1 00:00:00,657 --> 00:00:03,159 Some years ago, I set out to try to understand 2 00:00:03,159 --> 00:00:05,887 if there was a possibility to develop biofuels 3 00:00:05,887 --> 00:00:10,589 on a scale that would actually compete with fossil fuels 4 00:00:10,589 --> 00:00:14,273 but not compete with agriculture for water, 5 00:00:14,273 --> 00:00:16,711 fertilizer or land. 6 00:00:16,711 --> 00:00:18,241 So here's what I came up with. 7 00:00:18,241 --> 00:00:19,849 Imagine that we build an enclosure where we put it 8 00:00:19,849 --> 00:00:22,127 just underwater, and we fill it with wastewater 9 00:00:22,127 --> 00:00:25,255 and some form of microalgae that produces oil, 10 00:00:25,255 --> 00:00:27,415 and we make it out of some kind of flexible material 11 00:00:27,415 --> 00:00:29,487 that moves with waves underwater, 12 00:00:29,487 --> 00:00:31,527 and the system that we're going to build, of course, 13 00:00:31,527 --> 00:00:33,847 will use solar energy to grow the algae, 14 00:00:33,847 --> 00:00:36,058 and they use CO2, which is good, 15 00:00:36,058 --> 00:00:38,423 and they produce oxygen as they grow. 16 00:00:38,423 --> 00:00:42,087 The algae that grow are in a container that 17 00:00:42,087 --> 00:00:44,879 distributes the heat to the surrounding water, 18 00:00:44,879 --> 00:00:47,143 and you can harvest them and make biofuels 19 00:00:47,143 --> 00:00:49,823 and cosmetics and fertilizer and animal feed, 20 00:00:49,823 --> 00:00:52,663 and of course you'd have to make a large area of this, 21 00:00:52,663 --> 00:00:55,215 so you'd have to worry about other stakeholders 22 00:00:55,215 --> 00:00:59,407 like fishermen and ships and such things, but hey, 23 00:00:59,407 --> 00:01:01,670 we're talking about biofuels, 24 00:01:01,670 --> 00:01:03,872 and we know the importance of potentially getting 25 00:01:03,872 --> 00:01:06,351 an alternative liquid fuel. 26 00:01:06,351 --> 00:01:09,032 Why are we talking about microalgae? 27 00:01:09,032 --> 00:01:12,719 Here you see a graph showing you the different types 28 00:01:12,719 --> 00:01:16,571 of crops that are being considered for making biofuels, 29 00:01:16,571 --> 00:01:19,134 so you can see some things like soybean, 30 00:01:19,134 --> 00:01:21,451 which makes 50 gallons per acre per year, 31 00:01:21,451 --> 00:01:26,508 or sunflower or canola or jatropha or palm, and that 32 00:01:26,508 --> 00:01:31,002 tall graph there shows what microalgae can contribute. 33 00:01:31,002 --> 00:01:33,533 That is to say, microalgae contributes between 2,000 34 00:01:33,533 --> 00:01:36,325 and 5,000 gallons per acre per year, 35 00:01:36,325 --> 00:01:39,677 compared to the 50 gallons per acre per year from soy. 36 00:01:39,677 --> 00:01:42,941 So what are microalgae? Microalgae are micro -- 37 00:01:42,941 --> 00:01:45,389 that is, they're extremely small, as you can see here 38 00:01:45,389 --> 00:01:48,357 a picture of those single-celled organisms 39 00:01:48,357 --> 00:01:50,667 compared to a human hair. 40 00:01:50,667 --> 00:01:53,493 Those small organisms have been around 41 00:01:53,493 --> 00:01:55,533 for millions of years and there's thousands 42 00:01:55,533 --> 00:01:57,757 of different species of microalgae in the world, 43 00:01:57,757 --> 00:02:00,781 some of which are the fastest-growing plants on the planet, 44 00:02:00,781 --> 00:02:03,973 and produce, as I just showed you, lots and lots of oil. 45 00:02:03,973 --> 00:02:07,261 Now, why do we want to do this offshore? 46 00:02:07,261 --> 00:02:10,109 Well, the reason we're doing this offshore is because 47 00:02:10,109 --> 00:02:14,705 if you look at our coastal cities, there isn't a choice, 48 00:02:14,705 --> 00:02:17,504 because we're going to use waste water, as I suggested, 49 00:02:17,504 --> 00:02:19,415 and if you look at where most of the waste water 50 00:02:19,415 --> 00:02:22,984 treatment plants are, they're embedded in the cities. 51 00:02:22,984 --> 00:02:26,667 This is the city of San Francisco, which has 900 miles 52 00:02:26,667 --> 00:02:29,322 of sewer pipes under the city already, 53 00:02:29,322 --> 00:02:33,298 and it releases its waste water offshore. 54 00:02:33,298 --> 00:02:37,210 So different cities around the world treat their waste water 55 00:02:37,210 --> 00:02:39,578 differently. Some cities process it. 56 00:02:39,578 --> 00:02:41,224 Some cities just release the water. 57 00:02:41,224 --> 00:02:43,882 But in all cases, the water that's released is 58 00:02:43,882 --> 00:02:46,842 perfectly adequate for growing microalgae. 59 00:02:46,842 --> 00:02:48,507 So let's envision what the system might look like. 60 00:02:48,507 --> 00:02:50,609 We call it OMEGA, which is an acronym for 61 00:02:50,609 --> 00:02:55,040 Offshore Membrane Enclosures for Growing Algae. 62 00:02:55,040 --> 00:02:57,592 At NASA, you have to have good acronyms. 63 00:02:57,592 --> 00:03:00,435 So how does it work? I sort of showed you how it works already. 64 00:03:00,435 --> 00:03:04,155 We put waste water and some source of CO2 65 00:03:04,155 --> 00:03:07,202 into our floating structure, 66 00:03:07,202 --> 00:03:10,843 and the waste water provides nutrients for the algae to grow, 67 00:03:10,843 --> 00:03:13,561 and they sequester CO2 that would otherwise go off 68 00:03:13,561 --> 00:03:16,171 into the atmosphere as a greenhouse gas. 69 00:03:16,171 --> 00:03:18,499 They of course use solar energy to grow, 70 00:03:18,499 --> 00:03:21,050 and the wave energy on the surface provides energy 71 00:03:21,050 --> 00:03:23,354 for mixing the algae, and the temperature 72 00:03:23,354 --> 00:03:25,914 is controlled by the surrounding water temperature. 73 00:03:25,914 --> 00:03:29,268 The algae that grow produce oxygen, as I've mentioned, 74 00:03:29,268 --> 00:03:32,556 and they also produce biofuels and fertilizer and food and 75 00:03:32,556 --> 00:03:35,997 other bi-algal products of interest. 76 00:03:35,997 --> 00:03:39,414 And the system is contained. What do I mean by that? 77 00:03:39,414 --> 00:03:41,540 It's modular. Let's say something happens that's 78 00:03:41,540 --> 00:03:43,734 totally unexpected to one of the modules. 79 00:03:43,734 --> 00:03:45,933 It leaks. It's struck by lightning. 80 00:03:45,933 --> 00:03:48,542 The waste water that leaks out is water that already now 81 00:03:48,542 --> 00:03:50,930 goes into that coastal environment, and 82 00:03:50,930 --> 00:03:53,178 the algae that leak out are biodegradable, 83 00:03:53,178 --> 00:03:54,264 and because they're living in waste water, 84 00:03:54,264 --> 00:03:57,333 they're fresh water algae, which means they can't 85 00:03:57,333 --> 00:03:59,130 live in salt water, so they die. 86 00:03:59,130 --> 00:04:01,290 The plastic we'll build it out of is some kind of 87 00:04:01,290 --> 00:04:03,922 well-known plastic that we have good experience with, and 88 00:04:03,922 --> 00:04:08,773 we'll rebuild our modules to be able to reuse them again. 89 00:04:08,773 --> 00:04:12,345 So we may be able to go beyond that when thinking about 90 00:04:12,345 --> 00:04:14,822 this system that I'm showing you, and that is to say 91 00:04:14,822 --> 00:04:17,656 we need to think in terms of the water, the fresh water, 92 00:04:17,656 --> 00:04:20,022 which is also going to be an issue in the future, 93 00:04:20,022 --> 00:04:21,859 and we're working on methods now 94 00:04:21,859 --> 00:04:24,381 for recovering the waste water. 95 00:04:24,381 --> 00:04:27,173 The other thing to consider is the structure itself. 96 00:04:27,173 --> 00:04:30,224 It provides a surface for things in the ocean, 97 00:04:30,224 --> 00:04:33,467 and this surface, which is covered by seaweeds 98 00:04:33,467 --> 00:04:35,961 and other organisms in the ocean, 99 00:04:35,961 --> 00:04:39,948 will become enhanced marine habitat 100 00:04:39,948 --> 00:04:41,611 so it increases biodiversity. 101 00:04:41,611 --> 00:04:43,611 And finally, because it's an offshore structure, 102 00:04:43,611 --> 00:04:46,513 we can think in terms of how it might contribute 103 00:04:46,513 --> 00:04:50,267 to an aquaculture activity offshore. 104 00:04:50,267 --> 00:04:51,856 So you're probably thinking, "Gee, this sounds 105 00:04:51,856 --> 00:04:56,427 like a good idea. What can we do to try to see if it's real?" 106 00:04:56,427 --> 00:05:00,242 Well, I set up laboratories in Santa Cruz 107 00:05:00,242 --> 00:05:03,404 at the California Fish and Game facility, 108 00:05:03,404 --> 00:05:06,453 and that facility allowed us to have big seawater tanks 109 00:05:06,453 --> 00:05:08,176 to test some of these ideas. 110 00:05:08,176 --> 00:05:10,798 We also set up experiments in San Francisco 111 00:05:10,798 --> 00:05:13,629 at one of the three waste water treatment plants, 112 00:05:13,629 --> 00:05:16,125 again a facility to test ideas. 113 00:05:16,125 --> 00:05:19,429 And finally, we wanted to see where we could look at 114 00:05:19,429 --> 00:05:22,133 what the impact of this structure would be 115 00:05:22,133 --> 00:05:25,790 in the marine environment, and we set up a field site 116 00:05:25,790 --> 00:05:28,253 at a place called Moss Landing Marine Lab 117 00:05:28,253 --> 00:05:30,613 in Monterey Bay, where we worked in a harbor 118 00:05:30,613 --> 00:05:35,459 to see what impact this would have on marine organisms. 119 00:05:35,459 --> 00:05:38,549 The laboratory that we set up in Santa Cruz was our skunkworks. 120 00:05:38,549 --> 00:05:41,447 It was a place where we were growing algae 121 00:05:41,447 --> 00:05:44,112 and welding plastic and building tools 122 00:05:44,112 --> 00:05:45,635 and making a lot of mistakes, 123 00:05:45,635 --> 00:05:47,566 or, as Edison said, we were 124 00:05:47,566 --> 00:05:51,016 finding the 10,000 ways that the system wouldn't work. 125 00:05:51,016 --> 00:05:55,262 Now, we grew algae in waste water, and we built tools 126 00:05:55,262 --> 00:05:58,694 that allowed us to get into the lives of algae 127 00:05:58,694 --> 00:06:00,416 so that we could monitor the way they grow, 128 00:06:00,416 --> 00:06:03,118 what makes them happy, how do we make sure that 129 00:06:03,118 --> 00:06:07,020 we're going to have a culture that will survive and thrive. 130 00:06:07,020 --> 00:06:10,109 So the most important feature that we needed to develop were these 131 00:06:10,109 --> 00:06:12,837 so-called photobioreactors, or PBRs. 132 00:06:12,837 --> 00:06:14,180 These were the structures that would be floating at the 133 00:06:14,180 --> 00:06:17,605 surface made out of some inexpensive plastic material 134 00:06:17,605 --> 00:06:20,262 that'll allow the algae to grow, and we had built lots and lots 135 00:06:20,262 --> 00:06:23,391 of designs, most of which were horrible failures, 136 00:06:23,391 --> 00:06:25,726 and when we finally got to a design that worked, 137 00:06:25,726 --> 00:06:28,013 at about 30 gallons, we scaled it up 138 00:06:28,013 --> 00:06:31,629 to 450 gallons in San Francisco. 139 00:06:31,629 --> 00:06:33,823 So let me show you how the system works. 140 00:06:33,823 --> 00:06:37,535 We basically take waste water with algae of our choice in it, 141 00:06:37,535 --> 00:06:40,241 and we circulate it through this floating structure, 142 00:06:40,241 --> 00:06:42,973 this tubular, flexible plastic structure, 143 00:06:42,973 --> 00:06:44,466 and it circulates through this thing, 144 00:06:44,466 --> 00:06:47,178 and there's sunlight of course, it's at the surface, 145 00:06:47,178 --> 00:06:49,583 and the algae grow on the nutrients. 146 00:06:49,583 --> 00:06:52,005 But this is a bit like putting your head in a plastic bag. 147 00:06:52,005 --> 00:06:55,247 The algae are not going to suffocate because of CO2, 148 00:06:55,262 --> 00:06:56,101 as we would. 149 00:06:56,101 --> 00:06:58,760 They suffocate because they produce oxygen, and they 150 00:06:58,760 --> 00:07:00,936 don't really suffocate, but the oxygen that they produce 151 00:07:00,936 --> 00:07:04,040 is problematic, and they use up all the CO2. 152 00:07:04,040 --> 00:07:06,472 So the next thing we had to figure out was how we could 153 00:07:06,472 --> 00:07:09,701 remove the oxygen, which we did by building this column 154 00:07:09,701 --> 00:07:11,178 which circulated some of the water, 155 00:07:11,178 --> 00:07:14,548 and put back CO2, which we did by bubbling the system 156 00:07:14,548 --> 00:07:17,000 before we recirculated the water. 157 00:07:17,000 --> 00:07:18,704 And what you see here is the prototype, 158 00:07:18,704 --> 00:07:22,502 which was the first attempt at building this type of column. 159 00:07:22,502 --> 00:07:24,942 The larger column that we then installed in San Francisco 160 00:07:24,942 --> 00:07:26,570 in the installed system. 161 00:07:26,570 --> 00:07:29,968 So the column actually had another very nice feature, 162 00:07:29,968 --> 00:07:33,085 and that is the algae settle in the column, 163 00:07:33,085 --> 00:07:36,659 and this allowed us to accumulate the algal biomass 164 00:07:36,659 --> 00:07:39,626 in a context where we could easily harvest it. 165 00:07:39,626 --> 00:07:42,401 So we would remove the algaes that concentrated 166 00:07:42,401 --> 00:07:44,969 in the bottom of this column, and then we could 167 00:07:44,969 --> 00:07:48,792 harvest that by a procedure where you float the algae 168 00:07:48,792 --> 00:07:52,688 to the surface and can skim it off with a net. 169 00:07:52,688 --> 00:07:56,325 So we wanted to also investigate what would be the impact 170 00:07:56,325 --> 00:07:59,256 of this system in the marine environment, 171 00:07:59,256 --> 00:08:02,736 and I mentioned we set up this experiment at a field site 172 00:08:02,736 --> 00:08:04,976 in Moss Landing Marine Lab. 173 00:08:04,976 --> 00:08:07,816 Well, we found of course that this material became 174 00:08:07,816 --> 00:08:10,728 overgrown with algae, and we needed then to develop 175 00:08:10,728 --> 00:08:13,136 a cleaning procedure, and we also looked at how 176 00:08:13,136 --> 00:08:16,073 seabirds and marine mammals interacted, and in fact you 177 00:08:16,073 --> 00:08:19,096 see here a sea otter that found this incredibly interesting, 178 00:08:19,096 --> 00:08:22,200 and would periodically work its way across this little 179 00:08:22,200 --> 00:08:25,088 floating water bed, and we wanted to hire this guy 180 00:08:25,088 --> 00:08:27,177 or train him to be able to clean the surface 181 00:08:27,177 --> 00:08:29,584 of these things, but that's for the future. 182 00:08:29,584 --> 00:08:30,905 Now really what we were doing, 183 00:08:30,905 --> 00:08:32,677 we were working in four areas. 184 00:08:32,677 --> 00:08:35,560 Our research covered the biology of the system, 185 00:08:35,560 --> 00:08:37,728 which included studying the way algae grew, 186 00:08:37,728 --> 00:08:41,377 but also what eats the algae, and what kills the algae. 187 00:08:41,377 --> 00:08:43,556 We did engineering to understand what we would need 188 00:08:43,556 --> 00:08:45,849 to be able to do to build this structure, 189 00:08:45,849 --> 00:08:48,552 not only on the small scale, but how we would build it 190 00:08:48,552 --> 00:08:51,868 on this enormous scale that will ultimately be required. 191 00:08:51,868 --> 00:08:55,068 I mentioned we looked at birds and marine mammals 192 00:08:55,068 --> 00:08:57,597 and looked at basically the environmental impact 193 00:08:57,597 --> 00:09:00,748 of the system, and finally we looked at the economics, 194 00:09:00,748 --> 00:09:02,395 and what I mean by economics is, 195 00:09:02,395 --> 00:09:05,500 what is the energy required to run the system? 196 00:09:05,500 --> 00:09:06,922 Do you get more energy out of the system 197 00:09:06,922 --> 00:09:08,503 than you have to put into the system 198 00:09:08,503 --> 00:09:10,516 to be able to make the system run? 199 00:09:10,516 --> 00:09:12,262 And what about operating costs? 200 00:09:12,262 --> 00:09:14,320 And what about capital costs? 201 00:09:14,320 --> 00:09:18,478 And what about, just, the whole economic structure? 202 00:09:18,478 --> 00:09:21,196 So let me tell you that it's not going to be easy, 203 00:09:21,196 --> 00:09:23,756 and there's lots more work to do in all four 204 00:09:23,756 --> 00:09:27,348 of those areas to be able to really make the system work. 205 00:09:27,348 --> 00:09:30,268 But we don't have a lot of time, and I'd like to show you 206 00:09:30,268 --> 00:09:33,770 the artist's conception of how this system might look 207 00:09:33,770 --> 00:09:36,450 if we find ourselves in a protected bay 208 00:09:36,450 --> 00:09:39,634 somewhere in the world, and we have in the background 209 00:09:39,634 --> 00:09:42,402 in this image, the waste water treatment plant 210 00:09:42,402 --> 00:09:45,275 and a source of flue gas for the CO2, 211 00:09:45,275 --> 00:09:48,010 but when you do the economics of this system, 212 00:09:48,010 --> 00:09:51,082 you find that in fact it will be difficult to make it work. 213 00:09:51,082 --> 00:09:55,652 Unless you look at the system as a way to treat waste water, 214 00:09:55,652 --> 00:09:59,380 sequester carbon, and potentially for photovoltaic panels 215 00:09:59,380 --> 00:10:02,860 or wave energy or even wind energy, 216 00:10:02,860 --> 00:10:04,131 and if you start thinking in terms of 217 00:10:04,131 --> 00:10:07,172 integrating all of these different activities, 218 00:10:07,172 --> 00:10:11,819 you could also include in such a facility aquaculture. 219 00:10:11,819 --> 00:10:14,747 So we would have under this system a shellfish aquaculture 220 00:10:14,747 --> 00:10:16,841 where we're growing mussels or scallops. 221 00:10:16,841 --> 00:10:19,833 We'd be growing oysters and things 222 00:10:19,833 --> 00:10:22,671 that would be producing high value products and food, 223 00:10:22,671 --> 00:10:25,441 and this would be a market driver as we build the system 224 00:10:25,441 --> 00:10:28,755 to larger and larger scales so that it becomes, ultimately, 225 00:10:28,755 --> 00:10:34,556 competitive with the idea of doing it for fuels. 226 00:10:34,556 --> 00:10:37,253 So there's always a big question that comes up, 227 00:10:37,253 --> 00:10:40,597 because plastic in the ocean has got a really bad reputation 228 00:10:40,597 --> 00:10:43,586 right now, and so we've been thinking cradle to cradle. 229 00:10:43,586 --> 00:10:46,303 What are we going to do with all this plastic that we're 230 00:10:46,303 --> 00:10:49,044 going to need to use in our marine environment? 231 00:10:49,044 --> 00:10:50,562 Well, I don't know if you know about this, 232 00:10:50,562 --> 00:10:53,324 but in California, there's a huge amount of plastic 233 00:10:53,324 --> 00:10:56,669 that's used in fields right now as plastic mulch, 234 00:10:56,669 --> 00:10:59,893 and this is plastic that's making these tiny little greenhouses 235 00:10:59,893 --> 00:11:02,644 right along the surface of the soil, and this provides 236 00:11:02,644 --> 00:11:05,902 warming the soil to increase the growing season, 237 00:11:05,902 --> 00:11:08,445 it allows us to control weeds, 238 00:11:08,445 --> 00:11:12,037 and, of course, it makes the watering much more efficient. 239 00:11:12,037 --> 00:11:14,350 So the OMEGA system will be part 240 00:11:14,350 --> 00:11:17,429 of this type of an outcome, and that when we're finished 241 00:11:17,429 --> 00:11:20,118 using it in the marine environment, we'll be using it, 242 00:11:20,118 --> 00:11:22,671 hopefully, on fields. 243 00:11:22,671 --> 00:11:23,991 Where are we going to put this, 244 00:11:23,991 --> 00:11:26,502 and what will it look like offshore? 245 00:11:26,502 --> 00:11:29,493 Here's an image of what we could do in San Francisco Bay. 246 00:11:29,493 --> 00:11:32,173 San Francisco produces 65 million gallons a day 247 00:11:32,173 --> 00:11:34,933 of waste water. If we imagine a five-day retention time 248 00:11:34,933 --> 00:11:37,302 for this system, we'd need 325 million gallons 249 00:11:37,302 --> 00:11:41,328 to accomodate, and that would be about 1,280 acres 250 00:11:41,328 --> 00:11:44,947 of these OMEGA modules floating in San Francisco Bay. 251 00:11:44,947 --> 00:11:46,741 Well, that's less than one percent 252 00:11:46,741 --> 00:11:48,492 of the surface area of the bay. 253 00:11:48,492 --> 00:11:52,234 It would produce, at 2,000 gallons per acre per year, 254 00:11:52,234 --> 00:11:55,230 it would produce over 2 million gallons of fuel, 255 00:11:55,230 --> 00:11:57,430 which is about 20 percent of the biodiesel, 256 00:11:57,430 --> 00:12:00,438 or of the diesel that would be required in San Francisco, 257 00:12:00,438 --> 00:12:03,628 and that's without doing anything about efficiency. 258 00:12:03,628 --> 00:12:06,598 Where else could we potentially put this system? 259 00:12:06,598 --> 00:12:09,498 There's lots of possibilities. 260 00:12:09,498 --> 00:12:11,550 There's, of course, San Francisco Bay, as I mentioned. 261 00:12:11,550 --> 00:12:13,366 San Diego Bay is another example, 262 00:12:13,366 --> 00:12:16,279 Mobile Bay or Chesapeake Bay, but the reality is, 263 00:12:16,279 --> 00:12:18,371 as sea level rises, there's going to be lots and lots 264 00:12:18,371 --> 00:12:22,278 of new opportunities to consider. (Laughter) 265 00:12:22,278 --> 00:12:25,846 So what I'm telling you about is a system 266 00:12:25,846 --> 00:12:29,478 of integrated activities. 267 00:12:29,478 --> 00:12:32,088 Biofuels production is integrated with alternative energy 268 00:12:32,088 --> 00:12:34,890 is integrated with aquaculture. 269 00:12:34,890 --> 00:12:38,814 I set out to find a pathway 270 00:12:38,814 --> 00:12:44,460 to innovative production of sustainable biofuels, 271 00:12:44,460 --> 00:12:47,708 and en route I discovered that what's really required 272 00:12:47,708 --> 00:12:54,985 for sustainability is integration more than innovation. 273 00:12:54,985 --> 00:12:58,415 Long term, I have great faith 274 00:12:58,415 --> 00:13:03,560 in our collective and connected ingenuity. 275 00:13:03,560 --> 00:13:07,876 I think there is almost no limit to what we can accomplish 276 00:13:07,876 --> 00:13:10,078 if we are radically open 277 00:13:10,078 --> 00:13:13,808 and we don't care who gets the credit. 278 00:13:13,808 --> 00:13:18,024 Sustainable solutions for our future problems 279 00:13:18,024 --> 00:13:20,424 are going to be diverse 280 00:13:20,424 --> 00:13:22,889 and are going to be many. 281 00:13:22,889 --> 00:13:25,680 I think we need to consider everything, 282 00:13:25,680 --> 00:13:28,712 everything from alpha to OMEGA. 283 00:13:28,712 --> 00:13:31,592 Thank you. (Applause) 284 00:13:31,592 --> 00:13:36,942 (Applause) 285 00:13:37,347 --> 00:13:40,559 Chris Anderson: Just a quick question for you, Jonathan. 286 00:13:40,559 --> 00:13:42,767 Can this project continue to move forward within 287 00:13:42,767 --> 00:13:46,732 NASA or do you need some very ambitious 288 00:13:46,732 --> 00:13:50,808 green energy fund to come and take it by the throat? 289 00:13:50,808 --> 00:13:52,111 Jonathan Trent: So it's really gotten to a stage now 290 00:13:52,111 --> 00:13:55,125 in NASA where they would like to spin it out into something 291 00:13:55,125 --> 00:13:57,516 which would go offshore, and there are a lot of issues 292 00:13:57,516 --> 00:13:59,743 with doing it in the United States because of limited 293 00:13:59,743 --> 00:14:02,237 permitting issues and the time required to get permits 294 00:14:02,237 --> 00:14:03,751 to do things offshore. 295 00:14:03,751 --> 00:14:06,549 It really requires, at this point, people on the outside, 296 00:14:06,549 --> 00:14:08,853 and we're being radically open with this technology 297 00:14:08,853 --> 00:14:10,565 in which we're going to launch it out there 298 00:14:10,565 --> 00:14:12,841 for anybody and everybody who's interested 299 00:14:12,841 --> 00:14:14,681 to take it on and try to make it real. 300 00:14:14,681 --> 00:14:17,158 CA: So that's interesting. You're not patenting it. 301 00:14:17,158 --> 00:14:18,833 You're publishing it. 302 00:14:18,833 --> 00:14:19,596 JT: Absolutely. 303 00:14:19,596 --> 00:14:21,487 CA: All right. Thank you so much. 304 00:14:21,487 --> 00:14:25,062 JT: Thank you. (Applause)