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Ellery Roberts Biddle [mid-sentence]: ...Our weekly video hangout series!
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I think - let's see, we started a little bit off time
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so I'll say it again:
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Ellery: Welcome to GV Face, our weekly video hangout series!
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Today, we are celebrating the 25th birthday of the world wide web.
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Pretty exciting. That was on Wednesday.
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Um, we've got a really all-star lineup of guests
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on today's program.
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Um, moving from left to right, we have:
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Alan Emtage, a very special guest who is
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gonna talk to us about his very special creation
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of, uh, the first web browser...
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Um! We have Jeremy Clark, in Montreal -
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Jeremy is a technical director at Global Voices.
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Josh Levy, from Free Press,
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in Massachusetts, in the U.S.
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and Renata Avila, campaign manager
for the Web We Want
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Creative Commons extraordinaire, and
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GV star, who is joining us from Berlin!
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Welcome, everybody!
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Um. So we wanted to start today's show
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by talking a little bit about the World Wide Web
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and the internet.
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'Cuz a lot of people think that they're the same thing
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when actually, that's not quite true.
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I want to first turn to Jeremy
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and just ask, Jer, could you
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break it down for us, like,
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I thought that the internet was invented in the 70's
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but, if it's the 25th birthday of the web,
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what does that mean?
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Jeremy Clark: Okay, well, the
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best place to start, I think, is
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the internet - it has existed in various formats
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since the 1970's, as you said,
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but it was the web that really made it
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enter our homes.
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and, so, understanding the relationship is important.
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So, the internet was invented by
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the U.S. Government in a lot of senses...
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...a mix of military and science funding
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that developed the network of
actual computers
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that can communicate with each other
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over wires.
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Now, another related technology that is also compri--
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[amends] uh, built in to the web
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is called hypertext. And that is the notion
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of documents that can link between each other
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immediately, without having to go and fetch
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a separate document. Um.
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So there were lots of systems since the 1960s
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that were trying to implement hypertext, like,
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Xanadu is an example,
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uh, but all of them were commercial,
expensive, closed,
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and none of them were very popular.
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So, Tim Berners-Lee, who is the
"inventor of the internet,"
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[corrects himself] of the web,
obviously, the World Wide Web -
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Um. [Tim Berners-Lee] put those two things together
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by building a service that runs
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on top of the internet, and he
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called it the World Wide Web.
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So what the World Wide Web is, is the
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decentralized hypertext engine
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that we use to communicate between
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computers' web pages.
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So what makes up WEB is three things:
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URLs, or URIs - Universal Resource Locator,
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which are the addresses we use
to find things on the web;
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HTML, which is the
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HyperText Markup Lanuage
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which is the way that the information
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is stored and sent
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so that we can then use browsers
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to view HTML, and then
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all the documents can be understood
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and then also they display the links
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so that the hypertext part of it works
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and we can jump around from page to page.
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Um, the final part is HTTP, which is
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the HyperText Transfer Protocol
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which is the communication method
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by which the different computers can
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talk to each other and send the
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HTML documents back and forth
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depending on the URLs.
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Um. So, when he built it, there were some
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very important things that he
built into this system
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that didn't exist before.
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And the main one is
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universal authorship.
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So he always intended that anyone
would be able
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to access these webpages,
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and anyone would be able to
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add their own webpages,
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without asking for permission.
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With the very explicit special condition
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that anyone can link to any other webpage
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without permission.
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Previous hypertext systems required that
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basically, for you to link to me,
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I have to accept that link,
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and probably create a link back to you,
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and that wasn't required on the Web,
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which gives us a lot of freedom
to link to people
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who wouldn't want us to be able
to link to them, for example,
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so no one can say "I'm putting up free content..."
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"...but you can't send your readers here,
because I hate you," et cetera.
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The other one is that he made it
completely, completely free.
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So in the world of
inter--[fumbles for words]--programming
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the most free thing is generally considered
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to be the GPL [General Public License]:
open-source, free software licenses.
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uh, and Tim Berners-Lee actually almost used
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the GPL, because he wanted the web software
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he was building to be free.
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But at the last minute he actually changed his mind
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and made it full public domain,
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because in certain ways,
the GPL is actually more restrictive,
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because it forces other people -
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like, certain commercial actors
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wouldn't have wanted to use web technology
if it were GPL,
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so he made it full public domain,
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and then from there went on to make all of the standards
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as open and, uh, general and free as possible.
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Uh. So that's my extremely brief
history of the internet.
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If anyone is curious,
he wrote a wonderful book
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called "Weaving the Web" about his experiences
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[enticing tone] As you can see, it's short!
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And he has lots of interesting technical information in it
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without being overwhelming.
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It's very approachable
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and he's a really interesting person
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and it - the book is much better than his tweets,
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which are usually incoherent.
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[one of the participants huffs out a "whew"]
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Ellery: Ouch!
Jeremy [?]: A few minutes?
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Ellery: Thanks, that was - that was great, Jer!
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Ellery: I mean, I think that that helps
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um, in conversations about internet policy,
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and internet governance,
there's a lot of emphasis
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on the ability to, kinda, create and innovate
without permission?
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Like, for everybody to be able to build parts of the web.
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And what you just laid out for us
makes it clear
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how important [expansive gesture] the Web piece of the infrastructure is
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for that, for that capacity to become
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a real tangible thing, and somebody that -
[amends] something that now
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we can do - we don't have to have
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technical expertise to kind of build our own
spaces there.
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Ellery: Um. So, I wanted to -
Jeremy: So um.
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Jeremy: If I could add just one more thing, sorry -
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Jeremy: I just wanted to give a couple examples
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of things that happen over the internet
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that aren't the web,
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because that was the actual initial question.
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So, one example would be torrents,
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where you're the - two computers
connect to each other,
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and stream information directly, without any URLs
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being mixed into the process.
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Um, another one is - email, at its core,
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is its own communication protocol
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that doesn't have to use the web,
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although we often use web sites
to access and manage our email.
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Umm. And then another one was the one
right before the Web came out,
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a very popular protocol was called Gopher,
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which people liked, and sort of worked like the Web
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- you surf around and find things -
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but it actually became commercial
right around the time that the web came out,
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so people would've had to start paying,
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and instead of starting to pay,
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they switched to HTTP, HTML, and
the World Wide Web.
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Ellery: Thank you.
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Ellery: So I want to move to Alan, now... Um,
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Alan built the first search engine.
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And I'm kind of... like, overwhelmed, and feel sort of
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like, giddy and nervous having him here.
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Ellery: This is just -
[Alan laughs]
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Ellery: This is, like, a really big deal!
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Ellery: So, Alan, just - if you could tell us -
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'cuz I think a lot of people don't know about Archie -
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um, it would be really cool just to hear
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about how you sort of - what you were doing
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that made you decide to, to do this
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and kinda what it was like, and then, I mean,
everything you've seen since...
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Unfortunately we're time limited, but...
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Alan: Right.
Ellery: You know.
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Alan [coughs]: Well, um, uh, well, that was back in
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1989, and, I was working as a system administrator
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for uh, McGill University - I was a grad student
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for McGill University - and um, I was responsible
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for getting software for - one of my responsibilities
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was getting software for the faculty and the students.
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And at the time, the three major
protocols on the internet
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- this was pre Web, ummm -
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was, uh, Telnet, which would allow you to log in
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to a remote machine.
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Email, ah, which would allow you to communicate
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ah, with another - as we do now, with a, with a
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remote machines, plural,
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and, and FTP, which was the File Transfer Protocol,
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which allowed you to move, ah, data files, or files
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from one machine to another.
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And at the time what we had was - people had made
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- remember it was a non-commercial internet
at the time -
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- actually, commercial traffic was forbidden
on the internet at the time,
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because it was run by the
National Science Foundation
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and it was using educational money
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and therefore other than companies with
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research arms, like IBM and HP
and those kinds of things,
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we didn't have any commercial traffic on the internet,
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which nowadays seems kind of amazing
to even think about -
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and, ah, so what people did, were to provide
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to provide free space on their machines
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- and remember, you know, at the time,
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a big disc would be a megabyte, you know -
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and so people would provide common repositories
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that you could deposit programs that you had written
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datafiles, and documents, and that kinda stuff.
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into these central repositories that were
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spread around the internet.
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Then other people could then retrieve them.
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And so I spent a lot of my time trying to locate
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software, or the information that my, the
students and the faculty were trying to find,
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and I got tired of it.
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and since I'm lazy and a geek, I...
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I automated the process.
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I got - instead of doing it manually, I had a bunch
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of scripts wake up in the middle of the night
every night,
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and go out and index these files.
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Now remember all of this was just file listings.
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It's not like Google, it's not like
a search engine would be today,
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it is just... filenames. All it was, was filenames.
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And so what it would do
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was it would go out every night,
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list all the filenames in all the repositories,
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and allow you to search lists of filenames.
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And I only used it for myself!
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I only used it, um, uh, for my own personal use.
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Um, and at one point my boss,
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who was also a student, a grad student at the University,
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let Peter Deutsch let it be known that, um,
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somebody was asking for, you know,
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could they, could somebody tell them where, um,
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y'know, a particular piece of software was.
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And, uh, uh, we, um, uh... we, you know,
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he came and asked me,
he knew we had this database
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and he came and asked me if I could help out.
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And I gave it to him, and if, y'know,
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half a sec- half a minute later I had the information,
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and so he put this posting online, and, umm.
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People then started asking,
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"Well, can you find this for me?"
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And, you know, all these manual requests!
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Basically - either through email, or UseNet postings -
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- which is what we were using at the time -
254
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we thought, well, this is silly,
255
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there's no point doing these things manually
256
00:12:36,570 --> 00:12:40,920
when we can just allow people access
to the database itself.
257
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And in a moment of insanity,
258
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we had to come up with a name for it,
259
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and I said, "Okay, well, let's just call it ARCHI-E,"
260
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which is "ARCHIVE" without the V
261
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And, ah, and within about three or four months
262
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we were consuming about half
263
00:12:57,267 --> 00:13:00,972
of all of the traffic to eastern Canada
[where McGill University is]
264
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as this search engine became - as people, y'know -
265
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- word of mouth -
266
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you know, people who know about Archie
267
00:13:08,038 --> 00:13:11,173
are generally people of a certain age...
268
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...I won't mention what that age is, but
269
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it's generally people who were in university
270
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or working on the internet, so it would have been
271
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so it would have been research people,
272
00:13:20,837 --> 00:13:23,729
people in academia in the early nineties.
273
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So Archie lasted for about, uh,
[hems and haws]
274
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Five years. Four or five years.
275
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And, um, it only indexed FTP archives.
276
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It never indexed the web.
277
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Now, I went on, as Archie became popular,
278
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and I got more involved in the standards process
279
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and that kind of stuff,
280
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I worked, uh, fairly closely with Tim Berners-Lee
281
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to, uh, to standardize - for example,
282
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I did the - I ran the committee
283
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at the standard-setting body for the internet,
284
00:13:54,579 --> 00:13:56,507
which is the IETF
[Internet Engineering Task Force]
285
00:13:56,507 --> 00:13:58,571
to standardize URLs.
286
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Because Tim had come up with
287
00:14:00,107 --> 00:14:02,546
a set of rules for URLS,
288
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and as we looked at expanding that
289
00:14:04,803 --> 00:14:07,539
to a larger range of resources,
290
00:14:07,539 --> 00:14:10,369
we realized that those rules did not cover
291
00:14:10,369 --> 00:14:11,939
all of the cases.
292
00:14:11,939 --> 00:14:14,706
So, we worked, for, uh - Tim brought the,
293
00:14:14,706 --> 00:14:17,033
the specification, his original specification,
294
00:14:17,033 --> 00:14:20,601
to the group, and we worked on it for,
295
00:14:20,601 --> 00:14:22,971
I don't remember, nine months to a year or so,
296
00:14:22,971 --> 00:14:25,067
to come up with a standard for URLs.
297
00:14:25,067 --> 00:14:26,706
So all of those URLs that we use,
298
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day in and day out,
299
00:14:28,233 --> 00:14:30,339
were, were standardized as a result
300
00:14:30,339 --> 00:14:31,433
of that committee.
301
00:14:31,433 --> 00:14:35,014
So, it was, um, it was a really exciting time,
302
00:14:35,014 --> 00:14:38,540
it was a time of, y'know - the question I always get
303
00:14:38,540 --> 00:14:41,267
is why didn't make a billion dollars off of it?
304
00:14:41,267 --> 00:14:42,707
And I keep reminding people that
305
00:14:42,707 --> 00:14:45,263
most of the people who were pioneers -
306
00:14:45,263 --> 00:14:48,202
with the exception of Marc Andreessen
[who co-founded Netscape]
307
00:14:48,202 --> 00:14:54,661
uhm, didn't make a whole lot of money off of these, these original things.
308
00:14:54,661 --> 00:14:58,573
We were working in an environment which, uh,
309
00:14:58,573 --> 00:15:02,633
put a premium on getting the technology out there
310
00:15:02,633 --> 00:15:05,730
making it as widely available as possible -
311
00:15:05,730 --> 00:15:08,340
Tim's big coup with CERN,
[European Organization for Nuclear Research]
312
00:15:08,340 --> 00:15:12,151
which is the organization that he worked for
when he first developed the web ,
313
00:15:12,151 --> 00:15:17,938
was to get CERN to put, um, the web software
314
00:15:17,938 --> 00:15:20,708
that he had created into the public domain.
315
00:15:20,708 --> 00:15:22,308
So it wasn't even his to give away,
316
00:15:22,308 --> 00:15:24,771
it was CERN's property.
317
00:15:24,771 --> 00:15:28,723
As an employee [of CERN],
[Tim's work] would actually belong to CERN.
318
00:15:28,723 --> 00:15:36,041
Uh. He, he actually convinced them
to put it in the public domain
319
00:15:36,041 --> 00:15:38,419
and that's what really, uh, y'know
320
00:15:38,419 --> 00:15:41,266
set [amends] lit a fire under the whole thing.
321
00:15:41,266 --> 00:15:46,203
At the time, the philosophy behind it
322
00:15:46,203 --> 00:15:47,906
was really, "Let's get this out there,
323
00:15:47,906 --> 00:15:49,067
"..this is a brave new world,"
324
00:15:49,067 --> 00:15:52,330
"..we don't know what all of this
technology's gonna be used for!"
325
00:15:52,330 --> 00:15:54,174
I don't think any of us - including Tim -
326
00:15:54,174 --> 00:15:56,266
imagined what it would become.
327
00:15:56,266 --> 00:16:00,139
Y'know, he, he always had a much grander vision of it
328
00:16:00,139 --> 00:16:02,170
but I don't - I can guarantee you -
329
00:16:02,170 --> 00:16:05,002
I've spent many, many, many, many an hour
330
00:16:05,002 --> 00:16:07,190
with drinks, in bars, drinking with Tim,
331
00:16:07,190 --> 00:16:09,971
and I can guarantee you that he did not
332
00:16:09,971 --> 00:16:12,236
- Sir Tim, by the way, Sir Tim -
333
00:16:12,236 --> 00:16:17,203
Um. I should - y'know, he even, he,
334
00:16:17,203 --> 00:16:19,941
I don't think, had any idea that it would basically
335
00:16:19,941 --> 00:16:21,002
take over the world.
336
00:16:21,002 --> 00:16:23,096
and half the world's population would be using
337
00:16:23,096 --> 00:16:25,221
the system that he created, twenty years later.
338
00:16:25,221 --> 00:16:27,336
[corrects himself] Twenty-five years later.
339
00:16:29,276 --> 00:16:30,691
Ellery: Thank you so much.
340
00:16:30,691 --> 00:16:34,433
Ellery: I mean, so, speaking of which, yeah,
341
00:16:34,433 --> 00:16:41,639
it has changed, and, I guess, [chuckles], taken over, in a way,
342
00:16:41,639 --> 00:16:45,666
um, that we, I'm sure, wouldn't have expected.
343
00:16:45,666 --> 00:16:51,682
I wanted to now move to Josh and Renata,
344
00:16:51,682 --> 00:16:54,521
who are both [something falls to the floor]
345
00:16:54,521 --> 00:16:57,139
very [she looks at the fallen object, winces]
346
00:16:57,139 --> 00:17:03,369
committed, involved leaders in what has now
347
00:17:03,369 --> 00:17:08,467
become a global effort to - I mean,
348
00:17:08,467 --> 00:17:09,580
the way that we're sort of putting it
349
00:17:09,580 --> 00:17:10,867
is "save the internet"
350
00:17:10,867 --> 00:17:13,908
or, preserve and protect the openness
351
00:17:13,908 --> 00:17:21,233
and all of the rights to free expression, access, um,
352
00:17:21,233 --> 00:17:27,095
and also privacy, that we all feel are embedded
353
00:17:27,095 --> 00:17:29,740
actually, in the way that it was built.
354
00:17:29,740 --> 00:17:33,338
So, Josh, I wondered if you could explain to us
355
00:17:33,338 --> 00:17:37,957
really briefly what your role is in your organization
356
00:17:37,957 --> 00:17:41,706
and then also, um, tell us about
357
00:17:41,706 --> 00:17:46,508
the Web We Want campaign, and explain, y'know,
358
00:17:46,508 --> 00:17:50,854
how you think this rights movement is shaping up
359
00:17:50,854 --> 00:17:54,771
and if you could kind of link it with everything that
360
00:17:54,771 --> 00:17:56,467
Alan just laid out for us,
361
00:17:56,467 --> 00:17:58,522
that would be really wonderful.
362
00:17:58,522 --> 00:17:59,538
Josh Levy: I'll do my best.
363
00:17:59,538 --> 00:18:01,742
Josh: So, my name is Josh Levy,
364
00:18:01,742 --> 00:18:03,307
Josh: I'm from Free Press,
365
00:18:03,307 --> 00:18:06,530
we're a U.S.-based organization,
366
00:18:06,530 --> 00:18:11,347
we advocate for better technology and media policy
367
00:18:11,347 --> 00:18:14,013
that allows for an open internet,
368
00:18:14,013 --> 00:18:16,938
for better representation of people in the media,
369
00:18:16,938 --> 00:18:19,947
including in, in media that's online,
370
00:18:19,947 --> 00:18:23,402
and for open access to information.
371
00:18:23,402 --> 00:18:26,371
And this issue that we're talking about -
372
00:18:26,371 --> 00:18:27,834
the anniversary of the web -
373
00:18:27,834 --> 00:18:30,173
is really central to our work,
374
00:18:30,173 --> 00:18:32,571
because we've been fighting, for example,
375
00:18:32,571 --> 00:18:38,770
to pass strong Net Neutrality policies
here in the U.S. for years.
376
00:18:38,770 --> 00:18:42,107
Basically ever since the issue first came up,
in the mid-2000s,
377
00:18:42,107 --> 00:18:44,234
when we saw big internet service providers
378
00:18:44,234 --> 00:18:48,200
blocking traffic coming from certain destinations.
379
00:18:48,200 --> 00:18:50,139
And that fight is ongoing.
380
00:18:50,139 --> 00:18:52,258
The FCC, the Federal Communications Commission here in the U.S.,
381
00:18:52,258 --> 00:18:56,938
which is charged with overseeing communications and technology policy,
382
00:18:56,938 --> 00:18:59,036
passed rules in 2010
383
00:18:59,036 --> 00:19:01,402
that were intended to protect Net Neutrality
384
00:19:01,402 --> 00:19:05,526
but were passed in a way that we knew
wasn't gonna hold up in court.
385
00:19:05,526 --> 00:19:08,553
And we were - unfortunately,
386
00:19:08,553 --> 00:19:11,800
we saw that happen earlier this year,
387
00:19:11,800 --> 00:19:14,729
when a court in Washington, D.C.,
threw out those rules,
388
00:19:14,729 --> 00:19:18,540
effectively throwing out any Net Neutrality
protections that people have.
389
00:19:18,540 --> 00:19:21,937
And so this gets back to what Jeremy was saying
390
00:19:21,937 --> 00:19:23,677
the "internet" versus the "Web," right?
391
00:19:23,677 --> 00:19:25,541
So when we're talking about Net Neutrality,
392
00:19:25,541 --> 00:19:27,032
which I hope a lot of people have heard of,
393
00:19:27,032 --> 00:19:31,610
this concept that we should be able to access any information that we want online
394
00:19:31,610 --> 00:19:37,539
without anybody getting in the way, whether that's a big company or the government -
395
00:19:37,539 --> 00:19:43,585
that is, essentially, that's a policy that applies to the internet:
396
00:19:43,585 --> 00:19:46,899
to the ways in which all of our computers
connect to each other.
397
00:19:46,899 --> 00:19:50,638
And we have this basic understanding
that the internet should be free and open,
398
00:19:50,638 --> 00:19:53,434
meaning that my computer should be able to connect
399
00:19:53,434 --> 00:19:55,769
to yours in this global network of computers
400
00:19:55,769 --> 00:19:58,942
without any entity inspecting the traffic,
401
00:19:58,942 --> 00:20:01,267
trying to understand what you're trying to access,
402
00:20:01,267 --> 00:20:03,073
and, based on that understanding, block it.
403
00:20:03,073 --> 00:20:06,040
So if it doesn't like the video you're watching,
[it would be] slowing it down;
404
00:20:06,040 --> 00:20:08,971
or, if it doesn't like the application you're using, blocking it -
405
00:20:08,971 --> 00:20:11,140
- that, that should be totally unacceptable.
406
00:20:11,140 --> 00:20:14,651
We should be able to connect to whatever we want in whatever way we want.
407
00:20:14,651 --> 00:20:16,342
And that includes using the Web, right?
408
00:20:16,342 --> 00:20:20,655
So the Web is basically an application that rides over the internet.
409
00:20:20,655 --> 00:20:22,940
The internet's this global network,
410
00:20:22,940 --> 00:20:25,836
the Web is just one application that
uses that global network.
411
00:20:25,836 --> 00:20:28,540
And so it's essential -
Net Neutrality is essential to using the web,
412
00:20:28,540 --> 00:20:30,515
because as we've seen today,
413
00:20:30,515 --> 00:20:33,231
using the web is so essential to all of our lives
414
00:20:33,231 --> 00:20:39,740
and big companies, and governments, have so much power over it that they can block all kinds of things:
415
00:20:39,740 --> 00:20:43,713
political speech, videos that we wanna watch, pictures of cats, et cetera.
416
00:20:43,713 --> 00:20:46,404
So. Um, anyway, so that's what Free Press is doing,
417
00:20:46,404 --> 00:20:49,664
in large part, trying to protect
that notion of Net Neutrality.
418
00:20:49,664 --> 00:20:53,779
And out of that fight came a number of campaigns,
419
00:20:53,779 --> 00:20:55,958
including the campaign to stop SOPA
[Stop Online Piracy Act]
420
00:20:55,958 --> 00:20:59,337
- which was the bad copyright bill a couple years ago here in the U.S. -
421
00:20:59,337 --> 00:21:01,521
and out of that came a realization, I think,
422
00:21:01,521 --> 00:21:02,797
here in the U.S. but [also] around the world,
423
00:21:02,797 --> 00:21:05,557
that we all needed to kind of talk to each other a little bit more,
424
00:21:05,557 --> 00:21:09,509
those of us who have been advocating for a free and open internet for a long time.
425
00:21:09,509 --> 00:21:10,906
And so we started doing that:
426
00:21:10,906 --> 00:21:14,170
Free Press led the development the drafting of
427
00:21:14,170 --> 00:21:16,282
something called the
"Declaration of Internet Freedom"
428
00:21:16,282 --> 00:21:21,822
which was a simple statement of principles
about our right to access information online.
429
00:21:21,822 --> 00:21:26,907
And out of that came a really fruitful relationship with Tim Berners-Lee's organization,
430
00:21:26,907 --> 00:21:29,329
- the World Wide Web Foundation -
431
00:21:29,329 --> 00:21:33,649
and we discussed ways in which we could move that effort forward,
432
00:21:33,649 --> 00:21:35,713
this Declaration effort,
433
00:21:35,713 --> 00:21:40,170
to involve more groups around the world,
more people around the world,
434
00:21:40,170 --> 00:21:44,144
and to guarantee that we all have
access to information
435
00:21:44,144 --> 00:21:47,278
and that that access, and the principles behind it,
436
00:21:47,278 --> 00:21:52,390
are not the domain of any one country,
or any one group of individuals.
437
00:21:52,390 --> 00:21:55,575
So, out of that came this great project,
the Web We Want,
438
00:21:55,575 --> 00:21:57,621
which Renata's gonna tell you more about.
439
00:21:57,621 --> 00:21:59,665
which is seeking to do just that:
440
00:21:59,665 --> 00:22:05,468
to pass laws, around the world, that will protect people's right to access the internet
441
00:22:05,468 --> 00:22:09,648
and to access content on the Web
without anybody getting in the way,
442
00:22:09,648 --> 00:22:14,677
and, uh, it's building steam very, very quickly:
443
00:22:14,677 --> 00:22:18,035
we are working with countries around the world to develop their own set of principles
444
00:22:18,035 --> 00:22:20,107
regarding the web and our rights on it,
445
00:22:20,107 --> 00:22:26,068
and organizing lots and lots of organizations that are really excited about getting involved in this effort
446
00:22:26,068 --> 00:22:32,285
and our dream of uniting groups who are all fighting the same fight but in different parts of the world
447
00:22:32,285 --> 00:22:33,939
is kind of coming to life.
448
00:22:33,939 --> 00:22:36,090
So, I'll let Renata tell you more about that.
449
00:22:36,090 --> 00:22:38,241
[Caveat: Renata is not a native English speaker, so verbatim transcription of her speech doesn't always make perfect sense.]
450
00:22:38,241 --> 00:22:40,393
Renata Avila: Eum, hello everyone, everybody,
451
00:22:40,393 --> 00:22:42,382
it's really good to be here?
[she tends to uptalk]
452
00:22:42,382 --> 00:22:44,566
Renata: Ah, so: the Web We Want.
453
00:22:44,566 --> 00:22:50,711
The Web We Want is a coalition of
[gestures as she searches for words]
454
00:22:50,711 --> 00:22:54,128
very important groups of organizations
from civil society
455
00:22:54,128 --> 00:22:57,072
I will mention of them:
456
00:22:57,072 --> 00:22:59,814
Access, that many of us are familiar with;
[AccessNow.org]
457
00:22:59,814 --> 00:23:01,914
APC;
[Association for Progressive Communications]
458
00:23:01,914 --> 00:23:04,805
Free Press, from the U.S.;
459
00:23:04,805 --> 00:23:10,085
7iber, in Jordan;
the Open Source Association, in Jordan as well;
460
00:23:10,085 --> 00:23:12,916
[ums and ers]
461
00:23:12,916 --> 00:23:20,521
Consumers International; Article 19;
Fundação Getulio Vargas, in Brazil;
462
00:23:20,521 --> 00:23:25,227
IT for Change, in India;
Public Knowledge, in the U.S.;
463
00:23:25,227 --> 00:23:30,879
and we, we have a - we got the confirmation that Open Knowledge Foundation,
464
00:23:30,879 --> 00:23:35,793
which has affiliates all over the world,
will join as well.
465
00:23:35,793 --> 00:23:37,683
So, basically, the campaign...
466
00:23:37,683 --> 00:23:40,260
..what we are trying to achieve here
467
00:23:40,260 --> 00:23:43,084
is to move from the reactions,
468
00:23:43,084 --> 00:23:46,483
the constant reactions that
the civil society/ we have,
469
00:23:46,483 --> 00:23:47,813
to a proactive approach.
470
00:23:47,813 --> 00:23:52,997
To have a positive agenda, to have the safe first, in different countries.
471
00:23:52,997 --> 00:23:55,190
And also globally.
472
00:23:55,190 --> 00:23:59,806
And what happens is usually that we come together last minute -
473
00:23:59,806 --> 00:24:03,725
we react to bad legislation being proposed,
474
00:24:03,725 --> 00:24:13,690
by either specific groups of interest, or a very
creative but not so well informed legislator...
475
00:24:13,690 --> 00:24:17,356
And so, in the last, let's say, five years,
476
00:24:17,356 --> 00:24:22,014
we have seen so many mobilizations against, against, against.
477
00:24:22,014 --> 00:24:27,252
So we think that yes, it's good to have a reaction to bad legislation,
478
00:24:27,252 --> 00:24:31,483
but it's much more effective to have a proposal coming from civil society.
479
00:24:31,483 --> 00:24:34,945
And not only - like, civil society understood as a -
480
00:24:34,945 --> 00:24:40,283
a more extended way as we usually use it in internet governance -
481
00:24:40,283 --> 00:24:45,554
but civil society involving everyone
in a fight for our rights.
482
00:24:45,554 --> 00:24:53,266
And so we have different activities and
different actions to achieve that.
483
00:24:53,266 --> 00:24:59,967
The first would be intense work in
specific countries where we [gestures]
484
00:24:59,967 --> 00:25:04,682
together, all the advisory committee,
so that there's something going on,
485
00:25:04,682 --> 00:25:08,878
some movement in civil society,
and there's some action there.
486
00:25:08,878 --> 00:25:16,546
So, the list of the countries that we have decided will be like the first "grant-ees"
487
00:25:16,546 --> 00:25:22,479
of um, more stronger support from the punt, uh, the, the, where we want manages...? will be:
488
00:25:22,479 --> 00:25:32,483
Japan, Indonesia, Philippines, India, Bangladesh, Brazil, Ecuador, the U.K., Tunisia, Nigeria, Kenya...
489
00:25:32,483 --> 00:25:34,084
...and South Africa.
490
00:25:34,084 --> 00:25:38,265
So, as you see, it's mostly
countries of the global south.
491
00:25:38,265 --> 00:25:42,679
Also the U.K., because we saw an opportunity there,
492
00:25:42,679 --> 00:25:47,642
and we also saw a regression of rights.
493
00:25:47,642 --> 00:25:52,351
It is very interesting to see how the
deterioration of rights in a country -
494
00:25:52,351 --> 00:25:54,363
- even in a democratic country -
495
00:25:54,363 --> 00:25:56,585
in the last ten years, has been very extreme.
496
00:25:56,585 --> 00:26:01,375
And this is really affecting the region.
497
00:26:01,375 --> 00:26:04,470
Apart from this intense work that we are planning to do,
498
00:26:04,470 --> 00:26:08,756
having national dialogues in these countries I informed you of,
499
00:26:08,756 --> 00:26:15,680
we have also - we are launching,
on the 21st of March, a mini-grant round.
500
00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:18,274
The mini-grants are for everyone to apply,
501
00:26:18,274 --> 00:26:21,118
so you don't need to be an NGO,
[Non-Governmental Organization]
502
00:26:21,118 --> 00:26:24,853
you don't need to be an expert to apply for these grants.
503
00:26:24,853 --> 00:26:26,889
What we want is normal people -
504
00:26:26,889 --> 00:26:29,783
- artists, musicians, everyone -
505
00:26:29,783 --> 00:26:35,812
to be involved in this and to, eh, [unintelligible] to celebrate, to party for the Web!
506
00:26:35,812 --> 00:26:38,679
But at the same time that we celebrate the Web,
507
00:26:38,679 --> 00:26:41,546
we start a conversation on what is the web we want?
508
00:26:41,546 --> 00:26:44,414
What is - [struggles for words]
509
00:26:44,414 --> 00:26:52,731
- which values, which form we want, which way we want to protect the Web in our countries.
510
00:26:52,731 --> 00:26:54,348
The free and open Web.
511
00:26:54,348 --> 00:27:02,215
And so it can be something as simple as
a screening in a public space?
512
00:27:02,215 --> 00:27:07,444
It can be more elaborate,
like a talk at your local library?
513
00:27:07,444 --> 00:27:09,265
It can be anything you want,
514
00:27:09,265 --> 00:27:12,846
it can be even a sculpture in the middle of a city.
515
00:27:12,846 --> 00:27:17,317
ah, telling people what the Web
represents [means] to you.
516
00:27:17,317 --> 00:27:22,597
But also, we know that we cannot abandon
those fighting "against."
517
00:27:22,597 --> 00:27:27,276
So we have rapid response grants.
518
00:27:27,276 --> 00:27:30,684
And these rapid response grants are for, eh -
519
00:27:30,684 --> 00:27:35,248
we, we have identified that sometimes to make something happen,
520
00:27:35,248 --> 00:27:36,532
you need some resources.
521
00:27:36,532 --> 00:27:38,347
Especially in some countries in the global south.
522
00:27:38,347 --> 00:27:43,014
So. For example, ehh, think about
a very bad surveillance law,
523
00:27:43,014 --> 00:27:45,708
about to be passed in, oh, Nicaragua.
524
00:27:45,708 --> 00:27:48,379
So, this rapid response -
525
00:27:48,379 --> 00:27:50,584
- which will be open during the whole year -
526
00:27:50,584 --> 00:27:55,147
- will allow activists to say, "Hey, listen.
This very bad thing is happening..."
527
00:27:55,147 --> 00:27:59,385
"..and we think that if we gather a group of people together..."
528
00:27:59,385 --> 00:28:05,013
"..and we print, uh, leaflets, and we make a short video about that..."
529
00:28:05,013 --> 00:28:10,383
"..we have a good chance to shift the opinions to our side..."
530
00:28:10,383 --> 00:28:11,681
"..the side of right."
531
00:28:11,681 --> 00:28:14,087
And so that will be open as well.
532
00:28:14,087 --> 00:28:20,999
that will be open on the 21st of March, and remain open the whole year.
533
00:28:20,999 --> 00:28:27,881
And what we will achieve at the end of the year is a very interesting collection of experiences.
534
00:28:27,881 --> 00:28:31,083
We will see that - [finds her words]
535
00:28:31,083 --> 00:28:35,416
what is the Web people want,
in the specific countries,
536
00:28:35,416 --> 00:28:38,982
with more intense follow-up
mechanism and dialogue.
537
00:28:38,982 --> 00:28:42,823
We will also see which techniques are
the best for rapid response
538
00:28:42,823 --> 00:28:45,914
when there's a threat to the open internet.
539
00:28:45,914 --> 00:28:50,717
by the collection of experiences from the rapid response grants.
540
00:28:50,717 --> 00:28:58,204
And also we will learn from ways to engage the broader public in our topics and in our issues.
541
00:28:58,204 --> 00:29:04,829
So I am very hopeful that especially
artists, or very creative activists,
542
00:29:04,829 --> 00:29:07,914
will find ways to engage the broader public.
543
00:29:07,914 --> 00:29:10,916
Because we need - this is ours.
544
00:29:10,916 --> 00:29:15,452
The future of [the open internet]
depends on us preserving it.
545
00:29:15,452 --> 00:29:22,582
And the more people invited to this fight,
the stronger we get.
546
00:29:22,582 --> 00:29:34,041
At last, I will... I would like to invite everyone to be engaged the way that you can engage.
547
00:29:34,041 --> 00:29:37,083
And to apply for these grants!
548
00:29:37,083 --> 00:29:42,317
But not only to apply for these grants -
also, to make things your own.
549
00:29:42,317 --> 00:29:47,148
If you want to write an article,
if you are an expert on specific topics,
550
00:29:47,148 --> 00:29:50,982
please write articles,
please share your knowledge with people,
551
00:29:50,982 --> 00:29:54,207
and please engage, and don't be apathetic.
552
00:29:54,207 --> 00:29:58,214
Because the Web offers us -
553
00:29:58,214 --> 00:29:59,513
- and the internet offers us -
554
00:29:59,513 --> 00:30:02,513
- this opportunity to communicate and connect beyond borders,
555
00:30:02,513 --> 00:30:08,378
and I think that, slowly, we are building this platform -
556
00:30:08,378 --> 00:30:13,243
- which is not a website but is a platform made of [amends her description] collective –
557
00:30:13,243 --> 00:30:22,546
- that is ready to jump and to take actions to save the web any moment that it is under threat.
558
00:30:22,546 --> 00:30:26,947
So. Yes. That's it.
559
00:30:26,947 --> 00:30:29,482
Ellery [laughs]: Thanks.
560
00:30:29,482 --> 00:30:32,314
Ellery: It's really - I think it's great to sort of,
to have that out there,
561
00:30:32,314 --> 00:30:36,803
for people to understand all the ways
that they can get involved.
562
00:30:36,803 --> 00:30:43,685
One thing I - so, in thinking about how can we make a little show today that would celebrate the web,
563
00:30:43,685 --> 00:30:47,579
I couldn't help but think about Global Voices,
564
00:30:47,579 --> 00:30:50,808
because that's what brings us all together here,
565
00:30:50,808 --> 00:30:55,388
and, I think that our community, in so many ways -
566
00:30:55,388 --> 00:30:59,346
I mean, we couldn't exist, wouldn't exist,
without the Web,
567
00:30:59,346 --> 00:31:05,314
but there are also so many particular attributes of it,
568
00:31:05,314 --> 00:31:08,011
when it comes to access and openness,
569
00:31:08,011 --> 00:31:10,348
that allow us to do all the things that we do,
570
00:31:10,348 --> 00:31:13,548
like, including this hangout, right now.
571
00:31:13,548 --> 00:31:16,304
Um. So I wanted to ask -
572
00:31:16,304 --> 00:31:17,830
- although we're really short on time,
573
00:31:17,830 --> 00:31:21,426
so I'm gonna have to ask you to be super brief, but -
574
00:31:21,426 --> 00:31:23,884
Jer, you, I kind of, I said, is there...
575
00:31:23,884 --> 00:31:29,946
...could you talk a little bit about what,
if you look at Global Voices,
576
00:31:29,946 --> 00:31:34,994
and sort of the way that it's grown up,
um, with the internet -
577
00:31:34,994 --> 00:31:36,445
- you've been here since the beginning,
578
00:31:36,445 --> 00:31:40,463
so you can kind of - just, just tell us a bit.
579
00:31:40,463 --> 00:31:42,619
Jeremy Clark: Okay, well, uh,
580
00:31:42,619 --> 00:31:47,517
Jeremy: I actually haven't been with
Global Voices since the very beginning,
581
00:31:47,517 --> 00:31:49,383
but I joined near the start.
582
00:31:49,383 --> 00:31:51,215
So, maybe you can see on my screen -
583
00:31:51,215 --> 00:31:54,754
- Global Voices was started actually in 2005, um,
584
00:31:54,754 --> 00:31:57,482
and one of the great things about the story is that
585
00:31:57,482 --> 00:32:02,550
it was started quickly and easily by Ethan Zuckerman
586
00:32:02,550 --> 00:32:06,448
who set up the original site, uh,
587
00:32:06,448 --> 00:32:09,765
along with Rebecca McKinnon,
who worked on the idea and the content,
588
00:32:09,765 --> 00:32:14,118
and so, they actually used WordPress, which
is the system we still use today,
589
00:32:14,118 --> 00:32:18,995
and which is very similar to the Web
in a lot of senses
590
00:32:18,995 --> 00:32:21,746
because it's a distributed project,
591
00:32:21,746 --> 00:32:23,514
people all around the world develop it,
592
00:32:23,514 --> 00:32:25,231
it's open-source, and it's free,
593
00:32:25,231 --> 00:32:32,082
and it is so not by convenience but very explicit philosophy and they're very active in defending that,
594
00:32:32,082 --> 00:32:37,270
and also in another way: uh, originally, at the time,
595
00:32:37,270 --> 00:32:40,352
there was a very popular free software
called Movable Type
596
00:32:40,352 --> 00:32:42,444
which became commercial,
597
00:32:42,444 --> 00:32:46,516
and instead of starting to pay for it,
people switched to Wordpress.
598
00:32:46,516 --> 00:32:48,882
So, this was our original website.
599
00:32:48,882 --> 00:32:51,615
We later redesigned it several times.
600
00:32:51,615 --> 00:32:57,652
And over the years, we have grown with WordPress
601
00:32:57,652 --> 00:33:02,630
to add - take advantage of the new features, and, uh...
602
00:33:02,630 --> 00:33:05,197
[gestures] - keep running our site.
603
00:33:05,197 --> 00:33:11,746
And so running our whole infrastructure on this very decentralized open-source model has been
604
00:33:11,746 --> 00:33:15,961
a really rewarding experience for us,
just as using the Web has.
605
00:33:15,961 --> 00:33:19,292
And obviously, the, uh, one of the most
interesting things is that
606
00:33:19,292 --> 00:33:21,561
Global Voices is all about the web.
607
00:33:21,561 --> 00:33:24,719
Without the Web,
without that decentralized authorship,
608
00:33:24,719 --> 00:33:25,776
- anyone can write to it -
609
00:33:25,776 --> 00:33:27,157
there would be no Global Voices.
610
00:33:27,157 --> 00:33:29,291
Uh, the whole point of Global Voices was to
611
00:33:29,291 --> 00:33:31,883
recognize that people all over the world
612
00:33:31,883 --> 00:33:34,335
were taking advantage of the benefits of the Web,
613
00:33:34,335 --> 00:33:35,982
and create one place where you could find it,
614
00:33:35,982 --> 00:33:41,864
sort of like Archie was with the pre-Web TelNet days
615
00:33:41,864 --> 00:33:45,215
a archive of things happening all around -
616
00:33:45,215 --> 00:33:47,083
- that's what Global Voices did.
617
00:33:47,083 --> 00:33:50,717
Um. So. Yeah!
618
00:33:50,717 --> 00:33:52,808
And, y'know, we've tried a lot of different
619
00:33:52,808 --> 00:33:55,914
infrastructure based around the web over the years;
620
00:33:55,914 --> 00:33:57,315
uh, we've used Drupal,
621
00:33:57,315 --> 00:34:00,514
we've used a lot of different online services...
622
00:34:00,514 --> 00:34:02,045
Obviously, like everyone else,
623
00:34:02,045 --> 00:34:03,945
the temptation to take advantage of Google's
624
00:34:03,945 --> 00:34:08,450
free offerings has always been
part of Global Voices' DNA:
625
00:34:08,450 --> 00:34:09,917
we use Google mailing lists,
626
00:34:09,917 --> 00:34:13,243
we use all the different things that they make for free
627
00:34:13,243 --> 00:34:14,951
which is an interesting part of the web,
628
00:34:14,951 --> 00:34:16,779
because it's not the Web, that's Google,
629
00:34:16,779 --> 00:34:18,455
just happening to give it away,
630
00:34:18,455 --> 00:34:20,580
but as a company, they have a tendency
631
00:34:20,580 --> 00:34:22,683
to follow the spirit of the Web, uh,
632
00:34:22,683 --> 00:34:26,084
even though they're doing so
for commercial reasons.
633
00:34:26,084 --> 00:34:27,717
But - yeah!
634
00:34:27,717 --> 00:34:30,549
That's my very brief summary
635
00:34:30,549 --> 00:34:31,681
of the history of Global Voices
636
00:34:31,681 --> 00:34:34,284
and how it parallels the Web!
637
00:34:34,284 --> 00:34:35,751
Ellery: Thank you!
638
00:34:35,751 --> 00:34:38,115
Ellery: I'm afraid we're gonna have to wrap up now
639
00:34:38,115 --> 00:34:41,576
but, just, to do that, I wanted to ask for
640
00:34:41,576 --> 00:34:44,550
a couple of, kind of, final thoughts...
641
00:34:44,550 --> 00:34:50,717
...from Alan, and perhaps also Josh, just -
642
00:34:50,717 --> 00:34:54,146
- Alan, I guess I'm especially interested in
643
00:34:54,146 --> 00:34:56,578
if there are, kinda, thoughts that you have
644
00:34:56,578 --> 00:34:59,875
on all of the activism and advocacy
645
00:34:59,875 --> 00:35:03,883
that's taking place around fundamental rights
on the Internet,
646
00:35:03,883 --> 00:35:09,016
from your own unique historical perspective.
647
00:35:09,016 --> 00:35:11,978
And then I wanted to close, um,
648
00:35:11,978 --> 00:35:17,915
by asking Renata to just tell us a very little bit about Bassel
649
00:35:17,915 --> 00:35:22,580
since there's also an important anniversary this weekend.
650
00:35:22,580 --> 00:35:24,513
So, I'm gonna just let you guys go,
651
00:35:24,513 --> 00:35:27,578
and then we will close out!
652
00:35:27,578 --> 00:35:30,758
Alan Emtage: Okay, well, y'know,
653
00:35:30,758 --> 00:35:34,649
Alan: I haven't been involved as an activist
654
00:35:34,649 --> 00:35:37,249
for, uh, for quite some time now.
655
00:35:37,249 --> 00:35:41,242
I sort of burnt out after a while! [laughs]
656
00:35:41,242 --> 00:35:45,978
- flying around the globe, and doing all the stuff that I did in the nineties.
657
00:35:45,978 --> 00:35:49,385
But I certainly pay a lot of attention to that stuff
658
00:35:49,385 --> 00:35:52,577
y'know, I'm currently involved in Barbados, right now,
659
00:35:52,577 --> 00:35:56,813
and it has been really interesting to try and,
660
00:35:56,813 --> 00:35:57,881
for one example,
661
00:35:57,881 --> 00:36:01,618
try and access content from the United States
662
00:36:01,618 --> 00:36:04,208
- entertainment content, that kind of stuff.
663
00:36:04,208 --> 00:36:06,616
And, I mean, I knew about this stuff in theory,
664
00:36:06,616 --> 00:36:11,752
but in practice, the antiquated models
665
00:36:11,752 --> 00:36:17,194
of content distribution
that we're still holding onto
666
00:36:17,194 --> 00:36:18,548
in this day and age,
667
00:36:18,548 --> 00:36:22,752
where, you know, geographical boundaries
and national boundaries and that kinda stuff
668
00:36:22,752 --> 00:36:26,749
are still very much at the center of these
business models.
669
00:36:26,749 --> 00:36:30,623
Y'know, things like BitTorrent
and that kinda stuff
670
00:36:30,623 --> 00:36:33,483
are wiping them away,
and they don't even realize it.
671
00:36:33,483 --> 00:36:37,848
The music industry has seen this happen,
now, for decades -
672
00:36:37,848 --> 00:36:39,382
Certainly from the activist point of view,
673
00:36:39,382 --> 00:36:43,748
in terms of keeping the Internet
free and available,
674
00:36:43,748 --> 00:36:45,515
it's gonna be a real challenge.
675
00:36:45,515 --> 00:36:48,681
And, I mean, it's such an
important technology now.
676
00:36:48,681 --> 00:36:53,378
You have things like
the Great Firewall in China...
677
00:36:53,378 --> 00:36:55,484
You have, you know, Russia, who recently -
678
00:36:55,484 --> 00:36:57,749
- as of yesterday, today -
679
00:36:57,749 --> 00:37:06,548
- shutting down, using new laws to shut down access to dissent against Putin...
680
00:37:06,548 --> 00:37:08,612
They realize the power -
681
00:37:08,612 --> 00:37:14,417
- Egypt was a real wakeup call for a lot of people in the use of social networking
682
00:37:14,417 --> 00:37:19,481
to organize and activate people and bring them out onto the streets,
683
00:37:19,481 --> 00:37:21,977
so governments are scared of this technology
684
00:37:21,977 --> 00:37:24,379
and it's important that we work really hard
685
00:37:24,379 --> 00:37:26,011
to keep it as free as it is,
686
00:37:26,011 --> 00:37:27,483
because they realize that, you know,
687
00:37:27,483 --> 00:37:30,583
information - how you control the information, you control the people.
688
00:37:30,583 --> 00:37:34,448
So, um, I think it is extraordinarily important
689
00:37:34,448 --> 00:37:36,946
that people like Josh [unintelligible]
690
00:37:36,946 --> 00:37:40,946
continue to work very hard
to stop the bad laws,
691
00:37:40,946 --> 00:37:43,116
to inform the legislators -
692
00:37:43,116 --> 00:37:44,810
- some of them are just doing it out of ignorance!
693
00:37:44,810 --> 00:37:45,417
I mean, you know,
694
00:37:45,417 --> 00:37:49,114
"Never ascribe to malice what can be ascribed to incompetence."
695
00:37:49,114 --> 00:37:51,207
And, uh, a lot of these people are just
696
00:37:51,207 --> 00:37:53,185
incompetent, not malicious.
697
00:37:53,185 --> 00:37:56,615
But there are people who are malicious,
as well [laughing a bit]
698
00:37:56,615 --> 00:37:58,247
so we have to deal with them as well.
699
00:37:58,247 --> 00:38:00,516
But, um, you know, it's vitally important
700
00:38:00,516 --> 00:38:04,072
because, uh, nowadays, these technologies
701
00:38:04,072 --> 00:38:05,948
really sit at the core of our culture
702
00:38:05,948 --> 00:38:07,749
and the way that we
communicate with one another.
703
00:38:07,749 --> 00:38:12,142
[long silence]
704
00:38:12,142 --> 00:38:14,682
Josh [wondering if he should speak next]: ...Me?
705
00:38:14,682 --> 00:38:16,482
[Josh laughs silently]
706
00:38:16,482 --> 00:38:18,913
Josh: I'll just add one thing real quickly -
707
00:38:18,913 --> 00:38:20,945
- I think that we're at an interesting moment
708
00:38:20,945 --> 00:38:28,347
where so many of us acknowledge the importance of the Internet and the Web,
709
00:38:28,347 --> 00:38:33,616
and the impact that it's had on every aspect of our culture,
710
00:38:33,616 --> 00:38:34,766
and because of that,
711
00:38:34,766 --> 00:38:41,245
I think we as the users of the Web,
and of the Internet, have a duty
712
00:38:41,245 --> 00:38:49,981
to hold governments around the world and companies around the world accountable
713
00:38:49,981 --> 00:38:54,882
and to urge them and pressure them
714
00:38:54,882 --> 00:39:01,931
to protect the openness that lies at the core of this entire thing.
715
00:39:01,931 --> 00:39:04,689
And to protect, not just openness, but
716
00:39:04,689 --> 00:39:06,926
also this notion of a Commons.
717
00:39:06,926 --> 00:39:10,998
That's - in our opinion - quickly being lost.
718
00:39:10,998 --> 00:39:17,465
This notion that the Internet, and the Web,
are publicly owned,
719
00:39:17,465 --> 00:39:20,897
and that the activity that takes place on them
720
00:39:20,897 --> 00:39:22,986
is activity that we undertake
721
00:39:22,986 --> 00:39:25,280
and that is ours.
722
00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:30,047
And that is not the domain of the big companies' platforms.
723
00:39:30,047 --> 00:39:31,420
We undertake the activity.
724
00:39:31,420 --> 00:39:33,483
So, for example,
725
00:39:33,483 --> 00:39:35,626
Google has allowed us to do a lot of things.
726
00:39:35,626 --> 00:39:39,455
Google allows us to find a lot of information extremely quickly,
727
00:39:39,455 --> 00:39:41,849
to connect to each other extremely well,
728
00:39:41,849 --> 00:39:43,933
to use Google Hangouts as we're doing right now,
729
00:39:43,933 --> 00:39:47,384
but Google's doing all of this at the -
730
00:39:47,384 --> 00:39:51,383
- while mining the data that we give it,
selling off that data -
731
00:39:51,383 --> 00:39:55,378
- that data is also creating this historical record
732
00:39:55,378 --> 00:39:57,780
of everything that we search for
and say online,
733
00:39:57,780 --> 00:39:59,512
which as we know,
can be exploited by governments,
734
00:39:59,512 --> 00:40:00,953
- but also by companies -
735
00:40:00,953 --> 00:40:03,994
and so I think it's time for us to think about that relationship
736
00:40:03,994 --> 00:40:05,656
between us and these big companies,
737
00:40:05,656 --> 00:40:10,487
which is becoming the central part of our online experience.
738
00:40:10,487 --> 00:40:13,355
And how can we decentralize that?
739
00:40:13,355 --> 00:40:17,173
How can we decouple ourselves from these giant companies
740
00:40:17,173 --> 00:40:18,907
and take back a portion of the Web
741
00:40:18,907 --> 00:40:22,473
so that we own this experience in a deeper way
742
00:40:22,473 --> 00:40:26,256
and it's not experienced as purely commercial,
743
00:40:26,256 --> 00:40:28,911
a commercial transaction between us an a big company.
744
00:40:28,911 --> 00:40:30,593
So that's a big question,
745
00:40:30,593 --> 00:40:32,524
and it's going to take years to unravel it, to find solutions,
746
00:40:32,524 --> 00:40:35,594
but we're hoping that we can start that conversation now.
747
00:40:35,594 --> 00:40:42,764
[long silence]
748
00:40:42,764 --> 00:40:49,187
Renata: Well, now I will go back to something that Jeremy said.
749
00:40:49,187 --> 00:40:53,937
It was about him being stopped in the border, the Canadian border
750
00:40:53,937 --> 00:40:56,266
because of "hacker."
751
00:40:56,266 --> 00:40:59,846
And what I want to talk about is that,
752
00:40:59,846 --> 00:41:01,547
at the end of the day, there's, ah -
753
00:41:01,547 --> 00:41:06,557
we reduce the number of people who can actually,
754
00:41:06,557 --> 00:41:10,024
in some countries, not control the internet,
755
00:41:10,024 --> 00:41:17,256
but understand the infrastructure, and use it in a way that they can increase public good.
756
00:41:17,256 --> 00:41:20,098
and they can help people in extreme situations.
757
00:41:20,098 --> 00:41:25,435
And one of these people is my friend
Bassel Khartabil -
758
00:41:25,435 --> 00:41:29,465
[fondly] Bassel, Bassel is the internet.
Basically.
759
00:41:29,465 --> 00:41:34,407
Basel is a Palestinian-Syrian activist,
760
00:41:34,407 --> 00:41:36,711
he's an activist of Greek culture,
761
00:41:36,711 --> 00:41:38,430
and he's a global citizen, you know?
762
00:41:38,430 --> 00:41:42,224
He's not super nationalistic, he, he,
763
00:41:42,224 --> 00:41:44,225
he has traveled a lot, extensively,
764
00:41:44,225 --> 00:41:46,717
he has friends all over the world,
765
00:41:46,717 --> 00:41:52,319
and he likes to spend time learning how things work, how things operate,
766
00:41:52,319 --> 00:41:55,531
so he's very good with computers -
767
00:41:55,531 --> 00:42:02,421
he learned himself how to code,
thanks to his uncle -
768
00:42:02,421 --> 00:42:05,725
He knows a lot about hardware as well,
769
00:42:05,725 --> 00:42:09,444
and he knows a lot about
Greek culture and design.
770
00:42:09,444 --> 00:42:16,027
And so during his travels he saw all these wonderful things happening
771
00:42:16,027 --> 00:42:18,413
and so he decided, with a group of friends,
772
00:42:18,413 --> 00:42:21,252
to create a hackerspace in Damascus
773
00:42:21,252 --> 00:42:23,256
I don't know how translation works,
774
00:42:23,256 --> 00:42:31,596
but apparently "hacker-space" was a very scary word for the Syrian intelligence services,
775
00:42:31,596 --> 00:42:34,118
and they saw it as a threat -
776
00:42:34,118 --> 00:42:40,461
like, people in power view technology as a threat to their plan to control people.
777
00:42:40,461 --> 00:42:46,358
So on the 15th of December, two years ago,
778
00:42:46,358 --> 00:42:48,800
the hackerspace was raided...
779
00:42:48,800 --> 00:42:50,792
All the computers were taken away,
780
00:42:50,792 --> 00:42:52,616
all the things were dismantled -
781
00:42:52,616 --> 00:42:58,769
- can you imagine one of these Syrian police looking at the 3D printer, oh my god,
782
00:42:58,769 --> 00:43:02,808
[derisively] probably thought they were like nuclear weapons, or something like that -
783
00:43:02,808 --> 00:43:07,340
and, sadly, he has been away, he has been in prison.
784
00:43:07,340 --> 00:43:14,826
He was in a very, very bad prison, subject to torture treatment.
785
00:43:14,826 --> 00:43:19,220
But then he was - thanks to the advocacy of thousands of people,
786
00:43:19,220 --> 00:43:23,502
he was re-transferred back to the civilian prison.
787
00:43:23,502 --> 00:43:29,468
Which, you can imagine, how, even if it's a civilian prison, how this prison looks like.
788
00:43:29,468 --> 00:43:36,719
I mean, it is... the conditions get bad to worse as time goes by,
789
00:43:36,719 --> 00:43:40,985
as the Syrian government runs out of resources.
790
00:43:40,985 --> 00:43:46,533
The last people they will feed, the last people they will take care of, are the prisoners.
791
00:43:46,533 --> 00:43:50,976
On top of that, Bassel, he has a health condition...
792
00:43:50,976 --> 00:43:52,902
It is all really sad.
793
00:43:52,902 --> 00:43:58,539
But, what we have been trying to do during these two years
794
00:43:58,539 --> 00:44:00,263
is to keep him peaceful.
795
00:44:00,263 --> 00:44:03,540
And to keep reminding him that we haven't forgotten
796
00:44:03,540 --> 00:44:08,724
and to keep reminding him that we embrace the values that he embraces.
797
00:44:08,724 --> 00:44:13,115
And we support the causes that he supports.
798
00:44:13,115 --> 00:44:19,510
So, instead of, you know, just being sad,
and doing nothing,
799
00:44:19,510 --> 00:44:21,631
we are a doing a Free Bassel Day.
800
00:44:21,631 --> 00:44:23,094
On the 15th of March.
801
00:44:23,094 --> 00:44:25,797
Well, some things are already starting today!
802
00:44:25,797 --> 00:44:29,283
And what we want is, ah, joint action -
803
00:44:29,283 --> 00:44:34,107
- doing things, doing anything you can do to remember Bassel.
804
00:44:34,107 --> 00:44:37,596
And not only Bassel. To remember Syria.
805
00:44:37,596 --> 00:44:39,756
Because it seems that because of the news,
806
00:44:39,756 --> 00:44:43,976
we just, we don't hear about Syria anymore!
807
00:44:43,976 --> 00:44:49,743
I mean, it's like, it is on, you know, in the parking lot,
808
00:44:49,743 --> 00:44:54,656
and if we have some time, we go, "oh, okay, something is going badly there."
809
00:44:54,656 --> 00:44:58,001
But, uh, we seem to have forgotten about all the suffering.
810
00:44:58,001 --> 00:45:01,056
And together with Bassel there are
811
00:45:01,056 --> 00:45:07,457
lots of system administrators, computer experts, and hackers who are in prison,
812
00:45:07,457 --> 00:45:09,678
and sometimes we only care about journalists!
813
00:45:09,678 --> 00:45:14,748
But, you know, there's lots of people, valuable people for the future of Syria,
814
00:45:14,748 --> 00:45:19,384
who are in prison now,
who need our solidarity.
815
00:45:19,384 --> 00:45:25,717
I would also like to... if you live in a country which has received Syrian refugees,
816
00:45:25,717 --> 00:45:27,793
please show your solidarity.
817
00:45:27,793 --> 00:45:31,521
I know that sharing your computer might not sound appealing,
818
00:45:31,521 --> 00:45:36,945
but maybe crowdfunding and giving a computer with internet access to this refugee camp
819
00:45:36,945 --> 00:45:40,454
so they can stay in touch with their relatives abroad...?
820
00:45:40,454 --> 00:45:45,603
Maybe doing a short talk or short gathering near them...?
821
00:45:45,603 --> 00:45:49,489
I think that those are good ways to help Bassel.
822
00:45:49,489 --> 00:45:53,494
Because that's what Bassel probably would be doing if he was free.
823
00:45:53,494 --> 00:45:58,372
So my appeal is that - to not forget Syria, to not forget Bassel.
824
00:45:58,372 --> 00:46:03,086
The free internet is a free internet with free Bassel and free Syria!
825
00:46:03,086 --> 00:46:06,780
And that's - [laughingly] - the Web I want, actually!
826
00:46:06,780 --> 00:46:08,888
Ellery: That is the Web she wants!
827
00:46:08,888 --> 00:46:10,120
Ellery: The Web many of us want.
828
00:46:10,120 --> 00:46:12,487
So, there's a lot of work to do,
829
00:46:12,487 --> 00:46:18,350
and there are lots of ways to get involved,
as we've heard about.
830
00:46:18,350 --> 00:46:20,521
Thank you, everybody, so much
831
00:46:20,521 --> 00:46:23,421
for coming on today,
832
00:46:23,421 --> 00:46:31,348
and, umm, we hope to see everybody here and out there, next week on GV Face!
833
00:46:31,348 --> 00:46:33,410
Thanks so much!