0:00:08.134,0:00:10.920
JENNIFER ALLORA: Pass me the [br]vacuum cleaner thing again.

0:00:10.920,0:00:13.654
This is definitely the spot for the trombone.

0:00:14.200,0:00:16.981
It’s going to be like that with [br]that thing, with a hand here.

0:00:16.981,0:00:17.481
GUILLERMO CALZADILLA: Yeah.

0:00:17.514,0:00:19.320
ALLORA: And then we’re going to [br]have to extend the mouthpiece

0:00:19.320,0:00:21.500
so you can actually sit there and play it.

0:00:22.277,0:00:23.335
CALZADILLA: That’s perfect. Cymbals.

0:00:23.440,0:00:25.371
ALLORA: And then a trumpet over there.

0:00:25.371,0:00:26.887
CALZADILLA: A trom...[br]ALLORA: It has to go like up and out like that.

0:00:26.887,0:00:31.721
CALZADILLA: Twenty feet in diameter. [br]That’s great. That’s funny.

0:00:35.512,0:00:36.760
CALZADILLA: It looks like a gun.

0:00:36.760,0:00:40.260
ALLORA: We’ll cut this part out so you [br]can get in closer, but for now at least...

0:00:40.260,0:00:43.768
CALZADILLA: Play...play it [br]there to see. Really loud.

0:00:46.100,0:00:49.080
CALZADILLA: That’s the tuba over there...

0:00:49.080,0:00:51.912
ALLORA: Yeah, and then we have [br]this one, an award tuba...

0:00:56.299,0:00:58.610
CALZADILLA: How do you call this thing?

0:00:59.282,0:01:00.947
ALLORA: Cymbal. That’s also good.

0:01:07.361,0:01:12.440
ALLORA: What we do often with our projects is [br]it’s kind of an excuse to research something.

0:01:12.440,0:01:15.000
ALLORA: This here is the same thing, [br]like see how it is like the cannons...

0:01:15.000,0:01:15.680
CALZADILLA: Yeah.

0:01:15.680,0:01:17.040
ALLORA: This is what the openings are for.

0:01:17.040,0:01:18.280
It was for the weapon.

0:01:19.000,0:01:22.680
It’s this chance to learn more [br]about something in the world

0:01:22.680,0:01:25.481
and be able to formulate some kind of response.

0:01:27.120,0:01:29.920
ALLORA: Alright so, this was this one about the…

0:01:32.160,0:01:34.760
the sounds for the news networks and

0:01:34.760,0:01:38.360
what they use to represent [br]the coverage of the war.

0:01:38.864,0:01:43.480
CALZADILLA: Now we’re making [br]basically an archive of music of war

0:01:43.480,0:01:46.720
from different times and places in the world.

0:01:46.720,0:01:48.120
It’s called CLAMOR.

0:01:48.120,0:01:51.080
It’s about music of war, music as a…

0:01:51.080,0:01:52.680
as a sound weapon.

0:01:53.772,0:01:57.680
CALZADILLA: So for example, there you [br]have a trumpet from the American Civil War

0:01:57.680,0:01:59.880
mixed up with a Japanese tuba,

0:01:59.880,0:02:04.400
basically sounds of all different [br]eras until today making this montage

0:02:04.400,0:02:06.040
that is going to be part of two things.

0:02:06.040,0:02:07.706
One is going to be part of a sculpture,

0:02:08.840,0:02:14.200
in which basically is gonna be a concert [br]but the band is going to be live musicians,

0:02:14.200,0:02:17.288
are going to be inside this [br]object, this sculpture.

0:02:21.973,0:02:24.120
ALLORA: From the very [br]beginning of our work together,

0:02:24.120,0:02:25.720
we’re interested in materials.

0:02:25.720,0:02:30.380
What are the meanings are connoted [br]by the use of certain materials.

0:02:30.884,0:02:34.320
CALZADILLA: Certain materials [br]talk or speak of their usage

0:02:34.320,0:02:37.160
and have like a practical function.

0:02:37.160,0:02:40.601
But you know there’s also this [br]symbolic dimension that a material has.

0:02:42.576,0:02:47.520
ALLORA: In the case of CHALK we were [br]just interested in the matter-of-factness

0:02:47.520,0:02:48.640
of what chalk is.

0:02:48.640,0:02:51.187
It is at once an ideological...

0:02:51.187,0:02:51.932
CALZADILLA: Tool.

0:02:51.932,0:02:53.340
ALLORA: ...something that [br]you find in the classroom.

0:02:53.340,0:02:54.714
CALZADILLA: That is ideological.

0:02:54.714,0:02:56.480
ALLORA: But it’s also a geological substance.

0:02:56.480,0:02:59.400
It’s...chalk is something that’s [br]found naturally in the earth,

0:02:59.400,0:03:04.006
and because of its nature [br]it is ephemeral and fragile.

0:03:07.010,0:03:09.240
CALZADILLA: This idea of [br]making these gigantic chalks,

0:03:09.240,0:03:12.837
you can write big words, physically, [br]but perhaps also symbolically.

0:03:17.165,0:03:19.640
ALLORA: Our idea was to place the chalks

0:03:19.640,0:03:25.160
where the governmental [br]buildings of Peru are located.

0:03:25.160,0:03:28.360
Every day if they would allow for protestors to go

0:03:28.360,0:03:31.200
and make a kind of lap around the plaza,

0:03:31.200,0:03:35.901
and that’s your opportunity to publicly [br]voice whatever demands you might have.

0:03:38.447,0:03:43.200
ALLORA: The protestors, they realize [br]it was like another way to vocalize

0:03:43.200,0:03:45.840
and to make visible their demands.

0:03:45.840,0:03:49.280
People were writing they’re [br]for this political party,

0:03:49.280,0:03:51.780
and then someone would cross it [br]out and write something else.

0:03:52.410,0:03:55.100
CALZADILLA: People writing declarations of love.

0:03:55.226,0:03:57.960
ALLORA: And it really became [br]a complex sort of forum

0:03:57.960,0:04:00.309
that was all being registered on this floor.

0:04:01.191,0:04:03.720
CALZADILLA: It’s not like a [br]sculpture that has one end

0:04:03.720,0:04:05.840
or is only used in one particular way.

0:04:05.840,0:04:08.240
You have all this multiplicity of positions.

0:04:09.017,0:04:13.320
ALLORA: That piece has the potential [br]to actively disrupt what are

0:04:13.320,0:04:15.968
the norms of a particular setting.

0:04:18.279,0:04:21.120
CALZADILLA: A police squad, [br]they arrested the sculpture.

0:04:21.120,0:04:23.622
They took all the chalk, they [br]put them in a military truck …

0:04:23.622,0:04:24.710
ALLORA: (INTERRUPTING) They [br]put them in a paddy wagon.

0:04:24.710,0:04:25.564
CALZADILLA: … and they took them away.

0:04:26.320,0:04:30.329
It shows the limits of free speech [br]in a so-called democratic society,

0:04:30.720,0:04:34.400
but also talks about sculpture [br]and about historical references,

0:04:34.400,0:04:35.777
about poetic dimension.

0:04:40.000,0:04:44.120
ALLORA: This thing that comes [br]from...from Ottoman music.

0:04:44.120,0:04:45.880
It’s like this...we argued,

0:04:45.880,0:04:49.000
this is I think probably what [br]it made most close to each other

0:04:49.000,0:04:52.760
and really defines our relationship [br]as a collaborative and as…

0:04:52.760,0:04:54.280
personally is our fighting.

0:04:54.280,0:04:55.520
We just like have…

0:04:55.520,0:04:58.760
make it an art form to argue with [br]each other, about everything.

0:04:58.760,0:05:02.720
But in a way that’s good because [br]it’s kind of like going to battle

0:05:02.720,0:05:05.680
because finally at the end [br]of the day when we both have,

0:05:05.680,0:05:09.280
you know, gave it our best with each other,[br]we settle on something,

0:05:09.280,0:05:13.984
what’s left over is what we both truly [br]agree with and truly find in common.

0:05:13.984,0:05:16.520
CALZADILLA: Ah, but it’s more questioning.

0:05:16.520,0:05:20.480
It’s this endless...endless questioning [br]of anything but why this and not that.

0:05:20.480,0:05:24.000
ALLORA: Exactly. I mean it’s [br]not...not trivial or childlike.

0:05:24.000,0:05:25.400
But it’s constantly arguing.

0:05:25.400,0:05:27.520
ALLORA: Okay, let’s just try things out now.

0:05:27.520,0:05:28.734
That’s the...that’s the point.

0:05:28.734,0:05:29.272
CALZADILLA: All right.

0:05:29.272,0:05:33.080
ALLORA: At the end those things that we [br]both can’t argue with each other about,

0:05:33.080,0:05:35.512
are the things that we tend to then, you know,

0:05:36.520,0:05:40.351
use as starting points to move [br]forward in some project of ours.

0:05:42.935,0:05:46.520
CALZADILLA: Humor can be beautiful, [br]can be horrific, can be political…

0:05:46.520,0:05:47.720
can be poetic, can be transformative.

0:05:47.720,0:05:49.105
ALLORA: It can be transformative [br]. . . and it can be critical.

0:05:49.105,0:05:50.760
CALZADILLA: But what I like is that physically,

0:05:50.760,0:05:55.760
it’s a physiological transformation that [br]this thing there still has affected you.

0:05:55.760,0:05:59.360
We finding each other laughing at the same thing

0:05:59.360,0:06:02.460
was a recognition that we [br]both identify with this thing.

0:06:02.460,0:06:08.230
ALLORA: And that became a way for us to find [br]things in common and identify with each other.

0:06:12.612,0:06:15.279
(SOUND OF HORN)

0:06:15.279,0:06:18.600
ALLORA: Sometimes, though, we see [br]things that aren’t like a joke,

0:06:18.600,0:06:21.800
but it’s rather just this sort of incredible,

0:06:21.800,0:06:25.400
absurd, unusual juxtaposition [br]of something that just seems

0:06:25.400,0:06:29.560
totally out of place but at the same [br]time seems perfectly sensible and right.

0:06:32.796,0:06:38.040
ALLORA: We were interested in the activity [br]that was happening in the Island of Vieques

0:06:38.040,0:06:42.520
which is off the mainland of Puerto [br]Rico used as this bomb testing site.

0:06:43.360,0:06:47.320
CALZADILLA: This was filmed the [br]week that they opened the land

0:06:47.320,0:06:51.600
that was previously occupied for sixty [br]years by the military to the population.

0:06:51.600,0:06:54.440
You have people who their entire [br]lives that have never been able to

0:06:54.440,0:06:55.960
go around the entire island.

0:06:55.960,0:06:58.995
So this is the first time [br]that this entire land is open.

0:07:06.000,0:07:10.600
ALLORA: And it felt like some sort of [br]commemorative sound should accompany that,

0:07:10.600,0:07:13.280
be emblematic of that popular struggle

0:07:13.280,0:07:16.040
which in common terms is [br]usually understood as an anthem.

0:07:16.040,0:07:18.720
CALZADILLA: So we looked into [br]the etymology of the word anthem

0:07:18.720,0:07:20.720
and we find something that we like much more,

0:07:20.720,0:07:22.501
which is the sounding in answer.

0:07:23.404,0:07:25.581
And so we call it RETURNING A SOUND.

0:07:30.901,0:07:35.840
CALZADILLA: The acceleration of the [br]motorcycle and all the accidents in the roads,

0:07:35.840,0:07:39.000
the bumps, generated a score,

0:07:39.000,0:07:42.634
a musical composition that [br]was completely accidental.

0:07:50.000,0:07:52.840
ALLORA: It was really interesting [br]to see the reaction of that work,

0:07:52.840,0:07:55.120
and I remember there was one person who,

0:07:55.120,0:07:57.280
he was like screaming when the land came open

0:07:57.280,0:08:01.473
and he liked the fact that the [br]trumpet in a way was like a scream.

0:08:21.815,0:08:24.760
ALLORA: In Vieques in fact, [br]while there were so many people

0:08:24.760,0:08:26.360
who had one thing in common,

0:08:26.360,0:08:28.346
get the military out of Vieques,

0:08:28.640,0:08:32.778
the majority of them are in complete disagreement [br]about every other aspect of the island.

0:08:33.240,0:08:36.249
CALZADILLA: So we somehow wanted [br]to mobilize this discussion.

0:08:40.000,0:08:42.000
ALLORA: Through the metaphor [br]of the discussion table

0:08:42.000,0:08:45.034
we arrived at this work which [br]we call UNDER DISCUSSION.

0:08:45.034,0:08:59.667
(SOUND OF OUTBOARD MOTOR)

0:08:59.667,0:09:02.280
ALLORA: We used this person [br]to take the discussion table

0:09:02.280,0:09:05.609
into the areas whose fate is uncertain.

0:09:13.600,0:09:16.560
There is something in that antagonism or tension

0:09:16.560,0:09:19.310
that could be understood anywhere in the world.

0:09:20.381,0:09:22.000
While their actions are absurd,

0:09:22.000,0:09:25.200
like taking the discussion table [br]of the island and making it a boat,

0:09:25.200,0:09:27.840
it’s like a way to confront something which

0:09:27.840,0:09:30.320
may seem in general overwhelming

0:09:30.320,0:09:33.558
and finding a way to own it [br]and then contribute something.

0:09:36.710,0:09:39.040
ALLORA: You know that’s kind [br]of the nature of making art,

0:09:39.040,0:09:41.840
is to do that, is to kind of [br]turn something upside down

0:09:41.840,0:09:43.360
and then when you see it upside down,

0:09:43.360,0:09:45.080
then you start to see it completely differently

0:09:45.080,0:09:46.734
and new meanings come out of it.

0:09:58.558,0:10:02.642
ALLORA: Both of our backgrounds was [br]informed by studies in the sciences.

0:10:03.840,0:10:11.257
Forms like geology, biology, light, we [br]look at through the lens of an artist.

0:10:14.493,0:10:17.840
CALZADILLA: Our scientific [br]interest comes in filter,

0:10:17.840,0:10:21.101
I think, through absurdity or pure nonsense.

0:10:38.600,0:10:43.609
ALLORA: SWEAT GLANDS, SWEAT LANDS was one of [br]the more complicated video projects.

0:10:47.937,0:10:50.600
CALZADILLA: Come Christmastime, [br]everyone fries their pork,

0:10:50.600,0:10:54.034
you have to fry that pork [br]for hours with your hands.

0:10:57.101,0:10:59.880
CALZADILLA: That piece of metal [br]in which the pork is fried,

0:10:59.880,0:11:03.160
we had welded to the back wheel of a car

0:11:03.160,0:11:05.410
when you accelerate and the pork rotates.

0:11:07.111,0:11:11.000
ALLORA: And understanding the logic [br]of the spit as a kind of connection

0:11:11.000,0:11:12.620
between these two systems...

0:11:12.620,0:11:14.543
CALZADILLA: They had a symbolic dimension.

0:11:20.993,0:11:22.600
ALLORA: The guy, he’s not really doing anything,

0:11:22.600,0:11:25.520
he’s just sitting there kind of overseeing this…

0:11:25.520,0:11:26.480
this activity.

0:11:26.480,0:11:30.800
He’s smoking himself so he’s being [br]smoked while the pork is being smoked.

0:11:33.153,0:11:35.164
CALZADILLA: This is a very violent image.

0:11:36.214,0:11:38.040
ALLORA: I’m interested in that violence of it.

0:11:38.040,0:11:41.640
I’m interested in the [br]grotesque and vulgarity of it

0:11:41.640,0:11:49.604
because I think it speaks to a kind of [br]excessive overheating of society and violence.

0:12:00.000,0:12:02.920
ALLORA: So just to reiterate, [br]they were the first thing was

0:12:02.920,0:12:07.480
to use your instruments to [br]make a kind of abstract sounds

0:12:07.480,0:12:09.520
that are very strong and loud,

0:12:09.520,0:12:11.000
like a siren or an ambulance

0:12:11.000,0:12:13.500
or any other kind of reference [br]you want to think about.

0:12:13.899,0:12:15.440
CALZADILLA: For us it’s very important,

0:12:15.440,0:12:21.615
the idea of having a work that have [br]all these contradictions in itself.

0:12:22.560,0:12:26.120
How can you put all these things that [br]have nothing to do with the other one?

0:12:26.120,0:12:27.040
Well, you use glue.

0:12:27.040,0:12:29.160
You use an ideological glue.

0:12:29.160,0:12:43.889
(LIVE MUSIC)

0:12:44.120,0:12:45.840
CALZADILLA: This frustration, this absurdity,

0:12:45.840,0:12:47.400
this nonsense, this paradox,

0:12:47.400,0:12:49.734
all these things constitute [br]part of the meaning of the work.

0:12:49.734,0:12:52.978
(LIVE MUSIC)