0:00:08.960,0:00:11.530
Herald: As you all know, this year we didn't have

0:00:11.530,0:00:15.750
any summer dream, but more of a summer nightmare and for the first time

0:00:15.750,0:00:19.719
in 50 years of the federal republic of Gemany[br]journalists were impeached

0:00:19.719,0:00:24.060
for "Landesverrat" (Treason of the nation).[br]It lies back now a few months

0:00:24.060,0:00:27.349
and we want to use this opportunity now,[br]to reflect a bit about

0:00:27.349,0:00:31.739
what actually happened, once recall the events

0:00:31.739,0:00:35.980
and shine light on the back story, but also look at

0:00:35.980,0:00:38.930
what happened since then, what the consequences are.

0:00:38.930,0:00:44.300
And to do that, please give with me a warm welcome [br]to the founder

0:00:44.300,0:00:48.730
and publisher of "Netzpolitik" and our favourite[br]"Landesverräter" (Nation traitor) Markus Beckedahl.

0:00:48.730,0:00:55.730
<i>applaus</i>

0:01:01.870,0:01:05.250
Herald: And...

0:01:05.250,0:01:09.190
For all our international guests, if you want to listen to the talk in English

0:01:09.190,0:01:12.170
that is totally possible. Please tone into our wonderful

0:01:12.170,0:01:16.109
translation at 80 11. Thank you!

0:01:16.689,0:01:19.710
Markus: Hello, good morning!

0:01:19.710,0:01:26.710
<i>laughing</i><i>applause</i>

0:01:27.890,0:01:32.359
But when you're clapping all the time, I will never finish with my 72 slides.

0:01:32.359,0:01:39.360
So... [br]<i>applause</i>

0:01:41.040,0:01:43.909
Andre can be here unfortunately, he has to lie in the sun,

0:01:43.909,0:01:45.780
I mean in the real sun.

0:01:45.780,0:01:48.780
<i>applause</i>

0:01:48.780,0:01:55.139
On the camp, just after the case against us was dropped we have[br]

0:01:55.139,0:02:00.719
held a talk, so: The story about all of this investigations

0:02:00.719,0:02:04.319
I will hold very briefly. I will more focus on [br]what the findings are,

0:02:04.319,0:02:08.408
what we have learned, what would have to change in the laws to avoid

0:02:08.408,0:02:12.349
such investigations in the future.[br]Who is still interested in the background story,

0:02:12.349,0:02:16.109
as I said, the talks from the camp are online.

0:02:16.109,0:02:18.870
Yes, I believe you can download them free of charge.

0:02:18.870,0:02:21.560
The story started over a year earlier.

0:02:21.560,0:02:24.490
Last year we celebrated the 10th anniversary

0:02:24.490,0:02:29.210
and adequately for our 10th anniversary, we received [br]news, that the chancellery

0:02:29.210,0:02:32.959
had threatened the members of the NSA-investigation commission in the Bundestag

0:02:32.959,0:02:39.220
to press penal charges, because among others[br]in our blog documents had been posted

0:02:39.220,0:02:46.859
which were distributed in the context of the[br]investigation commission.

0:02:46.859,0:02:51.670
At that time the charges were not pursued.[br]There are rumours,

0:02:51.670,0:02:54.469
that Merkel was against it. She was afraid,

0:02:54.469,0:02:57.909
that that somehow was bad PR [br]to prosecute the press.

0:02:57.909,0:03:01.340
We felt honoured and a bit motivated

0:03:01.340,0:03:05.049
to just continue.

0:03:05.049,0:03:09.859
In this February we published parts of the[br]state budge documents,

0:03:09.859,0:03:13.409
which showed, that the "Verfassungsschutz"[br](German secret service) was planning

0:03:13.409,0:03:18.930
massive analysis of internet contents just like that.

0:03:18.930,0:03:24.219
That was interesting, because two year after the start of the Snowden-Leaks

0:03:24.219,0:03:29.069
the answer of the government was to increase [br]the budget

0:03:29.069,0:03:32.199
and the authority of the secret services [br]to monitor the internet.

0:03:32.199,0:03:35.880
We thought, that should better be discussed,[br]before that is just implemented that way.

0:03:35.880,0:03:40.799
But a discussion was actually just possible,[br]if all the document were public,

0:03:40.799,0:03:44.380
which were confidential to that point.

0:03:44.380,0:03:46.680
To us, someone had leaked them. We had a bit space [br]on our servers,

0:03:46.680,0:03:50.690
so we published them, sadly we did not get the[br]huge debate in civil society,

0:03:50.690,0:03:53.330
we wanted. To put it in other word: [br]It just did not

0:03:53.330,0:03:56.979
interest people that much.[br]But it is our philosophy

0:03:56.979,0:04:01.540
documents we have not just to quote,[br]but also

0:04:01.540,0:04:06.449
if possible, openly provided for all our readers.

0:04:06.449,0:04:10.079
We are used to the Internet, we are used[br]to link to the sources.

0:04:10.079,0:04:14.179
<i>applaus</i>

0:04:14.179,0:04:19.350
and we are used, that others should also question our work.

0:04:19.350,0:04:24.619
We do not believe, that we are[br]the experts for everything,

0:04:24.619,0:04:27.700
and we believe also, that among our readers are many experts,

0:04:27.700,0:04:31.699
who can help us, to gain more perspectives[br]on documents from all angles

0:04:31.699,0:04:34.210
and for that we all need the originals.

0:04:34.210,0:04:39.880
And therefore we upload them to the net,[br]of course on a case by case basis,

0:04:39.880,0:04:43.370
if we do not endanger anyone by that.

0:04:43.370,0:04:45.850
But, back to the start of this year:

0:04:45.850,0:04:48.100
In this April we received another state budget plan,

0:04:48.100,0:04:49.470
which we of course published too.

0:04:49.470,0:04:52.160
Unfortunately this one did really interest none,

0:04:52.160,0:04:57.650
'cause 9:05 am it was online, [br]9:15 the minister of justice informed,

0:04:57.650,0:05:00.560
that he was going to reimplement the[br]"Vorratsdatenspeicherung" (Mass surveillance measures) now,

0:05:00.560,0:05:04.299
so our issue just die on that spot.[br]We found it was a pity,

0:05:04.299,0:05:08.220
'cause we really wanted to talk about: [br]What is the Verfassungsschutz doing there?

0:05:08.220,0:05:10.500
Is this constitutional at all, what they are doing?

0:05:10.500,0:05:14.089
Shouldn't we as society not decide first,

0:05:14.089,0:05:15.699
if we approve the measures or not?

0:05:15.699,0:05:18.789
And, shouldn't maybe the supreme court[br]rule first about it,

0:05:18.789,0:05:21.780
if they are even allowed to do so or not?

0:05:21.780,0:05:24.330
To put this all in context, what we published there:

0:05:24.330,0:05:28.240
state budget, some say, that is somehow [br]comparable with

0:05:28.240,0:05:31.430
simply just a cost draft.

0:05:31.430,0:05:35.440
After the "Landesverrat" investigation[br]ZEIT ONLINE (news) has published another[br]

0:05:35.440,0:05:40.500
piece of the puzzle, namely internal[br]documents of the "Verfassungsschutz"

0:05:40.500,0:05:46.000
about XKeyscore. We have published, so to say, the budget planes,

0:05:46.000,0:05:50.549
which documented the implementation of this XKeyscore Software,

0:05:50.549,0:05:55.409
and another piece of the puzzle came from [br]Kai Biermann and Yassin Musharbash,

0:05:55.409,0:06:00.169
I think I'm constantly pronouncing their names wrong. Sorry.

0:06:00.169,0:06:08.910
On the 4th of July we hard from a radio station, [br]that a internet service

0:06:08.910,0:06:14.349
had published two articles in February and April,

0:06:14.349,0:06:19.139
for what they were indicted by the president[br]of the Verfassungsschutz.

0:06:19.139,0:06:24.070
It's no fun fact that, one day in advance[br]the Verfassungsschutz law

0:06:24.070,0:06:27.270
with more competences for the Verfassungsschutz[br]had passed the parliament.

0:06:27.270,0:06:29.740
Possibly there is a correlation, that this[br]story by

0:06:29.740,0:06:34.090
such a Verfassungsschutz friendly "Deutschlandfunk"[br]journalist

0:06:34.090,0:06:36.750
was placed one day after and not before.

0:06:36.750,0:06:40.510
Probably the "Landesverrat" investigations, media coverage

0:06:40.510,0:06:44.880
could have led to more people actually[br]having a look at the Verfassungsschutz law,

0:06:44.880,0:06:46.729
but it did not happen this way.

0:06:46.729,0:06:49.120
We were at first a bit surprised, [br]so we noticed first,

0:06:49.120,0:06:53.040
that WE are this internet service apparently,[br]then we thought:

0:06:53.040,0:06:56.400
Does this happen often, [br]that such a accusation is filed?

0:06:56.400,0:06:59.539
We then called the union for journalists and so on,

0:06:59.539,0:07:02.370
to ask about it. We thought they might know[br]more about this stuff. But they were like:

0:07:02.370,0:07:05.740
"Well, no idea, happened last time in the 90s or something?"

0:07:05.740,0:07:08.989
So we thought... hmmm... strange somehow.[br]So we called on Monday

0:07:08.989,0:07:12.420
the Verfassungsschutz and the General Attorney,

0:07:12.420,0:07:14.950
to ask about it. They did not want to tell us[br]anything obviously,

0:07:14.950,0:07:20.769
and then we blogged about it and waited for it.[br]We knew according to

0:07:20.769,0:07:24.489
this article in the Deutschlandfunk it had [br]to do with betraying official secrets. [br]

0:07:24.489,0:07:28.819
There is a ruling of the supreme court,[br]to phrase it that way, is would be bad[br]

0:07:28.819,0:07:33.560
for our sources, but we as individuals [br]could still get out of this.

0:07:33.560,0:07:41.400
And then on the 30th of July, we received a [br]letter, that at least throw over our

0:07:41.400,0:07:44.190
daily life in the editorial office a bit.

0:07:44.190,0:07:48.639
The general attorney notified us, that[br]investigations concerning "Landesverrat"

0:07:48.639,0:07:53.580
against Andre, against our source and me[br]were being conduced and

0:07:53.580,0:07:56.259
it already started in May.

0:07:56.259,0:07:57.590
So we thought: Well.

0:07:57.590,0:08:04.589
<i>Laughing</i><i>applause</i>

0:08:07.149,0:08:08.850
So we then blogged it.

0:08:08.850,0:08:11.179
Then we looked up, what does "Landesverrat" actually mean anyway?

0:08:11.179,0:08:15.659
<i>Laughing</i>

0:08:15.659,0:08:18.829
Our lawyers said like: [br]"So, there is something curious going on!

0:08:18.829,0:08:23.639
The law about it states: There must be the [br]intention of harming the federal republic."

0:08:23.639,0:08:27.799
and we actually wanted a better federal[br]republic,

0:08:27.799,0:08:31.019
I mean, we wanted a federal republic, [br]where the basic right we have

0:08:31.019,0:08:36.659
were applied! That's the opposite of, what [br]Landesverrat (Treason against the nation) is!

0:08:36.659,0:08:39.240
<i>heavy applause</i>

0:08:39.240,0:08:44.250
And he thought: "Well, if the law is the way[br]it is. We will fight through this in the worst case."

0:08:44.250,0:08:47.229
Then we informed ourselfs again:[br]How did "Landesverrat" actually come about?

0:08:47.229,0:08:49.290
I mean, one only knew the kind of thing[br]from the Spiegel scandal,

0:08:49.290,0:08:52.870
so from history books, it went even further.[br]Erich Kästner and so on,

0:08:52.870,0:08:58.570
so a very explosive... well, symbolic[br]phrase!

0:08:58.570,0:09:02.930
The short version was: Thursday we received [br]the letter, uploaded it and so on.

0:09:02.930,0:09:05.760
Sunday all of the sudden we were in the [br]centre of a small state crisis.

0:09:05.760,0:09:08.400
Tuesday the General Attorney resigns.

0:09:08.400,0:09:11.690
The Monday after, everything was buried[br]very quickly.

0:09:11.690,0:09:16.260
But: Now starts, what all did happened or

0:09:16.260,0:09:18.370
how we evaluated the whole thing.

0:09:18.370,0:09:22.010
To start with we had a lot of luck.

0:09:22.010,0:09:25.500
So we were lucky, that they charged us for[br]"Landesverrat",

0:09:25.500,0:09:31.170
so such a symbolic, which instantly [br]generates this connection to

0:09:31.170,0:09:36.760
Franz Josef Strauß and the Spiegel Scandal[br]in the heads of many people.

0:09:36.760,0:09:41.160
It hadn't been quite as practical, if they [br]didn't charge us with §94 StGB "Landesverrat"

0:09:41.160,0:09:45.420
but with §95 "Offenbarung von Staatsgeheimnissen"[br](revealing of official secrets),

0:09:45.420,0:09:48.440
so let alone the Hashtag[br]#offenbarungvonstaatsgeheimnissen would've[br]

0:09:48.440,0:09:51.549
been to long.[br]<i>laughing</i>

0:09:51.549,0:09:57.090
We were even lucky, that the INFORMED us [br]via mail.

0:09:57.090,0:10:01.220
As far as we can reconstruct it, it looks [br]a lot like,

0:10:01.220,0:10:05.420
that the General Attorney ordered an [br]external report by a professor close to the BND,

0:10:05.420,0:10:09.510
who should affirm the view of the [br]Verfassungsschutz,

0:10:09.510,0:10:12.620
that we published official secrets,

0:10:12.620,0:10:15.479
and if it had turned out that way..., [br]and this BND-professor told the

0:10:15.479,0:10:18.480
General Attorney, that he unfortunately[br]hadn't finished yet and

0:10:18.480,0:10:20.969
had to go on vacation.[br]But if he had finished,

0:10:20.969,0:10:23.980
he would probably come to that conclusion[br]and then through that

0:10:23.980,0:10:26.080
we only would have known from a police[br]raid,

0:10:26.080,0:10:28.670
that there is something going on in this[br]direction.

0:10:28.670,0:10:33.720
Therefore we took the message from that[br]just to be prepare for that.

0:10:33.720,0:10:38.160
We didn't think then, that we would in[br]Germany, in a constitutional democracy,

0:10:38.160,0:10:42.800
have to be afraid of raid at home and[br]the office

0:10:42.800,0:10:46.510
due to our work.

0:10:46.510,0:10:48.809
Now we know that, now we are prepared,

0:10:48.809,0:10:50.640
if it someday comes to that.

0:10:50.640,0:10:55.450
Then we were lucky: [br]David vs Goliath, I mean,

0:10:55.450,0:10:59.510
Star Wars was just released. Mr. Maaßen[br](president of the Verfassungsschutz) would

0:10:59.510,0:11:00.890
be the perfect Emperor.[br]<i>laughing</i>

0:11:00.890,0:11:03.260
We are the rebels, so besides David-[br]Goliath

0:11:03.260,0:11:05.660
Star Wars is also quite fitting.

0:11:05.660,0:11:09.089
In any case, this huge symbolic, [br]We were just lucky.

0:11:09.089,0:11:12.049
We had such a stress test before, 6 years ago.

0:11:12.049,0:11:16.350
That time we published internal documents[br]of the "Deutsche Bahn" (German railway).

0:11:16.350,0:11:19.799
We could test a bit the mechanics of the [br]new public

0:11:19.799,0:11:25.090
in such a David-Goliath situation,[br]Streisand-effect and so on,

0:11:25.090,0:11:29.519
and now we could play the same thing in[br]big.

0:11:29.519,0:11:33.089
And most importantly the luck we had was,

0:11:33.089,0:11:35.190
that this was happening in the "Sommerloch",

0:11:35.190,0:11:38.480
So, two weeks before we would have been [br]forgotten about due to the Greek crisis,

0:11:38.480,0:11:41.809
two weeks due later the refugees situation,[br]but exactly at that time

0:11:41.809,0:11:45.679
when we received this letter, [br]just nothing else happened at all.

0:11:45.679,0:11:48.919
Totally great, Thanks!

0:11:48.919,0:11:53.949
<i>laughing</i><i>applause</i>

0:11:53.949,0:11:57.790
So but first off we had to prove that[br]we are good citizens,

0:11:57.790,0:12:00.999
at the same time, which was the funniest [br]thing,

0:12:00.999,0:12:07.029
the government or the "Deutsche Bank" as[br]standard initiative of the BDI

0:12:07.029,0:12:10.039
together with the President send us also [br]such a certificate,

0:12:10.039,0:12:12.920
'cause we were honoured within the "Deutschland-[br]Land der Ideen"(Germany land of ideas) campaign.

0:12:12.920,0:12:16.330
We didn't know at that point what to do [br]with this honouring,

0:12:16.330,0:12:17.540
should we even make it public?

0:12:17.540,0:12:20.910
Then we thought: How useful, that shows[br]this weird picture

0:12:20.910,0:12:24.560
and shows instantly somehow how[br]schizophrenic this is:

0:12:24.560,0:12:28.519
Parts of the government pay us tribute,[br]while the other part, well does the same,

0:12:28.519,0:12:30.100
but doesn't intended it that way.

0:12:30.100,0:12:32.840
<i>laughing</i>

0:12:32.840,0:12:39.650
Well, in any case something happens, that[br]we could have known,

0:12:39.650,0:12:44.489
but we didn't: The Admin was on vacation[br]and the blog was gone.

0:12:44.489,0:12:47.520
We then needed a mirror page, where [br]at least the information

0:12:47.520,0:12:50.350
could still be found.

0:12:50.350,0:12:52.779
Then something happen, which I never[br]experienced before:

0:12:52.779,0:12:56.339
I couldn't use Twitter any more, [br]for example, 'cause there were to many

0:12:56.339,0:12:59.660
informations with our Hashtag and so on,

0:12:59.660,0:13:01.889
my Browser shut down all the time,[br]I had to shut down for

0:13:01.889,0:13:05.589
a few hours, but there was a huge crowd[br]declaring solidarity,

0:13:05.589,0:13:11.370
incountable Supertweets, eg. here from [br]@NeinQuarterly and also many other things,

0:13:11.370,0:13:16.230
Links to our donation site, because we [br]had obviously problems, if we had to fight

0:13:16.230,0:13:19.199
this, then we would have needed a lot of [br]money,

0:13:19.199,0:13:24.790
for the lawyers alone and we were complete [br]underfunded at that time.

0:13:24.790,0:13:28.780
In any case, then we had this funny [br]situation, that

0:13:28.780,0:13:31.910
all of the sudden even our IBAN-number[br]became a trending topic.

0:13:31.910,0:13:35.460
Our bank was proud to. [br]<i>laughing</i>

0:13:35.460,0:13:40.170
And at the same time to illustrate the[br]summer void of news, that was one of

0:13:40.170,0:13:43.520
several days "tagesschau.de", where you got [br]the impression that there was nothing else;

0:13:43.520,0:13:45.920
Probably nothing else was happening at [br]that time, I haven't hear of anything,

0:13:45.920,0:13:50.349
but here you also don't see anything.

0:13:50.349,0:13:54.509
Something else: Very nice was also the [br]solidarity of the ZDF heute-jornal.

0:13:54.509,0:13:59.560
They had written netzpolitik.org instead of[br]heute.de

0:13:59.560,0:14:06.559
<i>laughing</i><i>big applause</i>

0:14:07.319,0:14:12.229
Well, and the server was down again.[br]<i>laughing</i>

0:14:12.229,0:14:14.630
Now we have a new one.[br]<i>laughing</i>

0:14:14.630,0:14:18.730
So, in case that happens again, we could[br]use a bit more capacity.

0:14:18.730,0:14:20.670
Well, so we had to present ourselfs also[br]somehow

0:14:20.670,0:14:27.240
as even better citizens. [br]<i>laughing</i><i>applause</i>

0:14:27.240,0:14:33.900
And then it was okay, I mean the most of [br]the press had our back. [br]

0:14:33.900,0:14:41.810
[br]We had hoped so, but we did not expect[br]this huge solidarity at all.

0:14:41.810,0:14:44.639
That was really great for sure, to know [br]they have your back

0:14:44.639,0:14:47.880
and more than anything it's great, when [br]all the things

0:14:47.880,0:14:50.260
you normally watch yourself are reporting [br]about you,

0:14:50.260,0:14:54.269
such as extra3, heute-show and so on.[br](comedy news shows) The only sad thing was,

0:14:54.269,0:14:57.509
that we were so deep in the middle of[br]summer, that they did not had any TV-episodes,

0:14:57.509,0:14:59.659
but they had to do it online.

0:14:59.659,0:15:04.360
Well, and then there was a little uprising [br]of the CDU-members of parliament, who did

0:15:04.360,0:15:06.740
not understand why so many people showed[br]their solidarity to us.

0:15:06.740,0:15:10.869
Jens Koeppen on the upper left is by the [br]way the the head of the commission for

0:15:10.869,0:15:13.630
digital agenda in the Bundestag. (Parliament)

0:15:13.630,0:15:17.579
That also took just one day. The important [br]people in the CDU,

0:15:17.579,0:15:20.900
had their colleges under control again [br]right the next day,

0:15:20.900,0:15:24.399
and were like: "That's a game we can't win!"

0:15:24.399,0:15:29.489
It was also very funny, Mr. Bosbach[br]declared immediately 1,5 days later:

0:15:29.489,0:15:31.990
"However inexplicable the initiation of [br]the investigation[br]

0:15:31.990,0:15:35.770
against the blog "netzpolitik.org" was for [br]actual, legal reasons..."

0:15:35.770,0:15:38.840
Then he was of course attacking the social [br]democrates.

0:15:38.840,0:15:43.750
But this was at least for us the signal: [br]Okay, the government is on the retreat.

0:15:43.750,0:15:47.220
Not everyone did get the hint:

0:15:47.220,0:15:51.150
Hans-Peter Uhl thought still, that now[br]ISIS could draw from

0:15:51.150,0:15:56.939
budget plans conclusions how the [br]Verfassungsschutz was organised.

0:15:56.939,0:16:01.509
Well, Hans-Peter Uhl has also some other [br]problems, I think.

0:16:01.509,0:16:04.950
<i>laughing</i>

0:16:04.950,0:16:10.240
In any case, this came in quite handy for[br]us. It was summer. We were a few from

0:16:10.240,0:16:13.000
our team and a few friends, who wanted [br]absolutely to rally.

0:16:13.000,0:16:15.380
We thought first, well, okay a rally there [br]will be coming the few well known people.

0:16:15.380,0:16:18.910
Anyway we did a demonstration. [br]2500 people were there!

0:16:18.910,0:16:21.149
<i>laughing</i>[br]Also very helpful to[br]

0:16:21.149,0:16:25.100
to create the right images.

0:16:25.100,0:16:28.269
But we actually thought: after two days[br]it is all over. Heiko Maas the minister

0:16:28.269,0:16:30.850
of justice had to cut his vacation short[br]for the first time,

0:16:30.850,0:16:33.670
went to the press, like: "Everything [br]under control, keep calm

0:16:33.670,0:16:36.729
and carry on!"[br]Some interview request were rejected.

0:16:36.729,0:16:42.340
We partied and, well, on the next day we [br]were actually in a state scandal,

0:16:42.340,0:16:45.530
which took almost international proportions.

0:16:45.530,0:16:48.899
To understand it must be said, that [br]Germany was always

0:16:48.899,0:16:52.460
pointing fingers on the international [br]stage,

0:16:52.460,0:16:55.330
when ever there was a oppressive regime, [br]

0:16:55.330,0:16:58.199
where journalists and bloggers were [br]suppressed somehow.

0:16:58.199,0:17:01.029
Well and now there was such a case in [br]Germany,

0:17:01.029,0:17:04.429
where journalist were threatened with [br]investigations,

0:17:04.429,0:17:10.260
where usually immediately the foreign [br]minister would intervene.

0:17:10.260,0:17:13.559
That was somehow funny even for us. [br]We appeared everywhere:

0:17:13.559,0:17:18.109
Here from Nepal to Greek, so in all the[br]continents,

0:17:18.109,0:17:22.420
almost from all counties we received [br]articles.

0:17:22.420,0:17:24.780
We didn't get them all processed, so we [br]were called

0:17:24.780,0:17:29.240
every minute for some question from the [br]most bizarre media

0:17:29.240,0:17:32.940
an the planet. We were very proud to be in [br]the "Titanic" (Satire magazine),

0:17:32.940,0:17:35.360
with this page of "Landesverrateslust"[br]

0:17:35.360,0:17:40.040
<i>laughing</i>[br](parody of gardening magazine "Landlust")

0:17:40.040,0:17:45.840
Once "Titanic". Well, the FAZ (frankfurt common newspaper) had a small campaign against us.

0:17:45.840,0:17:47.840
We thought that was cute, because we [br]thought, we can't lose anything,

0:17:47.840,0:17:50.900
when a news paper that is 10 times as big [br]

0:17:50.900,0:17:54.420
in one unearthly bad article article after [br]the other tries to explain,

0:17:54.420,0:17:56.960
that we actually are the bad guys and not [br]the good ones

0:17:56.960,0:18:03.260
and then use words like: "The democracy [br]didn't mean anything to

0:18:03.260,0:18:07.500
netzpolitik.org or other swarm-like [br]collective intelligent beings anyway,

0:18:07.500,0:18:11.490
look at child pornography, or [br]telecommunications data retention, [br]or copyright."

0:18:11.490,0:18:19.600
Or the head of FAZ-Feuilleton about some [br]animal, that was in our office,

0:18:19.600,0:18:23.090
because it was a gift from Anna from [br]Japan. The "mascot" got half a page

0:18:23.090,0:18:26.290
of scribbling, while we just thought: [br]"what mascot???"

0:18:26.290,0:18:29.810
We hadn't even noticed it standing there.

0:18:29.810,0:18:33.170
Well, in any case that was a very funny [br]thing, but at the same time also

0:18:33.170,0:18:37.440
somehow completely bizarre. So the FAZ-[br]politics editors had almost

0:18:37.440,0:18:42.900
always exactly the opposite opinion

0:18:42.900,0:18:46.530
and pointed at us and said: "That are the [br]activists, we are the journalists!"

0:18:46.530,0:18:50.530
And tried to denounce therefore our press[br]right privilege.

0:18:50.530,0:18:53.500
On the other hand we had thought this [br]through the last years.

0:18:53.500,0:18:56.650
We had the official confirmation of the [br]government, the "Bundespressekonferenz"

0:18:56.650,0:18:58.950
and Parliament, that we were journalists,[br]because they had given us

0:18:58.950,0:19:01.570
IDs as journalists.

0:19:01.570,0:19:05.500
Then there was some small subplot:

0:19:05.500,0:19:09.460
We had thrown out a team of Russia Today,

0:19:09.460,0:19:12.110
due to the fact that they were the only [br]ones, that did not notify us in advance

0:19:12.110,0:19:16.510
and all of the sudden entered the office,[br]started to film and we had the principle

0:19:16.510,0:19:20.740
-that wasn't even against Russia- [br]but we would not talk to government

0:19:20.740,0:19:25.730
controlled media trying to exploit us to [br]somehow relativise the freedom of the

0:19:25.730,0:19:28.000
press in the own country.[br]<i>applause</i>

0:19:28.000,0:19:32.350
So we said we would not talk to media of[br]governments <i>applause</i>

0:19:32.350,0:19:38.610
of countries that suppress journalists, [br]that threaten journalists with death.

0:19:38.610,0:19:40.940
And Russia is one of those. [br]We twittered that.

0:19:40.940,0:19:43.930
And then we had suddenly all conspiracy [br]theorists

0:19:43.930,0:19:47.600
who were... [br]I have never received so many death threats

0:19:47.600,0:19:50.910
before, because somehow I was responsibly [br]for the Ukraine conflict,

0:19:50.910,0:19:53.310
because I was 13 years ago in the Green [br]party youth. <i>laughing</i>

0:19:53.310,0:19:56.900
So I didn't really get it, but political[br]education was

0:19:56.900,0:19:59.770
reduced drastically in the last years, [br]I think

0:19:59.770,0:20:02.270
we need there a bit more money from the[br]state budget.

0:20:02.270,0:20:09.270
<i>applause</i>[br]But let's look at the still unsolved puzzle:

0:20:09.270,0:20:12.940
We still wonder: why?[br]<i>laughing</i>

0:20:12.940,0:20:17.450
So, why did the General Attorney start the [br]investigations in the first place,

0:20:17.450,0:20:22.060
if everyone could have seen, that [br]there is no will

0:20:22.060,0:20:25.350
to harm the republic at all?!

0:20:25.350,0:20:28.390
So we can only imagine, that there must [br]have been some political pressure

0:20:28.390,0:20:31.660
from the Verfassungsschutz, [br]from the ministry of internal affairs,

0:20:31.660,0:20:36.380
maybe from the chancellery.

0:20:36.380,0:20:41.510
But the question is also, why would anyone [br]want to be responsible for that?

0:20:41.510,0:20:48.810
And also a question was, that later become [br]obvious:

0:20:48.810,0:20:53.060
When we heard the news in the [br]"Deutschlandfunk", that because of [br]

0:20:53.060,0:20:57.400
revealing official secrets they started [br]investigations against our source,

0:20:57.400,0:21:03.320
we read the "Cicero"-ruling of 2007 very [br]carefully.

0:21:03.320,0:21:10.110
2005 there are a house search at "Cicero", [br]this monthly magazine.

0:21:10.110,0:21:13.840
It was about revealing of official secrets, [br]some secrets which were disclosed

0:21:13.840,0:21:18.160
to journalists and they, federal police [br]and Schily, tried back then to

0:21:18.160,0:21:25.130
find hint on the source using a raid in [br]in the editorial office.

0:21:25.130,0:21:29.380
The supreme court ruled 2007: [br]"The revealing of official secrets are no

0:21:29.380,0:21:31.330
legitimate reason for a raid."

0:21:31.330,0:21:34.070
So they already started our investigation [br]on a higher level,

0:21:34.070,0:21:36.600
just to test if they could get away with it.

0:21:36.600,0:21:40.810
If the supreme court has already forbidden [br]the other thing,

0:21:40.810,0:21:44.580
let's just try "Landesverrat" or something.

0:21:44.580,0:21:48.170
We would have liked for the case to be[br]continued

0:21:48.170,0:21:51.650
to get a ruling, but sadly the [br]investigations were discontinued

0:21:51.650,0:21:55.700
very fast, which took the opportunity

0:21:55.700,0:21:57.990
to just clarify this by the courts.

0:21:57.990,0:22:02.570
Especially to clarify that we had the right[br]to do that at all times.

0:22:02.570,0:22:07.040
Then, Hans-Georg Maaßen, our president [br]of the Verfassungsschutz,

0:22:07.040,0:22:12.240
the emperor and so on, had already [br]declared that on the 4th of May,

0:22:12.240,0:22:19.660
on the symposium of the Verfassungsschutz, [br]where by the way the Deutschlandfunk journalist

0:22:19.660,0:22:26.360
was moderating, which later uncovered [br]the first hint.

0:22:26.360,0:22:30.650
He was saying back then, that our work or [br]the leaking with the help of journalists

0:22:30.650,0:22:37.090
would damage the work of the secret [br]services a great deal.

0:22:37.090,0:22:41.070
Furthermore he was talking about some[br]secret information being printed by

0:22:41.070,0:22:44.840
the media. Actually, we did never have a [br]printing press, we just

0:22:44.840,0:22:46.850
put it out in the Internet, but okay...

0:22:46.850,0:22:52.150
We did talk this as a reason to release a [br]new sticker series,

0:22:52.150,0:22:59.150
you can get some later, at front left.[br]<i>applause</i>

0:23:00.520,0:23:05.350
It was very interesting to, how Maaßen[br]tried to make excuses

0:23:05.350,0:23:08.610
all the time, that he was innocent, that [br]he just did his duty and

0:23:08.610,0:23:10.480
that someone had to do this.

0:23:10.480,0:23:14.020
We now know, that in the last years there [br]were just

0:23:14.020,0:23:19.900
just three cases were filed, concerning [br]well, revealing official secrets,

0:23:19.900,0:23:24.250
or generally the leaking of documents[br]to journalists from the

0:23:24.250,0:23:29.030
secret sevices. Three cases and two of [br]them were us.

0:23:29.030,0:23:31.160
<i>applause</i>[br]The BND did do something like this yet.

0:23:31.160,0:23:35.920
But he was saying: "That is completely [br]normal!!" Tried to suggest, that that was

0:23:35.920,0:23:39.570
completely usual procedure and that he [br]by the way had nothing to do

0:23:39.570,0:23:43.480
with it, because the charges were pressed [br]against unknown.

0:23:43.480,0:23:49.060
At some point we got the document,

0:23:49.060,0:23:52.970
it looked like this. [br]Which is like right in your face.[br]

0:23:52.970,0:23:54.990
This charge against unknown,

0:23:54.990,0:23:57.300
even featuring our names.

0:23:57.300,0:23:59.080
More than anything the Verfassungsschutz [br]had managed

0:23:59.080,0:24:02.030
in two files to write my name two times [br]wrong.

0:24:02.030,0:24:03.040
<i>laughing</i>

0:24:03.040,0:24:06.910
I mean luckily the is not a single person [br]in Germany

0:24:06.910,0:24:10.770
that would have such a name, but the [br]problem was,

0:24:10.770,0:24:14.390
what would it mean, if your were suspected [br]due to

0:24:14.390,0:24:16.600
a wrong name?

0:24:16.600,0:24:18.440
Okay, I have to hurry a bit!

0:24:18.440,0:24:21.540
Our lawyers later only got censored [br]documents, better to say...

0:24:21.540,0:24:24.530
-hu? why did it proceed atomatically?-

0:24:24.530,0:24:31.450
... just censored files, we think that all [br]the time they kept,

0:24:31.450,0:24:33.050
two versions parallel.

0:24:33.050,0:24:36.330
There are some notices of conversations[br]between General Attorney and

0:24:36.330,0:24:38.910
Verfassungsschutz, which were held by [br]phone or email,

0:24:38.910,0:24:41.130
but do not appear there.

0:24:41.130,0:24:44.300
Our lawyers found that to be very curious, [br]we would have liked to publish

0:24:44.300,0:24:47.310
files, but we are not allowed to see them, [br]cause they are ranged as more secret

0:24:47.310,0:24:50.590
than the documents, we published,

0:24:50.590,0:24:54.240
'cause the Verfassungsschutz....[br]<i>applause</i>

0:24:54.240,0:24:59.500
The Verfassungsschutz had to explain or [br]had notified the General Attorney in the files

0:24:59.500,0:25:02.720
why we had revealed relevant secrets and

0:25:02.720,0:25:05.460
well, the assessment of the [br]Verfassungsschutz is more secret than [br]

0:25:05.460,0:25:08.660
the documents we published. So incredibly [br]bizzare!

0:25:08.660,0:25:17.000
At some point we noticed that, oh, [br]investigations of "Landesverrat" mean,

0:25:17.000,0:25:23.130
they can legally tap us actually since 2, [br]3 months.

0:25:23.130,0:25:26.840
That was possible, but for a few moments [br]it felt for us like a problem...

0:25:26.840,0:25:30.790
-well, hu, what just happened? -

0:25:30.790,0:25:34.290
...like a problem, because we thought, [br]okay now we could have a real

0:25:34.290,0:25:36.320
problem, if they bugged everything at our [br]place.

0:25:36.320,0:25:38.070
They told us afterwards, that the BKA [br](police) just had done

0:25:38.070,0:25:43.370
low level investigations,[br]well, hu, you can trust them more or less

0:25:43.370,0:25:47.250
at least I think. The problem is, [br]how believable is the statement of

0:25:47.250,0:25:49.190
the Government, that the Verfassungsschutz

0:25:49.190,0:25:51.170
did not watch us? I mean who should've [br]controlled that?

0:25:51.170,0:25:55.830
If you want know more about the risks ask [br](mandatory drug cover statement)[br]the victims of the NSU.

0:25:55.830,0:25:58.170
(Neonazi underground killer group)[br]<i>aplause</i>

0:25:58.170,0:26:03.810
Then we had the problem, that many parts [br]of the government didn't...

0:26:03.810,0:26:07.600
have not told the truth in the media.

0:26:07.600,0:26:12.260
Here is Emily Haber, secretary of security [br]in the ministry of internal affairs,

0:26:12.260,0:26:15.140
who said: "Well, yes, the president of the [br]Verfassungsschutz has

0:26:15.140,0:26:17.410
stopped at some point" and that was it.

0:26:17.410,0:26:19.390
Else we had never known.

0:26:19.390,0:26:21.930
Afterwards it became clear, that half of [br]the ministry for internal affairs

0:26:21.930,0:26:25.000
was informed about the cases and [br]investigations and so on.

0:26:25.000,0:26:28.000
(Minister) Thomas de Maizière of course [br]didn't noticed anything, Quote:

0:26:28.000,0:26:31.620
"The necessary criminal investigation of [br]the culprit or culprits only

0:26:31.620,0:26:34.420
gain any political importance due to the [br]media coverage and discussion,

0:26:34.420,0:26:38.080
which then made it necessary to [br]personally inform the minister."

0:26:38.080,0:26:41.910
This is how you describe the system of [br]Thomas de Maizère.

0:26:41.910,0:26:46.590
Fun Fact: The husband of Emily Haber is a [br]diplomat, who was spied on

0:26:46.590,0:26:52.360
in the context of the BND-Selectors [br]scandal.

0:26:52.360,0:26:56.310
Well, then there was a huge [br]"Bundespressekonferenz" about this [br](press conference with deputies of the government)

0:26:56.310,0:26:59.820
on Monday, after we published it, [br]over one hour with a lot of

0:26:59.820,0:27:04.230
questions. Here the Speaker for the BMI [br]was like: "Well I talked to everyone,

0:27:04.230,0:27:07.830
who had a relevant position, and nobody [br]knew anything" right?

0:27:07.830,0:27:13.110
That is a most brilliant rhetoric, in other [br]words: obfuscation tactic.

0:27:13.110,0:27:18.030
Later it became clear: At least after [br]the 21th April the government knew

0:27:18.030,0:27:21.420
the plans and the investigations and[br]we assume, that

0:27:21.420,0:27:23.700
they at that point they discussed [br]strategies.

0:27:23.700,0:27:26.850
But who took part, we don't know, because [br]the chancellery does not

0:27:26.850,0:27:30.320
take records of such important meetings.

0:27:30.320,0:27:33.340
But then the Green party questioned the [br]ministers of the government

0:27:33.340,0:27:36.850
one by one, whoms deputies had taken [br]part and

0:27:36.850,0:27:39.150
the different ministries had to answer,

0:27:39.150,0:27:42.170
that there deputies had been there, so it [br]was possible to tell,

0:27:42.170,0:27:47.220
who had been there, but none wanted to [br]take responsibility.

0:27:47.220,0:27:52.660
In addition the Green party asked, if it [br]was normal to talk about such

0:27:52.660,0:27:56.520
procedures with foreseeable large, [br]political meaning

0:27:56.520,0:27:58.610
without reports or taking any records,

0:27:58.610,0:28:03.310
and the government was like: [br]Well, yes that's normal, no panic!

0:28:03.310,0:28:06.210
The ministry of justice knew already two [br]months in advance

0:28:06.210,0:28:09.560
including the minister, who declared after the [br]media coverage then,

0:28:09.560,0:28:12.460
that this had to be ended now very fast.

0:28:12.460,0:28:14.230
We just wonder why didn't he do that [br]before?

0:28:14.230,0:28:15.600
Well, I have to hurry!

0:28:15.600,0:28:19.700
Let's come to...

0:28:21.910,0:28:24.630
-hu? Never happened before!

0:28:24.630,0:28:27.780
Need a new Laptop!-

0:28:27.780,0:28:29.510
What do we learn?[br]Our requests:

0:28:29.510,0:28:33.770
First off, we need a new definition of [br]official secrets.

0:28:33.770,0:28:37.240
At the moment the authorities decide for [br]themself, what is a secret, and we think

0:28:37.240,0:28:41.060
that is wrong! We need a new definition [br]of "Staatsgeheimnis",

0:28:41.060,0:28:44.670
so that developments of history in the [br]public interest are not

0:28:44.670,0:28:48.790
secrets and are not covered by either[br]§94 "Landesverrat",

0:28:48.790,0:28:52.420
or §95 "Offenbarung von Staatsgeheimissen"[br](revealing of official secrets)

0:28:52.420,0:28:55.100
<i>applause</i>[br]That would help journalists,

0:28:55.100,0:28:59.290
to be threatened by this sword of Damocles[br](A danger constantly hovering over you).

0:28:59.290,0:29:04.480
We need a protection of whistle blowers [br]act, that deserved that name!

0:29:04.480,0:29:08.160
Germany is a developing country, when it [br]comes to that.

0:29:08.160,0:29:15.820
That can not be![br]yeayea, I'll hurry!

0:29:15.820,0:29:20.750
Besides we were lucky, Andre and I are [br]both professional journalists in our

0:29:20.750,0:29:23.070
editorial office, but there are others, [br]who write

0:29:23.070,0:29:27.570
for us voluntarily. If they had published [br]this story,

0:29:27.570,0:29:30.340
they wouldn't have had the same rights [br]we did, for example

0:29:30.340,0:29:33.680
they had not right to remain silent, or[br]better a court

0:29:33.680,0:29:37.130
had to clarify that, if they have, because [br]

0:29:37.130,0:29:41.830
The legal definition for freedom of the [br]press talks about profession.

0:29:41.830,0:29:46.800
We say: Freedom of the press has to apply [br]for everyone, who submits to journalistic

0:29:46.800,0:29:50.080
standards and duties and work as a [br]journalist and not just for those,

0:29:50.080,0:29:54.730
who do this for money![br]<i>huge applause</i>

0:29:54.730,0:30:01.710
Also to insure the protection of the [br]sources,

0:30:01.710,0:30:05.510
the Telecommunications data retention [br]has to go! There are many other reasons

0:30:05.510,0:30:07.650
for that, but I say it now just from a [br]journalistic perspective.

0:30:07.650,0:30:10.220
<i>applause</i>[br]And most importantly the new law against

0:30:10.220,0:30:13.440
"Datenhelerei" has to go! And we will [br]support a lawsuit against it!

0:30:13.440,0:30:15.830
We need to quit mass surveillance

0:30:15.830,0:30:17.830
and to control the secret services!

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So the real Scandal, besides [br]"Landesverrat" is,

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that two years after the Snowden leaks

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this is seen as test for future cases, [br]and the surveillance is increasing

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massively supported by the government![br]What we wanted to say:

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Never give up! We will continue, despite [br]mass surveillance and so on.

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We were a little disappointed that the [br]campaign did not last so long,

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we had still a lot of ideas, what we [br]could do.

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We would be glad to receive more documents [br]and as a Thanks for the investigations

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we leaked the BND-strategies for [br]extending the net surveillance.

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You can read all on our page.[br]<i>applause</i>

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And so, Thanks to all of you[br]for your support!

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It helped a great deal to have so many [br]supporters

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in the civil society, in the media, [br]in our communities

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else we would not have survived this.

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So, if you are in favour of our work, [br]you can support us:

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netzpolitik.org/spenden or we have[br]left over some

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very cool T-shirts and Hoodies and bags. [br]There are somewhere...

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Where are they? A right! Here in front. [br]There are stickers, too,

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featuring Hans-Georg Maaßen, else... [br]<i>laughing</i>

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Thank you very much! Do more "Landesverrat" [br]and have fun on the congress!

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<i>applause</i>

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<i>music</i>

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subtitles created by c3subtitles.de[br]in the year 2016. Join, and help us!