0:00:00.000,0:00:12.902
rc3 preroll music
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Herald: So the next talk is Mike Bonanno[br]of the Yes Men, and I think we'll just
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allow him to get started right away. Mike,[br]please go.
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Mike Bonanno: Thank you so much and hello[br]everybody. It's so good to be here
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participating in the chaos. I can say that[br]I've intended to for years, but finally,
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maybe due to the pandemic, I'm finally[br]here. So and it's great to to be here
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after observing from afar for about twenty[br]five years. Anyway, I was told that the
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other day that I'm getting kind of old.[br]The Yes Men are elderly now. And so a lot
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of people wouldn't, you know, know very[br]much about the types of things or what we
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had been doing. And I'll admit I've[br]forgotten most of it myself. So I look
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through it, I looked through the archives,[br]just something that would introduce what
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we do a little bit. And I found this[br]picture that you see here where I'm
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holding up an ExxonMobil card, business[br]card. And then Andy, who's the guy that I
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work with at the Yes Men, the co-founder[br]of the group is there holding a National
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Petroleum Council card. And this is from[br]an event that we were at and I think
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2009 or so where we went to a[br]conference in Calgary, Alberta,
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representing these two companies. We've[br]been weaseling, weaseling our way into
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events, conferences and sometimes online[br]types of venues for over two decades now
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and representing people in power. And we[br]do one of two things. Either we do
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something satirical and funny in front of[br]an audience that usually thinks we are the
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most powerful people in the room, or we do[br]something that is more utopian where we
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announce the reality that we might like to[br]see, like in our wildest dreams, what we
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might think ExxonMobil might say if they[br]suddenly turned around and stopped being
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some of the world's largest climate[br]criminals and had a kind of reckoning and
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woke up and decided to fight climate[br]change. So anyway, there's been a lot of
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things that have happened over the last[br]two decades in terms of the media
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landscape and the sort of flexibility of[br]reality that have made our tactics more or
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less useful. Also, like who's in power[br]politically makes a difference, because
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this, the types of things that we do, this[br]kind of mischief we find works pretty well
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when there's people who are movable, who's[br]in office. Whereas if you have a total
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despotic tyrant, then you have to go to[br]more tactical methods instead of the types
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of things that we do that are all about,[br]you know, pushing political leaders to
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change or about sort of bolstering a[br]movement like creating some exciting, fun,
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entertaining media that shows us all that[br]the people that we're fighting are
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actually really fallible and no different[br]than you and I, despite the kind of power
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that they hold. So I'm going to go ahead[br]and play a little video clip here.
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Hopefully it works. This is a video clip[br]from our second, third Yes Men film.
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Narrator within video: We don't usually[br]get arrested, but ever since the 1990's,
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Mike and I have been dressing up[br]in secondhand suits and impersonating big
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and powerful people.[br]Actor: Hello, this is Reggie Lambrick
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calling. I'm from the "Yes Bush Can"[br]campaign
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A: Hi, this is Kinnithrung Sprat [br]from the WTO.
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A: My name is Francesco Guerrero[br]A: My name is Brad, I'm Halliburton's
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N: We weasel our way onto center stage, at[br]least for a little while.
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Rr: Mr. Oswin, you're not even on the[br]directory. You're not even listed. You
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don't even have a phone number.[br]A: It's come to that.
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Rr: The hoax was an elaborate one.[br]A: For the first time, Dow is accepting
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full responsibility for the Bhopal[br]catastrophe.
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R: So the prank, which briefly knocked[br]three percent of Dow shares.
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N: When the jig is up, it makes the news.[br]R: It's a group of pranksters who call
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themselves The Yes Men.[br]R: An activist group called Yes Men…
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N: It's not the way most people protest,
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but it's our way to say [br]no to corporate greed.
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pop[br]Oooh!
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M: Oops! OK laughing. So, I just want to
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give a little bit of backstory: I've made[br]three films, three feature docs in the
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last 15 years. We released one, it seems,[br]every five years. That's kind of a
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compilation of a bunch of the antics that[br]weave the exploits, whatever we want to
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call them. But a lot of people ask, well,[br]how do you start doing this? With what
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initiative? Why, how? And it all kind of[br]happened by accident. I just wanted to
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start out by showing you the World Trade[br]Organization headquarters in Geneva. This
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is obviously a pretty large building in[br]one of the most expensive real estate
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markets in the world. And how did we get[br]our first major kind of exploit like this
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was when we when we actually impersonated[br]the WTO. And so this is their
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headquarters. This at the time was our[br]headquarters. You can see this little plot
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here is where we lived. This is a meeting[br]of the OMC, the WTO. And of course, this
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is the kind of meeting that we used to[br]have. And so people would say, well, how
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did you end up representing the WTO on[br]television? You know, on stage? At
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business meetings? Here we are standing[br]with several dignitaries in Australia
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after a trade conference there. And the[br]answer was, is actually way simpler
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than it needs to be. Like a lot of things[br]with social engineering, it's actually a
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lot dumber and less technical than people[br]imagine. This is Andy at a computer. At
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that thing down there. And that's called[br]that's called the computer. There's a
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television in the background, a CRT. We[br]had put up a website called gwbush.com
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that was meant to be a satirical website[br]for George Bush, who at the time was
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running for president. He wasn't president[br]yet, but you can see that his banner for
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his website said valuable, said[br]"education, values, responsibility". It's
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the banner on the bottom. And then our[br]banner at the top said, "valuable,
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educated, prosperous". These are subtle[br]differences, but they're differences that
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make a big difference in English because[br]there and of course, in this one, instead
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of sitting with his wife smiling in front[br]of the Texas state capitol, he's pointing
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his finger at black people. So it was[br]meant to be satirical, but it turned out a
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lot of people took it seriously anyway.[br]And it got a lot of press coverage. This
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is some old, an old Netscape window,[br]browser window here. And then, sorry, it
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got a lot of press coverage and then[br]actually, George Bush denounced it at
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several press conferences and he made it[br]famous, quote, at the time, although he
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made tons of famous gaffes and at this[br]press conference he said about us, there
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ought to be limits to freedom. That was[br]what he was suggesting when they asked
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what they should do about us for making[br]this website that look like he hasn't made
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fun of them. We put up a website at[br]gatt.org, which a lot of people associated
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with the World Trade Organization, because[br]GATT, the Global Agreement on Tariffs and
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Trade, was the predecessor organization to[br]the WTO and the predecessor, the
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previously existing agreement. So we had[br]that website. This is actually Bretton
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Woods where they first set up the GATT, I[br]believe, in 1946. And then of course the
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WTO building that you've already seen on[br]the shores of Geneva. Now in the early
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1990s, the mid late 1990s, there was a big[br]global movement against neoliberalization
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and neoliberal policies. And the WTO was a[br]big focus of that. And Andy and I were
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participating. This is one of the marches[br]that you see of people mostly in the
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global south who are rebelling against the[br]free market ideologies that were really
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hurting the poorest of people in many of[br]those countries. And of course, there are
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protests like the famous Battle of[br]Seattle, which was famous because it shut
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down the city of Seattle during a OMC[br]meeting. And this is a great picture of
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what it's like to be to be there at that[br]event. It was. But unfortunately, we
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couldn't be there. I mean, Andy couldn't[br]be there to experience this wonderful
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feeling of tear gas. And so, feeling left[br]out, we put up a fake website for the WTO.
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And again, it's a satirical website, [br]but it's at gatt.org.
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And unlike the WTO's web sites that…
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The WTO website was very hard to [br]find out how to talk to anybody there.
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Although they emphasized their[br]transparency as an organization, they were
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very hard to actually speak to. And since[br]their web page had literally thousands of
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pages of documents, legal documents that[br]you needed to be a lawyer to understand.
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Ultimately, it wasn't very transparent.[br]And so our web site, on the other hand,
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gatt.org, was very easy to hit the contact[br]button and get in touch with what a lot of
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people turned out to think was the, were[br]the WTO. Now, that became news and the WTO
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issued a press release saying: warning,[br]fake WTO website. And so since they had
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actually then sent this press release to[br]their entire mailing list, the Google
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algorithm, which was fairly new at the[br]time, ranked our web site very high in the
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rankings just below theirs actually.[br]Without any warnings about it being fake.
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So many people would go to their real WTO[br]website, would fail to be able to get in
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touch with them, and then instead would[br]actually come to our website and on our
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website, we posted these alerts like fake[br]WTO website, misleading the public just to
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make sure that people knew that we that we[br]existed. We wanted to help them help the
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WTO do this work of warning people about[br]the fakes, this sort of hall of mirrors.
0:13:09.589,0:13:16.600
So once again, the word deplorable gets[br]used in reference to us. This here is the
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then director general of the WTO whose[br]name happened to be Mike Moore, and he was
0:13:24.339,0:13:28.061
from New Zealand, very different. He's a[br]former prime minister of New Zealand, very
0:13:28.061,0:13:33.474
different prime minister than they have[br]now, really. But he held a press
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conference where he announced that he[br]deplored the fake website and said that
0:13:38.880,0:13:45.379
they undermine the transparency. And so,[br]of course, we published this on our fake
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website as well. And then immediately it[br]gets picked up and widely, widely picked
0:13:53.510,0:14:01.019
up by the press. So without actually going[br]to Seattle, we managed to actually engage
0:14:01.019,0:14:07.199
the WTO and to get them to talk to us, to[br]address us, and then to get several rounds
0:14:07.199,0:14:14.030
of media attention that we used to try to[br]redirect traffic to what was happening in
0:14:14.030,0:14:20.630
Seattle, to what was happening on the[br]ground with the movement. And actually,
0:14:20.630,0:14:24.829
this for us, we've been doing things like[br]this before, but for us this was like a
0:14:24.829,0:14:29.510
really big win because we realized, wow,[br]this took very little work. It was a lot of
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fun and with absolutely no power - you[br]remember what our office looked like
0:14:35.550,0:14:47.000
compared to the WTO - we were able to sort[br]of do these moves that would throw a much
0:14:47.000,0:14:57.380
heavier opponent like judo moves. And so,[br]anyway, we got into it. So many people
0:14:57.380,0:15:03.160
then were mistaking our website for[br]theirs, thanks to the sort of internet
0:15:03.160,0:15:08.709
being so new and the you know, I mean, the[br]web, the world wide web and the way search
0:15:08.709,0:15:14.699
engines worked, that we got a lot of email[br]from people, questions like: "Could you
0:15:14.699,0:15:21.259
advise me of the relationship of Gibraltar[br]to the WTO?" And this is the Treasury
0:15:21.259,0:15:27.870
Department of the Isle of Man asking us[br]this question. So, you know, it's fun,
0:15:27.870,0:15:34.579
it's entertaining. Another question might[br]be: "I would like to interview a WTO
0:15:34.579,0:15:40.611
spokesperson on South America's new[br]technology sector." By the way, on the
0:15:40.611,0:15:46.041
relationship of Gibraltar to the WTO, we[br]explained in detail how Gibraltar was a
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rock south of Spain, a really big rock laughs in[br]the, basically, in between the
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Mediterranean and the Atlantic Ocean and[br]the WTO is this human construction,
0:16:00.360,0:16:07.139
imagination organization, very different[br]thing. So we we became experts basically
0:16:07.139,0:16:15.680
very quickly overnight. It was a lot of[br]fun. And then finally, we were so good at
0:16:15.680,0:16:20.990
it, so good at being the WTO that we[br]started to get invitations. "Can the director
0:16:20.990,0:16:26.089
general, Mike Moore, address our[br]conference in Salzburg?" was a question we
0:16:26.089,0:16:34.281
got and well, this is Mike Moore. This is[br]what he looks like. And we realize, damn,
0:16:34.281,0:16:40.810
we can't we can't possibly be that guy.[br]This is a problem. We can't send him
0:16:40.810,0:16:45.910
either. So we wrote to them and we said,[br]well, we can't send you Director General
0:16:45.910,0:16:51.191
Mike Moore, but we would very much like to[br]send a substitute. And that's when they
0:16:51.191,0:16:57.029
embraced the idea of Andreas Bicklbauer,[br]Dr. Andreas Bicklbauer, which is a name we
0:16:57.029,0:17:02.980
got out of the Vienna phone book.[br]Actually, a friend of ours, Hans of Uber
0:17:02.980,0:17:09.050
Morgan, had sort of sponsored our trip by[br]leaving some cash on the table of his
0:17:09.050,0:17:15.620
apartment and leaving us the keys. So when[br]we arrived in Vienna with our new
0:17:15.620,0:17:22.150
thrift store suits, we were immediately[br]ready to go to this conference as the
0:17:22.150,0:17:27.010
World Trade Organization. So that's sort[br]of how it happened in the beginning. This
0:17:27.010,0:17:33.870
adventure in mischief, which has now[br]lasted twenty years, doing these things in
0:17:33.870,0:17:41.000
person was something that just almost sort[br]of like occurred spontaneously. But then
0:17:41.000,0:17:47.390
once we were onto that and into that, it[br]became quite an energizing and addictive
0:17:47.390,0:17:55.200
sport thing that we've got a sportcoat[br]that launched us onto the twenty years of
0:17:55.200,0:18:00.180
fun and excitement. And we haven't quite[br]landed yet. But I'm worried about that
0:18:00.180,0:18:07.620
landing because it could could be a rough[br]one. So I want to just frame what we're
0:18:07.620,0:18:15.480
doing a little more. You know, some of you[br]probably recognize this guy. This is Santa
0:18:15.480,0:18:22.370
Claus. This is an actual photograph of[br]Santa Claus emerging from a chimney,
0:18:22.370,0:18:27.900
looking at a photographer who happens to[br]be crouched in this room in somebody's
0:18:27.900,0:18:33.620
house. They both had to break in, in order[br]to do this. And so my point here is that,
0:18:33.620,0:18:38.930
you know, we love mischief, we love[br]mischief, and we actually even love
0:18:38.930,0:18:46.010
trespass. We love breaking in. We love[br]breaking and entering. The stories of
0:18:46.010,0:18:53.160
crossing borders, crossing boundaries,[br]changing shape, putting on disguises, the
0:18:53.160,0:19:01.410
masquerade. These are the stories that[br]really carry us through history. They are
0:19:01.410,0:19:07.450
some of our oldest stories. And this[br]season, with Christmas is no exception.
0:19:07.450,0:19:12.510
Now, the stories have been hijacked and[br]manipulated in a number of ways, just as
0:19:12.510,0:19:19.181
all information and stories are in our[br]culture and Santa Claus is reckless, break
0:19:19.181,0:19:26.621
in in order to leave gifts, have become[br]something hijacked by capitalism, in part
0:19:26.621,0:19:31.840
created by capitalism. But the fact that[br]we want to lean on this idea of him
0:19:31.840,0:19:36.461
trespassing, I think is that's really[br]important. That's a key to something. So
0:19:36.461,0:19:43.720
remember, don't tell anybody, though.[br]Santa Claus will do so. We have this
0:19:43.720,0:19:49.970
history we see it fitting into something[br]that's sort of common to all cultures, and
0:19:49.970,0:19:58.150
this is the idea of the trickster. This is[br]often a deity or sometimes it's actually
0:19:58.150,0:20:04.950
based on a real historical figure that's[br]more recent. But all cultures have these.
0:20:04.950,0:20:09.920
I won't say all, but nearly all cultures[br]have these trickster characters. There's a
0:20:09.920,0:20:18.280
few listed on this sort of cartoon image[br]here, Kokopelli of the Hopi or the Zooni,
0:20:18.280,0:20:24.781
which is, you know, in the United States,[br]in North America, Aboriginal people in
0:20:24.781,0:20:29.160
North America, Anansi, the spider of West[br]Africa, the Raven and the Pacific
0:20:29.160,0:20:36.660
Northwest. It goes on and on because[br]they're everywhere. Everybody has these.
0:20:36.660,0:20:40.810
And it doesn't take too much digging to[br]find out about your own trickster
0:20:40.810,0:20:47.680
character in your culture. And since we're[br]kind of in, I think mostly in Germany
0:20:47.680,0:20:53.150
right now, and actually my mother is[br]Dutch, so I'm going to stick with, I'm
0:20:53.150,0:20:57.770
going to go with Reynard, the Fox or the[br]Fox as a character, as a trickster
0:20:57.770,0:21:02.490
character. And so we're going to look at a[br]little bit more history through the Fox's
0:21:02.490,0:21:08.050
lens to frame the types of things that[br]we're doing through the eyes of the of the
0:21:08.050,0:21:19.570
trickster. Jesus, another trickster. Laughs. And[br]I'm not a big fan, although I am a fan of
0:21:19.570,0:21:24.201
some of his original tactics. You know, he[br]rode in on this donkey and this is an
0:21:24.201,0:21:28.770
actual photograph of him because, you[br]know, somebody had a time machine and went
0:21:28.770,0:21:35.930
back and got this shot of him riding a[br]donkey into Bethlehem. And, you know, this
0:21:35.930,0:21:41.051
is like nobody rides a donkey into[br]Jerusalem. Nobody rides a donkey. It
0:21:41.051,0:21:45.810
didn't make sense. He did it because he[br]knew that people would talk about it. It
0:21:45.810,0:21:54.020
was a symbolic action that was meant to[br]project the kind of humility and make
0:21:54.020,0:21:59.660
people tell stories about what happened.[br]So the idea was to propagate this myth,
0:21:59.660,0:22:07.080
which, of course, works so well that now[br]we have you know, we have Christianity.
0:22:07.080,0:22:14.570
But here's Nasrudin riding a donkey[br]backwards a century later. And again, an
0:22:14.570,0:22:23.390
original photo. This is sort of a wise[br]aged coming from out of Turkey and part of
0:22:23.390,0:22:32.350
Islamic tradition. And again, all these[br]stories, though, are stories of a kind of
0:22:32.350,0:22:37.790
wisdom. And these are sort of the reason I[br]say they're Trickster's is that they were
0:22:37.790,0:22:43.780
fighting larger powers. I mean, Jesus was[br]fighting the Romans. Jesus was leading a
0:22:43.780,0:22:50.930
movement of liberation at the time. It[br]became something entirely different. But
0:22:50.930,0:22:55.820
we see the same thing. This version of the[br]trickster, that's Nasrudin is like a wise
0:22:55.820,0:23:07.160
man is usually about telling a story where[br]through cleverness and sometimes agility,
0:23:07.160,0:23:12.390
a character can outwit others who have[br]more power, who would otherwise exercise
0:23:12.390,0:23:19.270
power over them. I mean, there are good[br]trickster's and bad, but we like to focus
0:23:19.270,0:23:23.930
on the idea of the good trickster, which[br]is those who are fighting power instead of
0:23:23.930,0:23:30.481
those who are serving power. So here's[br]another example, a modest proposal. This
0:23:30.481,0:23:37.950
is a pamphlet published by Jonathan Swift[br]where he suggested that the Irish eat
0:23:37.950,0:23:44.370
their babies in order to solve the hunger[br]problem in Ireland. Because, of course,
0:23:44.370,0:23:51.270
the potato famine was not a famine that[br]was caused by lack of food in that
0:23:51.270,0:23:56.740
country. It was caused by lack of money,[br]as most famines are. The British were
0:23:56.740,0:24:01.750
still shipping grains out of Ireland[br]because they made money when people were
0:24:01.750,0:24:07.110
starving to death because the potato crops[br]had failed. So this is a comment on that.
0:24:07.110,0:24:12.630
Well, why don't the Irish just eat their[br]own babies? And then it was, it's become
0:24:12.630,0:24:19.720
one of the most famous examples of, you[br]know, English satire in history and
0:24:19.720,0:24:24.800
English language that is. This is the[br]seventeen hundreds. So the whole point
0:24:24.800,0:24:29.500
here is that this pamphlet, like a lot of[br]this sort of hacking techniques that we
0:24:29.500,0:24:34.320
end up using now, this pamphlet was like[br]disguising itself as something else when
0:24:34.320,0:24:40.700
it was first published. OK, I'm going to[br]skip ahead. These are a few pictures of
0:24:40.700,0:24:44.890
the women's movement, but I want to get[br]through this stuff quickly. The whole
0:24:44.890,0:24:50.500
purpose here is to show you that, again,[br]this obsession with stories with
0:24:50.500,0:24:57.800
infiltrating with causing trouble, which[br]they did, is something that's constant,
0:24:57.800,0:25:05.830
has continued to happen, to occur. Hang on[br]a second ... he's showing a low power, but
0:25:05.830,0:25:11.530
I'm a power problem. I'm going to have to[br]go and get another power supply because
0:25:11.530,0:25:20.900
this one is not working. But this is a[br]group called Climate Rush that was, that
0:25:20.900,0:25:26.550
was repeating those actions. So I'm going[br]to run off and get another power supply. I
0:25:26.550,0:25:33.630
will be back in just a moment. I'm going[br]to leave you with a picture of a Gandy's
0:25:33.630,0:25:41.350
saltmarsh. Now, just a minute. This is[br]actually Surmont Sumati Naidu, who is
0:25:41.350,0:25:47.270
leading one of the salt marches. I'll be[br]right back.
0:25:47.270,0:25:51.450
Herald: I will use this interruption to[br]remind you that you can ask questions at
0:25:51.450,0:26:00.720
the hashtag "#rc3one", "one" spelled out as[br]a word on Twitter and Mastodon and also on
0:26:00.720,0:26:19.550
the IRC. And now we all sing some songs[br]together and wait.
0:26:19.550,0:26:37.110
Mike: Hey, everybody, sorry. They are good[br]laughs.
0:26:37.110,0:26:39.781
H: Welcome back.[br]M: Thank you. That's not the thing that I
0:26:39.781,0:26:47.240
expected to stop working. Never had a[br]power supply just stop in the middle. OK,
0:26:47.240,0:26:53.170
well, anyway, I was also going to say that[br]a lot of the stuff that we get inspiration
0:26:53.170,0:26:59.570
from comes from principles of nonviolence[br]going where you're not supposed to go,
0:26:59.570,0:27:04.350
crossing borders. This is, again,[br]trickster tactics. So the tactics of
0:27:04.350,0:27:10.140
civil disobedience are the same kind of[br]tactics that we use when we infiltrate and
0:27:10.140,0:27:16.650
do something in a business meeting. It's[br]doing something illegal, something that is
0:27:16.650,0:27:23.650
illegal, but might, of course, have just[br]ends in mind or might even be the right
0:27:23.650,0:27:30.500
thing to do. So the salt march in India[br]during the Indian independence movement
0:27:30.500,0:27:38.500
was where people marched to the sea and[br]made salt, which was illegal because it
0:27:38.500,0:27:44.730
was being taxed by the British. And it's[br]one of the ways that the British crown was
0:27:44.730,0:27:53.880
suppressing the local populations and[br]preventing India from having autonomy and
0:27:53.880,0:28:01.380
from being able to break the yoke of[br]colonialism. So, again, the idea was to
0:28:01.380,0:28:10.360
try to cross those boundaries and to do it[br]in a way that was visible to the world.
0:28:10.360,0:28:15.910
Another example is the bus protests in the[br]United States during the civil rights
0:28:15.910,0:28:24.410
movement. This is a woman actually well[br]before Rosa Parks who this photo here is
0:28:24.410,0:28:30.880
of, there was this woman whose last name[br]is Morgan, who - this is over a decade
0:28:30.880,0:28:37.010
earlier -, who was riding on the bus and[br]refused to give up her seat. And so there
0:28:37.010,0:28:42.150
are many, many people doing these sorts of[br]tactics which were really about crossing
0:28:42.150,0:28:47.280
these borders, crossing these boundaries.[br]All right. I'm going to move ahead here
0:28:47.280,0:28:56.990
through a few more slides of occupations,[br]things like the American Indian movement
0:28:56.990,0:29:03.100
that was, sorry, this is Indians of all[br]tribes occupying Alcatraz saying this is,
0:29:03.100,0:29:08.730
this space is ours. This is after the[br]prison had left the island. This is just
0:29:08.730,0:29:14.600
off the coast of San Francisco in 1971[br]and again at Standing Rock,
0:29:14.600,0:29:20.890
same kinds of tactics, occupation,[br]refusing to move and getting moved by the
0:29:20.890,0:29:28.320
authorities and a display of violence that[br]shows really that should in theory at
0:29:28.320,0:29:33.540
least be embarrassing for those wielding[br]power when they claim to be benevolent.
0:29:33.540,0:29:39.510
Billboard alteration, another simple[br]transgression. It's just like going up
0:29:39.510,0:29:45.440
there and changing a billboard. Street[br]signs, you can change the street signs in
0:29:45.440,0:29:52.080
Malcolm X Street, which is something that[br]in the early 90's I was doing in Portland,
0:29:52.080,0:29:57.940
Oregon, and this was in protest of them[br]not naming a street for Martin Luther
0:29:57.940,0:30:03.190
King. Sometimes it is as simple as[br]changing an existing sign. Like Hollyweed.
0:30:03.190,0:30:08.080
I show this because it's a successful[br]campaign. You know, weed is now pretty
0:30:08.080,0:30:14.080
much legal. Well, it's legal in California[br]and in it will be soon, probably in most
0:30:14.080,0:30:19.790
of the United States, if not all. And[br]things like banner hangs, again, going
0:30:19.790,0:30:26.090
where you're not supposed to. Getting your[br]message there. If you don't have the money
0:30:26.090,0:30:32.370
for a banner, you can draw it on a beach.[br]You can put on a costume like Superbarrio
0:30:32.370,0:30:40.580
in Mexico City. This is after the[br]earthquake in 1987. This guy showed up
0:30:40.580,0:30:48.830
wearing a wrestling outfit and demanded[br]rights for the poor people in Mexico. And
0:30:48.830,0:30:55.400
the neighborhoods that weren't being[br]repaired by the government. And people
0:30:55.400,0:31:01.080
loved him so much and the media loved him[br]so much. That when he started to challenge
0:31:01.080,0:31:06.890
political leaders to wrestling matches,[br]they kind of had to show up and talk to
0:31:06.890,0:31:13.070
him. Otherwise, it would be very[br]embarrassing. So this is an example of
0:31:13.070,0:31:19.390
using some kind of flamboyant tactic in[br]plain sight to go places you're not
0:31:19.390,0:31:26.420
allowed to go. And then again, the masked[br]man, the identity here for the Zapatistas
0:31:26.420,0:31:32.840
as a sort of the flip side of that is the[br]obscured identity, you know. Wearing a
0:31:32.840,0:31:37.010
mask because you have to. Because you're[br]actually participating in an armed
0:31:37.010,0:31:44.940
rebellion. But also this movement of the[br]Zapatistas was really thinking very much
0:31:44.940,0:31:50.310
about their media image and about[br]presenting their revolution to the world.
0:31:50.310,0:31:58.200
And having it exists on a global stage.[br]Oh, and here is Comandante Ramona, who's
0:31:58.200,0:32:04.590
the leader of the Zapatistas with[br]Subcomandante Marcos. And again, thinking
0:32:04.590,0:32:14.340
about who is in charge here. And it's this[br]under five foot tall indigenous elder who
0:32:14.340,0:32:22.920
is running the Zapatista revolution at the[br]time in 1994. Just one or two more slides
0:32:22.920,0:32:28.010
here of other things. To put it all in[br]context, here's a group called the Space
0:32:28.010,0:32:34.461
Hijackers with one of their tanks. They[br]had a few they bought a few tanks. It
0:32:34.461,0:32:40.440
turns out that in the UK it's not that[br]hard to buy them. And they dressed as
0:32:40.440,0:32:46.070
these sort of comic riot police. And this[br]was sort of the clown car that distracted
0:32:46.070,0:32:53.180
the real riot police who followed them.[br]And then let their other tank roll right
0:32:53.180,0:33:01.200
into the largest arms show in the world in[br]London. So sometimes these plots involve
0:33:01.200,0:33:08.610
decoys, involved many layers in order to[br]access these venues. But this is a picture
0:33:08.610,0:33:15.020
of a teddy bear catapult. The fun thing[br]about this, this is that the FTAA, a
0:33:15.020,0:33:23.950
protest in in Quebec City, in Canada. And[br]the fun thing about this is that it
0:33:23.950,0:33:29.570
created a dilemma for the police. Because[br]the world leaders are meeting inside the
0:33:29.570,0:33:35.110
fortress city. Literally, it's the only[br]fortress city in North America. Europe has
0:33:35.110,0:33:40.600
a lot of them. But this is at the top of[br]the hill. There's a fort in Quebec and
0:33:40.600,0:33:44.920
that's where they were meeting. And, of[br]course, the antiglobalization activists
0:33:44.920,0:33:51.560
surrounded it and laid siege to it. And[br]one group built this hilarious catapult
0:33:51.560,0:33:56.200
and were flinging teddy bears in. And the[br]police were faced with the decision. Do we
0:33:56.200,0:34:01.140
arrest? Do we stop the teddy bears from[br]being flung in? And do we arrest the
0:34:01.140,0:34:06.110
catapult and then look ridiculous walking[br]away with it? Or do we let them keep
0:34:06.110,0:34:11.710
flinging? Neither option was a good one.[br]They arrested the activists. And
0:34:11.710,0:34:18.110
they then there's this hilarious picture[br]of them hauling around their catapult
0:34:18.110,0:34:24.470
teddy bears. If you can't make a catapult,[br]you don't have the means, maybe you have
0:34:24.470,0:34:31.730
some bread and you can strap it to your[br]head like in the Egyptian... the recent
0:34:31.730,0:34:37.490
revolution in the Arab Spring. Where[br]people were strapping all kinds of things
0:34:37.490,0:34:42.759
to their heads to make a statement about[br]the violence that was being perpetrated
0:34:42.759,0:34:47.960
against them. Because, of course, the[br]state is saying that they were creating
0:34:47.960,0:34:53.379
the violence and the activists were[br]saying, no, we don't even have helmets.
0:34:53.379,0:34:58.470
We're going to just strap whatever we have[br]to our head. And it became a hilarious
0:34:58.470,0:35:03.980
living meme. Where people are walking[br]around with all kinds of crazy makeshift
0:35:03.980,0:35:12.579
helmets. One more image, the flying penis[br]that attacked Garry Kasparov in, I think
0:35:12.579,0:35:19.180
what became a very popular viral video for[br]its moment. And you can look this up, but
0:35:19.180,0:35:25.300
this is also a warning. Because this[br]phallus, which is flying, it's like an RC
0:35:25.300,0:35:31.230
helicopter with a dildo attached to it.[br]And this thing, which was flown against
0:35:31.230,0:35:36.730
Kasparov, who was at the time the[br]strongest opposition candidate to Putin,
0:35:36.730,0:35:42.410
could very well be the KGB's flying[br]phallus. So everybody uses these tactics.
0:35:42.410,0:35:46.289
And I say that because, you know, it was,[br]it became a really popular and
0:35:46.289,0:35:54.880
embarrassing video that was against[br]Kasparov. And so who knows who was behind
0:35:54.880,0:36:03.609
it. Who was at the controls? So to go back[br]to what we do with the Yes Men. We are not
0:36:03.609,0:36:08.369
beneath a few phallic metaphors ourselves[br]because it works really well When you're
0:36:08.369,0:36:17.269
trying to impersonate people in power.[br]This is an example of one time when we
0:36:17.269,0:36:23.539
went to a conference in Finland[br]representing the WTO and announced that
0:36:23.539,0:36:31.339
the WTO's solution to the problem of[br]sweatshops was this thing called the
0:36:31.339,0:36:38.380
"Employee Visualization Appendage". Which[br]was a three foot long phallus that had a
0:36:38.380,0:36:45.730
kind of heads up display on it, that[br]allowed you to see your remote workers
0:36:45.730,0:36:50.470
anywhere in the world. And give them[br]electric shocks. And of course, the
0:36:50.470,0:36:56.539
audience loved it because because they[br]thought we were the most powerful people
0:36:56.539,0:37:01.490
in the room. At the beginning of the talk,[br]we were wearing business suits and we made
0:37:01.490,0:37:06.650
a breakaway business suit that I could tear[br]off of Andy, in one quick movement. And
0:37:06.650,0:37:17.630
then this three foot long inflatable[br]phallus was instantly deployed with a CO₂
0:37:17.630,0:37:25.510
cartridge. Inflated in a matter of maybe a[br]second and a half. And this is a story
0:37:25.510,0:37:31.500
from the newspaper, the second[br]largest daily in Finland, that sort of
0:37:31.500,0:37:44.230
explains a little bit about the WTO[br]plans. So I don't know, how well you could
0:37:44.230,0:37:53.109
see those videos.Can I get a little[br]feedback on that? Can anybody tell me how
0:37:53.109,0:37:58.849
easy it was to see some of the video?[br]H: It looked OK. The sound was great and
0:37:58.849,0:38:01.750
the video was very stuttery. But you[br]could do it.
0:38:01.750,0:38:06.710
M: OK, so I'll show a little bit more[br]video. I'm going to actually show... I'm
0:38:06.710,0:38:12.440
going to skip this one. This is probably[br]the most famous of the things that we've
0:38:12.440,0:38:20.020
done. It's in our second film, which is[br]called "The Yes Men fix the World". And
0:38:20.020,0:38:29.009
you can find that, it's on You Tube,[br]other places, file sharing. And this is
0:38:29.009,0:38:38.559
where Andy was representing Dow Chemical[br]on a live television broadcast on the 20th
0:38:38.559,0:38:45.430
anniversary of the Bhopal catastrophe. And[br]as Dow Chemical, he took responsibility
0:38:45.430,0:38:51.411
for the disaster and offered to pay back[br]the victims and meet their demands. And
0:38:51.411,0:38:57.559
clean up the plant site. So sometimes you[br]use that tactic where we, if we're given
0:38:57.559,0:39:05.339
enough power and we have the right[br]platform, it's incredibly useful to
0:39:05.339,0:39:10.440
announce that sort of utopian solution. Or[br]to announce that the company that you're
0:39:10.440,0:39:13.940
targeting is meeting the demands that[br]activists have been asking for
0:39:13.940,0:39:20.950
years. Because then it puts the company in[br]a real dilemma.They have no good
0:39:20.950,0:39:26.140
choice. They either have to say "That wasn't[br]us and we are not fixing the problem that
0:39:26.140,0:39:32.470
we created." Or if they ignore it, then they[br]have this disinformation out there in the
0:39:32.470,0:39:40.280
universe. That means they have to act. So[br]I'm going to skip that and I'm going to go
0:39:40.280,0:39:45.589
to this, which is a more slightly more[br]recent thing. This is also pretty old,
0:39:45.589,0:39:50.990
though. This is, I think in our last Yes[br]Men movie called 'The Yes Men Are
0:39:50.990,0:40:03.220
Revolting'. And what we're doing here is[br]creating a replica of the stage at the
0:40:03.220,0:40:09.519
Copenhagen climate conference. So this is[br]2009, the COP15. And the reason, we just
0:40:09.519,0:40:14.260
wanted to create something that looked[br]enough like it so that we can make
0:40:14.260,0:40:20.170
Internet videos to embed in our fake[br]website that would allow us to make
0:40:20.170,0:40:26.420
announcements as the COP15 that would, I[br]mean as the official climate conference on
0:40:26.420,0:40:32.859
behalf of Canada and Uganda. And I'm going[br]to play a little video here.
0:40:32.859,0:40:40.990
Newsreader: Well, while Terry was looking[br]through those documents, the world was
0:40:40.990,0:40:46.090
laughing at Canada because of another one.[br]It surfaced as a press release or so
0:40:46.090,0:40:52.759
everyone believed. But soon it was clear[br]Canada had been punked. Leslie McKinnon
0:40:52.759,0:40:56.589
reports.[br]McKinnon: First, there was this demo
0:40:56.589,0:41:03.190
inside parliament. 20 or so protesters who[br]caused a minor stir. Then this Greenpeace
0:41:03.190,0:41:09.579
paper, but that got mostly reported as a[br]breach of security story. Neither managed
0:41:09.579,0:41:14.549
to get Canada's climate policy as much[br]attention in Copenhagen as today's
0:41:14.549,0:41:20.849
multilayered hoax. The day began with this[br]press release announcing the astonishing
0:41:20.849,0:41:27.849
news that Canada was suddenly doubling its[br]emission cuts to 40 percent below 1990
0:41:27.849,0:41:35.190
levels by 2020 and that it would[br]generously pony up 13 billion dollars to
0:41:35.190,0:41:39.999
be allocated to the African countries for[br]emissions reduction. Then there was this
0:41:39.999,0:41:45.480
article about it on what looked like the[br]Wall Street Journal's website. See then
0:41:45.480,0:41:51.220
this, a news conference purportedly by the[br]Ugandan delegate, posted on what looked
0:41:51.220,0:41:54.960
like the Copenhagen conference website.[br]Delegate: Dearest Delegates.
0:41:54.960,0:42:00.339
McKinnon: It looked amazingly real until[br]the speaker compared Canada's oil reserves
0:42:00.339,0:42:03.249
to a loaded gun.[br]Delegate: ... and seemed ready to pull the
0:42:03.249,0:42:08.920
trigger on millions of us around the[br]globe. You left us no choice but to deal
0:42:08.920,0:42:10.980
as criminal.[br]McKinnon: But a press release from
0:42:10.980,0:42:15.569
Environment Canada followed, that[br]seemingly deplored the spoof releases and
0:42:15.569,0:42:22.030
false hopes. This turned out to be a hoax.[br]In fact, it was all a hoax.
0:42:22.030,0:42:24.200
Person 1 in video: I mean, you think it's[br]a game, but it's not a game. It's a
0:42:24.200,0:42:26.190
serious situation.[br]Person 2: You're playing games. I'm not
0:42:26.190,0:42:28.160
playing games.[br]McKinnon: Truth can be stranger than
0:42:28.160,0:42:32.390
fiction. This is the prime minister's[br]spokesman blaiming the stunt on Stephen
0:42:32.390,0:42:34.130
Elbo (?) of the environmental group[br][inaudible].
0:42:34.130,0:42:38.210
Person 2: And I want an apology.[br]McKinnon: And this is also the real thing.
0:42:38.210,0:42:41.430
Jim Prentice: I was in the plenary session[br]at the time that this happened, and I
0:42:41.430,0:42:43.960
really can't comment any further.[br]Interviewee: Why is it a hoax that Canada
0:42:43.960,0:42:46.609
is going to do the right thing?[br]McKinnon: This environmentalist thinks the
0:42:46.609,0:42:50.560
whole elaborate joke worth.[br]Interviewee: I had nothing to do with this
0:42:50.560,0:42:52.299
one, but I'm really happy that they did[br]it.
0:42:52.299,0:42:55.749
McKinnon: As to who pulled this off. There[br]are reports tonight it's a group of
0:42:55.749,0:43:00.019
pranksters who call themselves the Yes[br]Men. They say they'll have a press
0:43:00.019,0:43:05.470
conference tomorrow, if you can believe[br]that. Leslie McKinnon, CBC News, Ottawa.
0:43:05.470,0:43:09.859
Newsreader: Well that climate related[br]stunt is one of many that have happened
0:43:09.859,0:43:13.369
lately.[br]Bonanno: OK, so just to wrap that little
0:43:13.369,0:43:18.910
thing up. You can see here that we're just[br]in a basement. Basically, these
0:43:18.910,0:43:23.700
microphones are just made out of pipe[br]cleaners and electrical tape. We printed
0:43:23.700,0:43:29.460
out a bunch of you know, we had to make[br]our own teleprompter, print out a bunch of
0:43:29.460,0:43:36.670
the logos and paste them up on the wall.[br]We use the reverse shots of the audience
0:43:36.670,0:43:42.730
for the videos from other videos that we[br]found already on their website, and it
0:43:42.730,0:43:47.750
created this kind of illusion where we[br]could do both the big conference room and
0:43:47.750,0:43:55.039
the press briefing room fairly easily. So[br]we made several videos and then eventually
0:43:55.039,0:44:00.960
we had the press conference the next day,[br]which highlighted mostly the position of
0:44:00.960,0:44:07.859
the Ugandan participants in this project,[br]particularly Kodili Chandia, who's there
0:44:07.859,0:44:17.260
sitting in the middle in that red suit. So[br]I just wanted to show that, because it's
0:44:17.260,0:44:21.630
really interesting. And that's, again,[br]it's 10 years old and it was effective at
0:44:21.630,0:44:26.890
the... at that moment. And there weren't a[br]lot of people talking about fake news at
0:44:26.890,0:44:34.030
that time. But something that people are[br]really concerned about now is whether
0:44:34.030,0:44:39.000
these tactics work anymore. And I think it[br]just depends on the context. We found that
0:44:39.000,0:44:44.319
sometimes they work really well. In fact,[br]we had a successful action a few weeks ago
0:44:44.319,0:44:50.349
that got a lot of attention for the Bank[br]of England's fiscal policy. But they don't
0:44:50.349,0:44:55.890
really work very well against a rogue head[br]of state like Donald Trump or something.
0:44:55.890,0:45:04.390
There's no amount of satire or kind of[br]like utopian thinking that can work on
0:45:04.390,0:45:12.940
that... on that kind of wildcard. So just[br]to end the talking part or the ranting
0:45:12.940,0:45:20.680
part, this here we have an image of Renard[br]the fox, which is, of course, something
0:45:20.680,0:45:25.109
I'd like to leave you with. And I think[br]getting in touch with all of our trickster
0:45:25.109,0:45:29.640
roots is a good thing to do, because when[br]we find the roots, we also find that we
0:45:29.640,0:45:34.769
have common ground with everybody else who[br]has trickster characters in their cultural
0:45:34.769,0:45:42.559
histories. And this is forever confused,[br]only confuse from below. This is one of
0:45:42.559,0:45:49.359
our primary tenets of Confuse-ianism. And[br]we've started a school called the
0:45:49.359,0:45:55.809
Trickster Academy. We can talk about that[br]later. OK, I'm going to stop sharing and
0:45:55.809,0:46:00.420
talk to you in person.[br]Herald: I think I'm back.
0:46:00.420,0:46:03.710
B: Great. Sorry, that talk took so long. [br]I just…
0:46:03.710,0:46:05.819
H: That's OK. [br]You had a lot of interesting stuff to say.
0:46:05.819,0:46:09.000
B: I got ambitious with saying things.
0:46:09.000,0:46:14.162
H: And I think the phrase "the KGB's [br]flying phallus" is one for the ages.
0:46:14.162,0:46:17.339
B: Yeah. Yeah. I mean maybe the phallus
0:46:17.339,0:46:21.880
people are listen are here now and can[br]come forward and ask a question or tell us
0:46:21.880,0:46:29.040
who they are. But as far as I know, nobody[br]knows. Could still be the KGB.
0:46:29.040,0:46:33.040
H: All right. We have the first questions.[br]Questions.
0:46:33.040,0:46:36.166
Why are you guys always such assholes?
0:46:36.166,0:46:39.001
B: Yeah, that's a really good question.
0:46:39.001,0:46:43.012
We are always such assholes because
0:46:43.012,0:46:47.650
we don't care about [br]what people think about us.
0:46:47.650,0:46:52.710
I was once at a party where me and my[br]brother had built this giant tower of
0:46:52.710,0:46:57.381
chairs in in the swimming pool. Because it[br]was like this fancy place. We didn't get
0:46:57.381,0:47:02.849
to go to fancy places like that, and we[br]dive off the giant tower of chairs. It was
0:47:02.849,0:47:06.200
great fun and we thought we knew how to[br]have a party, but apparently people were
0:47:06.200,0:47:12.420
really offended and then somebody lost[br]their golden necklace in the pool. And so
0:47:12.420,0:47:17.630
we, of course, were swimming and we went[br]and found it for the guy. And he was so
0:47:17.630,0:47:23.559
excited and so overjoyed. He said, I don't[br]care what everybody else thinks. You guys
0:47:23.559,0:47:28.980
are OK. So I've always remembered that[br]word of wisdom. And I thought, OK, our
0:47:28.980,0:47:34.599
goal is not to make friends with people.[br]Our goal is to get to that place. In fact,
0:47:34.599,0:47:38.660
we can be the fall guy for a big[br]organization that's worried about the
0:47:38.660,0:47:44.670
reputation. So like if the Sierra Club,[br]big environmental organization, wants to
0:47:44.670,0:47:49.900
use the kind of tactics that we do, but is[br]worried that their membership will gonna
0:47:49.900,0:47:54.599
be unpleased, then they can get in touch[br]with us and we'll do it for them.
0:47:54.599,0:47:58.999
H: So that's how you finance working on[br]The Yes Men full time?
0:47:58.999,0:48:04.590
B: I actually finance it by working at a[br]university, so I still teach at
0:48:04.590,0:48:10.119
university, but Jacques more than I has[br]financed it through things like that. And,
0:48:10.119,0:48:15.269
and some of the actions–quite a few of[br]the actions–have been financed by, by
0:48:15.269,0:48:19.269
large NGOs like the Greenpeaces of the[br]world.
0:48:19.269,0:48:25.089
H: Nice. So people on the Internet want to[br]know if you've ever had to go to jail for
0:48:25.089,0:48:29.380
your actions.[br]B: I've never had to go to jail for these
0:48:29.380,0:48:35.630
kinds of actions.[br]H: You went to jail for unrelated reasons?
0:48:35.630,0:48:41.360
B: I went I went to jail for ice skating[br]once. Seriously, come on. New York City.
0:48:41.360,0:48:42.920
I just, you know…
0:48:42.920,0:48:48.209
I highly recommend ice skating on[br]Prospect Park Lake.
0:48:48.209,0:48:50.320
It was originally built for ice skating.
0:48:50.320,0:48:53.426
You know there's pictures of hundreds [br]of people doing it in the 19th century.
0:48:53.426,0:48:56.119
But if you do it now, you get arrested.
0:48:56.119,0:48:59.071
And they actually take you in overnight.
0:48:59.071,0:49:04.379
So you get to spend a night in jail. [br]Which, by the way,
0:49:04.379,0:49:08.562
is a very... it's not exclusive, [br]but it's expensive.
0:49:08.562,0:49:12.430
It costs the taxpayers $1700 per night.
0:49:12.430,0:49:15.512
H: It's a pretty good hotel for this kind of money.
0:49:15.512,0:49:21.329
B: Yes. Yes. It's like a five star.
0:49:21.329,0:49:26.070
H: So did you read any book [br]about social engineering
0:49:26.070,0:49:29.956
or did you just wing it until [br]you figured out all the tricks?
0:49:29.956,0:49:31.379
B: It was, sort of, yeah.
0:49:31.379,0:49:34.705
It was like reverse engineering the [br]social engineering for us.
0:49:34.705,0:49:39.860
Because it was figuring it out as we went,
0:49:39.860,0:49:45.320
but then starting to discover [br]a world of people doing things
0:49:45.320,0:49:48.181
and yeah reading about it.
0:49:48.181,0:49:52.289
So, and there are so many people [br]doing so many amazing things.
0:49:52.289,0:49:55.369
I mean, I'm loving following [br]some of these people now on
0:49:55.369,0:50:00.180
even Youtubers who do stuff like this.
0:50:00.180,0:50:02.364
So yeah, but there are a few books.
0:50:02.364,0:50:07.165
I'm reading a great book about early [br]con men right now that's really fun.
0:50:07.165,0:50:11.048
It's like… I can't remember the title.[br]I'd have to grab it to read the title.
0:50:11.048,0:50:15.298
but yeah, constantly constant education.
0:50:15.298,0:50:19.927
And also, I think it's necessary also [br]to always have innovation.
0:50:19.927,0:50:26.253
You know, but ultimately, it seems like [br]it does boil down to the one thing
0:50:26.253,0:50:31.848
and that is understanding [br]what somebody wants, right?
0:50:31.848,0:50:34.575
Like if you know who you're talking to,
0:50:34.575,0:50:36.775
and you know what they want,
0:50:36.775,0:50:40.519
then you can build a world[br]that delivers it to them
0:50:40.519,0:50:44.702
and that seems to deliver to them [br]the thing that they desire.
0:50:44.702,0:50:48.045
And that is… [br]That usually works really well.
0:50:48.045,0:50:50.639
You know, it's a…
0:50:50.639,0:50:53.409
even on people who are expecting it.
0:50:53.409,0:50:55.850
laughing
0:50:55.850,0:50:57.890
H: All right, [br]the next one is a trivia question,
0:50:57.890,0:50:59.700
which I really enjoy as a concept.
0:50:59.700,0:51:03.300
What are the top three [br]most impactful events in world history
0:51:03.300,0:51:06.701
that you can summarize [br]in the fewest words possible?
0:51:06.701,0:51:10.178
Sounds like a game show. I like it.
0:51:10.178,0:51:12.398
B: Top three
0:51:12.398,0:51:13.940
H: Fewest words
0:51:13.940,0:51:15.939
B: In human history?
0:51:15.939,0:51:18.989
H: In the world history.[br]B: In world history.
0:51:18.989,0:51:23.619
H: So I guess it can include[br]geological events before humans.
0:51:23.619,0:51:30.188
B: Yeah, I kind of want to say, you know,[br]Big Bang, even though I don't know.
0:51:30.188,0:51:34.437
That's what I've been told, [br]I don't totally really understand it, but…
0:51:34.437,0:51:38.351
Big Bang. How many words am I left?
0:51:38.351,0:51:40.690
H: I think as few as possible.
0:51:40.690,0:51:48.504
B: Big Bang, asteroid, Anthropocene.
0:51:48.504,0:51:53.361
H: Very good. [br]I'm sure you won, whatever the game was.
0:51:53.361,0:51:57.650
B: I feel like I won. [br]I feel great about that answer.
0:51:57.650,0:52:01.110
H: How did you guys [br]come up with the human candle idea?
0:52:01.110,0:52:03.340
And maybe explain the human candle idea.
0:52:03.340,0:52:05.900
B: So the human candle idea was...
0:52:05.900,0:52:09.299
Actually this goes back to the very [br]first slide! Thanks for the call back.
0:52:09.299,0:52:14.640
When I'm holding up the [br]business card that says Exxon.
0:52:14.640,0:52:18.747
We were at a conference [br]representing ExxonMobil
0:52:18.747,0:52:22.224
in Calgary, Alberta, [br]at the stampede grounds
0:52:22.224,0:52:25.976
which is where they have [br]the largest rodeo in the world,
0:52:25.976,0:52:29.480
and they also have Canada's [br]largest oil conference.
0:52:29.480,0:52:34.277
And we had convinced them to host us
0:52:34.277,0:52:40.530
by telling them that Lee Raymond, [br]who is the former CEO of ExxonMobil,
0:52:40.530,0:52:45.350
would go to their conference. [br]So I claim that I was from a PR agency,
0:52:45.350,0:52:49.061
got in touch with the people [br]running the conference.
0:52:49.061,0:52:51.915
I had a domain name that looked like
0:52:51.915,0:52:55.380
Hill+Knowlton or Burson-Marsteller.[br]I can't remember who.
0:52:55.380,0:52:58.180
One of the big PR companies [br]that tends to do this kind of
0:52:58.180,0:53:02.845
high level, you know, bullshitting.
0:53:02.845,0:53:08.670
And so I promised them that[br]Lee Raymond had a very important
0:53:08.670,0:53:12.120
announcement to make that would really[br]put their conference on the map.
0:53:12.120,0:53:15.568
And, of course, they were excited about it.[br]But then…
0:53:15.568,0:53:17.935
This is the tricky part.
0:53:17.935,0:53:20.396
At that point, I had to tell them that,
0:53:20.396,0:53:22.795
you know, they had to keep it secret
0:53:22.795,0:53:26.851
until just before the announcement because
0:53:26.851,0:53:31.561
what he was going to say had[br]such repercussions for the global economy
0:53:31.561,0:53:34.549
that they could very well be breaking
0:53:34.549,0:53:38.461
various kinds of SEC [br](that's like, stock market) laws,
0:53:38.461,0:53:41.329
if they didn't embargo the information.
0:53:41.329,0:53:45.817
So I said, this is important.[br]You're part of a web of, you know,
0:53:45.817,0:53:47.849
You're part of a bubble of secrecy.[br]We have to maintain the secret.
0:53:47.849,0:53:52.919
Because as soon as people know that[br]he's going to make a big announcement,
0:53:52.919,0:53:56.480
they're going to freak out, because [br]he had a new position with the government.
0:53:56.480,0:54:00.009
And so they bought it. [br]And, in fact, this is one of those
0:54:00.009,0:54:05.130
counterintuitive things where you would[br]think that telling them that you have this
0:54:05.130,0:54:09.349
great honeypot for their conference, this[br]guy who other people are going to register
0:54:09.349,0:54:16.950
to see at their conference, you think that[br]that then when you tell them that they
0:54:16.950,0:54:22.539
can't tell anyone that it would be[br]immediately blow you up, but it doesn't
0:54:22.539,0:54:25.757
because they feel like they're on[br]the inside of something big then.
0:54:25.757,0:54:27.952
And so they kept the secret.
0:54:27.952,0:54:31.065
And then what we decided[br]we're going to announce was that
0:54:31.065,0:54:35.981
ExxonMobil had a climate change solution.
0:54:35.981,0:54:42.746
Which was to turn the humans [br]who die as a result of climate change
0:54:42.746,0:54:46.543
into a new biofuel called Vivoleum.
0:54:46.543,0:54:48.880
And so we had an animated thing.
0:54:48.880,0:54:51.439
It's in our second movie, [br]The Yes Men Fix the World.
0:54:51.439,0:54:54.497
But that idea came from us thinking about
0:54:54.497,0:54:59.385
what is the logical extension [br]of ExxonMobil's climate policy?
0:54:59.385,0:55:01.687
Because at the time, [br]it had just been revealed
0:55:01.687,0:55:04.634
that ExxonMobil had done all of this
0:55:04.634,0:55:12.846
very shady suppression of knowledge[br]about the about climate change.
0:55:12.846,0:55:19.309
ExxonMobil had scientists working for them[br]in the 70s that knew that climate change
0:55:19.309,0:55:24.343
was huge problem and they had decided to[br]suppress the information themselves.
0:55:24.343,0:55:28.201
And then they went on a protracted campaign
0:55:28.201,0:55:32.088
of suppressing the information [br]at the federal level in the United States
0:55:32.088,0:55:33.732
and at the global level.
0:55:33.732,0:55:35.991
So they became the target,
0:55:35.991,0:55:38.500
and this announcement became the…[br]what we were going to do.
0:55:38.500,0:55:42.231
And then, of course, when we're at the [br]conference, at the very last minute,
0:55:42.231,0:55:46.464
Lee Raymond, the former CEO of ExxonMobil,
0:55:46.464,0:55:50.126
who's now has a federal position [br]with the US government,
0:55:50.126,0:55:54.781
Doesn't show up, and [br]a substitute takes his place on the stage.
0:55:54.781,0:55:56.128
Then that's. Yeah.
0:55:56.128,0:55:59.050
So did I answer the question?[br]I can't remember.
0:55:59.050,0:56:02.193
H: I think someone wanted to know [br]how you you came up with the idea.
0:56:02.193,0:56:03.132
H: But…[br]B: Yeah, that was...
0:56:03.132,0:56:04.689
H: But that is also difficult to answer, [br]right?
0:56:04.689,0:56:10.189
B: I think it was really just shooting the[br]shit, as they say, with with some friends.
0:56:10.189,0:56:15.914
And as I remember, it was a guy called Bob[br]Ostertag, who worked with us for a while,
0:56:15.914,0:56:23.577
who is actually a more of like a musician.[br]And, you know, anyway…
0:56:23.577,0:56:28.333
He was the one, I think, [br]who really pushed that idea forward.
0:56:28.333,0:56:31.740
And it turned out to be a really fun one.[br]laughs
0:56:31.740,0:56:35.754
H: I mean it's basically a direct callback[br]to the Jonathan Swift stuff, right?
0:56:35.754,0:56:41.039
You really get very into people's bodies.
0:56:41.039,0:56:46.828
B: It is. It's a classic. I mean,[br]babies, people eating them, cannibalism…
0:56:46.828,0:56:48.297
I mean, these are like…
0:56:48.297,0:56:53.558
You know, they hit you. They hit you.[br]Right where it, right where you feel it.
0:56:53.558,0:56:57.556
chuckles[br]H: Yeah. All right. Another question is:
0:56:57.556,0:57:01.640
Do you worry at all that your [br]campaigns erode trust in the media?
0:57:01.640,0:57:05.300
Or do you just think that they should [br]maybe pay some more attention?
0:57:05.300,0:57:07.934
B: Yeah, no, we don't worry[br]about that at all. I mean, it's…
0:57:07.934,0:57:11.960
It's weird because for a while, there[br]was something to worry about there,
0:57:11.960,0:57:14.787
because people's, y'know, [br]trust in the media.
0:57:14.787,0:57:22.198
I mean, now it's just a… it's just [br]a weird landscape, totally bizarre.
0:57:22.198,0:57:25.451
I mean, in terms of what people believe[br]or don't believe.
0:57:25.451,0:57:28.982
One of the things that[br]we do all the time, though, is
0:57:28.982,0:57:34.998
reveal our hoaxes immediately[br]after we perpetrate them.
0:57:34.998,0:57:38.814
And so the result is that [br]there is actually more information
0:57:38.814,0:57:44.741
as opposed to, you know, [br]what we see as fake news
0:57:44.741,0:57:47.304
which is people[br]who are perpetrating a hoax,
0:57:47.304,0:57:51.483
and they mean for it to [br]exist for eternity, ideally.
0:57:51.483,0:57:55.326
Like, if you create a falsehood,[br]and you're not revealing it,
0:57:55.326,0:58:00.601
that's the type of thing[br]that the advertising industry,
0:58:00.601,0:58:06.993
PR agencies have done, and[br]governments have done for centuries.
0:58:06.993,0:58:13.004
But our types of hoaxes [br]are meant to be revealed right away.
0:58:13.004,0:58:16.504
H: All right. I have a mysterious question.[br]B: Yes!
0:58:16.504,0:58:19.746
H: Oh, OK. Now I understand. What are [br]your thoughts about the orange man?
0:58:19.746,0:58:22.388
And I've just realized that [br]that's Donald Trump.
0:58:22.388,0:58:26.705
B: Oh, I don't know if I would have gone...[br]H: Or just unrelated orange person,
0:58:26.705,0:58:29.550
if you know any.[br]B: Yeah, I mean, it's confusing for me
0:58:29.550,0:58:34.200
because an orange man. I started thinking[br]about Poland and about there's all kinds
0:58:34.200,0:58:41.059
of orange people here and there, but [br]chuckles Or orange movements. Anyway, the
0:58:41.059,0:58:46.579
orange man, oh, God, no. Horrible.[br]H: All right, so the Dutch national
0:58:46.579,0:58:50.090
football team, what's your opinion? That's[br]different orange men, right?
0:58:50.090,0:58:55.170
B: Yes, the Dutch football. I have to,[br]have to be a fan because my mother is
0:58:55.170,0:59:00.059
Dutch. What can I say? And also, it's like[br]a tiny country and I like kind of an
0:59:00.059,0:59:04.859
underdog that still out…like…does really[br]ridiculously well. I mean, I don't know.
0:59:04.859,0:59:09.548
I don't know. I'm not… [br]Football is awesome. Yes. Why not?
0:59:09.548,0:59:12.619
Nothing that wrong with it.[br]chuckles
0:59:12.619,0:59:16.900
H: Is there a reason you don't have a bulb[br]in your socket on your ceiling?
0:59:16.900,0:59:21.839
B: Oh, yeah. [br]It's because I moved it to here.
0:59:21.839,0:59:24.420
laughs[br]H: Ahh, nice.
0:59:24.420,0:59:30.940
B: This is my studio lighting and I got[br]rid of that one and I created this one.
0:59:30.940,0:59:35.029
H: It looks great. I also have [br]all the lights pointed at me now.
0:59:35.029,0:59:38.910
B: chuckles[br]Thanks for that question. I like it.
0:59:38.910,0:59:44.220
H: Here.That's interesting. Can we trace[br]the lineage of the tire rubber ducks into
0:59:44.220,0:59:49.249
Chinese umbrellas back to that taped[br]bread? I think it's about these helmets.
0:59:49.249,0:59:52.700
B: Yes. Yes, definitely.[br]chuckles
0:59:52.700,0:59:59.869
I don't know actually. If anybody can do[br]that, do let me know. The empty bulb,
0:59:59.869,1:00:06.150
though. I'm putting my finger on right[br]now. Here. Reminds me, though, that this
1:00:06.150,1:00:11.450
is like another… I remember the CIA[br]sabotage manual that they were dropping on
1:00:11.450,1:00:18.190
El Salvador…actually, on Nicaragua. Sorry.[br]Where they were encouraging people to like
1:00:18.190,1:00:24.033
sabotage everywhere because at the time it[br]was, y'know, communist. And so the idea
1:00:24.033,1:00:29.570
was that if people broke everything, then [br]the country would come to a standstill.
1:00:29.570,1:00:34.420
So they suggested things like taking the[br]light bulb out and putting a coin in there
1:00:34.420,1:00:39.739
and putting the light bulb back in. So, I[br]don't know. You know, everybody uses these
1:00:39.739,1:00:48.879
tactics. Again, thinking about the[br]CIA's flying penis. You know.
1:00:48.879,1:00:53.720
H: Oh, now it is the CIA.[br]B: Yeah, CIA sabotage manuals.
1:00:53.720,1:00:57.840
H: Maybe one last question. [br]Do you have any projects in the pipeline?
1:00:57.840,1:01:01.499
I mean, I assume you don't want[br]to talk about them, but you can.
1:01:01.499,1:01:07.369
B: You know, we have a movie about walls[br]that we're working on. But we took a
1:01:07.369,1:01:14.490
hiatus with COVID. And we have a whole[br]bunch of other things that are in the
1:01:14.490,1:01:17.580
works. Some of them we're doing[br]independently, not as the Yes Men. But I'm
1:01:17.580,1:01:24.119
doing stuff and Andy is doing stuff. And[br]yeah, we're also always trying to
1:01:24.119,1:01:31.500
recalibrate because, you know, the terrain[br]is changing so quickly. And it's such a
1:01:31.500,1:01:36.274
strange and interesting moment,[br]particularly in the United States,
1:01:36.274,1:01:40.740
but also all over the world.[br]H: Yeah, there's a... I mean, there's many
1:01:40.740,1:01:45.880
questions that are along the lines of[br]like, how do you feel about satire in this
1:01:45.880,1:01:50.950
year when it's just seems like half the[br]news is satire. Right? Or at least it
1:01:50.950,1:01:56.750
feels just completely unhinged. Right?[br]B: Yeah. And I don't think a lot of times
1:01:56.750,1:02:00.660
it doesn't... I don't think satire about[br]Donald Trump works. I don't even think
1:02:00.660,1:02:04.960
that any of this stuff that was on[br]Saturday Night Live was funny. You know,
1:02:04.960,1:02:09.729
where they impersonate the people in the[br]administration. It's just like worse
1:02:09.729,1:02:15.119
versions of the real thing that's really[br]funny if you could actually laugh about it
1:02:15.119,1:02:19.869
it if it wasn't real. I mean, it must[br]have been the same, like looking at Hitler
1:02:19.869,1:02:23.219
in the in the 30's, you know, like you[br]probably look at that and think this
1:02:23.219,1:02:30.309
cannot be real. But, you know, here's this[br]crazy looking guy saying crazy shit. And
1:02:30.309,1:02:34.881
so then what do you do? And I think that[br]you you choose different tactics for a
1:02:34.881,1:02:38.569
while, but you fight.[br]H: It seems like the funniest thing to do
1:02:38.569,1:02:42.789
for him, would to just pretend he's giving[br]a coherent speech. Right?
1:02:42.789,1:02:46.755
B: Totally. Yeah. I mean, it is like…[br]laughs
1:02:46.755,1:02:48.508
He keeps outdoing himself.
1:02:48.508,1:02:53.254
What happened in the final weeks of [br]the campaign and just after,
1:02:53.254,1:02:59.677
with Giuliani and the Four Seasons Total [br]Landscaping, and the face melting off,
1:02:59.677,1:03:02.669
and the… I mean, there were so[br]many things where you just like
1:03:02.669,1:03:09.911
the levels of crazy theater were… [br]Oh man. I… Yeah. Anyway.
1:03:09.911,1:03:14.286
H: I mean, you could have definitely just[br]claimed that as a Yes Men stunt.
1:03:14.286,1:03:20.152
B: Definitely. Definitely. [br]It was a stroke of genius that. laughs
1:03:20.152,1:03:21.983
H: Yes. Alright, maybe a last question.
1:03:21.983,1:03:27.029
Do you have any things [br]that failed spectacularly that you…
1:03:27.029,1:03:28.970
B: Yes![br]H: …want reveal to the world?
1:03:28.970,1:03:34.410
B: Yes. We have many things that have[br]failed spectacularly. And there's some of
1:03:34.410,1:03:39.850
them that you can read about on the Yes[br]Men website, which is at theyesmen.org.
1:03:39.850,1:03:42.802
And one in particular that [br]I recommend reading about
1:03:42.802,1:03:48.585
that we documented, at least in text, [br]is an event where we impersonated a
1:03:48.585,1:03:54.354
group called the International Web Police[br]who claimed to be securing the Internet.
1:03:54.354,1:03:59.571
This is back in the late 90's, [br]or around 2002 or something.
1:03:59.571,1:04:07.008
Anyway, it was a funny event. And… yes. [br]I'm not going to get into it here.
1:04:07.008,1:04:11.776
But it amuses me just to think about it. [br]chuckles
1:04:11.776,1:04:15.842
H: All right. Thank you very much.
1:04:15.842,1:04:17.956
B: Thank you so much! [br]H: Somehow you have disappeared from my screen.
1:04:17.956,1:04:21.339
All right. Now there you are. [br]Well, thank you.
1:04:21.339,1:04:22.884
B: Thank you!
1:04:22.884,1:04:27.711
H: I think we will go offline[br]at some random point now.
1:04:27.711,1:04:29.577
Goodbye, Internet.
1:04:29.577,1:04:30.666
B: Goodbye.
1:04:30.666,1:04:31.639
postroll music
1:04:31.639,1:05:09.880
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