WEBVTT
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Ellery Roberts Biddle [mid-sentence]: ...Our weekly video hangout series!
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I think - let's see, we started a little bit off time
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so I'll say it again:
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Ellery: Welcome to GV Face, our weekly video hangout series!
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Today, we are celebrating the 25th birthday of the world wide web.
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Pretty exciting. That was on Wednesday.
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Um, we've got a really all-star lineup of guests
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on today's program.
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Um, moving from left to right, we have:
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Alan Emtage, a very special guest who is
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gonna talk to us about his very special creation
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of, uh, the first web browser...
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Um! We have Jeremy Clark, in Montreal -
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Jeremy is a technical director at Global Voices.
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Josh Levy, from Free Press,
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in Massachusetts, in the U.S.
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and Renata Avila, campaign manager
for the Web We Want
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Creative Commons extraordinaire, and
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GV star, who is joining us from Berlin!
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Welcome, everybody!
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Um. So we wanted to start today's show
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by talking a little bit about the World Wide Web
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and the internet.
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'Cuz a lot of people think that they're the same thing
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when actually, that's not quite true.
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I want to first turn to Jeremy
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and just ask, Jer, could you
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break it down for us, like,
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I thought that the internet was invented in the 70's
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but, if it's the 25th birthday of the web,
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what does that mean?
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Jeremy Clark: Okay, well, the
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best place to start, I think, is
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the internet - it has existed in various formats
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since the 1970's, as you said,
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but it was the web that really made it
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enter our homes.
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and, so, understanding the relationship is important.
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So, the internet was invented by
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the U.S. Government in a lot of senses...
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...a mix of military and science funding
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that developed the network of
actual computers
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that can communicate with each other
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over wires.
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Now, another related technology that is also compri--
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[amends] uh, built in to the web
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is called hypertext. And that is the notion
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of documents that can link between each other
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immediately, without having to go and fetch
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a separate document. Um.
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So there were lots of systems since the 1960s
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that were trying to implement hypertext, like,
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Xanadu is an example,
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uh, but all of them were commercial,
expensive, closed,
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and none of them were very popular.
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So, Tim Berners-Lee, who is the
"inventor of the internet,"
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[corrects himself] of the web,
obviously, the World Wide Web -
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Um. [Tim Berners-Lee] put those two things together
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by building a service that runs
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on top of the internet, and he
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called it the World Wide Web.
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So what the World Wide Web is, is the
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decentralized hypertext engine
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that we use to communicate between
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computers' web pages.
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So what makes up WEB is three things:
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URLs, or URIs - Universal Resource Locator,
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which are the addresses we use
to find things on the web;
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HTML, which is the
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HyperText Markup Lanuage
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which is the way that the information
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is stored and sent
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so that we can then use browsers
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to view HTML, and then
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all the documents can be understood
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and then also they display the links
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so that the hypertext part of it works
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and we can jump around from page to page.
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Um, the final part is HTTP, which is
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the HyperText Transfer Protocol
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which is the communication method
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by which the different computers can
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talk to each other and send the
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HTML documents back and forth
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depending on the URLs.
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Um. So, when he built it, there were some
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very important things that he
built into this system
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that didn't exist before.
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And the main one is
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universal authorship.
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So he always intended that anyone
would be able
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to access these webpages,
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and anyone would be able to
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add their own webpages,
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without asking for permission.
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With the very explicit special condition
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that anyone can link to any other webpage
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without permission.
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Previous hypertext systems required that
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basically, for you to link to me,
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I have to accept that link,
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and probably create a link back to you,
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and that wasn't required on the Web,
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which gives us a lot of freedom
to link to people
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who wouldn't want us to be able
to link to them, for example,
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so no one can say "I'm putting up free content..."
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"...but you can't send your readers here,
because I hate you," et cetera.
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The other one is that he made it
completely, completely free.
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So in the world of
inter--[fumbles for words]--programming
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the most free thing is generally considered
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to be the GPL [General Public License]:
open-source, free software licenses.
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uh, and Tim Berners-Lee actually almost used
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the GPL, because he wanted the web software
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he was building to be free.
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But at the last minute he actually changed his mind
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and made it full public domain,
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because in certain ways,
the GPL is actually more restrictive,
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because it forces other people -
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like, certain commercial actors
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wouldn't have wanted to use web technology
if it were GPL,
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so he made it full public domain,
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and then from there went on to make all of the standards
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as open and, uh, general and free as possible.
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Uh. So that's my extremely brief
history of the internet.
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If anyone is curious,
he wrote a wonderful book
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called "Weaving the Web" about his experiences
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[enticing tone] As you can see, it's short!
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And he has lots of interesting technical information in it
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without being overwhelming.
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It's very approachable
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and he's a really interesting person
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and it - the book is much better than his tweets,
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which are usually incoherent.
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[one of the participants huffs out a "whew"]
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Ellery: Ouch!
Jeremy [?]: A few minutes?
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Ellery: Thanks, that was - that was great, Jer!
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Ellery: I mean, I think that that helps
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um, in conversations about internet policy,
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and internet governance,
there's a lot of emphasis
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on the ability to, kinda, create and innovate
without permission?
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Like, for everybody to be able to build parts of the web.
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And what you just laid out for us
makes it clear
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how important [expansive gesture] the Web piece of the infrastructure is
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for that, for that capacity to become
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a real tangible thing, and somebody that -
[amends] something that now
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we can do - we don't have to have
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technical expertise to kind of build our own
spaces there.
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Ellery: Um. So, I wanted to -
Jeremy: So um.
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Jeremy: If I could add just one more thing, sorry -
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Jeremy: I just wanted to give a couple examples
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of things that happen over the internet
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that aren't the web,
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because that was the actual initial question.
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So, one example would be torrents,
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where you're the - two computers
connect to each other,
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and stream information directly, without any URLs
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being mixed into the process.
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Um, another one is - email, at its core,
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is its own communication protocol
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that doesn't have to use the web,
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although we often use web sites
to access and manage our email.
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Umm. And then another one was the one
right before the Web came out,
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a very popular protocol was called Gopher,
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which people liked, and sort of worked like the Web
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- you surf around and find things -
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but it actually became commercial
right around the time that the web came out,
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so people would've had to start paying,
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and instead of starting to pay,
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they switched to HTTP, HTML, and
the World Wide Web.
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Ellery: Thank you.
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Ellery: So I want to move to Alan, now... Um,
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Alan built the first search engine.
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And I'm kind of... like, overwhelmed, and feel sort of
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like, giddy and nervous having him here.
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Ellery: This is just -
[Alan laughs]
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Ellery: This is, like, a really big deal!
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Ellery: So, Alan, just - if you could tell us -
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'cuz I think a lot of people don't know about Archie -
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um, it would be really cool just to hear
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about how you sort of - what you were doing
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that made you decide to, to do this
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and kinda what it was like, and then, I mean,
everything you've seen since...
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Unfortunately we're time limited, but...
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Alan: Right.
Ellery: You know.
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Alan [coughs]: Well, um, uh, well, that was back in
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1989, and, I was working as a system administrator
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for uh, McGill University - I was a grad student
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for McGill University - and um, I was responsible
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for getting software for - one of my responsibilities
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was getting software for the faculty and the students.
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And at the time, the three major
protocols on the internet
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- this was pre Web, ummm -
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was, uh, Telnet, which would allow you to log in
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to a remote machine.
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Email, ah, which would allow you to communicate
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ah, with another - as we do now, with a, with a
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remote machines, plural,
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and, and FTP, which was the File Transfer Protocol,
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which allowed you to move, ah, data files, or files
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from one machine to another.
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And at the time what we had was - people had made
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- remember it was a non-commercial internet
at the time -
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- actually, commercial traffic was forbidden
on the internet at the time,
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because it was run by the
National Science Foundation
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and it was using educational money
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and therefore other than companies with
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research arms, like IBM and HP
and those kinds of things,
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we didn't have any commercial traffic on the internet,
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which nowadays seems kind of amazing
to even think about -
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and, ah, so what people did, were to provide
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to provide free space on their machines
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- and remember, you know, at the time,
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a big disc would be a megabyte, you know -
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and so people would provide common repositories
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that you could deposit programs that you had written
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datafiles, and documents, and that kinda stuff.
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into these central repositories that were
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spread around the internet.
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Then other people could then retrieve them.
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And so I spent a lot of my time trying to locate
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software, or the information that my, the
students and the faculty were trying to find,
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and I got tired of it.
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and since I'm lazy and a geek, I...
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I automated the process.
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I got - instead of doing it manually, I had a bunch
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of scripts wake up in the middle of the night
every night,
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and go out and index these files.
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Now remember all of this was just file listings.
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It's not like Google, it's not like
a search engine would be today,
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it is just... filenames. All it was, was filenames.
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And so what it would do
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was it would go out every night,
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list all the filenames in all the repositories,
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and allow you to search lists of filenames.
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And I only used it for myself!
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I only used it, um, uh, for my own personal use.
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Um, and at one point my boss,
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who was also a student, a grad student at the University,
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let Peter Deutsch let it be known that, um,
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somebody was asking for, you know,
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could they, could somebody tell them where, um,
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y'know, a particular piece of software was.
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And, uh, uh, we, um, uh... we, you know,
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he came and asked me,
he knew we had this database
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and he came and asked me if I could help out.
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And I gave it to him, and if, y'know,
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half a sec- half a minute later I had the information,
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and so he put this posting online, and, umm.
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People then started asking,
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"Well, can you find this for me?"
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And, you know, all these manual requests!
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Basically - either through email, or UseNet postings -
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- which is what we were using at the time -
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we thought, well, this is silly,
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there's no point doing these things manually
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when we can just allow people access
to the database itself.
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And in a moment of insanity,
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we had to come up with a name for it,
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and I said, "Okay, well, let's just call it ARCHI-E,"
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which is "ARCHIVE" without the V
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And, ah, and within about three or four months
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we were consuming about half
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of all of the traffic to eastern Canada
[where McGill University is]
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as this search engine became - as people, y'know -
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- word of mouth -
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you know, people who know about Archie
00:13:08.038 --> 00:13:11.173
are generally people of a certain age...
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...I won't mention what that age is, but
00:13:13.308 --> 00:13:17.140
it's generally people who were in university
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or working on the internet, so it would have been
00:13:19.539 --> 00:13:20.837
so it would have been research people,
00:13:20.837 --> 00:13:23.729
people in academia in the early nineties.
00:13:23.729 --> 00:13:28.827
So Archie lasted for about, uh,
[hems and haws]
00:13:28.827 --> 00:13:31.370
Five years. Four or five years.
00:13:31.370 --> 00:13:34.510
And, um, it only indexed FTP archives.
00:13:34.510 --> 00:13:36.836
It never indexed the web.
00:13:36.836 --> 00:13:40.192
Now, I went on, as Archie became popular,
00:13:40.192 --> 00:13:43.308
and I got more involved in the standards process
00:13:43.308 --> 00:13:44.140
and that kind of stuff,
00:13:44.140 --> 00:13:47.170
I worked, uh, fairly closely with Tim Berners-Lee
00:13:47.170 --> 00:13:49.836
to, uh, to standardize - for example,
00:13:49.836 --> 00:13:52.063
I did the - I ran the committee
00:13:52.063 --> 00:13:54.579
at the standard-setting body for the internet,
00:13:54.579 --> 00:13:56.507
which is the IETF
[Internet Engineering Task Force]
00:13:56.507 --> 00:13:58.571
to standardize URLs.
00:13:58.571 --> 00:14:00.107
Because Tim had come up with
00:14:00.107 --> 00:14:02.546
a set of rules for URLS,
00:14:02.546 --> 00:14:04.803
and as we looked at expanding that
00:14:04.803 --> 00:14:07.539
to a larger range of resources,
00:14:07.539 --> 00:14:10.369
we realized that those rules did not cover
00:14:10.369 --> 00:14:11.939
all of the cases.
00:14:11.939 --> 00:14:14.706
So, we worked, for, uh - Tim brought the,
00:14:14.706 --> 00:14:17.033
the specification, his original specification,
00:14:17.033 --> 00:14:20.601
to the group, and we worked on it for,
00:14:20.601 --> 00:14:22.971
I don't remember, nine months to a year or so,
00:14:22.971 --> 00:14:25.067
to come up with a standard for URLs.
00:14:25.067 --> 00:14:26.706
So all of those URLs that we use,
00:14:26.706 --> 00:14:28.233
day in and day out,
00:14:28.233 --> 00:14:30.339
were, were standardized as a result
00:14:30.339 --> 00:14:31.433
of that committee.
00:14:31.433 --> 00:14:35.014
So, it was, um, it was a really exciting time,
00:14:35.014 --> 00:14:38.540
it was a time of, y'know - the question I always get
00:14:38.540 --> 00:14:41.267
is why didn't make a billion dollars off of it?
00:14:41.267 --> 00:14:42.707
And I keep reminding people that
00:14:42.707 --> 00:14:45.263
most of the people who were pioneers -
00:14:45.263 --> 00:14:48.202
with the exception of Marc Andreessen
[who co-founded Netscape]
00:14:48.202 --> 00:14:54.661
uhm, didn't make a whole lot of money off of these, these original things.
00:14:54.661 --> 00:14:58.573
We were working in an environment which, uh,
00:14:58.573 --> 00:15:02.633
put a premium on getting the technology out there
00:15:02.633 --> 00:15:05.730
making it as widely available as possible -
00:15:05.730 --> 00:15:08.340
Tim's big coup with CERN,
[European Organization for Nuclear Research]
00:15:08.340 --> 00:15:12.151
which is the organization that he worked for
when he first developed the web ,
00:15:12.151 --> 00:15:17.938
was to get CERN to put, um, the web software
00:15:17.938 --> 00:15:20.708
that he had created into the public domain.
00:15:20.708 --> 00:15:22.308
So it wasn't even his to give away,
00:15:22.308 --> 00:15:24.771
it was CERN's property.
00:15:24.771 --> 00:15:28.723
As an employee [of CERN],
[Tim's work] would actually belong to CERN.
00:15:28.723 --> 00:15:36.041
Uh. He, he actually convinced them
to put it in the public domain
00:15:36.041 --> 00:15:38.419
and that's what really, uh, y'know
00:15:38.419 --> 00:15:41.266
set [amends] lit a fire under the whole thing.
00:15:41.266 --> 00:15:46.203
At the time, the philosophy behind it
00:15:46.203 --> 00:15:47.906
was really, "Let's get this out there,
00:15:47.906 --> 00:15:49.067
"..this is a brave new world,"
00:15:49.067 --> 00:15:52.330
"..we don't know what all of this
technology's gonna be used for!"
00:15:52.330 --> 00:15:54.174
I don't think any of us - including Tim -
00:15:54.174 --> 00:15:56.266
imagined what it would become.
00:15:56.266 --> 00:16:00.139
Y'know, he, he always had a much grander vision of it
00:16:00.139 --> 00:16:02.170
but I don't - I can guarantee you -
00:16:02.170 --> 00:16:05.002
I've spent many, many, many, many an hour
00:16:05.002 --> 00:16:07.190
with drinks, in bars, drinking with Tim,
00:16:07.190 --> 00:16:09.971
and I can guarantee you that he did not
00:16:09.971 --> 00:16:12.236
- Sir Tim, by the way, Sir Tim -
00:16:12.236 --> 00:16:17.203
Um. I should - y'know, he even, he,
00:16:17.203 --> 00:16:19.941
I don't think, had any idea that it would basically
00:16:19.941 --> 00:16:21.002
take over the world.
00:16:21.002 --> 00:16:23.096
and half the world's population would be using
00:16:23.096 --> 00:16:25.221
the system that he created, twenty years later.
00:16:25.221 --> 00:16:27.336
[corrects himself] Twenty-five years later.
00:16:29.276 --> 00:16:30.691
Ellery: Thank you so much.
00:16:30.691 --> 00:16:34.433
Ellery: I mean, so, speaking of which, yeah,
00:16:34.433 --> 00:16:41.639
it has changed, and, I guess, [chuckles], taken over, in a way,
00:16:41.639 --> 00:16:45.666
um, that we, I'm sure, wouldn't have expected.
00:16:45.666 --> 00:16:51.682
I wanted to now move to Josh and Renata,
00:16:51.682 --> 00:16:54.521
who are both [something falls to the floor]
00:16:54.521 --> 00:16:57.139
very [she looks at the fallen object, winces]
00:16:57.139 --> 00:17:03.369
committed, involved leaders in what has now
00:17:03.369 --> 00:17:08.467
become a global effort to - I mean,
00:17:08.467 --> 00:17:09.580
the way that we're sort of putting it
00:17:09.580 --> 00:17:10.867
is "save the internet"
00:17:10.867 --> 00:17:13.908
or, preserve and protect the openness
00:17:13.908 --> 00:17:21.233
and all of the rights to free expression, access, um,
00:17:21.233 --> 00:17:27.095
and also privacy, that we all feel are embedded
00:17:27.095 --> 00:17:29.740
actually, in the way that it was built.
00:17:29.740 --> 00:17:33.338
So, Josh, I wondered if you could explain to us
00:17:33.338 --> 00:17:37.957
really briefly what your role is in your organization
00:17:37.957 --> 00:17:41.706
and then also, um, tell us about
00:17:41.706 --> 00:17:46.508
the Web We Want campaign, and explain, y'know,
00:17:46.508 --> 00:17:50.854
how you think this rights movement is shaping up
00:17:50.854 --> 00:17:54.771
and if you could kind of link it with everything that
00:17:54.771 --> 00:17:56.467
Alan just laid out for us,
00:17:56.467 --> 00:17:58.522
that would be really wonderful.
00:17:58.522 --> 00:17:59.538
Josh Levy: I'll do my best.
00:17:59.538 --> 00:18:01.742
Josh: So, my name is Josh Levy,
00:18:01.742 --> 00:18:03.307
Josh: I'm from Free Press,
00:18:03.307 --> 00:18:06.530
we're a U.S.-based organization,
00:18:06.530 --> 00:18:11.347
we advocate for better technology and media policy
00:18:11.347 --> 00:18:14.013
that allows for an open internet,
00:18:14.013 --> 00:18:16.938
for better representation of people in the media,
00:18:16.938 --> 00:18:19.947
including in, in media that's online,
00:18:19.947 --> 00:18:23.402
and for open access to information.
00:18:23.402 --> 00:18:26.371
And this issue that we're talking about -
00:18:26.371 --> 00:18:27.834
the anniversary of the web -
00:18:27.834 --> 00:18:30.173
is really central to our work,
00:18:30.173 --> 00:18:32.571
because we've been fighting, for example,
00:18:32.571 --> 00:18:38.770
to pass strong Net Neutrality policies
here in the U.S. for years.
00:18:38.770 --> 00:18:42.107
Basically ever since the issue first came up,
in the mid-2000s,
00:18:42.107 --> 00:18:44.234
when we saw big internet service providers
00:18:44.234 --> 00:18:48.200
blocking traffic coming from certain destinations.
00:18:48.200 --> 00:18:50.139
And that fight is ongoing.
00:18:50.139 --> 00:18:52.258
The FCC, the Federal Communications Commission here in the U.S.,
00:18:52.258 --> 00:18:56.938
which is charged with overseeing communications and technology policy,
00:18:56.938 --> 00:18:59.036
passed rules in 2010
00:18:59.036 --> 00:19:01.402
that were intended to protect Net Neutrality
00:19:01.402 --> 00:19:05.526
but were passed in a way that we knew
wasn't gonna hold up in court.
00:19:05.526 --> 00:19:08.553
And we were - unfortunately,
00:19:08.553 --> 00:19:11.800
we saw that happen earlier this year,
00:19:11.800 --> 00:19:14.729
when a court in Washington, D.C.,
threw out those rules,
00:19:14.729 --> 00:19:18.540
effectively throwing out any Net Neutrality
protections that people have.
00:19:18.540 --> 00:19:21.937
And so this gets back to what Jeremy was saying
00:19:21.937 --> 00:19:23.677
the "internet" versus the "Web," right?
00:19:23.677 --> 00:19:25.541
So when we're talking about Net Neutrality,
00:19:25.541 --> 00:19:27.032
which I hope a lot of people have heard of,
00:19:27.032 --> 00:19:31.610
this concept that we should be able to access any information that we want online
00:19:31.610 --> 00:19:37.539
without anybody getting in the way, whether that's a big company or the government -
00:19:37.539 --> 00:19:43.585
that is, essentially, that's a policy that applies to the internet:
00:19:43.585 --> 00:19:46.899
to the ways in which all of our computers
connect to each other.
00:19:46.899 --> 00:19:50.638
And we have this basic understanding
that the internet should be free and open,
00:19:50.638 --> 00:19:53.434
meaning that my computer should be able to connect
00:19:53.434 --> 00:19:55.769
to yours in this global network of computers
00:19:55.769 --> 00:19:58.942
without any entity inspecting the traffic,
00:19:58.942 --> 00:20:01.267
trying to understand what you're trying to access,
00:20:01.267 --> 00:20:03.073
and, based on that understanding, block it.
00:20:03.073 --> 00:20:06.040
So if it doesn't like the video you're watching,
[it would be] slowing it down;
00:20:06.040 --> 00:20:08.971
or, if it doesn't like the application you're using, blocking it -
00:20:08.971 --> 00:20:11.140
- that, that should be totally unacceptable.
00:20:11.140 --> 00:20:14.651
We should be able to connect to whatever we want in whatever way we want.
00:20:14.651 --> 00:20:16.342
And that includes using the Web, right?
00:20:16.342 --> 00:20:20.655
So the Web is basically an application that rides over the internet.
00:20:20.655 --> 00:20:22.940
The internet's this global network,
00:20:22.940 --> 00:20:25.836
the Web is just one application that
uses that global network.
00:20:25.836 --> 00:20:28.540
And so it's essential -
Net Neutrality is essential to using the web,
00:20:28.540 --> 00:20:30.515
because as we've seen today,
00:20:30.515 --> 00:20:33.231
using the web is so essential to all of our lives
00:20:33.231 --> 00:20:39.740
and big companies, and governments, have so much power over it that they can block all kinds of things:
00:20:39.740 --> 00:20:43.713
political speech, videos that we wanna watch, pictures of cats, et cetera.
00:20:43.713 --> 00:20:46.404
So. Um, anyway, so that's what Free Press is doing,
00:20:46.404 --> 00:20:49.664
in large part, trying to protect
that notion of Net Neutrality.
00:20:49.664 --> 00:20:53.779
And out of that fight came a number of campaigns,
00:20:53.779 --> 00:20:55.958
including the campaign to stop SOPA
[Stop Online Piracy Act]
00:20:55.958 --> 00:20:59.337
- which was the bad copyright bill a couple years ago here in the U.S. -
00:20:59.337 --> 00:21:01.521
and out of that came a realization, I think,
00:21:01.521 --> 00:21:02.797
here in the U.S. but [also] around the world,
00:21:02.797 --> 00:21:05.557
that we all needed to kind of talk to each other a little bit more,
00:21:05.557 --> 00:21:09.509
those of us who have been advocating for a free and open internet for a long time.
00:21:09.509 --> 00:21:10.906
And so we started doing that:
00:21:10.906 --> 00:21:14.170
Free Press led the development the drafting of
00:21:14.170 --> 00:21:16.282
something called the
"Declaration of Internet Freedom"
00:21:16.282 --> 00:21:21.822
which was a simple statement of principles
about our right to access information online.
00:21:21.822 --> 00:21:26.907
And out of that came a really fruitful relationship with Tim Berners-Lee's organization,
00:21:26.907 --> 00:21:29.329
- the World Wide Web Foundation -
00:21:29.329 --> 00:21:33.649
and we discussed ways in which we could move that effort forward,
00:21:33.649 --> 00:21:35.713
this Declaration effort,
00:21:35.713 --> 00:21:40.170
to involve more groups around the world,
more people around the world,
00:21:40.170 --> 00:21:44.144
and to guarantee that we all have
access to information
00:21:44.144 --> 00:21:47.278
and that that access, and the principles behind it,
00:21:47.278 --> 00:21:52.390
are not the domain of any one country,
or any one group of individuals.
00:21:52.390 --> 00:21:55.575
So, out of that came this great project,
the Web We Want,
00:21:55.575 --> 00:21:57.621
which Renata's gonna tell you more about.
00:21:57.621 --> 00:21:59.665
which is seeking to do just that:
00:21:59.665 --> 00:22:05.468
to pass laws, around the world, that will protect people's right to access the internet
00:22:05.468 --> 00:22:09.648
and to access content on the Web
without anybody getting in the way,
00:22:09.648 --> 00:22:14.677
and, uh, it's building steam very, very quickly:
00:22:14.677 --> 00:22:18.035
we are working with countries around the world to develop their own set of principles
00:22:18.035 --> 00:22:20.107
regarding the web and our rights on it,
00:22:20.107 --> 00:22:26.068
and organizing lots and lots of organizations that are really excited about getting involved in this effort
00:22:26.068 --> 00:22:32.285
and our dream of uniting groups who are all fighting the same fight but in different parts of the world
00:22:32.285 --> 00:22:33.939
is kind of coming to life.
00:22:33.939 --> 00:22:36.090
So, I'll let Renata tell you more about that.
00:22:36.090 --> 00:22:38.241
[Caveat: Renata is not a native English speaker, so verbatim transcription of her speech doesn't always make perfect sense.]
00:22:38.241 --> 00:22:40.393
Renata Avila: Eum, hello everyone, everybody,
00:22:40.393 --> 00:22:42.382
it's really good to be here?
[she tends to uptalk]
00:22:42.382 --> 00:22:44.566
Renata: Ah, so: the Web We Want.
00:22:44.566 --> 00:22:50.711
The Web We Want is a coalition of
[gestures as she searches for words]
00:22:50.711 --> 00:22:54.128
very important groups of organizations
from civil society
00:22:54.128 --> 00:22:57.072
I will mention of them:
00:22:57.072 --> 00:22:59.814
Access, that many of us are familiar with;
[AccessNow.org]
00:22:59.814 --> 00:23:01.914
APC;
[Association for Progressive Communications]
00:23:01.914 --> 00:23:04.805
Free Press, from the U.S.;
00:23:04.805 --> 00:23:10.085
7iber, in Jordan;
the Open Source Association, in Jordan as well;
00:23:10.085 --> 00:23:12.916
[ums and ers]
00:23:12.916 --> 00:23:20.521
Consumers International; Article 19;
Fundação Getulio Vargas, in Brazil;
00:23:20.521 --> 00:23:25.227
IT for Change, in India;
Public Knowledge, in the U.S.;
00:23:25.227 --> 00:23:30.879
and we, we have a - we got the confirmation that Open Knowledge Foundation,
00:23:30.879 --> 00:23:35.793
which has affiliates all over the world,
will join as well.
00:23:35.793 --> 00:23:37.683
So, basically, the campaign...
00:23:37.683 --> 00:23:40.260
..what we are trying to achieve here
00:23:40.260 --> 00:23:43.084
is to move from the reactions,
00:23:43.084 --> 00:23:46.483
the constant reactions that
the civil society/ we have,
00:23:46.483 --> 00:23:47.813
to a proactive approach.
00:23:47.813 --> 00:23:52.997
To have a positive agenda, to have the safe first, in different countries.
00:23:52.997 --> 00:23:55.190
And also globally.
00:23:55.190 --> 00:23:59.806
And what happens is usually that we come together last minute -
00:23:59.806 --> 00:24:03.725
we react to bad legislation being proposed,
00:24:03.725 --> 00:24:13.690
by either specific groups of interest, or a very
creative but not so well informed legislator...
00:24:13.690 --> 00:24:17.356
And so, in the last, let's say, five years,
00:24:17.356 --> 00:24:22.014
we have seen so many mobilizations against, against, against.
00:24:22.014 --> 00:24:27.252
So we think that yes, it's good to have a reaction to bad legislation,
00:24:27.252 --> 00:24:31.483
but it's much more effective to have a proposal coming from civil society.
00:24:31.483 --> 00:24:34.945
And not only - like, civil society understood as a -
00:24:34.945 --> 00:24:40.283
a more extended way as we usually use it in internet governance -
00:24:40.283 --> 00:24:45.554
but civil society involving everyone
in a fight for our rights.
00:24:45.554 --> 00:24:53.266
And so we have different activities and
different actions to achieve that.
00:24:53.266 --> 00:24:59.967
The first would be intense work in
specific countries where we [gestures]
00:24:59.967 --> 00:25:04.682
together, all the advisory committee,
so that there's something going on,
00:25:04.682 --> 00:25:08.878
some movement in civil society,
and there's some action there.
00:25:08.878 --> 00:25:16.546
So, the list of the countries that we have decided will be like the first "grant-ees"
00:25:16.546 --> 00:25:22.479
of um, more stronger support from the punt, uh, the, the, where we want manages...? will be:
00:25:22.479 --> 00:25:32.483
Japan, Indonesia, Philippines, India, Bangladesh, Brazil, Ecuador, the U.K., Tunisia, Nigeria, Kenya...
00:25:32.483 --> 00:25:34.084
...and South Africa.
00:25:34.084 --> 00:25:38.265
So, as you see, it's mostly
countries of the global south.
00:25:38.265 --> 00:25:42.679
Also the U.K., because we saw an opportunity there,
00:25:42.679 --> 00:25:47.642
and we also saw a regression of rights.
00:25:47.642 --> 00:25:52.351
It is very interesting to see how the
deterioration of rights in a country -
00:25:52.351 --> 00:25:54.363
- even in a democratic country -
00:25:54.363 --> 00:25:56.585
in the last ten years, has been very extreme.
00:25:56.585 --> 00:26:01.375
And this is really affecting the region.
00:26:01.375 --> 00:26:04.470
Apart from this intense work that we are planning to do,
00:26:04.470 --> 00:26:08.756
having national dialogues in these countries I informed you of,
00:26:08.756 --> 00:26:15.680
we have also - we are launching,
on the 21st of March, a mini-grant round.
00:26:15.680 --> 00:26:18.274
The mini-grants are for everyone to apply,
00:26:18.274 --> 00:26:21.118
so you don't need to be an NGO,
[Non-Governmental Organization]
00:26:21.118 --> 00:26:24.853
you don't need to be an expert to apply for these grants.
00:26:24.853 --> 00:26:26.889
What we want is normal people -
00:26:26.889 --> 00:26:29.783
- artists, musicians, everyone -
00:26:29.783 --> 00:26:35.812
to be involved in this and to, eh, [unintelligible] to celebrate, to party for the Web!
00:26:35.812 --> 00:26:38.679
But at the same time that we celebrate the Web,
00:26:38.679 --> 00:26:41.546
we start a conversation on what is the web we want?
00:26:41.546 --> 00:26:44.414
What is - [struggles for words]
00:26:44.414 --> 00:26:52.731
- which values, which form we want, which way we want to protect the Web in our countries.
00:26:52.731 --> 00:26:54.348
The free and open Web.
00:26:54.348 --> 00:27:02.215
And so it can be something as simple as
a screening in a public space?
00:27:02.215 --> 00:27:07.444
It can be more elaborate,
like a talk at your local library?
00:27:07.444 --> 00:27:09.265
It can be anything you want,
00:27:09.265 --> 00:27:12.846
it can be even a sculpture in the middle of a city.
00:27:12.846 --> 00:27:17.317
ah, telling people what the Web
represents [means] to you.
00:27:17.317 --> 00:27:22.597
But also, we know that we cannot abandon
those fighting "against."
00:27:22.597 --> 00:27:27.276
So we have rapid response grants.
00:27:27.276 --> 00:27:30.684
And these rapid response grants are for, eh -
00:27:30.684 --> 00:27:35.248
we, we have identified that sometimes to make something happen,
00:27:35.248 --> 00:27:36.532
you need some resources.
00:27:36.532 --> 00:27:38.347
Especially in some countries in the global south.
00:27:38.347 --> 00:27:43.014
So. For example, ehh, think about
a very bad surveillance law,
00:27:43.014 --> 00:27:45.708
about to be passed in, oh, Nicaragua.
00:27:45.708 --> 00:27:48.379
So, this rapid response -
00:27:48.379 --> 00:27:50.584
- which will be open during the whole year -
00:27:50.584 --> 00:27:55.147
- will allow activists to say, "Hey, listen.
This very bad thing is happening..."
00:27:55.147 --> 00:27:59.385
"..and we think that if we gather a group of people together..."
00:27:59.385 --> 00:28:05.013
"..and we print, uh, leaflets, and we make a short video about that..."
00:28:05.013 --> 00:28:10.383
"..we have a good chance to shift the opinions to our side..."
00:28:10.383 --> 00:28:11.681
"..the side of right."
00:28:11.681 --> 00:28:14.087
And so that will be open as well.
00:28:14.087 --> 00:28:20.999
that will be open on the 21st of March, and remain open the whole year.
00:28:20.999 --> 00:28:27.881
And what we will achieve at the end of the year is a very interesting collection of experiences.
00:28:27.881 --> 00:28:31.083
We will see that - [finds her words]
00:28:31.083 --> 00:28:35.416
what is the Web people want,
in the specific countries,
00:28:35.416 --> 00:28:38.982
with more intense follow-up
mechanism and dialogue.
00:28:38.982 --> 00:28:42.823
We will also see which techniques are
the best for rapid response
00:28:42.823 --> 00:28:45.914
when there's a threat to the open internet.
00:28:45.914 --> 00:28:50.717
by the collection of experiences from the rapid response grants.
00:28:50.717 --> 00:28:58.204
And also we will learn from ways to engage the broader public in our topics and in our issues.
00:28:58.204 --> 00:29:04.829
So I am very hopeful that especially
artists, or very creative activists,
00:29:04.829 --> 00:29:07.914
will find ways to engage the broader public.
00:29:07.914 --> 00:29:10.916
Because we need - this is ours.
00:29:10.916 --> 00:29:15.452
The future of [the open internet]
depends on us preserving it.
00:29:15.452 --> 00:29:22.582
And the more people invited to this fight,
the stronger we get.
00:29:22.582 --> 00:29:34.041
At last, I will... I would like to invite everyone to be engaged the way that you can engage.
00:29:34.041 --> 00:29:37.083
And to apply for these grants!
00:29:37.083 --> 00:29:42.317
But not only to apply for these grants -
also, to make things your own.
00:29:42.317 --> 00:29:47.148
If you want to write an article,
if you are an expert on specific topics,
00:29:47.148 --> 00:29:50.982
please write articles,
please share your knowledge with people,
00:29:50.982 --> 00:29:54.207
and please engage, and don't be apathetic.
00:29:54.207 --> 00:29:58.214
Because the Web offers us -
00:29:58.214 --> 00:29:59.513
- and the internet offers us -
00:29:59.513 --> 00:30:02.513
- this opportunity to communicate and connect beyond borders,
00:30:02.513 --> 00:30:08.378
and I think that, slowly, we are building this platform -
00:30:08.378 --> 00:30:13.243
- which is not a website but is a platform made of [amends her description] collective –
00:30:13.243 --> 00:30:22.546
- that is ready to jump and to take actions to save the web any moment that it is under threat.
00:30:22.546 --> 00:30:26.947
So. Yes. That's it.
00:30:26.947 --> 00:30:29.482
Ellery [laughs]: Thanks.
00:30:29.482 --> 00:30:32.314
Ellery: It's really - I think it's great to sort of,
to have that out there,
00:30:32.314 --> 00:30:36.803
for people to understand all the ways
that they can get involved.
00:30:36.803 --> 00:30:43.685
One thing I - so, in thinking about how can we make a little show today that would celebrate the web,
00:30:43.685 --> 00:30:47.579
I couldn't help but think about Global Voices,
00:30:47.579 --> 00:30:50.808
because that's what brings us all together here,
00:30:50.808 --> 00:30:55.388
and, I think that our community, in so many ways -
00:30:55.388 --> 00:30:59.346
I mean, we couldn't exist, wouldn't exist,
without the Web,
00:30:59.346 --> 00:31:05.314
but there are also so many particular attributes of it,
00:31:05.314 --> 00:31:08.011
when it comes to access and openness,
00:31:08.011 --> 00:31:10.348
that allow us to do all the things that we do,
00:31:10.348 --> 00:31:13.548
like, including this hangout, right now.
00:31:13.548 --> 00:31:16.304
Um. So I wanted to ask -
00:31:16.304 --> 00:31:17.830
- although we're really short on time,
00:31:17.830 --> 00:31:21.426
so I'm gonna have to ask you to be super brief, but -
00:31:21.426 --> 00:31:23.884
Jer, you, I kind of, I said, is there...
00:31:23.884 --> 00:31:29.946
...could you talk a little bit about what,
if you look at Global Voices,
00:31:29.946 --> 00:31:34.994
and sort of the way that it's grown up,
um, with the internet -
00:31:34.994 --> 00:31:36.445
- you've been here since the beginning,
00:31:36.445 --> 00:31:40.463
so you can kind of - just, just tell us a bit.
00:31:40.463 --> 00:31:42.619
Jeremy Clark: Okay, well, uh,
00:31:42.619 --> 00:31:47.517
Jeremy: I actually haven't been with
Global Voices since the very beginning,
00:31:47.517 --> 00:31:49.383
but I joined near the start.
00:31:49.383 --> 00:31:51.215
So, maybe you can see on my screen -
00:31:51.215 --> 00:31:54.754
- Global Voices was started actually in 2005, um,
00:31:54.754 --> 00:31:57.482
and one of the great things about the story is that
00:31:57.482 --> 00:32:02.550
it was started quickly and easily by Ethan Zuckerman
00:32:02.550 --> 00:32:06.448
who set up the original site, uh,
00:32:06.448 --> 00:32:09.765
along with Rebecca McKinnon,
who worked on the idea and the content,
00:32:09.765 --> 00:32:14.118
and so, they actually used WordPress, which
is the system we still use today,
00:32:14.118 --> 00:32:18.995
and which is very similar to the Web
in a lot of senses
00:32:18.995 --> 00:32:21.746
because it's a distributed project,
00:32:21.746 --> 00:32:23.514
people all around the world develop it,
00:32:23.514 --> 00:32:25.231
it's open-source, and it's free,
00:32:25.231 --> 00:32:32.082
and it is so not by convenience but very explicit philosophy and they're very active in defending that,
00:32:32.082 --> 00:32:37.270
and also in another way: uh, originally, at the time,
00:32:37.270 --> 00:32:40.352
there was a very popular free software
called Movable Type
00:32:40.352 --> 00:32:42.444
which became commercial,
00:32:42.444 --> 00:32:46.516
and instead of starting to pay for it,
people switched to Wordpress.
00:32:46.516 --> 00:32:48.882
So, this was our original website.
00:32:48.882 --> 00:32:51.615
We later redesigned it several times.
00:32:51.615 --> 00:32:57.652
And over the years, we have grown with WordPress
00:32:57.652 --> 00:33:02.630
to add - take advantage of the new features, and, uh...
00:33:02.630 --> 00:33:05.197
[gestures] - keep running our site.
00:33:05.197 --> 00:33:11.746
And so running our whole infrastructure on this very decentralized open-source model has been
00:33:11.746 --> 00:33:15.961
a really rewarding experience for us,
just as using the Web has.
00:33:15.961 --> 00:33:19.292
And obviously, the, uh, one of the most
interesting things is that
00:33:19.292 --> 00:33:21.561
Global Voices is all about the web.
00:33:21.561 --> 00:33:24.719
Without the Web,
without that decentralized authorship,
00:33:24.719 --> 00:33:25.776
- anyone can write to it -
00:33:25.776 --> 00:33:27.157
there would be no Global Voices.
00:33:27.157 --> 00:33:29.291
Uh, the whole point of Global Voices was to
00:33:29.291 --> 00:33:31.883
recognize that people all over the world
00:33:31.883 --> 00:33:34.335
were taking advantage of the benefits of the Web,
00:33:34.335 --> 00:33:35.982
and create one place where you could find it,
00:33:35.982 --> 00:33:41.864
sort of like Archie was with the pre-Web TelNet days
00:33:41.864 --> 00:33:45.215
a archive of things happening all around -
00:33:45.215 --> 00:33:47.083
- that's what Global Voices did.
00:33:47.083 --> 00:33:50.717
Um. So. Yeah!
00:33:50.717 --> 00:33:52.808
And, y'know, we've tried a lot of different
00:33:52.808 --> 00:33:55.914
infrastructure based around the web over the years;
00:33:55.914 --> 00:33:57.315
uh, we've used Drupal,
00:33:57.315 --> 00:34:00.514
we've used a lot of different online services...
00:34:00.514 --> 00:34:02.045
Obviously, like everyone else,
00:34:02.045 --> 00:34:03.945
the temptation to take advantage of Google's
00:34:03.945 --> 00:34:08.450
free offerings has always been
part of Global Voices' DNA:
00:34:08.450 --> 00:34:09.917
we use Google mailing lists,
00:34:09.917 --> 00:34:13.243
we use all the different things that they make for free
00:34:13.243 --> 00:34:14.951
which is an interesting part of the web,
00:34:14.951 --> 00:34:16.779
because it's not the Web, that's Google,
00:34:16.779 --> 00:34:18.455
just happening to give it away,
00:34:18.455 --> 00:34:20.580
but as a company, they have a tendency
00:34:20.580 --> 00:34:22.683
to follow the spirit of the Web, uh,
00:34:22.683 --> 00:34:26.084
even though they're doing so
for commercial reasons.
00:34:26.084 --> 00:34:27.717
But - yeah!
00:34:27.717 --> 00:34:30.549
That's my very brief summary
00:34:30.549 --> 00:34:31.681
of the history of Global Voices
00:34:31.681 --> 00:34:34.284
and how it parallels the Web!
00:34:34.284 --> 00:34:35.751
Ellery: Thank you!
00:34:35.751 --> 00:34:38.115
Ellery: I'm afraid we're gonna have to wrap up now
00:34:38.115 --> 00:34:41.576
but, just, to do that, I wanted to ask for
00:34:41.576 --> 00:34:44.550
a couple of, kind of, final thoughts...
00:34:44.550 --> 00:34:50.717
...from Alan, and perhaps also Josh, just -
00:34:50.717 --> 00:34:54.146
- Alan, I guess I'm especially interested in
00:34:54.146 --> 00:34:56.578
if there are, kinda, thoughts that you have
00:34:56.578 --> 00:34:59.875
on all of the activism and advocacy
00:34:59.875 --> 00:35:03.883
that's taking place around fundamental rights
on the Internet,
00:35:03.883 --> 00:35:09.016
from your own unique historical perspective.
00:35:09.016 --> 00:35:11.978
And then I wanted to close, um,
00:35:11.978 --> 00:35:17.915
by asking Renata to just tell us a very little bit about Bassel
00:35:17.915 --> 00:35:22.580
since there's also an important anniversary this weekend.
00:35:22.580 --> 00:35:24.513
So, I'm gonna just let you guys go,
00:35:24.513 --> 00:35:27.578
and then we will close out!
00:35:27.578 --> 00:35:30.758
Alan Emtage: Okay, well, y'know,
00:35:30.758 --> 00:35:34.649
Alan: I haven't been involved as an activist
00:35:34.649 --> 00:35:37.249
for, uh, for quite some time now.
00:35:37.249 --> 00:35:41.242
I sort of burnt out after a while! [laughs]
00:35:41.242 --> 00:35:45.978
- flying around the globe, and doing all the stuff that I did in the nineties.
00:35:45.978 --> 00:35:49.385
But I certainly pay a lot of attention to that stuff
00:35:49.385 --> 00:35:52.577
y'know, I'm currently involved in Barbados, right now,
00:35:52.577 --> 00:35:56.813
and it has been really interesting to try and,
00:35:56.813 --> 00:35:57.881
for one example,
00:35:57.881 --> 00:36:01.618
try and access content from the United States
00:36:01.618 --> 00:36:04.208
- entertainment content, that kind of stuff.
00:36:04.208 --> 00:36:06.616
And, I mean, I knew about this stuff in theory,
00:36:06.616 --> 00:36:11.752
but in practice, the antiquated models
00:36:11.752 --> 00:36:17.194
of content distribution
that we're still holding onto
00:36:17.194 --> 00:36:18.548
in this day and age,
00:36:18.548 --> 00:36:22.752
where, you know, geographical boundaries
and national boundaries and that kinda stuff
00:36:22.752 --> 00:36:26.749
are still very much at the center of these
business models.
00:36:26.749 --> 00:36:30.623
Y'know, things like BitTorrent
and that kinda stuff
00:36:30.623 --> 00:36:33.483
are wiping them away,
and they don't even realize it.
00:36:33.483 --> 00:36:37.848
The music industry has seen this happen,
now, for decades -
00:36:37.848 --> 00:36:39.382
Certainly from the activist point of view,
00:36:39.382 --> 00:36:43.748
in terms of keeping the Internet
free and available,
00:36:43.748 --> 00:36:45.515
it's gonna be a real challenge.
00:36:45.515 --> 00:36:48.681
And, I mean, it's such an
important technology now.
00:36:48.681 --> 00:36:53.378
You have things like
the Great Firewall in China...
00:36:53.378 --> 00:36:55.484
You have, you know, Russia, who recently -
00:36:55.484 --> 00:36:57.749
- as of yesterday, today -
00:36:57.749 --> 00:37:06.548
- shutting down, using new laws to shut down access to dissent against Putin...
00:37:06.548 --> 00:37:08.612
They realize the power -
00:37:08.612 --> 00:37:14.417
- Egypt was a real wakeup call for a lot of people in the use of social networking
00:37:14.417 --> 00:37:19.481
to organize and activate people and bring them out onto the streets,
00:37:19.481 --> 00:37:21.977
so governments are scared of this technology
00:37:21.977 --> 00:37:24.379
and it's important that we work really hard
00:37:24.379 --> 00:37:26.011
to keep it as free as it is,
00:37:26.011 --> 00:37:27.483
because they realize that, you know,
00:37:27.483 --> 00:37:30.583
information - how you control the information, you control the people.
00:37:30.583 --> 00:37:34.448
So, um, I think it is extraordinarily important
00:37:34.448 --> 00:37:36.946
that people like Josh [unintelligible]
00:37:36.946 --> 00:37:40.946
continue to work very hard
to stop the bad laws,
00:37:40.946 --> 00:37:43.116
to inform the legislators -
00:37:43.116 --> 00:37:44.810
- some of them are just doing it out of ignorance!
00:37:44.810 --> 00:37:45.417
I mean, you know,
00:37:45.417 --> 00:37:49.114
"Never ascribe to malice what can be ascribed to incompetence."
00:37:49.114 --> 00:37:51.207
And, uh, a lot of these people are just
00:37:51.207 --> 00:37:53.185
incompetent, not malicious.
00:37:53.185 --> 00:37:56.615
But there are people who are malicious,
as well [laughing a bit]
00:37:56.615 --> 00:37:58.247
so we have to deal with them as well.
00:37:58.247 --> 00:38:00.516
But, um, you know, it's vitally important
00:38:00.516 --> 00:38:04.072
because, uh, nowadays, these technologies
00:38:04.072 --> 00:38:05.948
really sit at the core of our culture
00:38:05.948 --> 00:38:07.749
and the way that we
communicate with one another.
00:38:07.749 --> 00:38:12.142
[long silence]
00:38:12.142 --> 00:38:14.682
Josh [wondering if he should speak next]: ...Me?
00:38:14.682 --> 00:38:16.482
[Josh laughs silently]
00:38:16.482 --> 00:38:18.913
Josh: I'll just add one thing real quickly -
00:38:18.913 --> 00:38:20.945
- I think that we're at an interesting moment
00:38:20.945 --> 00:38:28.347
where so many of us acknowledge the importance of the Internet and the Web,
00:38:28.347 --> 00:38:33.616
and the impact that it's had on every aspect of our culture,
00:38:33.616 --> 00:38:34.766
and because of that,
00:38:34.766 --> 00:38:41.245
I think we as the users of the Web,
and of the Internet, have a duty
00:38:41.245 --> 00:38:49.981
to hold governments around the world and companies around the world accountable
00:38:49.981 --> 00:38:54.882
and to urge them and pressure them
00:38:54.882 --> 00:39:01.931
to protect the openness that lies at the core of this entire thing.
00:39:01.931 --> 00:39:04.689
And to protect, not just openness, but
00:39:04.689 --> 00:39:06.926
also this notion of a Commons.
00:39:06.926 --> 00:39:10.998
That's - in our opinion - quickly being lost.
00:39:10.998 --> 00:39:17.465
This notion that the Internet, and the Web,
are publicly owned,
00:39:17.465 --> 00:39:20.897
and that the activity that takes place on them
00:39:20.897 --> 00:39:22.986
is activity that we undertake
00:39:22.986 --> 00:39:25.280
and that is ours.
00:39:25.280 --> 00:39:30.047
And that is not the domain of the big companies' platforms.
00:39:30.047 --> 00:39:31.420
We undertake the activity.
00:39:31.420 --> 00:39:33.483
So, for example,
00:39:33.483 --> 00:39:35.626
Google has allowed us to do a lot of things.
00:39:35.626 --> 00:39:39.455
Google allows us to find a lot of information extremely quickly,
00:39:39.455 --> 00:39:41.849
to connect to each other extremely well,
00:39:41.849 --> 00:39:43.933
to use Google Hangouts as we're doing right now,
00:39:43.933 --> 00:39:47.384
but Google's doing all of this at the -
00:39:47.384 --> 00:39:51.383
- while mining the data that we give it,
selling off that data -
00:39:51.383 --> 00:39:55.378
- that data is also creating this historical record
00:39:55.378 --> 00:39:57.780
of everything that we search for
and say online,
00:39:57.780 --> 00:39:59.512
which as we know,
can be exploited by governments,
00:39:59.512 --> 00:40:00.953
- but also by companies -
00:40:00.953 --> 00:40:03.994
and so I think it's time for us to think about that relationship
00:40:03.994 --> 00:40:05.656
between us and these big companies,
00:40:05.656 --> 00:40:10.487
which is becoming the central part of our online experience.
00:40:10.487 --> 00:40:13.355
And how can we decentralize that?
00:40:13.355 --> 00:40:17.173
How can we decouple ourselves from these giant companies
00:40:17.173 --> 00:40:18.907
and take back a portion of the Web
00:40:18.907 --> 00:40:22.473
so that we own this experience in a deeper way
00:40:22.473 --> 00:40:26.256
and it's not experienced as purely commercial,
00:40:26.256 --> 00:40:28.911
a commercial transaction between us an a big company.
00:40:28.911 --> 00:40:30.593
So that's a big question,
00:40:30.593 --> 00:40:32.524
and it's going to take years to unravel it, to find solutions,
00:40:32.524 --> 00:40:35.594
but we're hoping that we can start that conversation now.
00:40:35.594 --> 00:40:42.764
[long silence]
00:40:42.764 --> 00:40:49.187
Renata: Well, now I will go back to something that Jeremy said.
00:40:49.187 --> 00:40:53.937
It was about him being stopped in the border, the Canadian border
00:40:53.937 --> 00:40:56.266
because of "hacker."
00:40:56.266 --> 00:40:59.846
And what I want to talk about is that,
00:40:59.846 --> 00:41:01.547
at the end of the day, there's, ah -
00:41:01.547 --> 00:41:06.557
we reduce the number of people who can actually,
00:41:06.557 --> 00:41:10.024
in some countries, not control the internet,
00:41:10.024 --> 00:41:17.256
but understand the infrastructure, and use it in a way that they can increase public good.
00:41:17.256 --> 00:41:20.098
and they can help people in extreme situations.
00:41:20.098 --> 00:41:25.435
And one of these people is my friend
Bassel Khartabil -
00:41:25.435 --> 00:41:29.465
[fondly] Bassel, Bassel is the internet.
Basically.
00:41:29.465 --> 00:41:34.407
Basel is a Palestinian-Syrian activist,
00:41:34.407 --> 00:41:36.711
he's an activist of Greek culture,
00:41:36.711 --> 00:41:38.430
and he's a global citizen, you know?
00:41:38.430 --> 00:41:42.224
He's not super nationalistic, he, he,
00:41:42.224 --> 00:41:44.225
he has traveled a lot, extensively,
00:41:44.225 --> 00:41:46.717
he has friends all over the world,
00:41:46.717 --> 00:41:52.319
and he likes to spend time learning how things work, how things operate,
00:41:52.319 --> 00:41:55.531
so he's very good with computers -
00:41:55.531 --> 00:42:02.421
he learned himself how to code,
thanks to his uncle -
00:42:02.421 --> 00:42:05.725
He knows a lot about hardware as well,
00:42:05.725 --> 00:42:09.444
and he knows a lot about
Greek culture and design.
00:42:09.444 --> 00:42:16.027
And so during his travels he saw all these wonderful things happening
00:42:16.027 --> 00:42:18.413
and so he decided, with a group of friends,
00:42:18.413 --> 00:42:21.252
to create a hackerspace in Damascus
00:42:21.252 --> 00:42:23.256
I don't know how translation works,
00:42:23.256 --> 00:42:31.596
but apparently "hacker-space" was a very scary word for the Syrian intelligence services,
00:42:31.596 --> 00:42:34.118
and they saw it as a threat -
00:42:34.118 --> 00:42:40.461
like, people in power view technology as a threat to their plan to control people.
00:42:40.461 --> 00:42:46.358
So on the 15th of December, two years ago,
00:42:46.358 --> 00:42:48.800
the hackerspace was raided...
00:42:48.800 --> 00:42:50.792
All the computers were taken away,
00:42:50.792 --> 00:42:52.616
all the things were dismantled -
00:42:52.616 --> 00:42:58.769
- can you imagine one of these Syrian police looking at the 3D printer, oh my god,
00:42:58.769 --> 00:43:02.808
[derisively] probably thought they were like nuclear weapons, or something like that -
00:43:02.808 --> 00:43:07.340
and, sadly, he has been away, he has been in prison.
00:43:07.340 --> 00:43:14.826
He was in a very, very bad prison, subject to torture treatment.
00:43:14.826 --> 00:43:19.220
But then he was - thanks to the advocacy of thousands of people,
00:43:19.220 --> 00:43:23.502
he was re-transferred back to the civilian prison.
00:43:23.502 --> 00:43:29.468
Which, you can imagine, how, even if it's a civilian prison, how this prison looks like.
00:43:29.468 --> 00:43:36.719
I mean, it is... the conditions get bad to worse as time goes by,
00:43:36.719 --> 00:43:40.985
as the Syrian government runs out of resources.
00:43:40.985 --> 00:43:46.533
The last people they will feed, the last people they will take care of, are the prisoners.
00:43:46.533 --> 00:43:50.976
On top of that, Bassel, he has a health condition...
00:43:50.976 --> 00:43:52.902
It is all really sad.
00:43:52.902 --> 00:43:58.539
But, what we have been trying to do during these two years
00:43:58.539 --> 00:44:00.263
is to keep him peaceful.
00:44:00.263 --> 00:44:03.540
And to keep reminding him that we haven't forgotten
00:44:03.540 --> 00:44:08.724
and to keep reminding him that we embrace the values that he embraces.
00:44:08.724 --> 00:44:13.115
And we support the causes that he supports.
00:44:13.115 --> 00:44:19.510
So, instead of, you know, just being sad,
and doing nothing,
00:44:19.510 --> 00:44:21.631
we are a doing a Free Bassel Day.
00:44:21.631 --> 00:44:23.094
On the 15th of March.
00:44:23.094 --> 00:44:25.797
Well, some things are already starting today!
00:44:25.797 --> 00:44:29.283
And what we want is, ah, joint action -
00:44:29.283 --> 00:44:34.107
- doing things, doing anything you can do to remember Bassel.
00:44:34.107 --> 00:44:37.596
And not only Bassel. To remember Syria.
00:44:37.596 --> 00:44:39.756
Because it seems that because of the news,
00:44:39.756 --> 00:44:43.976
we just, we don't hear about Syria anymore!
00:44:43.976 --> 00:44:49.743
I mean, it's like, it is on, you know, in the parking lot,
00:44:49.743 --> 00:44:54.656
and if we have some time, we go, "oh, okay, something is going badly there."
00:44:54.656 --> 00:44:58.001
But, uh, we seem to have forgotten about all the suffering.
00:44:58.001 --> 00:45:01.056
And together with Bassel there are
00:45:01.056 --> 00:45:07.457
lots of system administrators, computer experts, and hackers who are in prison,
00:45:07.457 --> 00:45:09.678
and sometimes we only care about journalists!
00:45:09.678 --> 00:45:14.748
But, you know, there's lots of people, valuable people for the future of Syria,
00:45:14.748 --> 00:45:19.384
who are in prison now,
who need our solidarity.
00:45:19.384 --> 00:45:25.717
I would also like to... if you live in a country which has received Syrian refugees,
00:45:25.717 --> 00:45:27.793
please show your solidarity.
00:45:27.793 --> 00:45:31.521
I know that sharing your computer might not sound appealing,
00:45:31.521 --> 00:45:36.945
but maybe crowdfunding and giving a computer with internet access to this refugee camp
00:45:36.945 --> 00:45:40.454
so they can stay in touch with their relatives abroad...?
00:45:40.454 --> 00:45:45.603
Maybe doing a short talk or short gathering near them...?
00:45:45.603 --> 00:45:49.489
I think that those are good ways to help Bassel.
00:45:49.489 --> 00:45:53.494
Because that's what Bassel probably would be doing if he was free.
00:45:53.494 --> 00:45:58.372
So my appeal is that - to not forget Syria, to not forget Bassel.
00:45:58.372 --> 00:46:03.086
The free internet is a free internet with free Bassel and free Syria!
00:46:03.086 --> 00:46:06.780
And that's - [laughingly] - the Web I want, actually!
00:46:06.780 --> 00:46:08.888
Ellery: That is the Web she wants!
00:46:08.888 --> 00:46:10.120
Ellery: The Web many of us want.
00:46:10.120 --> 00:46:12.487
So, there's a lot of work to do,
00:46:12.487 --> 00:46:18.350
and there are lots of ways to get involved,
as we've heard about.
00:46:18.350 --> 00:46:20.521
Thank you, everybody, so much
00:46:20.521 --> 00:46:23.421
for coming on today,
00:46:23.421 --> 00:46:31.348
and, umm, we hope to see everybody here and out there, next week on GV Face!
00:46:31.348 --> 00:46:33.410
Thanks so much!