WEBVTT 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 00:00:04.267 --> 00:00:07.884 So Marcelo, here we have the Amazon map 00:00:07.884 --> 00:00:11.937 that shows us the deforestation area data, 00:00:11.937 --> 00:00:14.601 which you are showing to us, 00:00:14.601 --> 00:00:18.046 Can you explain what is the relationship between this information 00:00:18.046 --> 00:00:21.415 and the theme we are working on our at this Camp: "evidence and influence". 00:00:21.415 --> 00:00:23.036 How do you think these two things are related? 00:00:23.036 --> 00:00:25.262 What are your thoughts about these subjects? 00:00:25.262 --> 00:00:27.851 This map is a work made with satellite images, 00:00:27.851 --> 00:00:32.145 and you are able, nowadays, to measure, for example, 00:00:32.145 --> 00:00:34.870 how much forest we have lost. 00:00:34.870 --> 00:00:38.948 Despite, that we have lost so much forest, 00:00:38.948 --> 00:00:44.210 we still have...This is still the largest tropical forest area on the planet. 00:00:44.210 --> 00:00:49.795 It has essential importance for several environmental reasons, mainly, those linked with the regulation of the climate. 00:00:49.795 --> 00:00:52.339 Because for example, the oxygen produced and sent into the atmosphere. 00:00:56.717 --> 00:01:00.448 This map also excludes some evidence 00:01:00.448 --> 00:01:04.365 which we cannot see on a map of this scale and 00:01:08.976 --> 00:01:12.551 that is the 'forest degradation'. 00:01:12.551 --> 00:01:14.930 This is not the total forest area deforestation, but 00:01:14.930 --> 00:01:18.155 it is the cutting down of some forest trees or species. 00:01:18.155 --> 00:01:22.737 So, 'forest degradation' is actually liked with some specific species? 00:01:22.737 --> 00:01:28.436 Exactly, specific species, for example, that are used in the lumber industry or the coal industry. 00:01:28.436 --> 00:01:31.436 In other words, specific species (of trees) are used for the coal industries. 00:01:31.436 --> 00:01:35.394 We have the coal industry in Brazil and those 00:01:35.394 --> 00:01:37.566 producing iron ore. These industries are clearing the 00:01:37.566 --> 00:01:44.916 remains of forest areas in some regions, mainly in Pará state region. 00:01:46.392 --> 00:01:51.100 Behind this destructive work, 00:01:51.100 --> 00:01:53.980 we have a very bad, a violent reality. 00:01:53.980 --> 00:02:00.598 In fact, the greatest disputation in the Amazon, today, 00:02:00.598 --> 00:02:04.056 Is the natural resources disputation. 00:02:04.056 --> 00:02:09.730 This dispute, generally, is been carried out in a violent way. 00:02:09.730 --> 00:02:13.138 As you can see on this map, for example, 00:02:13.138 --> 00:02:16.360 this is a 'protected areas' map, 00:02:16.360 --> 00:02:21.178 we have several protected areas and indigenous territories too. 00:02:21.178 --> 00:02:24.178 In these indigenous territories, the indigenous people 00:02:24.178 --> 00:02:27.500 have more ability to protecting their areas, 00:02:27.500 --> 00:02:30.453 it is not the same in 'protected areas'. 00:02:30.453 --> 00:02:35.192 In Brazil, like in another South American countries, 00:02:35.192 --> 00:02:37.391 there are specific protected areas that are demarcated 00:02:37.391 --> 00:02:40.110 to support the survival of local communities. 00:02:40.110 --> 00:02:44.634 Those communities are vulnerable because 00:02:44.634 --> 00:02:48.507 the areas were created, but there is no governance. 00:02:48.507 --> 00:02:51.685 The government is not there helping these communities. 00:02:51.685 --> 00:02:55.431 We have a lot of different examples... I.. 00:02:55.431 --> 00:03:00.323 I've lost one of my friends here, José Cláudio and Maria, his wife. 00:03:00.323 --> 00:03:03.140 She was killed because she was with him. 00:03:03.140 --> 00:03:05.296 Where did it happen? 00:03:05.296 --> 00:03:09.935 It happened in 'Nova Pichuna', in Pará state, in 2011, 00:03:09.935 --> 00:03:16.518 four months after his interview in TEDx, 00:03:16.518 --> 00:03:19.563 when he reported that he had been issued a death threat. 00:03:19.563 --> 00:03:23.496 Why did he die? He died because he used to guard the forest, 00:03:23.496 --> 00:03:26.490 his piece of land, the land the government gave him. 00:03:26.490 --> 00:03:29.293 it was a tiny piece of land, with 100 ha (0.38 mi²). 00:03:29.293 --> 00:03:34.034 The lumbermen and farms in this area are looking for 00:03:34.050 --> 00:03:37.294 the lumbermen are looking for the wood. 00:03:41.670 --> 00:03:46.975 These areas were donated by the government to the local communities for their using in sustainable practices. 00:03:46.975 --> 00:03:51.447 The farmers want to rent these lands for cattle, 00:03:51.447 --> 00:03:54.386 so they can pull together various tiny areas to make a large farm 00:03:54.386 --> 00:03:59.527 or to cast out the local farmers and take their properties. 00:03:59.527 --> 00:04:04.892 My friend Jose was denouncing this and he was killed because of this. 00:04:04.892 --> 00:04:07.627 José Claudio's death felt by a lot of Brazilian people? 00:04:07.627 --> 00:04:12.175 Activists across the whole country were moved. 00:04:12.175 --> 00:04:14.879 Exactly. Because it is very hard to see threats like this one: 00:04:14.879 --> 00:04:17.442 the freedom of speech, the intimidation. 00:04:17.442 --> 00:04:19.944 I've recently heard a description from 00:04:19.944 --> 00:04:23.333 José Cláudio murders' judgement and 00:04:23.333 --> 00:04:29.530 the politics in the Brazilian region 00:04:29.530 --> 00:04:40.392 the problems are solved locally, with little capacity for understanding in regions of the country. 00:04:40.392 --> 00:04:43.827 Where I live, we do not get a lot of these dynamics. 00:04:43.827 --> 00:04:46.493 José Cláudio's story is a emblematic case, 00:04:46.493 --> 00:04:51.154 because of the fact that his speech was made at TEDx, 00:04:51.154 --> 00:04:57.437 this made him more well known among people, 00:04:57.437 --> 00:05:00.670 a public figure: his speech is on internet, 00:05:00.670 --> 00:05:04.721 many people have heard his story. 00:05:04.721 --> 00:05:08.570 Like him, we have a lot of leaders who have been murdered NOTE Paragraph 00:05:08.570 --> 00:05:12.529 and they have continuously been murdered. Other people have been murdered after him 00:05:12.529 --> 00:05:15.752 but those people are not known. So, the big question is 00:05:15.752 --> 00:05:22.934 how to make public the stories of those people who are dying 00:05:22.934 --> 00:05:27.309 The fact of knowing though 00:05:27.309 --> 00:05:29.715 like, in the case of José Cláudio, whose situation was more known, 00:05:29.715 --> 00:05:32.481 unfortunately, it was not possible to prevent his death. 00:05:32.481 --> 00:05:35.940 No. Actually, I want to ask you 00:05:35.940 --> 00:05:40.874 We have information and we are able to point out the problem, but 00:05:40.874 --> 00:05:45.384 How could we invert the dynamics and use the information we have 00:05:45.384 --> 00:05:48.515 in order to do a more effective activism in these Amazon regions? 00:05:48.515 --> 00:05:52.924 I think, actually, we have information, but 00:05:52.924 --> 00:05:55.441 it is not used as it should be. 00:05:55.441 --> 00:05:59.466 We should show more this, make pressure on the government. 00:05:59.466 --> 00:06:02.747 The government knows: the 'comissão pastoral da terra', 00:06:02.747 --> 00:06:07.122 an organization administrated by the catholic church has a list of people under threat. 00:06:07.122 --> 00:06:12.209 If you take this list you can check like this: this one is dead, this is dead, dead.... 00:06:12.209 --> 00:06:14.891 and this is unacceptable! 00:06:14.891 --> 00:06:17.573 This is, in fact, unacceptable! 00:06:17.573 --> 00:06:20.255 Not just the government, but also the society has to do something about it. 00:06:20.255 --> 00:06:25.495 When we think about 'the government',we think just about the executive government, but, 00:06:25.495 --> 00:06:31.946 what about the judiciary? Less than 1% these murder cases were solved. 00:06:31.946 --> 00:06:35.569 We have to change this reality. 00:06:35.569 --> 00:06:38.945 Why is it happening? Are they waiting judgments? 00:06:38.945 --> 00:06:42.249 Or, these cases never got into a court? 00:06:42.249 --> 00:06:45.728 The police never collect enough evidence of the murders, 00:06:45.728 --> 00:06:49.789 there is corruption in the police and in the judiciary. 00:06:49.789 --> 00:06:55.433 The prosecutors who accuse are not good, 00:06:55.433 --> 00:06:58.763 they are not able to accomplish the prosecution. 00:06:58.763 --> 00:07:04.160 Then, It is not possible to point to the masterminds of the crimes, or the murders. 00:07:04.160 --> 00:07:06.279 And It was what happened in the case of José Cláudio, right? 00:07:06.279 --> 00:07:08.398 Yes, it is exactly what happened in the case of José Cláudio. 00:07:10.519 --> 00:07:13.108 And the same thing happened in an even more well known case, that is the case of Sister Dorothy. 00:07:13.108 --> 00:07:16.810 In 2005, Sister Dorothy was killed. 00:07:16.810 --> 00:07:23.946 A Sister... It is hard to talk about it.. because.. 00:07:23.946 --> 00:07:28.822 She was 70 years old... 00:07:28.822 --> 00:07:32.235 She was a friend... 00:07:32.235 --> 00:07:36.330 And she has been killed with the Bible in hands, you know? 00:07:36.330 --> 00:07:39.921 We are aware of who are the masterminds.. 00:07:39.921 --> 00:07:43.449 And Is not it possible to gather enough proof? Just one of them has been indicted, 00:07:43.449 --> 00:07:48.930 and that is really sad, you know? We cannot accept that! loosing friends, and.... 00:07:48.930 --> 00:07:57.858 And they are people who are important to keep as this world's treasure! That is unacceptable! 00:07:57.858 --> 00:08:05.812 It is a country where a 70 year old lady, a sister, a nun died and 00:08:05.812 --> 00:08:11.937 It is not possible to prosecute the real masterminds. 00:08:11.937 --> 00:08:14.588 In the Amazon we call it a 'consortium' 00:08:14.588 --> 00:08:16.920 Usually, people are killed by a 'consortium' 00:08:16.920 --> 00:08:19.935 The most well known people, those who really generate problems, 00:08:19.935 --> 00:08:21.908 The real troubles makers are the ones who work illegally. 00:08:25.927 --> 00:08:33.116 What they do is to create a 'consortium' between several farmers, loggers.and whoever. 00:08:33.116 --> 00:08:35.167 They get together to pay the murders and 00:08:35.167 --> 00:08:36.905 one member of the consortium is selected to 00:08:36.905 --> 00:08:41.409 be indicted in the case that the police actually find out what happened. 00:08:41.409 --> 00:08:43.996 That is what is happening there, so 00:08:43.996 --> 00:08:46.610 There still are lots of people being threatened. 00:08:46.610 --> 00:08:51.353 Things are better in some areas. But there still are too many issues 00:08:51.353 --> 00:08:56.140 I think that while we activists should highlight this even more 00:08:56.140 --> 00:09:02.100 José Cláudio was just one of many and a journalist decided 00:09:02.100 --> 00:09:07.788 to bring him to TEDx and show his face and due to this 00:09:07.788 --> 00:09:12.785 It was possible for us to call people's attention to his case 00:09:12.785 --> 00:09:15.227 and at least to arrest the murderers. 00:09:15.227 --> 00:09:18.493 If it was not like that he would have been just one more statistic, 00:09:18.493 --> 00:09:23.202 So, I believe that 'evidence' brings to light hat is happening and is essential. 00:09:23.202 --> 00:09:31.257 And, you know how It is like in loco, right? 00:09:31.257 --> 00:09:36.670 How do you think local people deal this Amazon issue, 00:09:36.670 --> 00:09:39.393 that involves politics, deforestation... 00:09:39.393 --> 00:09:45.361 Those people understand what they are doing pretty well, 00:09:45.361 --> 00:09:51.754 They know they are protecting social and human rights. 00:09:51.754 --> 00:09:54.324 and also the environment. 00:09:54.324 --> 00:10:00.138 For the most part they understand the connection between the environment and the people. 00:10:00.138 --> 00:10:02.916 There is not such thing as a rupture between these two things 00:10:02.916 --> 00:10:05.674 like some farmers think that there is, and 00:10:05.674 --> 00:10:07.721 face the forest as a trammers for them, 00:10:07.721 --> 00:10:12.425 For them, in order to develop It is necessery to take this trammer off. 00:10:12.425 --> 00:10:16.541 Another thing is that most people are aware 00:10:16.541 --> 00:10:20.748 They are under danger, but they insist ion staying there 00:10:20.748 --> 00:10:23.323 to keep protecting their area. 00:10:23.323 --> 00:10:28.783 This is a problem: not everyone agrees in protect themselves, you know? 00:10:28.783 --> 00:10:31.635 We keep in touch with lots of people from 00:10:31.635 --> 00:10:34.100 international organizations, people worried in promoting human rights 00:10:36.638 --> 00:10:39.278 They deal with new technologies and are having, 00:10:39.278 --> 00:10:42.915 through this video, the opportunity to 00:10:42.915 --> 00:10:45.724 learn about what is happening 00:10:45.724 --> 00:10:48.842 How could these international organizations help to transform 00:10:48.842 --> 00:10:51.754 this reality that is so clear for those who work in there, 00:10:51.754 --> 00:10:54.777 and make political action more effective, defending people from the violence and 00:10:54.777 --> 00:10:59.556 the deforestation of the Amazon? 00:10:59.556 --> 00:11:02.841 I think that they can help local organizations 00:11:02.841 --> 00:11:05.404 that are already there and are working in order to reduce the violence. 00:11:05.404 --> 00:11:09.341 They could amplify their voices, 00:11:09.341 --> 00:11:14.720 help people hear and pay attention to what is happening there. 00:11:14.720 --> 00:11:17.967 There are several local organizations, 00:11:17.967 --> 00:11:22.640 The 'Comissão Pastoral da Terra' (Pastoral Land Commission) is one of them 00:11:22.640 --> 00:11:24.588 and It could be contacted for a list of other local organisations. 00:11:27.587 --> 00:11:32.398 I should say this situation does not happen just in Brazil, It also happens in Peru. 00:11:32.398 --> 00:11:37.423 And for those who are not in Brazil, 00:11:37.423 --> 00:11:43.968 to gather information on internet about what is happening, 00:11:43.968 --> 00:11:47.607 what would be the best first step? 00:11:50.311 --> 00:11:53.782 There are these organisations that have the data, 00:11:53.782 --> 00:12:00.247 their is government data. But, It is hard to gather all the information available. 00:12:00.247 --> 00:12:02.288 Mainly, for those who are abroad, isn't it? 00:12:02.288 --> 00:12:05.690 The Brazilian Public Prosecutor also has 00:12:05.690 --> 00:12:10.178 a list of people who have been threatened in the region. 00:12:10.178 --> 00:12:15.118 The point is that there is not any program, you know 00:12:15.118 --> 00:12:21.392 We have moved in the direction of disclosure of the information. 00:12:21.392 --> 00:12:28.907 organize the information would also be a way of make a difference.