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So when I say the word "vegan" to you,

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what do you think of?

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I'm sure for many of you,
you think of "Oh, vegans.

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Why can't they just live and let live?

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I personally have no problem
with you being vegan,

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but can you not force your views

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and just respect my personal choice
to eat animal products?"

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For some of you, you might be thinking,

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"Ah, no, vegan. I could never be vegan.

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I love the taste of cheese
far too much for that."

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And some you might
just be confused and thinking,

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"But eating meat is the circle of life,

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and after all, other animals
eat other animals,

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so why can't I?"

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This is a selection of the things 
that I used to say

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when someone said the word vegan to me.

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But I also used to say 
that vegans were crazy

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and that no one should ever go vegan.

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But now I am vegan.

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And so, how on earth did that happen?

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It's a question I often ask myself,

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and so to try and understand
why it is that I'm now vegan,

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I want to go through all the main
arguments that I used to make

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and show you why I changed my mind.

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And so, the first one:
"It's personal choice."

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Can we morally justify not being vegan

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by saying it's our personal choice
to consume animal products?

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Well, interestingly, yes,

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it is our personal choice
to consume animal products

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in the same way that it is
our personal choice to abuse a dog

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or beat a cat.

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In essence, what I'm saying
is that every action that we make

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is a choice that we
personally choose to make.

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And so to imply that it's morally
justifiable to use animals

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because it's a personal choice

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would mean that every action
that we as humans can make

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must also be morally justifiable

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because every action is a personal choice.

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And so, is it morally justifiable

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to randomly assault a stranger
on the street?

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Is it morally justifiable
to go to a shelter, rescue a dog,

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bring them home
and then abuse them yourself?

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No. Of course it's not.

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Because those choices have a victim,

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someone who suffers negatively

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because of the personal choice
that we have made.

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And so consequently,

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the inclusion of a victim removes
any possibility for moral justification.

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And besides, one of the reasons
that I went vegan in the first place

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was for personal choice.

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The personal choice of the trillions of
animals who are killed every single year.

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Who have granted their choice?

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They would just like to live their life
without human inflicted exploitation.

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Remember, animals don't willfully walk
onto the kill floor of a slaughterhouse.

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They are forced there against their will.

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Any notion of choice 
has been removed for them,

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and so when we cite personal choice
as a justification,

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whose personal choice are we considering,
other than our own?

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And if it is a choice,
then why would we choose to be cruel?

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And so we might then think,

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"Yes, but the difference is
these animals are bred for that purpose,

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which is why your example
of abusing a dog is disingenuous

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because that's just needless suffering."

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To which I would say, yes,

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but most of us find dog fighting
to be morally abhorrent,

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yet many dogs used in fighting
are bred specifically for that purpose.

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Does it make it acceptable?

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So we might then say after that,

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"Yes, but dog fighting
is illegal in this country,

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but farms and slaughterhouses
are allowed under law;

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they are lawful practices."

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But does legality equal morality?

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Is something acceptable
just because the law says so?

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I mean, if that was true,

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then dog fighting would be moral
in the countries where it's legal.

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And if we apply that way of thinking,
let's take it to a human situation.

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Is female genital mutilation
a moral and acceptable practice

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in the countries
where it's legally condoned?

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And let's take this argument
and this line of thinking

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and apply it to the "culture
and tradition" excuse as well.

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Is it justifiable to kill dogs
during the Yulin dog meat festival

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because the festival is a cultural event?

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Is it justifiable to slaughter 
dolphins in Japan

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or pilot whales in the Faroe Islands
because those events are traditional?

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And again, using that example
of female genital mutilation,

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is it a moral practice simply
because it is cultural and traditional?

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Because the thing is if we try
to excuse using animals by saying,

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"Well, they form part of our culture
and can be used in our traditions,"

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we therefore have to make

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every cultural and traditional action
and practice morally justifiable

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simply because they are cultural
and traditional practices.

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And so we might get
to the point where we say,

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"Well, that's all fair enough,

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but the thing is we need to eat
animal products to survive;

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in fact, they are optimal to our diet."

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And so, the question becomes,
Are animal products a necessity?

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Now, the American Dietetic Association,

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which is the largest body of
diet and nutrition professionals in the US

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and is formed of over
a 100,000 certified practitioners,

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has categorically stated

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that a vegan diet is healthy, safe
and nutritionally adequate

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for all stages of life, including
pregnancy, lactation and infancy.

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This is also supported
by the British Dietetic Association

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as well as the NHS.

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Furthermore, there is extensive
and conclusive research and evidence

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that links our consumption
of animal products

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to some of our leading
diseases and illnesses,

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including heart disease,
certain forms of cancer,

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type 2 diabetes, strokes.

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The issue of thriving on a vegan diet

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is not a contentious one
within the scientific community,

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and therefore, consuming animal products
will be deemed an unnecessary action.

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And so let's progress
the argument and say,

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"Yes, but you're denying us of our nature!

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After all we are omnivores.
Have you seen our canine teeth?

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And we've always eaten meat.

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If your ancestors didn't eat meat,
you wouldn't even be alive today."

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And so, to being with, many herbivorous
animals do have canine teeth.

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Take the saber-toothed deer as an example,

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which means that canines
don't necessarily equate to meat eating.

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Furthermore, there's many people out there

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that believe that biologically
and physiologically speaking,

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our bodies are more closely aligned
to that of herbivorous animals

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rather than omnivorous animals.

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They point to the fact
that our intestines are on average

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around three times longer
than that of the average omnivore;

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the fact that our jaws,
they grind side to side when we chew,

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like the jaws of herbivorous animals;

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and the fact that the
hydrochloric acid in our stomach

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is comparatively weaker
to carnivores but also omnivores as well.

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But personally,
I find that entirely irrelevant.

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I don't think it really matters
if we're herbivores or omnivores.

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I mean, just because
we can physically do something

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doesn't mean that we are
morally justified to do so.

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And because we don't have to eat meat,
that means we can survive of plants.

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So biologically speaking, 
it makes no difference,

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because we don't have to do it;

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and therefore,
in the absence of necessity,

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there is the absence
of justification as well.

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And so, I also think
it's a little bit logically dishonest,

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a bit disingenuous,

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that we claim that we're somehow built

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to be intrinsically designed
to kill animals,

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yet so many of us would
never want to kill the animal ourself.

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And so, if we wouldn't want 
to kill the animal ourself,

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why is it acceptable to pay
for someone else to do it on our behalf?

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I've always found it interesting

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when I try and show someone
slaughterhouse footage and they say,

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"Don't show me that!
That's going to put me off my food."

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Then I say, Well, why?

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Why would seeing the process of
how animal products arrive on your plate

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put you off consuming them?

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That seems to make 
little to no sense to me.

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And also, why is it that we get upset

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when we see footage of animals
being killed in gas chambers

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or animals struggling to survive

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as they desperately try to flee

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from the kill floor
they're being forced onto?

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Let's take that idea of ancestors
and run with that for a moment

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because our ancestors 
used to do lots of horrible things.

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They would rape. They would murder.

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Are those actions
automatically justified in society

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simply because our ancestors
used to commit them?

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And besides,

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why would we ever base our morality
on the actions of a primitive society

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where modern day notions
of right or wrong didn't exist

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and in the absence of choice

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consuming animals
was a necessity for their survival?

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Let's take that argument.

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Because it's also pertinent

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when we look at the "animals
eat other animals" excuse as well.

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Just because a lion kills
and eats a gazelle

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doesn't mean we're justified
to go to a supermarket and buy a steak.

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Lions are obligate carnivores,

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which means they need
to eat meat to survive.

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As we've already established: we don't.

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And like before,

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why would we ever base our morality
on the actions of wild animals,

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who are consistently documented

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as doing things that we would never
deem acceptable within our own country

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or, indeed, within our own
society in general?

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So the argument continued even further.

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So let's run with the idea
of necessity and survival

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because I'm pretty sure that if a vegan
was stranded on a desert island

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and the only thing
they had to eat was an animal,

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they would definitely do it.

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And so, the reality is

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no one knows how they'll react
in an extreme survival situation.

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That's really the point of the argument:

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to make vegans seem hypocritical

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if they say they might eat the animal
if they absolutely had to to survive.

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But there's been documented cases
of humans cannibalising to survive.

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There was a plane crash in the Andes,

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and the survivors of the plane crash lived

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because they cannibalised on the flesh
of the dead passengers.

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And so, cannibalism, in effect,
became a justifiable act in that moment.

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Does it mean that cannibalism
is a justifiable act in everyday society?

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Likewise, just because a vegan
might consume an animal

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if they absolutely had to to survive

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doesn't mean that
consuming animal products

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is a morally justifiable act
in everyday society.

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And so the argument presses further,

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and we say, "Yes, but consuming animals
is part of the food chain.

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I mean, it's the circle of life:

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everyone who is born must one day die,

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that's a natural process,

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that's symbiotic and harmonious to nature
and the world that we live in.

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And our food chains
are incredibly important.

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They symbolise part of the natural order
and help maintain and form ecosystems.

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Fundamentally they are there

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to ensure that population sizes
of animals are kept consistent

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and to ensure that the natural ecology
is just well balanced."

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But what we do to animals
when we selectively breed them,

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when we genetically modify them,

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when we artificially inseminate
and forcibly impregnate them,

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when we take their babies away from them,

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when we mutilate them,

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when we exploit them for what they
naturally produce for their own species,

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when we load them into trucks,
take them to a slaughterhouse

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where we hang them upside down,
cut their throat and bleed them to death

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has nothing to do with a natural order,

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and most importantly,

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it fits none of the criteria required
to be labeled as a food chain.

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You see, the food chain that we cite
is a human construct

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created very conveniently

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to try and justify
what is an entirely unnecessary act.

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It ignores the complexity,

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an interdependent web of life
that form our natural ecosystems.

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It is an appeal to nature fallacy
that overlooks our ability

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to make moral decisions
as beings who possess moral agency.

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In essence,

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the food chain argument draws upon
the idea of "might makes right,"

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the belief that
because you have the ability

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to physically exploit someone else,

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you're somehow 
justified to do so as well.

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And the circle of life,

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all that refers to is two moments
of our existence that are certain:

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our birth and our death.

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Everyone who's born must one day
come full circle and die.

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But what happens between those areas
of certainty is variable

241
00:11:50,964 --> 00:11:53,980
and has nothing to do
with preordained circle of life.

242
00:11:53,980 --> 00:11:55,832
If we run with that argument,

243
00:11:55,832 --> 00:11:58,650
we'd be morally excused
to harm anyone at any time

244
00:11:58,650 --> 00:12:01,049

in any manner that we so please.

245
00:12:01,049 --> 00:12:03,748
We'd be morally excused
to murder an animal or, indeed,

246
00:12:03,748 --> 00:12:07,397
murder a human as well, 
running with that logic.

247
00:12:07,397 --> 00:12:09,812
And so let's move this on
to a more practical note,

248
00:12:09,812 --> 00:12:14,993
because if the world went vegan, well,
what would we do with all the animals?

249
00:12:15,128 --> 00:12:17,793
We can't just release billions
of animals into the wild,

250
00:12:17,793 --> 00:12:20,226
that'd be devastating
for the natural ecology -

251
00:12:20,226 --> 00:12:22,099
and of course it would.

252
00:12:22,099 --> 00:12:23,537
But what we have to understand

253
00:12:23,537 --> 00:12:26,850
is that animal agriculture runs
on a system of supply and demand,

254
00:12:26,850 --> 00:12:28,833

meaning that when we buy a product,

255
00:12:28,833 --> 00:12:31,715
we demand that product be supplied.

256
00:12:31,715 --> 00:12:35,249
Now, farmers will only breed animals 
into existence if they can sell.

257
00:12:35,249 --> 00:12:37,889
They're not going to breed them
if they can't sell them,

258
00:12:37,889 --> 00:12:40,940
because that's just not
economically viable in the slightest.

259
00:12:40,940 --> 00:12:43,881
And so the shift to veganism 
would of course be very gradual.

260
00:12:43,881 --> 00:12:46,448
And so as the number of vegans increases,

261
00:12:46,448 --> 00:12:50,449
the number of animals being bred into
existence would decrease proportionally.

262
00:12:50,449 --> 00:12:52,730
And if - and of course it is an if -

263
00:12:52,730 --> 00:12:54,899
but if we ever get that vegan world,

264
00:12:54,899 --> 00:12:56,558
that vegan world would be a world

265
00:12:56,558 --> 00:12:59,915

where farmers are simply not breeding
animals into existence anymore.

266
00:12:59,915 --> 00:13:02,999
And as such, we will never be
faced with the dilemma

267
00:13:02,999 --> 00:13:06,415
of having to either release
billions of animals into the wild

268
00:13:06,415 --> 00:13:10,798
or take them to a slaughterhouse
so we simply discard their bodies.

269
00:13:11,797 --> 00:13:15,159

"But OK, OK, alright.

270
00:13:15,159 --> 00:13:17,500

I see what you're doing,
I see where you're going,

271
00:13:17,500 --> 00:13:18,755
but this is the problem.

272
00:13:18,755 --> 00:13:20,257
You see, vegans are hypocrites.

273
00:13:20,257 --> 00:13:23,935
Haven't you heard that small animals
sometimes die in the production of crops,

274
00:13:23,935 --> 00:13:27,131
and therefore, you can't even
be a 100% vegan?"

275
00:13:27,131 --> 00:13:28,500
Now, it's true.

276
00:13:28,500 --> 00:13:31,898
Animals like caterpillars and worms 
do die in the production of crops,

277
00:13:31,898 --> 00:13:35,948
and we also can't guarantee
that small mammals like mice and rats

278
00:13:35,948 --> 00:13:38,369
don't sometimes get killed as well.

279
00:13:38,369 --> 00:13:42,215
But the difference is that notion
of intention and certainty.

280
00:13:42,215 --> 00:13:45,449
You see, when we buy an animal product,
we're intentionally paying

281
00:13:45,449 --> 00:13:48,584

for someone to cause the suffering
and death of an animal.

282
00:13:48,584 --> 00:13:50,031
That is a certainty.

283
00:13:50,031 --> 00:13:52,448
When we buy a plant product, we're not.

284
00:13:52,448 --> 00:13:54,064
And so think about it this way:

285
00:13:54,064 --> 00:13:58,065

if you're driving down the road
and you accidentally run over a dog,

286
00:13:58,065 --> 00:14:00,148
morally, that is not the same

287
00:14:00,148 --> 00:14:03,814
as if you were driving down the road, 
saw a dog, actively pursued them

288
00:14:03,814 --> 00:14:05,870
until you run them over.

289
00:14:05,870 --> 00:14:08,549
But the philosophy and ideology
behind the argument

290
00:14:08,549 --> 00:14:11,110
that it's morally justifiable
to buy animal products

291
00:14:11,110 --> 00:14:13,831
because sometimes small animals
die in crop production

292
00:14:13,831 --> 00:14:16,842
adheres to the idea that morally speaking,

293
00:14:16,842 --> 00:14:22,167
accidentally hitting the dog is the same
as intentionally hitting the dog.

294
00:14:22,167 --> 00:14:23,915
"And so what about plants?

295
00:14:23,915 --> 00:14:25,517
Because plants are alive as well.

296
00:14:25,517 --> 00:14:29,768
So why don't we consider plants
within our circle of moral compassion?"

297
00:14:29,768 --> 00:14:32,432
And so, plants are of course alive.

298
00:14:32,432 --> 00:14:34,131
But they're not conscious.

299
00:14:34,131 --> 00:14:37,268
They don't have a brain,
central nervous system or pain receptors,

300
00:14:37,268 --> 00:14:41,464
but also more importantly,
it can take up to to 16kg of plants

301
00:14:41,464 --> 00:14:43,932
to produce 1kg of animal flesh,

302
00:14:43,932 --> 00:14:45,978

which means that vastly
more plants are used

303
00:14:45,978 --> 00:14:49,016
in the production of a non-vegan diet
than a vegan diet.

304
00:14:49,016 --> 00:14:51,268
So, if we care about plants,

305
00:14:51,268 --> 00:14:55,075
logically and morally,
we're still obliged to be vegan.

306
00:14:55,075 --> 00:14:57,800
And this also ties in nicely
with what we were just saying

307
00:14:57,800 --> 00:14:59,978
about animals being killed
in crop production.

308
00:14:59,978 --> 00:15:02,799
Because if more crops are used
in a non-vegan diet,

309
00:15:02,799 --> 00:15:06,365
that means if we care about small animals
being killed in crop production,

310
00:15:06,365 --> 00:15:11,162
we're again logically and morally 
obliged to still be vegan.

311
00:15:11,532 --> 00:15:13,469
"But what about soy farming?

312
00:15:13,469 --> 00:15:17,097
Because soy farming is devastating
for the environment, is it not?"

313
00:15:17,097 --> 00:15:19,765
Soy farming is terrible 
for the environment.

314
00:15:19,765 --> 00:15:23,732
But that's only because 70 to 85%
of all the soy that is grown

315
00:15:23,732 --> 00:15:25,483
is fed to livestock animals.

316
00:15:25,483 --> 00:15:31,464
In fact, it's predicted that as little
as 6% could be used for human consumption.

317
00:15:31,464 --> 00:15:33,864
And that's not even
about vegans eating tofu.

318
00:15:33,864 --> 00:15:37,564
Because soya is ubiquitous 
among nearly everyone's diet.

319
00:15:37,564 --> 00:15:42,469
It's found in breads and cereals, sauces, 
chocolates and so much more as well.

320
00:15:42,469 --> 00:15:43,797
So then we say,

321
00:15:43,797 --> 00:15:48,048

"But do we have to be vegan?
I mean, vegetarian? I get it.

322
00:15:48,048 --> 00:15:50,797

But animals don't die
in the production of dairy and eggs,

323
00:15:50,797 --> 00:15:53,766

so surely being vegetarian is enough?"

324
00:15:53,766 --> 00:15:56,331
Simply put - no, it's not.

325
00:15:56,331 --> 00:16:00,380
In the egg industry, male chicks are
useless because they won't produce eggs.

326
00:16:00,380 --> 00:16:04,381
They also won't grow to be the same size
as the chickens that we kill for meat,

327
00:16:04,381 --> 00:16:06,601
which means that as soon as they are born,

328
00:16:06,601 --> 00:16:10,182

they're thrown into a giant
macerator, minced up alive,

329
00:16:10,182 --> 00:16:13,848

or they're thrown into a gas chamber
and gassed to death.

330
00:16:13,848 --> 00:16:15,612
All egg laying hens as well

331
00:16:15,612 --> 00:16:19,516

will be sent to a slaughterhouse
after around 72 weeks of life,

332
00:16:19,516 --> 00:16:22,880
when their bodies are fully depleted
from being overly exploited

333
00:16:22,880 --> 00:16:25,822

and they're no longer
profitable to the farmer.

334
00:16:25,822 --> 00:16:27,166
In the dairy industry,

335
00:16:27,166 --> 00:16:30,135

dairy cows will only produce milk
to feed their children.

336
00:16:30,135 --> 00:16:32,126
They are mammals, just as we are.

337
00:16:32,126 --> 00:16:36,297
And so this means that farmers forcibly
impregnate dairy cows year after year

338
00:16:36,297 --> 00:16:39,131
to ensure a continuous cycle
and production of milk

339
00:16:39,131 --> 00:16:42,405
is there for him to sell, or her to sell.

340
00:16:42,405 --> 00:16:44,864
When the dairy cow gives birth,

341
00:16:44,864 --> 00:16:47,164
the baby will be
taken away from the mother,

342
00:16:47,164 --> 00:16:50,330
normally within 24 hours of birth.

343
00:16:50,330 --> 00:16:53,640
Male dairy calves are useless
to the dairy industry.

344
00:16:53,640 --> 00:16:58,098
And so this means that approximately
95,000 male dairy calves are killed

345
00:16:58,098 --> 00:17:01,798
shortly after birth in this country alone,

346
00:17:01,798 --> 00:17:04,382
normally by being shot in the head.

347
00:17:04,382 --> 00:17:06,595
This is because they won't produce milk.

348
00:17:06,595 --> 00:17:10,231
And it's sometimes not profitable enough
to be sold on for beef.

349
00:17:10,231 --> 00:17:13,423
The female cows will be raised,
and they too will join the herd,

350
00:17:13,423 --> 00:17:16,097
where they'll be forcibly 
impregnated year after year

351
00:17:16,097 --> 00:17:20,415
and all dairy cows are sent
to the slaughterhouse as well.

352
00:17:20,615 --> 00:17:25,650
Which means that dairy and eggs
are pretty much the same as meat.

353
00:17:25,650 --> 00:17:29,651
But potentially even worse
because the animals suffer for longer,

354
00:17:29,651 --> 00:17:32,848
and yet they still are killed
in the same way.

355
00:17:32,848 --> 00:17:34,963
And so let's talk about humane slaughter.

356
00:17:34,963 --> 00:17:36,494
This is something we often hear

357
00:17:36,494 --> 00:17:39,893
when we talk about the killing
of animals in slaughterhouses.

358
00:17:39,893 --> 00:17:43,814
Now, the word "humane" means having
or showing compassion or benevolence,

359
00:17:43,814 --> 00:17:47,113
which means that humane slaughter 
is of course an oxymoron

360
00:17:47,113 --> 00:17:52,048
because you can never compassionately
or benevolently take the life of an animal

361
00:17:52,048 --> 00:17:56,544
who does not wish to die
and who does not have to die.

362
00:17:56,821 --> 00:18:00,281
And so that brings us on
to our final excuse:

363
00:18:00,281 --> 00:18:02,048
taste.

364
00:18:02,048 --> 00:18:05,164
And so I want to leave you 
with a couple of questions.

365
00:18:05,164 --> 00:18:09,089
What has higher value:
taste or life?

366
00:18:09,463 --> 00:18:14,904
Do we require more than sensory pleasure
alone to morally justify an action?

367
00:18:14,904 --> 00:18:19,149
Remember that a meal to us
lasts only a matter of minutes,

368
00:18:19,149 --> 00:18:23,074
but that meal has cost
an animal their entire life.

369
00:18:23,074 --> 00:18:26,982
We take their life
for a moment that is fleeting,

370
00:18:26,982 --> 00:18:32,051
a meal that we forget about
almost as soon as we have consumed it.

371
00:18:32,948 --> 00:18:35,481
I used to think that vegans
force their views.

372
00:18:35,481 --> 00:18:37,031
I said this regularly.

373
00:18:37,031 --> 00:18:41,131
But one day I realised
that nothing can ever be as forceful

374
00:18:41,131 --> 00:18:44,297
as taking the life of someone
who does not wish to die,

375
00:18:44,297 --> 00:18:48,713
taking the life of an animal
who does not wish to die.

376
00:18:48,839 --> 00:18:51,697
And so in the end,
that's why I became vegan.

377
00:18:51,697 --> 00:18:55,882
Because when put into perspective,
my arguments held no veracity,

378
00:18:55,882 --> 00:18:58,381
no credibility, no validity.

379
00:18:58,381 --> 00:19:01,498
Fundamentally, I called myself
an animal lover,

380
00:19:01,498 --> 00:19:05,368
yet I paid for animals to suffer
and die on my behalf.

381
00:19:05,814 --> 00:19:08,030
Through all of the excuses I used to make,

382
00:19:08,030 --> 00:19:11,431
I realised that my values
contradicted my actions,

383
00:19:11,431 --> 00:19:15,226
and deep down, I could 
find no real justification.

384
00:19:15,799 --> 00:19:17,458
Thank you so much for listening.


385
00:19:17,458 --> 00:19:20,156
(Applause)