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Well, we could ask ourselves what the purpose of an educational system is

and of course there are sharp differences on this matter.

Now, there's the traditional, an interpretation that comes from teh enlightenment

that holds that the highest goal in life is to inquire

and create, to search the riches of the past,

and try to internalize the parts of them that are significant to you

and carry that quest for understanding further in your own way.

The purporse of education from taht point of view is just to help people to get their own help, to learn

on their own.

It's you, the learner, who is going to achieve in the course of education.

It's really up to you what you'll master, where you'll go,

how you'll use it, how you'll go on to produce something new and exciting for yourself, maybe for others.

That's one concept of education.

Now the other concept is essentially indoctrination.

People have the idea that from childhood

young people have to be placed into a framework in which they'll follow orders,

accept existing frameworks, and not challenge.

And this is often quite explicit.

For example, after the activism of hte 1960s, there was great concern

across much of the educated spectrum

that young people were just getting too free and independent,

that the country was becoming too democratic and so on.

There was an important study on what's called the crisis of democracy, too much democracy,

claiming that there are certain insitutions responsible for the indoctrination of the young--

that's their phrase-- and they're not doing their job properly.

That schools, universities, churches---we have to change them

so that they carry out the job of indocrintation and control more effectively.

That's actually coming from the liberal internationalists

end of hte spectrum of educated opinion.

In fact, since that time there have been many measures taken

to try to turn the educational system towards more control, more indoctrination,

more vocational training.

Imposing a debt which traps students, young people, into a life of conformity.

That's the exact opposite of what I referred to that traditionally comes out of the enlightenment.

There's a constrant struggle between those.

In the colleges and the schools, do you train for passing tests?

Or do you train for creative inquiriy?

Pursiung interests that are aroused by materil that's presented, you want to pursue either on your own

or in cooperation with others.

And this goes all the way through up to graduate school and researh.

Just two different ways of looking at the world.

When you get to a research institution like the one we're now in,

at the graduate level, it essentially follows the enlightment tradition.

In fact, science couldn't progress unless it was based on inculcation of the urge to challenege, to question

doctrine, question authority, search for alternatives, use your imagination freely of your own impulses.

Cooperative work with others is constant as you can see just by walking down the halls.

That's my view of what an educational system should be like down to kindergarten.

But there certainly are powerful structures in society

which would prefer people to be indoctrinated, to conform, to not ask too many questions, to be obedient,

to fulfill the roles that are assigned to you and not shake systems of power and authority

Those are choices we have to make, wherever we stand in the educational system.

As students, as teachers, as people on the outside trying to help shape it in the direction that we think it ought to go.

Well there certainly has been a very substantial growth in new technology--

technology of information, communication, access interchange.

It's surely a major change in the nature of hte culture and society.

We should bear in mind that the technological changes that are taking place now,

while they're significant probably come nowhere near having as much impact

as technological advances of a century ago.

Let's take communicaiton.

The shift from a typewriter to a computer or a telephone to email is significant.

But it doesn't begin to compare with a shift from a sailing vessel to a telegraph.

Tge time that that cut down in communication between England and the United States

was extraordinary as compared with the changes taking place now.

The same is true of other kinds of technology.

The introduction of widespread plumbing in the cities had a huge effect on health,

much more than the discovery of antibiotics.

So the changes are real and significant,

but we should recognize that others have taken place that were much more dramatic.

As far as the technology itself and education is concerned,

technology is basically neutral.

It's kind of like a hammer.

The hammer doesn't care whether you use it to build a house

or whether a torturer uses it to crush somebody's skull.

A hammer can do either.

Same with modern technology, say, the internet, and so on.

The internet is extremely valuable if you iknow what you're looking for.

I use it all the time for research, I'm sure everyone does.

If you know what you're looking for, you have a kind of framework of understanding

which directs you through particular things

then this can be a very valuable tool.

Of course, you always have to be willing to ask

"Is my framework the right one?"

Maybe I have to modify it."

Maybe if there's something I look at that questions it, I should rethink how I'm looking at things."

But you can't pursue any kind of inquiry without a relatively clear framework

that's directing your search and helping you choose what's significant and what isn't.

What can be put aside, what can be pursued,

what ought to be challenged, what ought to be developed.

You can't expect somebody to become a biologist

by giving them access to the Harvard University biology library

and say, "Just look through it."

That'll give them nothing.

The internet is the same except magnified enormously.

If you don't undertsand or know what you're looking for,

if you don't have some kind of conception of what matters--

always with the proviso that you're willing to question--

if you don't have that, exploring the internet

is just picking out random factoids that don't mean anything.

Behind any significant use of contemporary technology--

the internet, communicaitons systems, graphics, whatever it may be--

unless behind it is a well constructed, directive, conceptual apparatus,

it is very unlikely to be helpful.

It may turn out to be harmful.

For example, random exploration through the internet

turns out to be a cult generator.

You pick up a factoid here, a factoid there

and someboyd else refers to it,

and all of sudden you have some sort of crazed picture

which has some factual basis but nothing to do with the world.

You have to know how to evaluate, interpret, and understand.

Say biology again.

The person who wins the Nobel prize in biology

is not the person who read the most journal articles and took the most notes on them.

It's the person who knew what to look for.

And cultivating that capacity to seek what's significant--

always willing to question whether you're on the right track--

that's what education is going to be about.

Whether it's using computers and the internet or pencil and paper and books.

Well, education is discussed in terms of whether it's a worthwhile investment

Does it create human capital?

It can be used for economic growth and so on.

And it's a very distorting way to even pose the question, I think.

Do we want to have a society of free, creative, independent individuals,

able to appreciate and to gain from the cutlural achievements of the past, and to add to them?

Do we want that?

Or do we want people who can increase GDP?

It's not necessarily the same thing.

An education of the kind that ---- John Dewey and others talked about,

That's a value in itself.

Whatever impact it has in the society, it's a value

because it helps create better human beings.

After all, that's what an educational system should be for.

On the other hand, if you want to look at it

in terms of costs and benetifs,

take the new technology that we were just talking about, where did that come from?

Well, actually a lot of it was developed right where we're sitting,

Down below where we now are was a major laboratory back in the 1950s,

where i was employed in fact,.

Which had lots of scientists, engineers, people of all kinds of interests--

philosophers, others.

Who were working on developing the basic character and even the basic tools

of the technology that has now come.

Computers and the internet for example,

were pretty much in the public sector for decades,

funded in places like this, where people were exploring new possibilities

that were mostly unthought of, unheard of at the time.

Some of them worked, some didn't.

The ones that worked were finally converted into tools that people could use.

Now that's the way scientific prgress takes place.

It's the way that cultural prgress takes place generally.

Classical artists, for example,

came out of a tradition of craftsmanship that was developed

over long periods with master artisans, with others.

Sometimes you can rise on their shoulders and create new, marvelous things.

But it doesn't come from nowhere.

If there isn't a lively cultural and educational system

which is geared towards encouraging creative exploration,

independence of thought, williingness to challenge accepted beliefs.

If youdon't have that you won't get teh technology that will lead to economic gains.

Though that I don't think is the prime purpose of cultural enrichment in education.

There is in the recent period particularly an increasing shaping of educaiton

from the early ages towards passing examinations.

Taking tests can be of some use, both for the person who is taking the test