0:00:09.843,0:00:11.011 RONI HORN:[br]For me, there's this 0:00:11.011,0:00:14.714 very hard balance between oneself 0:00:14.714,0:00:17.717 and one's work and the audience. 0:00:18.985,0:00:22.055 Some people live in a virtual[br]in-their-headspace. 0:00:22.055,0:00:23.790 I don't. 0:00:23.790,0:00:26.793 I like to keep my feet[br]in the moving water. 0:00:30.630,0:00:32.065 My ambitions lie 0:00:32.065,0:00:35.602 very much in dialog with my surroundings. 0:00:36.736,0:00:40.573 I don't know that there's any one thing[br]that attracts me to water, you know? 0:00:40.573,0:00:42.542 And of course,[br]if you start to think about water, 0:00:42.542,0:00:45.545 it just explodes because it's[br]so rich and...and, 0:00:46.079,0:00:49.082 it's kind of everything and, nothing. 0:00:49.916,0:00:52.385 I almost feel like I rediscover water 0:00:52.385,0:00:55.388 again and again and again. 0:00:57.824,0:01:00.627 So it isn't me going out after water. 0:01:00.627,0:01:03.129 I think water's come in after me. 0:01:03.129,0:01:04.431 It's really much more, 0:01:04.431,0:01:08.201 much more the the the prey[br]and not the predator in that relationship. 0:01:09.436,0:01:11.337 The Thames has, 0:01:11.337,0:01:15.175 the interesting fact attached to it[br]that it is the urban river 0:01:15.175,0:01:19.312 with the highest appeal[br]to foreign suiciders. 0:01:19.879,0:01:22.682 One of the points about shooting[br]the Thames 0:01:22.682,0:01:25.785 was, was the fact that its darkness[br]was quite real, 0:01:26.052,0:01:29.355 that people were in fact,[br]it wasn't just a a visual darkness, 0:01:29.355,0:01:33.626 it was a psychological darkness,[br]and it was an actual darkness. 0:01:33.626,0:01:36.629 And people are drawn to it... 0:01:37.297,0:01:40.300 for that exit option. 0:01:43.903,0:01:46.806 Even in its darkness,[br]it has this picturesque element. 0:01:46.806,0:01:48.608 It's something about the human condition. 0:01:48.608,0:01:51.845 It's not the water itself, it's humanity’s 0:01:51.945,0:01:54.614 relationship to water, 0:01:54.614,0:01:57.450 because that's almost a human need, 0:01:57.450,0:02:00.453 that water be a positive force. 0:02:01.621,0:02:03.456 Every photograph is wildly different, 0:02:03.456,0:02:06.693 uh, even though you can be photographing[br]the same thing. You know, from one minute 0:02:06.693,0:02:11.631 to the next, it's, uh...almost[br]got the complexity of a of a portrait. 0:02:14.400,0:02:15.301 So, here we are. 0:02:15.301,0:02:21.174 We're in essentially the second largest[br]town in Iceland, which is 15,000 people. 0:02:21.508,0:02:26.479 and it's called Akureyri. And it has the[br]largest university outside of Reykjavík. 0:02:27.313,0:02:31.251 The weather's often quite poor in this area,[br]so you can stay inside. 0:02:31.251,0:02:32.819 You can move about once you're in there, 0:02:32.819,0:02:37.157 it's like a little interior[br]kind of, uh, metropolis. 0:02:37.891,0:02:40.360 And the piece is, 0:02:40.360,0:02:43.363 very large, about 80 photographs. 0:02:43.530,0:02:47.400 The idea is to lay it out in a way[br]that is a flow through the building. 0:02:48.201,0:02:51.337 But depending on who you are[br]and how you use the building, it's 0:02:51.337,0:02:55.975 a discovery process that could occur over[br]days, months, or even years. 0:02:57.677,0:02:59.145 I like very much the idea 0:02:59.145,0:03:02.148 that the scale of the work is unknown... 0:03:02.649,0:03:05.251 but pervasive... 0:03:05.251,0:03:09.556 not dominating it,[br]but setting kind of a tone for the space. 0:03:10.256,0:03:12.525 [ man lecturing in Icelandic ] 0:03:13.359,0:03:15.228 You're bringing the nature 0:03:15.228,0:03:18.331 inside the university walls. 0:03:18.831,0:03:21.834 And it makes you calm. 0:03:21.868,0:03:26.439 You see the students flow down the halls[br]and with the water. 0:03:26.472,0:03:29.442 So for me,[br]it's really changed the atmosphere. 0:03:29.676,0:03:33.213 It's like a very fine[br]combination of people 0:03:33.213,0:03:36.182 flowing around[br]and the water flowing around. 0:03:36.449,0:03:39.586 I think it's really great[br]to have the water inside the building. 0:03:42.722,0:03:43.056 HORN: Of course, 0:03:43.056,0:03:46.059 I always thought of Iceland[br]as a kind of studio for me, 0:03:46.326,0:03:49.329 or a quarry. 0:03:49.729,0:03:50.563 Maybe a quarry 0:03:50.563,0:03:55.001 is a good metaphor, because I always feel[br]like I'm involved in a process of, 0:03:55.201,0:03:58.171 if not hunting,[br]at least mining of some sort. 0:03:59.105,0:04:01.374 For Iceland, it's[br]not so much about memory, 0:04:01.374,0:04:04.377 it's...it's more about that place 0:04:04.777,0:04:07.780 and my need to be there. 0:04:08.982,0:04:12.785 I had traveled in this area a[br]number of times and I knew the lighthouse, 0:04:13.886,0:04:15.288 so I asked 0:04:15.288,0:04:18.291 the municipality if I could live in it. 0:04:19.225,0:04:22.895 They eventually said it was okay,[br]and, uh, I went up there 0:04:22.895,0:04:25.898 and sat around and looked at the weather[br]for a couple months-- 0:04:26.833,0:04:29.836 a little bit of reading[br]a little bit of drawing. 0:04:33.273,0:04:35.108 It was a psychological clearing, 0:04:35.108,0:04:38.911 and then it was also a way to connect[br]with this island. 0:04:41.281,0:04:42.615 There was no ambition. 0:04:42.615,0:04:43.716 It was just to be there. 0:04:43.716,0:04:46.019 It's just real simple. 0:04:46.019,0:04:50.490 That was the whole agenda[br]for the couple months, was just be there, 0:04:50.790,0:04:53.793 and it couldn't have been, in a way,[br]more simple and more difficult. 0:04:56.863,0:04:58.531 “You are the Weather”-- 0:04:58.531,0:05:02.368 the viewer walks in and you're surrounded [br]by up to a hundred images, 0:05:02.368,0:05:07.273 which are one portrait of[br]a person who is a multitude. 0:05:09.709,0:05:14.013 WOMAN: The original idea was to do this[br]book on me, 0:05:14.280,0:05:17.650 which was not to be on me as a person, 0:05:17.650,0:05:20.653 but using my face as a place. 0:05:20.687,0:05:22.322 So the situation was just me 0:05:22.322,0:05:25.758 going into the water,[br]and then she started photographing. 0:05:26.192,0:05:29.762 And she didn't give me any directions[br]except for looking 0:05:29.762,0:05:32.765 into the lens of the camera. 0:05:34.100,0:05:38.438 HORN: It was very much of a wordless interaction[br]for the two months we spent together. 0:05:38.871,0:05:43.409 And, uh, water[br]became a very important part of the bond 0:05:43.409,0:05:46.412 and the image and, the subject. 0:05:47.480,0:05:49.315 The viewer relationship 0:05:49.315,0:05:53.152 to the portrait is, I think, very erotic, 0:05:53.152,0:05:57.390 because there is this eye contact[br]and this ambiguity. 0:05:58.458,0:06:01.294 MODEL: We were spending a lot of time together 0:06:01.294,0:06:04.130 that affected the work, because 0:06:04.130,0:06:06.933 that created this trust, 0:06:08.634,0:06:11.637 which is very important. 0:06:12.105,0:06:14.006 HORN: In the case of [br]You Are the Weather, 0:06:14.006,0:06:18.911 I was curious to see[br]if I could elicit a place from her face, 0:06:18.911,0:06:21.647 almost like a landscape--[br]not...not in a literal sense, 0:06:21.647,0:06:24.650 but how close those identities were. 0:06:25.651,0:06:28.454 MODEL: And I remember when [br]I went to the opening, 0:06:28.454,0:06:31.457 I was shy to enter that room. 0:06:32.425,0:06:37.663 But my son, who was only five years old[br]at the time, he thought it was fantastic 0:06:37.663,0:06:40.666 and I would keep thinking of like,[br]you know, going into a room, 0:06:40.800,0:06:43.770 but only seeing your mom on the wall-- 0:06:43.770,0:06:46.172 that must be an experience. 0:06:46.172,0:06:49.909 And he kept calling me and saying, “Come,[br]come. Mom, have you seen this room?” 0:06:49.909,0:06:52.111 It’s all you, it’s all you!” 0:06:52.111,0:06:53.312 [ softly ]:[br]Oh... 0:06:59.752,0:07:01.220 HORN: There's this swimming pool, 0:07:01.220,0:07:04.223 actually, in Reykjavik[br]that I really fell in love with. 0:07:04.524,0:07:06.259 The swimming pool itself[br]is quite beautiful, 0:07:06.259,0:07:10.029 but then when I went down to the locker[br]room, the locker room was amazing. 0:07:10.530,0:07:14.333 It just struck[br]me as not only a kind of a Mobius, 0:07:14.333,0:07:16.836 because there are no edges,[br]there's all surface. 0:07:16.836,0:07:21.140 And there's not one interior exterior edge[br]among this net of lockers, 0:07:21.174,0:07:25.778 it's just an endless tiled surface.[br]And it's got a collection of doors 0:07:25.778,0:07:29.282 that are both open and closed,[br]and it's got these peepholes. 0:07:29.515,0:07:31.884 The peepholes are sort of[br]what really kind of drew me in, 0:07:31.884,0:07:32.718 because you just wonder, 0:07:32.718,0:07:35.721 "What the hell are those peepholes doing there?"[br]and nobody seems to know. 0:07:35.988,0:07:38.324 It was this incredible 0:07:38.324,0:07:41.327 kind of almost voyeuristic delight,[br]this space. 0:07:41.327,0:07:44.897 It was designed by a voyeur[br]and a chess player, I decided. 0:07:44.897,0:07:49.502 I shot it in a way[br]to kind of bring out more of that sensual 0:07:49.502,0:07:54.273 aspect to balance against the antiseptic[br]quality of the architecture. 0:07:55.541,0:07:56.809 I shot them as 0:07:56.809,0:08:00.079 almost like visual kind of, uh, traces. 0:08:03.649,0:08:05.184 There is a resemblance in the way 0:08:05.184,0:08:08.187 you move through the space[br]versus across a chessboard. 0:08:15.161,0:08:16.863 NIECE: Ronnie is my aunt, 0:08:16.863,0:08:19.832 and we have a really good relationship. 0:08:20.199,0:08:22.535 For a while,[br]we would send each other postcards 0:08:22.535,0:08:26.372 with to animals or to people or to objects 0:08:26.906,0:08:30.476 on them, and we would write,[br]“This is me,” and point to one, 0:08:30.476,0:08:31.944 “This is you.” 0:08:31.944,0:08:36.516 Each of the pictures in the book are taken[br]about two seconds or three seconds apart, 0:08:36.516,0:08:40.052 so if you were to look at one picture... 0:08:41.420,0:08:44.423 and then flip to the other side 0:08:44.790,0:08:47.326 and look at the first picture, 0:08:47.326,0:08:50.329 it would be the same image, 0:08:50.329,0:08:53.099 but a few seconds later. 0:08:53.099,0:08:56.269 HORN: So I really just recorded [br]her in action. 0:08:56.269,0:08:59.272 And it looks like she's performing[br]and all that stuff, 0:08:59.705,0:09:03.009 but you know, there's[br]that period of a girl becoming a woman 0:09:03.009,0:09:04.710 where they're trying on all these identities. 0:09:04.710,0:09:06.812 It’s very much of a portrait of a girl, 0:09:06.812,0:09:09.582 because all of that different dress[br]and the hair thing 0:09:09.582,0:09:13.819 and the...all this stuff with[br]the face was not orchestrated. 0:09:16.022,0:09:18.257 NIECE: It does take place [br]over about three years, 0:09:18.257,0:09:21.961 and just looking at it,[br]it's somewhat difficult to tell that it's 0:09:21.961,0:09:23.696 the same person. 0:09:23.696,0:09:27.300 For instance,[br]this one I have really, really short hair. 0:09:27.934,0:09:32.505 And then in this one[br]I'm wearing some yellow 0:09:32.505,0:09:35.508 glasses and I have longer hair. 0:09:36.542,0:09:38.044 HORN: “Down by Water”-- 0:09:38.044,0:09:42.782 it's the interrelationship between the two[br]faced image, the front-back composition. 0:09:42.782,0:09:46.185 It's the drawing of the many elements[br]interacting together, 0:09:46.185,0:09:49.188 and it's the drawing of the viewer[br]through the space. 0:09:51.624,0:09:53.459 And, you know,[br]this was originally a bank building, 0:09:53.459,0:09:56.462 and it's very beautifully proportioned[br]and very full of itself. 0:09:57.263,0:10:00.266 You can see the paneling[br]and the detailing and everything is... 0:10:01.067,0:10:04.138 uh, it's so beautifully designed[br]and of a piece. 0:10:04.138,0:10:09.675 It's really almost impossible to [br]occupy this space without, uh... 0:10:09.675,0:10:11.695 basically redefining it. 0:10:12.411,0:10:15.881 The piece flickers[br]between a three-dimensional experience 0:10:15.881,0:10:17.550 and a two-dimensional. 0:10:17.550,0:10:20.920 When I was putting this work together,[br]I knew that I wanted 0:10:20.953,0:10:25.278 disparate motifs[br]coming together in close quarter. 0:10:26.292,0:10:29.295 It's viewable from every angle. 0:10:29.295,0:10:32.198 That may seem like, "Oh, every[br]three-dimensional object is," 0:10:32.198,0:10:36.243 but usually the relationship to the space[br]is somewhat fixed. 0:10:37.036,0:10:38.404 And here it is.[br]And I mean, 0:10:38.404,0:10:42.208 as you walk around the grouping of,[br]you see these images are coming and going. 0:10:42.208,0:10:44.844 You're seeing some[br]and others are dropping out. 0:10:44.844,0:10:47.346 All of that has to be in a way, composed. 0:10:47.346,0:10:50.449 So this is a work[br]that has a very particular way 0:10:50.449,0:10:55.054 of moving the viewer through space[br]and through image space, 0:10:55.054,0:10:58.057 which is very different[br]than architectural space. 0:11:00.092,0:11:01.751 "The Cabinet Of" 0:11:02.595,0:11:05.264 I don't think I would have thought[br]to do that work there if I hadn't 0:11:05.264,0:11:09.712 seen this little room, which is so [br]claustrophobic, which was a vault. 0:11:11.070,0:11:12.738 It's a cabinet inside a cabinet, 0:11:12.738,0:11:15.741 and, uh, I love the idea [br]that it's in the basement 0:11:16.008,0:11:18.644 and it's just functioning[br]in a completely different way 0:11:18.644,0:11:20.000 than everything else. 0:11:23.649,0:11:26.185 The clown image,[br]even though it's a photographic 0:11:26.185,0:11:29.864 work, has an architectural component[br]and a psychological component. 0:11:30.282,0:11:34.244 You have the reference to something[br]figurative, but it's also symbolic. 0:11:34.960,0:11:37.496 It's using those photographs 0:11:37.496,0:11:39.496 in the drawing technique. 0:11:41.200,0:11:43.002 I like the idea of taking this 0:11:43.002,0:11:47.882 very formal institution[br]and putting a rubber floor in it. 0:11:48.107,0:11:52.499 I thought that is probably the right[br]balance. It would have, you know, 0:11:53.412,0:11:56.248 kept things[br]from from getting so out of whack 0:11:56.248,0:11:59.714 if we'd had that soft rubber floor[br]in a few hundred years ago. 0:12:04.523,0:12:08.239 My relationship to my work[br]is extremely verbal. 0:12:08.928,0:12:11.864 I am probably more [br]language-based than I am visual, 0:12:11.864,0:12:14.552 and I moved through language[br]to arrive at the visual, 0:12:15.968,0:12:19.807 although I think of text[br]as visual as well. 0:12:26.412,0:12:27.813 I never really distinguish 0:12:27.813,0:12:31.684 between symbolic visual language versus 0:12:31.684,0:12:34.527 descriptive visual photograph. 0:12:35.454,0:12:38.791 I don't think of myself as a photographer[br]or a sculptor. 0:12:38.791,0:12:41.494 I just think of myself[br]in a more broad way. 0:12:41.494,0:12:44.816 So that allows me[br]to draw upon these different forms... 0:12:45.431,0:12:48.434 without having to be identified with them. 0:12:50.236,0:12:54.740 You use metaphor to make yourself feel[br]at home in the world. 0:12:54.740,0:12:57.743 You use metaphor[br]to extinguish the unknown. 0:12:58.444,0:13:01.914 And for me, the problem is the unknown 0:13:01.914,0:13:03.936 is where I want to be. 0:13:05.017,0:13:07.199 I don't want it extinguished. 0:13:26.071,0:13:26.672 To learn more 0:13:26.672,0:13:30.976 about Art 21 Art in the 21st century[br]and to download the Free 0:13:30.976,0:13:35.881 Educators Guide, please[br]visit PBS online@pbs.org. 0:13:39.084,0:13:41.353 Part 21 Art in the 21st 0:13:41.353,0:13:45.691 century is available on video cassette[br]or with additional features on DVD. 0:13:47.760,0:13:50.830 In the companion book to the program[br]is also available. 0:13:51.063,0:13:51.730 To order. 0:13:51.730,0:13:56.135 Call PBS Home Video at one 800 play PBS.