0:00:00.000,0:00:13.628 English subtitles 0:00:13.628,0:00:27.256 Good morning. We officially start the press conference [br]of DiEM Democracy in Europe Movement. 0:00:27.711,0:00:31.443 This is Yanis Varoufakis as you probably [br]know. My name is Srecko Horvat. 0:00:31.735,0:00:40.008 We are only one of the representatives of many [br]people, who already joined the movement [br]and today during the day you will see what it is about. 0:00:40.916,0:00:47.244 And we have half an hour for the press conference [br]and later we must continue with our strategical meetings. 0:00:47.907,0:01:03.264 So, just a short introduction: In 1969 Theodor Adorno gave an interview [br]for Der Spiegel. And the journalist asked the question [br]"Herr Professor, two months ago world still seemed in order." 0:01:03.758,0:01:06.815 And you know, what Adorno answered? 0:01:07.237,0:01:09.367 "Not to me!" 0:01:10.075,0:01:16.901 And I think it's the same: Maybe to some people the [br]European Union seems to be fine. But for us, and [br]especially from Yanis' experience 0:01:17.024,0:01:21.198 as the Greek finance minister, it didn't seem 'in Ordnung zu sein.' 0:01:21.420,0:01:42.458 Last year the German society for language announced [br]that the three most popular words of the last year were [br]on the first place Refugees, on the second place je suis Charlie and on the third place "Grexit." 0:01:42.764,0:01:51.630 On the tenth place it was "Wir können es [br]schaffen" I think which is Merkel's quote [br]regarding the refugee crisis. 0:01:51.762,0:01:55.130 What we want to do is actually to put "Wir [br]können es schaffen" on the first place. 0:01:55.286,0:02:01.372 And that is the reason why we are founding [br]together with other comrades from all around Europe the Democracy in Europe Movement. 0:02:01.992,0:02:07.625 But I will give you the word now and then [br]we answer questions. I think it's better for [br]the press conference. 0:02:08.079,0:02:11.508 Well, let me welcome you to this press conference. [br]Thank you so much for coming. 0:02:11.741,0:02:18.709 It's a great honour, a privilege, to be in [br]the heart of Europe, in Berlin. 0:02:18.858,0:02:26.625 We've chosen Berlin, precisely because [br]nothing can change in the progressive [br]direction without 0:02:27.119,0:02:32.133 the full participation of Germany in [br]our European endeavors. 0:02:33.286,0:02:40.786 Unfortunately it is the conviction of some of [br]us, those of us, who are putting DiEM together, 0:02:40.786,0:02:46.220 that the European Union is disintegrating [br]and it is doing so quite fast! 0:02:46.737,0:02:49.609 Whether you're talking about the Euro-crisis, 0:02:49.934,0:02:57.481 the failure, the spectacular failure of [br]the European Union, both as a Union and 0:02:57.941,0:03:01.992 also as it's constituent members to [br]dealing with the refugee crisis 0:03:02.182,0:03:03.875 in a sensible, rational, humanist way 0:03:04.024,0:03:07.672 With a possible exception of Angela [br]Merkel, who's been very good at this. 0:03:08.306,0:03:16.099 The phenomenon of the [br]re-nationalization of ambition 0:03:16.632,0:03:19.670 The nationalization of hope 0:03:20.009,0:03:24.722 The fact, that we now have European gouvernments 0:03:25.005,0:03:29.110 adopting fully the "Not in my backyard"-mentality 0:03:29.538,0:03:32.424 Whether this is about debt , about refugees 0:03:32.589,0:03:37.322 about Schengen, about geopolitics, [br]about our attitude to 0:03:37.534,0:03:38.950 the Middle East, to Lybia, 0:03:39.460,0:03:43.276 You only have to put together the words "European" 0:03:43.336,0:03:45.736 "foreign" and "policy" to end up with a joke. 0:03:46.286,0:03:49.499 Or the worse: "European," "Migration" and "policy" 0:03:49.548,0:03:50.827 to end up, with a joke. 0:03:53.301,0:03:56.455 Why is Europe disintegrating? 0:03:56.735,0:04:00.411 The wrong in the thought of it, is that we have allowed 0:04:00.674,0:04:04.934 for the last decade - two decades - possibly three 0:04:04.989,0:04:09.243 decades, a process of de-politicizing decision-making 0:04:09.346,0:04:12.467 at the heart of Europe, in our core-European institutions. 0:04:13.209,0:04:16.656 And when you de-politicize a political decision process 0:04:16.947,0:04:19.651 you end up with very bad politics and sub-stand-up 0:04:19.668,0:04:22.382 economic politics. And now we have 0:04:22.424,0:04:25.133 - this is at least our estimation - a vicious cycle. 0:04:25.269,0:04:29.418 Bad policy leads to bad economic outcomes like 0:04:29.687,0:04:33.130 negative interest rates, facing pension funds in Germany 0:04:33.130,0:04:37.383 or deflation in Spain. These bad economic outcomes 0:04:37.667,0:04:43.154 give the bureaucratic-technocratic decision making process 0:04:43.154,0:04:46.855 more of an incentive, to turn to further degrees of 0:04:47.105,0:04:50.928 authoritarianism. The extra-degrees of authoritarianism 0:04:50.995,0:04:55.505 lead to more entrenchment in the bad policy framework. 0:04:55.790,0:04:57.376 Which leads to further bad outcomes 0:04:57.977,0:05:01.528 and we are in a kind of early 1930's 0:05:01.794,0:05:05.400 framework of disintegration. 0:05:06.354,0:05:09.620 The art to this mix, an extraordinary shock like the refugees 0:05:09.793,0:05:12.976 and you end up with a situation we're facing in Europe today 0:05:13.179,0:05:16.779 so we ask ourselves a very simple question: 0:05:16.997,0:05:21.858 If our analysis is right, if the European Union is disintegrating 0:05:22.131,0:05:24.354 because of its terrible gouvernance and architecture 0:05:24.617,0:05:26.216 what is the solution? 0:05:26.274,0:05:27.974 Well, we know what is not the solution: 0:05:28.745,0:05:31.021 The solution is not to return to the nation-state. 0:05:31.252,0:05:33.067 The solution is not to build walls, again. 0:05:33.271,0:05:37.456 The solution is not "Fortress Germany," "Fortress France" 0:05:37.656,0:05:41.540 "Fortress Greece" Fortress, fortresses everywhere 0:05:42.144,0:05:45.644 Those walls simply reflect our security-love failures. 0:05:46.212,0:05:47.333 That's not the solution. 0:05:48.199,0:05:51.294 It is also not the solution - ostrich-like - to burry 0:05:51.521,0:05:53.788 heads in the sand to pretend that we are 0:05:53.827,0:05:55.645 on the right path and we only need to tweak our 0:05:55.683,0:05:58.487 policies a little bit. So, if these are not the solutions, 0:05:58.620,0:05:59.911 what are the solutions? 0:06:00.133,0:06:06.863 Well, our answer to this poignant question is a search 0:06:07.115,0:06:10.005 for democratizing the European Union institutions 0:06:10.665,0:06:15.015 to achieve two things: Firstly to recalibrate 0:06:15.177,0:06:19.294 existing institutions and policies. In order to stabilize 0:06:19.363,0:06:23.699 the five crisis that are disintegrating Europe: Debt, banking, 0:06:24.150,0:06:27.780 low investment everywhere, including in Germany, 0:06:28.045,0:06:32.135 rising poverty, which fuels misanthropy and other nationalism 0:06:32.162,0:06:33.852 and migration. 0:06:35.218,0:06:36.868 And to do this, in a way 0:06:37.121,0:06:39.848 that re-legitimizes political power 0:06:39.848,0:06:42.179 and re-politicizes politics in Europe. 0:06:43.149,0:06:44.279 How can this happen? 0:06:44.693,0:06:46.703 The old-fashioned system 0:06:46.995,0:06:48.845 of creating a political party 0:06:49.032,0:06:50.182 in the context of a nation-state, 0:06:50.236,0:06:51.896 making promises that you cannot fulfill 0:06:51.953,0:06:52.963 once you are in power 0:06:52.978,0:06:55.168 if you ever gain gouvernment 0:06:55.550,0:06:57.130 That system is finished. 0:06:58.651,0:07:01.601 I have watched mighty finance ministers including 0:07:01.646,0:07:03.856 this country's 0:07:04.181,0:07:06.571 being reduced to a state of helplessness 0:07:06.615,0:07:08.603 in the context of European Union Council 0:07:08.603,0:07:09.903 in the context of the EURO-group 0:07:10.847,0:07:12.467 So, if we are right, 0:07:12.774,0:07:14.434 that another political party 0:07:14.867,0:07:16.667 another organization in the context of the 0:07:16.730,0:07:18.830 nation-states is the wrong way to go, 0:07:19.494,0:07:20.801 What is the only alternative? 0:07:20.801,0:07:22.341 The only alternative is to try 0:07:22.446,0:07:24.056 something you've never tried before. 0:07:24.503,0:07:25.813 A political movement 0:07:26.019,0:07:27.489 that starts everywhere in Europe 0:07:27.618,0:07:29.358 at once, cross-border 0:07:30.134,0:07:33.474 independently of prior political party-affiliations 0:07:35.174,0:07:37.534 that has one simple objective: 0:07:37.979,0:07:40.469 To get Europeans around a metaphorical table 0:07:41.057,0:07:43.727 digital table; in forms like this one 0:07:43.864,0:07:46.134 tonight. To discuss as Europeans 0:07:46.222,0:07:47.412 their common problems 0:07:47.478,0:07:49.123 and what we want are common solutions 0:07:49.123,0:07:51.033 to these common problems to be. 0:07:51.285,0:07:53.275 The hope is that, if the consensus emerges 0:07:53.366,0:07:54.826 and our consensus will find ways of 0:07:54.923,0:07:56.463 expressing itself on the level of 0:07:56.614,0:07:58.704 the municipality, of the origin, of the state, 0:07:58.811,0:08:02.131 of the European Union, 0:08:02.679,0:08:04.309 We are very much looking forward 0:08:04.502,0:08:05.694 to answering your many and 0:08:05.744,0:08:08.864 pressing questions! 0:08:10.213,0:08:12.383 So, let's start with a question here. 0:08:16.137,0:08:18.897 Q: "President Erdogan of Turkey has today 0:08:19.029,0:08:21.099 it seems threatened Europe saying that 0:08:21.099,0:08:25.061 if Turkey doesn't receive financing 0:08:25.061,0:08:28.271 he will send masses of refugees 0:08:28.410,0:08:29.450 towards the EU. 0:08:29.688,0:08:32.135 How do these type of threats challenge 0:08:32.135,0:08:34.295 the aims that you're putting forward? 0:08:36.624,0:08:38.914 A: These threats, the clear and present 0:08:39.311,0:08:40.541 dangers that we're facing 0:08:40.558,0:08:41.848 enhance the point. 0:08:42.459,0:08:45.169 It is about time, that we decided to 0:08:45.913,0:08:47.470 treat the problem as a common one. 0:08:47.470,0:08:49.340 Not as a Greek problem. 0:08:49.372,0:08:51.982 Not as a problem to be sorted out by 0:08:52.414,0:08:54.434 turning Greece or Italy or Sicily 0:08:54.667,0:08:56.747 into a concentration camp. 0:08:56.962,0:09:00.822 But as the common problem of a large 0:09:01.075,0:09:04.215 Union, a powerful Union, a rich Union 0:09:04.596,0:09:07.416 which has failed spectacularly over the 0:09:07.705,0:09:10.353 last weeks, last months, and years 0:09:10.353,0:09:12.213 to deal with common problems, 0:09:12.244,0:09:13.744 systemic problems - systematically. 0:09:14.037,0:09:16.697 So the whole raison d'etre of what 0:09:16.772,0:09:20.972 we're doing is to be able to look Mister 0:09:21.146,0:09:23.456 Adorno in the eye, as Europeans 0:09:23.540,0:09:25.260 with a coherent policy 0:09:25.367,0:09:28.617 which is consistent also with coherent 0:09:28.666,0:09:30.636 policies in the realm of solidarity 0:09:30.776,0:09:32.636 within Europe 0:09:32.774,0:09:34.644 Economic stabilization 0:09:34.812,0:09:38.742 and an end to the race to the bottom 0:09:39.255,0:09:42.065 which is forcing Europe into the bossom 0:09:42.340,0:09:44.190 of disintegration. 0:09:44.239,0:09:46.602 Q: It does not help if you are playing 0:09:46.602,0:09:47.882 brinkmanship with these types of states 0:09:47.882,0:09:50.208 does it, when you're trying to deal as 0:09:50.228,0:09:52.928 a Europe, but your partners outside 0:09:52.928,0:09:54.871 of Europe are willing to hold this gun 0:09:54.871,0:09:56.501 to your head. 0:09:56.563,0:09:58.543 A: Well, unity's strength! 0:09:58.589,0:10:03.129 When a gun is being held to our head, 0:10:03.129,0:10:05.168 the last thing we need is a situation 0:10:05.168,0:10:06.884 where Berlin turn against Athens 0:10:06.884,0:10:08.806 Athens turns against Paris 0:10:08.806,0:10:10.746 Paris turns against Bratislava.. 0:10:12.430,0:10:15.710 The next question, please 0:10:15.712,0:10:16.732 The man behind, here. 0:10:16.732,0:10:18.370 Q: You said you wanted to start a movement 0:10:18.370,0:10:19.040 in all European countries at once 0:10:19.040,0:10:21.910 What makes you believe that you can 0:10:21.977,0:10:24.267 achieve, what all social movements, 0:10:24.272,0:10:26.712 protest movements or ATTAC for example 0:10:26.729,0:10:28.386 has not achieved so far 0:10:28.386,0:10:29.236 and have bitterly failed? 0:10:30.305,0:10:31.635 A: Absolutely nothing. 0:10:32.249,0:10:34.442 But it's the only way I can wake up in 0:10:34.442,0:10:36.232 the morning and be energized 0:10:36.244,0:10:39.447 to that, what I think, is right. 0:10:39.447,0:10:43.463 Look, Harald: 2015 was a pivotal year. 0:10:43.463,0:10:47.813 It was a year, when we failed 0:10:47.822,0:10:52.772 as Europe - quite substantially to deal 0:10:52.775,0:10:57.365 with an economic policy, which condemned 0:10:57.599,0:11:01.937 large parts of the periphery to 0:11:01.937,0:11:03.657 permanent depression. 0:11:03.701,0:11:04.661 Permanent depression! 0:11:04.671,0:11:07.301 While at the very same time condemning 0:11:07.349,0:11:09.603 surplus economies, core-economies like 0:11:09.603,0:11:11.768 Germany, like Netherlands, and so on 0:11:11.768,0:11:16.078 to a slow burning deflationary process 0:11:16.716,0:11:20.106 which is undermining confidence in 0:11:20.202,0:11:23.422 the core-countries regarding the capacity 0:11:23.448,0:11:25.782 of the European Union and gouvernments 0:11:25.782,0:11:27.720 in Berlin, in The Netherlands, and so on 0:11:27.720,0:11:30.220 to deal with the situation. 0:11:30.255,0:11:32.739 For the very first time - just let me 0:11:32.739,0:11:35.889 say one thing - for the very first time 0:11:35.967,0:11:39.257 there is a possibility of a coalition 0:11:39.414,0:11:40.460 of democrats. 0:11:40.460,0:11:42.450 Whether they are liberal democrats, 0:11:42.450,0:11:44.918 social democrats, radical democrats, 0:11:44.918,0:11:47.077 green democrats. 0:11:47.077,0:11:50.587 2015 has pointed out to many people 0:11:50.646,0:11:53.216 that our system of gouvernance in Europe 0:11:53.216,0:11:54.726 is not consistent 0:11:54.726,0:11:56.868 with shared prosperity. 0:11:56.868,0:11:59.199 Now, maybe what we are doing is going 0:11:59.199,0:12:01.710 to allow this coalition to come into 0:12:01.710,0:12:04.370 being. Something that previous movements 0:12:04.492,0:12:06.455 have not succeeded in doing. Remember 0:12:06.455,0:12:08.849 that defenders of capitalism, of free 0:12:08.849,0:12:13.528 market, propose, put forward a view 0:12:13.528,0:12:18.270 that the reason that capitalism is dynamic, is because 0:12:18.270,0:12:20.439 it's a trial and error-process 0:12:20.439,0:12:23.703 where the market determines out of many 0:12:23.703,0:12:26.976 failures what the success-score is. 0:12:26.976,0:12:28.604 Well, maybe we need to try out many different 0:12:28.604,0:12:30.810 movements in order to come to the 0:12:30.810,0:12:33.174 one, that allows Europe to integrate 0:12:33.194,0:12:34.864 as opposed to disintegrate. 0:12:34.864,0:12:36.691 Maybe this movement will also be 0:12:36.691,0:12:39.569 failure as you say, but we have to keep 0:12:39.569,0:12:42.579 trying until the evolutionary process 0:12:42.590,0:12:46.281 the historical process in Europe 0:12:46.281,0:12:48.475 is put into the direction, onto the 0:12:48.475,0:12:49.955 pathway towards integration 0:12:49.955,0:12:54.058 And in a mode, that arrests the current 0:12:54.058,0:12:55.418 deconstruction. 0:12:55.550,0:12:57.632 OK - we take one more question from 0:12:57.632,0:13:00.292 the right. And the we turn to the left. 0:13:02.235,0:13:04.337 Q: I want to ask you about media- 0:13:04.337,0:13:06.875 terminology and Orwellianism 0:13:06.875,0:13:08.235 Corporate media here in Germany 0:13:08.235,0:13:10.797 and in the US uses terms like 0:13:10.797,0:13:12.627 structural adjustments, 0:13:12.627,0:13:14.493 labour market flexibility, 0:13:14.493,0:13:15.814 rescue packages, 0:13:15.814,0:13:18.013 as if the whole nation was rescued, 0:13:18.013,0:13:20.264 Savings program, Noam Chomsky says 0:13:20.264,0:13:22.185 liberal market flexibility is another 0:13:22.185,0:13:24.105 term for a person not knowing if 0:13:24.245,0:13:26.085 he wakes up tomorrow with a job. 0:13:26.145,0:13:28.343 So, I want to ask you if your movement 0:13:28.343,0:13:30.663 will take these terminologies and change 0:13:30.751,0:13:33.282 them around to provide a more accurate picture 0:13:33.282,0:13:35.136 to what's happening on ground. 0:13:35.136,0:13:37.817 A: Well, we should all, every single one of 0:13:37.817,0:13:40.772 us, beware Orwellian Doublespeak. 0:13:40.772,0:13:44.822 And the way which language is twisted 0:13:44.878,0:13:49.363 in order to hide what's underlaying 0:13:49.363,0:13:52.637 particular sentences and policies. 0:13:52.637,0:13:56.157 And effectively to throw rays of light 0:13:56.157,0:13:57.604 and transparency and what people 0:13:57.604,0:14:00.989 actually mean. Would it not be good, 0:14:00.989,0:14:03.103 if our language was useful in the 0:14:03.103,0:14:05.855 content of a dialog, so what we meant 0:14:05.855,0:14:07.165 was conveyed to our interlocutors. 0:14:07.757,0:14:11.857 My favourite one is an example of 0:14:12.964,0:14:15.157 such Doublespeak. During our 0:14:15.157,0:14:16.171 negotiations with The Troika, 0:14:16.171,0:14:20.118 the term they used for reducing pensions 0:14:20.118,0:14:24.718 "Intergenerational restoration of justice" 0:14:24.771,0:14:28.821 Yes, please. 0:14:33.132,0:14:35.455 Q: ..."Radical Lefts?" 0:14:35.455,0:14:40.744 A: If you read our manifesto - hm - 0:14:40.744,0:14:44.872 it is quite clear, that it's a manifesto 0:14:44.872,0:14:47.204 for the democratization of Europe and 0:14:47.204,0:14:50.040 it is an open call to all democrats 0:14:50.040,0:14:53.289 independently of ideologies, 0:14:53.289,0:14:55.472 conceptions of the good society 0:14:55.472,0:14:57.525 political party-affiliation. Now, I 0:14:57.525,0:14:59.635 of course, like you, like all of us 0:14:59.635,0:15:02.280 we have our particular prejudices 0:15:02.280,0:15:05.318 our particular ideological take. 0:15:05.318,0:15:08.288 But DiEM is not me, not Srecko, 0:15:08.288,0:15:11.082 it's not any of the people who will be 0:15:11.082,0:15:13.420 at the Volksbühne tonight. 0:15:13.420,0:15:15.459 It's all of us together and it is 0:15:15.459,0:15:19.660 it's manifest. 0:15:19.660,0:15:22.101 It's as good as the word of the manifesto 0:15:22.101,0:15:24.921 that it seeks to embrace every one 0:15:24.921,0:15:27.636 who cares about re-democratizing 0:15:27.636,0:15:29.740 putting the demos back into democracy 0:15:29.740,0:15:32.781 in Europe. 0:15:32.781,0:15:33.601 Q: Do you really think that Center-left / center-right can be with? 0:15:33.601,0:15:36.969 A: This is, what we want. You see, 0:15:36.969,0:15:42.079 Some of my greatest political friends 0:15:42.099,0:15:46.589 associates, if you want "collaborators" 0:15:47.721,0:15:50.748 are people who'd be described in Britain 0:15:50.748,0:15:53.437 as Thatcher-Rights, as new-liberals. 0:15:53.437,0:15:56.766 People, who are incensed by the 0:15:56.766,0:15:58.652 vacuum of democracy, the lack of 0:15:58.652,0:16:00.627 democracy in Brussels, in Frankfurt 0:16:00.627,0:16:01.935 in the institutions of Europe 0:16:01.935,0:16:04.833 which are doing such a bad job at managing 0:16:04.833,0:16:06.865 Europe. If I can be friends with these 0:16:06.865,0:16:08.340 people, I think it is perfectly possible 0:16:08.340,0:16:11.585 for DiEM to embrace every one 0:16:11.585,0:16:16.185 who simply agrees on the necessity 0:16:16.975,0:16:20.967 of re-politicizing politics in order 0:16:20.967,0:16:23.381 to arrest the economic crisis 0:16:23.381,0:16:27.248 and the crisis of excessive authoritarianism 0:16:27.248,0:16:29.301 in this democracy-free zone, which is 0:16:29.301,0:16:33.151 Brussels and Frankfurt. 0:16:44.192,0:16:46.688 Q: Re-democratization also means to 0:16:46.688,0:16:48.732 defend the constitutions of the 0:16:48.732,0:16:51.210 member-states? 0:16:51.210,0:16:54.321 A: The problem with... Of course! 0:16:54.321,0:16:56.515 We are constitutionalist-democrats. 0:16:56.515,0:16:58.712 But let me say this to you Sir: 0:16:58.712,0:17:02.492 The moment, we created a common currency, 0:17:02.492,0:17:04.558 we transferred sovereignty 0:17:04.558,0:17:08.014 from our nation-states into a black hole. 0:17:08.014,0:17:09.728 We didn't create a federation, 0:17:09.728,0:17:11.943 if we had created a federal gouvernment 0:17:11.943,0:17:14.316 we had transferred our sovereignty 0:17:14.316,0:17:17.047 from the nation-state to the federal state. 0:17:17.047,0:17:19.007 And we would need a constitution 0:17:19.007,0:17:21.337 to do that, that will be over-arching 0:17:21.337,0:17:23.235 and towering above the constitutions 0:17:23.235,0:17:24.585 of our nation-states. We didn't do that. 0:17:24.585,0:17:27.586 So, now there's no sovereignty. 0:17:27.586,0:17:29.385 Now there is just opacity, there is 0:17:29.385,0:17:33.823 authoritarianism, there are officials 0:17:33.823,0:17:37.706 that you or maybe you know who they are and 0:17:37.706,0:17:39.373 what they are called, but the crashing 0:17:39.373,0:17:41.674 majority of Europeans have never even 0:17:41.674,0:17:43.171 seen their face or heard their names 0:17:43.171,0:17:45.000 who make the important - crucial - 0:17:45.000,0:17:46.821 decisions, behind their backs 0:17:46.821,0:17:48.678 And the problem is 0:17:48.678,0:17:50.319 that the vast majority of Europeans, 0:17:50.319,0:17:53.989 whether they agree with me or not, 0:17:53.989,0:17:57.290 feel that there is this lack of legitimacy 0:17:57.290,0:17:59.162 that problem with this is, that in the 0:17:59.162,0:18:01.689 context of an deflationary spiral 0:18:01.689,0:18:04.017 with refugee crisis that are not being 0:18:04.017,0:18:05.922 dealt with collectively 0:18:05.922,0:18:08.090 there is a very serious danger 0:18:08.090,0:18:09.902 that this discontent 0:18:09.902,0:18:11.042 for the lack of legitimacy 0:18:11.042,0:18:13.305 and the disrespect to the constitutions 0:18:13.305,0:18:15.665 without having an over-arching federal 0:18:15.665,0:18:18.361 constitution, leads to 0:18:18.361,0:18:22.195 disintegration, to nationalism, to an 0:18:22.195,0:18:24.266 attempt to recoil back into the 0:18:24.266,0:18:26.740 nation state. In other words 0:18:26.740,0:18:27.700 to put it very so simply 0:18:27.790,0:18:30.580 A postmodern version of the 1930's 0:18:30.580,0:18:32.108 Democrats must stop this. 0:18:32.108,0:18:35.000 We must give the average people out there 0:18:35.000,0:18:36.600 especially those who would never want to hear 0:18:36.600,0:18:39.027 anything from me, or people like me, 0:18:39.027,0:18:41.219 we must give them hope 0:18:41.219,0:18:43.847 that Europe can rise up to the occasion 0:18:43.847,0:18:46.099 of reclaiming constitutional democratic 0:18:46.099,0:18:48.719 processes in a way that is consistent 0:18:48.719,0:18:53.649 with their anxieties and aspirations 0:18:59.027,0:19:04.207 Q: I still wonder why we need your movement, this new movement? As we have other political leftwing parties who fight for democracy, who fight for more integration. 0:19:11.533,0:19:14.859 A: I hope, you know, it would be a dream 0:19:14.859,0:19:18.424 for me, not to have to do this. 0:19:18.424,0:19:21.114 It would be great, if existing movements 0:19:21.114,0:19:21.867 could have done the job! 0:19:21.867,0:19:23.293 But I don't feel they can and 0:19:23.293,0:19:25.315 I don't believe a left-wing movement can 0:19:25.315,0:19:27.395 do it. Look, I'm a left-winger, I make no bones 0:19:28.699,0:19:32.183 about that, I think that you all know this, 0:19:32.183,0:19:35.234 but I have to be brutally honest: 0:19:35.234,0:19:37.908 The Left suffered a major defeat in the 0:19:37.908,0:19:41.764 late 1980's, early 1990's. We carry a 0:19:41.764,0:19:46.045 major burden of guilt. For all the crimes 0:19:46.045,0:19:49.912 that we carried out as leftists, 0:19:49.912,0:19:53.006 Not as individuals - the collective 0:19:53.006,0:19:54.250 guilt of the left. 0:19:54.250,0:19:56.926 Over the 20th Century. 0:19:56.926,0:19:59.999 The Left has not succeeded 0:19:59.999,0:20:03.939 since 1991 and especially after 2008 the 0:20:03.957,0:20:05.909 major, the great financial crisis 0:20:05.909,0:20:09.349 which it was the impetus, the trigger 0:20:09.361,0:20:10.803 of the crisis of the Euro, the crisis of 0:20:10.803,0:20:12.340 the European Union, now. 0:20:12.340,0:20:16.300 We've failed as The Left to break out 0:20:16.300,0:20:18.473 of that past to break out of that very 0:20:18.473,0:20:21.893 strict confines of a minority. 0:20:21.900,0:20:24.496 We did this in Greece, briefly 0:20:24.496,0:20:27.557 but this was not replicated in Germany, 0:20:27.557,0:20:31.369 not replicated in France. 0:20:31.369,0:20:33.823 The issues that we're facing however 0:20:33.823,0:20:36.249 just like in the 1970's, are issues 0:20:36.249,0:20:38.019 of that are existentialist for the 0:20:38.019,0:20:40.555 survival of Europe and well beyond 0:20:40.555,0:20:42.428 the limitations of The Left 0:20:42.428,0:20:44.627 This why we're calling for a broad 0:20:44.627,0:20:47.287 coalition of liberal, social, leftist, 0:20:47.287,0:20:50.488 radical, green democrats, 0:20:50.488,0:20:52.379 who agree on one simple idea 0:20:52.379,0:20:54.773 that the "demos" must be centrally in 0:20:54.773,0:20:55.615 "Democracy." 0:20:55.615,0:20:58.307 And not be treated with contempt by 0:20:58.307,0:21:00.358 bureaucrats that have usurped power 0:21:00.358,0:21:04.418 without anyone even having noticed. 0:21:09.807,0:21:12.395 Q: As the Refugee situation is always been mentioned 0:21:12.395,0:21:22.195 as a threat. I wonder if it is possible, if you view it possible for your movement as a positive thing? as a common project for europe, as population growth rather than just a threat. 0:21:28.488,0:21:30.315 A: If you read our manifest, it's very clear 0:21:30.315,0:21:32.511 on this: One of the epithets we have 0:21:32.511,0:21:34.527 attached to the Europe of our dreams 0:21:34.527,0:21:37.013 and our aspirations, is an Open Europe. 0:21:37.013,0:21:39.738 A Europe that understands 0:21:39.738,0:21:45.478 that fences and borders reflect insecurity 0:21:45.841,0:21:48.175 And spread insecurity in the name of 0:21:48.175,0:21:52.469 security. Speaking as Yanis Varoufakis now, not as DiEM 0:21:52.469,0:21:54.412 because DiEM has to be genuinely democratic 0:21:54.412,0:21:56.342 and therefore we have to convene sessions 0:21:56.342,0:21:58.712 of this, before we have a position about that. 0:21:58.790,0:22:01.239 I will speak to you now, personally 0:22:01.239,0:22:03.687 not as a representative of DiEM. 0:22:03.687,0:22:06.408 Two points about refugees: 0:22:06.408,0:22:10.259 Firstly from the ancient Greek tradition 0:22:10.259,0:22:12.807 of philoxenia when somebody knocks on 0:22:12.807,0:22:15.014 your door in the middle of the night, 0:22:15.014,0:22:16.851 they're wet and they're hungry 0:22:16.851,0:22:19.528 and they're blooded and scares, 0:22:19.528,0:22:21.526 you don't do a cost-benefit-analysis 0:22:21.526,0:22:22.900 to find out whether you should open the 0:22:22.900,0:22:23.190 door. 0:22:23.190,0:22:24.991 You just open it! 0:22:24.991,0:22:27.034 And you worry about the percussions 0:22:27.034,0:22:28.960 of what you have done, much later 0:22:28.960,0:22:32.719 after that person is dry, fed, watered 0:22:32.719,0:22:35.000 and not scared. 0:22:35.000,0:22:36.113 Point number one. 0:22:36.113,0:22:38.233 Point number two: 0:22:38.233,0:22:40.446 Europe must come to terms with its 0:22:40.446,0:22:43.243 history. For hundreds of years we have 0:22:43.243,0:22:44.916 populated the Earth. 0:22:44.916,0:22:48.369 We've exported Europeans to The Americas 0:22:48.369,0:22:51.212 to Australia, to Asia, to Africa. 0:22:51.212,0:22:54.534 We've colonized. We've killed off tribes 0:22:54.534,0:22:57.379 and have taken over the world. 0:22:57.849,0:23:00.953 That was fine, it was part of the great European exodus. 0:23:00.953,0:23:03.389 Well, you know what? Guess what! 0:23:03.389,0:23:06.290 The demographics of the planet are now 0:23:06.290,0:23:08.254 changing and Europe is going to be 0:23:08.254,0:23:10.026 repopulated to a very large extent 0:23:10.026,0:23:11.348 by people from outside of Europe. 0:23:11.348,0:23:13.190 We better accept that. 0:23:13.190,0:23:14.741 Learn to live with it 0:23:14.741,0:23:17.207 and learn to draw from it 0:23:17.207,0:23:19.346 all the energy that we can. 0:23:19.346,0:23:23.503 We are Aging Europe 0:23:23.503,0:23:26.642 and concentrate on how to handle this. 0:23:26.642,0:23:30.491 What polices are needed in order to make 0:23:30.491,0:23:34.069 this dynamic transition. 0:23:34.069,0:23:36.045 Come much closer to humanist values 0:23:36.045,0:23:40.865 and European values. 0:23:54.376,0:23:59.016 Q: While reading your manifesto I saw some short-term goals like transparency and openness 0:24:04.504,0:24:09.074 and some midle-term goals like constitutional assembling directly 0:24:09.629,0:24:13.669 from the people of Europe 0:24:14.431,0:24:17.328 Would you please adress the means you have in order of leverage to achieve those 0:24:17.448,0:24:17.998 goals, in a european context? 0:24:18.760,0:24:20.985 A: We have no means whatsoever. 0:24:20.985,0:24:22.546 We're starting tonight 0:24:22.546,0:24:24.574 Before tonight, we don't exist. 0:24:24.574,0:24:27.017 They're who have no leverage. 0:24:27.017,0:24:30.664 This is the whole point about a movement, 0:24:30.664,0:24:33.940 you state principals, you state objectives 0:24:33.940,0:24:36.096 you call upon fellow citizens from all 0:24:36.096,0:24:39.443 over Europe to join in, if they think 0:24:39.443,0:24:43.520 that there is a lacuna, ther is a dearth, that 0:24:43.520,0:24:44.820 there is a lack and that they feel that 0:24:44.820,0:24:50.200 they need to come with you and promote 0:24:50.787,0:24:53.858 collectively those objectives 0:24:53.858,0:24:56.370 So, our leverage will be absolutely 0:24:56.370,0:24:58.868 proportional to the number of people 0:24:58.868,0:25:02.071 that join DiEM and take an active part 0:25:02.071,0:25:05.101 in the pursuit of our common objectives 0:25:05.101,0:25:10.181 That's democracy. 0:25:12.006,0:25:16.236 Q: Again from Lesbos. Now you find a very militarization in Lesbos.. 0:25:30.321,0:25:34.491 What is your answer to find a way out of this situation, [br]because you don't find Europe, nor institutions only volunteers are working. 0:25:44.022,0:25:48.022 I want to hear from you more concrete, what you can send appeal here in the evening, to go another way, not militarization, to find a political way to solve the problem, Its really time to act now. 0:25:59.289,0:26:01.444 A: Precisely! This failure that you just 0:26:01.444,0:26:04.512 described is a fundamental reason why 0:26:04.512,0:26:07.356 we believe: We need a new movement 0:26:07.356,0:26:09.757 in Europe, that offers Europeans an 0:26:09.757,0:26:11.477 opportunities to discuss this as Europeans 0:26:11.477,0:26:15.330 not as Greeks or as Germans or as Slovaks. 0:26:15.330,0:26:17.668 But allow me, this is not the time to 0:26:17.668,0:26:20.536 articulate the fully fledged policy 0:26:20.536,0:26:22.290 response, but allow me to make a 0:26:22.290,0:26:24.843 very simple point: Last summer 0:26:24.843,0:26:26.157 our gouvernment in Greece - since you 0:26:26.157,0:26:28.497 talked about Lesbos - 0:26:28.517,0:26:32.827 was forced to capitulate to a deal 0:26:33.419,0:26:36.625 that lends our bankrupt gouvernment 0:26:36.625,0:26:39.569 another 85 billion. Before that 0:26:39.569,0:26:41.297 we were forced as a nation to accept 0:26:41.297,0:26:43.387 against the protestations of many of us 0:26:43.387,0:26:47.364 on the streets, 130 billion in 2012. 0:26:47.364,0:26:49.433 In 2010 we were forced to accept another 0:26:49.433,0:26:53.331 110 billion, all supposedly as part of a 0:26:53.331,0:26:55.192 solidarity to Greece - solidarity for 0:26:55.192,0:26:57.952 the bankers - but anyway 0:26:58.012,0:27:00.541 If all those tens and hundreds of billions 0:27:00.541,0:27:03.018 can be forced down the throat of a nation 0:27:03.018,0:27:07.436 that simply can't afford it, surely 0:27:07.436,0:27:08.732 we could find one or two, by which 0:27:08.732,0:27:11.752 to make this humanitarian part of the 0:27:12.039,0:27:16.192 crisis go away - in the most humane way, 0:27:16.192,0:27:19.180 in a way that does not constitute a 0:27:19.180,0:27:22.357 stepping stone towards militarization. 0:27:22.357,0:27:24.458 The fact that we are squabbling 0:27:24.458,0:27:26.191 over the few hundreds of thousands of 0:27:26.191,0:27:29.195 euros, when at the very same time 0:27:29.195,0:27:31.126 bailouts of hundreds of billions 0:27:31.126,0:27:34.136 of toxic loans are being banded about 0:27:34.136,0:27:37.497 with abandon, this is another sign of 0:27:37.497,0:27:39.910 the disintegration of the European Union 0:27:39.910,0:27:42.043 History is going to pass very harsh 0:27:42.043,0:27:45.553 judgement on us 0:27:48.688,0:27:53.348 Q: You always talk about more democratic practic? Are we more democratic e.g. Communist 0:27:54.383,0:27:59.283 Party of Greece called Greece to leave European Union 0:28:01.264,0:28:03.809 A: Let me put it very sincerely: 0:28:03.809,0:28:05.671 Maybe we should not have created the 0:28:05.671,0:28:07.145 European Union the way we did. 0:28:07.145,0:28:08.643 I'm convinced we shouldn't 0:28:08.643,0:28:11.295 we should have either not create it or 0:28:11.295,0:28:15.171 very differently, but once we've created 0:28:15.171,0:28:17.460 it, the disintegration of the European 0:28:17.460,0:28:21.321 Union is going to bring about 0:28:21.321,0:28:26.101 a very rapid collapse that will resemble 0:28:26.101,0:28:28.466 in terrible ways, what happened in the 0:28:28.466,0:28:32.230 1930's and what I respond to my friends 0:28:32.230,0:28:35.006 in the Communist Party, radical parts of 0:28:35.006,0:28:36.728 the left, who are articulating the 0:28:36.728,0:28:38.853 position, that maybe disintegration, 0:28:38.853,0:28:40.901 going back to a national currency, to 0:28:40.901,0:28:43.181 an nation state and so on, is that 0:28:43.181,0:28:44.793 the solution, is I remind them 0:28:44.793,0:28:47.625 that, when we had such disintegration in 0:28:47.625,0:28:49.157 1930's, it was not humanism 0:28:49.157,0:28:51.376 and it was not the left, that benefited 0:28:51.376,0:28:54.728 It was the fascists, and it was the Nazis 0:28:54.728,0:28:59.468 and Europe fell into a terrible trap 0:29:00.028,0:29:02.994 with immense human costs 0:29:02.994,0:29:04.364 Do we want the same? 0:29:04.364,0:29:06.856 I certainly don't. 0:29:06.856,0:29:11.516 We have time for one last question. 0:29:15.574,0:29:19.714 Those who are accredited we invite to ask 0:29:19.835,0:29:25.645 later. We also organized live-stream. 0:29:37.156,0:29:42.816 Q: How wil you engage people from small countries in DiEM? 0:29:49.546,0:29:52.792 A: We are great believers in acting locally, 0:29:52.792,0:29:54.612 in the context of an over-arching 0:29:54.612,0:29:58.340 pan-European agenda. So, there will be 0:29:58.340,0:30:01.065 many different layers of participation 0:30:01.065,0:30:03.006 There will be an application, an app 0:30:03.006,0:30:05.917 on the peoples' phone; there will be a 0:30:05.917,0:30:08.242 website, so the digital platform, which 0:30:08.242,0:30:10.371 is these days essentially in anything 0:30:10.371,0:30:12.499 one does at the collective or even at the 0:30:12.499,0:30:16.657 individual level, those are digital 0:30:16.657,0:30:20.446 platforms will allow people in Slovenia 0:30:20.446,0:30:23.398 in Ljubljana, to find out who is around 0:30:23.398,0:30:27.019 them, that is engaged. Our idea is to move 0:30:27.019,0:30:30.149 very quickly from these forms of digital 0:30:30.149,0:30:34.284 communication to town-hall events 0:30:34.284,0:30:38.025 in towns, in villages, in cities. 0:30:38.025,0:30:39.811 On themes, that we decide collectively 0:30:39.811,0:30:42.523 throughout Europe. Leading to bigger 0:30:42.523,0:30:45.705 events like the one we're having today 0:30:45.705,0:30:47.182 On a rolling basis 0:30:47.182,0:30:49.601 so, that the digital communication can 0:30:49.601,0:30:52.010 become analog and take the form of 0:30:52.010,0:30:55.634 face-to-face meetings, at the level of 0:30:55.634,0:31:00.204 the local, the state, and the pan-European 0:31:00.550,0:31:02.545 Thanks a lot. Maybe Yanis, you want a 0:31:02.545,0:31:04.144 final message or.. 0:31:04.144,0:31:06.156 Well, the final message is, that 0:31:06.156,0:31:07.712 there's absolutely no doubt 0:31:07.712,0:31:10.563 that, what we are doing with DiEM 0:31:10.563,0:31:13.653 seems quite Utopian. 0:31:13.653,0:31:16.640 The idea of starting a European movement 0:31:16.640,0:31:20.188 not from a particular country 0:31:20.188,0:31:23.189 not from any existing organizational 0:31:23.269,0:31:26.342 basis, but from a horizontal perspective 0:31:26.342,0:31:29.069 throughout Europe, in order to change Europe 0:31:29.069,0:31:32.332 and to stop the descent into this hole 0:31:32.332,0:31:37.068 that disintegration is opening up for us 0:31:37.068,0:31:39.786 It sounds pretty far fetched, and it may 0:31:39.786,0:31:41.639 very well fail, but what is the 0:31:41.639,0:31:45.451 alternative? The alternative is either 0:31:45.451,0:31:47.516 to keep pretending, as the powers that be 0:31:47.516,0:31:50.561 in the European Union are doing 0:31:50.561,0:31:52.314 that they can maintain this European 0:31:52.314,0:31:53.394 Union, that we now have. 0:31:53.394,0:31:55.721 They can't - that's far more Utopian than 0:31:55.721,0:31:58.916 what we are doing! 0:31:58.916,0:32:02.356 And finally: The alternative to this 0:32:02.356,0:32:06.372 Utopian project is a horrible dystopia 0:32:06.372,0:32:11.062 that is going to punish severely everyone 0:32:11.372,0:32:16.142 except those, who flourish and find ways 0:32:16.218,0:32:19.958 of profiting it - Profiting from human 0:32:19.958,0:32:20.838 disasters. 0:32:20.838,0:32:26.098 Thank you very much!