[Script Info]
Title: 
[Events]
Format: Layer, Start, End, Style, Name, MarginL, MarginR, MarginV, Effect, Text
Dialogue: 0,0:00:10.24,0:00:10.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[CAMERA SHUTTER CLICKS]
Dialogue: 0,0:00:21.74,0:00:23.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Elle Pérez, Artist]
Dialogue: 0,0:00:23.96,0:00:26.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I love that space where\Nsomething is a photograph
Dialogue: 0,0:00:26.68,0:00:28.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and not necessarily a word.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:28.16,0:00:32.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Or, you haven't put the words\Ntogether for what you're looking at yet.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:33.96,0:00:39.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Something can live there in photography\Nand not have to be definitive.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:42.16,0:00:47.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Elle Pérez Works Between the Frame]
Dialogue: 0,0:00:54.64,0:01:00.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,My cousin Alex is an\Nentertainment wrestler in the Bronx.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:00.01,0:01:02.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I sent him a message,\N"Can I come and photograph your show?"
Dialogue: 0,0:01:02.92,0:01:05.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And he was like,\N"Yeah, just don't tell our family."
Dialogue: 0,0:01:10.52,0:01:13.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,When I was photographing the wrestlers,
Dialogue: 0,0:01:13.23,0:01:17.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,what I was interested in was\Nthe choreography of the wrestling match,
Dialogue: 0,0:01:17.55,0:01:20.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because the thing about entertainment wrestling\Nis that everything is scripted
Dialogue: 0,0:01:20.62,0:01:22.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and everything is choreographed.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:23.24,0:01:25.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And there are ways that you\Nwould move your body
Dialogue: 0,0:01:25.06,0:01:28.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to look more authentically\Nlike you were in pain.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:28.00,0:01:30.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If you were hanging like\NJoe is hanging on the ropes,
Dialogue: 0,0:01:30.78,0:01:33.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,this extended moment\Nbecomes more sculptural.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:33.92,0:01:34.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[LAUGHS]
Dialogue: 0,0:01:39.02,0:01:41.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I don't think there's a way to
Dialogue: 0,0:01:41.44,0:01:44.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,involve a camera without\Nimmediately involving a kind of fiction.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:45.28,0:01:48.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,All of this is about an aspiration\Ntoward acting.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:53.30,0:01:55.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[SUBWAY NOISES]
Dialogue: 0,0:02:04.80,0:02:07.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In a way, my work has always\Nbeen made collaboratively.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:07.28,0:02:11.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Because of that, that's why\NI don't think of it as documentary.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:11.59,0:02:16.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Because my work had such a raw,\Nvisceral relationship to emotional authenticity,
Dialogue: 0,0:02:16.62,0:02:19.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,people often would recommend\Nthat I would go into documentary.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:19.37,0:02:21.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But I could never figure out\Nthe ethics of it.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:23.64,0:02:27.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I was yelled at by the editor of\NNational Geographic
Dialogue: 0,0:02:27.20,0:02:29.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for my photos looking misleading,
Dialogue: 0,0:02:29.75,0:02:31.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because they looked like\Ndocumentary images,
Dialogue: 0,0:02:31.67,0:02:34.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but they actually were made\Nby staging them.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:35.68,0:02:37.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It looks effortless.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:37.30,0:02:39.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They're still pretty set up.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:49.58,0:02:50.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[CAMERA SHUTTER CLICKS]
Dialogue: 0,0:02:59.26,0:03:01.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Definitely the geography of\Nwhere a lot of the pictures are made--
Dialogue: 0,0:03:01.83,0:03:03.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,whether it's in the Bronx or Puerto Rico--
Dialogue: 0,0:03:03.82,0:03:07.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it's really important, and\NI don't think about it too much at all.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:07.10,0:03:09.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think about them as being\Nmore related to people.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:11.24,0:03:14.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They're all made from really strong relationships.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:15.70,0:03:21.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But how do you show something\Nthat relates to a particular experience
Dialogue: 0,0:03:21.54,0:03:25.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,without showing the spectacle of it?
Dialogue: 0,0:03:27.26,0:03:28.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The photograph of the hand,
Dialogue: 0,0:03:28.58,0:03:31.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it has such a visceral, physical feeling
Dialogue: 0,0:03:31.00,0:03:33.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of what two bodies could be capable of.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:33.83,0:03:39.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You can use photography to depict\Nthings that you actually cannot picture.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:48.72,0:03:51.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It has so much to do with identity,\Nand it has so much to do with
Dialogue: 0,0:03:51.46,0:03:58.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,how surfaces have the ability\Nto contain the traces of an experience.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:16.62,0:04:20.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,A binder is a chest compression garment that,
Dialogue: 0,0:04:20.92,0:04:25.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,initially, it was designed for men who\Nhad excess breast tissue.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:25.98,0:04:31.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Then it got co-opted by\Nthe transmasculine community.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:32.06,0:04:34.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The photograph that I made of my binder
Dialogue: 0,0:04:34.91,0:04:39.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,was only possible after that object\Nhad been worn for, like, five years.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:39.96,0:04:42.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It had become frayed.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:42.06,0:04:44.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The sweat and pain of that garment,
Dialogue: 0,0:04:44.22,0:04:46.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,all of it is visible in the fabric itself--
Dialogue: 0,0:04:46.69,0:04:52.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and then in how it's photographed with\Nan extreme focus on precise details.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:53.99,0:04:57.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The pictures focus on something like a seam,
Dialogue: 0,0:04:57.45,0:04:59.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or on someone's tattoos,
Dialogue: 0,0:04:59.32,0:05:00.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or on someone's face.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:00.42,0:05:02.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Then when you see it at a scale,
Dialogue: 0,0:05:02.44,0:05:05.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you're able to have a certain\Nproximity to detail
Dialogue: 0,0:05:05.06,0:05:08.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that you can't have in just\Nyour day-to-day relationship.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:14.53,0:05:18.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,These giant wall collages that\NI would use to draw from--
Dialogue: 0,0:05:18.71,0:05:20.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,whether it was drawing for writing,
Dialogue: 0,0:05:20.73,0:05:23.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or drawing from text,\Nor text fragments--
Dialogue: 0,0:05:23.99,0:05:28.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,just looking at things and having\Nthem be reflected back at me
Dialogue: 0,0:05:28.59,0:05:30.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so that I can think about them.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:30.96,0:05:34.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Then things slowly make\Ntheir way into the work.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:44.16,0:05:48.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Form being related to queerness\Nbecause it's undefinable and unboundaried,
Dialogue: 0,0:05:48.48,0:05:53.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it has to have such a space of possibility\Nwithin it to even be possible at all.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:53.50,0:05:57.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Something like a photograph is then\Nlike a perfect container,
Dialogue: 0,0:05:57.34,0:06:01.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because it is not\Nactually ever definitive.