0:00:00.107,0:00:02.524 (jazz music) 0:00:06.460,0:00:08.200 - [Steven] We're in the[br]Metropolitan Museum of Art, 0:00:08.200,0:00:11.280 looking at an enormous[br]painting by Jackson Pollock. 0:00:11.280,0:00:15.830 This is 17 feet wide and he[br]originally titled it "Number 30" 0:00:15.830,0:00:17.750 but then later "Autumn Rhythm." 0:00:17.750,0:00:19.980 So the museum is creating a compromise 0:00:19.980,0:00:22.550 and they're calling it[br]"Autumn Rhythm (Number 30)". 0:00:22.550,0:00:24.590 - [Beth] This is a complicated painting. 0:00:24.590,0:00:26.630 And for some reason to me today 0:00:26.630,0:00:28.260 in the midst of the pandemic, 0:00:28.260,0:00:31.150 less than two weeks before[br]a presidential election, 0:00:31.150,0:00:35.650 I feel like I might be projecting[br]some of my own darkness 0:00:35.650,0:00:39.350 into this painting that I[br]know is painted in 1950, 0:00:39.350,0:00:42.480 just five years after[br]the end of World War II. 0:00:42.480,0:00:43.960 - [Steven] A lot of the discussion 0:00:43.960,0:00:46.020 about the abstract expressionists 0:00:46.020,0:00:48.300 of which Pollock was one[br]of the leading figures 0:00:48.300,0:00:51.180 deals with the issue of[br]an angst and anxiety. 0:00:51.180,0:00:54.720 These were issues that were[br]dominant in the post-war moment. 0:00:54.720,0:00:57.200 1950 was the Cold War. 0:00:57.200,0:00:59.120 The atomic bombs were threatening 0:00:59.120,0:01:01.910 in a way that had never happened[br]before in human history. 0:01:01.910,0:01:03.830 The enormity of the Holocaust 0:01:03.830,0:01:06.410 had been revealed only[br]a few years earlier. 0:01:06.410,0:01:08.460 - [Beth] And there were[br]the trials of Nazis 0:01:08.460,0:01:10.970 that went on for years[br]after the end of the war. 0:01:10.970,0:01:13.380 I can imagine there[br]was a sense for artists 0:01:13.380,0:01:17.070 that a new language was needed to express 0:01:17.070,0:01:19.130 this post World War II era 0:01:19.130,0:01:22.000 and that the old systems of naturalism 0:01:22.000,0:01:23.470 coming out of the Renaissance 0:01:23.470,0:01:25.440 was not a language that was viable 0:01:25.440,0:01:27.310 given the new circumstances. 0:01:27.310,0:01:28.440 - [Steven] I think a number of artists 0:01:28.440,0:01:31.210 didn't feel that[br]naturalism, that figuration, 0:01:31.210,0:01:34.010 the representation of the[br]human body was going to cut it. 0:01:34.010,0:01:36.590 They were looking for something[br]that was more profound, 0:01:36.590,0:01:39.550 that was able to grapple[br]with existential issues, 0:01:39.550,0:01:42.880 issues of human existence and[br]the potential extinguishing 0:01:42.880,0:01:44.070 of human existence. 0:01:44.070,0:01:46.910 - [Beth] If you think about[br]the decade or two before this, 0:01:46.910,0:01:50.760 we have surrealism and this[br]interest in the unconscious 0:01:50.760,0:01:54.470 and delving beyond the[br]conscious everyday mind 0:01:54.470,0:01:57.580 and looking for a greater, deeper truth 0:01:57.580,0:02:01.150 about human existence, about[br]the way our minds work. 0:02:01.150,0:02:02.460 - [Steven] Well, there was this idea 0:02:02.460,0:02:03.820 that goes back to the surrealist. 0:02:03.820,0:02:05.200 It goes back even to Dada, 0:02:05.200,0:02:08.040 that the conscious rational[br]mind got in the way, 0:02:08.040,0:02:11.080 that it was antithetical[br]to the creative impulse, 0:02:11.080,0:02:13.910 that if we could somehow[br]step out of the way 0:02:13.910,0:02:16.020 and allow something more elemental, 0:02:16.020,0:02:18.530 more unintentional to come to the fore, 0:02:18.530,0:02:22.170 that would somehow be more[br]truthful and more universal. 0:02:22.170,0:02:25.060 What we're seeing is a[br]high point in modern art, 0:02:25.060,0:02:27.950 where artists were stepping[br]away from the representation 0:02:27.950,0:02:28.783 of nature, 0:02:28.783,0:02:31.150 something that had been[br]central to the making of art, 0:02:31.150,0:02:34.320 this interest in something that[br]was not abstract in nature, 0:02:34.320,0:02:35.970 but it was purely abstract. 0:02:35.970,0:02:38.400 It's radicality can't be overstated. 0:02:38.400,0:02:42.070 This was completely upending[br]the traditions of image-making. 0:02:42.070,0:02:44.880 He's turning away from the[br]representation of nature 0:02:44.880,0:02:48.750 and looking into himself,[br]his own physical movements, 0:02:48.750,0:02:53.510 his own emotional state at[br]this specific moment in time. 0:02:53.510,0:02:54.990 - [Beth] So we're not looking at, 0:02:54.990,0:02:58.510 for example, analytic cubism,[br]which is an abstraction 0:02:58.510,0:03:01.350 from nature where Picasso takes a guitar 0:03:01.350,0:03:05.040 and disassembles it into geometric forms, 0:03:05.040,0:03:07.240 but here, he's not starting from nature, 0:03:07.240,0:03:09.640 but starting from the[br]place of an individual 0:03:09.640,0:03:11.690 in a moment in time. 0:03:11.690,0:03:13.310 - [Steven] And in a particular place, 0:03:13.310,0:03:15.810 this was made in his studio, a small barn 0:03:15.810,0:03:17.643 in the back of the[br]house at Jackson Pollock 0:03:17.643,0:03:19.990 and Lee Krasner's property 0:03:19.990,0:03:21.710 out in the Springs in East Hampton. 0:03:21.710,0:03:23.690 It's a relatively small space. 0:03:23.690,0:03:27.010 This is an enormous canvas,[br]he unrolled it on the floor. 0:03:27.010,0:03:29.350 He didn't prime it, he didn't add gesso. 0:03:29.350,0:03:30.840 He didn't seal the surface. 0:03:30.840,0:03:33.750 He painted directly on the raw canvas, 0:03:33.750,0:03:35.810 but I can't say even that he painted it, 0:03:35.810,0:03:38.160 he didn't touch the canvas with his brush. 0:03:38.160,0:03:42.370 He moved over the canvas[br]and let paint fall on it. 0:03:42.370,0:03:44.820 - [Beth] So there is a kind of rawness. 0:03:44.820,0:03:46.660 For centuries, whenever an artist painted, 0:03:46.660,0:03:48.550 not only did they prime the canvas, 0:03:48.550,0:03:51.320 but they most often prepared drawings, 0:03:51.320,0:03:53.840 organize the composition,[br]thought it through. 0:03:53.840,0:03:56.780 There was a real intentionality[br]and consciousness. 0:03:56.780,0:03:59.970 That was an important part of[br]the value of a work of art. 0:03:59.970,0:04:02.830 - [Steven] And here he's[br]flipping that value on its head. 0:04:02.830,0:04:05.740 Pollock used house paint,[br]that black is an enamel. 0:04:05.740,0:04:09.580 It's a break with the refinements[br]of fine art materials, 0:04:09.580,0:04:12.020 bringing art into the real world. 0:04:12.020,0:04:14.240 And that's a reminder[br]that Pollock had been, 0:04:14.240,0:04:16.310 especially earlier in his career, 0:04:16.310,0:04:18.030 interested in social issues. 0:04:18.030,0:04:20.400 This is an enormous canvas[br]that might remind us 0:04:20.400,0:04:22.340 of large scale mural paintings. 0:04:22.340,0:04:23.480 - [Beth] So he's looking back 0:04:23.480,0:04:25.390 to the great Mexican muralists 0:04:25.390,0:04:28.100 like Siqueiros and Diego Rivera, 0:04:28.100,0:04:31.920 and thinking about the[br]enormous scale of those murals 0:04:31.920,0:04:35.930 and in art, that was not a[br]small paintings for a collector, 0:04:35.930,0:04:38.150 but large paintings for the masses. 0:04:38.150,0:04:39.520 - [Steven] What Pollock is after here 0:04:39.520,0:04:42.540 is a kind of spontaneity,[br]it's an immediate invention. 0:04:42.540,0:04:45.600 He's drawing on his tremendous skill, 0:04:45.600,0:04:48.700 but he's then letting loose,[br]and probably the best analogy 0:04:48.700,0:04:51.650 is to a highly accomplished jazz musician. 0:04:51.650,0:04:54.370 Somebody who can play the[br]saxophone or the piano 0:04:54.370,0:04:55.880 with extraordinary skill, 0:04:55.880,0:04:57.780 but then allows themselves to riff, 0:04:57.780,0:05:01.020 allows themselves to play[br]and allows the unconscious 0:05:01.020,0:05:03.036 and the moment to come to the fore. 0:05:03.036,0:05:05.763 - [Beth] And the emotion of the moment 0:05:05.763,0:05:08.140 becomes the guiding principles. 0:05:08.140,0:05:09.290 - [Steven] And I want[br]to go back to a point 0:05:09.290,0:05:10.740 you made a moment before 0:05:10.740,0:05:12.860 he's not painting on unprimed canvas, 0:05:12.860,0:05:14.840 simply to break with tradition. 0:05:14.840,0:05:19.260 He wants the paint to seep in[br]and stay in the canvas itself, 0:05:19.260,0:05:21.510 not to ride on its surface always. 0:05:21.510,0:05:25.010 And so there was a specific[br]quality that was achievable 0:05:25.010,0:05:27.300 because the paint was in direct contact 0:05:27.300,0:05:28.790 with the weave of the cloth. 0:05:28.790,0:05:30.290 - [Beth] And there's so many ways 0:05:30.290,0:05:32.530 that we experienced the paint here. 0:05:32.530,0:05:35.730 We see areas where it[br]did seep into the fabric. 0:05:35.730,0:05:38.230 We see dots that look like splashes. 0:05:38.230,0:05:41.380 We see other dots that have[br]a feeling of a night sky. 0:05:41.380,0:05:45.220 We see areas where the paint[br]has pulled up and dried 0:05:45.220,0:05:46.190 and cracked. 0:05:46.190,0:05:49.350 We see areas where the paint[br]is soft and atmospheric, 0:05:49.350,0:05:53.440 areas where it's sharp and[br]linear, where it's matte, 0:05:53.440,0:05:55.220 areas where it's shiny. 0:05:55.220,0:05:58.540 There's so much to explore[br]when you got up close. 0:05:58.540,0:06:00.380 - [Steven] But then you can also pull back 0:06:00.380,0:06:03.730 and you can see these[br]long trails of paint. 0:06:03.730,0:06:06.520 And you can imagine the[br]artist moving around 0:06:06.520,0:06:09.330 and rhythmically with[br]large arching motions, 0:06:09.330,0:06:11.080 flinging that paint into the air 0:06:11.080,0:06:13.330 and allowing gravity to pull it down. 0:06:13.330,0:06:16.070 The surface of this painting[br]then becomes of register 0:06:16.070,0:06:18.800 of Pollock's movement through[br]time and through space. 0:06:18.800,0:06:20.420 It becomes a kind of stage. 0:06:20.420,0:06:22.490 And in one sense, it's a shame 0:06:22.490,0:06:24.850 that the painting is[br]vertical hanging on the wall 0:06:24.850,0:06:27.900 because it was made[br]horizontally, he was over it. 0:06:27.900,0:06:29.800 And sometimes when I walk up to a Pollock, 0:06:29.800,0:06:32.310 I'll look at it from the[br]side and tilt my head 0:06:32.310,0:06:34.750 so I can look across it the way he saw it, 0:06:34.750,0:06:38.261 more as an arena to act in[br]than a canvas to look at it. 0:06:38.261,0:06:40.678 (jazz music)