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The story starts:
I was at a friend's house,

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and she had on her shelf
a copy of the DSM manual,

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which is the manual of mental disorders.

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It lists every known mental disorder.

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And it used to be, back in the '50s,
a very slim pamphlet.

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And then it got bigger
and bigger and bigger,

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and now it's 886 pages long.

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And it lists currently
374 mental disorders.

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So I was leafing through it,

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wondering if I had any mental disorders,

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and it turns out I've got 12.

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(Laughter)

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I've got generalized anxiety disorder,

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which is a given.

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I've got nightmare disorder,

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which is categorized

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if you have recurrent dreams of being
pursued or declared a failure,

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and all my dreams involve people
chasing me down the street

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going, "You're a failure!"

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(Laughter)

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I've got parent-child relational problems,

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which I blame my parents for.

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(Laughter)

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I'm kidding. I'm not kidding.

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I'm kidding.

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And I've got malingering.

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And I think it's actually quite rare

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to have both malingering
and generalized anxiety disorder,

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because malingering tends
to make me feel very anxious.

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Anyway, I was looking through this book,

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wondering if I was much crazier
than I thought I was,

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or maybe it's not a good idea to diagnose
yourself with a mental disorder

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if you're not a trained professional,

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or maybe the psychiatry profession
has a kind of strange desire

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to label what's essentially normal
human behavior as a mental disorder.

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I didn't know which of these was true,
but I thought it was kind of interesting,

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and I thought maybe I should
meet a critic of psychiatry

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to get their view,

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which is how I ended up having
lunch with the Scientologists.

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(Laughter)

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It was a man called Brian,
who runs a crack team of Scientologists

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who are determined to destroy
psychiatry wherever it lies.

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They're called the CCHR.

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And I said to him, "Can you prove to me

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that psychiatry is a pseudo-science
that can't be trusted?"

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And he said, "Yes,
we can prove it to you."

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And I said, "How?"

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And he said, "We're going
to introduce you to Tony."

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And I said, "Who's Tony?"

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And he said, "Tony's in Broadmoor."

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Now, Broadmoor is Broadmoor Hospital.

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It used to be known as the Broadmoor
Asylum for the Criminally Insane.

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It's where they send the serial killers,

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and the people who can't help themselves.

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And I said to Brian,
"Well, what did Tony do?"

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And he said, "Hardly anything.

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He beat someone up or something,

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and he decided to fake madness
to get out of a prison sentence.

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But he faked it too well,
and now he's stuck in Broadmoor

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and nobody will believe he's sane.

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Do you want us to try and get you
into Broadmoor to meet Tony?"

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So I said, "Yes, please."

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So I got the train to Broadmoor.

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I began to yawn uncontrollably
around Kempton Park,

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which apparently is what dogs
also do when anxious,

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they yawn uncontrollably.

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And we got to Broadmoor.

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And I got taken through gate
after gate after gate after gate

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into the wellness center, which is where
you get to meet the patients.

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It looks like a giant Hampton Inn.

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It's all peach and pine
and calming colors.

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And the only bold colors
are the reds of the panic buttons.

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And the patients started drifting in.

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And they were quite overweight
and wearing sweatpants,

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and quite docile-looking.

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And Brian the Scientologist
whispered to me,

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"They're medicated,"

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which, to the Scientologists,
is like the worst evil in the world,

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but I'm thinking
it's probably a good idea.

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(Laughter)

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And then Brian said, "Here's Tony."

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And a man was walking in.

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And he wasn't overweight,
he was in very good physical shape.

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And he wasn't wearing sweatpants,

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he was wearing a pinstripe suit.

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And he had his arm outstretched

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like someone out of The Apprentice.

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He looked like a man
who wanted to wear an outfit

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that would convince me
that he was very sane.

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And he sat down.

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And I said, "So is it true
that you faked your way in here?"

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And he said, "Yep. Yep. Absolutely.
I beat someone up when I was 17.

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And I was in prison awaiting trial,

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and my cellmate said to me,

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'You know what you have to do?

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Fake madness.

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Tell them you're mad, you'll get
sent to some cushy hospital.

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Nurses will bring you pizzas,
you'll have your own PlayStation.'"

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I said, "Well, how did you do it?"

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He said, "Well, I asked to see
the prison psychiatrist.

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And I'd just seen a film called 'Crash,'

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in which people get sexual pleasure
from crashing cars into walls.

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So I said to the psychiatrist,

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'I get sexual pleasure
from crashing cars into walls.'"

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And I said, "What else?"

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He said, "Oh, yeah.
I told the psychiatrist

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that I wanted to watch women as they died,

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because it would make
me feel more normal."

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I said, "Where'd you get that from?"

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He said, "Oh, from a biography
of Ted Bundy that they had

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at the prison library."

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Anyway, he faked madness
too well, he said.

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And they didn't send him
to some cushy hospital.

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They sent him to Broadmoor.

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And the minute he got there,

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said he took one look at the place,
asked to see the psychiatrist,

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said, "There's been
a terrible misunderstanding.

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I'm not mentally ill."

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I said, "How long have you been here for?"

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He said, "Well, if I'd just
done my time in prison

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for the original crime,
I'd have got five years.

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I've been in Broadmoor for 12 years."

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Tony said that it's a lot harder
to convince people you're sane

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than it is to convince them you're crazy.

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He said, "I thought
the best way to seem normal

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would be to talk to people
normally about normal things

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like football or what's on TV.

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I subscribe to New Scientist,

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and recently they had an article

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about how the U.S. Army was training
bumblebees to sniff out explosives.

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So I said to a nurse,

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'Did you know that the U.S. Army
is training bumblebees

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to sniff out explosives?'

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When I read my medical notes,
I saw they'd written:

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'Believes bees can sniff out explosives.'"

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(Laughter)

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He said, "You know, they're always
looking out for nonverbal clues

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to my mental state.

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But how do you sit in a sane way?

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How do you cross your legs in a sane way?

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It's just impossible."

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When Tony said that to me,

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I thought to myself,
"Am I sitting like a journalist?

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Am I crossing my legs like a journalist?"

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He said, "You know, I've got
the Stockwell Strangler on one side of me,

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and I've got the 'Tiptoe
Through the Tulips' rapist

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on the other side of me.

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So I tend to stay in my room a lot
because I find them quite frightening.

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And they take that as a sign of madness.

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They say it proves
that I'm aloof and grandiose."

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So, only in Broadmoor would not wanting
to hang out with serial killers

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be a sign of madness.

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Anyway, he seemed completely normal
to me, but what did I know?

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And when I got home I emailed
his clinician, Anthony Maden.

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I said, "What's the story?"

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And he said, "Yep.
We accept that Tony faked madness

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to get out of a prison sentence,
because his hallucinations --

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that had seemed
quite cliche to begin with --

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just vanished the minute
he got to Broadmoor.

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However, we have assessed him,

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and we've determined that what he is

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is a psychopath."

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And in fact, faking madness

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is exactly the kind of cunning
and manipulative act of a psychopath.

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It's on the checklist:
cunning, manipulative.

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So, faking your brain going wrong

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is evidence that your brain
has gone wrong.

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And I spoke to other experts,

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and they said the pinstripe
suit -- classic psychopath --

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speaks to items one
and two on the checklist:

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glibness, superficial charm
and grandiose sense of self-worth.

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And I said, "Well, but why didn't
he hang out with the other patients?"

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Classic psychopath -- it speaks
to grandiosity and also lack of empathy.

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So all the things that had seemed
most normal about Tony

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was evidence, according to his clinician,

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that he was mad in this new way.

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He was a psychopath.

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And his clinician said to me, "If you
want to know more about psychopaths,

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you can go on a psychopath-spotting course

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run by Robert Hare, who invented
the psychopath checklist."

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So I did.

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I went on a psychopath-spotting course,

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and I am now a certified --

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and I have to say, extremely adept --
psychopath spotter.

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So, here's the statistics:

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One in a hundred regular people
is a psychopath.

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So there's 1,500 people in his room.

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Fifteen of you are psychopaths.

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Although that figure rises to four percent
of CEOs and business leaders,

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so I think there's a very good chance

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there's about 30 or 40
psychopaths in this room.

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It could be carnage
by the end of the night.

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(Laughter)

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Hare said the reason why
is because capitalism at its most ruthless

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rewards psychopathic behavior --

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the lack of empathy, the glibness,

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cunning, manipulative.

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In fact, capitalism, perhaps
at its most remorseless,

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is a physical manifestation
of psychopathy.

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It's like a form of psychopathy
that's come down to affect us all.

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Hare said, "You know what?
Forget about some guy at Broadmoor

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who may or may not have faked madness.

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Who cares? That's not a big story.

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The big story," he said,
"is corporate psychopathy.

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You want to go and interview yourself
some corporate psychopaths."

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So I gave it a try.
I wrote to the Enron people.

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I said, "Could I come
and interview you in prison,

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to find out it you're psychopaths?"

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(Laughter)

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And they didn't reply.

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(Laughter)

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So I changed tack.

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I emailed "Chainsaw Al" Dunlap,

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the asset stripper from the 1990s.

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He would come into failing businesses

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and close down 30 percent
of the workforce,

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just turn American towns into ghost towns.

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And I emailed him and I said,

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"I believe you may have
a very special brain anomaly

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that makes you ... special,

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and interested in the predatory
spirit, and fearless.

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Can I come and interview you
about your special brain anomaly?"

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And he said, "Come on over!"

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(Laughter)

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So I went to Al Dunlap's
grand Florida mansion.

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It was filled with sculptures
of predatory animals.

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There were lions and tigers --
he was taking me through the garden --

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there were falcons and eagles,

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he was saying, "Over there
you've got sharks and --"

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he was saying this
in a less effeminate way --

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"You've got more sharks
and you've got tigers."

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It was like Narnia.

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(Laughter)

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And then we went into his kitchen.

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Now, Al Dunlap would be brought in
to save failing companies,

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he'd close down 30 percent
of the workforce.

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And he'd quite often
fire people with a joke.

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Like, for instance,
one famous story about him,

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somebody came up to him and said,
"I've just bought myself a new car."

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And he said, "Well,
you may have a new car,

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but I'll tell you what you
don't have -- a job."

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So in his kitchen --

243
00:11:32,722 --> 00:11:35,680
he was in there with his wife, Judy,
and his bodyguard, Sean --

244
00:11:35,704 --> 00:11:37,760
and I said, "You know
how I said in my email

245
00:11:37,784 --> 00:11:41,420
that you might have a special brain
anomaly that makes you special?"

246
00:11:41,444 --> 00:11:44,346
He said, "Yeah, it's an amazing
theory, it's like Star Trek.

247
00:11:44,370 --> 00:11:46,582
You're going where
no man has gone before."

248
00:11:46,606 --> 00:11:49,710
And I said, "Well --" (Clears throat)

249
00:11:49,734 --> 00:11:51,063
(Laughter)

250
00:11:51,087 --> 00:11:54,250
Some psychologists might say

251
00:11:54,274 --> 00:11:56,952
that this makes you --"
(Mumbles)

252
00:11:56,976 --> 00:11:58,603
(Laughter)

253
00:11:58,627 --> 00:12:00,101
And he said, "What?"

254
00:12:00,841 --> 00:12:02,145
And I said, "A psychopath."

255
00:12:02,169 --> 00:12:06,548
And I said, "I've got a list
of psychopathic traits in my pocket.

256
00:12:06,572 --> 00:12:08,731
Can I go through them with you?"

257
00:12:09,393 --> 00:12:11,486
And he looked intrigued despite himself,

258
00:12:11,510 --> 00:12:12,885
and he said, "Okay, go on."

259
00:12:12,909 --> 00:12:16,292
And I said, "Okay.
Grandiose sense of self-worth."

260
00:12:16,316 --> 00:12:19,092
Which I have to say, would
have been hard for him to deny,

261
00:12:19,116 --> 00:12:22,500
because he was standing
under a giant oil painting of himself.

262
00:12:22,524 --> 00:12:26,675
(Laughter)

263
00:12:26,699 --> 00:12:29,732
He said, "Well, you've
got to believe in you!"

264
00:12:29,756 --> 00:12:32,644
And I said, "Manipulative."

265
00:12:32,668 --> 00:12:34,361
He said, "That's leadership."

266
00:12:34,385 --> 00:12:35,386
(Laughter)

267
00:12:35,410 --> 00:12:37,816
And I said, "Shallow affect,

268
00:12:37,840 --> 00:12:40,112
an inability to experience
a range of emotions."

269
00:12:40,136 --> 00:12:43,742
He said, "Who wants to be weighed
down by some nonsense emotions?"

270
00:12:43,766 --> 00:12:45,937
So he was going down
the psychopath checklist,

271
00:12:45,961 --> 00:12:49,162
basically turning it
into "Who Moved My Cheese?"

272
00:12:49,186 --> 00:12:52,278
(Laughter)

273
00:12:52,302 --> 00:12:55,722
But I did notice something happening
to me the day I was with Al Dunlap.

274
00:12:55,746 --> 00:12:58,643
Whenever he said anything to me
that was kind of normal --

275
00:12:58,667 --> 00:13:01,610
like he said "no" to juvenile delinquency,

276
00:13:01,634 --> 00:13:03,540
he said he got accepted into West Point,

277
00:13:03,564 --> 00:13:06,419
and they don't let
delinquents in West Point.

278
00:13:06,443 --> 00:13:09,159
He said "no" to many short-term
marital relationships.

279
00:13:09,183 --> 00:13:10,843
He's only ever been married twice.

280
00:13:10,867 --> 00:13:13,814
Admittedly, his first wife
cited in her divorce papers

281
00:13:13,838 --> 00:13:16,278
that he once threatened her with a knife

282
00:13:16,302 --> 00:13:19,019
and said he always wondered
what human flesh tasted like,

283
00:13:19,043 --> 00:13:21,085
but people say stupid things to each other

284
00:13:21,109 --> 00:13:23,164
in bad marriages
in the heat of an argument,

285
00:13:23,188 --> 00:13:26,209
and his second marriage
has lasted 41 years.

286
00:13:26,233 --> 00:13:29,931
So whenever he said anything to me
that just seemed kind of non-psychopathic,

287
00:13:29,955 --> 00:13:33,098
I thought to myself, well I'm not
going to put that in my book.

288
00:13:33,608 --> 00:13:36,912
And then I realized that
becoming a psychopath spotter

289
00:13:36,936 --> 00:13:40,412
had kind of turned me
a little bit psychopathic.

290
00:13:40,436 --> 00:13:45,380
Because I was desperate to shove him
in a box marked "Psychopath."

291
00:13:45,404 --> 00:13:50,114
I was desperate to define him
by his maddest edges.

292
00:13:50,138 --> 00:13:51,340
And I realized, my God --

293
00:13:51,364 --> 00:13:53,367
this is what I've been doing for 20 years.

294
00:13:53,391 --> 00:13:55,013
It's what all journalists do.

295
00:13:55,037 --> 00:13:58,497
We travel across the world
with our notepads in our hands,

296
00:13:58,521 --> 00:14:00,316
and we wait for the gems.

297
00:14:00,982 --> 00:14:05,315
And the gems are always
the outermost aspects

298
00:14:05,339 --> 00:14:06,968
of our interviewee's personality.

299
00:14:06,992 --> 00:14:10,466
And we stitch them together
like medieval monks,

300
00:14:10,490 --> 00:14:14,017
and we leave the normal
stuff on the floor.

301
00:14:14,927 --> 00:14:17,946
And you know, this is a country
that over-diagnoses

302
00:14:17,970 --> 00:14:21,247
certain mental disorders hugely.

303
00:14:21,271 --> 00:14:22,613
Childhood bipolar --

304
00:14:22,637 --> 00:14:26,192
children as young as four
are being labeled bipolar

305
00:14:26,216 --> 00:14:28,646
because they have temper tantrums,

306
00:14:28,670 --> 00:14:32,384
which scores them high
on the bipolar checklist.

307
00:14:33,273 --> 00:14:36,236
When I got back to London, Tony phoned me.

308
00:14:37,437 --> 00:14:40,210
He said, "Why haven't you
been returning my calls?"

309
00:14:40,234 --> 00:14:43,583
I said, "Well, they say
that you're a psychopath."

310
00:14:43,607 --> 00:14:45,561
And he said, "I'm not a psychopath."

311
00:14:45,585 --> 00:14:46,744
He said, "You know what?

312
00:14:46,768 --> 00:14:49,440
One of the items on the checklist
is lack of remorse,

313
00:14:49,464 --> 00:14:52,325
but another item on the checklist
is cunning, manipulative.

314
00:14:52,349 --> 00:14:54,715
So when you say you feel
remorse for your crime,

315
00:14:54,739 --> 00:14:56,479
they say, 'Typical of the psychopath

316
00:14:56,503 --> 00:14:59,880
to cunningly say he feels
remorse when he doesn't.'

317
00:14:59,904 --> 00:15:02,972
It's like witchcraft, they turn
everything upside-down."

318
00:15:04,321 --> 00:15:06,556
He said, "I've got a tribunal coming up.

319
00:15:06,580 --> 00:15:07,820
Will you come to it?"

320
00:15:08,740 --> 00:15:09,897
So I said okay.

321
00:15:10,523 --> 00:15:12,007
So I went to his tribunal.

322
00:15:12,935 --> 00:15:16,783
And after 14 years
in Broadmoor, they let him go.

323
00:15:17,841 --> 00:15:20,646
They decided that he shouldn't
be held indefinitely

324
00:15:20,670 --> 00:15:24,360
because he scores high
on a checklist that might mean

325
00:15:24,384 --> 00:15:28,915
that he would have a greater
than average chance of recidivism.

326
00:15:29,640 --> 00:15:31,130
So they let him go.

327
00:15:31,154 --> 00:15:33,175
And outside in the corridor he said to me,

328
00:15:33,199 --> 00:15:34,354
"You know what, Jon?

329
00:15:34,841 --> 00:15:36,804
Everyone's a bit psychopathic."

330
00:15:37,620 --> 00:15:40,887
He said, "You are, I am.
Well, obviously I am."

331
00:15:42,016 --> 00:15:44,028
I said, "What are you going to do now?"

332
00:15:44,052 --> 00:15:46,235
He said, "I'm going to go to Belgium.

333
00:15:46,259 --> 00:15:47,937
There's a woman there that I fancy.

334
00:15:47,961 --> 00:15:51,916
But she's married, so I'm going to have
to get her split up from her husband."

335
00:15:51,940 --> 00:15:55,697
(Laughter)

336
00:15:56,075 --> 00:15:59,108
Anyway, that was two years ago,

337
00:15:59,132 --> 00:16:00,710
and that's where my book ended.

338
00:16:00,734 --> 00:16:05,296
And for the last 20 months,
everything was fine.

339
00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:07,361
Nothing bad happened.

340
00:16:07,385 --> 00:16:09,524
He was living with a girl outside London.

341
00:16:09,548 --> 00:16:11,646
He was, according
to Brian the Scientologist,

342
00:16:11,670 --> 00:16:14,696
making up for lost time,
which I know sounds ominous,

343
00:16:14,720 --> 00:16:16,276
but isn't necessarily ominous.

344
00:16:16,962 --> 00:16:18,859
Unfortunately, after 20 months,

345
00:16:18,883 --> 00:16:21,593
he did go back to jail for a month.

346
00:16:21,617 --> 00:16:25,773
He got into a "fracas"
in a bar, he called it.

347
00:16:26,104 --> 00:16:28,745
Ended up going to jail for a month,
which I know is bad,

348
00:16:28,769 --> 00:16:32,657
but at least a month implies
that whatever the fracas was,

349
00:16:32,681 --> 00:16:34,286
it wasn't too bad.

350
00:16:35,069 --> 00:16:36,630
And then he phoned me.

351
00:16:37,802 --> 00:16:42,038
And you know what, I think
it's right that Tony is out.

352
00:16:42,898 --> 00:16:46,053
Because you shouldn't define
people by their maddest edges.

353
00:16:46,077 --> 00:16:49,913
And what Tony is,
is he's a semi-psychopath.

354
00:16:50,332 --> 00:16:55,062
He's a gray area in a world
that doesn't like gray areas.

355
00:16:55,796 --> 00:16:59,793
But the gray areas
are where you find the complexity.

356
00:17:00,792 --> 00:17:03,213
It's where you find the humanity,

357
00:17:03,237 --> 00:17:05,111
and it's where you find the truth.

358
00:17:06,121 --> 00:17:08,229
And Tony said to me,

359
00:17:08,253 --> 00:17:12,125
"Jon, could I buy you a drink in a bar?

360
00:17:12,149 --> 00:17:15,449
I just want to thank you
for everything you've done for me."

361
00:17:15,473 --> 00:17:16,764
And I didn't go.

362
00:17:17,674 --> 00:17:19,494
What would you have done?

363
00:17:20,501 --> 00:17:21,853
Thank you.

364
00:17:21,877 --> 00:17:28,524
(Applause)