[Script Info]
Title: 
[Events]
Format: Layer, Start, End, Style, Name, MarginL, MarginR, MarginV, Effect, Text
Dialogue: 0,0:00:00.28,0:00:05.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,One of the most iconic and time-honored human-animal relationships is that of horse and rider.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:05.86,0:00:10.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,From the noble steeds of battle to a little\Ngirl’s first pony, the bond people share
Dialogue: 0,0:00:10.11,0:00:16.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with their horses seems to border on the profound,\Nand the idea of giving up riding is incomprehensible.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:16.76,0:00:21.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So what would lead a lifelong trainer, trader,\Nand rider, who lived and breathed horses for
Dialogue: 0,0:00:21.87,0:00:27.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,years, to not only give it all up, but even\Nquestion concept of domestication itself?
Dialogue: 0,0:00:27.35,0:00:32.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,To look back and realize that what she’d\Nso long considered her love of horses, was
Dialogue: 0,0:00:32.30,0:00:34.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in reality her love of power.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:39.04,0:00:42.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Hi it's Emily from Bite Size Vegan and welcome\Nto another vegan nugget.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:42.67,0:00:47.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Of all of the sensitive topics I’ve covered,\Nfrom religion to abortion, my videos on horse
Dialogue: 0,0:00:47.87,0:00:51.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,riding ethics have by far sparked the most\Ncontroversy.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:51.56,0:00:56.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,While I personally have very limited experience\Nwith horses, my guest today built her entire
Dialogue: 0,0:00:56.07,0:00:58.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,identity around the training, trading and\Nriding of horses.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:58.95,0:01:04.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,With brutal honesty and admirable self-analysis,\NRen Hurst shares her journey in her memoir
Dialogue: 0,0:01:04.89,0:01:09.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Riding On The Power Of Others, and was kind\Nenough to spare some time to be on the channel.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:09.84,0:01:13.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,She has a lot of powerful insights to share,\Nso let’s get right to it!
Dialogue: 0,0:01:13.98,0:01:18.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Emily: Ren I want to thank you so much for\Ntaking time out of your schedule to sit here
Dialogue: 0,0:01:18.16,0:01:19.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and answer some questions and share your journey.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:20.60,0:01:24.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Ren: Well thank you Emily, I’m honored to\Nhave a chance to talk to you this way
Dialogue: 0,0:01:24.22,0:01:27.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Emily: So you’ve had a really profound journey\Nwith your relationship to horses, through
Dialogue: 0,0:01:27.62,0:01:31.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a variety of training philosophies and approaches\Nover this period.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:31.39,0:01:36.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Could you share a little of your initial mindset\Nwhen you first started working with horses
Dialogue: 0,0:01:36.02,0:01:41.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,informally as a kid, and then how that compared\Nand evolved with your first formal training?
Dialogue: 0,0:01:41.64,0:01:45.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Ren: I got my first horse when I was 12 so\Nit’s right around the time of puberty, my
Dialogue: 0,0:01:45.69,0:01:51.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,home life was a mess, hormones, all kinds\Nof craziness, it was just literally a way
Dialogue: 0,0:01:51.67,0:01:54.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to deal with all of that at the time.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:54.58,0:01:58.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And then around 16 I got my first formal training.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:58.54,0:02:05.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I really didn’t like how my horse was being\Ntreated, and yet through this - what I perceived
Dialogue: 0,0:02:05.20,0:02:09.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as violent treatment of her, I was able to\Ndo the things that I wanted to do.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:09.24,0:02:14.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And it was being condoned, pushed and celebrated\Nby people who were very, very respected in
Dialogue: 0,0:02:14.80,0:02:18.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the field of horsemanship but it was effective\Nand that changed the course of my life -
Dialogue: 0,0:02:18.42,0:02:19.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,being taught violence.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:19.93,0:02:23.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This was very much the general, traditional\Ntype of horsemanship.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:23.21,0:02:27.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Basically they were teaching her how to lunge\Nwhich is how to send her around in circles
Dialogue: 0,0:02:27.82,0:02:31.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(on a line usually), and she was really unruly.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:31.23,0:02:35.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Their answer to that was to run a stud chain\Nthrough the halter - the nose of the halter,
Dialogue: 0,0:02:35.33,0:02:38.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which is very typical, it’s very common\Npractice.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:39.12,0:02:43.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I remember thinking ‘oh my god they’re\Nreally hurting her when they do that’ but
Dialogue: 0,0:02:43.72,0:02:47.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,then they taught me how to do it, and it worked.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:47.47,0:02:53.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You know that’s the very beginnings of my\Njourney, but that feeling and that teaching
Dialogue: 0,0:02:53.52,0:02:59.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,at a young age - that it’s ok to control\Nand use violence to get what you want and
Dialogue: 0,0:02:59.14,0:03:02.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,what you need from somebody, really affected my life\Nlong term.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:02.07,0:03:07.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Emily: One of the major shifts that you had\Nwith your relationship with horses was your
Dialogue: 0,0:03:07.23,0:03:09.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,introduction to what is called natural horsemanship.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:09.13,0:03:15.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Can you share a little bit about what that\Nmeans and how that differs from what you were
Dialogue: 0,0:03:15.28,0:03:16.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,calling traditional approach?
Dialogue: 0,0:03:16.50,0:03:20.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Ren: I found natural horsemanship like most\Npeople, I thought that ‘oh wow this is the
Dialogue: 0,0:03:20.15,0:03:21.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,greatest thing ever’.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:21.51,0:03:25.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And looking back on it now it’s a completely\Ndifferent way of seeing it.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:25.61,0:03:30.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But when it was introduced to me I was already\Npretty deep in the game, I had already learned
Dialogue: 0,0:03:30.79,0:03:36.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,how to train horses traditionally, I was already\Nbuying and selling and making a profit that way.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:36.90,0:03:42.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The whole natural horsemanship thing is this\Ngrand delusion of love and cooperation and
Dialogue: 0,0:03:42.27,0:03:47.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,respect and trust because at the end of the\Nday you are still forcing the horse, you are
Dialogue: 0,0:03:47.65,0:03:53.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,still moving their feet, you are still manipulating,\Nyou are still coercing, you are still the
Dialogue: 0,0:03:53.65,0:03:56.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,one that has the say at the end of the day.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:56.37,0:04:01.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And they sell it in this little gift wrapped\Npackage of love and cooperation and respect
Dialogue: 0,0:04:01.73,0:04:07.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and trust, and there’s just this total cognitive\Ndissonance with people, that if you apply
Dialogue: 0,0:04:07.15,0:04:13.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,those same terms to your personal human relationships that is not what those words look like.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:13.18,0:04:18.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It’s based on watching natural herd dynamics,\Nbut what people don’t realise is that it’s
Dialogue: 0,0:04:18.91,0:04:26.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,based on natural herd dynamics in survival\Nmode, not in the natural true essence of a
Dialogue: 0,0:04:26.00,0:04:30.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,thriving community of wild horses in their\Nnatural state, where resources are abundant,
Dialogue: 0,0:04:30.44,0:04:35.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and there’s more harmony and cooperation,\Nwhich we don’t see here in America because
Dialogue: 0,0:04:35.62,0:04:40.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,wild horse herds are under a tremendous amount\Nof stress, due to the fact that the predators
Dialogue: 0,0:04:40.92,0:04:45.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,are gone because we’re using their land\Nto graze sheep and cattle and it’s all a
Dialogue: 0,0:04:45.82,0:04:49.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,mess and quite honestly it all goes back to\Npeople’s desire to eat meat.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:49.42,0:04:55.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But basing natural horsemanship on the natural\Ndynamics of horses the way they are today
Dialogue: 0,0:04:55.78,0:05:00.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is like basing natural human behaviour on\Nwatching a prison yard.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:00.90,0:05:06.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Emily: So one of the schools that you go to\Ntowards the end of your journey through the
Dialogue: 0,0:05:06.30,0:05:10.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,different methodologies of training and something\Nthat you flirted with a little bit on and
Dialogue: 0,0:05:10.45,0:05:14.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,off throughout the book before that period\Nwas with Alexander Nevzorov.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:14.91,0:05:19.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Could you talk a little bit about his approach\Nbecause it seems to be the most outlying of
Dialogue: 0,0:05:19.71,0:05:24.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,all of the different formal trainings with\Nthe horse cannon.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:24.31,0:05:31.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Ren: Basically it’s approaching the horse\Nas an absolute equal and really meaning that.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:31.32,0:05:37.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I mean, you don’t talk down to them, you don’t\Nanthropomorphize, it’s all very logical,
Dialogue: 0,0:05:37.28,0:05:38.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,very practical.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:38.88,0:05:42.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Zero equipment is needed or necessary.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:42.80,0:05:46.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,No treats, no coercion, no anything.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:46.41,0:05:50.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You have nothing but your authentic self to\Nshow up with and present to this horse,
Dialogue: 0,0:05:50.95,0:05:55.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and basically the education of the horse looks\Nvery similar to how you would educate a small
Dialogue: 0,0:05:55.93,0:05:58.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,child that does not speak English.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:58.03,0:06:03.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so it took a tremendous amount of faith\Non my part just to believe that maybe this
Dialogue: 0,0:06:03.84,0:06:05.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is possible.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:05.38,0:06:12.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And it was that faith that took me through\Nthe barriers of realising what in fact was
Dialogue: 0,0:06:12.00,0:06:17.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,possible with these animals and how horrendous\Nit is, what we do to them when they are capable
Dialogue: 0,0:06:17.56,0:06:21.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of understanding us at such an elevated level.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:21.13,0:06:26.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Emily: On your book it is very clear that\Nyou’ve built your entire identity around
Dialogue: 0,0:06:26.12,0:06:29.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,training, trading, and riding horses.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:29.01,0:06:34.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So how and why do you finally reach the decision\Nto give up riding?
Dialogue: 0,0:06:34.37,0:06:37.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Ren: It was not an easy decision.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:37.22,0:06:43.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It was extremely emotional, I remember the\Nvery moment that I sat Brandy down in my office
Dialogue: 0,0:06:43.00,0:06:48.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I took her hand and said: ‘I’m really\Nsorry, but I can’t ride anymore’.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:48.35,0:06:55.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That was our whole life, which meant that\Nour whole future was going to be totally shifted
Dialogue: 0,0:06:55.02,0:06:56.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because of this decision.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:56.90,0:06:59.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,She wasn’t ready to quit riding and neither\Nwas my apprentice.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:59.50,0:07:01.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,My apprentice still rides.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:01.56,0:07:03.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Nobody in my life.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:03.53,0:07:07.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I had a huge following in Texas, and everybody\Nthought I had completely gone off the deep end.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:07.60,0:07:12.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I can explain this all day long,\Nand people can get it in their heads all day
Dialogue: 0,0:07:12.88,0:07:16.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,long (which is what drives me crazy about\Npeople needing the science of it) because
Dialogue: 0,0:07:16.16,0:07:22.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as important of that is, this is an experiential\Nchange, and it can only be changed through
Dialogue: 0,0:07:22.15,0:07:28.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the feeling of the experience of connecting\Nwith an animal in this profound way.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:28.01,0:07:33.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Most people have no idea that the animals\Nthey are spending time with are in an absolute
Dialogue: 0,0:07:33.66,0:07:38.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,state of learned helplessness, of conditioning,\Nthat doesn’t even allow to experience their
Dialogue: 0,0:07:38.78,0:07:42.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,true nature. What you are experiencing is like this empty
Dialogue: 0,0:07:42.32,0:07:47.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,shell version, or even an ignorant version
Dialogue: 0,0:07:47.08,0:07:48.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the animal in front of you.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:48.89,0:07:52.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That is why a lot of times the animals come\Nout as seemingly unintelligent, because we
Dialogue: 0,0:07:52.78,0:07:54.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,keep them stupid.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:54.64,0:08:01.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So because of the NHE school, I was experiencing\NShai in an entirely different way than I had
Dialogue: 0,0:08:01.94,0:08:06.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,ever experienced a horse before, because the\Nschool required me to show up and treat him
Dialogue: 0,0:08:06.89,0:08:08.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as an equal.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:08.05,0:08:12.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So that’s what I did and by God if he didn’t\Nshow up as one.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:12.86,0:08:19.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The level of communication sucked, it ruined\Nmy life.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:19.04,0:08:24.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Here’s the thing, once I had experienced\Nit with him we started applying it to our
Dialogue: 0,0:08:24.64,0:08:30.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,other horses and one by one they started healing\Nand changing and becoming totally different
Dialogue: 0,0:08:30.77,0:08:34.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,versions of themselves (when we had know these\Nhorses for years).
Dialogue: 0,0:08:34.52,0:08:39.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We were those people that would have said:\N‘we have this beautiful relationship blah
Dialogue: 0,0:08:39.26,0:08:41.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,blah blah…’
Dialogue: 0,0:08:41.30,0:08:43.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But we didn’t know any of them.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:43.46,0:08:50.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The very last horse I had in my training paddock—I’ve\Nalways had a really hard time actually talking
Dialogue: 0,0:08:50.86,0:08:58.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to the animals because it felt awkward—I\Ngot up there and I sat on his back and I placed
Dialogue: 0,0:08:58.41,0:09:06.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,my hands on his withers and I just asked him:\N‘Is it OK for me to be up here?’
Dialogue: 0,0:09:06.90,0:09:11.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And he just had this really deep sigh and\Ndropped his head.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:11.60,0:09:17.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I don’t know how to explain this other than\Nit felt like he said ‘yes’ but with total
Dialogue: 0,0:09:17.64,0:09:23.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,resignation, like it wasn’t coming from\Na good place.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:23.26,0:09:29.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I knew that feeling, I knew that feeling deeply\Nof saying ‘yes’ when it really, really
Dialogue: 0,0:09:29.87,0:09:31.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,wasn’t what you wanted.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:32.10,0:09:34.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I just slipped off of him and I was completely\Ndone.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:34.98,0:09:41.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I had trained hundreds of horses, I’m not\Nan idiot, I could go back through that film
Dialogue: 0,0:09:41.36,0:09:47.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,reel of all the horses I trained and remember\Nall the times they said ‘no’, and I manipulated
Dialogue: 0,0:09:47.21,0:09:51.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,them into saying ‘yes’ or loved them enough\Nto get them to say ‘yes’ to me all the time.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:52.30,0:09:57.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But with Shai, because the school required\Nyou to honor every single ‘no’ 100%, if
Dialogue: 0,0:09:57.98,0:10:01.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,he said ‘no’ in any way, all I could do\Nwas walk away.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:01.98,0:10:06.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It wasn’t about manipulating or getting\Nto the ‘yes’, it was about dropping all
Dialogue: 0,0:10:06.54,0:10:12.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,sense of agenda or expectation, and allowing\Nthe horse to truly have an equal say in whatever
Dialogue: 0,0:10:12.19,0:10:14.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,developed between the two of you.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:14.34,0:10:15.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Nobody does that in training.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:15.86,0:10:17.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That’s not training, that’s relationship.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:18.66,0:10:22.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You have to almost experience a truly free\Nhorse if you’re a trainer to walk away from
Dialogue: 0,0:10:22.84,0:10:28.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it, otherwise your perception of what horses\Nare and how they behave is really skewed.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:28.00,0:10:32.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We really don’t know the essence of what\Nlove really means, and that’s what this
Dialogue: 0,0:10:32.50,0:10:37.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,work has turned into beyond horse training\Nor NHE or any of that.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:37.20,0:10:44.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The whole thing we do now, is we’ve essentially\Nlearned a method of undomesticating animals
Dialogue: 0,0:10:44.04,0:10:47.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or people in a domesticated state through\Nthis unconditional love and action which is
Dialogue: 0,0:10:47.95,0:10:53.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,extremely difficult, is not woo-woo, it’s\Nvery logical, it’s very practical, it works,
Dialogue: 0,0:10:53.96,0:10:57.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it’s very effective, and you have to be\Nreally ready to show up for it because it
Dialogue: 0,0:10:57.75,0:11:02.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,brings up the darkest aspects of you that\Nmost people don’t want to face, which is
Dialogue: 0,0:11:02.30,0:11:06.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,why most people like to keep their animals\Nthe way they are because that is their source
Dialogue: 0,0:11:06.90,0:11:10.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of unconditional love that they’re not willing\Nto find within themselves.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:10.58,0:11:15.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And the way we work with animals here at the\Nsanctuary is it’s a practice center.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:15.84,0:11:21.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It’s practicing this way of relating in\Na truly unconditional manner that heals the
Dialogue: 0,0:11:21.10,0:11:25.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,domesticated subject and gives you a chance\Nto heal yourself out of a domesticated state
Dialogue: 0,0:11:25.65,0:11:28.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that society and conditioning has placed us\Nin.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:28.13,0:11:32.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, by liberating the animals, and practicing\Nworking within these parameters of keeping
Dialogue: 0,0:11:32.99,0:11:39.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it honest and keeping it at that level, you\Ngrow tremendously as a person and there’s
Dialogue: 0,0:11:39.00,0:11:42.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,not a lot of people signing up for that yet\Nbecause it’s really hard work.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:42.36,0:11:47.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Emily: So one of the main objections that\NI hear from horse owners in response to a
Dialogue: 0,0:11:47.72,0:11:52.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,few of the videos I’ve done on horse ethics,\Nwhich I read throughout your book as well,
Dialogue: 0,0:11:52.14,0:11:58.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is this assertion that - they love their horses,\Nand that their horses in turn love to be ridden.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:58.20,0:12:03.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You know how people say, “My horse even\Ncomes up and asks to be ridden, or gets excited
Dialogue: 0,0:12:03.62,0:12:09.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,when I have the saddle,” So, how do you\Nrespond when you receive these kind of objections?
Dialogue: 0,0:12:09.17,0:12:14.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Ren: Well, it depends on if I’m trying to\Nword it in a way that actually reaches people
Dialogue: 0,0:12:14.36,0:12:20.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or if I just answer off-the-cuff, because\Nit is insanity, it’s absolute insanity,
Dialogue: 0,0:12:20.00,0:12:24.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and what’s worse about it is that many of\Nthe horses that are displaying these behaviors
Dialogue: 0,0:12:24.31,0:12:29.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that they like to be strapped with the dead\Nbody parts of another animal and have this
Dialogue: 0,0:12:29.21,0:12:35.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,metal rod stuck in their mouth, they probably\Ndo because their life experience is
Dialogue: 0,0:12:35.50,0:12:40.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so limited, that that looks like fun in comparison\Nto standing in a stall all day.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:40.62,0:12:46.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There’s such a disconnect between this use of\Nthe word “love,” and what we actually
Dialogue: 0,0:12:46.33,0:12:49.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,do with these animals.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:49.24,0:12:57.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I know that these people feel love towards\Ntheir horses, without a doubt, no question,
Dialogue: 0,0:12:57.36,0:13:02.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but, if it’s the same love that you feel\Ntoward your family members - I mean, do you
Dialogue: 0,0:13:02.03,0:13:06.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,place your family members in bondage, micro-manage\Nevery aspect of their lives, and then climb
Dialogue: 0,0:13:06.88,0:13:09.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on them whenever you want and ask them to\Ntake you around.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:09.28,0:13:12.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The answer is ‘no,’ and if you do, I don’t\Nwant to be a part of your family.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:12.79,0:13:16.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But, it’s like, how obvious is that?
Dialogue: 0,0:13:16.43,0:13:19.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That’s not a loving relationship, and it’s\Nnot an equal relationship.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:19.95,0:13:25.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This is a being you have placed in your control\Nand in your care, and then you call that “love.”
Dialogue: 0,0:13:25.97,0:13:30.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What that is, is something entirely different.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:30.88,0:13:38.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I mean, there’s nothing “loving” about\Nusing someone for your own personal benefit.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:38.48,0:13:40.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Love is way bigger than just a feeling.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:40.85,0:13:45.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That feeling is more like affection, and it’s\Nmore attachment-based.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:45.18,0:13:48.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Emily: Why do you think that this is so difficult\Nfor people to break
Dialogue: 0,0:13:48.06,0:13:50.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with this concept of riding horses?
Dialogue: 0,0:13:50.84,0:13:55.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Ren: People are deeply attached to being able\Nto use the horse for their sense of power
Dialogue: 0,0:13:55.33,0:13:57.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- women especially.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:57.26,0:14:01.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Ninety-five percent of my clientele, the whole\Ntime I was in the horse industry, was women,
Dialogue: 0,0:14:01.99,0:14:07.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,ages, probably between 40 and 75 years old,\Nand I cannot even tell you how many times
Dialogue: 0,0:14:07.70,0:14:11.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I’ve heard the words, “my horses saved\Nmy life.”
Dialogue: 0,0:14:11.48,0:14:16.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It’s such a painful thing to hear, and I\Ndon’t argue with people when I hear it.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:16.52,0:14:23.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But the truth is, is if your emotional connection\Nto another being is where your dependency
Dialogue: 0,0:14:23.25,0:14:29.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on survival lies, then you’re\Ngiving your power away, and women taking the
Dialogue: 0,0:14:29.27,0:14:34.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,power away from the horses is a lot of times\Nhow they make it in this world, when the rest
Dialogue: 0,0:14:34.18,0:14:38.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of their relationships are not necessarily\Nworking, or if they don’t feel powerful
Dialogue: 0,0:14:38.10,0:14:42.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in other areas of their lives, and I saw this\Nagain and again and again.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:42.24,0:14:48.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,When I stopped riding, and was still trimming\Nhooves for my clients, so many of them would
Dialogue: 0,0:14:48.25,0:14:52.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,get tears in their eyes because they could\Nsee and feel the truth of what I was talking
Dialogue: 0,0:14:52.95,0:14:57.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about and they knew someone like me would\Nnever give up riding if there wasn’t something
Dialogue: 0,0:14:57.49,0:15:01.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,profoundly true about why I did it, because\NI’m not that person.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:01.85,0:15:07.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This wasn’t an easy emotional decision for\Nme, it just makes absolute sense.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:07.58,0:15:12.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But to give that up before they knew what\Nto replace it with would’ve been death
Dialogue: 0,0:15:12.14,0:15:14.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for them - maybe literally.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:14.18,0:15:21.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Riding, to many people, is as much a dependency\Nas any other drug that’s keeping them functioning.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:21.76,0:15:27.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It’s a really, really hard thing to give\Nup if it’s your main source of joy
Dialogue: 0,0:15:27.36,0:15:28.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and freedom in the world
Dialogue: 0,0:15:28.50,0:15:34.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Emily: There are many vegans that continue\Nto ride horses - do you find that the objections
Dialogue: 0,0:15:34.32,0:15:43.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that you receive for giving up riding mirror\Nthose that we tend to receive when people
Dialogue: 0,0:15:43.14,0:15:46.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,are resisting shifting to veganism?
Dialogue: 0,0:15:46.51,0:15:51.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Ren: Many vegans, whether they understand\Nit or know it or not, are still exploiting animals.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:51.65,0:15:58.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,When the focus is on the actual physical harm,\Nrather than the exploitation aspect of this,
Dialogue: 0,0:15:58.17,0:16:00.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,there’s still a disconnect.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:00.14,0:16:04.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So it’s very similar, the arguments remain\Nthe same because people are jumping on this
Dialogue: 0,0:16:04.94,0:16:09.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,moral issue rather than the issue of ‘why\Nare we doing this in the first place
Dialogue: 0,0:16:09.44,0:16:11.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and is it necessary?’
Dialogue: 0,0:16:11.14,0:16:15.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,‘And what am I getting out of it and what\Nare my motivations for continuing it?’
Dialogue: 0,0:16:17.22,0:16:21.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,“Having underestimated the intelligence\Nlevel of animals for so long and at such great
Dialogue: 0,0:16:21.86,0:16:26.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,depth, when I was exposed to the truth of\Nwhat they were really able to understand,
Dialogue: 0,0:16:26.55,0:16:29.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,being surrounded by them left me feeling\Nlike a slave owner.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:29.66,0:16:31.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It’s no wonder we keep them stupid.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:31.58,0:16:35.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Isn’t that exactly how we were able to control\Nmembers of our own species for so long?
Dialogue: 0,0:16:35.96,0:16:40.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,One will never be able to understand the intellectual\Ncapability of another if they are only willing
Dialogue: 0,0:16:40.70,0:16:43.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to weigh it against their own understanding\Nof that individual.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:43.51,0:16:47.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If we believe animals to be stupid, and we\Nkeep them under our control,
Dialogue: 0,0:16:47.61,0:16:48.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they will be stupid.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:48.92,0:16:52.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Unless we create an environment and a situation\Nwhere they can advance.”
Dialogue: 0,0:16:52.66,0:16:54.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I hope you enjoyed hearing from Ren about\Nher journey.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:54.79,0:16:59.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You can find links below to her ongoing video\Nseries on Facebook and YouTube, as well
Dialogue: 0,0:16:59.82,0:17:04.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as to her book and the New World Sanctuary\NFoundation to follow and support their work.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:04.66,0:17:09.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It’s important for all of us—vegans included—to\Nbe mindful of our relationships and interactions
Dialogue: 0,0:17:09.57,0:17:12.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with all beings, human and non-human alike.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:12.27,0:17:15.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If you liked this video, do give it a thumbs up and share it around to help
Dialogue: 0,0:17:15.73,0:17:20.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,others learn to truly love horses, and subscribe\Nfor more vegan content every week.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:20.98,0:17:24.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,To help support Bite Size Vegan’s educational\Nefforts, please see the support links below
Dialogue: 0,0:17:24.99,0:17:26.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or the link in the sidebar.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:26.65,0:17:30.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Now go live vegan, learn to love unconditionally,\Nand I’ll see you soon.