0:00:00.896,0:00:05.532
Corey Hajim: Today, our guest[br]is Dan Schulman, CEO of PayPal.

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When most of us think of PayPal,[br]we think of buying something online

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or paying a friend back[br]for a drink using Venmo.

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But PayPal has also become[br]a major financial services player,

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often acting as an alternative[br]to a traditional bank.

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During this pandemic,

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PayPal has supported small businesses[br]around the world by providing loans,

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waiving fees

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and increasing cash back programs.

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It has also worked with the US government

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on its Paycheck Protection Program,

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as well as distributing stimulus checks.

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It has enabled an outpouring[br]of generosity online as well.

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The trend towards digital payments,

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or what we might now want[br]to think of as "contactless payments,"

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has massively accelerated,

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and it's changing forever[br]how we think about commerce.

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So I'm really excited[br]to have Dan here with us.

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Thank you so much, Dan.

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Dan Schulman: Thanks for having me, Corey.[br]Pleasure to be here with you.

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CH: Glad to see you.

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So let's dive right in.

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Within a few months[br]of this pandemic's arrival,

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more than 30 million people[br]have filed for unemployment

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in the United States alone.

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These are certainly unusual circumstances,

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but it seems clear we were running[br]very close to the edge,

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and now so many businesses[br]and their employees

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are facing huge financial challenges.

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How worried are you?

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DS: Well, I think the crisis[br]has exposed three things.

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Obviously, it's a health crisis

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for so many people.

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Second thing is,[br]that health crisis has ricocheted,

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and the world is now[br]in an economic crisis.

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And the third crisis[br]that we don't talk so much about

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but I think is impacting the way

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that we're going to live[br]our lives going forward

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is: this is a psychological[br]crisis as well.

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People are reexamining[br]their place in the world,

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what's happening in the world,

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how they're going to live their lives,

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both in the pandemic and postpandemic.

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And so I think this is something[br]that each of those phases

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will need to be dealt with.

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But you said this,

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and I completely agree with you:

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there was an economic crisis happening

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well before the pandemic exposed this.

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It's kind of like[br]the water level came down

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and exposed what was already there.

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You had, for instance, in the US,

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185 million adults in the US

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struggling to make ends meet[br]at the end of the month.

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You have over 70 million adults that are[br]really outside of the financial system,

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spending over 140 billion dollars[br]on high interest rates,

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unnecessary fees

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and struggling as well.

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And so I think[br]what this has really done --

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because you can't ignore 20,[br]25 percent unemployment rates --

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it's exposed this crisis

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and forced a lot of people into, maybe,[br]actions that they might not have taken

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without this crisis happening.

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CH: Yeah, I think that's right.

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There are so many challenges[br]and so many opportunities,

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and I think you've spoken[br]of this opportunity

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of digital transactions[br]being helpful to people,

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and obviously the trend, as you've said,

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has massively accelerated and pushed us[br]into this world even further.

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So I'm curious:

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What does the world[br]look like without cash?

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Or less cash?

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What are the advantages[br]and what are the challenges

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of making that transition?

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DS: I think some of the trends that are[br]emerging coming out of this pandemic

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or coming into it[br]and as we look forward is,

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clearly, this has been a discontinuous[br]change in the trend line

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as we move from physical to digital.

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I think we've accelerated[br]many forms of digital capabilities

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by three to five years.

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And that can be from digital payments

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to telemedicine

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to really changing the face of retail

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and how we think about retailing,

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changing the face of entertainment,

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even changing the way governments[br]think about managing and moving money

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and really thinking about[br]digital currencies going forward.

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And so I think there are[br]a tremendous number of changes

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that will occur

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during this pandemic and coming out of it.

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Digital payments is obviously[br]one of the big ones that will happen.

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I mean, cash has been around[br]for quite some time,

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thousands of years.

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I would not be so bold[br]as to predict its full demise.

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Many people have been wrong doing that.

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But there is no question right now

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that you will see an acceleration[br]of the demise of cash.

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Last year, you had[br]over 18 trillion dollars of cash

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spent at retail.

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Eighty-five percent[br]of the world's transactions today

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are done in cash still.

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But the really big change right now

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towards digital payments,

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and that's both the advent[br]and the acceleration of commerce

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that's happening,

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as well as the shift to in-store[br]contactless payments, as you said,

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and the real impetus for that[br]is health reasons.

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People do not want to hand over money.

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They do not want to touch screens.

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They don't want to pick up a pen[br]and sign at the point of sale.

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And so there is a demand

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for contactless payments[br]and digital payments

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to keep social distancing[br]requirements in place,

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to protect the health of cashiers,

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to protect the health of consumers.

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And I think we are going to see,[br]we are already seeing in our business,

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a surge in digital payments[br]across the world.

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CH: It seems like a great opportunity,

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but how do we make sure[br]that this transition is inclusive?

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I mean, you've talked about[br]how so many people are underserved

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by the traditional banking industry.

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How do we make sure that those people

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have that opportunity?

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And it feels like a smartphone

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becomes an essential item.

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How do we address that?

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DS: Yeah.

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I do think that a mobile[br]is really a key to unlocking this.

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I've often said that, really,

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one of the big moon shots[br]for the financial services industry

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is this idea of not just[br]financial inclusion.

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Most people define financial inclusion

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by somebody having[br]access to a bank account,

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but just having access to a bank account[br]is not nearly enough.

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I think what we need to aim for

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is how do we think about financial health?

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How do we make sure[br]that people have the ability

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to have some wherewithal

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to create savings to withstand some kind[br]of financial shock to the system?

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I do think that mobile phones

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will be the way that this occurs

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and will be very inclusive going forward.

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There are going to be something like[br]six billion smartphones in the world

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over the next several years.

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The cost of a smartphone is plummeting.

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I think in India now you can buy[br]a smartphone for under 25 dollars.

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So you're going to have ubiquity[br]of smartphones across the world,

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and, in fact, what's very interesting[br]is, in lower-income populations,

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there is a greater penetration[br]of smartphones than in higher income

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because the smartphone[br]is the only device that somebody has.

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Higher-income individuals[br]may have desktops or iPads,

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that kind of thing,

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but lower income can afford one device,

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and they choose it to be a smartphone

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because they can get and live their life[br]through that one device.

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And think about that one device.

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Really, you have all the power[br]of a bank branch

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in the palm of your hands.

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And when you can start[br]to create distribution of services,

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financial services,

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through a smartphone,

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you then are able[br]to manage and move money

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in ways that we couldn't do traditionally.

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In the physical world,

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if you get a check,

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you need to then go[br]to a cash checking place to cash it.

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You stand in line for 30 minutes.

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They then charge you anywhere[br]between two and five percent

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to just change the format of currency

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from a check to cash.

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And then you have cash[br]and you want to pay a bill.

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You need to stand in line again

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at a bill pay,

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and then you have to pay maybe 10 dollars

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for an individual bill as a fee.

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If you do that via a smartphone,

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I believe that not only do you save[br]a tremendous amount of time,

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because if you're outside[br]the financial system,

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managing and moving money[br]is practically a part-time job

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to go and do that,

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so not only do you save time[br]and return time to individuals,

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but you can cut the cost of transactions

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by anywhere between 50 and 75 percent.

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And remember that $140 billion[br]number that I gave you?

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And that's just in the US.

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Imagine if you could cut that in half

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and return that to the most[br]vulnerable populations

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that need it most.

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So I think there's tremendous promise

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in the use of technology

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to help provide both inclusion

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and make sure there aren't[br]digital haves and have-nots,

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but also to start on this journey[br]towards financial health.

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CH: Yeah, I think a lot[br]of people don't realize

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that you don't need a bank[br]account or even a credit card

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to open a PayPal account,

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which is super-interesting.

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I mean, do you see a time[br]where traditional banks don't exist

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or at least play a much smaller role[br]in the financial services industry?

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DS: Well, I think the entire[br]financial services industry

0:11:17.425,0:11:20.306
is evolving right now,

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and so I think banks[br]will always play a role,

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or as far into the future as I can see,

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but it will evolve.

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I mean, think about basic credit cards.

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Today, you think about a credit card,

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and you think about it[br]predominantly as a form factor,

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something that you pull[br]out of your pocket.

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Sometimes there's status associated with[br]what you're pulling out of your pocket,

0:11:47.444,0:11:51.628
depending on the color[br]of that credit card.

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But really I think those[br]form factors start to go away

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and become embedded in digital wallets.

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So credit will always[br]be an important element.

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You know, most people in the world,

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it isn't that their cash outlays[br]exceed their cash intake.

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It's just that they're not[br]evenly distributed.

0:12:14.826,0:12:19.057
So there are times where your[br]cash outflows exceed your cash intake,

0:12:19.081,0:12:24.210
and there, you need some form of credit[br]to make up that difference.

0:12:24.234,0:12:30.402
And so I think forms of credit[br]will always be an important element.

0:12:30.426,0:12:35.509
But the way that you extend credit[br]will change going forward,

0:12:35.533,0:12:38.580
the way that you think[br]about scoring people

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in terms of can they handle credit.

0:12:41.706,0:12:45.531
You know, traditionally,[br]in more developed countries,

0:12:45.555,0:12:49.927
you use what's called[br]FICO scores or bureau scores,

0:12:49.951,0:12:54.348
but those ignore so many[br]of the financial transactions

0:12:54.372,0:12:57.185
that people who are outside[br]the financial system do,

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like paying rent[br]or paying their bills on time.

0:13:00.657,0:13:06.841
And with the data and information[br]and machine learning around that --

0:13:06.865,0:13:09.251
and we need to be careful[br]that there aren't biases

0:13:09.275,0:13:12.017
built into those algorithms --

0:13:12.041,0:13:15.538
we can start to do things[br]that could never be done before.

0:13:15.562,0:13:18.118
I'll just give you one quick example.

0:13:18.142,0:13:23.091
We're one of the largest providers[br]of working capital to small businesses

0:13:23.115,0:13:24.658
in the world.

0:13:24.682,0:13:28.307
We're probably one of the top five[br]in the United States.

0:13:28.331,0:13:32.166
So we've done over 14, 15 billion dollars

0:13:32.190,0:13:35.165
of lending of working capital[br]to small businesses.

0:13:35.551,0:13:40.483
Seventy percent of that[br]goes to the 30 percent of counties

0:13:40.507,0:13:44.630
where 10 or more banks[br]have closed branches.

0:13:44.654,0:13:46.513
And where do banks close branches?

0:13:46.537,0:13:49.384
Banks close branches in neighborhoods

0:13:49.408,0:13:52.873
where the median income[br]is below the national average,

0:13:52.897,0:13:56.458
which makes sense because[br]for a branch to be profitable,

0:13:56.482,0:13:59.153
they need a certain amount of deposits

0:13:59.177,0:14:01.230
for that branch to actually be profitable.

0:14:01.254,0:14:03.900
And so, in lower income neighborhoods,

0:14:03.924,0:14:06.063
branches are starting to close.

0:14:06.632,0:14:10.469
So why are 70 percent of our loans[br]in those lower income neighborhoods?

0:14:10.493,0:14:12.280
It's because we do machine learning.

0:14:12.304,0:14:15.988
We don't even look at FICO scores[br]or bureau scores.

0:14:16.012,0:14:19.268
We look at a number[br]of different data elements.

0:14:19.292,0:14:23.226
And so we can lend into[br]those lower income neighborhoods

0:14:23.250,0:14:25.140
where nobody else can,

0:14:25.164,0:14:27.121
and when we do that,

0:14:27.145,0:14:32.958
the average sale of a small business[br]goes up by 22 percent.

0:14:32.982,0:14:37.051
And imagine the impact that has[br]on communities and neighborhoods

0:14:37.075,0:14:39.726
where they can finally get[br]the working capital

0:14:39.750,0:14:41.731
to expand those small businesses.

0:14:41.755,0:14:43.856
And I think that's a perfect example

0:14:43.880,0:14:47.765
of the promise of what technology[br]and financial services

0:14:47.789,0:14:49.498
married together can do.

0:14:51.396,0:14:53.626
CH: I think it's so interesting.

0:14:53.650,0:14:55.113
I'm curious.

0:14:55.137,0:15:01.411
The tech industry has been criticized[br]for amassing power over society,

0:15:01.435,0:15:04.678
not that the banking industry[br]isn't criticized.

0:15:04.702,0:15:09.148
But what do you say about people[br]who might be worried about

0:15:09.172,0:15:12.775
tech companies taking on[br]even more influence and control

0:15:12.799,0:15:14.771
over what's happening in their lives?

0:15:15.365,0:15:16.944
DS: Yeah.

0:15:16.968,0:15:23.918
Well, I think what's so important[br]for any company and tech companies

0:15:23.942,0:15:29.698
is to respect the boundaries

0:15:29.722,0:15:33.682
in terms of what consumers expect[br]from a company that serves them.

0:15:34.505,0:15:41.369
I think the most important brand attribute[br]that a company can have is trust,

0:15:41.393,0:15:45.261
and trust comes from the understanding

0:15:45.285,0:15:49.217
that a company respects your privacy

0:15:49.241,0:15:53.922
and will not sell[br]your data or information,

0:15:53.946,0:15:59.865
that it can perform transactions[br]in a secure manner

0:15:59.889,0:16:03.881
so that your transactions are protected.

0:16:03.905,0:16:07.652
And I think those[br]are kind of foundational,

0:16:07.676,0:16:11.914
and I think any company[br]needs to respect that.

0:16:11.938,0:16:16.399
They need to assure that consumers

0:16:16.423,0:16:20.137
have the privacy that they desire

0:16:20.161,0:16:23.572
and the safety and security[br]that is required

0:16:23.596,0:16:25.260
to serve them the right way.

0:16:26.813,0:16:31.951
CH: And obviously, you've gained[br]a lot of trust with the US government.

0:16:31.975,0:16:36.022
Maybe we could talk a little bit[br]about how you've been working with them

0:16:36.046,0:16:40.649
to distribute some money[br]through the Paycheck Protection Program.

0:16:40.673,0:16:41.850
And I was curious,

0:16:41.874,0:16:45.185
I've been reading about it,[br]and it sounds like

0:16:45.209,0:16:48.182
30 million-ish small businesses[br]in the United States

0:16:48.206,0:16:51.241
are able to get those funds,

0:16:51.265,0:16:54.023
but only six million[br]have received the loans.

0:16:54.047,0:16:55.511
What do you think's happened?

0:16:56.515,0:16:57.709
DS: Yep.

0:16:57.733,0:17:03.298
Well, I think initially, the government --[br]and I give them a lot of credit --

0:17:03.322,0:17:06.001
they responded quite quickly

0:17:06.025,0:17:10.139
with a 3 trillion dollar stimulus package.

0:17:10.163,0:17:13.042
These are massive numbers[br]that were happening

0:17:13.066,0:17:16.189
in very condensed time frames.

0:17:16.213,0:17:19.649
We were working with various agencies,

0:17:19.673,0:17:23.572
very closely with the Treasury Department,

0:17:23.596,0:17:28.325
in terms of distribution of the stimulus.

0:17:28.349,0:17:33.767
And they were working literally[br]night and day on this.

0:17:33.791,0:17:37.337
The Small Business Administration[br]was working night and day.

0:17:37.361,0:17:39.857
But these are volumes

0:17:39.881,0:17:44.117
that have never been seen before[br]running through these systems,

0:17:44.141,0:17:48.689
and the first tranche of those loans

0:17:48.713,0:17:49.913
was very difficult.

0:17:49.937,0:17:56.824
There were a lot of technical difficulties[br]in getting those out to small businesses.

0:17:56.848,0:17:59.921
And that first tranche was not enough,

0:17:59.945,0:18:04.238
and it was quickly used,

0:18:04.262,0:18:08.091
and there are still[br]a host of small businesses

0:18:08.115,0:18:09.910
that needed money.

0:18:09.934,0:18:12.214
The second tranche that came out

0:18:12.238,0:18:13.775
is still actually in effect.

0:18:13.799,0:18:15.712
It has not been used up,

0:18:15.736,0:18:18.749
and we are continuing to lend on that.

0:18:18.773,0:18:24.634
We've been able to lend[br]to some 50,000 small businesses.

0:18:24.658,0:18:27.804
We've lent out about 1.7 billion dollars,

0:18:27.828,0:18:30.824
and our loan size,

0:18:30.848,0:18:32.402
which really I'm proud of,

0:18:32.426,0:18:35.338
is about 31,000 dollars.

0:18:35.362,0:18:39.518
The average that a bank does[br]is between 100 and 125,000 dollars.

0:18:39.542,0:18:44.558
So we are lending[br]to these true small businesses

0:18:44.582,0:18:46.725
on Main Street,

0:18:46.749,0:18:52.188
and I'm proud that we've[br]been able to go do that,

0:18:52.212,0:18:56.288
and I think we should give credit[br]to the US government

0:18:56.312,0:18:58.512
and governments around the world

0:18:58.536,0:19:01.362
that are taking this quite seriously

0:19:01.386,0:19:05.901
and putting a tremendous amount,[br]a percentage of their GDP,

0:19:05.925,0:19:09.356
towards the rescue of small businesses

0:19:09.380,0:19:11.998
and towards trying[br]to take care of consumers

0:19:12.022,0:19:16.801
that find themselves[br]in really difficult straits right now.

0:19:16.825,0:19:18.237
And we've been trying to,

0:19:18.261,0:19:23.738
instead of people mailing out checks,[br]which is ridiculous in today's world --

0:19:23.762,0:19:26.853
people aren't living where they think[br]they're going to be living,

0:19:26.877,0:19:30.478
they're with their parents or with friends[br]or in a different location,

0:19:30.502,0:19:31.710
and mailing a check

0:19:31.734,0:19:34.678
and then having to take a check[br]and go somewhere,

0:19:34.702,0:19:37.201
which you can't even go[br]if you're sheltered in place,

0:19:37.225,0:19:38.389
to cash it,

0:19:38.413,0:19:41.135
doing that electronically[br]just makes a ton more sense --

0:19:41.159,0:19:43.921
and we've been working[br]with the IRS and Treasury

0:19:43.945,0:19:47.669
and other government agencies[br]to distribute that electronically.

0:19:49.429,0:19:51.236
CH: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

0:19:51.260,0:19:54.312
It's a massive, massive project

0:19:54.336,0:19:56.129
for all of us.

0:19:56.153,0:19:59.454
Whitney is here with some questions[br]from our community.

0:20:00.052,0:20:01.527
DS: Hello, Whitney.

0:20:01.551,0:20:04.021
Whitney Pennington Rodgers:[br]Hello Dan. How are you?

0:20:04.045,0:20:06.258
So the community has[br]some interesting questions

0:20:06.282,0:20:09.481
following up on what you[br]were talking about earlier about security.

0:20:09.505,0:20:11.183
We have a question from Marc --

0:20:11.207,0:20:14.183
and I apologize in advance[br]if I mispronounce your name, Marc --

0:20:14.207,0:20:15.385
Marc Vanlerberghe:

0:20:15.409,0:20:17.731
"The move to digital cash[br]could be one more step

0:20:17.755,0:20:20.032
towards creating the perfect[br]surveillance state.

0:20:20.056,0:20:21.871
How do we avoid this from happening?"

0:20:23.080,0:20:26.073
DS: Yeah, well, this is what[br]I was talking about, Marc, before.

0:20:26.097,0:20:31.517
I mean, I think this idea of trust

0:20:31.541,0:20:34.302
is incredibly important.

0:20:34.326,0:20:39.106
I think the only companies[br]that will be successful --

0:20:39.130,0:20:43.591
and I think we hold a lot of this[br]in our own hands as consumers, by the way;

0:20:43.615,0:20:47.190
we need to be aware of data[br]and information that we're giving

0:20:47.214,0:20:50.159
and to what companies[br]we're doing that with --

0:20:50.183,0:20:53.676
but I think the companies[br]that will be successful

0:20:53.700,0:20:56.422
are those that have[br]a high degree of trust,

0:20:56.446,0:21:00.917
and trust happens[br]by protecting your privacy

0:21:00.941,0:21:05.915
but also very much assuring[br]that your transactions in a digital world

0:21:05.939,0:21:07.643
are safe and secure.

0:21:07.667,0:21:11.848
I mean, the idea of cybersecurity

0:21:11.872,0:21:13.551
has always been important,

0:21:13.575,0:21:18.707
but is ever more important[br]as we move from physical to digital,

0:21:18.731,0:21:22.370
and that's where[br]large data sets are important,

0:21:22.394,0:21:27.818
because a consumer's identity[br]is stolen every two seconds.

0:21:27.842,0:21:30.931
Every two seconds, some consumer[br]has their identity stolen.

0:21:30.955,0:21:33.453
And so we have to be, for instance,

0:21:33.477,0:21:37.666
we have to be sure[br]that even when you sign in

0:21:37.690,0:21:39.885
with your credentials,

0:21:39.909,0:21:42.266
they're actually real credentials.

0:21:42.290,0:21:47.827
We have to look at 30 to 100[br]different elements of that transaction

0:21:47.851,0:21:49.993
to make sure it's really you

0:21:50.017,0:21:52.699
before we let that money[br]out of your account.

0:21:52.723,0:21:57.755
And so there is a combination[br]of making sure you have enough data

0:21:57.779,0:21:59.898
to protect somebody

0:21:59.922,0:22:04.780
but also assure that your privacy[br]is held sacrosanct,

0:22:04.804,0:22:09.939
and I think that is a balancing act[br]and one that needs to happen

0:22:09.963,0:22:13.039
in order for us to do this successfully.

0:22:14.711,0:22:18.607
WPR: Great, and actually sort of going[br]from digital cash to digital currency,

0:22:18.631,0:22:22.738
we have another question[br]from Simone Ross in our community

0:22:22.762,0:22:26.393
about the opportunity that exists[br]for digital currency.

0:22:26.417,0:22:29.196
She mentioned that PayPal[br]pulled out of Libra.

0:22:29.220,0:22:34.574
What would it take for a truly inclusive[br]digital currency to take hold here?

0:22:35.398,0:22:36.686
DS: Yeah.

0:22:36.710,0:22:41.576
I think there is a tremendous[br]amount of promise

0:22:41.600,0:22:45.562
as we think about digital currencies.

0:22:45.586,0:22:47.925
Our pulling out of Libra

0:22:47.949,0:22:53.724
had nothing to do with our firm conviction

0:22:53.748,0:23:00.747
that blockchain and other forms[br]of maybe stable coin currencies

0:23:01.918,0:23:03.647
are extremely important

0:23:03.671,0:23:06.188
and can be very, very helpful,

0:23:06.212,0:23:08.258
especially in different[br]parts of the world.

0:23:08.282,0:23:12.880
As we think about stability[br]in different parts of the world

0:23:12.904,0:23:16.135
where currencies[br]can fluctuate up and down,

0:23:16.159,0:23:21.237
to have a more stable currency[br]where somebody can know,

0:23:21.261,0:23:22.856
if they have that,

0:23:22.880,0:23:24.656
that it's going to be worth x amount,

0:23:24.680,0:23:26.517
and that they can transact,

0:23:26.541,0:23:29.283
either with other individuals[br]around the world

0:23:29.307,0:23:33.332
or, importantly,[br]at merchants around the world.

0:23:33.912,0:23:40.846
And we are looking at all forms[br]of digital currencies right now,

0:23:41.393,0:23:44.327
working hand in hand[br]with a number of different governments,

0:23:44.351,0:23:50.156
and I think we should all think about[br]how technology is going to evolve

0:23:50.180,0:23:53.475
and how currencies will evolve[br]as a result of that.

0:23:53.499,0:24:00.491
And I think this crisis[br]has really opened the eyes

0:24:00.515,0:24:02.990
of many governments around the world

0:24:03.014,0:24:08.212
as to the need for different tool sets

0:24:08.236,0:24:09.749
to create stimulus

0:24:09.773,0:24:15.864
and to efficiently and quickly[br]and effectively distribute funds

0:24:15.888,0:24:17.682
to their citizens.

0:24:19.466,0:24:22.245
WPR: Great. Well, I'll be back shortly[br]with more questions,

0:24:22.269,0:24:25.477
and I'd just love to remind the community[br]that you can ask questions

0:24:25.501,0:24:26.952
on the "Ask question" feature.

0:24:26.976,0:24:29.556
Be sure to use the pull-down tab[br]to select Episode 2,

0:24:29.580,0:24:30.731
so those questions come.

0:24:30.755,0:24:31.906
Thank you.

0:24:31.930,0:24:33.303
DS: Thanks, Whitney.

0:24:33.327,0:24:35.422
CH: Thanks, Whitney.

0:24:35.446,0:24:38.889
Dan, I want to go back to something[br]we touched on in the beginning

0:24:38.913,0:24:41.498
about financial wellness.

0:24:41.994,0:24:44.070
PayPal has done something unique

0:24:44.094,0:24:49.632
in terms of calculating[br]how much to pay people

0:24:49.656,0:24:52.430
and how much you should spend on benefits.

0:24:52.454,0:24:54.666
Traditionally, wages[br]are set by the market,

0:24:54.690,0:24:58.572
but you've found that paying[br]as much or even more than other companies

0:24:58.596,0:24:59.785
wasn't always enough.

0:24:59.809,0:25:01.742
Can you tell us about that moment?

0:25:03.221,0:25:04.625
DS: Yeah.

0:25:05.420,0:25:11.088
So I said, kind of, in our opening,[br]in one of my opening statements,

0:25:11.112,0:25:16.567
that two-thirds of Americans[br]struggle to make ends meet

0:25:16.591,0:25:18.853
at the end of the month.

0:25:19.546,0:25:24.350
They are financially stressed,

0:25:24.374,0:25:27.552
and it kind of wreaks havoc in their life.

0:25:28.146,0:25:34.082
I did a study to look at PayPal employees.

0:25:34.106,0:25:36.680
We did a research study,

0:25:36.704,0:25:40.404
and I did it because I thought I was going[br]to get back this great information

0:25:40.428,0:25:43.943
that I was going to talk about[br]at an employee meeting

0:25:43.967,0:25:45.242
about how well we pay,

0:25:45.266,0:25:47.691
because we pay, to your point,

0:25:47.715,0:25:49.637
at or above market

0:25:49.661,0:25:52.423
in every single location around the world.

0:25:53.228,0:25:58.039
And what I found is, unfortunately,[br]like the rest of the world,

0:25:58.063,0:26:01.268
even though we paid at market[br]or above market,

0:26:01.292,0:26:06.221
60 percent of our operations personnel,

0:26:06.245,0:26:09.656
our entry-level employees,[br]our hourly workers,

0:26:09.680,0:26:10.853
face the same thing.

0:26:10.877,0:26:12.793
They struggle to make ends meet.

0:26:12.817,0:26:16.007
And that was simply unacceptable for me.

0:26:16.031,0:26:20.458
I think the world is changing

0:26:20.482,0:26:23.836
in terms of the responsibility[br]of corporations,

0:26:23.860,0:26:26.858
the responsibility of CEOs.

0:26:26.882,0:26:31.317
We have a lot of different stakeholders[br]that we try to satisfy,

0:26:31.341,0:26:36.223
from regulators to shareholders[br]to customers to employees.

0:26:36.247,0:26:40.401
But I think the number one[br]responsibility that we have

0:26:40.425,0:26:44.147
is the health -- financial health --[br]of our employees,

0:26:44.171,0:26:47.833
because nothing could be[br]more important to a company

0:26:47.857,0:26:53.077
than to have financially secure,[br]passionate employees working for you,

0:26:53.101,0:26:56.291
because nobody is going to serve customers

0:26:56.315,0:27:00.385
better than employees[br]who feel a part of something

0:27:00.409,0:27:04.855
and feel financially secure and glad[br]to be a part of that company.

0:27:04.879,0:27:09.331
And so then the real question becomes:[br]How do you measure that?

0:27:09.355,0:27:13.260
Because a lot of people think[br]about living wages or a minimum wage.

0:27:13.284,0:27:16.444
And we thought that was insufficient,

0:27:16.468,0:27:21.967
and we came up with a measurement[br]we called "net disposable income,"

0:27:21.991,0:27:23.158
which is, basically:

0:27:23.182,0:27:29.190
After you pay taxes and[br]your basically essential living expenses,

0:27:29.214,0:27:35.088
how much money do you have[br]left over for discretionary things

0:27:35.112,0:27:36.899
or to save?

0:27:36.923,0:27:40.197
And here's the really unfortunate thing --[br]and I'm not proud of this,

0:27:40.221,0:27:42.866
but remember, we were paying[br]at market or above,

0:27:42.890,0:27:47.237
so I thought the market would[br]take care of this, right, by doing that --

0:27:47.261,0:27:50.734
we found that for that population,

0:27:50.758,0:27:55.658
they had four to six percent[br]NDI, net disposable income,

0:27:55.682,0:27:59.343
after paying taxes[br]and essential living expenses.

0:27:59.367,0:28:00.531
That is not enough.

0:28:00.555,0:28:03.234
You are going to struggle[br]to make ends meet.

0:28:03.258,0:28:07.423
And by the way, NDI changes[br]location to location to location

0:28:07.447,0:28:08.949
around the globe, right?

0:28:08.973,0:28:14.377
There's a different NDI in Manila,[br]a different NDI in Omaha, Nebraska,

0:28:14.401,0:28:17.307
than there is in New York City, etc.

0:28:17.331,0:28:20.855
And so we basically[br]said to ourselves,

0:28:20.879,0:28:25.207
we need to take[br]NDI to 20 percent.

0:28:25.231,0:28:27.104
Because at 20 percent --

0:28:27.128,0:28:30.642
and that's a huge shift,[br]from four to six to 20 percent --

0:28:30.666,0:28:36.859
but at 20 percent,[br]you actually have the ability to save

0:28:36.883,0:28:41.715
and to put money away and to take care[br]of discretionary expenses.

0:28:41.739,0:28:47.355
And so we did a pretty[br]massive reorientation

0:28:47.379,0:28:49.580
of our compensation systems.

0:28:50.268,0:28:56.296
We lowered the cost[br]of benefits by 58 percent,

0:28:56.320,0:28:59.605
because benefits[br]are like a regressive tax,

0:28:59.629,0:29:02.683
you pay the same amount[br]no matter what your salary is.

0:29:02.707,0:29:07.382
And so we had a lot of employees[br]who weren't taking health care benefits,

0:29:07.406,0:29:09.768
because it cost too much[br]to be able to do that.

0:29:09.792,0:29:12.366
So we lowered it by 58 percent.

0:29:12.390,0:29:16.476
We made every single employee[br]of PayPal a shareholder

0:29:16.500,0:29:18.512
and an owner of the business,

0:29:18.536,0:29:20.842
and we gave them pretty big grants

0:29:20.866,0:29:26.123
so that they could be a part[br]of the success of PayPal going forward.

0:29:26.147,0:29:29.520
We raised salaries where we needed[br]to go and do that.

0:29:29.544,0:29:33.177
And then we wrapped all of that[br]into a financial education program,

0:29:33.201,0:29:36.383
because people had never[br]gotten equity before,

0:29:36.407,0:29:38.056
they were trying to think through,

0:29:38.080,0:29:42.404
"How do I save now that I've got[br]incremental dollars to go and do that?"

0:29:42.428,0:29:49.055
And that cost us quite a bit[br]of money to go and do that,

0:29:49.079,0:29:50.604
but I really feel,

0:29:50.628,0:29:53.958
just like how we spend a lot of money[br]to take care of customers,

0:29:53.982,0:29:57.598
as you mentioned up front, in COVID-19,

0:29:57.622,0:30:03.942
that companies need to stand[br]for more than just making money,

0:30:03.966,0:30:08.301
for more than just maximizing[br]our profits next quarter.

0:30:08.325,0:30:12.027
I firmly, firmly believe

0:30:12.051,0:30:16.013
that the costs associated[br]with taking care of our employees,

0:30:16.037,0:30:18.216
taking care of our customers,

0:30:18.240,0:30:20.953
will benefit us in the long run

0:30:20.977,0:30:24.113
multiplefold over the costs[br]associated with doing that.

0:30:24.137,0:30:29.347
And we're already beginning[br]to see some of the impact of that.

0:30:29.371,0:30:36.354
And so, I think every CEO, every company,

0:30:36.378,0:30:39.371
needs to really now start to think about,

0:30:39.395,0:30:42.436
especially maybe[br]as a result of this crisis,

0:30:42.460,0:30:45.378
but as I mentioned,[br]we had a crisis before this,

0:30:45.402,0:30:49.632
how do we put our employees first,[br]take care of them?

0:30:49.656,0:30:52.641
Because if you do that,[br]you'll take care of customers,

0:30:52.665,0:30:54.293
and if you take care of customers,

0:30:54.317,0:30:56.271
you'll take of shareholders, inevitably.

0:30:56.295,0:31:02.288
And so this has been a huge part of it

0:31:02.312,0:31:04.385
about for the last year or so.

0:31:06.457,0:31:07.747
CH: It's so interesting,

0:31:07.771,0:31:10.759
and it brings up[br]so many questions, I think,

0:31:10.783,0:31:13.468
for me and probably our community as well.

0:31:13.492,0:31:19.350
I mean, PayPal is a hugely[br]profitable tech business,

0:31:19.374,0:31:23.074
huge free cash flow and big margins.

0:31:23.098,0:31:26.374
Do you think this model is something[br]that every company can do,

0:31:26.398,0:31:33.379
whether it's a tech company,[br]a manufacture, a meatpacking business?

0:31:33.403,0:31:36.798
I mean, is this what everyone[br]should be focused on?

0:31:37.861,0:31:42.582
DS: Well, I think that --[br]and I don't want to moralize

0:31:42.606,0:31:46.526
or tell other companies[br]what they should do --

0:31:46.550,0:31:50.831
but to me, I think[br]everyone should understand

0:31:50.855,0:31:53.167
the financial health of their employees.

0:31:53.191,0:31:56.237
That's a baseline thing to go do.

0:31:56.261,0:31:58.691
What you do post-that

0:31:58.715,0:32:04.563
is up to maybe your[br]financial strength as a company

0:32:04.587,0:32:09.071
or where you put your order of priorities.

0:32:09.095,0:32:11.087
But what I've found is,

0:32:12.093,0:32:15.722
I thought the market could tell you that,

0:32:15.746,0:32:19.641
and this is why I say, in many ways --

0:32:19.665,0:32:21.845
you know, I'm a big believer[br]in capitalism.

0:32:21.869,0:32:25.747
I think it's, in many ways,

0:32:25.771,0:32:29.776
the best economic system[br]that I know of.

0:32:29.800,0:32:31.989
But, like everything, it needs an upgrade.

0:32:32.013,0:32:34.571
It needs tuning,

0:32:34.595,0:32:39.249
and at least for[br]these vulnerable populations,

0:32:39.273,0:32:42.018
just because you pay at market

0:32:42.042,0:32:46.455
doesn't mean that they have[br]financial health or financial wellness.

0:32:46.479,0:32:50.975
And I think everyone should know

0:32:50.999,0:32:55.275
whether or not their employees have[br]the wherewithal to be able to save

0:32:55.299,0:32:57.947
to withstand financial shocks,

0:32:57.971,0:33:02.417
and then really understand, like,[br]what can you do about it?

0:33:02.441,0:33:05.249
I think this NDI measure

0:33:05.273,0:33:07.125
is a really interesting one.

0:33:07.149,0:33:08.971
It takes some time to go do it,

0:33:08.995,0:33:11.700
because you have to be quite thorough

0:33:11.724,0:33:17.206
and you have to really understand[br]living expenses by location

0:33:17.230,0:33:20.445
and what tax jurisdictions there are.

0:33:20.469,0:33:24.652
But you need to create an NDI

0:33:24.676,0:33:26.826
that's to a certain level

0:33:26.850,0:33:29.210
where people aren't struggling[br]to make ends meet.

0:33:29.234,0:33:31.639
Because if people are struggling[br]to make ends meet,

0:33:31.663,0:33:33.448
they are not as productive at work.

0:33:33.472,0:33:36.521
They're worried about, like,[br]what am I going to do with my kids?

0:33:36.545,0:33:39.104
My kid just got sick.[br]I don't have health insurance.

0:33:39.128,0:33:42.362
I think there's a spiral that occurs.

0:33:42.386,0:33:44.953
You think you're actually saving money

0:33:44.977,0:33:46.502
by paying less,

0:33:46.526,0:33:48.574
but the reality is,

0:33:48.598,0:33:51.020
at least in my belief system,

0:33:51.044,0:33:53.489
you take care of your employees,

0:33:53.513,0:33:56.712
and other things naturally flow from that.

0:33:56.736,0:33:59.123
They are more productive.

0:33:59.147,0:34:03.115
They love being a part of that company.

0:34:03.139,0:34:05.301
They take care of customers better.

0:34:05.325,0:34:07.355
And all of those things

0:34:07.379,0:34:12.593
inevitably accrue[br]to the benefit of a company

0:34:12.617,0:34:16.070
in terms of how it's trying[br]to serve its ultimate end market.

0:34:16.094,0:34:18.465
But it starts with your employees.

0:34:19.896,0:34:25.114
CH: So obviously you believe[br]in this "capitalism needs an upgrade,"

0:34:25.138,0:34:29.108
and I think NDI is something[br]so many companies should adopt.

0:34:29.132,0:34:34.482
But do you think this happens[br]through benevolent corporate activity?

0:34:34.506,0:34:37.180
I'm channeling my inner Bernie Bro here,

0:34:37.204,0:34:39.367
but I think a lot of people[br]would be skeptical

0:34:39.391,0:34:43.091
that we should trust companies[br]to do better at this point.

0:34:43.115,0:34:47.242
Should the government step in[br]to raise minimum wages,

0:34:47.266,0:34:50.501
do other things to protect workers[br]in a more structured way?

0:34:52.001,0:34:56.394
DS: Look, I think the government[br]clearly has a role to play,

0:34:56.418,0:35:01.412
and I think the private and public sectors

0:35:01.436,0:35:04.413
need to work closer together

0:35:04.437,0:35:08.865
to address so many of the issues

0:35:08.889,0:35:13.902
that we face in our societies[br]across the world,

0:35:13.926,0:35:17.234
whether that be income inequality,

0:35:17.258,0:35:20.498
environmental issues,

0:35:20.522,0:35:22.182
health,

0:35:22.206,0:35:23.993
protections, that kind of thing,

0:35:24.017,0:35:25.852
privacy.

0:35:26.504,0:35:31.976
But the way that I think about this is,

0:35:32.000,0:35:35.080
it's very difficult for governments[br]to regulate around this,

0:35:35.104,0:35:38.765
because there are so many[br]different ways of thinking about it.

0:35:39.775,0:35:43.212
If I were another CEO,

0:35:43.236,0:35:44.634
and this is like,

0:35:44.658,0:35:48.342
it's actually in your best interest

0:35:48.366,0:35:50.241
to go and do this

0:35:50.265,0:35:53.099
because it's a competitive advantage.

0:35:53.123,0:35:56.744
Like, we attract, I think,

0:35:56.768,0:36:00.507
some of the best talent in the world

0:36:00.531,0:36:02.410
to PayPal,

0:36:02.434,0:36:05.329
because we have a mission[br]that people believe in,

0:36:05.353,0:36:08.701
that we actually are trying to make[br]some sort of positive difference.

0:36:08.725,0:36:11.637
I'm not saying we're[br]the be-all and end-all,

0:36:11.661,0:36:14.796
but I don't think people[br]should shirk their responsibilities

0:36:14.820,0:36:17.676
of at least making a small difference

0:36:17.700,0:36:19.145
going forward.

0:36:19.169,0:36:22.244
If enough companies did that,[br]if enough governments did that,

0:36:22.268,0:36:24.391
it would make a real difference

0:36:24.415,0:36:25.849
in the world.

0:36:25.873,0:36:27.439
And then the second thing is,

0:36:27.463,0:36:29.852
you have to have values that support that.

0:36:29.876,0:36:31.978
And those values are incredibly important.

0:36:32.002,0:36:34.900
Those values should be[br]all about inclusion.

0:36:34.924,0:36:38.371
They should be about[br]having a diverse workforce.

0:36:38.395,0:36:41.650
They should be about financial wellness.

0:36:41.674,0:36:43.606
And when you do that,

0:36:43.630,0:36:46.256
and you attract the very best talent,

0:36:46.280,0:36:48.526
then by definition,

0:36:48.550,0:36:54.043
I think the single biggest[br]competitive advantage for any company

0:36:54.067,0:36:55.912
is their workforce.

0:36:55.936,0:36:59.083
Strategies are great.

0:36:59.107,0:37:00.845
A whole number of things are great.

0:37:00.869,0:37:02.936
You have a great workforce

0:37:02.960,0:37:04.988
that's passionate about what they're doing

0:37:05.012,0:37:06.610
and is financially secure,

0:37:06.634,0:37:09.034
and they will do amazing things.

0:37:09.058,0:37:12.439
And I think it's that kind[br]of competitive advantage

0:37:12.463,0:37:14.388
that will spur companies.

0:37:14.412,0:37:16.590
So there needs to be

0:37:18.060,0:37:23.145
a set of CEOs and companies

0:37:23.169,0:37:25.096
that start to move in this direction,

0:37:25.120,0:37:29.885
and I believe you're beginning[br]to see more do this.

0:37:29.909,0:37:31.415
And once that happens,

0:37:31.439,0:37:33.320
it starts to tip everything,

0:37:33.344,0:37:36.753
and I think more and more need to do it

0:37:36.777,0:37:39.942
to maintain their competitive positioning.

0:37:39.966,0:37:44.428
And that may seem like a self-serving way[br]why people are doing it,

0:37:44.452,0:37:45.936
but honestly,

0:37:45.960,0:37:49.460
I don't care whether they're doing[br]it out of the goodness of their heart

0:37:49.484,0:37:52.926
or they're doing it[br]because it's competitively a disadvantage

0:37:52.950,0:37:54.315
if they don't.

0:37:54.339,0:37:59.061
Creating financial health[br]for our employees is the goal,

0:37:59.085,0:38:00.720
and we've got to get that done.

0:38:02.839,0:38:08.066
CH: Yeah. I mean, it sounds like[br]you think of this as a win-win,

0:38:08.090,0:38:13.690
but it also sounds like you're willing[br]to maybe think about your employees first

0:38:13.714,0:38:16.983
and sell it to your shareholders later.

0:38:17.007,0:38:20.270
Whitney is -- oh sorry, go ahead.

0:38:20.294,0:38:22.334
DS: No, no, no -- I was just going to say,

0:38:22.358,0:38:24.207
I actually do believe that,

0:38:24.231,0:38:31.217
and I think the idea[br]of a multistakeholder capitalism,

0:38:31.241,0:38:33.752
that is a time for today,

0:38:33.776,0:38:39.529
and we cannot just think

0:38:39.553,0:38:42.926
that we have one stakeholder[br]that we need to satisfy.

0:38:42.950,0:38:48.646
We live in our communities,[br]we live in this world.

0:38:48.670,0:38:51.907
To have people struggling[br]day in and day out

0:38:51.931,0:38:56.272
is not good for any company, and ...

0:38:56.296,0:38:58.069
We can only do x amount,

0:38:58.093,0:39:02.833
but we can actually create[br]financial health for our employees,

0:39:02.857,0:39:04.063
and we should.

0:39:05.987,0:39:09.323
WPR: Great. So we have so many questions[br]coming in from the community.

0:39:09.347,0:39:11.691
One here is from Lara Pearson,

0:39:11.715,0:39:15.167
basically about whether PayPal[br]would consider become a B Corporation.

0:39:15.191,0:39:17.243
"Are you familiar with[br]the B Corp movement,

0:39:17.267,0:39:20.861
environmentally and socially responsible,[br]multiple-bottom-line for profits?

0:39:20.885,0:39:23.571
Presuming so, has PayPal considered[br]or would it consider

0:39:23.595,0:39:25.467
becoming a certified B Corporation?"

0:39:26.073,0:39:29.433
DS: Yep. I'm familiar with B Corp.

0:39:29.457,0:39:32.491
We have no intention to move

0:39:32.515,0:39:35.695
to becoming a B Corporation.

0:39:35.719,0:39:41.464
I think the values[br]and what we are trying to do

0:39:41.488,0:39:46.812
are very aligned with assuring[br]a multistakeholder point of view,

0:39:46.836,0:39:49.534
but what I really want

0:39:49.558,0:39:51.344
is for this to be a movement

0:39:51.368,0:39:58.282
across major corporations[br]across the world.

0:39:58.306,0:40:01.421
And you're not going to have[br]major corporations around the world

0:40:01.445,0:40:03.258
moving into B Corp.

0:40:03.282,0:40:09.824
There's a lot of other[br]side issues involved

0:40:09.848,0:40:11.561
with being a B Corporation

0:40:11.585,0:40:16.088
as opposed to just[br]a publicly listed company,

0:40:16.112,0:40:21.074
and so that's going to be[br]a long way before that happens.

0:40:21.098,0:40:24.455
And so what I'm[br]really trying to do is

0:40:24.479,0:40:29.842
encourage and demonstrate

0:40:29.866,0:40:32.547
that being multistakeholder,

0:40:32.571,0:40:34.650
that putting employees first,

0:40:34.674,0:40:37.165
creates competitive advantage.

0:40:37.189,0:40:44.108
And I think I'm not the only CEO[br]who's feeling that, by the way.

0:40:44.132,0:40:47.688
I think people like Satya Nadella[br]from Microsoft are doing a great job,

0:40:47.712,0:40:52.741
Marc Benioff from Salesforce.

0:40:52.765,0:40:56.115
I could go through quite a list of names.

0:40:56.139,0:40:58.752
But the list is not long enough yet,

0:40:58.776,0:41:04.190
but I think there's some[br]quite important names

0:41:04.214,0:41:05.781
and individuals around the world

0:41:05.805,0:41:12.418
who are now talking about[br]multistakeholder capitalism,

0:41:12.442,0:41:16.914
and I think that's an important element[br]as we think about our economies

0:41:16.938,0:41:20.742
and way of life looking forward.

0:41:22.780,0:41:27.208
WPR: And there was so much interest also[br]in your net disposable income program

0:41:27.232,0:41:28.964
and a lot of questions around that,

0:41:28.988,0:41:32.562
and one which I think is[br]along these same lines from Juan Enriquez

0:41:32.586,0:41:35.968
asking about a rational way[br]to address extreme income disparities.

0:41:35.992,0:41:38.885
And perhaps you could expand[br]beyond this program,

0:41:38.909,0:41:41.552
just sort of ways[br]that we might think about this

0:41:41.576,0:41:44.223
in a smarter way moving forward.

0:41:45.386,0:41:48.374
DS: Yeah.

0:41:50.052,0:41:56.876
Well, there's no easy solution,[br]or it would have been done.

0:41:56.900,0:42:00.098
So I think there are a couple things[br]that I think about

0:42:00.122,0:42:04.124
that may not fully address[br]extreme income disparities.

0:42:04.148,0:42:11.011
Again, I try to think pragmatically[br]about these things,

0:42:11.035,0:42:14.890
and, like, what can we really do[br]to start to address this?

0:42:14.914,0:42:16.602
And again, I think about,

0:42:16.626,0:42:19.648
if we could take one step[br]and then another step,

0:42:19.672,0:42:22.757
then you're starting your journey,

0:42:22.781,0:42:29.177
and without getting overwhelmed[br]by how far away the end state is.

0:42:29.201,0:42:32.990
So one, I think companies[br]need to take care of their employees,

0:42:33.014,0:42:35.755
and I think that will[br]immediately help to address

0:42:35.779,0:42:38.139
some of these income disparities.

0:42:38.163,0:42:42.763
Number two, I do think that,

0:42:42.787,0:42:49.771
ironically, if you have less money,

0:42:49.795,0:42:53.763
it costs you more to manage and move it,

0:42:53.787,0:42:57.249
which, think about that:

0:42:57.273,0:43:00.358
the less money you have,[br]if you're outside the financial system,

0:43:00.382,0:43:04.164
the more you spend to manage[br]and move your money.

0:43:04.188,0:43:10.323
And I think that technology

0:43:10.347,0:43:14.009
is at least a foundational way[br]for us to think about

0:43:14.033,0:43:19.927
how do we cut the basic costs[br]of managing and moving money

0:43:19.951,0:43:21.696
by 50 to 70 percent,

0:43:21.720,0:43:23.743
like [check-cashing],

0:43:23.767,0:43:25.459
sending remittances,

0:43:25.483,0:43:31.260
which are such a huge,[br]important part of the world's economy.

0:43:31.284,0:43:33.908
You know, you do it a traditional way,

0:43:33.932,0:43:36.439
you go into a store

0:43:36.463,0:43:40.034
and send the remittance to another store[br]and somebody goes and picks it up.

0:43:40.058,0:43:42.375
First of all, incredibly time-consuming,

0:43:42.399,0:43:45.450
and it can cost between[br]eight and 12 percent

0:43:45.474,0:43:48.224
of that remittance amount[br]that you're sending.

0:43:48.248,0:43:50.334
So if you're sending a hundred dollars,

0:43:50.358,0:43:53.601
the recipient who so desperately needs it

0:43:53.625,0:43:56.344
is getting 88 to 90 dollars.

0:43:56.368,0:44:00.714
If you do that electronically,[br]digital wallet to digital wallet,

0:44:00.738,0:44:02.636
that can be like three percent,

0:44:02.660,0:44:05.234
so you can get 97 dollars from that.

0:44:05.258,0:44:11.742
And so I think there are ways[br]of addressing the costs.

0:44:11.766,0:44:13.026
As I mentioned,

0:44:13.050,0:44:18.074
there is so much money[br]spent on unnecessary fees

0:44:18.098,0:44:19.654
and high interest rates,

0:44:19.678,0:44:22.941
and if we can drop that[br]by 20 percent, 30 percent,

0:44:22.965,0:44:27.875
the amount of money we can return[br]to vulnerable populations is quite large

0:44:27.899,0:44:30.052
and will start to make a difference.

0:44:31.414,0:44:32.574
WPR: That's great.

0:44:32.598,0:44:34.699
We have a ton of questions[br]from the audience,

0:44:34.723,0:44:37.293
just one more before we turn things[br]back over to Corey

0:44:37.317,0:44:38.622
with her final questions.

0:44:38.646,0:44:40.085
This one is from Anna Tunkel,

0:44:40.109,0:44:44.297
which is just, I think, as we are rounding[br]to the end of the interview here,

0:44:44.321,0:44:46.887
"What are you most optimistic about,

0:44:46.911,0:44:49.929
and what do you see[br]as the biggest opportunities

0:44:49.953,0:44:52.242
for 'Building Back Better' after COVID?"

0:44:54.282,0:44:55.442
DS: Well, I mean,

0:44:55.466,0:45:00.221
one thing I'm actually optimistic about --

0:45:00.245,0:45:05.880
and I've always been a believer[br]in the human spirit

0:45:05.904,0:45:12.011
and the power of an individual[br]to make a difference.

0:45:12.965,0:45:17.348
I know that sounds very cliché,[br]but I truly believe it,

0:45:17.372,0:45:19.734
and I think every one of us[br]can make a difference.

0:45:19.758,0:45:21.116
But here's what I'm seeing.

0:45:21.140,0:45:25.232
I'm beginning to see that[br]at a much larger scale

0:45:25.256,0:45:26.836
than I've ever seen before.

0:45:26.860,0:45:28.677
You know, we have different platforms,

0:45:28.701,0:45:31.037
either the PayPal platform[br]or the Venmo platform,

0:45:31.061,0:45:34.769
Venmo here in the US,[br]PayPal across the world.

0:45:34.793,0:45:40.054
The amount of giving that's happening[br]through those platforms,

0:45:40.078,0:45:42.532
whether it be to local businesses,

0:45:42.556,0:45:45.934
to artists, to musicians,

0:45:45.958,0:45:47.807
to bartenders,

0:45:47.831,0:45:51.417
to places of worship, to schools,

0:45:51.441,0:45:54.405
to NGOs, to charities

0:45:54.429,0:45:57.864
has exploded on the platform, exploded.

0:45:57.888,0:46:02.745
We have helped to raise[br]on the PayPal platform

0:46:02.769,0:46:05.244
since COVID-19 struck

0:46:05.268,0:46:10.542
2.8 billion dollars[br]for NGOs and charities --

0:46:10.566,0:46:11.966
2.8 billion.

0:46:11.990,0:46:14.137
That's incredible,

0:46:14.161,0:46:17.515
the amount of generosity[br]that is pouring out

0:46:17.539,0:46:20.129
from the global community around this.

0:46:20.153,0:46:26.502
And we're just seeing people[br]randomly pay it forward.

0:46:26.526,0:46:30.651
Somebody gives 20 dollars to a bartender,

0:46:30.675,0:46:32.963
and that bartender takes[br]10 dollars of that

0:46:32.987,0:46:34.619
and gives it to somebody else.

0:46:34.643,0:46:38.687
And we're watching that over our platform,

0:46:38.711,0:46:42.050
and that gives me a sense of optimism.

0:46:42.074,0:46:47.082
I also feel like this period of time

0:46:47.106,0:46:51.481
has exposed a number of things[br]that were happening

0:46:51.505,0:46:53.223
but were invisible,

0:46:53.247,0:46:56.688
and I think when things become visible,

0:46:56.712,0:46:59.239
that's when you can start to address them,

0:46:59.263,0:47:01.781
and I think there's a lot of attention

0:47:01.805,0:47:06.801
on some issues that[br]should have had attention before,

0:47:06.825,0:47:11.199
but vulnerable populations[br]don't have as loud a voice as others,

0:47:11.223,0:47:16.914
and now that voice is being heard,[br]because you can't ignore it.

0:47:16.938,0:47:21.889
And hopefully, that will create progress

0:47:21.913,0:47:25.114
against some of these[br]structural inequalities

0:47:25.138,0:47:28.142
that have been there for a long time.

0:47:30.768,0:47:32.571
WPR: That's wonderful.

0:47:32.595,0:47:35.212
And there's so much interest online.

0:47:35.236,0:47:39.599
You have some other questions[br]to ask as well.

0:47:39.623,0:47:42.475
CH: So I think we have one more[br]from our community

0:47:42.499,0:47:44.974
from Jacqueline Ashby.

0:47:44.998,0:47:47.429
Anna sort of stole my last question,

0:47:47.453,0:47:51.663
which was to restore[br]our faith in humanity.

0:47:51.687,0:47:54.181
But, there's so much interest[br]coming in about NDI.

0:47:54.205,0:47:56.572
Is there a way for people to learn more,

0:47:56.596,0:47:59.803
for you to share your study[br]and your methodology?

0:48:00.636,0:48:02.121
DS: Happy to do so.

0:48:02.145,0:48:04.663
There is nothing proprietary about it.

0:48:04.687,0:48:08.866
We would love for this to be --

0:48:08.890,0:48:13.218
look, and this may not be[br]the be-all and end-all measurement.

0:48:13.242,0:48:15.931
It's the best one we could come up with,

0:48:15.955,0:48:18.617
but if working within the community,

0:48:18.641,0:48:23.770
we can evolve it and think about[br]maybe things that it missed

0:48:23.794,0:48:27.623
or maybe things that could be done better,

0:48:27.647,0:48:28.826
that would be fantastic.

0:48:28.850,0:48:31.829
I don't know the best way of doing that.

0:48:31.853,0:48:36.610
I'll leave that to Corey and Whitney[br]to help me think that through,

0:48:36.634,0:48:38.912
but of course we'd be willing to share it.

0:48:38.936,0:48:42.915
There is nothing about that[br]that I don't want to share.

0:48:43.570,0:48:45.725
CH: Sounds like a good TED Talk.

0:48:48.682,0:48:53.090
Thank you so much, Dan. This has been[br]a super-interesting conversation.

0:48:53.114,0:48:56.045
I think we could talk for another hour,

0:48:56.069,0:48:58.474
but thank you so much for being here.

0:48:59.444,0:49:02.415
DS: Thank you, Corey. Thank you, Whitney.[br]Thank you, everybody.

0:49:02.439,0:49:04.046
WPR: Thank you, Dan. Thank you.