WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:13.628 English subtitles 00:00:13.628 --> 00:00:27.256 Good morning. We officially start the press conference of DiEM Democracy in Europe Movement. 00:00:27.711 --> 00:00:31.443 This is Yanis Varoufakis as you probably know. My name is Srecko Horvat. 00:00:31.735 --> 00:00:40.008 We are only one of the representatives of many people, who already joined the movement and today during the day you will see what it is about. 00:00:40.916 --> 00:00:47.244 And we have half an hour for the press conference and later we must continue with our strategical meetings. 00:00:47.907 --> 00:01:03.264 So, just a short introduction: In 1969 Theodor Adorno gave an interview for Der Spiegel. And the journalist asked the question "Herr Professor, two months ago world still seemed in order." 00:01:03.758 --> 00:01:06.815 And you know, what Adorno answered? 00:01:07.237 --> 00:01:09.367 "Not to me!" 00:01:10.075 --> 00:01:16.901 And I think it's the same: Maybe to some people the European Union seems to be fine. But for us, and especially from Yanis' experience 00:01:17.024 --> 00:01:21.198 as the Greek finance minister, it didn't seem 'in Ordnung zu sein.' 00:01:21.420 --> 00:01:42.458 Last year the German society for language announced that the three most popular words of the last year were on the first place Refugees, on the second place je suis Charlie and on the third place "Grexit." 00:01:42.764 --> 00:01:51.630 On the tenth place it was "Wir können es schaffen" I think which is Merkel's quote regarding the refugee crisis. 00:01:51.762 --> 00:01:55.130 What we want to do is actually to put "Wir können es schaffen" on the first place. 00:01:55.286 --> 00:02:01.372 And that is the reason why we are founding together with other comrades from all around Europe the Democracy in Europe Movement. 00:02:01.992 --> 00:02:07.625 But I will give you the word now and then we answer questions. I think it's better for the press conference. 00:02:08.079 --> 00:02:11.508 Well, let me welcome you to this press conference. Thank you so much for coming. 00:02:11.741 --> 00:02:18.709 It's a great honour, a privilege, to be in the heart of Europe, in Berlin. 00:02:18.858 --> 00:02:26.625 We've chosen Berlin, precisely because nothing can change in the progressive direction without 00:02:27.119 --> 00:02:32.133 the full participation of Germany in our European endeavors. 00:02:33.286 --> 00:02:40.786 Unfortunately it is the conviction of some of us, those of us, who are putting DiEM together, 00:02:40.786 --> 00:02:46.220 that the European Union is disintegrating and it is doing so quite fast! 00:02:46.737 --> 00:02:49.609 Whether you're talking about the Euro-crisis, 00:02:49.934 --> 00:02:57.481 the failure, the spectacular failure of the European Union, both as a Union and 00:02:57.941 --> 00:03:01.992 also as it's constituent members to dealing with the refugee crisis 00:03:02.182 --> 00:03:03.875 in a sensible, rational, humanist way 00:03:04.024 --> 00:03:07.672 With a possible exception of Angela Merkel, who's been very good at this. 00:03:08.306 --> 00:03:16.099 The phenomenon of the re-nationalization of ambition 00:03:16.632 --> 00:03:19.670 The nationalization of hope 00:03:20.009 --> 00:03:24.722 The fact, that we now have European gouvernments 00:03:25.005 --> 00:03:29.110 adopting fully the "Not in my backyard"-mentality 00:03:29.538 --> 00:03:32.424 Whether this is about debt , about refugees NOTE Paragraph 00:03:32.589 --> 00:03:37.322 about Schengen, about geopolitics, about our attitude to 00:03:37.534 --> 00:03:38.950 the Middle East, to Lybia, 00:03:39.460 --> 00:03:43.276 You only have to put together the words "European" 00:03:43.336 --> 00:03:45.736 "foreign" and "policy" to end up with a joke. 00:03:46.286 --> 00:03:49.499 Or the worse: "European," "Migration" and "policy" 00:03:49.548 --> 00:03:50.827 to end up, with a joke. 00:03:53.301 --> 00:03:56.455 Why is Europe disintegrating? 00:03:56.735 --> 00:04:00.411 The wrong in the thought of it, is that we have allowed 00:04:00.674 --> 00:04:04.934 for the last decade - two decades - possibly three 00:04:04.989 --> 00:04:09.243 decades, a process of de-politicizing decision-making 00:04:09.346 --> 00:04:12.467 at the heart of Europe, in our core-European institutions. 00:04:13.209 --> 00:04:16.656 And when you de-politicize a political decision process 00:04:16.947 --> 00:04:19.651 you end up with very bad politics and sub-stand-up 00:04:19.668 --> 00:04:22.382 economic politics. And now we have 00:04:22.424 --> 00:04:25.133 - this is at least our estimation - a vicious cycle. 00:04:25.269 --> 00:04:29.418 Bad policy leads to bad economic outcomes like 00:04:29.687 --> 00:04:33.130 negative interest rates, facing pension funds in Germany 00:04:33.130 --> 00:04:37.383 or deflation in Spain. These bad economic outcomes 00:04:37.667 --> 00:04:43.154 give the bureaucratic-technocratic decision making process 00:04:43.154 --> 00:04:46.855 more of an incentive, to turn to further degrees of 00:04:47.105 --> 00:04:50.928 authoritarianism. The extra-degrees of authoritarianism 00:04:50.995 --> 00:04:55.505 lead to more entrenchment in the bad policy framework. 00:04:55.790 --> 00:04:57.376 Which leads to further bad outcomes 00:04:57.977 --> 00:05:01.528 and we are in a kind of early 1930's 00:05:01.794 --> 00:05:05.400 framework of disintegration. 00:05:06.354 --> 00:05:09.620 The art to this mix, an extraordinary shock like the refugees 00:05:09.793 --> 00:05:12.976 and you end up with a situation we're facing in Europe today 00:05:13.179 --> 00:05:16.779 so we ask ourselves a very simple question: 00:05:16.997 --> 00:05:21.858 If our analysis is right, if the European Union is disintegrating 00:05:22.131 --> 00:05:24.354 because of its terrible gouvernance and architecture 00:05:24.617 --> 00:05:26.216 what is the solution? 00:05:26.274 --> 00:05:27.974 Well, we know what is not the solution: 00:05:28.745 --> 00:05:31.021 The solution is not to return to the nation-state. 00:05:31.252 --> 00:05:33.067 The solution is not to build walls, again. 00:05:33.271 --> 00:05:37.456 The solution is not "Fortress Germany," "Fortress France" 00:05:37.656 --> 00:05:41.540 "Fortress Greece" Fortress, fortresses everywhere 00:05:42.144 --> 00:05:45.644 Those walls simply reflect our security-love failures. 00:05:46.212 --> 00:05:47.333 That's not the solution. 00:05:48.199 --> 00:05:51.294 It is also not the solution - ostrich-like - to burry 00:05:51.521 --> 00:05:53.788 heads in the sand to pretend that we are 00:05:53.827 --> 00:05:55.645 on the right path and we only need to tweak our 00:05:55.683 --> 00:05:58.487 policies a little bit. So, if these are not the solutions, 00:05:58.620 --> 00:05:59.911 what are the solutions? 00:06:00.133 --> 00:06:06.863 Well, our answer to this poignant question is a search 00:06:07.115 --> 00:06:10.005 for democratizing the European Union institutions 00:06:10.665 --> 00:06:15.015 to achieve two things: Firstly to recalibrate 00:06:15.177 --> 00:06:19.294 existing institutions and policies. In order to stabilize 00:06:19.363 --> 00:06:23.699 the five crisis that are disintegrating Europe: Debt, banking, 00:06:24.150 --> 00:06:27.780 low investment everywhere, including in Germany, 00:06:28.045 --> 00:06:32.135 rising poverty, which fuels misanthropy and other nationalism 00:06:32.162 --> 00:06:33.852 and migration. 00:06:35.218 --> 00:06:36.868 And to do this, in a way 00:06:37.121 --> 00:06:39.848 that re-legitimizes political power 00:06:39.848 --> 00:06:42.179 and re-politicizes politics in Europe. 00:06:43.149 --> 00:06:44.279 How can this happen? 00:06:44.693 --> 00:06:46.703 The old-fashioned system 00:06:46.995 --> 00:06:48.845 of creating a political party 00:06:49.032 --> 00:06:50.182 in the context of a nation-state, 00:06:50.236 --> 00:06:51.896 making promises that you cannot fulfill 00:06:51.953 --> 00:06:52.963 once you are in power 00:06:52.978 --> 00:06:55.168 if you ever gain gouvernment 00:06:55.550 --> 00:06:57.130 That system is finished. 00:06:58.651 --> 00:07:01.601 I have watched mighty finance ministers including 00:07:01.646 --> 00:07:03.856 this country's 00:07:04.181 --> 00:07:06.571 being reduced to a state of helplessness 00:07:06.615 --> 00:07:08.603 in the context of European Union Council 00:07:08.603 --> 00:07:09.903 in the context of the EURO-group 00:07:10.847 --> 00:07:12.467 So, if we are right, 00:07:12.774 --> 00:07:14.434 that another political party 00:07:14.867 --> 00:07:16.667 another organization in the context of the 00:07:16.730 --> 00:07:18.830 nation-states is the wrong way to go, 00:07:19.494 --> 00:07:20.801 What is the only alternative? 00:07:20.801 --> 00:07:22.341 The only alternative is to try 00:07:22.446 --> 00:07:24.056 something you've never tried before. 00:07:24.503 --> 00:07:25.813 A political movement 00:07:26.019 --> 00:07:27.489 that starts everywhere in Europe 00:07:27.618 --> 00:07:29.358 at once, cross-border 00:07:30.134 --> 00:07:33.474 independently of prior political party-affiliations 00:07:35.174 --> 00:07:37.534 that has one simple objective: 00:07:37.979 --> 00:07:40.469 To get Europeans around a metaphorical table 00:07:41.057 --> 00:07:43.727 digital table; in forms like this one 00:07:43.864 --> 00:07:46.134 tonight. To discuss as Europeans 00:07:46.222 --> 00:07:47.412 their common problems 00:07:47.478 --> 00:07:49.123 and what we want are common solutions 00:07:49.123 --> 00:07:51.033 to these common problems to be. 00:07:51.285 --> 00:07:53.275 The hope is that, if the consensus emerges 00:07:53.366 --> 00:07:54.826 and our consensus will find ways of 00:07:54.923 --> 00:07:56.463 expressing itself on the level of 00:07:56.614 --> 00:07:58.704 the municipality, of the origin, of the state, 00:07:58.811 --> 00:08:02.131 of the European Union, 00:08:02.679 --> 00:08:04.309 We are very much looking forward 00:08:04.502 --> 00:08:05.694 to answering your many and 00:08:05.744 --> 00:08:08.864 pressing questions! 00:08:10.213 --> 00:08:12.383 So, let's start with a question here. 00:08:16.137 --> 00:08:18.897 Q: "President Erdogan of Turkey has today 00:08:19.029 --> 00:08:21.099 it seems threatened Europe saying that 00:08:21.099 --> 00:08:25.061 if Turkey doesn't receive financing 00:08:25.061 --> 00:08:28.271 he will send masses of refugees 00:08:28.410 --> 00:08:29.450 towards the EU. 00:08:29.688 --> 00:08:32.135 How do these type of threats challenge 00:08:32.135 --> 00:08:34.295 the aims that you're putting forward? 00:08:36.624 --> 00:08:38.914 A: These threats, the clear and present 00:08:39.311 --> 00:08:40.541 dangers that we're facing 00:08:40.558 --> 00:08:41.848 enhance the point. 00:08:42.459 --> 00:08:45.169 It is about time, that we decided to 00:08:45.913 --> 00:08:47.470 treat the problem as a common one. 00:08:47.470 --> 00:08:49.340 Not as a Greek problem. 00:08:49.372 --> 00:08:51.982 Not as a problem to be sorted out by 00:08:52.414 --> 00:08:54.434 turning Greece or Italy or Sicily 00:08:54.667 --> 00:08:56.747 into a concentration camp. 00:08:56.962 --> 00:09:00.822 But as the common problem of a large 00:09:01.075 --> 00:09:04.215 Union, a powerful Union, a rich Union 00:09:04.596 --> 00:09:07.416 which has failed spectacularly over the 00:09:07.705 --> 00:09:10.353 last weeks, last months, and years 00:09:10.353 --> 00:09:12.213 to deal with common problems, 00:09:12.244 --> 00:09:13.744 systemic problems - systematically. 00:09:14.037 --> 00:09:16.697 So the whole raison d'etre of what 00:09:16.772 --> 00:09:20.972 we're doing is to be able to look Mister 00:09:21.146 --> 00:09:23.456 Adorno in the eye, as Europeans 00:09:23.540 --> 00:09:25.260 with a coherent policy 00:09:25.367 --> 00:09:28.617 which is consistent also with coherent 00:09:28.666 --> 00:09:30.636 policies in the realm of solidarity 00:09:30.776 --> 00:09:32.636 within Europe 00:09:32.774 --> 00:09:34.644 Economic stabilization 00:09:34.812 --> 00:09:38.742 and an end to the race to the bottom 00:09:39.255 --> 00:09:42.065 which is forcing Europe into the bossom 00:09:42.340 --> 00:09:44.190 of disintegration. 00:09:44.239 --> 00:09:46.602 Q: It does not help if you are playing 00:09:46.602 --> 00:09:47.882 brinkmanship with these types of states 00:09:47.882 --> 00:09:50.208 does it, when you're trying to deal as 00:09:50.228 --> 00:09:52.928 a Europe, but your partners outside 00:09:52.928 --> 00:09:54.871 of Europe are willing to hold this gun 00:09:54.871 --> 00:09:56.501 to your head. 00:09:56.563 --> 00:09:58.543 A: Well, unity's strength! 00:09:58.589 --> 00:10:03.129 When a gun is being held to our head, 00:10:03.129 --> 00:10:05.168 the last thing we need is a situation 00:10:05.168 --> 00:10:06.884 where Berlin turn against Athens 00:10:06.884 --> 00:10:08.806 Athens turns against Paris 00:10:08.806 --> 00:10:10.746 Paris turns against Bratislava.. 00:10:12.430 --> 00:10:15.710 The next question, please 00:10:15.712 --> 00:10:16.732 The man behind, here. 00:10:16.732 --> 00:10:18.370 Q: You said you wanted to start a movement 00:10:18.370 --> 00:10:19.040 in all European countries at once 00:10:19.040 --> 00:10:21.910 What makes you believe that you can 00:10:21.977 --> 00:10:24.267 achieve, what all social movements, 00:10:24.272 --> 00:10:26.712 protest movements or ATTAC for example 00:10:26.729 --> 00:10:28.386 has not achieved so far 00:10:28.386 --> 00:10:29.236 and have bitterly failed? 00:10:30.305 --> 00:10:31.635 A: Absolutely nothing. 00:10:32.249 --> 00:10:34.442 But it's the only way I can wake up in 00:10:34.442 --> 00:10:36.232 the morning and be energized 00:10:36.244 --> 00:10:39.447 to that, what I think, is right. 00:10:39.447 --> 00:10:43.463 Look, Harald: 2015 was a pivotal year. 00:10:43.463 --> 00:10:47.813 It was a year, when we failed 00:10:47.822 --> 00:10:52.772 as Europe - quite substantially to deal 00:10:52.775 --> 00:10:57.365 with an economic policy, which condemned 00:10:57.599 --> 00:11:01.937 large parts of the periphery to 00:11:01.937 --> 00:11:03.657 permanent depression. 00:11:03.701 --> 00:11:04.661 Permanent depression! 00:11:04.671 --> 00:11:07.301 While at the very same time condemning 00:11:07.349 --> 00:11:09.603 surplus economies, core-economies like 00:11:09.603 --> 00:11:11.768 Germany, like Netherlands, and so on 00:11:11.768 --> 00:11:16.078 to a slow burning deflationary process 00:11:16.716 --> 00:11:20.106 which is undermining confidence in 00:11:20.202 --> 00:11:23.422 the core-countries regarding the capacity 00:11:23.448 --> 00:11:25.782 of the European Union and gouvernments 00:11:25.782 --> 00:11:27.720 in Berlin, in The Netherlands, and so on 00:11:27.720 --> 00:11:30.220 to deal with the situation. 00:11:30.255 --> 00:11:32.739 For the very first time - just let me 00:11:32.739 --> 00:11:35.889 say one thing - for the very first time 00:11:35.967 --> 00:11:39.257 there is a possibility of a coalition 00:11:39.414 --> 00:11:40.460 of democrats. 00:11:40.460 --> 00:11:42.450 Whether they are liberal democrats, 00:11:42.450 --> 00:11:44.918 social democrats, radical democrats, 00:11:44.918 --> 00:11:47.077 green democrats. 00:11:47.077 --> 00:11:50.587 2015 has pointed out to many people 00:11:50.646 --> 00:11:53.216 that our system of gouvernance in Europe 00:11:53.216 --> 00:11:54.726 is not consistent 00:11:54.726 --> 00:11:56.868 with shared prosperity. 00:11:56.868 --> 00:11:59.199 Now, maybe what we are doing is going 00:11:59.199 --> 00:12:01.710 to allow this coalition to come into 00:12:01.710 --> 00:12:04.370 being. Something that previous movements 00:12:04.492 --> 00:12:06.455 have not succeeded in doing. Remember 00:12:06.455 --> 00:12:08.849 that defenders of capitalism, of free 00:12:08.849 --> 00:12:13.528 market, propose, put forward a view 00:12:13.528 --> 00:12:18.270 that the reason that capitalism is dynamic, is because 00:12:18.270 --> 00:12:20.439 it's a trial and error-process 00:12:20.439 --> 00:12:23.703 where the market determines out of many 00:12:23.703 --> 00:12:26.976 failures what the success-score is. 00:12:26.976 --> 00:12:28.604 Well, maybe we need to try out many different 00:12:28.604 --> 00:12:30.810 movements in order to come to the 00:12:30.810 --> 00:12:33.174 one, that allows Europe to integrate 00:12:33.194 --> 00:12:34.864 as opposed to disintegrate. 00:12:34.864 --> 00:12:36.691 Maybe this movement will also be 00:12:36.691 --> 00:12:39.569 failure as you say, but we have to keep 00:12:39.569 --> 00:12:42.579 trying until the evolutionary process 00:12:42.590 --> 00:12:46.281 the historical process in Europe 00:12:46.281 --> 00:12:48.475 is put into the direction, onto the 00:12:48.475 --> 00:12:49.955 pathway towards integration 00:12:49.955 --> 00:12:54.058 And in a mode, that arrests the current 00:12:54.058 --> 00:12:55.418 deconstruction. 00:12:55.550 --> 00:12:57.632 OK - we take one more question from 00:12:57.632 --> 00:13:00.292 the right. And the we turn to the left. 00:13:02.235 --> 00:13:04.337 Q: I want to ask you about media- 00:13:04.337 --> 00:13:06.875 terminology and Orwellianism 00:13:06.875 --> 00:13:08.235 Corporate media here in Germany 00:13:08.235 --> 00:13:10.797 and in the US uses terms like 00:13:10.797 --> 00:13:12.627 structural adjustments, 00:13:12.627 --> 00:13:14.493 labour market flexibility, 00:13:14.493 --> 00:13:15.814 rescue packages, 00:13:15.814 --> 00:13:18.013 as if the whole nation was rescued, 00:13:18.013 --> 00:13:20.264 Savings program, Noam Chomsky says 00:13:20.264 --> 00:13:22.185 liberal market flexibility is another 00:13:22.185 --> 00:13:24.105 term for a person not knowing if 00:13:24.245 --> 00:13:26.085 he wakes up tomorrow with a job. 00:13:26.145 --> 00:13:28.343 So, I want to ask you if your movement 00:13:28.343 --> 00:13:30.663 will take these terminologies and change 00:13:30.751 --> 00:13:33.282 them around to provide a more accurate picture 00:13:33.282 --> 00:13:35.136 to what's happening on ground. 00:13:35.136 --> 00:13:37.817 A: Well, we should all, every single one of 00:13:37.817 --> 00:13:40.772 us, beware Orwellian Doublespeak. 00:13:40.772 --> 00:13:44.822 And the way which language is twisted 00:13:44.878 --> 00:13:49.363 in order to hide what's underlaying 00:13:49.363 --> 00:13:52.637 particular sentences and policies. 00:13:52.637 --> 00:13:56.157 And effectively to throw rays of light 00:13:56.157 --> 00:13:57.604 and transparency and what people 00:13:57.604 --> 00:14:00.989 actually mean. Would it not be good, 00:14:00.989 --> 00:14:03.103 if our language was useful in the 00:14:03.103 --> 00:14:05.855 content of a dialog, so what we meant 00:14:05.855 --> 00:14:07.165 was conveyed to our interlocutors. 00:14:07.757 --> 00:14:11.857 My favourite one is an example of 00:14:12.964 --> 00:14:15.157 such Doublespeak. During our 00:14:15.157 --> 00:14:16.171 negotiations with The Troika, 00:14:16.171 --> 00:14:20.118 the term they used for reducing pensions 00:14:20.118 --> 00:14:24.718 "Intergenerational restoration of justice" 00:14:24.771 --> 00:14:28.821 Yes, please. 00:14:33.132 --> 00:14:35.455 Q: ..."Radical Lefts?" 00:14:35.455 --> 00:14:40.744 A: If you read our manifesto - hm - 00:14:40.744 --> 00:14:44.872 it is quite clear, that it's a manifesto 00:14:44.872 --> 00:14:47.204 for the democratization of Europe and 00:14:47.204 --> 00:14:50.040 it is an open call to all democrats 00:14:50.040 --> 00:14:53.289 independently of ideologies, 00:14:53.289 --> 00:14:55.472 conceptions of the good society 00:14:55.472 --> 00:14:57.525 political party-affiliation. Now, I 00:14:57.525 --> 00:14:59.635 of course, like you, like all of us 00:14:59.635 --> 00:15:02.280 we have our particular prejudices 00:15:02.280 --> 00:15:05.318 our particular ideological take. 00:15:05.318 --> 00:15:08.288 But DiEM is not me, not Srecko, 00:15:08.288 --> 00:15:11.082 it's not any of the people who will be 00:15:11.082 --> 00:15:13.420 at the Volksbühne tonight. 00:15:13.420 --> 00:15:15.459 It's all of us together and it is 00:15:15.459 --> 00:15:19.660 it's manifest. 00:15:19.660 --> 00:15:22.101 It's as good as the word of the manifesto 00:15:22.101 --> 00:15:24.921 that it seeks to embrace every one 00:15:24.921 --> 00:15:27.636 who cares about re-democratizing 00:15:27.636 --> 00:15:29.740 putting the demos back into democracy 00:15:29.740 --> 00:15:32.781 in Europe. 00:15:32.781 --> 00:15:33.601 Q: Do you really think that Center-left / center-right can be with? 00:15:33.601 --> 00:15:36.969 A: This is, what we want. You see, 00:15:36.969 --> 00:15:42.079 Some of my greatest political friends 00:15:42.099 --> 00:15:46.589 associates, if you want "collaborators" 00:15:47.721 --> 00:15:50.748 are people who'd be described in Britain 00:15:50.748 --> 00:15:53.437 as Thatcher-Rights, as new-liberals. 00:15:53.437 --> 00:15:56.766 People, who are incensed by the 00:15:56.766 --> 00:15:58.652 vacuum of democracy, the lack of 00:15:58.652 --> 00:16:00.627 democracy in Brussels, in Frankfurt 00:16:00.627 --> 00:16:01.935 in the institutions of Europe 00:16:01.935 --> 00:16:04.833 which are doing such a bad job at managing 00:16:04.833 --> 00:16:06.865 Europe. If I can be friends with these 00:16:06.865 --> 00:16:08.340 people, I think it is perfectly possible 00:16:08.340 --> 00:16:11.585 for DiEM to embrace every one 00:16:11.585 --> 00:16:16.185 who simply agrees on the necessity 00:16:16.975 --> 00:16:20.967 of re-politicizing politics in order 00:16:20.967 --> 00:16:23.381 to arrest the economic crisis 00:16:23.381 --> 00:16:27.248 and the crisis of excessive authoritarianism 00:16:27.248 --> 00:16:29.301 in this democracy-free zone, which is 00:16:29.301 --> 00:16:33.151 Brussels and Frankfurt. 00:16:44.192 --> 00:16:46.688 Q: Re-democratization also means to 00:16:46.688 --> 00:16:48.732 defend the constitutions of the 00:16:48.732 --> 00:16:51.210 member-states? 00:16:51.210 --> 00:16:54.321 A: The problem with... Of course! 00:16:54.321 --> 00:16:56.515 We are constitutionalist-democrats. 00:16:56.515 --> 00:16:58.712 But let me say this to you Sir: 00:16:58.712 --> 00:17:02.492 The moment, we created a common currency, 00:17:02.492 --> 00:17:04.558 we transferred sovereignty 00:17:04.558 --> 00:17:08.014 from our nation-states into a black hole. 00:17:08.014 --> 00:17:09.728 We didn't create a federation, 00:17:09.728 --> 00:17:11.943 if we had created a federal gouvernment 00:17:11.943 --> 00:17:14.316 we had transferred our sovereignty 00:17:14.316 --> 00:17:17.047 from the nation-state to the federal state. 00:17:17.047 --> 00:17:19.007 And we would need a constitution 00:17:19.007 --> 00:17:21.337 to do that, that will be over-arching 00:17:21.337 --> 00:17:23.235 and towering above the constitutions 00:17:23.235 --> 00:17:24.585 of our nation-states. We didn't do that. 00:17:24.585 --> 00:17:27.586 So, now there's no sovereignty. 00:17:27.586 --> 00:17:29.385 Now there is just opacity, there is 00:17:29.385 --> 00:17:33.823 authoritarianism, there are officials 00:17:33.823 --> 00:17:37.706 that you or maybe you know who they are and 00:17:37.706 --> 00:17:39.373 what they are called, but the crashing 00:17:39.373 --> 00:17:41.674 majority of Europeans have never even 00:17:41.674 --> 00:17:43.171 seen their face or heard their names 00:17:43.171 --> 00:17:45.000 who make the important - crucial - 00:17:45.000 --> 00:17:46.821 decisions, behind their backs 00:17:46.821 --> 00:17:48.678 And the problem is 00:17:48.678 --> 00:17:50.319 that the vast majority of Europeans, 00:17:50.319 --> 00:17:53.989 whether they agree with me or not, 00:17:53.989 --> 00:17:57.290 feel that there is this lack of legitimacy 00:17:57.290 --> 00:17:59.162 that problem with this is, that in the 00:17:59.162 --> 00:18:01.689 context of an deflationary spiral 00:18:01.689 --> 00:18:04.017 with refugee crisis that are not being 00:18:04.017 --> 00:18:05.922 dealt with collectively 00:18:05.922 --> 00:18:08.090 there is a very serious danger 00:18:08.090 --> 00:18:09.902 that this discontent 00:18:09.902 --> 00:18:11.042 for the lack of legitimacy 00:18:11.042 --> 00:18:13.305 and the disrespect to the constitutions 00:18:13.305 --> 00:18:15.665 without having an over-arching federal 00:18:15.665 --> 00:18:18.361 constitution, leads to 00:18:18.361 --> 00:18:22.195 disintegration, to nationalism, to an 00:18:22.195 --> 00:18:24.266 attempt to recoil back into the 00:18:24.266 --> 00:18:26.740 nation state. In other words 00:18:26.740 --> 00:18:27.700 to put it very so simply 00:18:27.790 --> 00:18:30.580 A postmodern version of the 1930's 00:18:30.580 --> 00:18:32.108 Democrats must stop this. 00:18:32.108 --> 00:18:35.000 We must give the average people out there 00:18:35.000 --> 00:18:36.600 especially those who would never want to hear 00:18:36.600 --> 00:18:39.027 anything from me, or people like me, 00:18:39.027 --> 00:18:41.219 we must give them hope 00:18:41.219 --> 00:18:43.847 that Europe can rise up to the occasion 00:18:43.847 --> 00:18:46.099 of reclaiming constitutional democratic 00:18:46.099 --> 00:18:48.719 processes in a way that is consistent 00:18:48.719 --> 00:18:53.649 with their anxieties and aspirations 00:18:59.027 --> 00:19:04.207 Q: I still wonder why we need your movement, this new movement? As we have other political leftwing parties who fight for democracy, who fight for more integration. 00:19:11.533 --> 00:19:14.859 A: I hope, you know, it would be a dream 00:19:14.859 --> 00:19:18.424 for me, not to have to do this. 00:19:18.424 --> 00:19:21.114 It would be great, if existing movements 00:19:21.114 --> 00:19:21.867 could have done the job! 00:19:21.867 --> 00:19:23.293 But I don't feel they can and 00:19:23.293 --> 00:19:25.315 I don't believe a left-wing movement can 00:19:25.315 --> 00:19:27.395 do it. Look, I'm a left-winger, I make no bones 00:19:28.699 --> 00:19:32.183 about that, I think that you all know this, 00:19:32.183 --> 00:19:35.234 but I have to be brutally honest: 00:19:35.234 --> 00:19:37.908 The Left suffered a major defeat in the 00:19:37.908 --> 00:19:41.764 late 1980's, early 1990's. We carry a 00:19:41.764 --> 00:19:46.045 major burden of guilt. For all the crimes 00:19:46.045 --> 00:19:49.912 that we carried out as leftists, 00:19:49.912 --> 00:19:53.006 Not as individuals - the collective 00:19:53.006 --> 00:19:54.250 guilt of the left. 00:19:54.250 --> 00:19:56.926 Over the 20th Century. 00:19:56.926 --> 00:19:59.999 The Left has not succeeded 00:19:59.999 --> 00:20:03.939 since 1991 and especially after 2008 the 00:20:03.957 --> 00:20:05.909 major, the great financial crisis 00:20:05.909 --> 00:20:09.349 which it was the impetus, the trigger 00:20:09.361 --> 00:20:10.803 of the crisis of the Euro, the crisis of 00:20:10.803 --> 00:20:12.340 the European Union, now. 00:20:12.340 --> 00:20:16.300 We've failed as The Left to break out 00:20:16.300 --> 00:20:18.473 of that past to break out of that very 00:20:18.473 --> 00:20:21.893 strict confines of a minority. 00:20:21.900 --> 00:20:24.496 We did this in Greece, briefly 00:20:24.496 --> 00:20:27.557 but this was not replicated in Germany, 00:20:27.557 --> 00:20:31.369 not replicated in France. 00:20:31.369 --> 00:20:33.823 The issues that we're facing however 00:20:33.823 --> 00:20:36.249 just like in the 1970's, are issues 00:20:36.249 --> 00:20:38.019 of that are existentialist for the 00:20:38.019 --> 00:20:40.555 survival of Europe and well beyond 00:20:40.555 --> 00:20:42.428 the limitations of The Left 00:20:42.428 --> 00:20:44.627 This why we're calling for a broad 00:20:44.627 --> 00:20:47.287 coalition of liberal, social, leftist, 00:20:47.287 --> 00:20:50.488 radical, green democrats, 00:20:50.488 --> 00:20:52.379 who agree on one simple idea 00:20:52.379 --> 00:20:54.773 that the "demos" must be centrally in 00:20:54.773 --> 00:20:55.615 "Democracy." 00:20:55.615 --> 00:20:58.307 And not be treated with contempt by 00:20:58.307 --> 00:21:00.358 bureaucrats that have usurped power 00:21:00.358 --> 00:21:04.418 without anyone even having noticed. 00:21:09.807 --> 00:21:12.395 Q: As the Refugee situation is always been mentioned 00:21:12.395 --> 00:21:22.195 as a threat. I wonder if it is possible, if you view it possible for your movement as a positive thing? as a common project for europe, as population growth rather than just a threat. 00:21:28.488 --> 00:21:30.315 A: If you read our manifest, it's very clear 00:21:30.315 --> 00:21:32.511 on this: One of the epithets we have 00:21:32.511 --> 00:21:34.527 attached to the Europe of our dreams 00:21:34.527 --> 00:21:37.013 and our aspirations, is an Open Europe. 00:21:37.013 --> 00:21:39.738 A Europe that understands 00:21:39.738 --> 00:21:45.478 that fences and borders reflect insecurity 00:21:45.841 --> 00:21:48.175 And spread insecurity in the name of 00:21:48.175 --> 00:21:52.469 security. Speaking as Yanis Varoufakis now, not as DiEM 00:21:52.469 --> 00:21:54.412 because DiEM has to be genuinely democratic 00:21:54.412 --> 00:21:56.342 and therefore we have to convene sessions 00:21:56.342 --> 00:21:58.712 of this, before we have a position about that. 00:21:58.790 --> 00:22:01.239 I will speak to you now, personally 00:22:01.239 --> 00:22:03.687 not as a representative of DiEM. 00:22:03.687 --> 00:22:06.408 Two points about refugees: 00:22:06.408 --> 00:22:10.259 Firstly from the ancient Greek tradition 00:22:10.259 --> 00:22:12.807 of philoxenia when somebody knocks on 00:22:12.807 --> 00:22:15.014 your door in the middle of the night, 00:22:15.014 --> 00:22:16.851 they're wet and they're hungry 00:22:16.851 --> 00:22:19.528 and they're blooded and scares, 00:22:19.528 --> 00:22:21.526 you don't do a cost-benefit-analysis 00:22:21.526 --> 00:22:22.900 to find out whether you should open the 00:22:22.900 --> 00:22:23.190 door. 00:22:23.190 --> 00:22:24.991 You just open it! 00:22:24.991 --> 00:22:27.034 And you worry about the percussions 00:22:27.034 --> 00:22:28.960 of what you have done, much later 00:22:28.960 --> 00:22:32.719 after that person is dry, fed, watered 00:22:32.719 --> 00:22:35.000 and not scared. 00:22:35.000 --> 00:22:36.113 Point number one. 00:22:36.113 --> 00:22:38.233 Point number two: 00:22:38.233 --> 00:22:40.446 Europe must come to terms with its 00:22:40.446 --> 00:22:43.243 history. For hundreds of years we have 00:22:43.243 --> 00:22:44.916 populated the Earth. 00:22:44.916 --> 00:22:48.369 We've exported Europeans to The Americas 00:22:48.369 --> 00:22:51.212 to Australia, to Asia, to Africa. 00:22:51.212 --> 00:22:54.534 We've colonized. We've killed off tribes 00:22:54.534 --> 00:22:57.379 and have taken over the world. 00:22:57.849 --> 00:23:00.953 That was fine, it was part of the great European exodus. 00:23:00.953 --> 00:23:03.389 Well, you know what? Guess what! 00:23:03.389 --> 00:23:06.290 The demographics of the planet are now 00:23:06.290 --> 00:23:08.254 changing and Europe is going to be 00:23:08.254 --> 00:23:10.026 repopulated to a very large extent 00:23:10.026 --> 00:23:11.348 by people from outside of Europe. 00:23:11.348 --> 00:23:13.190 We better accept that. 00:23:13.190 --> 00:23:14.741 Learn to live with it 00:23:14.741 --> 00:23:17.207 and learn to draw from it 00:23:17.207 --> 00:23:19.346 all the energy that we can. 00:23:19.346 --> 00:23:23.503 We are Aging Europe 00:23:23.503 --> 00:23:26.642 and concentrate on how to handle this. 00:23:26.642 --> 00:23:30.491 What polices are needed in order to make 00:23:30.491 --> 00:23:34.069 this dynamic transition. 00:23:34.069 --> 00:23:36.045 Come much closer to humanist values 00:23:36.045 --> 00:23:40.865 and European values. 00:23:54.376 --> 00:23:59.016 Q: While reading your manifesto I saw some short-term goals like transparency and openness 00:24:04.504 --> 00:24:09.074 and some midle-term goals like constitutional assembling directly 00:24:09.629 --> 00:24:13.669 from the people of Europe 00:24:14.431 --> 00:24:17.328 Would you please adress the means you have in order of leverage to achieve those 00:24:17.448 --> 00:24:17.998 goals, in a european context? 00:24:18.760 --> 00:24:20.985 A: We have no means whatsoever. 00:24:20.985 --> 00:24:22.546 We're starting tonight 00:24:22.546 --> 00:24:24.574 Before tonight, we don't exist. 00:24:24.574 --> 00:24:27.017 They're who have no leverage. 00:24:27.017 --> 00:24:30.664 This is the whole point about a movement, 00:24:30.664 --> 00:24:33.940 you state principals, you state objectives 00:24:33.940 --> 00:24:36.096 you call upon fellow citizens from all 00:24:36.096 --> 00:24:39.443 over Europe to join in, if they think 00:24:39.443 --> 00:24:43.520 that there is a lacuna, ther is a dearth, that 00:24:43.520 --> 00:24:44.820 there is a lack and that they feel that 00:24:44.820 --> 00:24:50.200 they need to come with you and promote 00:24:50.787 --> 00:24:53.858 collectively those objectives 00:24:53.858 --> 00:24:56.370 So, our leverage will be absolutely 00:24:56.370 --> 00:24:58.868 proportional to the number of people 00:24:58.868 --> 00:25:02.071 that join DiEM and take an active part 00:25:02.071 --> 00:25:05.101 in the pursuit of our common objectives 00:25:05.101 --> 00:25:10.181 That's democracy. 00:25:12.006 --> 00:25:16.236 Q: Again from Lesbos. Now you find a very militarization in Lesbos.. 00:25:30.321 --> 00:25:34.491 What is your answer to find a way out of this situation, because you don't find Europe, nor institutions only volunteers are working. 00:25:44.022 --> 00:25:48.022 I want to hear from you more concrete, what you can send appeal here in the evening, to go another way, not militarization, to find a political way to solve the problem, Its really time to act now. 00:25:59.289 --> 00:26:01.444 A: Precisely! This failure that you just 00:26:01.444 --> 00:26:04.512 described is a fundamental reason why 00:26:04.512 --> 00:26:07.356 we believe: We need a new movement 00:26:07.356 --> 00:26:09.757 in Europe, that offers Europeans an 00:26:09.757 --> 00:26:11.477 opportunities to discuss this as Europeans 00:26:11.477 --> 00:26:15.330 not as Greeks or as Germans or as Slovaks. 00:26:15.330 --> 00:26:17.668 But allow me, this is not the time to 00:26:17.668 --> 00:26:20.536 articulate the fully fledged policy 00:26:20.536 --> 00:26:22.290 response, but allow me to make a 00:26:22.290 --> 00:26:24.843 very simple point: Last summer 00:26:24.843 --> 00:26:26.157 our gouvernment in Greece - since you 00:26:26.157 --> 00:26:28.497 talked about Lesbos - 00:26:28.517 --> 00:26:32.827 was forced to capitulate to a deal 00:26:33.419 --> 00:26:36.625 that lends our bankrupt gouvernment 00:26:36.625 --> 00:26:39.569 another 85 billion. Before that 00:26:39.569 --> 00:26:41.297 we were forced as a nation to accept 00:26:41.297 --> 00:26:43.387 against the protestations of many of us 00:26:43.387 --> 00:26:47.364 on the streets, 130 billion in 2012. 00:26:47.364 --> 00:26:49.433 In 2010 we were forced to accept another 00:26:49.433 --> 00:26:53.331 110 billion, all supposedly as part of a 00:26:53.331 --> 00:26:55.192 solidarity to Greece - solidarity for 00:26:55.192 --> 00:26:57.952 the bankers - but anyway 00:26:58.012 --> 00:27:00.541 If all those tens and hundreds of billions 00:27:00.541 --> 00:27:03.018 can be forced down the throat of a nation 00:27:03.018 --> 00:27:07.436 that simply can't afford it, surely 00:27:07.436 --> 00:27:08.732 we could find one or two, by which 00:27:08.732 --> 00:27:11.752 to make this humanitarian part of the 00:27:12.039 --> 00:27:16.192 crisis go away - in the most humane way, 00:27:16.192 --> 00:27:19.180 in a way that does not constitute a 00:27:19.180 --> 00:27:22.357 stepping stone towards militarization. 00:27:22.357 --> 00:27:24.458 The fact that we are squabbling 00:27:24.458 --> 00:27:26.191 over the few hundreds of thousands of 00:27:26.191 --> 00:27:29.195 euros, when at the very same time 00:27:29.195 --> 00:27:31.126 bailouts of hundreds of billions 00:27:31.126 --> 00:27:34.136 of toxic loans are being banded about 00:27:34.136 --> 00:27:37.497 with abandon, this is another sign of 00:27:37.497 --> 00:27:39.910 the disintegration of the European Union 00:27:39.910 --> 00:27:42.043 History is going to pass very harsh 00:27:42.043 --> 00:27:45.553 judgement on us 00:27:48.688 --> 00:27:53.348 Q: You always talk about more democratic practic? Are we more democratic e.g. Communist 00:27:54.383 --> 00:27:59.283 Party of Greece called Greece to leave European Union 00:28:01.264 --> 00:28:03.809 A: Let me put it very sincerely: 00:28:03.809 --> 00:28:05.671 Maybe we should not have created the 00:28:05.671 --> 00:28:07.145 European Union the way we did. 00:28:07.145 --> 00:28:08.643 I'm convinced we shouldn't 00:28:08.643 --> 00:28:11.295 we should have either not create it or 00:28:11.295 --> 00:28:15.171 very differently, but once we've created 00:28:15.171 --> 00:28:17.460 it, the disintegration of the European 00:28:17.460 --> 00:28:21.321 Union is going to bring about 00:28:21.321 --> 00:28:26.101 a very rapid collapse that will resemble 00:28:26.101 --> 00:28:28.466 in terrible ways, what happened in the 00:28:28.466 --> 00:28:32.230 1930's and what I respond to my friends 00:28:32.230 --> 00:28:35.006 in the Communist Party, radical parts of 00:28:35.006 --> 00:28:36.728 the left, who are articulating the 00:28:36.728 --> 00:28:38.853 position, that maybe disintegration, 00:28:38.853 --> 00:28:40.901 going back to a national currency, to 00:28:40.901 --> 00:28:43.181 an nation state and so on, is that 00:28:43.181 --> 00:28:44.793 the solution, is I remind them 00:28:44.793 --> 00:28:47.625 that, when we had such disintegration in 00:28:47.625 --> 00:28:49.157 1930's, it was not humanism 00:28:49.157 --> 00:28:51.376 and it was not the left, that benefited 00:28:51.376 --> 00:28:54.728 It was the fascists, and it was the Nazis 00:28:54.728 --> 00:28:59.468 and Europe fell into a terrible trap 00:29:00.028 --> 00:29:02.994 with immense human costs 00:29:02.994 --> 00:29:04.364 Do we want the same? 00:29:04.364 --> 00:29:06.856 I certainly don't. 00:29:06.856 --> 00:29:11.516 We have time for one last question. 00:29:15.574 --> 00:29:19.714 Those who are accredited we invite to ask 00:29:19.835 --> 00:29:25.645 later. We also organized live-stream. 00:29:37.156 --> 00:29:42.816 Q: How wil you engage people from small countries in DiEM? 00:29:49.546 --> 00:29:52.792 A: We are great believers in acting locally, 00:29:52.792 --> 00:29:54.612 in the context of an over-arching 00:29:54.612 --> 00:29:58.340 pan-European agenda. So, there will be 00:29:58.340 --> 00:30:01.065 many different layers of participation 00:30:01.065 --> 00:30:03.006 There will be an application, an app 00:30:03.006 --> 00:30:05.917 on the peoples' phone; there will be a 00:30:05.917 --> 00:30:08.242 website, so the digital platform, which 00:30:08.242 --> 00:30:10.371 is these days essentially in anything 00:30:10.371 --> 00:30:12.499 one does at the collective or even at the 00:30:12.499 --> 00:30:16.657 individual level, those are digital 00:30:16.657 --> 00:30:20.446 platforms will allow people in Slovenia 00:30:20.446 --> 00:30:23.398 in Ljubljana, to find out who is around 00:30:23.398 --> 00:30:27.019 them, that is engaged. Our idea is to move 00:30:27.019 --> 00:30:30.149 very quickly from these forms of digital 00:30:30.149 --> 00:30:34.284 communication to town-hall events 00:30:34.284 --> 00:30:38.025 in towns, in villages, in cities. 00:30:38.025 --> 00:30:39.811 On themes, that we decide collectively 00:30:39.811 --> 00:30:42.523 throughout Europe. Leading to bigger 00:30:42.523 --> 00:30:45.705 events like the one we're having today 00:30:45.705 --> 00:30:47.182 On a rolling basis 00:30:47.182 --> 00:30:49.601 so, that the digital communication can 00:30:49.601 --> 00:30:52.010 become analog and take the form of 00:30:52.010 --> 00:30:55.634 face-to-face meetings, at the level of 00:30:55.634 --> 00:31:00.204 the local, the state, and the pan-European 00:31:00.550 --> 00:31:02.545 Thanks a lot. Maybe Yanis, you want a 00:31:02.545 --> 00:31:04.144 final message or.. 00:31:04.144 --> 00:31:06.156 Well, the final message is, that 00:31:06.156 --> 00:31:07.712 there's absolutely no doubt 00:31:07.712 --> 00:31:10.563 that, what we are doing with DiEM 00:31:10.563 --> 00:31:13.653 seems quite Utopian. 00:31:13.653 --> 00:31:16.640 The idea of starting a European movement 00:31:16.640 --> 00:31:20.188 not from a particular country 00:31:20.188 --> 00:31:23.189 not from any existing organizational 00:31:23.269 --> 00:31:26.342 basis, but from a horizontal perspective 00:31:26.342 --> 00:31:29.069 throughout Europe, in order to change Europe 00:31:29.069 --> 00:31:32.332 and to stop the descent into this hole 00:31:32.332 --> 00:31:37.068 that disintegration is opening up for us 00:31:37.068 --> 00:31:39.786 It sounds pretty far fetched, and it may 00:31:39.786 --> 00:31:41.639 very well fail, but what is the 00:31:41.639 --> 00:31:45.451 alternative? The alternative is either 00:31:45.451 --> 00:31:47.516 to keep pretending, as the powers that be 00:31:47.516 --> 00:31:50.561 in the European Union are doing 00:31:50.561 --> 00:31:52.314 that they can maintain this European 00:31:52.314 --> 00:31:53.394 Union, that we now have. 00:31:53.394 --> 00:31:55.721 They can't - that's far more Utopian than 00:31:55.721 --> 00:31:58.916 what we are doing! 00:31:58.916 --> 00:32:02.356 And finally: The alternative to this 00:32:02.356 --> 00:32:06.372 Utopian project is a horrible dystopia 00:32:06.372 --> 00:32:11.062 that is going to punish severely everyone 00:32:11.372 --> 00:32:16.142 except those, who flourish and find ways 00:32:16.218 --> 00:32:19.958 of profiting it - Profiting from human 00:32:19.958 --> 00:32:20.838 disasters. 00:32:20.838 --> 00:32:26.098 Thank you very much!