[Script Info]
Title: 
[Events]
Format: Layer, Start, End, Style, Name, MarginL, MarginR, MarginV, Effect, Text
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Welcome to the only talk of this time span
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I am glad that I am the only one talking
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I hope I will somewhat interesting [laughs]
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That's a very good honour to be the only one talking
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I just wanted to do a status report of the Debian Printing team
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because it's been quite a long time, I've been working on this part of Debian
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I've tried to attract people into helping me for printing in the last years
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and it hasn't really worked.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So I'll just do another attempt and see what that gives
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and hopefully give you some insight on how the whole thing works
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,A little introduction about me;
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'm a Swiss guy, I was basically grown up with computers
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If you followed my talk from last year,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I showed you some of the Swiss computers back then
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and some Motorola 68k Swiss-specific stuff that I was basically born with.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I am currently working at Liip, CH.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's a Swiss company that has websites
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I'm working there as an eLearning specialist,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,webapp backender and sysadmin.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Whatever that means.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Towards Debian, I've been translating things
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,at the Ubuntu site since 2005,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,maintaining packages since 2009.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I've been a developer since 2011
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I've been maintaining some packages since then.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That's not the most interesting part of the talk
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so let's go forward.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This session's intent is to present the state of the Debian printing stack,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,its evolution until today, the leftover work
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and also how I got trapped into maintaining that part of Debian.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I mean, I don't have a particular interest in printers
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but, yeah.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,How you can help!
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So let's dive into the past
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If you have questions, just raise your hand and interrupt me
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Don't feel shy
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It started in June 2010, I adopted foomatic-filters
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because it was severely outdated
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There was no upload for a year, missing 5 new upstream releases
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We were lagging severely behind Ubuntu
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the maintainer was quasi-MIA
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Typical case for adopting a package some months before the freeze.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I was kind of looking for things to help the freeze out
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and this was broken on my machine,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that's were the trap was working me first.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It just made it into Squeeze because I did the upload
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,3 hours after the freeze was suprise announced at the DebConf then
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So I managed to get it through, somehow.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But that was the only package I was maintaining there for Squeeze
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Then in July, I sent this Request For Comments
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for forming a printing task force
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to various mailing lists
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the cups maintainers list, et cetera
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to see if it was possible to gather some people
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,around maintaining the whole printing stack under a team umbrella
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because before that it was just sets of packages
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,maintained by individuals on their own side of debian
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This thing was kind of working
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but as soon as people went MIA
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or just had other interests then the packages were rotting.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Then I started integrating the Ubuntu delta into Debian
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because Ubuntu apparently had more need than Debian
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to have a working printing infrastructure then.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and they had been fixing this stuff on their site.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's interesting to take a look at the Ubuntu delta
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in the first place, why there was one.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,One argument for that is that the updates were not proposed
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,back to Debian at all
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,No patches to enter to the bug tracker
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,no other was than just looking at the packages in Ubuntu
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and seeing there were updates there
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so I should maybe take the patches back
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but there was no upward communication.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,On the other hand, the packages were not getting
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,any or much attention in Debian, either.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,No one was actually taking a look at this diff
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and making sure that things were working.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It was working for some parts but there were many bugs still.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But it's still free software
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so patches were sitting there
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you had a nice link from the PTS to get one big patch
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you could apply to the Debian package
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and you could just integrate that.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The patches were available.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It was not that bad.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The work started at the beginning of the Wheezy cycle
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,around 2010 or 2011
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,by basically adopting new packages
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and polishing the Ubuntu changes
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,like taking one change at a time
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,making one clean commit out of that
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and uploading releases one after another
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,integrating new upstream releases
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and all good, no?
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Well, not exactly
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because the dependency stack was at that time a little complicated, so to say.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because every package was liking against its dependencies
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and some of the drivers had been promoted to the print server task.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So the print server task was pulling like, hplip and gutenprint
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but not other drivers for some reason
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and it was pulling cups
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and cups was pulling poppler
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and then, yes, that basically.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You can go on the wiki page to revise history
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but basically that was what was there when I was cleaning up the stack.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I started discussing the thing on the list
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and we were like 2 or 3 and many people were agreeing with the thing
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but I was not many for doing the thing [laughs]
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So I started cleaning up the dust
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,renaming the drivers,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,now all printer drivers are namespaced somehow
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they all start with the same binary name
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,reworking the dependency tree
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,making sure you have a printer-driver-all that just recommends all available
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,drivers that the print task can depend on.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, by default you get all available free software drivers
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,just in case you might want to install a printer.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There is this pyppd,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that is a compressor that would take the pdd files
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and turn them into an xz compressed python script
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that will uncompress itself into pdds
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that basically allow disk space reduction of 80%
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That was written during a Google Summer of Code
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I just wrote the dh wrapper around that to automate that for the printing
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,packages
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so if you put the ppd files in the right place
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and run that tool, it will just do the compression
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and replacement and removing in the right place.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We have moved all of the packages to git
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because some of them were in no VCS
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,some of them were in SVN
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I don't we had any in CVS
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but moving to git was a good thing
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in collab-maint by then because I didn't have the interest in making a proper
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,team namespace
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I wondered if it was easier just to put everything there
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and what might happen is that someone would be interested in putting patches.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That didn't happen.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We hijacked the debian-printing list,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because no one was using that
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and it was totally logical to use that
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as a maintainer list, to have everything in the same place.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and cleaning out dependencies, apparently that was twice on the slide.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,During that time, we managed to package all known free software drivers.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There were some laying around that were not packaged,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,some that were a little complicated to package.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I tried to search through OpenPrinting and whatever
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and find some others that were not packaged
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that were maybe supporting one or two printers.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I wondered, it was probably good to have them in Debian anyway
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,could be useful to one or two users.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Consolidated the foomatic packaging
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and caught back on upstream versions.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think in wheezy we had most of that.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But there's still cups.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,cups is like the thing you don't really want to touch when you do printing
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because that is the complicated part,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,everything else is just drivers, filters and small programs
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's easy when you start packaging,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,small things in different languages
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's funny.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But cups is a little frightening.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So I wondered, cups is one big thing
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and it has an Apple upstream,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it's not really the thing you want to touch.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,cups is not really known for the super whatever free software friendly.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The wheezy freeze was upcoming and cups hadn't seen uploads for a year
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so I started fixing one thing after another
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I started uploading NMUs
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I ended up doing 16 NMUs in a row
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Not every NMU got the freeze exception request
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but almost all of them
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So for each of the NMUs, there was a discussion
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with the release team all of the changes that would enter wheezy.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Yeah, that.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In 2013, cups was especially made complicated
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,by the fact there was no public VCS.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There used to be an SVN but it was down for some reason.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There also used to be a public bug tracker,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but it was down for some reason.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The few contacts I had with Apple
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,was just over private mails
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because they had no mailing lists,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or it was closed or it was down.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So not exactly the upstream you are very fine working with
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's just a black-hole, you get a new tarball
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,No changes, you get a Changelog, but you don't get the individual changes
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and of course the package back then had no test suite working, no autopkgtest
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, yeah, that.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But finally after doing 16 NMUs, I thought to myself,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Yeah, what does that mean? The real maintainer would not get back to
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,uploading that for the stable release so I might as well just update
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and we'll see what happens.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So apparently the trap worked.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I ended up with one more big package, that's cups.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So where do we stand now?
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If you run sid, you probably have most packages
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that are in there are the most recent upstream version.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In the last year, we moved from collab-maint to printing
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because it's now easier because now I'm a DD
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so I could easily create a new alioth group
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and we thought it's also easier to see who was actually still in the team.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We sent out the mail to various persons that had contributed and asked them to
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,request the membership in alioth
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The ones that are just MIA don't request and they're not members
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So that the list on alioth is somewhat relevant
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We kind of managed to maintain the bug flow at a reasonable level.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I started, there was like 400 bugs and now we are around 300
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but that means also that the new bugs are addressed within a reasonable delay,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,somehow.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So now, the FLOSS drivers are in Debian
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There was a new one, I think 3 months ago,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,some guy did a driver for 2 or 3 Brother printers
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that just works currently.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So we packaged that and it's in Debian.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Also the Ubuntu diff is kept minimal
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we've integrated some of the Ubuntu specific changes
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,into the Debian packaging just to avoid have them creating a new diff
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or maintaining a diff over time.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We could do that easily with dpkg-vendor for example
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The package is the same,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,just at build-time it will do different things
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So for example, the default pdf page is different
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the two pages are in the Debian package
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but when you build it on Ubuntu you get the Ubuntu page.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It has the advantage that the Ubuntu
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,employees don't have to maintain that patch over time
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We manage to get the diff to zero, sometimes
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Sometimes, you just see a peak in Ubuntu
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because they want to be to faster than the music
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and they do their stuff.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That's the bugs for all printing packages
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it's not that bad.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I had to do actual work, for my work
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in July and August it rose a little.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,For cups, as you might have noticed if you're googling it now
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we've gone from 1.5.3 in Squeeze
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to 1.7.5, now in Jessie.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So it's two minor upstream releases
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with quite a lot of changes
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I think we packaged all intermediate versions
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and it's not bold to say that Wheezy will release with a minor version of 1.7
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I mean Jessie, yes. Thank you.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'm getting old!
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We've enabled the full testsuite
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so lots of patches within the testsuite
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but not for disabling things, mostly for ignoring things in the error logs
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because cups' testsuite will count the number of errors in its error log
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so you have to take things out so that the count always matches
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,autopkgtest is basically printing to /dev/null
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but we test that this continues to work when other parts of the archive change
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so printing to /dev/null works
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Good news!
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We've patched in the systemd socket activation and activity timeout
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The socket activation was originally from Lennart
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and then changed by Gentoo to not have that mandatory,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because Gentoo also has sysvinit
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,where Red Hat just has systemd so they don't have an option at runtime
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to either activate or deactive the socket activation
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So it's a mix of the Red Hat patch and the Gentoo patch
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,plus cleaning, of course.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The activity timeout was from Ubuntu
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Basically now in sid if you run systemd, or upstart
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,after 30 seconds of not doing anything the cups server will shutdown itself
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and doesn't do anything and when you print something or access the web
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,interface over the 6631 port, it just launches itself in a part of second
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and prints and then after 30 seconds shuts down again.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,As for upstream, we have regular good and constructive contact
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with upstream.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They have again a public VCS, bugs repository
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so we can actually communicate on the public place
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and have the various changes also as individual units
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so it's quite easier then.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,As for the constructive contacts,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I also have good private emails with Mike
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Michael Sweet from Apple
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about this GnuTLS vs OpenSSL discussion
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we had in debian-devel some months ago
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because GnuTLS introduced some incompatibilities
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So I thought we could just build against OpenSSL
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,No problem, cups has the GPL 2 exception
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and it was rightly pointed out that every package
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that uses libcups2 also needs the GPL 2 exception for OpenSSL.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So it wasn't really possible.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So we had that discussion and actually
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,upstream was interested in finding a solution
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,eventually patching in another SSL library
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,if that would help the Linux distributors
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It was kind of surprising to me that Apple would be doing that
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but they were! I must say, so that's good.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Now we dropped the OpenSSL and it just builds the latest GnuTLS version
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The Linux Foundation still needs to maintain several things
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that got dropped from cups
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That is one drawback of having cups owned by Apple is that
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they basically dropped everything that was not interesting for them.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So they want to just make sure you can print on Apple certified printers
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the rest is left up the community.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So the Linux Foundation took over the cups filters
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the cups broadcasting management,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so you can announcement between cups servers
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to get the queues in your local queue, et cetera
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So that's taken over by the Linux Foundation
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'm thankful they do that job
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'm happy I don't have to do it myself
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because it probably wouldn't work
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and Till Kamppeter is working with them making that happen,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so I'm glad he does and thank you.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We also have some people helping,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I would like to thank Brian Potkin in particular
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for being precise, tireless and helpful
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I don't know if he is at DebConf
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but he's been participating on the list quite a lot
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for tracking down some bugs
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,reporting some useful bugs
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,preparing some patches also.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That's been useful.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You might have seen from the list of packages
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we also have packages that I don't maintain myself
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but that are also in the Debian Printing team;
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we have Jonas for ghostscript and IJS,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,c2050 by Marco,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,cups-bjnp by Joe,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,min12xxw by Stefan
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and tea4cups by Mike.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Those packages don't move very often,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but when they do we have updates.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So it's good.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In other parts of the stack, we still have hplip
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that is maintained indepedently by Mark Purcell.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That also gets updated regularly so it's fine.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and cups-pdf by Martin-Ăric
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which is apparently working too.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So thanks!
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,For the future; scoping the problem,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,non-free plague and some incoming challenges.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The problem of printing is that it's still a must-be of our world.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,When you discuss with people some people say cups is really shit,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we could just drop that from the default installation.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Well you know, people still print
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The non-paper world is probably in the advertisement
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but it's not there at all.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Printing when it works is boring,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it just has to work.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But when it doesn't, it's really annoying.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So it's that type of technical challenge that
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you will only get complaints when it doesn't
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and when it does everyone is happy, no bugs, nothing, it just works.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And that's fine.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,On the other hand, printing is damn complex.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Printer manufacturers come up with new protocols every 3 months basically.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They can even change printing protocols
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,within the same product suite, for some reason.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You get different IPP versions, PCL support
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,different memory requirements
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,now you can directly feed PDFs to printers
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but the printers will sometimes fail
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because the internal PDF rendering will fail for some reason
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so you have to circumvent that in the printer drivers
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You also have different sending protocols,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AirPrint, the Google cloud print is coming,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we have now IPP over USB for some printers
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's like an ever changing landscape for printing
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's a thing we've been doing for years
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and it's still changing for some reason.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's complex also because it takes any format as input;
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you can print images, Word documents, PDFs, PostScript
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and you have to make sure that's transformed to whatever
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the printer is ready to get.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Sometimes that's PostScript, sometimes that's PDF,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,sometimes it's a raw whatever, sometimes it's a bitstream.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So we have complex chains
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and one of the biggest problems is that when a user has a problem,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the probability is 1 that you don't have the printer.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I mean, I have one printer at home
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I test it when I do new uploads
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I just print the test page and that works
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but when a guy has a problem on a printer, I don't have it.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So it's quite hard to reproduce.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There's still IP in the drivers
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We have full manufacturer suites that have no acceptable FLOSS support.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'll do some fingerpointing now.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I hope this is not video-taped.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Oh shit.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We've had this project from Debian France
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they were basically offering books for people
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that would be happy to contribute to something
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I mentored two guys to take a look at what Brother is doing with the drivers
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I invite you to go there, the documentation is quite extensive
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and they tried to see how we could package that even in non-free
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,just to consolidate the thing and have a somewhat clean dump of files
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,even in non-free so that we could install that
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,instead of downloading a 2002 .deb, that has no debsums
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But the web page layout changed in the middle of the project.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They just revamped the website.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So we had a crawler that would get the various drivers and it just changed
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,completely, in the middle of the project.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,For some printers you have two different versions
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Either for SI or imperial units.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Because, I don't know, the printers has different physical size
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or I don't know.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You have C-shell all over the place,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I don't think we have any valid C-shell interpreter yet in Debian
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,For many drivers, there is no co-installation possible
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because they used the same named files with different contents
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in the same place
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So you need a different file with the same name, the same place
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for two different printers.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So basically you can even print to one or the other
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but not to two at the same time.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It still uses printcap, that's been deprecated
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,since at least Etch, I didn't check
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but something very old.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There are a lot of bugs all over the place
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it's loads and loads of shell code that would unpack
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,parts of PPD files to generate files to put in other places,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,download things from the Internet...
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,A whole load of crap, frankly.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But we should not only finger point at Brother
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,at Samsung they are doing exactly the same, or worse
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I didn't take a look at that precisely
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but the Brother project was quite frightening
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I don't think we will ever do something useful there.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I don't know if that's, I don't know.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[??]: I seem to remember a Samsung printer driver installer
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,from some years back
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that would require applications printing
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to run as root
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,setuid flag on certain applications so it might be used for printing.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Didier]: I'm not surprised.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That's the dark corner we don't to see.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There are free drivers that work quite well
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and there are a whole lot of things in the dark corner
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that, you don't want to buy these printers
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because there's no way to make them work reasonably
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,unless you download a some very very rare old Debian package,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,fix the debsums inside and something like that.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,For Jessie, new things:
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,ghostscript moved to AGPL,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that makes some people very happy.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so what we'll probably do is upload the latest non-AGPL version
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and have that in Jessie
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and we'll probably see what happens then
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because we release soon and it's quite a complex problem
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we won't have time to fix that before.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, we'll move some versions up
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but not to the latest upstream version.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Apparently we're the only ones to care,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,all the other distributions have uploaded the AGPL version and it's there.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,CUPS 2.0 is around the corner,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we hope it will get there by the end of the year.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It introduces upstream systemd support,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,TLS certificate validation,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,maybe it's time for us to do that!
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They moved to OpenSSL support
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and many OSX enhancements,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,whatever that is useful for us.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Expect 2.0~beta1 in experimental in the next weeks/months,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we'll see.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So what you can do.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Frankly, I'm getting bored by all that.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's been years now, I've been maintaining the printing stack.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Not exactly alone, but for some parts quite alone.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's true to say that I've got quite a lot of
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,collaboration with Ubuntu to make that work.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There are many things that I just have to
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,patch back into Debian and it just works
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but it's sometimes a little boring to do that all alone.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'm glad others are helping in the team
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but for the most part, particularly cups,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it's not that easy.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But it's not too complicated, believe me.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Trust me!
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,One point is, I'm very bad at motivating people
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or documenting the processes.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,For example the Teams page on the wiki,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I probably edited it twice, once in 2010
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and once last year for the printing BoF
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and it's still sitting there with not many updates
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So someone motivated by processes documentation should jump on the ship
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and do some stuff there.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This talk was an attempt at motivating people, at least
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So we'll see if that works.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,On the long-term;
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,what we need is move drivers writers bascially
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because there are tons of printers that come out
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that don't get full support and that people use, basically
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the problem is not making sure everyone can buy the printer they want
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,people will have printers they have there and they want that to work
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and it doesn't.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So we need people to actually write drivers for printers.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We need more bug triagers,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that they become wanna-maintainers, hopefully.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and less bugs, pretty please.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We can achieve less bugs two ways;
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,by fixing more bugs or by introducing less bugs.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So maybe we should do the two.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That's all from my little Debian Printing stack status.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If you have questions, I am happy to try to answer them.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Otherwise, I think we can all move to dinner!
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Wookey]: I'm a bit interested in printing
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because we have lots of corporate printing
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which doesn't work because it's all run for Windows people.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So the poor Linux people are thoroughly ignored
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and in fact if we print to the printers, they tend to crash!
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Which is a bit sad
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and people complain that the printers are very unreliable
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and actually it's us [laughs]
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There's a fifty percent chance of things exploding
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But what I haven't been able to find is
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,where do people that have to worry about corporate installations hang out?
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I couldn't find anywhere to ask questions
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because our IT people go:
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"We don't know how it's supposed to work in Linux-world,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we have no fucking idea.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Please tell us what to do and we'll do that"
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I don't know anything about printing,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or who to ask, or where to go.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Is there a place?
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There must be lots of people who have big installations
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and there must be some people who understand how this works
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Didier]: The debian-printing list is not that much use
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it gets the automated mails from the maintainers mails
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so we could drop that if people started to use that.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That would be one option, I think you should look into
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,OpenPrinting and if no list exists there
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they should probably create one.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think they have one, they have summits
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and they have meetings for whatever printing related-
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Wookey]: Somewhere on the OpenPrinting site,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,would be a good place then?
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Didier]: Yes, I think.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[??]: Hi, I was just wondering if you would comment on-
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What's your perspective on backports things like that.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So once we go stable, how do you see supporting the printing stack
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for 2 years/5 years, however long stable's going to be out there.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Didier]: There are two answers for that;
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,one is, there's quite a lot of security work to do for stable already
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and we had a, I think, privilege escalation in stable.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So we had to revamped the whole configuration system in stable, for cups,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,during the wheezy cycle.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So that kind of takes the time that would be allocated for backports.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The other answer is, patches welcome!
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So I didn't do backports for wheezy yet,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,just because I had enough on my plate for sid.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But I would happily help anyone wanting to prepare backports
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think it shouldn't be too hard.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,cups is probably buildable right away.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[??]: So that's cups, how about drivers?
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Didier]: Same.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If anyone's interested I could just help making sure it happens.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's unlikely I would do it myself.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[??]: Thank you.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Ben]: Do new drivers typically depend on a new version of cups?
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Didier]: Usually not, because they build against libcups2
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but libcups2 is kind of ABI stable, since years
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So it shouldn't be too much.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Ben]: So the missing hardware support, is as I understand it
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,always considered an important bug
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and worthy of a stable update.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So that means that if you wanted to, you could update drivers,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,add new drivers, in stable.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,For hardware enablement.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Didier]: That's interesting, yeah.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Ben]: I also had a question about drivers, which is
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,typically when I plug into a new printer,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I get a list of possible drivers
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,possibly limited to the exact model, or not.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But there always seems to be more than one option per model.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I assume that because there are multiple collections of drivers
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in the package.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,How, as a user, supposed to decide which of those to use?
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Didier]: Trial and attempt? [laughs]
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I mean, for some printers you get a recommended version
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,from foomatic that has this parenthesis recommended thing.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You should just pick that one.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think we also mostly have multiple drivers per printer
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because sometimes for a single printer,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,depending on where in the world it was
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it would work better or worse with different printer drivers.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The one database that we use for that is foomaticdb
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That is maintained on the OpenPrinting website
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Where exactly you should report bugs isn't exactly clear,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,also for me, so I should clarify that.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Ben]: I've never selected a driver and found that it didn't work
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So as far as I'm concerned you're doing fine there.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's simply because, having been presented with a choice,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I don't know what the difference would be.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Didier]: Was that on the cups web interface?
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Ben]: Yes.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Didier]: I think there the selection isn't very smart
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but when I think that you use python-cups or one of the
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,GNOME or KDE frontends,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you have a little less options, I think.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But that's more frontend work, than whatever cups related
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but I don't have a better answer, now. [laughs]
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Any other questions?
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Wookey]: Kind of following on from what Ben said
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'd been under the impression that those were different ways of talking to the
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,printer
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because there are always 17 ways of talking to any given printer
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So I kind of thought that those were all different flavours
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But again, it's extremely unclear.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Do I want foomatic-thingy or hplip-thingy or somethingelse-thingy?
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I just say, you try one and usually it works
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and you go, "I can sit here and try all 17
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but I don't know whether that's good."
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And sometimes there's the interface to printer you have to specify
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so our fancy printer in the office has 81 different ways of talking to it
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and you go, "I don't want to try all those!"
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The 4 I've tried all make it crash!
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Didier]: Just need one that works!
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Wookey]: Exactly.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There seems to be a very small number of people that understand this stuff
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There's Till and maybe 3 other people somewhere.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Didier]: Yeah.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Wookey]: Right.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Didier]: We should talk more to Till! [laughs]
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,He's making most of that work on the Ubuntu site.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think, as a Canonical employee.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Wookey]: I vaguely gathered that the cups browsing thing has disappeared
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,upstream
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So we're keeping it in a Debian and Ubuntu, while we can.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Is that right?
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Didier]: Yes.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Basically using a zeroconf/avahi thing.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Wookey]: That's how Apple want it to work
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but especially in a big office, that doesn't work at all
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because you're on different network segments
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Didier]: One thing that was dropped and that hasn't been reintroduced
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on OpenPrinting, is the LDAP support.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It used to be in cups, that's now removed.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It was used in big corporations that had
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,like, an LDAP list of printers.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Instead of listening to the noise of all printers
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,announcing themselves on a network.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And we regularly get users asking,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the latest one was,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"The browsing daemon has 10% CPU,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is that because I have 100 printers at my office?"
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Well, yes! [laughs]
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I don't have the capacity of recoding that anyway
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If a big corporation wants to get LDAP support,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they should make LDAP support!
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Wookey]: Fix it, yeah.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Didier]: But I'm open to integrating that as a Debian patch
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,if that helps, but can't really fix that myself.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Wookey]: If I had any time I would like to help you with printing.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But I have too many hats already, so I'm not promising anything!
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Didier]: Yeah, thank you.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Wookey]: Mostly so I could actually print stuff,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,without having to run Windows in a VM.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Which in practice is how I printed my stuff to get here!
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Didier]: Yeah, it's bad.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Actually, one thing that geeks like us should know
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is how to pick the correct printer when you buy one
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Wookey]: Yeah, my home printers all work fine.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The cups browsing works, stuff prints,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it's all lovely.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's when you go to work that the whole things a disaster
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Didier]: Yah.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[??]: Which manufacturers should we prefer?
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[laughter]
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Didier]: I'm not paid by any of these, but HP printers mostly work fine
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Either through hplip or other things.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That's baseline, I would say.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Others work too! [laughs]
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If anyone has contacts at Brother,
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,tell them to contact me and we'll manage something
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and recommend some good practices for modern printing
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,if you know, because that's not an acceptable way
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of providing Linux support, I think.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Anyway, other questions?
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Everyone's hungry.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Good, thank you very much.
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[applause]
Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,