1
00:00:10,085 --> 00:00:16,620
The month of September 1942
is etched in my memory.

2
00:00:16,989 --> 00:00:20,459
It was a few weeks
before my twelfth birthday,

3
00:00:20,510 --> 00:00:22,950
and my father had just died.

4
00:00:23,520 --> 00:00:26,554
My mother, who had
no professional training,

5
00:00:27,044 --> 00:00:33,340
found it very hard to spend
the fees for our school fees.

6
00:00:33,650 --> 00:00:35,833
And my three brothers and me,

7
00:00:36,993 --> 00:00:41,355
she took the help of friends
and scholarships

8
00:00:41,695 --> 00:00:43,460
in order to educate us.

9
00:00:44,294 --> 00:00:48,670
She didn't make a difference 
between my brothers and me.

10
00:00:49,470 --> 00:00:52,842
All she wanted was that
all of us should excel.

11
00:00:54,126 --> 00:00:57,913
When I was 20, I had
a semi-arranged marriage,

12
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and my husband was posted,
in 1954, to England,

13
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and I went with him.

14
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And I took advantage of being there
for three years and studied law.

15
00:01:11,796 --> 00:01:14,104
When I returned to India,

16
00:01:14,404 --> 00:01:20,405
I was required to train with a senior 
before I could practice law.

17
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So I decided I should get the best lawyer,

18
00:01:23,856 --> 00:01:25,569
join the best lawyer,

19
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and I zeroed down on someone 
called Sachin Chaudhary.

20
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But it was extremely difficult
to get an appointment with him.

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After great difficulty, I did,

22
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and I was full of trepidation
when I went to meet him.

23
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But I put on a brave front, 
just as I am doing now.

24
00:01:48,508 --> 00:01:49,877
(Laughter)

25
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(Applause)

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He had some idea why I had come,

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but he wanted to be completely clear.

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So I told him that I wanted
to practice law

29
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and I wanted to join his chambers.

30
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He was not in favor
of women joining the law,

31
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so he tried to dissuade me.

32
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He said,

33
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"Young woman, instead of joining 
the legal profession,

34
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go and get married."

35
00:02:21,231 --> 00:02:22,268
(Laughter)

36
00:02:22,268 --> 00:02:23,281
So I said to him,

37
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"Sir, I am already married."

38
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(Laughter)

39
00:02:26,685 --> 00:02:29,676
"Then go and have a child," he advised.

40
00:02:29,676 --> 00:02:32,042
"I already have a child."

41
00:02:32,042 --> 00:02:33,223
(Laughter)

42
00:02:33,223 --> 00:02:36,531
"It's not fair to the child to be alone,

43
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so you should have a second child."

44
00:02:38,757 --> 00:02:40,088
(Laughter)

45
00:02:40,088 --> 00:02:43,528
I said, "Mr. Chaudhary,
I have two children."

46
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(Laughter)

47
00:02:46,618 --> 00:02:49,982
So, taken aback
for the third time, he said,

48
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"Come and join my chambers.

49
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You're a persistent young woman,
and you will do well at the bar."

50
00:02:57,616 --> 00:03:00,235
After about 20 years of practice,

51
00:03:00,235 --> 00:03:03,550
I was appointed a judge
at the Delhi High Court,

52
00:03:03,550 --> 00:03:05,927
and in 1991,

53
00:03:06,307 --> 00:03:11,113
I was the first woman to be chief justice
of a state high court.

54
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(Applause)

55
00:03:18,292 --> 00:03:19,527
As I mentioned earlier,

56
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I was 20 when I got married,

57
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and my fiancee and his family 
never demanded a dowry or anything else.

58
00:03:30,423 --> 00:03:32,215
We had a simple celebration.

59
00:03:33,447 --> 00:03:38,254
We served vanilla ice cream
and salted cashew nuts.

60
00:03:38,254 --> 00:03:42,317
But we still had fun,
and we enjoyed ourselves.

61
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So, you can see, that you
don't need anything extra.

62
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But I, now, I'm happily married
for the last 64 years.

63
00:03:52,238 --> 00:03:54,039
(Applause)

64
00:04:01,879 --> 00:04:06,199
Every woman, every mother,
wants her daughter to be married.

65
00:04:06,613 --> 00:04:08,333
And when she meets a young man,

66
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she tries to size him up
to find out if he's a suitable boy.

67
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But at the back of her mind is worry.

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Does he want a dowry?

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If so, how much?

70
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In fact, it's the curse of dowry

71
00:04:26,095 --> 00:04:30,780
that makes parents not want to have girls.

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In the old days, when girls and boys
didn't have equal inheritance,

73
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a young girl was given stridhan, 
which is bride's wealth,

74
00:04:43,252 --> 00:04:45,022
at the time of her marriage.

75
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It was something that was passed 
from a mother to her daughter

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00:04:49,452 --> 00:04:50,934
and consisted of jewelry.

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It was her personal property.

78
00:04:53,310 --> 00:04:59,085
But even that was often taken away
by the bride-groom's parents

79
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and given to the groom's sister 
when she was getting married.

80
00:05:02,759 --> 00:05:05,059
So the bride had nothing.

81
00:05:06,419 --> 00:05:09,289
Slowly, the prevalence of dowries started.

82
00:05:09,289 --> 00:05:11,415
This meant gifts were given

83
00:05:11,415 --> 00:05:13,175
not only to the bride

84
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but to the bride-groom and to his family.

85
00:05:17,664 --> 00:05:20,242
And demands, dowry demands,

86
00:05:20,242 --> 00:05:23,696
were negotiated at the time
of an arranged marriage.

87
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Parents were worried as to how 
they would meet these demands,

88
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which sometimes increased
from day to day and from hour to hour

89
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as the wedding date approached.

90
00:05:36,693 --> 00:05:41,003
Sometimes, just as the wedding ceremony
was about to take place,

91
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a fresh demand would be made.

92
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It was a great trauma for parents,

93
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especially those who had
more than one daughter.

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They were bankrupt,
spent more than they had,

95
00:05:51,864 --> 00:05:57,736
and the extortion sometimes 
continued even after the wedding.

96
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So instead of loving their daughters
and wanting to have them,

97
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they considered them a curse.

98
00:06:04,913 --> 00:06:09,710
And they resorted to something
like female feticide

99
00:06:09,710 --> 00:06:11,818
or female infanticide.

100
00:06:13,559 --> 00:06:17,638
In order to prevent this evil of dowry,

101
00:06:17,981 --> 00:06:19,183
an act was passed.

102
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It was called the Dowry Prohibition Act,

103
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1961.

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Before the act,
dowries were displayed openly.

105
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After the act, the displays stopped.

106
00:06:30,498 --> 00:06:33,893
But the giving and taking
of dowry continued,

107
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and the demand for ostentatious
functions and feasts

108
00:06:40,148 --> 00:06:42,365
by the bride-groom's family,

109
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to be paid for by the bride's family,

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continued.

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This was really terrible.

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And very few parents

113
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would reject a young man

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if he or his family demanded a dowry.

115
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Most would not,

116
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even though they knew
it was illegal to give or take a dowry.

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Let me give you an example.

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The year was 1991.

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A very senior Supreme Court of India judge

120
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had arranged his daughter's wedding.

121
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I asked him,

122
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"Are you going to give a dowry?"

123
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Remember,

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this was 30 years after the passing
of the Dowry Prohibition Act.

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He was quiet.

126
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And then he said,

127
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"I'll tell you the honest truth.

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I will indeed give a dowry for my daughter

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because I cannot sacrifice
her happiness and her life.

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In my community, she cannot
get married without a dowry.

131
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But I promise you,
I will not take a dowry for my son."

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This is not what I wanted to hear,

133
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but at least it was half a step forward.

134
00:08:06,193 --> 00:08:07,621
So what do you think?

135
00:08:08,654 --> 00:08:11,947
Can the passing of laws change attitudes?

136
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In India, with a very patriarchal society,

137
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changing attitudes and changing
mindsets is extremely difficult,

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and it's a slow process,
but we need to fast-forward it.

139
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I had hoped

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that with the succession laws
being changed

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and daughters getting
some inheritance rights,

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the law would have had
some effect on the evil of dowry.

143
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In 1956,

144
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the Hindu Succession Act was passed,

145
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and in that year,

146
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it was provided in the act
that daughters and sons

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would get equally

148
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from their father's property
which was self-acquired.

149
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This, of course, 
should have made a difference.

150
00:09:07,543 --> 00:09:09,943
But it didn't seem to have done that.

151
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In fact, women
were not willing to assert.

152
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Let me tell you of an incident.

153
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I was a judge at the Delhi High Court.

154
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Three young men
came for me and wanted -

155
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their father had died,

156
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he hadn't left a will,

157
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and they wanted their property
to be divided into three parts.

158
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I found they had three sisters.

159
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So I said to them,

160
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"I will divide it into six parts
because that's what the law says,

161
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and each sibling should get one share."

162
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They protested.

163
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They said,

164
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"Our sisters are married,

165
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our sisters have got dowries,

166
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and they have given us 
relinquishment deeds."

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I was not happy, so I insisted
they bring the sisters to court

168
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because I was not sure

169
00:10:01,907 --> 00:10:06,137
whether the sisters had been coerced
into giving their relinquishment deeds

170
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or they didn't know the law.

171
00:10:08,763 --> 00:10:10,748
When the women came, I asked them,

172
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"Do you know the law?"

173
00:10:12,539 --> 00:10:15,721
And they said, "Yes."

174
00:10:15,721 --> 00:10:17,809
"So then why are you
giving up your share?"

175
00:10:18,740 --> 00:10:20,491
And this is what they said:

176
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"We do not want to have
any problems with our brothers

177
00:10:27,214 --> 00:10:30,239
or spoil our relationships
with our brothers

178
00:10:30,239 --> 00:10:34,943
because if in the future
we need anything of any sort,

179
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to whom shall we turn
except our brothers, our natal family?"

180
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So they knew what was happening.

181
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And I said to the young men,

182
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"If you were six brothers,

183
00:10:51,468 --> 00:10:54,959
you would have happily shared 
and got one-sixth each,

184
00:10:54,959 --> 00:10:57,559
so why are you depriving your sisters?"

185
00:10:58,058 --> 00:10:59,975
But they were adamant,

186
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and their sisters also were not willing
to withdraw their relinquishment deeds.

187
00:11:06,906 --> 00:11:11,956
So, though they were aware,
they were not willing to assert.

188
00:11:14,293 --> 00:11:19,103
Many people are not aware
that since 2005 -

189
00:11:19,325 --> 00:11:21,045
that's almost 10 years ago -

190
00:11:22,260 --> 00:11:26,480
the daughters' rights of inheritance
have been widened

191
00:11:26,480 --> 00:11:31,146
and now include not only
the self-acquired property of the father

192
00:11:31,486 --> 00:11:34,776
but also the ancestral property -

193
00:11:36,440 --> 00:11:42,146
unless, of course, the father
wills away the property to someone else.

194
00:11:42,287 --> 00:11:45,075
So fathers, we tell you,

195
00:11:45,075 --> 00:11:48,118
do not will the property away
to your sons or daughters.

196
00:11:48,631 --> 00:11:52,701
Make sure your daughters
get their legitimate share.

197
00:11:52,989 --> 00:11:55,377
(Applause)

198
00:11:58,497 --> 00:12:05,378
You know, it reminds me
of the story of Sudha Goel

199
00:12:05,479 --> 00:12:09,407
because daughters need
to have control of their property,

200
00:12:09,407 --> 00:12:10,981
they need to feel secure,

201
00:12:11,534 --> 00:12:14,698
and Sudha Goel had been given a dowry.

202
00:12:16,000 --> 00:12:21,478
One December night,
the neighbors heard her screaming:

203
00:12:21,798 --> 00:12:24,430
"Bachao! Bachao! Save me! Save me!"

204
00:12:24,430 --> 00:12:27,900
So they rushed and forced
their way into the flat

205
00:12:27,900 --> 00:12:30,903
and found her in flames.

206
00:12:33,135 --> 00:12:37,250
Her mother-in-law and her husband
were simply sitting there.

207
00:12:38,606 --> 00:12:42,606
She said, "These people have killed me.

208
00:12:42,876 --> 00:12:45,858
They have taken my gold and everything."

209
00:12:47,621 --> 00:12:53,148
There are hundreds of such cases
in India every year.

210
00:12:55,343 --> 00:12:56,589
How do we do it?

211
00:12:56,589 --> 00:12:59,222
How do we take steps to stop this?

212
00:13:01,222 --> 00:13:06,404
I think that I can
summarize it in four words.

213
00:13:07,786 --> 00:13:10,073
First, awareness.

214
00:13:10,715 --> 00:13:13,127
Second, assertion.

215
00:13:13,599 --> 00:13:15,865
Third, attitude change.

216
00:13:16,357 --> 00:13:18,876
And fourth, action.

217
00:13:20,255 --> 00:13:22,626
So, sisters,

218
00:13:22,626 --> 00:13:26,617
don't be blackmailed by -
emotionally blackmailed by your brothers.

219
00:13:27,147 --> 00:13:30,130
Don't take dowries;
don't take after dowries.

220
00:13:30,130 --> 00:13:31,956
Demand your inheritance.

221
00:13:32,636 --> 00:13:37,420
Brothers, husbands, and fathers,

222
00:13:37,879 --> 00:13:42,682
make sure that your daughter
gets her legitimate share.

223
00:13:43,581 --> 00:13:48,861
And make sure that she has
that confidence that is important for her.

224
00:13:48,861 --> 00:13:51,601
Do the legal thing, not the illegal.

225
00:13:52,773 --> 00:13:54,796
So when you look forward,

226
00:13:55,171 --> 00:13:57,982
make sure your daughters get
what they deserve.

227
00:13:58,449 --> 00:14:01,021
You should not let your daughters down,

228
00:14:02,206 --> 00:14:04,559
and they will not let you down.

229
00:14:05,773 --> 00:14:07,581
(Applause)

230
00:14:10,791 --> 00:14:12,914
So this is the mantra:

231
00:14:13,265 --> 00:14:15,585
Inheritance, not dowry.

232
00:14:16,061 --> 00:14:18,437
Inheritance, not dowry.

233
00:14:18,803 --> 00:14:24,483
Repeat it, act upon it,
and get others to act upon it as well.

234
00:14:28,640 --> 00:14:34,600
I'd like to end with an appeal
by a daughter to her parents.

235
00:14:35,745 --> 00:14:39,730
"Father, why do you
discriminate against me

236
00:14:39,730 --> 00:14:42,123
when I can be as good as my brother?

237
00:14:42,123 --> 00:14:46,573
Mother, nurture, nourish, and educate me,

238
00:14:46,573 --> 00:14:50,622
and you will see
that I will not be a burden

239
00:14:50,622 --> 00:14:53,652
but will control my own destiny.

240
00:14:54,001 --> 00:14:58,098
And you will have nothing to fear
when Brother is not there.

241
00:14:58,098 --> 00:15:01,448
I will look after both of you
in your old age.

242
00:15:01,448 --> 00:15:04,606
I ask only to be treated equally.

243
00:15:04,606 --> 00:15:06,532
Will you not dare?

244
00:15:06,532 --> 00:15:09,742
So that I have the freedom to choose
and the right to care

245
00:15:09,742 --> 00:15:13,867
and am no longer
the prisoner of my own gender,

246
00:15:13,867 --> 00:15:18,972
unable to resist or retaliate
against injustice.

247
00:15:21,075 --> 00:15:23,314
Oh Father, give me a chance.

248
00:15:23,314 --> 00:15:25,105
Just give me a chance.

249
00:15:25,253 --> 00:15:28,550
Oh Mother, break the bonds of tradition

250
00:15:28,550 --> 00:15:33,806
and let me into the sunlight
to dance, to dance, to dance."

251
00:15:33,806 --> 00:15:35,606
(Applause)