0:00:10.770,0:00:12.370
A couple of summers ago,

0:00:12.370,0:00:15.850
I was doing this painting called "Heaven."

0:00:15.850,0:00:17.740
It was a freely-painted,

0:00:17.740,0:00:20.600
gestural, non-objective painting.

0:00:20.610,0:00:26.000
I'm thinking it's my post-modern version[br]of abstract expressionism.

0:00:26.000,0:00:30.180
And I'm reading the biography of de Kooning,

0:00:30.180,0:00:33.960
about how poor de Kooning sat in a chair[br]for years,

0:00:33.960,0:00:36.470
trying to make a painting come out right.

0:00:36.470,0:00:39.620
And I'm painting on my fake abstract expressionist,

0:00:39.620,0:00:41.410
doing exactly the same thing:

0:00:41.410,0:00:42.750
Looking at it.

0:00:42.750,0:00:45.480
Going, poking around at it a little bit.

0:00:45.480,0:00:47.440
Sitting down.

0:00:47.440,0:00:48.680
And I'm reading the book and I'm thinking,

0:00:48.680,0:00:50.750
"Get a life, de Kooning!"

0:00:50.750,0:00:51.750
And then I'm thinking,

0:00:51.750,0:00:54.600
"Oh my gosh, this is hard to do!"

0:00:54.600,0:00:56.580
And I stopped at that point.

0:00:56.580,0:00:57.440
[LAUGHS]

0:00:58.560,0:01:00.700
When I started painting,

0:01:00.700,0:01:03.430
my painting was coming out of sculpture,

0:01:03.430,0:01:07.640
and I was using acrylic paint almost as a[br]sculptural material.

0:01:08.780,0:01:10.940
I would paint straight up and down

0:01:10.940,0:01:14.020
and then straight sideways,

0:01:15.480,0:01:17.880
covering up the brushstrokes.

0:01:17.880,0:01:19.260
Not sanding them out,

0:01:19.260,0:01:23.320
but just trying to make it[br]not expressionistic at all.

0:01:23.320,0:01:24.880
Then at a certain point

0:01:24.880,0:01:28.740
I put on my masking tape and[br]paint all over the place,

0:01:28.740,0:01:32.720
so that you'd have this hard-edge thing[br]and this gestural thing

0:01:32.720,0:01:34.760
going on at the same time.

0:01:34.760,0:01:36.860
That was a major breakthrough.

0:01:40.140,0:01:41.260
You get both.

0:01:41.270,0:01:42.270
You'd get it both ways.

0:01:42.270,0:01:45.120
You get Albers and de Kooning[br]in the same painting.