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Herald: As you all know, this year we didn't have
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any summer dream, but more of a summer nightmare and for the first time
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in 50 years of the federal republic of Gemany
journalists were impeached
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for "Landesverrat" (Treason of the nation).
It lies back now a few months
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and we want to use this opportunity now,
to reflect a bit about
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what actually happened, once recall the events
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and shine light on the back story, but also look at
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what happened since then, what the consequences are.
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And to do that, please give with me a warm welcome
to the founder
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and publisher of "Netzpolitik" and our favourite
"Landesverräter" (Nation traitor) Markus Beckedahl.
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applaus
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Herald: And...
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For all our international guests, if you want to listen to the talk in English
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that is totally possible. Please tone into our wonderful
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translation at 80 11. Thank you!
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Markus: Hello, good morning!
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laughingapplause
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But when you're clapping all the time, I will never finish with my 72 slides.
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So...
applause
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Andre can be here unfortunately, he has to lie in the sun,
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I mean in the real sun.
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applause
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On the camp, just after the case against us was dropped we have
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held a talk, so: The story about all of this investigations
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I will hold very briefly. I will more focus on
what the findings are,
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what we have learned, what would have to change in the laws to avoid
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such investigations in the future.
Who is still interested in the background story,
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as I said, the talks from the camp are online.
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Yes, I believe you can download them free of charge.
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The story started over a year earlier.
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Last year we celebrated the 10th anniversary
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and adequately for our 10th anniversary, we received
news, that the chancellery
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had threatened the members of the NSA-investigation commission in the Bundestag
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to press penal charges, because among others
in our blog documents had been posted
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which were distributed in the context of the
investigation commission.
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At that time the charges were not pursued.
There are rumours,
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that Merkel was against it. She was afraid,
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that that somehow was bad PR
to prosecute the press.
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We felt honoured and a bit motivated
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to just continue.
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In this February we published parts of the
state budge documents,
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which showed, that the "Verfassungsschutz"
(German secret service) was planning
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massive analysis of internet contents just like that.
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That was interesting, because two year after the start of the Snowden-Leaks
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the answer of the government was to increase
the budget
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and the authority of the secret services
to monitor the internet.
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We thought, that should better be discussed,
before that is just implemented that way.
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But a discussion was actually just possible,
if all the document were public,
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which were confidential to that point.
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To us, someone had leaked them. We had a bit space
on our servers,
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so we published them, sadly we did not get the
huge debate in civil society,
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we wanted. To put it in other word:
It just did not
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interest people that much.
But it is our philosophy
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documents we have not just to quote,
but also
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if possible, openly provided for all our readers.
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We are used to the Internet, we are used
to link to the sources.
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applaus
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and we are used, that others should also question our work.
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We do not believe, that we are
the experts for everything,
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and we believe also, that among our readers are many experts,
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who can help us, to gain more perspectives
on documents from all angles
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and for that we all need the originals.
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And therefore we upload them to the net,
of course on a case by case basis,
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if we do not endanger anyone by that.
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But, back to the start of this year:
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In this April we received another state budget plan,
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which we of course published too.
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Unfortunately this one did really interest none,
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'cause 9:05 am it was online,
9:15 the minister of justice informed,
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that he was going to reimplement the
"Vorratsdatenspeicherung" (Mass surveillance measures) now,
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so our issue just die on that spot.
We found it was a pity,
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'cause we really wanted to talk about:
What is the Verfassungsschutz doing there?
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Is this constitutional at all, what they are doing?
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Shouldn't we as society not decide first,
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if we approve the measures or not?
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And, shouldn't maybe the supreme court
rule first about it,
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if they are even allowed to do so or not?
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To put this all in context, what we published there:
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state budget, some say, that is somehow
comparable with
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simply just a cost draft.
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After the "Landesverrat" investigation
ZEIT ONLINE (news) has published another
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piece of the puzzle, namely internal
documents of the "Verfassungsschutz"
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about XKeyscore. We have published, so to say, the budget planes,
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which documented the implementation of this XKeyscore Software,
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and another piece of the puzzle came from
Kai Biermann and Yassin Musharbash,
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I think I'm constantly pronouncing their names wrong. Sorry.
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On the 4th of July we hard from a radio station,
that a internet service
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had published two articles in February and April,
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for what they were indicted by the president
of the Verfassungsschutz.
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It's no fun fact that, one day in advance
the Verfassungsschutz law
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with more competences for the Verfassungsschutz
had passed the parliament.
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Possibly there is a correlation, that this
story by
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such a Verfassungsschutz friendly "Deutschlandfunk"
journalist
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was placed one day after and not before.
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Probably the "Landesverrat" investigations, media coverage
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could have led to more people actually
having a look at the Verfassungsschutz law,
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but it did not happen this way.
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We were at first a bit surprised,
so we noticed first,
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that WE are this internet service apparently,
then we thought:
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Does this happen often,
that such a accusation is filed?
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We then called the union for journalists and so on,
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to ask about it. We thought they might know
more about this stuff. But they were like:
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"Well, no idea, happened last time in the 90s or something?"
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So we thought... hmmm... strange somehow.
So we called on Monday
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the Verfassungsschutz and the General Attorney,
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to ask about it. They did not want to tell us
anything obviously,
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and then we blogged about it and waited for it.
We knew according to
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this article in the Deutschlandfunk it had
to do with betraying official secrets.
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There is a ruling of the supreme court,
to phrase it that way, is would be bad
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for our sources, but we as individuals
could still get out of this.
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And then on the 30th of July, we received a
letter, that at least throw over our
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daily life in the editorial office a bit.
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The general attorney notified us, that
investigations concerning "Landesverrat"
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against Andre, against our source and me
were being conduced and
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it already started in May.
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So we thought: Well.
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Laughingapplause
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So we then blogged it.
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Then we looked up, what does "Landesverrat" actually mean anyway?
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Laughing
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Our lawyers said like:
"So, there is something curious going on!
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The law about it states: There must be the
intention of harming the federal republic."
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and we actually wanted a better federal
republic,
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I mean, we wanted a federal republic,
where the basic right we have
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were applied! That's the opposite of, what
Landesverrat (Treason against the nation) is!
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heavy applause
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And he thought: "Well, if the law is the way
it is. We will fight through this in the worst case."
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Then we informed ourselfs again:
How did "Landesverrat" actually come about?
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I mean, one only knew the kind of thing
from the Spiegel scandal,
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so from history books, it went even further.
Erich Kästner and so on,
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so a very explosive... well, symbolic
phrase!
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The short version was: Thursday we received
the letter, uploaded it and so on.
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Sunday all of the sudden we were in the
centre of a small state crisis.
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Tuesday the General Attorney resigns.
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The Monday after, everything was buried
very quickly.
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But: Now starts, what all did happened or
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how we evaluated the whole thing.
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To start with we had a lot of luck.
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So we were lucky, that they charged us for
"Landesverrat",
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so such a symbolic, which instantly
generates this connection to
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Franz Josef Strauß and the Spiegel Scandal
in the heads of many people.
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It hadn't been quite as practical, if they
didn't charge us with §94 StGB "Landesverrat"
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but with §95 "Offenbarung von Staatsgeheimnissen"
(revealing of official secrets),
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so let alone the Hashtag
#offenbarungvonstaatsgeheimnissen would've
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been to long.
laughing
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We were even lucky, that the INFORMED us
via mail.
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As far as we can reconstruct it, it looks
a lot like,
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that the General Attorney ordered an
external report by a professor close to the BND,
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who should affirm the view of the
Verfassungsschutz,
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that we published official secrets,
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and if it had turned out that way...,
and this BND-professor told the
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General Attorney, that he unfortunately
hadn't finished yet and
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had to go on vacation.
But if he had finished,
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he would probably come to that conclusion
and then through that
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we only would have known from a police
raid,
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that there is something going on in this
direction.
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Therefore we took the message from that
just to be prepare for that.
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We didn't think then, that we would in
Germany, in a constitutional democracy,
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have to be afraid of raid at home and
the office
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due to our work.
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Now we know that, now we are prepared,
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if it someday comes to that.
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Then we were lucky:
David vs Goliath, I mean,
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Star Wars was just released. Mr. Maaßen
(president of the Verfassungsschutz) would
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be the perfect Emperor.
laughing
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We are the rebels, so besides David-
Goliath
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Star Wars is also quite fitting.
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In any case, this huge symbolic,
We were just lucky.
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We had such a stress test before, 6 years ago.
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That time we published internal documents
of the "Deutsche Bahn" (German railway).
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We could test a bit the mechanics of the
new public
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in such a David-Goliath situation,
Streisand-effect and so on,
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and now we could play the same thing in
big.
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And most importantly the luck we had was,
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that this was happening in the "Sommerloch",
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So, two weeks before we would have been
forgotten about due to the Greek crisis,
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two weeks due later the refugees situation,
but exactly at that time
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when we received this letter,
just nothing else happened at all.
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Totally great, Thanks!
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laughingapplause
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So but first off we had to prove that
we are good citizens,
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at the same time, which was the funniest
thing,
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the government or the "Deutsche Bank" as
standard initiative of the BDI
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together with the President send us also
such a certificate,
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'cause we were honoured within the "Deutschland-
Land der Ideen"(Germany land of ideas) campaign.
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We didn't know at that point what to do
with this honouring,
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should we even make it public?
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Then we thought: How useful, that shows
this weird picture
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and shows instantly somehow how
schizophrenic this is:
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Parts of the government pay us tribute,
while the other part, well does the same,
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but doesn't intended it that way.
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laughing
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Well, in any case something happens, that
we could have known,
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but we didn't: The Admin was on vacation
and the blog was gone.
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We then needed a mirror page, where
at least the information
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could still be found.
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Then something happen, which I never
experienced before:
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I couldn't use Twitter any more,
for example, 'cause there were to many
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informations with our Hashtag and so on,
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my Browser shut down all the time,
I had to shut down for
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a few hours, but there was a huge crowd
declaring solidarity,
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incountable Supertweets, eg. here from
@NeinQuarterly and also many other things,
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Links to our donation site, because we
had obviously problems, if we had to fight
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this, then we would have needed a lot of
money,
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for the lawyers alone and we were complete
underfunded at that time.
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In any case, then we had this funny
situation, that
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all of the sudden even our IBAN-number
became a trending topic.
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Our bank was proud to.
laughing
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And at the same time to illustrate the
summer void of news, that was one of
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several days "tagesschau.de", where you got
the impression that there was nothing else;
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Probably nothing else was happening at
that time, I haven't hear of anything,
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but here you also don't see anything.
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Something else: Very nice was also the
solidarity of the ZDF heute-jornal.
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They had written netzpolitik.org instead of
heute.de
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laughingbig applause
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Well, and the server was down again.
laughing
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Now we have a new one.
laughing
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So, in case that happens again, we could
use a bit more capacity.
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Well, so we had to present ourselfs also
somehow
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as even better citizens.
laughingapplause
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And then it was okay, I mean the most of
the press had our back.
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We had hoped so, but we did not expect
this huge solidarity at all.
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That was really great for sure, to know
they have your back
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and more than anything it's great, when
all the things
225
00:14:47,880 --> 00:14:50,260
you normally watch yourself are reporting
about you,
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00:14:50,260 --> 00:14:54,269
such as extra3, heute-show and so on.
(comedy news shows) The only sad thing was,
227
00:14:54,269 --> 00:14:57,509
that we were so deep in the middle of
summer, that they did not had any TV-episodes,
228
00:14:57,509 --> 00:14:59,659
but they had to do it online.
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00:14:59,659 --> 00:15:04,360
Well, and then there was a little uprising
of the CDU-members of parliament, who did
230
00:15:04,360 --> 00:15:06,740
not understand why so many people showed
their solidarity to us.
231
00:15:06,740 --> 00:15:10,869
Jens Koeppen on the upper left is by the
way the the head of the commission for
232
00:15:10,869 --> 00:15:13,630
digital agenda in the Bundestag. (Parliament)
233
00:15:13,630 --> 00:15:17,579
That also took just one day. The important
people in the CDU,
234
00:15:17,579 --> 00:15:20,900
had their colleges under control again
right the next day,
235
00:15:20,900 --> 00:15:24,399
and were like: "That's a game we can't win!"
236
00:15:24,399 --> 00:15:29,489
It was also very funny, Mr. Bosbach
declared immediately 1,5 days later:
237
00:15:29,489 --> 00:15:31,990
"However inexplicable the initiation of
the investigation
238
00:15:31,990 --> 00:15:35,770
against the blog "netzpolitik.org" was for
actual, legal reasons..."
239
00:15:35,770 --> 00:15:38,840
Then he was of course attacking the social
democrates.
240
00:15:38,840 --> 00:15:43,750
But this was at least for us the signal:
Okay, the government is on the retreat.
241
00:15:43,750 --> 00:15:47,220
Not everyone did get the hint:
242
00:15:47,220 --> 00:15:51,150
Hans-Peter Uhl thought still, that now
ISIS could draw from
243
00:15:51,150 --> 00:15:56,939
budget plans conclusions how the
Verfassungsschutz was organised.
244
00:15:56,939 --> 00:16:01,509
Well, Hans-Peter Uhl has also some other
problems, I think.
245
00:16:01,509 --> 00:16:04,950
laughing
246
00:16:04,950 --> 00:16:10,240
In any case, this came in quite handy for
us. It was summer. We were a few from
247
00:16:10,240 --> 00:16:13,000
our team and a few friends, who wanted
absolutely to rally.
248
00:16:13,000 --> 00:16:15,380
We thought first, well, okay a rally there
will be coming the few well known people.
249
00:16:15,380 --> 00:16:18,910
Anyway we did a demonstration.
2500 people were there!
250
00:16:18,910 --> 00:16:21,149
laughing
Also very helpful to
251
00:16:21,149 --> 00:16:25,100
to create the right images.
252
00:16:25,100 --> 00:16:28,269
But we actually thought: after two days
it is all over. Heiko Maas the minister
253
00:16:28,269 --> 00:16:30,850
of justice had to cut his vacation short
for the first time,
254
00:16:30,850 --> 00:16:33,670
went to the press, like: "Everything
under control, keep calm
255
00:16:33,670 --> 00:16:36,729
and carry on!"
Some interview request were rejected.
256
00:16:36,729 --> 00:16:42,340
We partied and, well, on the next day we
were actually in a state scandal,
257
00:16:42,340 --> 00:16:45,530
which took almost international proportions.
258
00:16:45,530 --> 00:16:48,899
To understand it must be said, that
Germany was always
259
00:16:48,899 --> 00:16:52,460
pointing fingers on the international
stage,
260
00:16:52,460 --> 00:16:55,330
when ever there was a oppressive regime,
261
00:16:55,330 --> 00:16:58,199
where journalists and bloggers were
suppressed somehow.
262
00:16:58,199 --> 00:17:01,029
Well and now there was such a case in
Germany,
263
00:17:01,029 --> 00:17:04,429
where journalist were threatened with
investigations,
264
00:17:04,429 --> 00:17:10,260
where usually immediately the foreign
minister would intervene.
265
00:17:10,260 --> 00:17:13,559
That was somehow funny even for us.
We appeared everywhere:
266
00:17:13,559 --> 00:17:18,109
Here from Nepal to Greek, so in all the
continents,
267
00:17:18,109 --> 00:17:22,420
almost from all counties we received
articles.
268
00:17:22,420 --> 00:17:24,780
We didn't get them all processed, so we
were called
269
00:17:24,780 --> 00:17:29,240
every minute for some question from the
most bizarre media
270
00:17:29,240 --> 00:17:32,940
an the planet. We were very proud to be in
the "Titanic" (Satire magazine),
271
00:17:32,940 --> 00:17:35,360
with this page of "Landesverrateslust"
272
00:17:35,360 --> 00:17:40,040
laughing
(parody of gardening magazine "Landlust")
273
00:17:40,040 --> 00:17:45,840
Once "Titanic". Well, the FAZ (frankfurt common newspaper) had a small campaign against us.
274
00:17:45,840 --> 00:17:47,840
We thought that was cute, because we
thought, we can't lose anything,
275
00:17:47,840 --> 00:17:50,900
when a news paper that is 10 times as big
276
00:17:50,900 --> 00:17:54,420
in one unearthly bad article article after
the other tries to explain,
277
00:17:54,420 --> 00:17:56,960
that we actually are the bad guys and not
the good ones
278
00:17:56,960 --> 00:18:03,260
and then use words like: "The democracy
didn't mean anything to
279
00:18:03,260 --> 00:18:07,500
netzpolitik.org or other swarm-like
collective intelligent beings anyway,
280
00:18:07,500 --> 00:18:11,490
look at child pornography, or
telecommunications data retention,
or copyright."
281
00:18:11,490 --> 00:18:19,600
Or the head of FAZ-Feuilleton about some
animal, that was in our office,
282
00:18:19,600 --> 00:18:23,090
because it was a gift from Anna from
Japan. The "mascot" got half a page
283
00:18:23,090 --> 00:18:26,290
of scribbling, while we just thought:
"what mascot???"
284
00:18:26,290 --> 00:18:29,810
We hadn't even noticed it standing there.
285
00:18:29,810 --> 00:18:33,170
Well, in any case that was a very funny
thing, but at the same time also
286
00:18:33,170 --> 00:18:37,440
somehow completely bizarre. So the FAZ-
politics editors had almost
287
00:18:37,440 --> 00:18:42,900
always exactly the opposite opinion
288
00:18:42,900 --> 00:18:46,530
and pointed at us and said: "That are the
activists, we are the journalists!"
289
00:18:46,530 --> 00:18:50,530
And tried to denounce therefore our press
right privilege.
290
00:18:50,530 --> 00:18:53,500
On the other hand we had thought this
through the last years.
291
00:18:53,500 --> 00:18:56,650
We had the official confirmation of the
government, the "Bundespressekonferenz"
292
00:18:56,650 --> 00:18:58,950
and Parliament, that we were journalists,
because they had given us
293
00:18:58,950 --> 00:19:01,570
IDs as journalists.
294
00:19:01,570 --> 00:19:05,500
Then there was some small subplot:
295
00:19:05,500 --> 00:19:09,460
We had thrown out a team of Russia Today,
296
00:19:09,460 --> 00:19:12,110
due to the fact that they were the only
ones, that did not notify us in advance
297
00:19:12,110 --> 00:19:16,510
and all of the sudden entered the office,
started to film and we had the principle
298
00:19:16,510 --> 00:19:20,740
-that wasn't even against Russia-
but we would not talk to government
299
00:19:20,740 --> 00:19:25,730
controlled media trying to exploit us to
somehow relativise the freedom of the
300
00:19:25,730 --> 00:19:28,000
press in the own country.
applause
301
00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:32,350
So we said we would not talk to media of
governments applause
302
00:19:32,350 --> 00:19:38,610
of countries that suppress journalists,
that threaten journalists with death.
303
00:19:38,610 --> 00:19:40,940
And Russia is one of those.
We twittered that.
304
00:19:40,940 --> 00:19:43,930
And then we had suddenly all conspiracy
theorists
305
00:19:43,930 --> 00:19:47,600
who were...
I have never received so many death threats
306
00:19:47,600 --> 00:19:50,910
before, because somehow I was responsibly
for the Ukraine conflict,
307
00:19:50,910 --> 00:19:53,310
because I was 13 years ago in the Green
party youth. laughing
308
00:19:53,310 --> 00:19:56,900
So I didn't really get it, but political
education was
309
00:19:56,900 --> 00:19:59,770
reduced drastically in the last years,
I think
310
00:19:59,770 --> 00:20:02,270
we need there a bit more money from the
state budget.
311
00:20:02,270 --> 00:20:09,270
applause
But let's look at the still unsolved puzzle:
312
00:20:09,270 --> 00:20:12,940
We still wonder: why?
laughing
313
00:20:12,940 --> 00:20:17,450
So, why did the General Attorney start the
investigations in the first place,
314
00:20:17,450 --> 00:20:22,060
if everyone could have seen, that
there is no will
315
00:20:22,060 --> 00:20:25,350
to harm the republic at all?!
316
00:20:25,350 --> 00:20:28,390
So we can only imagine, that there must
have been some political pressure
317
00:20:28,390 --> 00:20:31,660
from the Verfassungsschutz,
from the ministry of internal affairs,
318
00:20:31,660 --> 00:20:36,380
maybe from the chancellery.
319
00:20:36,380 --> 00:20:41,510
But the question is also, why would anyone
want to be responsible for that?
320
00:20:41,510 --> 00:20:48,810
And also a question was, that later become
obvious:
321
00:20:48,810 --> 00:20:53,060
When we heard the news in the
"Deutschlandfunk", that because of
322
00:20:53,060 --> 00:20:57,400
revealing official secrets they started
investigations against our source,
323
00:20:57,400 --> 00:21:03,320
we read the "Cicero"-ruling of 2007 very
carefully.
324
00:21:03,320 --> 00:21:10,110
2005 there are a house search at "Cicero",
this monthly magazine.
325
00:21:10,110 --> 00:21:13,840
It was about revealing of official secrets,
some secrets which were disclosed
326
00:21:13,840 --> 00:21:18,160
to journalists and they, federal police
and Schily, tried back then to
327
00:21:18,160 --> 00:21:25,130
find hint on the source using a raid in
in the editorial office.
328
00:21:25,130 --> 00:21:29,380
The supreme court ruled 2007:
"The revealing of official secrets are no
329
00:21:29,380 --> 00:21:31,330
legitimate reason for a raid."
330
00:21:31,330 --> 00:21:34,070
So they already started our investigation
on a higher level,
331
00:21:34,070 --> 00:21:36,600
just to test if they could get away with it.
332
00:21:36,600 --> 00:21:40,810
If the supreme court has already forbidden
the other thing,
333
00:21:40,810 --> 00:21:44,580
let's just try "Landesverrat" or something.
334
00:21:44,580 --> 00:21:48,170
We would have liked for the case to be
continued
335
00:21:48,170 --> 00:21:51,650
to get a ruling, but sadly the
investigations were discontinued
336
00:21:51,650 --> 00:21:55,700
very fast, which took the opportunity
337
00:21:55,700 --> 00:21:57,990
to just clarify this by the courts.
338
00:21:57,990 --> 00:22:02,570
Especially to clarify that we had the right
to do that at all times.
339
00:22:02,570 --> 00:22:07,040
Then, Hans-Georg Maaßen, our president
of the Verfassungsschutz,
340
00:22:07,040 --> 00:22:12,240
the emperor and so on, had already
declared that on the 4th of May,
341
00:22:12,240 --> 00:22:19,660
on the symposium of the Verfassungsschutz,
where by the way the Deutschlandfunk journalist
342
00:22:19,660 --> 00:22:26,360
was moderating, which later uncovered
the first hint.
343
00:22:26,360 --> 00:22:30,650
He was saying back then, that our work or
the leaking with the help of journalists
344
00:22:30,650 --> 00:22:37,090
would damage the work of the secret
services a great deal.
345
00:22:37,090 --> 00:22:41,070
Furthermore he was talking about some
secret information being printed by
346
00:22:41,070 --> 00:22:44,840
the media. Actually, we did never have a
printing press, we just
347
00:22:44,840 --> 00:22:46,850
put it out in the Internet, but okay...
348
00:22:46,850 --> 00:22:52,150
We did talk this as a reason to release a
new sticker series,
349
00:22:52,150 --> 00:22:59,150
you can get some later, at front left.
applause
350
00:23:00,520 --> 00:23:05,350
It was very interesting to, how Maaßen
tried to make excuses
351
00:23:05,350 --> 00:23:08,610
all the time, that he was innocent, that
he just did his duty and
352
00:23:08,610 --> 00:23:10,480
that someone had to do this.
353
00:23:10,480 --> 00:23:14,020
We now know, that in the last years there
were just
354
00:23:14,020 --> 00:23:19,900
just three cases were filed, concerning
well, revealing official secrets,
355
00:23:19,900 --> 00:23:24,250
or generally the leaking of documents
to journalists from the
356
00:23:24,250 --> 00:23:29,030
secret sevices. Three cases and two of
them were us.
357
00:23:29,030 --> 00:23:31,160
applause
The BND did do something like this yet.
358
00:23:31,160 --> 00:23:35,920
But he was saying: "That is completely
normal!!" Tried to suggest, that that was
359
00:23:35,920 --> 00:23:39,570
completely usual procedure and that he
by the way had nothing to do
360
00:23:39,570 --> 00:23:43,480
with it, because the charges were pressed
against unknown.
361
00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:49,060
At some point we got the document,
362
00:23:49,060 --> 00:23:52,970
it looked like this.
Which is like right in your face.
363
00:23:52,970 --> 00:23:54,990
This charge against unknown,
364
00:23:54,990 --> 00:23:57,300
even featuring our names.
365
00:23:57,300 --> 00:23:59,080
More than anything the Verfassungsschutz
had managed
366
00:23:59,080 --> 00:24:02,030
in two files to write my name two times
wrong.
367
00:24:02,030 --> 00:24:03,040
laughing
368
00:24:03,040 --> 00:24:06,910
I mean luckily the is not a single person
in Germany
369
00:24:06,910 --> 00:24:10,770
that would have such a name, but the
problem was,
370
00:24:10,770 --> 00:24:14,390
what would it mean, if your were suspected
due to
371
00:24:14,390 --> 00:24:16,600
a wrong name?
372
00:24:16,600 --> 00:24:18,440
Okay, I have to hurry a bit!
373
00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:21,540
Our lawyers later only got censored
documents, better to say...
374
00:24:21,540 --> 00:24:24,530
-hu? why did it proceed atomatically?-
375
00:24:24,530 --> 00:24:31,450
... just censored files, we think that all
the time they kept,
376
00:24:31,450 --> 00:24:33,050
two versions parallel.
377
00:24:33,050 --> 00:24:36,330
There are some notices of conversations
between General Attorney and
378
00:24:36,330 --> 00:24:38,910
Verfassungsschutz, which were held by
phone or email,
379
00:24:38,910 --> 00:24:41,130
but do not appear there.
380
00:24:41,130 --> 00:24:44,300
Our lawyers found that to be very curious,
we would have liked to publish
381
00:24:44,300 --> 00:24:47,310
files, but we are not allowed to see them,
cause they are ranged as more secret
382
00:24:47,310 --> 00:24:50,590
than the documents, we published,
383
00:24:50,590 --> 00:24:54,240
'cause the Verfassungsschutz....
applause
384
00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:59,500
The Verfassungsschutz had to explain or
had notified the General Attorney in the files
385
00:24:59,500 --> 00:25:02,720
why we had revealed relevant secrets and
386
00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:05,460
well, the assessment of the
Verfassungsschutz is more secret than
387
00:25:05,460 --> 00:25:08,660
the documents we published. So incredibly
bizzare!
388
00:25:08,660 --> 00:25:17,000
At some point we noticed that, oh,
investigations of "Landesverrat" mean,
389
00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:23,130
they can legally tap us actually since 2,
3 months.
390
00:25:23,130 --> 00:25:26,840
That was possible, but for a few moments
it felt for us like a problem...
391
00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:30,790
-well, hu, what just happened? -
392
00:25:30,790 --> 00:25:34,290
...like a problem, because we thought,
okay now we could have a real
393
00:25:34,290 --> 00:25:36,320
problem, if they bugged everything at our
place.
394
00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:38,070
They told us afterwards, that the BKA
(police) just had done
395
00:25:38,070 --> 00:25:43,370
low level investigations,
well, hu, you can trust them more or less
396
00:25:43,370 --> 00:25:47,250
at least I think. The problem is,
how believable is the statement of
397
00:25:47,250 --> 00:25:49,190
the Government, that the Verfassungsschutz
398
00:25:49,190 --> 00:25:51,170
did not watch us? I mean who should've
controlled that?
399
00:25:51,170 --> 00:25:55,830
If you want know more about the risks ask
(mandatory drug cover statement)
the victims of the NSU.
400
00:25:55,830 --> 00:25:58,170
(Neonazi underground killer group)
aplause
401
00:25:58,170 --> 00:26:03,810
Then we had the problem, that many parts
of the government didn't...
402
00:26:03,810 --> 00:26:07,600
have not told the truth in the media.
403
00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:12,260
Here is Emily Haber, secretary of security
in the ministry of internal affairs,
404
00:26:12,260 --> 00:26:15,140
who said: "Well, yes, the president of the
Verfassungsschutz has
405
00:26:15,140 --> 00:26:17,410
stopped at some point" and that was it.
406
00:26:17,410 --> 00:26:19,390
Else we had never known.
407
00:26:19,390 --> 00:26:21,930
Afterwards it became clear, that half of
the ministry for internal affairs
408
00:26:21,930 --> 00:26:25,000
was informed about the cases and
investigations and so on.
409
00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:28,000
(Minister) Thomas de Maizière of course
didn't noticed anything, Quote:
410
00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:31,620
"The necessary criminal investigation of
the culprit or culprits only
411
00:26:31,620 --> 00:26:34,420
gain any political importance due to the
media coverage and discussion,
412
00:26:34,420 --> 00:26:38,080
which then made it necessary to
personally inform the minister."
413
00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:41,910
This is how you describe the system of
Thomas de Maizère.
414
00:26:41,910 --> 00:26:46,590
Fun Fact: The husband of Emily Haber is a
diplomat, who was spied on
415
00:26:46,590 --> 00:26:52,360
in the context of the BND-Selectors
scandal.
416
00:26:52,360 --> 00:26:56,310
Well, then there was a huge
"Bundespressekonferenz" about this
(press conference with deputies of the government)
417
00:26:56,310 --> 00:26:59,820
on Monday, after we published it,
over one hour with a lot of
418
00:26:59,820 --> 00:27:04,230
questions. Here the Speaker for the BMI
was like: "Well I talked to everyone,
419
00:27:04,230 --> 00:27:07,830
who had a relevant position, and nobody
knew anything" right?
420
00:27:07,830 --> 00:27:13,110
That is a most brilliant rhetoric, in other
words: obfuscation tactic.
421
00:27:13,110 --> 00:27:18,030
Later it became clear: At least after
the 21th April the government knew
422
00:27:18,030 --> 00:27:21,420
the plans and the investigations and
we assume, that
423
00:27:21,420 --> 00:27:23,700
they at that point they discussed
strategies.
424
00:27:23,700 --> 00:27:26,850
But who took part, we don't know, because
the chancellery does not
425
00:27:26,850 --> 00:27:30,320
take records of such important meetings.
426
00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:33,340
But then the Green party questioned the
ministers of the government
427
00:27:33,340 --> 00:27:36,850
one by one, whoms deputies had taken
part and
428
00:27:36,850 --> 00:27:39,150
the different ministries had to answer,
429
00:27:39,150 --> 00:27:42,170
that there deputies had been there, so it
was possible to tell,
430
00:27:42,170 --> 00:27:47,220
who had been there, but none wanted to
take responsibility.
431
00:27:47,220 --> 00:27:52,660
In addition the Green party asked, if it
was normal to talk about such
432
00:27:52,660 --> 00:27:56,520
procedures with foreseeable large,
political meaning
433
00:27:56,520 --> 00:27:58,610
without reports or taking any records,
434
00:27:58,610 --> 00:28:03,310
and the government was like:
Well, yes that's normal, no panic!
435
00:28:03,310 --> 00:28:06,210
The ministry of justice knew already two
months in advance
436
00:28:06,210 --> 00:28:09,560
including the minister, who declared after the
media coverage then,
437
00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:12,460
that this had to be ended now very fast.
438
00:28:12,460 --> 00:28:14,230
We just wonder why didn't he do that
before?
439
00:28:14,230 --> 00:28:15,600
Well, I have to hurry!
440
00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:19,700
Let's come to...
441
00:28:21,910 --> 00:28:24,630
-hu? Never happened before!
442
00:28:24,630 --> 00:28:27,780
Need a new Laptop!-
443
00:28:27,780 --> 00:28:29,510
What do we learn?
Our requests:
444
00:28:29,510 --> 00:28:33,770
First off, we need a new definition of
official secrets.
445
00:28:33,770 --> 00:28:37,240
At the moment the authorities decide for
themself, what is a secret, and we think
446
00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:41,060
that is wrong! We need a new definition
of "Staatsgeheimnis",
447
00:28:41,060 --> 00:28:44,670
so that developments of history in the
public interest are not
448
00:28:44,670 --> 00:28:48,790
secrets and are not covered by either
§94 "Landesverrat",
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00:28:48,790 --> 00:28:52,420
or §95 "Offenbarung von Staatsgeheimissen"
(revealing of official secrets)
450
00:28:52,420 --> 00:28:55,100
applause
That would help journalists,
451
00:28:55,100 --> 00:28:59,290
to be threatened by this sword of Damocles
(A danger constantly hovering over you).
452
00:28:59,290 --> 00:29:04,480
We need a protection of whistle blowers
act, that deserved that name!
453
00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:08,160
Germany is a developing country, when it
comes to that.
454
00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:15,820
That can not be!
yeayea, I'll hurry!
455
00:29:15,820 --> 00:29:20,750
Besides we were lucky, Andre and I are
both professional journalists in our
456
00:29:20,750 --> 00:29:23,070
editorial office, but there are others,
who write
457
00:29:23,070 --> 00:29:27,570
for us voluntarily. If they had published
this story,
458
00:29:27,570 --> 00:29:30,340
they wouldn't have had the same rights
we did, for example
459
00:29:30,340 --> 00:29:33,680
they had not right to remain silent, or
better a court
460
00:29:33,680 --> 00:29:37,130
had to clarify that, if they have, because
461
00:29:37,130 --> 00:29:41,830
The legal definition for freedom of the
press talks about profession.
462
00:29:41,830 --> 00:29:46,800
We say: Freedom of the press has to apply
for everyone, who submits to journalistic
463
00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:50,080
standards and duties and work as a
journalist and not just for those,
464
00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:54,730
who do this for money!
huge applause
465
00:29:54,730 --> 00:30:01,710
Also to insure the protection of the
sources,
466
00:30:01,710 --> 00:30:05,510
the Telecommunications data retention
has to go! There are many other reasons
467
00:30:05,510 --> 00:30:07,650
for that, but I say it now just from a
journalistic perspective.
468
00:30:07,650 --> 00:30:10,220
applause
And most importantly the new law against
469
00:30:10,220 --> 00:30:13,440
"Datenhelerei" has to go! And we will
support a lawsuit against it!
470
00:30:13,440 --> 00:30:15,830
We need to quit mass surveillance
471
00:30:15,830 --> 00:30:17,830
and to control the secret services!
472
00:30:17,830 --> 00:30:20,320
So the real Scandal, besides
"Landesverrat" is,
473
00:30:20,320 --> 00:30:23,090
that two years after the Snowden leaks
474
00:30:23,090 --> 00:30:26,900
this is seen as test for future cases,
and the surveillance is increasing
475
00:30:26,900 --> 00:30:30,420
massively supported by the government!
What we wanted to say:
476
00:30:30,420 --> 00:30:35,490
Never give up! We will continue, despite
mass surveillance and so on.
477
00:30:35,490 --> 00:30:38,090
We were a little disappointed that the
campaign did not last so long,
478
00:30:38,090 --> 00:30:40,950
we had still a lot of ideas, what we
could do.
479
00:30:40,950 --> 00:30:45,780
We would be glad to receive more documents
and as a Thanks for the investigations
480
00:30:45,780 --> 00:30:50,450
we leaked the BND-strategies for
extending the net surveillance.
481
00:30:50,450 --> 00:30:57,450
You can read all on our page.
applause
482
00:30:58,010 --> 00:31:02,990
And so, Thanks to all of you
for your support!
483
00:31:02,990 --> 00:31:06,200
It helped a great deal to have so many
supporters
484
00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:09,490
in the civil society, in the media,
in our communities
485
00:31:09,490 --> 00:31:13,340
else we would not have survived this.
486
00:31:13,340 --> 00:31:16,690
So, if you are in favour of our work,
you can support us:
487
00:31:16,690 --> 00:31:21,290
netzpolitik.org/spenden or we have
left over some
488
00:31:21,290 --> 00:31:29,140
very cool T-shirts and Hoodies and bags.
There are somewhere...
489
00:31:29,140 --> 00:31:32,170
Where are they? A right! Here in front.
There are stickers, too,
490
00:31:32,170 --> 00:31:35,620
featuring Hans-Georg Maaßen, else...
laughing
491
00:31:35,620 --> 00:31:39,720
Thank you very much! Do more "Landesverrat"
and have fun on the congress!
492
00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:46,720
applause
493
00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:53,400
music
494
00:31:53,400 --> 00:32:01,000
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