0:00:00.030,0:00:01.830 ♪ [music] ♪ 0:00:03.630,0:00:05.630 - [Narrator] Welcome to [br]Nobel Conversations. 0:00:06.930,0:00:10.300 In this episode,[br]Josh Angrist and Guido Imbens, 0:00:10.300,0:00:13.380 sit down with Isaiah Andrews [br]to discuss the key ingredients 0:00:13.380,0:00:15.700 in their Nobel-winning collaboration. 0:00:16.700,0:00:19.590 Josh and Guido, first congratulations[br]on the Nobel Prize! 0:00:19.590,0:00:20.620 Thank you. 0:00:20.620,0:00:23.190 - [Isaiah] The work you did together,[br]particularly the work 0:00:23.190,0:00:26.186 on the Local Average Treatment Effect,[br]or LATE framework 0:00:26.186,0:00:28.900 was cited as one of the big reasons [br]you won the prize. 0:00:29.200,0:00:32.600 At the same time, you only[br]overlapped at Harvard for a year-- 0:00:32.900,0:00:34.300 if I'm remembering correctly-- 0:00:35.210,0:00:38.500 it would be great to hear a bit more [br]about how you started this collaboration 0:00:38.500,0:00:40.964 and what made your working[br]relationship productive. 0:00:40.964,0:00:43.600 Are there ways in which you felt like [br]you complimented each other, 0:00:43.600,0:00:46.790 what got things started[br]on such a productive, trajectory? 0:00:46.790,0:00:50.624 Your job talk, as I recall, Guido,[br]it wasn't very interesting 0:00:50.624,0:00:52.740 but I think it was [br]a choice-based sampling-- 0:00:52.740,0:00:54.600 It was. It was.[br][laughter] 0:00:54.600,0:00:56.280 I was a very marginal hire there 0:00:56.280,0:00:58.336 because they didn't [br]actually interview me 0:00:58.336,0:00:59.830 on the regular job market, 0:00:59.830,0:01:03.240 but I think they were very desperate [br]to get someone else 0:01:03.240,0:01:04.900 to actually teach their courses. 0:01:05.920,0:01:08.470 It was after they had [br]a couple of seminars already 0:01:08.470,0:01:11.123 and they're still looking [br]in econometrics, 0:01:11.135,0:01:13.940 - ...so Gary called me and kind of--[br]- [Josh] Gary Chamberlain? 0:01:13.940,0:01:16.700 Gary Chamberlain called me and[br]interviewed me over the telephone. 0:01:17.400,0:01:21.089 He said, "Okay, well, why don't you [br]come out and give a talk?" 0:01:21.089,0:01:23.541 - [Josh] I remember this talk [br]a little bit. 0:01:23.541,0:01:27.140 I remember the dinner that [br]you and Gary and I had. 0:01:29.000,0:01:32.900 I remember not being very excited[br]about your job market paper, 0:01:33.600,0:01:38.220 but I saw that Gary was and luckily,[br]Gary's view prevailed... 0:01:38.580,0:01:39.600 Yes. 0:01:39.600,0:01:41.900 - [Josh] ...and Harvard [br]made you an offer 0:01:42.400,0:01:46.300 and I think we started talking to [br]each other pretty pretty soon after 0:01:46.300,0:01:49.810 you arrived in the fall of 1990, right? 0:01:49.810,0:01:52.990 As I said, I came [br]and I didn't have a very clear agenda. 0:01:52.990,0:01:55.700 I was a little intimidated getting there. 0:01:56.000,0:01:59.776 But Gary kind of said, [br]"No, you should talk to Josh." 0:01:59.776,0:02:04.578 You should go to the labor seminar,[br]kind of see what these people do. 0:02:04.578,0:02:06.600 They're doing very [br]interesting things there." 0:02:07.470,0:02:09.370 I listened to Gary. 0:02:10.000,0:02:11.188 As we did. 0:02:11.188,0:02:14.834 As we did in the those days [br]and ever since. 0:02:14.834,0:02:16.700 I think it helped that [br]we were neighbors. 0:02:16.700,0:02:20.774 We both lived in Harvard's[br]junior faculty housing, 0:02:22.250,0:02:25.040 partly because housing costs[br]were very high in Cambridge 0:02:25.040,0:02:27.400 relative to our salary, [br]which was very low. 0:02:27.800,0:02:29.456 I think it also made a difference, 0:02:29.456,0:02:31.212 neither of us came from Cambridge, 0:02:31.212,0:02:33.720 so there were a lot of MIT people 0:02:33.720,0:02:36.441 who already had their whole networks, 0:02:36.441,0:02:38.000 kind of our collaborators. 0:02:38.000,0:02:39.600 ♪ [music] ♪ 0:02:39.600,0:02:41.850 - [Josh] Well, I think we had figured out 0:02:41.850,0:02:43.800 a mode of working together, also. 0:02:43.800,0:02:46.600 We had kind of a regular date, [br]so we were neighbors 0:02:46.860,0:02:48.760 and we often did [br]our laundry together. 0:02:49.160,0:02:51.860 We didn't have laundry[br]machines at our apartments. 0:02:52.500,0:02:55.450 But we used to do our laundry[br]and we were talking 0:02:55.450,0:02:59.300 and you had a way [br]of fairly systematically, 0:03:00.100,0:03:03.300 addressing questions that[br]would come up in our discussions 0:03:03.300,0:03:05.800 and the one thing that [br]I was very impressed by, 0:03:06.400,0:03:09.000 our early interaction,[br]is you would follow up. 0:03:09.993,0:03:11.590 You would write some things down. 0:03:11.590,0:03:13.390 Looking back at those days,[br]sort of clearly, 0:03:13.390,0:03:16.460 I just had a lot more time [br]to actually think. 0:03:16.460,0:03:19.600 - I look at my junior colleagues now-- [br]- You don't have time to think now. 0:03:19.600,0:03:23.243 No, but for me that is [br]kind of one thing, 0:03:23.243,0:03:24.850 but I feel now a lot of [br]my junior colleagues 0:03:24.850,0:03:27.200 don't actually have a lot [br]of time to think. 0:03:27.200,0:03:29.710 People are just doing [br]so many projects, 0:03:29.710,0:03:31.800 and it's actually so hard 0:03:31.800,0:03:34.560 and there's so much pressure [br]on people to publish. 0:03:34.560,0:03:38.411 I remember spending a lot of time [br]sitting in my office 0:03:38.411,0:03:41.505 and thinking, [br]"Wow, what shall I do now?" 0:03:41.505,0:03:42.505 [laughter] 0:03:43.070,0:03:45.096 But it would give me a lot of time 0:03:45.096,0:03:46.883 to actually think about these problems 0:03:46.906,0:03:49.100 and trying to figure it them out 0:03:49.100,0:03:50.900 and I could actually go to seminars 0:03:52.000,0:03:56.651 and then the next day have coffee [br]or lunch with Josh or Gary 0:03:56.651,0:03:59.020 and actually talk about those things. 0:03:59.020,0:04:01.528 - [Isaiah] You guys weren't actually [br]at Harvard together all that long, 0:04:01.528,0:04:03.300 you started working[br]together pretty quickly. 0:04:03.300,0:04:06.600 Were you both in the mindset that [br]you were looking for co-authors, 0:04:06.600,0:04:09.260 or looking for a particular type[br]of types of co-authors at the time 0:04:09.260,0:04:11.600 or was it more sort of [br]fortuitous than that? 0:04:11.600,0:04:13.500 - [Josh] I think we were lucky. 0:04:13.500,0:04:15.848 I don't remember that I was looking. 0:04:15.850,0:04:18.370 I think, it was more fortuitous. 0:04:18.370,0:04:21.411 I said I came in, [br]I'd done my job market paper, 0:04:21.600,0:04:23.110 and another paper for my thesis 0:04:23.110,0:04:25.500 and I was just very happy [br]to come to Harvard 0:04:25.500,0:04:27.801 and suddenly there were all these[br]seminars to go to, 0:04:28.262,0:04:30.712 and lots of interesting people [br]to talk to, 0:04:31.200,0:04:35.805 but it wasn't a very[br]conscious thing on my part. 0:04:36.300,0:04:39.200 Looking back, I think there[br]was a moment for me, 0:04:39.700,0:04:42.933 where I was discussing [br]instrumental variables, 0:04:42.933,0:04:46.020 potential outcomes, [br]treatment effects with Guido 0:04:47.000,0:04:50.109 and we had a pretty good discussion, 0:04:50.109,0:04:54.400 but then he also sent me some notes 0:04:55.770,0:05:00.695 and the notes were very methodical[br]write-up of our discussion 0:05:00.695,0:05:02.966 and what you thought 0:05:03.600,0:05:07.457 we had been concluding [br]in a fairly formal way 0:05:07.457,0:05:09.887 and I thought, "Well, that's great." 0:05:10.340,0:05:13.020 Talk is cheap, right, [br]but with somebody... 0:05:13.020,0:05:15.514 - [Guido] Yeah, but--[br]- ...really writes out their story. 0:05:15.900,0:05:18.500 - [Guido] For me, it really helps[br]writing things down 0:05:18.500,0:05:22.771 and I do remember working with Josh 0:05:22.771,0:05:26.163 and sitting in my office [br]and writing things out 0:05:26.633,0:05:29.100 and you guys have all[br]had the discussions with Gary 0:05:29.100,0:05:32.532 where afterwards we need [br]to then sit down 0:05:32.532,0:05:34.230 and actually write things up 0:05:34.230,0:05:36.641 to figure out exactly [br]what was going on. 0:05:37.900,0:05:39.600 I think the other thing we had, [br]Guido, 0:05:39.600,0:05:41.815 is we had some [br]very concrete questions 0:05:41.815,0:05:43.750 that came from applications. 0:05:43.750,0:05:45.000 - [Guido] Yeah. 0:05:45.600,0:05:48.100 A lot of econometrics, in my view, 0:05:48.109,0:05:51.651 that we were schooled in [br]was about models, 0:05:51.670,0:05:55.000 here's a model and what can [br]you say about this model? 0:05:57.110,0:06:00.200 I think we were thinking about, [br]here's a particular scenario, 0:06:00.500,0:06:03.800 draft eligibility is an instrument[br]for whether you serve in the Army. 0:06:04.830,0:06:06.300 What do we learn from that? 0:06:06.300,0:06:07.300 - [Guido] That's right. 0:06:07.300,0:06:11.907 That's right, and that's sort of [br]where your influence 0:06:11.930,0:06:15.200 on the way I do research now [br]is still very clear-- 0:06:15.200,0:06:16.870 ♪ [music] ♪ 0:06:16.870,0:06:19.400 - [Isaiah] I guess zooming out [br]a little bit, just thinking about 0:06:19.400,0:06:20.940 when you guys started [br]working on this, 0:06:20.940,0:06:23.100 when you started working together, 0:06:23.100,0:06:24.500 any thoughts for folks 0:06:24.500,0:06:26.890 who are just interested in[br]finding productive 0:06:26.890,0:06:28.170 co-authors being productive? 0:06:28.170,0:06:30.900 I mean, Guido already mentioned[br]the importance of having time, 0:06:30.900,0:06:32.100 right, which it is. 0:06:32.100,0:06:35.000 It is very easily not to have [br]a lot of time to think-- 0:06:35.000,0:06:36.720 You definitely have to make time. 0:06:36.720,0:06:39.120 That's a great question though, [br]Isaiah, 0:06:40.400,0:06:43.038 and I tell my students that 0:06:43.038,0:06:46.800 you should pick your co-authors [br]as carefully, 0:06:46.800,0:06:48.805 maybe more carefully [br]than you pick your spouse. 0:06:49.390,0:06:51.774 You want to find co-authors who, 0:06:53.800,0:06:57.724 you have some complementarity 0:06:58.120,0:07:00.985 and that's what makes [br]a strong relationship. 0:07:03.200,0:07:06.900 You don't want to work with somebody[br]who sees the world exactly like you 0:07:09.300,0:07:11.684 and as much as Guido [br]and I agree about things, 0:07:11.990,0:07:14.990 we often disagree [br]about things to this day 0:07:15.835,0:07:18.692 and it's fruitful to have [br]those discussions 0:07:19.250,0:07:21.400 and we had complimentary skills. 0:07:21.400,0:07:24.700 I was very empirical. [br]I'm not really an abstract thinker. 0:07:25.500,0:07:29.800 Guido was great at figuring out [br]what the principles were. 0:07:30.100,0:07:34.500 Yeah, that's right and I totally[br]agree, kind of [inaudible] 0:07:34.700,0:07:37.829 These are incredibly[br]important relationships 0:07:37.829,0:07:42.400 and you see a lot of[br]people working together 0:07:42.600,0:07:45.727 and not necessarily working [br]very well 0:07:47.000,0:07:51.990 and then it's very hard often [br]to get out of this relationship. 0:07:52.900,0:07:56.000 A good partnering is a[br]beautiful thing, like a marriage. 0:07:56.500,0:07:58.500 It produces wonderful children, 0:07:59.500,0:08:03.408 the fruits of the scholarship are[br]potentially wonderful 0:08:03.408,0:08:07.666 and they exceed the capacity of the[br]partners to do it on their own 0:08:07.900,0:08:11.132 but a bad co-authorship [br]can be very destructive 0:08:11.155,0:08:14.629 and time consuming and painful,[br]just like a bad marriage. 0:08:16.190,0:08:19.262 Arguments may start about [br]who did what when 0:08:19.262,0:08:22.820 and intellectual property[br]type issues, 0:08:22.841,0:08:24.700 especially when it when [br]it goes a little sour 0:08:24.700,0:08:27.602 and somebody thinks the other party[br]is not pulling their weight. 0:08:30.100,0:08:32.300 There's more co-authorship[br]now in economics, 0:08:32.300,0:08:33.700 I think that's been documented, [br]much more. 0:08:33.700,0:08:34.700 - [Guido] Yes. 0:08:34.700,0:08:37.700 There's more teams[br]and there's larger teams 0:08:38.100,0:08:41.400 and I think that's great, [br]I love working on teams. 0:08:41.400,0:08:46.800 We do work on schools [br]with big teams. 0:08:47.000,0:08:50.100 I work often with PI teammates [br]like Parag Pathak and David Autor 0:08:50.100,0:08:51.100 and then a team of [br]graduate students, 0:08:51.100,0:08:55.400 but I see that the students [br]are not always, 0:08:55.400,0:08:57.700 in some ways they're a little [br]too promiscuous, 0:08:57.700,0:08:58.700 in my view, in their partnering. 0:08:58.700,0:09:02.600 They don't think it through. 0:09:02.600,0:09:03.600 It's difficult to think it's through. 0:09:03.600,0:09:08.500 I think, for me, working[br]with people always has involved 0:09:08.800,0:09:11.400 spending a lot of one-on-one[br]time with people, 0:09:11.600,0:09:16.400 you need to figure out [br]how they think 0:09:16.900,0:09:18.500 and what kind of problems [br]are interesting 0:09:18.600,0:09:22.600 and how they think about [br]these problems, 0:09:22.600,0:09:23.600 how they like to write, [br]to make that-- 0:09:23.600,0:09:26.600 And it takes some maturity on[br]everybody's part. 0:09:26.600,0:09:27.600 Yes. Yes. 0:09:27.600,0:09:29.600 In what sense? 0:09:29.600,0:09:30.600 Just in the sense of knowing [br]what's going to work for them, 0:09:30.600,0:09:32.900 knowing when things are[br]versus aren't working? 0:09:33.000,0:09:36.500 - [Josh] Maturity in the[br]sense of having some judgment 0:09:36.600,0:09:40.100 to be able to face it honestly,[br]if it's not going well, 0:09:40.300,0:09:45.100 sometimes you have to have [br]some difficult discussions. 0:09:45.250,0:09:46.250 Is it worth continuing? 0:09:46.400,0:09:49.100 "I was hoping you would do this, [br]and you didn't," 0:09:49.200,0:09:51.400 maybe it turns out [br]there's some feeling 0:09:51.400,0:09:54.155 in the other direction, [br]the same way. 0:09:54.155,0:09:56.800 And Josh is very good[br][chuckles] 0:09:56.800,0:09:59.600 in the being honest,[br]part from the beginning, 0:10:00.000,0:10:03.600 - [Josh] For better or worse. 0:10:03.600,0:10:04.600 - [Guido] I would write this stuff [br]and then I remember the 0:10:04.600,0:10:09.343 first version of the paper [br]with Rubin, 0:10:09.343,0:10:11.710 Josh was in Israel at the time,[br]Don and I were in Cambridge 0:10:12.900,0:10:15.500 and so I would talk [br]with Don regularly, 0:10:16.300,0:10:18.600 but Don wasn't really doing[br]much writing in those days, 0:10:18.600,0:10:20.400 I would write things [br]and then I would fax them to Josh 0:10:20.500,0:10:25.200 and they would come back, [br]first page just one big cross, No, 0:10:25.300,0:10:29.400 second page, one big line, No 0:10:30.800,0:10:31.700 and that would go for awhile 0:10:31.700,0:10:32.600 but he still does that. 0:10:32.600,0:10:36.800 I sent him the first draft [br]of my Nobel lecture, 0:10:36.900,0:10:38.100 and Josh goes, No, no! 0:10:38.800,0:10:43.300 I've gotten some PDF comments [br]like that from Josh, very helpful. 0:10:45.700,0:10:46.600 Omit needless words. 0:10:47.800,0:10:52.000 I have few co-authors[br]who are willing to do that. 0:10:53.200,0:10:58.400 Especially as you get older, [br]it's harder to put up with that. 0:10:59.300,0:11:03.100 I would find it harder now to start[br]working with people who did that 0:11:03.800,0:11:05.600 early on in a co-author relationship. 0:11:05.600,0:11:08.900 It's also very hard because [br]you need to have enough trust. 0:11:09.300,0:11:15.400 Josh, for being willing [br]to be very critical, 0:11:15.700,0:11:20.800 he was also willing [br]to admit being wrong. 0:11:21.150,0:11:22.150 ♪ [music] ♪ 0:11:22.500,0:11:25.600 - [Josh] But you have to be on[br]the lookout for good partners, 0:11:25.800,0:11:29.200 somebody who can help you [br]answer questions 0:11:29.200,0:11:30.200 that you can't answer yourself. 0:11:30.200,0:11:33.000 I think there's a natural tendency [br]for people to gravitate 0:11:33.000,0:11:34.400 to people who are similar [br]in outlook and skills 0:11:35.400,0:11:41.000 and that's not as useful 0:11:41.000,0:11:42.000 Josh is right, nowadays [br]it's very tempting 0:11:42.000,0:11:46.500 to find people who think [br]about the same problems 0:11:46.500,0:11:50.500 you're already thinking about,[br]who think along the same lines 0:11:53.000,0:11:56.400 and that may not lead [br]to very novel stuff. 0:11:58.500,0:12:01.800 But at the same time finding people 0:12:01.800,0:12:02.800 who actually have [br]very different ideas, 0:12:02.800,0:12:05.000 it's going to take a lot of time. 0:12:05.200,0:12:08.390 Guido, you mentioned in passing [br]how working with Josh 0:12:08.390,0:12:10.290 has influenced how you do research, 0:12:10.290,0:12:11.600 could you say a little more [br]about that? 0:12:11.600,0:12:14.100 I'd also be interested [br]to hear from Josh, 0:12:14.100,0:12:15.100 did working with Guido influence [br]the way that you do research? 0:12:17.500,0:12:20.900 - [Guido] Nowadays, I'm much [br]more conscious of the fact that, 0:12:20.900,0:12:24.600 for me, good economic research 0:12:24.600,0:12:25.600 comes out of talking to people [br]doing empirical work, 0:12:25.600,0:12:29.300 and it's really not reading [br]econometrica 0:12:29.800,0:12:31.500 or the reading the stats journals, 0:12:31.500,0:12:35.000 but it's actually talking to people[br]doing empirical work, 0:12:35.100,0:12:37.200 going to the empirical seminars. 0:12:38.100,0:12:40.300 When I was at Berkeley, 0:12:40.400,0:12:45.500 David Carr and Raj Chetty, [br]as colleagues there 0:12:45.500,0:12:46.700 and I would talk to them [br]and listen to them, 0:12:46.900,0:12:48.200 trying to figure out 0:12:49.900,0:12:54.500 how are they solving their problems [br]and other things there 0:12:54.700,0:12:57.424 where I'm not really quite happy [br]with the way they're doing things 0:12:57.424,0:13:04.200 and trying to look for [br]methodological problems, 0:13:04.200,0:13:07.900 where there's some more [br]general solutions possible. 0:13:07.900,0:13:11.700 I tried to tell it to my students[br]that I encourage them to work 0:13:11.800,0:13:14.500 as research assistants also, 0:13:14.500,0:13:18.724 for the people doing empirical work [br]at Stanford. 0:13:19.700,0:13:21.100 There was no [subbing] 0:13:21.100,0:13:22.100 but that I learned while [br]I was in graduate school, 0:13:22.100,0:13:25.000 but it really came out of [br]working with Josh. 0:13:25.000,0:13:26.000 as well as talking to Gary, 0:13:26.000,0:13:31.000 Gary us was always encouraging [br]of doing that 0:13:31.000,0:13:33.600 and because he done that himself, 0:13:33.600,0:13:36.900 he'd worked with on empirical [br]problems with Zvi Griliches 0:13:36.900,0:13:39.500 early in his career. 0:13:39.500,0:13:40.500 Yeah. 0:13:40.500,0:13:44.600 Well, I became more more interested[br]in the econometric theory 0:13:45.400,0:13:47.000 through our interaction, 0:13:47.100,0:13:52.400 and I think empiricists are often [br]impatient with econometric theory, 0:13:52.400,0:13:55.500 partly because empirical work is[br]very time-consuming, 0:13:56.000,0:13:59.100 and you may have a sense [br]that something is 0:13:59.300,0:14:02.400 convincing and sensible 0:14:03.000,0:14:04.100 and you haven't really fully [br]made the case for that, 0:14:04.100,0:14:05.100 but you're convinced 0:14:05.100,0:14:09.700 and that motivates you to pursue it,[br]like the draft lottery story. 0:14:10.700,0:14:17.300 I was pretty sure that was[br]worth doing 0:14:17.300,0:14:21.100 and I came away from [br]working with Guido 0:14:21.100,0:14:24.800 seeing that there was [br]the potential to say something 0:14:24.800,0:14:25.800 more than just about [br]that particular problem, 0:14:25.800,0:14:29.500 and I think over the those early[br]years in the 90s, 0:14:29.500,0:14:35.000 our thinking evolved together [br]that there's actually a framework, 0:14:35.100,0:14:37.800 a way to solve a lot of problems 0:14:38.200,0:14:41.700 and I think that that is the power[br]of the late framework, 0:14:41.700,0:14:42.800 is it answers a lot of questions [br]in some sense. 0:14:43.150,0:14:44.150 ♪ [music] ♪ 0:14:44.500,0:14:46.300 In some sense, did you find that, 0:14:46.300,0:14:50.700 email versus facts versus in-person,[br]the medium mattered 0:14:50.700,0:14:52.000 to how collaboration went 0:14:52.100,0:14:54.300 or they're ways that you felt like 0:14:54.300,0:14:55.300 it was the most useful [br]to collaborate? 0:14:55.300,0:14:59.700 To me, I think what matters most is,[br]initially you have a period-- 0:15:00.000,0:15:04.100 We needed that initial period, 0:15:04.100,0:15:05.100 that was very intense with [br]almost daily interaction 0:15:05.100,0:15:08.800 and we also became friends. 0:15:08.900,0:15:13.900 You don't develop the kind of [br]friendship, electronically usually 0:15:15.000,0:15:19.000 but once you have that foundation [br]you can be pen pals 0:15:19.300,0:15:25.300 and we did use e-mail, [br]though it wasn't as useful then 0:15:25.500,0:15:28.400 but it worked, [br]but we definitely had a lot of faxes. 0:15:28.400,0:15:34.000 I still have these faxes, long faxes 0:15:34.000,0:15:35.000 and then in the summer, [br]I would come to Cambridge, 0:15:35.000,0:15:40.300 usually to the NBR meetings [br]and hang around for a few weeks 0:15:40.300,0:15:43.000 and you visited me in Israel. 0:15:43.000,0:15:44.000 I visited in Israel. 0:15:44.000,0:15:48.400 But yeah, there was good foundation[br]from that that year 0:15:48.500,0:15:51.000 and in some sense that was enough. 0:15:51.500,0:15:53.000 and nowadays, 0:15:53.300,0:15:56.600 I have the co-authors[br]in lots of different places, 0:15:56.600,0:15:59.100 but it's always been important 0:15:59.200,0:16:01.400 to spend some time with people [br]in the same place each year. 0:16:01.500,0:16:04.900 You understand how they work, [br]how they think, 0:16:05.000,0:16:07.600 even to the point that, 0:16:07.600,0:16:09.400 you know when they actually respond, 0:16:09.400,0:16:10.400 whether they respond quickly [br]or whether that means, 0:16:10.400,0:16:14.100 they're not actually doing anything 0:16:14.100,0:16:15.100 or that mean they're thinking hard [br]about a problem 0:16:15.100,0:16:17.300 and they just take take longer. 0:16:17.300,0:16:20.200 but you do need to[br]develop some understanding there. 0:16:20.200,0:16:24.304 ♪ [music] ♪ 0:16:24.304,0:16:25.900 We've talked about [br]how your collaboration started, 0:16:26.900,0:16:31.000 maybe just to step back slightly [br]were they're sort of features about 0:16:31.000,0:16:34.000 the environment at Harvard [br]or in Cambridge, at the time, 0:16:34.000,0:16:35.000 which you felt like contributed to it? 0:16:35.000,0:16:37.400 Coming from Brown, 0:16:38.000,0:16:42.100 I felt it was very intimidating place[br]because it clearly was a very, very 0:16:43.500,0:16:45.100 impressive set of people. 0:16:45.200,0:16:48.200 Zvi Griliches was there, [br]Dale Jorgensen-- 0:16:48.200,0:16:49.200 Gary, Jerry Hausman, Whitney Newey,[br]sometimes Jamie Robins. 0:16:52.600,0:16:55.900 I mean, my view of that [br]in retrospect, 0:16:55.900,0:16:58.300 I can't say I loved every[br]minute of every talk 0:16:58.300,0:16:59.500 I ever gave in that Workshop, 0:16:59.500,0:17:01.400 but that was the highest powered, 0:17:01.400,0:17:02.400 that was the group [br]you wanted to reach... 0:17:02.400,0:17:03.400 - [Guido] Yeah. 0:17:03.400,0:17:04.900 And you would get extraordinarily [br]insightful feedback, 0:17:05.100,0:17:10.600 even if it wasn't always [br]easy to swallow. 0:17:11.300,0:17:12.940 Yeah, and I have for a while, 0:17:12.940,0:17:16.200 I would basically give [br]a talk every semester 0:17:16.200,0:17:19.000 because we didn't have any money[br]to be inviting people. 0:17:19.500,0:17:22.000 Gary would say, [br]"Well, why don't you give a talk?" 0:17:22.350,0:17:23.350 [laughter] 0:17:26.800,0:17:31.600 That was the arena for young people[br]with our interest. 0:17:31.700,0:17:34.700 - [Guido] Yeah, it was really [br]very impressive, 0:17:35.000,0:17:36.600 but it was quite tough-- 0:17:36.700,0:17:37.700 It was intimidating. 0:17:37.800,0:17:41.000 People there had very strong[br]views on what they thought was 0:17:41.200,0:17:46.100 the way you should do econometrics, 0:17:46.850,0:17:47.850 the way the direction [br]things should go, 0:17:48.600,0:17:53.300 now, I would think things were[br]getting a little stale that in fact, 0:17:53.300,0:17:56.000 we were bringing in a lot[br]of the new ideas... 0:17:56.000,0:17:57.000 - [Josh] Yeah. 0:17:57.000,0:18:01.900 ...and that wasn't necessary[br]immediately appreciated. 0:18:02.800,0:18:04.300 - [Josh] But that's okay.[br]- And that's fine. 0:18:04.300,0:18:10.140 We were pushed [br]and a lot of great discussions 0:18:11.250,0:18:13.000 in that workshop about [br]what should we make of late? 0:18:13.000,0:18:15.800 But there were other questions[br]that were just as interesting, 0:18:15.800,0:18:18.000 like the role of [br]the propensity score, 0:18:18.400,0:18:19.600 that was a big deal in the 90s 0:18:19.700,0:18:24.300 and econometrics was [br]moving towards that 0:18:25.000,0:18:27.800 and there were a lot [br]of great questions. 0:18:27.900,0:18:28.500 Yeah, 0:18:28.500,0:18:33.300 I learned a huge amount[br]there from the time I spent-- 0:18:33.300,0:18:34.900 - [Josh] I think the other thing [br]that Guido and I 0:18:35.000,0:18:36.900 both benefited from is we both, 0:18:37.400,0:18:40.500 not at the same time, but in[br]early in our careers, taught 0:18:40.800,0:18:42.700 econometrics with Gary Chamberlain, 0:18:43.200,0:18:46.500 and that was like an[br]apprenticeship for us, I think. 0:18:46.800,0:18:51.500 I taught a mixed graduate,[br]undergrad 1126, 0:18:51.500,0:18:52.100 I don't know if they still have [br]that number,... 0:18:52.500,0:18:53.500 - [Isaiah] Ahuh, they do. 0:18:53.900,0:18:57.800 ...very interesting course that it had 0:18:57.800,0:18:58.800 both graduate and undergraduate [br]enrollment 0:18:58.800,0:19:04.900 and it was relatively applied for [br]an econometrics class, 0:19:05.000,0:19:06.600 and I learned a lot by teaching [br]that with Gary. 0:19:07.500,0:19:10.100 But in that sense, [br]Harvard was a great place, 0:19:11.350,0:19:12.350 very flexible there. 0:19:13.600,0:19:16.332 The other thing I remember [br]about Harvard is, 0:19:16.710,0:19:20.150 well I had very good students, 0:19:20.300,0:19:25.100 I taught a lot of wonderful students 0:19:25.200,0:19:26.200 who went on to have [br]wonderful careers. 0:19:26.300,0:19:30.750 Also, Harvard as an institution, 0:19:30.750,0:19:31.750 you're probably are aware of this, [br]Isaiah, 0:19:31.750,0:19:34.800 as a junior faculty member, [br]they didn't then ask much of us, 0:19:35.000,0:19:37.300 other than teaching our classes. 0:19:37.800,0:19:41.300 We didn't have administrative concerns,[br]to speak of. 0:19:41.300,0:19:45.300 I think I went to two faculty meetings[br]in my two years at Harvard 0:19:46.600,0:19:50.920 and so we're left-- 0:19:50.920,0:19:53.400 You were given a lot of freedom [br]and flexibility. 0:19:53.400,0:19:58.100 I went to the chair said, [br]"Can I teach this course with Rubin?" 0:19:59.000,0:20:04.100 I think it was Friedman[br]at the time. It was like, "Fine." 0:20:05.200,0:20:10.100 It wasn't really any concern about [br]what what it was about 0:20:10.700,0:20:12.350 and again, that was a very [br]intimidating experience, 0:20:12.350,0:20:13.350 but it was a great experience. 0:20:13.350,0:20:14.350 ♪ [music] ♪ 0:20:14.700,0:20:17.600 - [Narrator] If you'd like to watch more[br]Nobel Conversations, click here.