0:00:00.240,0:00:08.469 RC3-Music 0:00:08.469,0:00:15.139 Herald: So our next speaker is Rick Panin[br]with his talk vapor phase, soldiering with 0:00:15.139,0:00:20.340 the deep fryer. So Rick has been doing[br]hardware design design for some time now. 0:00:20.340,0:00:25.060 He actually considers himself a full stack[br]developer from the hardware world. So 0:00:25.060,0:00:30.289 basically going from software to hardware,[br]it's everything from doing circuits to 0:00:30.289,0:00:35.760 firmware development on embedded Linux. He[br]usually does his stuff in small series 0:00:35.760,0:00:42.949 production in order to be able to give out[br]some of the samples to the community where 0:00:42.949,0:00:48.750 he's also been spending a bunch of time.[br]He's trying to slowly move the process of 0:00:48.750,0:00:55.629 being able to do as much as possible in-[br]house. And this talk is a result of that 0:00:55.629,0:01:01.519 process. Please give a great round of[br]applause, at least at home to Rick Panin. 0:01:01.519,0:01:06.070 Thank you. 0:01:06.070,0:01:11.950 Rick: Hi, welcome to my talk "Vapour phase[br]soldering with a deep fryer". In this 0:01:11.950,0:01:17.750 talk, I first explain the reflow process[br]in detail and then I'll show you how 0:01:17.750,0:01:24.630 vapour phase soldering works and how to do[br]it with a cheap, deep fryer. Reflow 0:01:24.630,0:01:30.439 soldering basically consists of three[br]steps. First, you apply some solder paste 0:01:30.439,0:01:37.379 to a circuit board. Then you place your[br]components onto the solder paste, and 0:01:37.379,0:01:45.130 finally, you apply some heat to do the[br]extra soldering. For that, you need some 0:01:45.130,0:01:54.070 solder paste, solder paste comes in 100[br]thousand varieties. Most of them have as 0:01:54.070,0:01:58.780 different melting points and different[br]ingredients, but the common lead-free 0:01:58.780,0:02:07.429 paste that you use these days melt about[br]210 to 225 degrees Celsius. And the 0:02:07.429,0:02:14.000 majority of the solder paste has a limited[br]shelf life and has to be kept in a fridge 0:02:14.000,0:02:21.810 if you're not using it. So for home use, I[br]would recommend using the solder paste 0:02:21.810,0:02:28.660 that comes in syringes because it's a[br]lesser amount and it probably won't go bad 0:02:28.660,0:02:34.970 unless you use a lot of solder paste.[br]Also, it's a bit easier to apply it. 0:02:34.970,0:02:42.140 All Solder paste comes with temperature[br]profile that tells you exactly how many 0:02:42.140,0:02:49.910 seconds you should ramp up the temperature[br]to a certain amount and then you have a 0:02:49.910,0:02:58.870 soaking phase where for several seconds[br]you keep the temperature at the same point 0:02:58.870,0:03:04.900 and then for a very short amount of time,[br]you ramp up the temperature to the reflow 0:03:04.900,0:03:11.810 phase. That's when the actual soldiering[br]happens and then you have to remove the 0:03:11.810,0:03:18.820 temperature to cool it down. For applying[br]the solder paste, there are two basic 0:03:18.820,0:03:26.600 methods. The first one is a direct paste[br]application, so you can do that manually 0:03:26.600,0:03:32.400 by just taking a syringe and applying a[br]small amount of solder paste to each pad 0:03:32.400,0:03:42.430 where you want to put your SMD components.[br]Then the next step would be a modified CMC 0:03:42.430,0:03:50.850 mill or a 3D printer where you put in a[br]solder paste syringe as a tool head and 0:03:50.850,0:03:58.050 then load in your paste layer from your[br]electronics design software and the 0:03:58.050,0:04:04.350 printer, then or the CMC mill[br]automatically applies the solder paste to 0:04:04.350,0:04:12.240 the pads on the board. And for industrial[br]applications, there are also inkjet 0:04:12.240,0:04:21.010 printer like devices that apply the solder[br]paste automatically to PCBs. But these 0:04:21.010,0:04:29.360 devices are very expensive and probably[br]not suitable for home use. For home users, 0:04:29.360,0:04:35.840 I would recommend getting a stencil for[br]solder paste applications because stencil 0:04:35.840,0:04:41.830 have become very cheap and the recent[br]years, and it's much simpler to apply the 0:04:41.830,0:04:51.350 solder paste with the stencil than doing[br]it manually. So stencils can be used also 0:04:51.350,0:04:59.889 in different ways. The simple and cheapest[br]one is just putting your boards on a desk 0:04:59.889,0:05:07.080 and using some tape to apply your stencil[br]to it. So you position it over your board 0:05:07.080,0:05:14.689 and then you fix it to your desk. And[br]after that, you use a rake to wipe your 0:05:14.689,0:05:23.490 solder paste to the board. I will show[br]that later in the demo. For home users, I 0:05:23.490,0:05:28.810 would definitely recommend getting[br]frameless stencils when you order a 0:05:28.810,0:05:35.370 stencil in your PCB house, you can always[br]you always have a checkbox where you can 0:05:35.370,0:05:42.699 say, I want a frame or no frame. The first[br]time I ordered a stencil, I took the frame 0:05:42.699,0:05:50.699 version and that looks like this. So you[br]get a gigantic thing and there in the 0:05:50.699,0:05:59.569 middle, it's actually my ... can we see[br]it. Maybe like this. There are. This is 0:05:59.569,0:06:05.569 the actual board and this is the stencil[br]on it has some, some aluminum framing 0:06:05.569,0:06:11.419 around it, and that's definitely very[br]expensive for shipping. So you'd rather 0:06:11.419,0:06:17.610 want something like this. So a frameless[br]stencil that can be used very easily for 0:06:17.610,0:06:29.719 the method where you just put it on your[br]desk. If you do a lot of the same boards, 0:06:29.719,0:06:36.560 then there are stencil printers, manual[br]stencil printers. That's where you use the 0:06:36.560,0:06:43.360 stencils with a frame. But these stencil[br]printers are not cheap, and I think the 0:06:43.360,0:06:51.259 the tape on desk method is pretty simple[br]to use. So unless you make a batch 0:06:51.259,0:06:58.090 production of boards, I would always just[br]get the frame, the stencil and do it on 0:06:58.090,0:07:07.400 your desk. For industrial environments,[br]there are automatic stencil printers that 0:07:07.400,0:07:13.499 have a conveyor belt pull in the PCB, do[br]all the positioning and then automatically 0:07:13.499,0:07:22.430 apply the solder paste to the stencil.[br]After you have put the solder paste on 0:07:22.430,0:07:27.409 your board, then you need to place your[br]components. Again, the cheapest way and 0:07:27.409,0:07:34.900 what what most home users will do is just[br]take all the components manually with some 0:07:34.900,0:07:41.240 tweezers and put it on your board because[br]of the way that reflow soldiering works. 0:07:41.240,0:07:46.660 And you will see that later in the demo.[br]You don't have to position them too 0:07:46.660,0:07:53.970 exactly because the surface tension of the[br]solder paste when it starts to melt will 0:07:53.970,0:08:02.450 pull the the components into position. So[br]you don't have to be too precise with 0:08:02.450,0:08:07.960 positioning, you shouldn't place it right[br]next to the footprint. But if if it's not 0:08:07.960,0:08:13.789 exactly where it should be, then this[br]should be resolved while in the reflow 0:08:13.789,0:08:21.139 soldering process later. So I would always[br]be recommending getting some good 0:08:21.139,0:08:29.250 tweezers. If you do the manual placement[br]and not using the two euro things from the 0:08:29.250,0:08:37.989 DIY store because they will bend easily[br]and so some good tweezers really help the 0:08:37.989,0:08:47.380 process. The next step would be a pick and[br]place machine that takes a file from your 0:08:47.380,0:08:53.199 design program that has all the positions[br]of the components and the rotation that it 0:08:53.199,0:09:00.130 needs after picking up the components from[br]a reel or from a tray, and then use this 0:09:00.130,0:09:08.740 little suction cups to to place the[br]components on the board. These have become 0:09:08.740,0:09:14.870 a little bit cheaper in the recent years,[br]but it's quite a hassle to to program it 0:09:14.870,0:09:23.300 for a lot of components. So unless you're[br]doing more than 20 boards or so, it's not 0:09:23.300,0:09:27.430 really worth getting a pick and place[br]machine and programing it and getting all 0:09:27.430,0:09:35.350 of the rotation and and the pick up[br]correctly. So, yeah, for projects where 0:09:35.350,0:09:42.660 you do one to five boards, always do the[br]manual placement and then in industrial 0:09:42.660,0:09:48.399 environments, there are also these pick[br]and place machine like in the mill. But 0:09:48.399,0:09:54.240 for very high volume production, there are[br]also machines called chipshooters that 0:09:54.240,0:10:02.269 have a revolving turret that picks up[br]components and then shoot them to the PCB. 0:10:02.269,0:10:09.500 Once your components are placed on the[br]board, you will need to solder it. And the 0:10:09.500,0:10:16.069 cheapest method here is to use a hot air[br]gun. If you ever did this, you will know 0:10:16.069,0:10:23.389 that it's not as easy as it looks. So you[br]set your hot air gun to a temperature and 0:10:23.389,0:10:29.230 you set the airflow. And often, if you set[br]the airflow too high, then you blow your 0:10:29.230,0:10:34.290 components off the board. Or if you set[br]the temperature, you too high. You burn 0:10:34.290,0:10:39.680 some components or you de-solder stuff[br]that you don't want to de-solder on other 0:10:39.680,0:10:47.220 parts of the board. So it's mostly used if[br]you do replacement of single components. 0:10:47.220,0:10:54.930 So you want to rework a chip or replace[br]one or if you do really just a few 0:10:54.930,0:11:02.330 components, then this can also be the[br]method to use. But I'd always recommend if 0:11:02.330,0:11:08.829 you do that, then use some solder paste[br]that has a lower melting point. So I 0:11:08.829,0:11:15.630 listed one from ChipQuick here that I am[br]using for hot air reflowing and that melts 0:11:15.630,0:11:23.029 at just 135 degrees C, so that makes it[br]way easier to get the setting right on 0:11:23.029,0:11:33.319 your hot air gun. The next thing is using[br]a modified pizza oven, so you get a pizza 0:11:33.319,0:11:39.190 oven and you put some thermal couples into[br]it to have a good temperature measurement. 0:11:39.190,0:11:47.380 And then most hobby users add some[br]controller, for example, in arduino based 0:11:47.380,0:11:53.829 controller that then tries to keep the[br]temperature profile that you've seen on 0:11:53.829,0:12:01.839 the solder paste. That works well for some[br]stuff, but because some of these ovens 0:12:01.839,0:12:09.129 have these heating coils on the top, you[br]have to be really careful with the 0:12:09.129,0:12:13.860 placement of your PCB underneath it[br]because there are some spots that are 0:12:13.860,0:12:20.180 hotter and somewhat colder, and in[br]general, it's it's hard to get good 0:12:20.180,0:12:26.980 results with a pizza oven. Often you have[br]to add some some airflow to get a better 0:12:26.980,0:12:33.850 distribution of the temperature. Sometimes[br]it's hard to ramp up the temperature fast 0:12:33.850,0:12:41.620 enough, and it's kind of a hassle. So I[br]also use this method, and that's why I 0:12:41.620,0:12:45.639 switched to vapour phase soldering,[br]because that's the process that is much 0:12:45.639,0:12:54.890 easier to control at home. In industrial[br]environments, you have large reflow ovens 0:12:54.890,0:12:59.120 that have different zones with different[br]temperature, and then you have a conveyor 0:12:59.120,0:13:06.209 belt and your PCB goes on this conveyor[br]belt through the oven and through the 0:13:06.209,0:13:12.530 different zones and then by just adjusting[br]the speed of the conveyor. It's very easy 0:13:12.530,0:13:22.410 to control the heat that is applied to the[br]board. Instead of using an oven for reflow 0:13:22.410,0:13:30.790 soldering, you can also use vapor phase[br]solder. And that's a very simple concept 0:13:30.790,0:13:37.149 that has been around since the 1970s. That[br]works by using a phase chamber with a 0:13:37.149,0:13:44.220 heater on the bottom phase chambers just[br]as sophisticated word for cooking pot. So, 0:13:44.220,0:13:51.129 yeah, just like a cooking pot, you have[br]some kind of container and underneath it 0:13:51.129,0:13:56.220 you have a heat source and then inside of[br]the container you have a liquid called 0:13:56.220,0:14:05.959 Galden. Galden is liquid plastic that has[br]some very unique properties. So the most 0:14:05.959,0:14:12.910 important one is that it has a boiling[br]temperature of about 200 degrees. So there 0:14:12.910,0:14:20.470 is Galden for different temperatures, just[br]like solder paste. So there's one that 0:14:20.470,0:14:32.800 evaporates at 170 degrees, and some that[br]evaporates up to 260 degrees. And now, 0:14:32.800,0:14:38.670 when you apply heat to this Galden, at[br]some point it begins to boil and then it 0:14:38.670,0:14:46.930 forms a vapor that is heavier than air, so[br]it stays at the bottom of this chamber. 0:14:46.930,0:14:54.740 And that way, you'll have a low[br]temperature on the top of the chamber and 0:14:54.740,0:15:01.259 a higher temperature on the bottom of the[br]chamber, and the temperature will be 0:15:01.259,0:15:08.840 exactly the boiling temperature of the[br]Galden. So it's just like with water. If 0:15:08.840,0:15:16.470 you cook water, then you get water vapor.[br]And unless you put it under pressure, the 0:15:16.470,0:15:22.569 water vapor will have exactly 100 degrees[br]and not more. And that's just like with 0:15:22.569,0:15:30.290 the Galden vapor that if you have gotten[br]that is has a boiling point of 230 0:15:30.290,0:15:38.779 degrees, then the vapor will have exactly[br]230 degrees. And unless all the Galden in 0:15:38.779,0:15:45.249 the phase chamber has evaporated, nothing[br]will change. So you can never get it to a 0:15:45.249,0:15:53.910 high temperature. And in most of these[br]chambers, for vapor phase soldering, you 0:15:53.910,0:16:00.670 also have a cooling system on the top. So[br]because the Galden is pretty expensive, 0:16:00.670,0:16:08.660 you don't want to lose any of it. Now, if[br]you put a PCB in this chamber and slowly 0:16:08.660,0:16:18.149 lower it into the vapor, then the[br]temperature on the PCB will slowly rise to 0:16:18.149,0:16:28.209 the Galden boiling temperature. And as[br]this Galden vapor condensates on the parts 0:16:28.209,0:16:34.430 of the PCB and it does it everywhere where[br]the vapor attaches to the PCB, then it 0:16:34.430,0:16:39.440 will very evenly heat up all the[br]components and also the solder paste on 0:16:39.440,0:16:46.350 the PCB to exactly the Galden's boiling[br]temperature. And that way, you have a 0:16:46.350,0:16:51.399 process that's very easy to control[br]because it's not really possible to 0:16:51.399,0:16:58.629 overheat your components, or the solder[br]paste. So by timing the lowering and the 0:16:58.629,0:17:05.810 lifting of the PCB into the vapor, you can[br]very nicely follow the temperature profile 0:17:05.810,0:17:12.230 of your soldering paste. One drawback of[br]this process is that the Galden is very 0:17:12.230,0:17:19.900 expensive. So, if you have a large[br]industrial vapor phase reflow oven, you 0:17:19.900,0:17:27.069 need some liters of it. And as you see,[br]five liters costs about a thousand 0:17:27.069,0:17:33.910 dollars. But for the process I'm showing[br]now with the small deep fryer, you just 0:17:33.910,0:17:41.549 need a very small amount. So I use about[br]250 ml, and at least in Europe, you can 0:17:41.549,0:17:53.580 get 400 milliliters of the 230 degree[br]Galden at Beta Layout for €88. So for the 0:17:53.580,0:17:58.570 deep fryer vapour phase soldering, you[br]need to buy a deep fryer for about 100 0:17:58.570,0:18:05.290 euros and Galden in for 90 euros, so the[br]whole process can be done for under 200 0:18:05.290,0:18:11.220 euros. And if you're worried about the[br]safety, Galden this actually very safe 0:18:11.220,0:18:17.110 because it's basically inert. So it's no[br]problem if you breathe in the vapor or if 0:18:17.110,0:18:23.390 you even swallow it the. The Safety[br]instructions that come with the Galden say 0:18:23.390,0:18:27.580 if you breathe it in, then you should go[br]outside and take two or three deep 0:18:27.580,0:18:32.570 breaths. And if you swallow it, you should[br]drink two glasses of water. In an 0:18:32.570,0:18:39.830 industrial environment, you have these[br]large vapor phase machines that also use 0:18:39.830,0:18:48.809 the conveyor belt and automate the whole[br]process. And these are very expensive, but 0:18:48.809,0:18:54.200 for lab use and prototyping. There are[br]these smaller machines that also cost a 0:18:54.200,0:19:01.570 couple of thousand euros, but they are[br]basically a container with a heater on the 0:19:01.570,0:19:07.870 bottom, a temperature probe and some kind[br]of controller. And these are exactly the 0:19:07.870,0:19:12.770 same as deep fryers. So deep fryers also[br]have some kind of heating coil at the 0:19:12.770,0:19:19.520 bottom, and they have the controller and[br]somewhere there's a temperature probe to 0:19:19.520,0:19:25.730 keep the temperature that you set on the[br]controller. And I've looked at lots of 0:19:25.730,0:19:33.690 these devices, and finally, I found one[br]that fits very good to my use case and the 0:19:33.690,0:19:42.080 size of the boards that I'm usually making[br]and that that is a WMF mini fryer. It is 0:19:42.080,0:19:51.630 quite small and it has a lid that is[br]sealed, so there's not much vapor escaping 0:19:51.630,0:19:59.540 and a very nice thing, is that when the[br]lid is closed by turning the handle, you 0:19:59.540,0:20:10.460 can lower and lift the basket inside. It[br]has a container that can be taken out. 0:20:10.460,0:20:15.841 That is quite flat on the bottom. And that[br]is also important because if you have the 0:20:15.841,0:20:23.799 heating coils inside of the container, you[br]need a lot of the expensive Galden to put 0:20:23.799,0:20:31.010 that much in it, that it's that it fills[br]it up to cover the heating rods. And 0:20:31.010,0:20:39.260 because of the heating rod here is in the[br]bottom, that's you just need to about 250 0:20:39.260,0:20:46.370 millimeters. So the whole bottom is[br]covered with Galden. The temperature 0:20:46.370,0:20:57.840 sensor in this device is just at the point[br]where the if you put in cooking oil, then 0:20:57.840,0:21:06.090 it's just where the lower level indicator[br]is on the container and the temperature 0:21:06.090,0:21:10.970 sensor is basically outside, and it[br]measures the temperature of the container 0:21:10.970,0:21:18.100 at a certain height. When we're using this[br]for a vapor phase soldering this 0:21:18.100,0:21:22.180 temperature sensor will be above the[br]liquid, which is pretty nice because it 0:21:22.180,0:21:30.739 will basically measure the temperature of[br]the vapor and not of the liquid. The only 0:21:30.739,0:21:38.270 drawback is that it can just be set to one[br]hundred and ninety degrees and not more, 0:21:38.270,0:21:46.010 which is, I think, kind of due to the fact[br]that you shouldn't try something like 0:21:46.010,0:21:51.600 potatoes with a higher temperature because[br]there can be some cancerous stuff 0:21:51.600,0:21:58.779 developing if you fry it with too much[br]heat. But that's no problem for vapor 0:21:58.779,0:22:04.770 phase soldiering. So we have to somehow[br]modify it that we can turn the temperature 0:22:04.770,0:22:13.820 higher. Fortunately, this device doesn't[br]have any electronics. It's all pretty 0:22:13.820,0:22:21.609 discreet. So it has the temperature probe[br]and that has a certain resistance. And 0:22:21.609,0:22:27.730 then you have the knob in front where you[br]set the temperature and you. That's also 0:22:27.730,0:22:32.110 just a potential meter where you set a[br]resistance and then it just compares the 0:22:32.110,0:22:39.490 resistance of the temperature probe to the[br]resistance that you set on this potential 0:22:39.490,0:22:48.549 meter. And if it's higher, it switches off[br]the heater. So the you would just have to 0:22:48.549,0:22:55.520 turn the knob a little bit further than[br]you can to have a higher temperature range 0:22:55.520,0:23:02.669 on that device, and you can do that by[br]opening up the button. And then there's a 0:23:02.669,0:23:09.230 little metal piece that stops the[br]potential meter from turning too far. You 0:23:09.230,0:23:14.980 can take a screwdriver and bend that up a[br]bit, and I guess it works the same for all 0:23:14.980,0:23:19.510 of the cheap deep fryers on the market.[br]And so they should be all basically the 0:23:19.510,0:23:28.340 same and just have a mechanical limiter[br]that can be removed. So you you bend up 0:23:28.340,0:23:34.770 this metal piece and then you screw the[br]bottom part back on. And then there's the 0:23:34.770,0:23:41.059 second limiter that you see when you take[br]off the knob on the front. There's a 0:23:41.059,0:23:48.779 little plastic part that also stops the[br]knob from turning to fall. So just take a 0:23:48.779,0:23:55.240 sharp knife and cut away that plastic[br]part, and then you can turn the knob as 0:23:55.240,0:24:01.730 far as you want. To prevent too much of[br]the precious Galden to escape through the 0:24:01.730,0:24:10.429 lid, we also need to add some cooling. I[br]just used an old PC cooler that I found 0:24:10.429,0:24:17.750 somewhere in my basement. I also wanted to[br]add water cooler at some point and looked 0:24:17.750,0:24:24.620 at some water coolers for graphics cards.[br]But the ones I found were too expensive or 0:24:24.620,0:24:29.990 not really available or not really[br]fitting. But I'm still looking to add 0:24:29.990,0:24:40.630 that, and then probably I would lose even[br]less Galden through the lid. So now let me 0:24:40.630,0:24:50.920 show you how that all works. Here, I[br]prepared the board and gluing it with some 0:24:50.920,0:24:58.590 double sided tape onto my desk and at some[br]some old boards around it, the upper one I 0:24:58.590,0:25:09.029 also glued to the board. Then I put the[br]stencil on it, taped it onto the other 0:25:09.029,0:25:16.329 board and used again and old board to rake[br]the solder paste over it. And as you can 0:25:16.329,0:25:23.320 see, that works pretty nicely. So it's not[br]that hard to use a total paste. No, I'm 0:25:23.320,0:25:30.850 putting some components to the bottom and[br]I have attached temperature probe to the 0:25:30.850,0:25:37.550 basket. You don't really need that. It's[br]just for this demo to show to show how it 0:25:37.550,0:25:42.739 works. The temperature probe is not[br]working really well, so it's not 30 0:25:42.739,0:25:49.460 degrees where I'm doing this. It's plus[br]minus 10 degrees. I think it was damaged 0:25:49.460,0:25:54.940 at some point. So you make sure that this[br]enough Galden, that the whole bottom of 0:25:54.940,0:26:01.700 the container is covered with it. Then you[br]put your basket with your board on it and 0:26:01.700,0:26:11.090 switch on the deep fryer. So I put it to[br]about where 210 degrees would be if it 0:26:11.090,0:26:17.480 would be on the scale. And then it takes[br]about three to four minutes until some 0:26:17.480,0:26:26.840 vapor is forming on the top of the PCB.[br]Here I waited a bit too long because I had 0:26:26.840,0:26:33.149 to it figure how to handle the camera. So,[br]you see, it's already starting to solder. 0:26:33.149,0:26:39.000 So I should have known it much sooner. But[br]now, I'm lowering it. And as we can see, 0:26:39.000,0:26:45.180 the temperature is rising quickly to where[br]it should be. And here you see through the 0:26:45.180,0:26:51.500 glass how the solder works and how the[br]components are pulled into place by the 0:26:51.500,0:26:58.559 surface tension of the solder paste. And[br]yeah, you can just watch it through this 0:26:58.559,0:27:06.870 window and see when everything is nice and[br]shiny and everything is soldered. And then 0:27:06.870,0:27:15.490 you switch off the deep fryer, raise the[br]basket again and wait for a few minutes 0:27:15.490,0:27:22.740 for it to cool down. I didn't wait long[br]enough. So you see this some vapor 0:27:22.740,0:27:28.800 escaping. It's not dangerous, but it's[br]expensive, so you should maybe wait a bit 0:27:28.800,0:27:32.769 longer. And now you see we have a nicely[br]soldered board. 0:27:32.769,0:27:41.220 Herald: Thank you so much, Rick. I think[br]it's really cool, like reducing the 0:27:41.220,0:27:46.480 friction in this entire process. I think[br]it's important to keep make sure that it's 0:27:46.480,0:27:50.940 possible to like innovate with like low[br]amounts of resources because as we've seen 0:27:50.940,0:27:54.660 before with the community, like, that's[br]really something that drives things 0:27:54.660,0:28:01.519 forward. So questions and I was actually[br]thinking about something myself like this 0:28:01.519,0:28:06.650 entire process. Like what has been one of[br]the biggest obstacles? Because like 0:28:06.650,0:28:11.080 watching the talk, it seems like you've[br]really overcome everything among the way 0:28:11.080,0:28:15.049 when there was a little itch or something[br]like what has actually proved to have been 0:28:15.049,0:28:17.220 a problem because I guess there must have[br]been something . 0:28:17.220,0:28:27.980 Rick: The biggest problem was finding the[br]right deep fryer. So I, yeah, I ordered I 0:28:27.980,0:28:34.860 think about three different ones and now[br]every now and then, I'm using my browser. 0:28:34.860,0:28:40.779 I get some advertisements for kitchen[br]appliance and that would last for some 0:28:40.779,0:28:47.560 time. But yeah, finding one that can be[br]modified easily. And that has this this 0:28:47.560,0:28:57.010 flat bottom. So yeah, I had ordered a lot[br]of them and send them back. But finding 0:28:57.010,0:29:00.990 the right ones and then the process is[br]pretty easy once you have the right one. 0:29:00.990,0:29:03.720 Also, the modification takes just a few[br]minutes. 0:29:03.720,0:29:10.570 Herald: Sounds a lot like trial and error[br]and that part. I mean, it's awesome that 0:29:10.570,0:29:14.900 it worked out and I guess I guess like[br]it's just part of the process with like 0:29:14.900,0:29:20.600 the advertising stuff.[br]Rick: So, yeah, if you if you do something 0:29:20.600,0:29:26.810 like that and want to misuse of pot and[br]then use a private browser, chat for that 0:29:26.810,0:29:31.210 because I'm not really interested in[br]kitchen appliances. But the algorithm 0:29:31.210,0:29:38.529 doesn't know that.[br]Herald: That's that's great. Yeah, just 0:29:38.529,0:29:46.130 just. And now we will be taking the[br]questions that have come in through the 0:29:46.130,0:29:53.190 internet. And so one person is asking, So[br]if the Galden is 230 degrees, can it be? 0:29:53.190,0:29:58.440 Can the solder be lead-free? The solder[br]paste, basically. 0:29:58.440,0:30:06.330 Rick: Yeah, yeah, I'm using lead-free[br]solder, Yeah, it doesn't make sense to use 0:30:06.330,0:30:12.530 leaded solder with with this process[br]because it works just fine. I know a lot 0:30:12.530,0:30:17.950 of people who who do who use the pizza[br]oven method, all the cheap Chinese reflow 0:30:17.950,0:30:23.680 oven they use that as solder paste just[br]because it's easier to get the lower 0:30:23.680,0:30:30.250 temperature right. But for this, it really[br]doesn't matter. So it works great. This is 0:30:30.250,0:30:34.899 leaded solder paste. And also in the demo,[br]I used to lead-free solder paste. 0:30:34.899,0:30:40.889 Herald: That's awesome, I think that was[br]an important thing to to to be able to 0:30:40.889,0:30:45.600 have to figure out. So another person is[br]asking So with the discussion about 0:30:45.600,0:30:50.529 fluorinated chemicals, is there a need to[br]revisit the safety classification of the 0:30:50.529,0:30:58.429 Galden or like, is that fine?[br]Rick: I think so. So you're really using 0:30:58.429,0:31:04.850 just a little of it and there is as long[br]as you don't heat it up too much, it's 0:31:04.850,0:31:12.000 completely safe. If if you would manage to[br]somehow heat up the gun above 290 degrees, 0:31:12.000,0:31:20.020 it would break down and there would be[br]some hydrochloric acid coming out of it. 0:31:20.020,0:31:24.769 That would be very, very bad. But so so[br]you have to make really sure that you have 0:31:24.769,0:31:28.760 enough Galden in it because the only way[br]that that could happen, that you heat up 0:31:28.760,0:31:34.299 the vapor to too much, I think, would be[br]to put too little in it. If it's just a 0:31:34.299,0:31:38.889 very little bit in it, it could be that[br]the bottom gets too hot and then it could 0:31:38.889,0:31:46.080 break down. But you really it's hard to to[br]get the vapor above 290 degrees if it's 0:31:46.080,0:31:52.409 not under pressure or anything. So I think[br]it's pretty safe and it lasts very long. 0:31:52.409,0:31:56.890 So I probably I bought this 400[br]milliliters and it probably will last 0:31:56.890,0:32:05.409 forever. From time to time, there's some[br]residue in the in the Galden, but you can 0:32:05.409,0:32:10.169 just run it through a coffee filter and[br]then it's fine again. So it's you're not 0:32:10.169,0:32:14.909 really using it up. It's it's just like a[br]tool and then it will last a very long 0:32:14.909,0:32:18.980 time.[br]Herald: So I and extending and the last 0:32:18.980,0:32:22.450 thing, so someone who is a bit freaked out[br]with chemicals and stuff like that, for 0:32:22.450,0:32:26.870 instance, me like, how do you actually go[br]about it? Like, what's the absolute worst 0:32:26.870,0:32:30.159 thing that could happen?[br]Rick: The worst thing is the hydrochloric 0:32:30.159,0:32:35.830 acid forming when when you get it too hot.[br]So it's something so I would recommend to. 0:32:35.830,0:32:42.809 If you do that, do that outside. Take all[br]the precautions use safety goggles, use, 0:32:42.809,0:32:49.660 use gloves and maybe also use your FFP2[br]mask if you're if you're really afraid of 0:32:49.660,0:32:54.830 it. And then if you if you do it outside[br]and and never look away, if if Y-, they're 0:32:54.830,0:33:00.240 using it. So if you're done using it or if[br]you walk away from it, disconnected from 0:33:00.240,0:33:06.230 the power. And yeah, as with everything.[br]So so it's really hot when you don't want 0:33:06.230,0:33:12.380 something that's 230 degrees on your on[br]your hands. So. So just don't be stupid. 0:33:12.380,0:33:18.530 Herald: Sounds like a sane precaution.[br]Rick: But the government is actually. So 0:33:18.530,0:33:23.710 if you have seen the film The Abyss, it's[br]it's an old science fiction movie where 0:33:23.710,0:33:29.299 they are underwater and they are breathing[br]in a liquid. Was that his oxygen in it to 0:33:29.299,0:33:33.760 go deeper? And that is actually the same[br]stuff. And there are. You can find 0:33:33.760,0:33:38.960 pictures on the internet where they have[br]rats in and in small (glasses) with the 0:33:38.960,0:33:45.330 stuff in it, and they're breathing it. And[br]so it's really, yeah, unless you make it 0:33:45.330,0:33:48.350 too hot, it's really inert and it doesn't[br]react with anything. 0:33:48.350,0:33:53.010 Herald: I'll refrain from asking you how[br]the movie ends. 0:33:53.010,0:34:00.960 Rick: I think there is a lot that I think[br]I've seen it, but 0:34:00.960,0:34:08.910 Herald: No worries. The next question is[br]do you need to do you need to remove the 0:34:08.910,0:34:12.870 condensed Galden vapour from the[br]components or how does that work? 0:34:12.870,0:34:22.220 Rick: Um, there's actually very little on[br]it. So they feel dry. So I don't I don't 0:34:22.220,0:34:29.010 clean the boards afterwards. I think I[br]think that's fine and there's not really 0:34:29.010,0:34:34.869 much left. So, yeah, the stuff condensing[br]on it. But I think most of it drops down 0:34:34.869,0:34:40.050 and they're not wet to the touch yourself.[br]So, yeah, I don't I don't clean the boards 0:34:40.050,0:34:43.770 afterwards.[br]Herald: OK. I think it's good in these 0:34:43.770,0:34:47.389 kinds of situations to like, figure out[br]what someone who's a bit more experienced 0:34:47.389,0:34:54.159 or very more experienced like yourself[br]basically handles and doesn't that kind of 0:34:54.159,0:35:00.780 situation. So one of the next questions is[br]that if whether you have checked, if the 0:35:00.780,0:35:05.050 plastic can safely be heated to 250[br]degrees and I think they're basically 0:35:05.050,0:35:10.950 referring to the deep fryer here,[br]Rick: oh, that's that's all on. There are 0:35:10.950,0:35:18.350 some plastic parts, but the container is[br]this metal and there there is on the top 0:35:18.350,0:35:24.040 lid there are some plastic parts. I've[br]made some experiments first and nothing 0:35:24.040,0:35:30.470 melted. But yeah, I have to see you see[br]what happens. I've used it, I don't know, 0:35:30.470,0:35:37.619 10 or 20 times, and it's fine until now.[br]But yeah, yeah, probably. This device is 0:35:37.619,0:35:42.180 not made for that kind of heat, but it's[br]made for 190 degrees and up 230 is not too 0:35:42.180,0:35:49.890 far from that. So until now, it (keeps) up[br]nicely. But again, it's a hack it's not 0:35:49.890,0:35:56.960 really, really made for this. For me, it[br]works fine, but you have to be careful if 0:35:56.960,0:36:04.230 you try it out yourself.[br]Herald: Cool. Thank you. I will just check 0:36:04.230,0:36:09.100 if there are any like last under falling[br]or real questions, I don't know how you 0:36:09.100,0:36:13.770 say that in English. And I think that was[br]actually everything for now. So as I said 0:36:13.770,0:36:17.500 previously Rick, like, thank you so much.[br]It's it's really great, especially 0:36:17.500,0:36:22.810 considering that as the more you can take[br]in at home, the easier and faster this 0:36:22.810,0:36:27.220 process will be and basically also lower[br]the cost. And like I at least personally 0:36:27.220,0:36:32.640 feel that that's very important. So I want[br]to say thank you. And I think that the 0:36:32.640,0:36:36.790 audience agrees with me. So thanks a lot.[br]OK, 0:36:36.790,0:36:40.599 Rick: Then. Yeah, have fun soloing at[br]home. 0:36:40.599,0:36:51.850 Herald: We will. Thanks. Bye[br]Rick:bye 0:36:51.850,0:37:00.970 RC3-postroll Music 0:37:00.970,0:37:08.020 Subtitles created by c3subtitles.de[br]in the year 2021. Join, and help us!