.20,0:06:56.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that far. At least I have no actively\Nknowledge of a criminal prosecution
Dialogue: 0,0:06:57.84,0:07:02.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,running against Laura and Glenn. However,\Nthere were for sure intelligence
Dialogue: 0,0:07:02.40,0:07:07.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,activities that they also reported on that\Neverybody who was involved in the
Dialogue: 0,0:07:07.28,0:07:13.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,publications, as you might know from\Nhistory, the Guardian was later forced to
Dialogue: 0,0:07:13.04,0:07:17.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,even destroy the computers where they had\Nput this Snowden material and so on. So,
Dialogue: 0,0:07:17.52,0:07:27.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that was quite some things going on. In\N2016, the next, yeah, like milestone in
Dialogue: 0,0:07:27.28,0:07:31.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the change of the relations between the\NUnited States government, WikiLeaks, to
Dialogue: 0,0:07:31.44,0:07:39.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,say it nicely, was the publication of the\NDNC emails that by the definition of the
Dialogue: 0,0:07:39.44,0:07:48.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,National Security Agency, like they said,\Nthis was Guccifer 2.0 was the Russian
Dialogue: 0,0:07:48.56,0:07:55.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,military intelligence at GRU and that the\Nwhole publication was with the intention
Dialogue: 0,0:07:55.76,0:08:03.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to hurt the interests of the United\NStates. This now is a first point where we
Dialogue: 0,0:08:03.20,0:08:07.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,could sit back from our European\Nperspective for a little bit and say, wait
Dialogue: 0,0:08:07.04,0:08:13.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a moment. This was about leaking. I mean,\Nthis was leaked emails. Or, however, let's
Dialogue: 0,0:08:13.12,0:08:19.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,say it was emails that somehow got leaked,\Nobtained or otherwise, but in any way,
Dialogue: 0,0:08:19.36,0:08:25.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WikiLeaks published them. What the\Ndiscussion was about was how Hillary
Dialogue: 0,0:08:25.92,0:08:32.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Clinton had treated Bernie Sanders as the\Nother candidate of the Democratic Party,
Dialogue: 0,0:08:33.36,0:08:40.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and here obviously did not make it. She\Nmade it. So, this we could call this
Dialogue: 0,0:08:40.48,0:08:46.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,exposing the facts in the public interest.\NBut as I said, the United States, at least
Dialogue: 0,0:08:46.08,0:08:51.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,National Security Agency and others seem\Nto have agreed that this was not intended
Dialogue: 0,0:08:51.68,0:08:55.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to harm the United States, not what\NHillary Clinton did, but what WikiLeaks
Dialogue: 0,0:08:55.60,0:09:03.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,did in this publication. I think it's\Nimportant that we distinguish between how
Dialogue: 0,0:09:03.04,0:09:08.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we evaluate these things and how the US\Ngovernment puts this into different
Dialogue: 0,0:09:08.80,0:09:16.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,baskets or categories. However, then it\Ngot much more wild, when WikiLeaks started
Dialogue: 0,0:09:16.88,0:09:23.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,at the beginning of 2017 to publish, with\Nthe so-called full seven series, documents
Dialogue: 0,0:09:23.52,0:09:29.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,from the Central Intelligence Agency from\Nthe CIA. Mike Pompeo was in charge of it.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:29.52,0:09:34.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I did talk about this at length, and I\Nwant to repeat this last year, so he got
Dialogue: 0,0:09:34.08,0:09:40.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,very upset personally because he was also\Npotentially personal responsible for it.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:40.64,0:09:48.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, It was under his watch, so to say.\NHowever, the framing aspect of the article
Dialogue: 0,0:09:49.28,0:09:56.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,are worth having a brief look. The what\Nhappened this year was so sad that the key
Dialogue: 0,0:09:56.96,0:10:04.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,witness of the prosecution Icelandic guy\Ncalled Sigurdor Thordarson made it public
Dialogue: 0,0:10:04.24,0:10:09.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that actually he lied to the FBI and that\Nthey fabricated part of the evidence based
Dialogue: 0,0:10:09.60,0:10:15.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on his lies. Also, they could have\Nverified things. He later even was
Dialogue: 0,0:10:15.20,0:10:22.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,imprisoned for his multiple illegal acts,\Nand the Icelandic government saw it as
Dialogue: 0,0:10:22.32,0:10:27.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,reason enough to declare him a danger to\Nsociety and therefore lock him up. And
Dialogue: 0,0:10:27.52,0:10:32.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that's not happening that easily in a\Ncountry like Iceland who normally people
Dialogue: 0,0:10:32.96,0:10:39.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,are very calm and down to earth. However,\Nthe article came just after, a few weeks
Dialogue: 0,0:10:39.76,0:10:47.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,after, the publications on this fabricated\Nevidence. And it's fair to say that the
Dialogue: 0,0:10:47.76,0:10:55.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,gravity of the Yahoo article was a lot\Nhigher and a lot more was discussed than
Dialogue: 0,0:10:55.04,0:11:02.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about the fake evidence of the key witness\Nand so on. However, one other aspect that
Dialogue: 0,0:11:02.64,0:11:11.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,was in the Yahoo article was a thing that\Nis, from my reading, and I've talked to
Dialogue: 0,0:11:11.04,0:11:16.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,many people, there was no evidence for\Nthis whatsoever. The Yahoo article claimed
Dialogue: 0,0:11:16.56,0:11:22.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that there was the Russian government also\Nhaving like kind of officers in front of
Dialogue: 0,0:11:22.24,0:11:29.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the Ecuadorian embassy or in the immediate\Nsurrounding, preparing to help Julian to
Dialogue: 0,0:11:29.52,0:11:33.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,evacuate him, so to say, from England to\Nsneak him out, as the article says.,
Dialogue: 0,0:11:34.40,0:11:39.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Russian intel preparing to sneak Assange\Nout of the UK. And this is a little bit
Dialogue: 0,0:11:39.92,0:11:47.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,wild and it's double wild when you or when\None looks at how the involvement of the
Dialogue: 0,0:11:47.60,0:11:52.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Russian government, how that upsets\NAmerican people, the American media and so
Dialogue: 0,0:11:52.24,0:11:58.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on. This is such a polarized environment\Nwhere the moment the Russian government is
Dialogue: 0,0:11:58.08,0:12:02.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,declared to be involved, it changes\Neverything. What's happened really here
Dialogue: 0,0:12:02.72,0:12:09.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with something different and that is that\NJulian had, in cooperation and in
Dialogue: 0,0:12:09.04,0:12:14.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,coordination with the Ecuadorian\Ngovernment, found a way to legally leave
Dialogue: 0,0:12:14.32,0:12:20.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the embassy and the United Kingdom by\Nbecoming first an Ecuadorian citizen, then
Dialogue: 0,0:12:20.96,0:12:27.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,an Ecuadorian diplomat, and then in theory\Nhe would have been able to leave the UK
Dialogue: 0,0:12:27.04,0:12:32.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because a diplomat on the way to a\Ndifferent working place has, under Vienna,
Dialogue: 0,0:12:32.08,0:12:39.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,diplomatic assurances, is immune from any\Nkind of interference. However, the article
Dialogue: 0,0:12:40.96,0:12:47.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,does reveal some aspects of what happened.\NFor example, the kidnapping plans, the
Dialogue: 0,0:12:47.84,0:12:53.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,assassination plans that the US government\Nconsidered the CIA played through ways to
Dialogue: 0,0:12:54.16,0:13:00.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,kill him in the embassy, to poison him, to\Nkidnap him from there. This kind of
Dialogue: 0,0:13:00.24,0:13:05.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,extreme acts did not happen, and the\Narticle claims that, you know, justice
Dialogue: 0,0:13:05.44,0:13:11.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,prevailed. White House lawyers had doubts.\NThe National Security Council and the
Dialogue: 0,0:13:11.20,0:13:19.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,heads of the Senate and House Intelligence\NCommittees ensured that this wild ideas
Dialogue: 0,0:13:19.60,0:13:24.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because they were not compatible with the\Nlegal framework, not even with that of the
Dialogue: 0,0:13:24.48,0:13:30.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,United States, that that did not happen.\NSo, the article gives you kind of this
Dialogue: 0,0:13:31.52,0:13:36.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,American song melody of, yeah, we had some\Nwild things at the CIA going on, but you
Dialogue: 0,0:13:36.64,0:13:41.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,know, we are a democracy and we stopped\Nit. However, there were some actions that
Dialogue: 0,0:13:41.68,0:13:47.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,where, according to the article and the\Nwitnesses and lawyers I talked to, well
Dialogue: 0,0:13:47.20,0:13:51.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,caught out, extensive spying on WikiLeaks\Nassociates dealing with electronic
Dialogue: 0,0:13:51.36,0:13:58.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,devices. Then there were things there we\Ncould talk about, like the article claims
Dialogue: 0,0:13:58.08,0:14:05.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that, to what was also carried out, sowing\Ndiscord among the group's members. So now,
Dialogue: 0,0:14:05.60,0:14:11.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,if anyone of you is longer than a few\Nweeks in a CCC- like hacker club or
Dialogue: 0,0:14:12.48,0:14:17.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,working for a journalist organization or\Nworking in any other group. I mean,
Dialogue: 0,0:14:17.12,0:14:21.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,according to my little experience, there's\Nquite a fight-club atmosphere out there
Dialogue: 0,0:14:21.92,0:14:26.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for a while, and I'm personally, I\Nwouldn't always be able to distinguish
Dialogue: 0,0:14:26.64,0:14:31.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,between is this now a CIA operated, you\Nknow, group fight? Or It's just normal
Dialogue: 0,0:14:32.48,0:14:36.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,group dynamics. People don't like each\Nother, people having disputes, people
Dialogue: 0,0:14:36.56,0:14:42.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,having different ideas how to do things\Nand so on. So, I would suggest you take
Dialogue: 0,0:14:42.64,0:14:49.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,this kind of claim with a grain of salt.\NNot every dispute among a group has been
Dialogue: 0,0:14:49.12,0:14:55.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,created by the CIA. Also, I'm very\Ngenerous on bashing them. However, they
Dialogue: 0,0:14:55.52,0:15:04.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,also talked at some point they changed the\Nwhole context of Julian and WikiLeaks from
Dialogue: 0,0:15:04.83,0:15:10.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a target of collection to target of\Ndestruction. Well, for sure, some things
Dialogue: 0,0:15:10.40,0:15:17.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,happened there, but this is not what I can\Ngo into detail. So far, no detailed report
Dialogue: 0,0:15:17.76,0:15:26.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on it. However, the project I talked about\Nthat Julian would get legally out of the
Dialogue: 0,0:15:26.44,0:15:33.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,embassy as a member of Ecuadorian\Ndiplomatic staff is coming together in a
Dialogue: 0,0:15:33.43,0:15:40.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,very it's like the most critical time\Nframe also, according to the article, and
Dialogue: 0,0:15:40.15,0:15:45.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that we were able, that we were going\Nthrough with the lawyers to log files of
Dialogue: 0,0:15:45.76,0:15:51.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the embassy security service, the videos\Nand so on. So, we have been able to
Dialogue: 0,0:15:51.10,0:15:57.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,identify the timeframe and the timeframe\Nis the 16th of December 2017 until the
Dialogue: 0,0:15:57.80,0:16:03.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,26th. This is the most critical timeframe,\Nbecause, around the 16th, he was
Dialogue: 0,0:16:03.96,0:16:09.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,officially not only declared a diplomat,\Nthere was a publication in the Ecuadorean
Dialogue: 0,0:16:09.43,0:16:16.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,like a legal "judge set" or what it's\Ncalled. So like the legal publication in
Dialogue: 0,0:16:16.29,0:16:22.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Ecuador to have him declared. He had,\Naround the 21st, the head of the
Dialogue: 0,0:16:22.07,0:16:27.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Ecuadorian intelligence visiting him. So,\Nthat means he also had the diplomatic
Dialogue: 0,0:16:27.85,0:16:32.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,passport. It was fully, formally done.\NThere was a discussion of the process and
Dialogue: 0,0:16:32.59,0:16:39.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,this meeting on the 21st I had mentioned\Nit in my talk last year was the most high
Dialogue: 0,0:16:39.57,0:16:46.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,priority conversation that ever happened\Nin the embassy, at least as far as we know
Dialogue: 0,0:16:46.40,0:16:52.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,from the witnesses of the security service\Nwho later revealed to the court that they
Dialogue: 0,0:16:52.35,0:16:57.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,had been, yeah, instructed on behalf of\Nthe CIA to do other things than to protect
Dialogue: 0,0:16:57.44,0:17:02.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the embassy, but to spy on Julian. So this\Nmeeting on the 21st was extremely
Dialogue: 0,0:17:02.22,0:17:09.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,important to the Americans, and we do know\Nroughly that the whole story ended through
Dialogue: 0,0:17:09.44,0:17:16.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,various means, but mainly to pressure on\Nthe on the Ecuadorian government in Quito,
Dialogue: 0,0:17:16.93,0:17:23.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in Ecuador, around the 26th when they\Nactually called the plan off because the
Dialogue: 0,0:17:23.58,0:17:28.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Americans knew about every detail,\Nincluding how he would get out of the
Dialogue: 0,0:17:28.88,0:17:35.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,embassy, in what type of car and so on.\NAnd they also then at some point denounced
Dialogue: 0,0:17:35.20,0:17:43.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,his diplomatic status after pressure from\Nthe United States government. And in this
Dialogue: 0,0:17:43.43,0:17:50.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,time frame, I make here a little bit of an\Nevent matrix, which is completely
Dialogue: 0,0:17:50.95,0:17:56.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,incomplete. I have to say this many things\Nmissing for legal, for other reasons. You
Dialogue: 0,0:17:56.83,0:18:01.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,know, some things are just too wild. The\NU.S. government, for example, would never
Dialogue: 0,0:18:01.46,0:18:05.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,break into a European law office, right?\NWe can. That's bullshit. That's conspiracy
Dialogue: 0,0:18:05.70,0:18:11.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,stuff. They don't do these things. They,\Nof course, comply with the law. However,
Dialogue: 0,0:18:11.59,0:18:18.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we have some events that are funny and fit\Nwell into our picture, for example, that
Dialogue: 0,0:18:18.88,0:18:24.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,after on the Saturday, the lawyers from\NSpain and England were sitting together
Dialogue: 0,0:18:24.93,0:18:29.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with Julian that two days later, in\Npreparation of that meeting on the 21st
Dialogue: 0,0:18:29.74,0:18:35.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,came the fire protection service into the\Nembassy. And those who seen my talk last
Dialogue: 0,0:18:35.29,0:18:40.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,year know that one of the fire\Nextinguishers placed in the meeting room
Dialogue: 0,0:18:40.47,0:18:47.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,had the main role for holding a bug.\NHowever, I'm coming to that than we have
Dialogue: 0,0:18:47.21,0:18:54.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,this observation that every day in this\Ntime frame, there was a silver gray Ford
Dialogue: 0,0:18:54.88,0:19:02.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,car with sometimes two, sometimes three,\Nsometimes more people sitting outside the
Dialogue: 0,0:19:02.59,0:19:09.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,embassy, seeming obviously to wait for\Ninstructions. Something to happen. I'm
Dialogue: 0,0:19:09.40,0:19:16.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,coming to that and we have other things\Ngoing on at that timeframe, that kind of
Dialogue: 0,0:19:16.39,0:19:23.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,fit into the frame. So on the, ... I\Nselected three events to talk about them a
Dialogue: 0,0:19:23.07,0:19:28.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,few minutes. The first is this fire\Nextinguisher. 19:26 Here you see it and in
Dialogue: 0,0:19:28.29,0:19:32.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on the right picture, you're seeing the\Nblack bottom of the fire extinguisher.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:32.93,0:19:37.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That's where they had a magnetic little\Nbox with an audio microphone, I mean,
Dialogue: 0,0:19:37.89,0:19:44.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,audio bug in it, that seemed to have not\Nonly recorded, but also transmits the
Dialogue: 0,0:19:44.36,0:19:52.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,conversations, in life, to the American\Nintelligence outside. Funnily, this, ...
Dialogue: 0,0:19:52.75,0:20:01.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on the 18th comes a company, not even from\NLondon, the Iceland Fire Protection
Dialogue: 0,0:20:01.36,0:20:07.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Limited, a guy and goes into all the rooms\Nin the embassy to check the fire
Dialogue: 0,0:20:07.46,0:20:13.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,extinguishers. Now, according to the\Nlawyers, there had been intensive
Dialogue: 0,0:20:13.03,0:20:19.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,discussions with the employees, and David\NMorales, the owner of U.C. Global, the
Dialogue: 0,0:20:19.59,0:20:24.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,company that was originally hired to\Nprotect the embassy, is known to have
Dialogue: 0,0:20:24.84,0:20:29.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,talked to his people and emailed them,\Nmentioning that the Americans want also
Dialogue: 0,0:20:29.70,0:20:36.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that all the other rooms at some point to\Nbe bugged and want access to the fire
Dialogue: 0,0:20:36.12,0:20:41.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,extinguishers. We don't know exactly what\Nhappened in that discussion to the last
Dialogue: 0,0:20:41.86,0:20:49.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,detail, but we know that on the 18th came\Nthis British company. And this is a little
Dialogue: 0,0:20:49.28,0:20:55.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,bit crass, and I think there will be many\Nother embassies of other countries who
Dialogue: 0,0:20:55.20,0:21:00.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,will be interested to check if they don't\Nare maybe serviced by the same company.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:02.40,0:21:10.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Now, the other nice event that I selected\Nis the night from the 23rd to the 24th.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:10.32,0:21:17.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, the very morning, early morning hours\Non the 24th of December morning, Christmas
Dialogue: 0,0:21:17.44,0:21:24.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,morning, so to say, where you have the\Nthree guys sitting in the car and on the
Dialogue: 0,0:21:24.08,0:21:28.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,back seat on the right side, someone reads\Nthe briefing notes, I will show you the,
Dialogue: 0,0:21:30.40,0:21:36.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,oops. Don't tell me this. Hopefully it\Nworks. OK, great. The video doesn't work.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:37.52,0:21:44.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'm sorry. I can't show you the video\Ntoday. Maybe courtesy of the CIA, however.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:45.60,0:21:50.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, the guy in the back seat browses\Nthrough the briefing notes, and we have
Dialogue: 0,0:21:50.16,0:21:58.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,been able to at least read part of what\Nthey have been, ... what this briefing
Dialogue: 0,0:21:58.40,0:22:04.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,notes say. It says this page that we have\Nbeen able to read mostly was in the event
Dialogue: 0,0:22:04.64,0:22:10.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of loss of camera coverage. So, there was\Na process to be established when the
Dialogue: 0,0:22:10.24,0:22:14.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,surveillance cameras in the embassy\Nwouldn't deliver pictures anymore and the
Dialogue: 0,0:22:14.80,0:22:19.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,guys outside a sitting partly, according\Nto the article, the British police guys
Dialogue: 0,0:22:19.84,0:22:27.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with guns, eight people, maybe without\Nguns, would be ready to jump into the
Dialogue: 0,0:22:27.12,0:22:33.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,scene. Crash diplomatic cars, shoot into\Ntires of cars that would try to bring
Dialogue: 0,0:22:33.60,0:22:40.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Julian away, and so on, indicates which\Nway he would walk out. And so there's a
Dialogue: 0,0:22:40.00,0:22:45.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,few key words here that I just want to\Nemphasize in the event of lots of camera
Dialogue: 0,0:22:45.52,0:22:50.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,coverage standards, then there is talking\Nabout something called GS7 that might be
Dialogue: 0,0:22:50.56,0:22:56.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,code-word for CIA or something different.\NMET is clearly the Metropolitan Police.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:57.12,0:23:02.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That's a normal acronym in England, and\Nthey talk about the context of the
Dialogue: 0,0:23:02.72,0:23:09.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,operation Kudo. So we looked up the word\NKudo. Kudo is something saying roughly
Dialogue: 0,0:23:09.84,0:23:18.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,like friendship. So, we have to assume\Nthis was a joint British American
Dialogue: 0,0:23:18.08,0:23:23.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,operation, and that's exactly what the\NYahoo article describes. However, what it
Dialogue: 0,0:23:23.28,0:23:29.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,does not describe is the legal\Nimplication, because this could well be
Dialogue: 0,0:23:30.56,0:23:35.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,one of the most or best well documented\Nbreaches of the Vienna Convention,
Dialogue: 0,0:23:36.56,0:23:43.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,basically saying that the premises of the\Nmission shall be inviolable, which is,
Dialogue: 0,0:23:44.72,0:23:48.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,normally means that you shall not bug, you\Nshall not, you know, put surveillance
Dialogue: 0,0:23:48.96,0:23:53.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,devices, cameras, hidden cameras or\Nwhatever. You shall not hack into the
Dialogue: 0,0:23:53.28,0:24:00.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,camera surveillance system, of an embassy,\Nasked to host state and so on and so that
Dialogue: 0,0:24:00.40,0:24:04.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,intelligence do it and that the CIA was\Ndoing it. In the case of the Ecuadorian
Dialogue: 0,0:24:04.80,0:24:10.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,embassy, it's already part of a Spanish\Nlawsuit. However, the dimension is a
Dialogue: 0,0:24:10.24,0:24:14.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,little bit different, as the British\Npolice seems to have access have had
Dialogue: 0,0:24:14.72,0:24:20.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,access to that video surveillance, and\Nthat is potentially legally different
Dialogue: 0,0:24:20.32,0:24:26.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,thing. That will be subject to some legal\Nsteps going on in the next weeks and
Dialogue: 0,0:24:26.64,0:24:37.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,months. The third event I selected for\Nrelaxation issues is on the last day. You
Dialogue: 0,0:24:37.04,0:24:42.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,see here two police officers carrying an\Nastonishing amount of eight cups of coffee
Dialogue: 0,0:24:43.52,0:24:51.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for a relatively small police car. That\Ngives you an idea what was going on there.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:51.60,0:25:00.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The British police being prepared to set\Naside the conference room is about in the
Dialogue: 0,0:25:00.00,0:25:06.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,area where there was a trash bag on the\Nleft side is so giving you an idea of how
Dialogue: 0,0:25:06.96,0:25:13.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,intense the British police was also on the\Nscene outside. So, what is currently
Dialogue: 0,0:25:13.76,0:25:19.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,happening with this and a lot of other\Nmaterial? Is, well, checking the violation
Dialogue: 0,0:25:19.60,0:25:28.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the Vienna Convention then parsing\Ntogether many of the events and observing
Dialogue: 0,0:25:28.08,0:25:33.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,patterns and trying to see those patterns\Nat other places. As we, of course, still
Dialogue: 0,0:25:33.84,0:25:37.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,do not know the full scope of the\Noperations of the CIA and other
Dialogue: 0,0:25:38.24,0:25:43.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,intelligence agencies against WikiLeaks.\NThis is just the tip of the iceberg, what
Dialogue: 0,0:25:43.36,0:25:50.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,happened in London, but also to see where\Nother journalists were other citizens,
Dialogue: 0,0:25:50.00,0:25:54.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,where other governments, organizations,\Nwhatever were may be targeted with same or
Dialogue: 0,0:25:54.96,0:26:02.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,similar ways and methods. So this brings\Nme to the second part of my little talk.
Dialogue: 0,0:26:03.44,0:26:10.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The question what needs to be done? So,\Nand I tried to first invite you to a
Dialogue: 0,0:26:10.06,0:26:18.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,little reflection because, as some of you\Nmight know, Julian Assange presented the
Dialogue: 0,0:26:18.28,0:26:25.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WikiLeaks project in the CCC Congress, end\Nof 2009. If I recall correctly, he made
Dialogue: 0,0:26:25.34,0:26:32.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,another talk in 2010. This was very much a\Nproject of the hacker community and it was
Dialogue: 0,0:26:32.08,0:26:37.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,highly welcomed at the time because it was\Nlike combining the idea of Freedom of
Dialogue: 0,0:26:37.29,0:26:42.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Information, which had always been and\Nsharing information which had always been
Dialogue: 0,0:26:42.04,0:26:48.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the spirit of the hacker scene with those\Nof journalists and democratic, yeah, think
Dialogue: 0,0:26:48.56,0:26:54.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,tanks to ensure that we would have\Nactually an informed society, not just
Dialogue: 0,0:26:54.73,0:27:00.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,this very weird concept of an information\Nsociety which does not really say anything
Dialogue: 0,0:27:00.26,0:27:05.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,between the relationship between\Ninformation and society. But an informed
Dialogue: 0,0:27:05.08,0:27:10.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,society is a clear picture, I think. And\Ntherefore, the better wording. So, the
Dialogue: 0,0:27:10.00,0:27:14.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,other question is, of course, is what?\NWhat does this whole thing? This what we
Dialogue: 0,0:27:14.37,0:27:20.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,have been reading in the article and what\Nwe're now a step by step here revealing
Dialogue: 0,0:27:20.60,0:27:26.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and starting to understand. What does it\Ntell us about the United States
Dialogue: 0,0:27:26.30,0:27:34.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,government's prosecution, of DOJ, Pompeo,\Nthe CIA, all these people? How (competent)
Dialogue: 0,0:27:34.13,0:27:41.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,are they really to decide to society that\Nis based on an informed electorate, like
Dialogue: 0,0:27:41.77,0:27:48.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the people making decisions based on\Nknowledge and voting based on knowing
Dialogue: 0,0:27:48.08,0:27:54.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,what's going on? And that's slightly\Ndisturbing, I think what we what this
Dialogue: 0,0:27:54.13,0:28:01.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,thought brings us to. So, here's my little\Nideas, and then I will just come with some
Dialogue: 0,0:28:01.77,0:28:09.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,questions to the audience. So, yeah, what\Ncan we do and what maybe should we do?
Dialogue: 0,0:28:09.16,0:28:14.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This is, here, just some ideas of mine.\NWhile we could, of course, hope that the
Dialogue: 0,0:28:14.34,0:28:19.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,United States, the people of the United\NStates, the government of the United
Dialogue: 0,0:28:19.55,0:28:25.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,States would understand that core\Ndemocratic value was attacked here when
Dialogue: 0,0:28:25.84,0:28:34.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,going against Assange, WikiLeaks and so\Non. So in theory, we should, we could hope
Dialogue: 0,0:28:34.19,0:28:41.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that the self-healing or the self\Nunderstanding and mechanisms of the United
Dialogue: 0,0:28:41.66,0:28:47.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,States society will stop this madness\Nbecause they will see, Hey, wait a moment,
Dialogue: 0,0:28:47.48,0:28:53.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,this is our constitutional First Amendment\Nthat we are attacking here indirectly. And
Dialogue: 0,0:28:53.83,0:28:59.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,if we don't have like the publishers,\Nright, journalists and publishers right to
Dialogue: 0,0:28:59.71,0:29:06.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,inform the public, then we have nothing.\NWell, the second, obviously, level would
Dialogue: 0,0:29:06.63,0:29:15.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,be to dissolve the CIA. Yeah, I mean,\NKennedy had this idea before, shatter it
Dialogue: 0,0:29:15.52,0:29:23.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the wind and so on. But I don't know\Nhow at least this shall continue with that
Dialogue: 0,0:29:23.34,0:29:30.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,budget, with the information operations,\Nwith the influence operations, where
Dialogue: 0,0:29:30.55,0:29:37.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,actually "wag the dog" is just a tiny\Nlittle aspect of it. Because the question
Dialogue: 0,0:29:37.48,0:29:43.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is how shall a democratic government work\Nas long as there's an intelligence agency
Dialogue: 0,0:29:43.37,0:29:48.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that has all the knowledge about every\Nperson involved in all the little
Dialogue: 0,0:29:48.42,0:29:54.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,compromat boxes and the aspect of how to\Nnudge and how to influence and how to
Dialogue: 0,0:29:54.45,0:30:00.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,manipulate and so on? Well, and then the\Nthird aspect outside the United States,
Dialogue: 0,0:30:00.09,0:30:05.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,here in Europe, is of course, the question\Nof how can we immunize those people,
Dialogue: 0,0:30:05.78,0:30:11.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,entities governmental organization and so\Non where it still seems possible to
Dialogue: 0,0:30:11.19,0:30:17.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,understand that this is core, that\Njournalism and the right to inform the
Dialogue: 0,0:30:17.21,0:30:23.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,public by making also information and\Nmaterial public that governments,
Dialogue: 0,0:30:23.26,0:30:29.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,corporations or whoever would like to keep\Nsecret? But if that documents are playing
Dialogue: 0,0:30:29.26,0:30:35.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a role in informing the public in the\Npublic interest and it must be allowed to
Dialogue: 0,0:30:35.24,0:30:42.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,make it public, and that was what's called\Nthe Fourth Estate or the right of the
Dialogue: 0,0:30:42.48,0:30:49.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,press to inform the public. Yeah, how can\Nwe do that? That of course, more a
Dialogue: 0,0:30:49.08,0:30:55.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,question. And and here's my list of\Nquestions that I will want to address to
Dialogue: 0,0:30:55.12,0:31:02.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the audience. We should have 20 minutes\Nand maybe a few seconds for a discussion
Dialogue: 0,0:31:02.41,0:31:10.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of this. So guys, how do we get Assange\Nout of jail? Ladies and gentlemen, how do
Dialogue: 0,0:31:10.15,0:31:15.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we do it? How do we stop the\Ncriminalization of journalism and those
Dialogue: 0,0:31:15.12,0:31:20.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who ensure access to information in the\Npublic? Is this in order to achieve an
Dialogue: 0,0:31:20.25,0:31:26.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,informed society? That's our duty I fear.\NHow do we ensure a value driven community?
Dialogue: 0,0:31:26.68,0:31:34.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, as everybody knows, the CCC had always\Ndifferent factions. The political and the
Dialogue: 0,0:31:34.05,0:31:39.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,technical factions then came at some point\Na party, the event and hedonism aspects
Dialogue: 0,0:31:39.68,0:31:46.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,all together. And we had a great fun time.\NBut I'm not sure that we also took care of
Dialogue: 0,0:31:46.48,0:31:52.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,ensuring that we are value driven\Ncommunity all the way. I mean, when we
Dialogue: 0,0:31:52.65,0:31:59.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,look at this year and the NSA methods\Nthat's obviously some kind of atmosphere
Dialogue: 0,0:31:59.54,0:32:05.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,between those who work in the I.T.\Nsecurity industry and those who maybe then
Dialogue: 0,0:32:05.35,0:32:10.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,take offers from the intelligence\Ncommunity. And that's not the spirit of
Dialogue: 0,0:32:10.49,0:32:16.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the hacker ethics, and that's not just the\Nspirit of the CCC, and that's not the
Dialogue: 0,0:32:16.56,0:32:23.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,spirit of an informed society that people\Nwith money who instrumentalized technology
Dialogue: 0,0:32:23.64,0:32:29.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,people and. You don't have to like look at\Nthe CIA as the most crass, may be entity.
Dialogue: 0,0:32:29.80,0:32:36.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It starts with the so-called Open\NTechnology Fund. I mean, we had various
Dialogue: 0,0:32:36.66,0:32:43.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,years the ability to observe how the Tor\Nproject had its issues between the two
Dialogue: 0,0:32:43.88,0:32:49.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,worlds of the US government having this\Nand that ideas and our community having
Dialogue: 0,0:32:49.24,0:32:54.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,other ideas of how anonymization works.\NAnd I'm not sure we can say that our
Dialogue: 0,0:32:54.96,0:33:02.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,values have been preserved and we have\Nensured that OTF finance projects do not
Dialogue: 0,0:33:02.65,0:33:09.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,serve just some funny governmental\Ninterest. And when it was relabeled partly
Dialogue: 0,0:33:09.49,0:33:17.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,from internet freedom to circumvention\Nmeasures that I think gave already some
Dialogue: 0,0:33:17.18,0:33:24.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,ideas on what could go wrong if, yeah,\Ngovernments start to fund projects of the
Dialogue: 0,0:33:24.88,0:33:31.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so-called hacker scene. Yeah, so, this is\Nmy questions to you guys. How do we get
Dialogue: 0,0:33:31.98,0:33:39.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,him out? How do we ensure our society\Nstays intact and democratic? And how do
Dialogue: 0,0:33:39.27,0:33:47.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we, as a scene, avoid to be corrupted by\Ngovernmental money and funny interests?
Dialogue: 0,0:33:47.09,0:33:55.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I hope the moderation cannot take over\Nand provide some answers from the
Dialogue: 0,0:33:55.32,0:33:58.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,audience.
Dialogue: 0,0:33:58.78,0:34:07.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Herald: All right, thank you very much,\NAndy, for your talk. Let's see how this
Dialogue: 0,0:34:07.53,0:34:14.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,will work. Thank you, also, for your\Nquestions to the audience.
Dialogue: 0,0:34:14.52,0:34:21.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Andy: I will try, in the meantime, to fix\Nthis video and make it this one minute, 23
Dialogue: 0,0:34:21.98,0:34:24.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,seconds video.\NHerald: All right.
Dialogue: 0,0:34:24.18,0:34:29.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Andy: I can show it, but maybe you can\Nstart to take the questions.
Dialogue: 0,0:34:29.88,0:34:38.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Herald: Sure, yeah, and yes, so let's say\Nto the audience, please put your possible
Dialogue: 0,0:34:38.11,0:34:45.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,answers to Andy's questions in the chat. I\Nwill. I will follow them as good as I can.
Dialogue: 0,0:34:45.82,0:34:51.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so that we can have a lively\Ndiscussion. I know it might be a little
Dialogue: 0,0:34:51.27,0:34:57.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,bit limited because in a presence\NCongress, it would be easier to interact
Dialogue: 0,0:34:57.09,0:35:06.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with it with each other. And. But yeah,\Nlet's see that. And but first of all,
Dialogue: 0,0:35:06.34,0:35:17.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,maybe Andy, if you have the capacity for a\Nquestion from the interwebs. Then the
Dialogue: 0,0:35:17.62,0:35:23.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,question would be, how did you obtain the\Npictures and camera footage from the
Dialogue: 0,0:35:23.99,0:35:30.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,embassy?\NAndy: Well, this has to do with a legal
Dialogue: 0,0:35:30.06,0:35:40.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,analysis of this material. I'm myself, by\Nthe way, you could switch on the video if
Dialogue: 0,0:35:40.07,0:35:46.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you wanted. Well, I am myself accusing the\NSpanish company to have spied on me and
Dialogue: 0,0:35:46.81,0:35:52.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,other colleagues, and so I'm part of that\Nlegal proceedings. As as such, I'm also
Dialogue: 0,0:35:52.34,0:35:57.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,helping the lawyers to obtain the\Ntechnical evidence. There was a shitload
Dialogue: 0,0:35:57.88,0:36:04.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of digital evidence confiscated that\Nneeded forensic examination and so on. So
Dialogue: 0,0:36:04.24,0:36:10.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,this is material accessible to those who\Nhave been affected by the illegal
Dialogue: 0,0:36:10.36,0:36:14.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,activities performed by U.C. Global and\Nothers.
Dialogue: 0,0:36:14.91,0:36:25.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Herald: All right. Then there's also the\Nquestion of are there pictures of the four
Dialogue: 0,0:36:25.84,0:36:31.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or the people inside it, but I think\Nthat's pretty much a part of the video you
Dialogue: 0,0:36:32.24,0:36:34.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,have just shown or is there something\Ndifferent?
Dialogue: 0,0:36:34.16,0:36:38.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Andy: Is it? I'm sorry, I don't see what\Nis being broadcasted. Do you have access
Dialogue: 0,0:36:38.80,0:36:45.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to my sliding-to-the-streaming-laptop?\NHerald: OK, yeah. I guess that
Dialogue: 0,0:36:45.88,0:36:50.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Andy: This is the full video where you can\Nsee the guys reading the briefing notes on
Dialogue: 0,0:36:50.56,0:36:55.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the back seat. We have been able to zoom\Nin at (unintelligible) and so on.
Dialogue: 0,0:36:55.92,0:37:01.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Herald: And yeah, where the question was,\Nwhere did you get it from? But I think you
Dialogue: 0,0:37:01.68,0:37:05.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,already answered that in the previous\Nquestion, because ...
Dialogue: 0,0:37:05.72,0:37:09.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Andy: That's no answer to my question.\NWhat should we shall do, guys? {\i1}laughing{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:37:09.74,0:37:16.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Herald: Yeah. So, we have one line of\Nfeedback, for example, that, uh, how to
Dialogue: 0,0:37:16.88,0:37:22.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,get Julian Assange out of jail. One\Nproposal is "ask our foreign minister,
Dialogue: 0,0:37:22.80,0:37:28.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,give Julian German citizenship", make it a\N"Chef-Sache". So, part of the part of the
Dialogue: 0,0:37:28.64,0:37:33.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,chancellor. Uh, that's what it means in\NGerman, in every German activities.
Dialogue: 0,0:37:34.56,0:37:39.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Question mark? Would that work?\NAndy: Mm hmm. It's being worked on. I
Dialogue: 0,0:37:39.68,0:37:45.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,mean, the new we have a new foreign\Nminister who is a woman from the Green
Dialogue: 0,0:37:45.84,0:37:54.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Party, and she seems to be very much a fan\Nof United States German relationship. I'm
Dialogue: 0,0:37:54.72,0:38:03.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,not sure how much she sees about a lack of\Nvalues that the U.S. government represents
Dialogue: 0,0:38:03.44,0:38:10.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,watching the history of the U.S.\NConstitution and so on. But I'm sure there
Dialogue: 0,0:38:10.00,0:38:18.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is a lot work to be done there, and the\NGreen Party used to be also interested in
Dialogue: 0,0:38:19.60,0:38:26.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a society and stand for human rights and\Nso on. So I would say, yes, it's
Dialogue: 0,0:38:26.48,0:38:34.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,definitely it is a path to go.\NHerald: All right. There's also a
Dialogue: 0,0:38:34.14,0:38:50.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,question, are you so be you personally\Nstill under surveillance? Do you know?
Dialogue: 0,0:38:50.82,0:39:00.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Andy: Well, I've taken some legal and\Ntechnical measures, and the German
Dialogue: 0,0:39:00.05,0:39:10.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,authorities have some evidence I provided\Nto them still in their analytical labs and
Dialogue: 0,0:39:10.20,0:39:19.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so on. It's a little bit unrealistic to\Nassume that the Americans would not
Dialogue: 0,0:39:19.12,0:39:25.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,continue watching those who surrounded\NAssange and WikiLeaks it as a member of
Dialogue: 0,0:39:25.51,0:39:31.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the Wau Holland foundation, and we finance\Nthe, ... we financed many of the
Dialogue: 0,0:39:31.42,0:39:37.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,publications and things or aspects of the\Npublication. So, it would be unlikely that
Dialogue: 0,0:39:37.28,0:39:42.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the US lost interest. But at least for the\Nmoment, they seem to behave a little bit
Dialogue: 0,0:39:42.92,0:39:50.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,more, especially after the Yahoo article.\NI think it became very obvious also to the
Dialogue: 0,0:39:50.40,0:39:57.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,German authorities what was going on. So\Nthe article was helpful. It's just that
Dialogue: 0,0:39:57.52,0:40:03.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,some aspects of the article are just pure\Nrubbish and disinformation that try to
Dialogue: 0,0:40:04.80,0:40:10.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,smoothen it up a little bit.\NHerald: Mm hmm. All right. May I ask you
Dialogue: 0,0:40:10.80,0:40:20.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to, maybe, just also bring up again the\Nslides with your questions, so we will
Dialogue: 0,0:40:20.15,0:40:22.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,have to put\NAndy: Just a second.
Dialogue: 0,0:40:22.36,0:40:31.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Herald: I think this will help to spark a\Nbit of discussion also.
Dialogue: 0,0:40:31.62,0:40:48.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Andy: Sure, good point. ...Seem to need to\Nbrowse through. Here are the questions.
Dialogue: 0,0:40:48.96,0:40:57.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Herald: All right, thank you. And, uh.\NAnother answer to how to get him out of
Dialogue: 0,0:40:57.45,0:41:08.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,jail is "Keep talking about Julian Assange\Nand the public attend vigils". I don't
Dialogue: 0,0:41:08.78,0:41:15.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,know what that means. Actually, uh, write\Narticles, write comments. Call the
Dialogue: 0,0:41:15.36,0:41:21.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Department of Justice, talk to\Npoliticians. Communicate." So this is this
Dialogue: 0,0:41:21.62,0:41:24.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is one answer. Like, like keep, keep the\Nword out.
Dialogue: 0,0:41:24.82,0:41:29.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Andy: Yeah. I mean, let me briefly try to\Ninteract with whoever gave that
Dialogue: 0,0:41:30.56,0:41:38.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,suggestion. I think it's well known that\Nin Germany, in France and some countries,
Dialogue: 0,0:41:38.56,0:41:42.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,there was quite some campaigns going on at\Nthe last months, quite some people on the
Dialogue: 0,0:41:42.80,0:41:51.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,street acting for Julian and a series of\Nevents and so on. Also, a little bit in
Dialogue: 0,0:41:51.12,0:41:57.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,England, but England seems to be a very\Ntough under two aspects. The one is that
Dialogue: 0,0:41:57.76,0:42:02.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they don't have that of a self\Nunderstanding of a country with a
Dialogue: 0,0:42:02.96,0:42:07.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,constitution guaranteeing freedom rights,\NYou know the United Kingdom does not have
Dialogue: 0,0:42:07.60,0:42:12.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a constitution and it doesn't have what's\Ncalled constitutional rights. It does have
Dialogue: 0,0:42:12.72,0:42:21.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,similar statements, but they are not as\Nclearly defined and as a value system of a
Dialogue: 0,0:42:21.36,0:42:27.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,democratic society. So, most British\Npeople, if you ask them to do something
Dialogue: 0,0:42:27.44,0:42:31.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for freedom of press like the press, these\Nassholes, what should I do something for
Dialogue: 0,0:42:31.12,0:42:35.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,them? It's all very complicated and a bit\Npolarized over there. So but then the
Dialogue: 0,0:42:35.68,0:42:43.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,other aspect is that the UK government, to\Nsay it bluntly, there's quite some people
Dialogue: 0,0:42:43.44,0:42:48.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who say that the UK government does what\Nthe US government says. And in this case,
Dialogue: 0,0:42:50.08,0:42:55.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,there is no way, according to that\Ninterpretation, that you can avoid the UK
Dialogue: 0,0:42:55.92,0:43:01.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,government handing Julian over to the\NAmericans. So, the problem needs to be
Dialogue: 0,0:43:01.76,0:43:08.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,addressed in the US. And Germany and other\NEuropean countries have a different
Dialogue: 0,0:43:08.72,0:43:14.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,history, obviously, and I'm at least sure\Nthat if Julian would be in Germany, I'm
Dialogue: 0,0:43:14.64,0:43:19.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,not sure he would be not having any\Nissues, but there would be a different
Dialogue: 0,0:43:19.04,0:43:27.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,discussion. However, the question how the\Nso-called old Europe or the continental
Dialogue: 0,0:43:27.44,0:43:33.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Europe that is now even more ignored,\Nafter a bitter exit from the Brits, can
Dialogue: 0,0:43:33.20,0:43:37.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,have any influence here in England, I\Nwould say forget it on the US. It's more
Dialogue: 0,0:43:37.60,0:43:44.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,complicated. But for the moment, it seems\Nthat similar to what happened to Julian
Dialogue: 0,0:43:44.88,0:43:51.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and WikiLeaks in our own community, that\Nthere was quite a time-frame when the
Dialogue: 0,0:43:51.20,0:43:56.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,reputation to character assassination had\Ntook on so much that actually he was seen
Dialogue: 0,0:43:56.96,0:44:05.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as as a persona non grata more or less.\NThe United States political atmosphere is
Dialogue: 0,0:44:05.44,0:44:12.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,even more complicated and more polarized\Nbetween left, right and nuts, and whatever
Dialogue: 0,0:44:13.28,0:44:22.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that, it seems a very tricky task to bring\Nsome sense into that discussion. As long
Dialogue: 0,0:44:22.32,0:44:29.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as you have the military intelligence\Napparatus and Hillary Clinton saying,
Dialogue: 0,0:44:29.04,0:44:35.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,like, "hang him on the highest trees". So\Nthere seemed to be quite, and that's also
Dialogue: 0,0:44:35.12,0:44:41.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,mentioned in the Yahoo article, a revenge\Naspect of the United States legal system
Dialogue: 0,0:44:41.84,0:44:51.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,here. Not only Pompeo, that want to, yeah,\Nbasically, to kill Julian as a symbol that
Dialogue: 0,0:44:51.68,0:44:57.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,no one should ever try to reveal the dirty\Nlaundry of the United States. So yeah,
Dialogue: 0,0:44:57.52,0:45:04.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,this is a bit tricky and we will need more\Nideas and how to also initiate a better
Dialogue: 0,0:45:04.72,0:45:14.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,discussion in the United States, maybe.\NHerald: Mm hmm. Related to that. Another
Dialogue: 0,0:45:14.08,0:45:20.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,answer we got was, for example, of how to\Nhow to stop the criminalization of
Dialogue: 0,0:45:20.32,0:45:28.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,journalism. And maybe also other question\Nof these questions is a vote for the right
Dialogue: 0,0:45:28.32,0:45:39.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,people. And uh, while it probably can help\Nfor some things, and what comes to my mind
Dialogue: 0,0:45:39.12,0:45:51.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is, I mean, indeed, in this and also other\Nprosecutions and trials, very often there
Dialogue: 0,0:45:51.71,0:46:00.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,are some, uh, some ancient laws involved\Non those grounds. People could get
Dialogue: 0,0:46:00.24,0:46:08.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,prosecuted, right? Isn't it, for Julian?\NThere is. There is the Intelligence Act,
Dialogue: 0,0:46:08.48,0:46:11.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or what's the name of...?\NAndy: It is called the "Espionage Act". So
Dialogue: 0,0:46:12.80,0:46:18.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,basically what the U.S. prosecution does\Nis there's a so-called secret grand-jury
Dialogue: 0,0:46:20.32,0:46:25.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that might have even more investigations\Nrunning against Julian, and WikiLeaks than
Dialogue: 0,0:46:26.08,0:46:31.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that what has been put into the\Nextradition inquiry to the U.K. at this
Dialogue: 0,0:46:31.44,0:46:39.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,point. However, that one already accuses\Nhim to violating the Espionage Act, not
Dialogue: 0,0:46:39.04,0:46:45.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,declaring him having spied for another\Ncountry, but funnily having revealed
Dialogue: 0,0:46:45.44,0:46:50.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,secrets to the American public and to the,\Nof course, public of other countries.
Dialogue: 0,0:46:51.28,0:46:56.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That's what they call espionage. That's a\Nlittle bit ridiculous. And it is, however,
Dialogue: 0,0:46:56.96,0:47:04.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,even more of a concern watching the fact\Nthat a U.S. journalist would be able to
Dialogue: 0,0:47:04.64,0:47:10.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,claim the protection of the First\NAmendment, the right of freedom of speech
Dialogue: 0,0:47:10.08,0:47:14.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the right of publishers and\Njournalists and so on. However, they deny
Dialogue: 0,0:47:14.88,0:47:21.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that because he's not a U.S. citizen. So\Nthe US partially exports their laws and
Dialogue: 0,0:47:21.47,0:47:27.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,says, Well, you violate that against this\NAmerican law called the Espionage Act, but
Dialogue: 0,0:47:27.82,0:47:33.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they do not grant him the protection of\Nthe U.S. legal system. And that is, to
Dialogue: 0,0:47:33.64,0:47:42.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,call it hypocrisy is, I'm sorry, is too\Nnice. This is just really fucked up.
Dialogue: 0,0:47:42.66,0:47:58.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Herald: Mm-Hmm. OK. Shouldn't, try to get\Nrid of, maybe like, the Espionage Act or
Dialogue: 0,0:47:58.40,0:48:02.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or at least...\NAndy: I am all for it. Dissolve the CIA,
Dialogue: 0,0:48:02.48,0:48:08.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,get rid of the Espionage Act. I'm all for\Nit. I just fear that at least part of our
Dialogue: 0,0:48:08.18,0:48:14.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,community will have to become, I don't\Nknow, lawyers, lobbyists. Maybe we need to
Dialogue: 0,0:48:14.48,0:48:21.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,look for better communications with the US\Nhacker scene and see if they can kindly
Dialogue: 0,0:48:21.44,0:48:27.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,get into political consciousness mode and\Nget for a moment distracted from
Dialogue: 0,0:48:27.02,0:48:35.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,technology developments into society\Ndevelopment and see what can be done to
Dialogue: 0,0:48:35.48,0:48:40.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,ensure that in the future, we have the\Nright as a citizen to know what's
Dialogue: 0,0:48:40.74,0:48:44.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,happening in our name by government and so\Non.
Dialogue: 0,0:48:44.03,0:48:53.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Herald: Mm hmm. All right. Yeah, because\Nfor example, I remember a couple of years
Dialogue: 0,0:48:53.68,0:49:00.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,ago, I don't know whether it was in the\N2013, the year of Snowden or later where
Dialogue: 0,0:49:00.96,0:49:10.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we also had a talk at Congress about the\NGerman post surveillance, for example,
Dialogue: 0,0:49:10.56,0:49:24.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,where back in the,... I think it was the\Nseventies. Uh, where we had the "Nato
Dialogue: 0,0:49:24.32,0:49:32.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Truppen-Statut", got into play. But there\Nwas a verbal note from the from the forum
Dialogue: 0,0:49:32.04,0:49:38.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to the German government who told the\Nallies, Well, we will be part of the "Nato
Dialogue: 0,0:49:38.24,0:49:45.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Truppen-Statut" and all but don't be\Nafraid you will be able to have these
Dialogue: 0,0:49:45.28,0:49:55.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,powers. And as before, under Allies law,\Nyou could say, and only after this, uh,
Dialogue: 0,0:49:55.60,0:50:01.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the information the the investigative\Njournalism of I think it was a historian.
Dialogue: 0,0:50:01.84,0:50:09.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(...His toleration?...) Exactly. Mr\N(...Fischer-Bot...). But uh, only after
Dialogue: 0,0:50:09.20,0:50:16.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that came out, uh, to government had to\Nsay, OK, well, we want to stop this. And
Dialogue: 0,0:50:16.96,0:50:24.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,now this at least officially is over.\NAndy: Well, I mean, it's not really over.
Dialogue: 0,0:50:24.40,0:50:29.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Germany is still a member of NATO, and\Nthese regulations are still in place. And
Dialogue: 0,0:50:29.60,0:50:35.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,just to have it said, I mean it. The vault\N7 revelations. If you look at the
Dialogue: 0,0:50:35.36,0:50:44.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,publications of WikiLeaks, you will see\Nthe modules the CIA had developed to make
Dialogue: 0,0:50:44.08,0:50:50.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,software, a Trojan, a malware, whatever\Nkind of manipulations, to look like, it
Dialogue: 0,0:50:50.08,0:50:57.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,was coming from a specific country\Ntimezone. So to make a malware or attacks
Dialogue: 0,0:50:57.52,0:51:01.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on it systems make them look like they\Ncome from Russia, China, Iran, you name
Dialogue: 0,0:51:01.92,0:51:09.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it. North Korea issued a list as well. And\Nthis is the scenario we're looking at
Dialogue: 0,0:51:09.20,0:51:14.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,already. If you if you look at the news,\Nwhat happened the last years, we had all
Dialogue: 0,0:51:14.00,0:51:19.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,these attacks, it was Russia, it was\NChina, it was Iran, It was North Korea
Dialogue: 0,0:51:19.12,0:51:27.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,must probably have forgotten some other\Npeople who it was blamed on. But the
Dialogue: 0,0:51:27.28,0:51:35.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,discussion that the CIA would be having\Nthe tools to make attribution misleading
Dialogue: 0,0:51:35.52,0:51:41.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to a country. So what's called a false\Nflag operation in military terms is
Dialogue: 0,0:51:41.20,0:51:48.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,creating a scenario where exactly we as a\NNATO member are now looking into military-
Dialogue: 0,0:51:48.67,0:51:55.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,like conflicts again, because the media\Nenvironment has been so poisoned with, "it
Dialogue: 0,0:51:55.92,0:52:01.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,was those guys and those guys hacking our\NI.T., our parliament, our, you name it".
Dialogue: 0,0:52:02.16,0:52:10.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This worries me. It worries me that we as\Na technical community have not spent more
Dialogue: 0,0:52:10.56,0:52:16.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,attention to avoid the media environment\Nwas able to like, create again just
Dialogue: 0,0:52:16.16,0:52:23.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,paintings of enemies and create an\Natmosphere where war between countries
Dialogue: 0,0:52:23.20,0:52:29.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,seems possible again. And that's something\Nthat's deeply disturbing to me. And I
Dialogue: 0,0:52:29.28,0:52:34.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,think this is something we have to work on\Nmore as a community also to ensure that
Dialogue: 0,0:52:34.80,0:52:41.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,technical knowledge is not abused for\Nlike, yeah, political games by withholding
Dialogue: 0,0:52:41.84,0:52:47.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,information.\NHerald: Mm-Hmm.
Dialogue: 0,0:52:47.36,0:52:52.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Andy: And what I should mention is, yes,\Nwe are only having about two minutes left
Dialogue: 0,0:52:52.08,0:53:00.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,here, something I didn't agree to be\Navailable for a little discussion and a
Dialogue: 0,0:53:00.00,0:53:06.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,whistleblower tent that's somewhere in\Nthat virtual world. And the audience will
Dialogue: 0,0:53:06.64,0:53:10.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,hopefully find it.\NHerald: All right.
Dialogue: 0,0:53:10.64,0:53:17.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Andy: So then or whatever it's called.\NHerald: Uh, sorry, and once once again,
Dialogue: 0,0:53:17.92,0:53:19.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,what's the name of the of the whistle\Nblowert tent..
Dialogue: 0,0:53:19.10,0:53:26.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Andy: Of the dog whistle blower village?\NHerald: Okay, all right. So go out to the
Dialogue: 0,0:53:26.00,0:53:35.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,whistleblowers tent. And so after after\Nthis talk. And so maybe one last question.
Dialogue: 0,0:53:36.56,0:53:41.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Is it possible to sue the UK government\Nfor the treatment of Assange before the
Dialogue: 0,0:53:41.36,0:53:47.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,European Court of Human Rights?\NAndy: And it's a little complicated.
Dialogue: 0,0:53:48.64,0:53:56.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What's happening right now is I don't\Nthink other talks have covering it is that
Dialogue: 0,0:53:56.32,0:54:03.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Julian tries to avoid his extradition and\Nthere is specific aspects of this which he
Dialogue: 0,0:54:03.68,0:54:11.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,might at some point be able to address at\Nthe European Court of Human Rights. That,
Dialogue: 0,0:54:11.76,0:54:17.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in theory, could stop his extradition, but\Nonly if specific criteria are met, met and
Dialogue: 0,0:54:17.92,0:54:25.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so on. How much now the UK government will\Nlisten to it after the Brexit, and so one
Dialogue: 0,0:54:25.28,0:54:30.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is its end due to political atmospheric\Nreasons. That's a little tricky. The
Dialogue: 0,0:54:30.88,0:54:35.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,European Court of Human Rights is not part\Nof the EU agreement, so it doesn't matter
Dialogue: 0,0:54:35.92,0:54:42.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that the UK stepped out of the EU, but it\Nis still an instrument of Europe and not
Dialogue: 0,0:54:42.88,0:54:52.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the friendship between the United\NStates and Great Britain. So. The
Dialogue: 0,0:54:52.96,0:54:59.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,atmosphere of the British government does\Nnot suggest at this moment to be overly
Dialogue: 0,0:54:59.68,0:55:06.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,sensitive to anything coming from\Ncontinental Europe to say it carefully.
Dialogue: 0,0:55:06.96,0:55:14.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And that's pretty bad. All right, so,\Nyeah. Thank you, Andy, for your for your
Dialogue: 0,0:55:14.80,0:55:21.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,talk. For everyone who's interested in to\Nform a discussion with you, please go over
Dialogue: 0,0:55:21.24,0:55:27.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to the whistleblower. Talk on this channel\Nat cos it's on the stage. The next talk
Dialogue: 0,0:55:27.07,0:55:35.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,will be reproducible building network\Ninfrastructure by Astro, which will start
Dialogue: 0,0:55:35.36,0:55:45.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,at 9:30 p.m.. So tune in for the next\Ncourse on a talk as well. And that's it
Dialogue: 0,0:55:45.22,0:55:50.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for now. Thank you.
Dialogue: 0,0:55:50.95,0:55:53.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\i1}rc3 postroll music{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:55:53.26,0:56:00.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Subtitles created by c3subtitles.de\Nin the year 2022. Join, and help us!