0:00:14.477,0:00:19.147
In 2013, I decided to meet my enemies.

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I was a 27-year-old, award-winning[br]documentary filmmaker

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and a proud feminist.

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And I was determined[br]to expose the dark underbelly

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of the men's rights movement.

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At that point, all I knew[br]of the men's rights movement

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was from what I'd read online,

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that it's a misogynistic hate group[br]actively working against women's equality.

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Well, the vast majority[br]of my previous work

0:00:47.245,0:00:48.895
was about women's issues.

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I directed documentaries[br]about reproductive rights,

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single motherhood,

0:00:52.965,0:00:55.759
and the need for more girls[br]to get into STEM education.

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So when I learned that no one had ever[br]documented the men's rights movement

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in a film before,

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I saw it as an opportunity[br]to continue fighting for women's equality

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by exposing those preventing it.

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So for one year, I traveled North America

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meeting the leaders and followers[br]of the men's rights movement.

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I spent anywhere[br]from two hours up to eight hours,

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interviewing each individual[br]men's rights activist,

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also known as MRA,

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and I filmed 44 people total.

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And there is an important rule[br]in documentary filmmaking.

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As an interviewer, you do not interrupt.

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So I'm asking questions,[br]and I'm getting their full life story.

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And in the moment, I didn't realize it,

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but now looking back I can see,

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that while I was conducting my interviews,[br]I wasn't actually listening.

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I was hearing them speak,

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and I knew the cameras were recording,

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but in those moments[br]of sitting across from my enemy,

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I wasn't listening.

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What was I doing?

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I was anticipating.

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I was waiting to hear a sentence,

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or even just a couple[br]of words in succession

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that proved what I wanted to believe:

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that I had found the misogynist.

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The ground zero of the war on women.

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A couple of times, I thought I had it.

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There was one men's rights activist

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that said to me,

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"Just walk outside and look around,

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everything you see was built by a man."

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Oh!

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That statement felt anti-women.

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I felt my jaw clench,

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but I sat quietly,[br]as a documentarian should,

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while removing all the space[br]between my upper and lower molars.

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(Laughter)

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After my year of filming,

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I was reviewing the 100 hours[br]of footage I had gathered,

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replaying and transcribing it,

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which believe me when I say

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no one will ever listen to you more[br]than someone who transcribes your words.

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You should write that down.

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(Laughter)

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So,

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I was typing out every word meticulously,

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and through that process,[br]I began to realize

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that my initial knee-jerk reactions[br]to certain statements

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weren't really warranted,

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and my feeling offended[br]did not hold up to intense scrutiny.

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Was that statement about men

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having built the skyscrapers[br]and the bridges anti-women?

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I thought, well, what would[br]be the gender-reverse scenario?

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Maybe a feminist saying:

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Just look around,

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everyone you see was birthed by a woman.

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Wow!

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That's a powerful statement.

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And it's true.

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Is it anti-male?

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I don't think so.

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I think it's acknowledging our unique[br]and valued contributions to our society.

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Well, luckily,

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while I was making The Red Pill movie,

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I kept a video diary which ended up[br]tracking my evolving views,

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and in looking back on the 37 diaries[br]I recorded that year,

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there was a common theme.

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I would often hear[br]an innocent, valid point

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that a men's rights activist would make,

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but in my head,

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I would add on to their statements,[br]a sexist or anti-woman spin,

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assuming that's what they[br]wanted to say but didn't.

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So here are two examples[br]of how that would go.

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A men's rights activist,[br]an MRA, would say to me,

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"There are over 2,000[br]domestic violence shelters

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for women in the United States.

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But only one for men.

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Yet, multiple reputable studies show[br]that men are just as likely to be abused."

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I would hear them say,

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"We don't need 2,000 shelters for women.

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They're all lying about being abused.

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It's all a scam."

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But in looking back[br]on all the footages I've gathered

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of men's rights activists[br]talking about shelters

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and all the blogs they've written

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and the video live-streams[br]they have posted on YouTube,

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they are not trying[br]to defund women's shelters.

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Not at all.

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All they're saying[br]is that men can be abused too,

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and they deserve care and compassion.

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Second example.

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A men's rights activist would say to me,

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"Where is justice for the man[br]who was falsely accused of raping a woman,

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and because of this accusation,

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he loses his college scholarship

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and is branded with the inescapable[br]title of a rapist."

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I would hear them say,

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"A woman being raped isn't a big deal."

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It's as if I didn't hear the word[br]"falsely" accused of rape.

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All I heard was, "He was accused of rape."

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Of course, rape is a big deal,

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and all the men's rights activists I met[br]agreed it is a horrible thing

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to have happened to anyone.

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I eventually realized what they are saying

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is they are trying to add[br]to the gender equality discussion,

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who is standing up

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for the good-hearted, honorable man[br]that loses his scholarship, his job,

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or worse yet, his children,

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because he is accused of something[br]he absolutely did not do?

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(Sighs)

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Well, I couldn't keep denying[br]the points they were making.

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There are real issues.

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But in my effort to avoid agreeing[br]with my enemy completely,

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I changed from putting words[br]in their mouth

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to acknowledging the issue[br]but insisting they are women's issues.

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So here are two examples[br]of how that would go.

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A men's rights activist would say to me,

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"Men are far more likely[br]to lose their child in a custody battle."

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And I would counter:

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"Well, because women are unfairly[br]expected to be the caretaker.

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It's discrimination against women[br]that women get custody more often."

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Yes.

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(Laughter)

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I am not proud of that.

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(Laughter)

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Second example.

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An MRA would say to me,

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"Men are roughly 78% of all suicides[br]throughout the world."

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And I would counter with:

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"But women attempt suicide more often.

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So ha!

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(Laughter)

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Ha?

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It's not a contest.

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But I kept making it into one.

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Why couldn't I simply learn[br]about men's issues

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and have compassion for male victims

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without jumping at the opportunity[br]to insist that women are the real victims.

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Well, after years of researching[br]and fact-checking,

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what the men's rights activists[br]were telling me,

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there is no denying that there are[br]many human rights issues

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that disproportionately[br]or uniquely affect men.

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Paternity fraud uniquely affects men.

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The United States Selective Service[br]in the case of a draft

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still uniquely affects men.

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Workplace deaths: disproportionately men.

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War deaths: overwhelmingly men.

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Suicide: overwhelmingly men.

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Sentencing disparity, life expectancy,

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child custody, child support,

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false rape allegations,[br]criminal court bias,

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misandry, failure launched,

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boys falling behind in education,

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homelessness, veterans issues,

0:09:00.430,0:09:03.184
infant male genital mutilation,

0:09:03.184,0:09:05.665
lack of parental choice[br]once a child is conceived,

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lack of resources for male victims[br]of domestic violence,

0:09:09.145,0:09:13.613
so many issues that are heartbreaking,

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if you are the victim

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or you love someone who is the victim[br]unto any one of these issues.

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These are men's issues.

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And most people can't name one

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because they think,

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"Well, men have all their rights;[br]they have all the power and privilege."

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But these issues[br]deserve to be acknowledged.

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They deserve care, attention,

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and motivation for solutions.

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Before making The Red Pill movie,[br]I was a feminist of about ten years,

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and I thought I was well-versed[br]on gender equality issues.

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But it wasn't until I met[br]men's rights activists

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that I finally started[br]to consider the other side

0:09:57.556,0:09:59.523
of the gender equality equation.

0:10:00.578,0:10:03.018
It doesn't mean I agree[br]with all that they've said.

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But I saw the immense value[br]in listening to them

0:10:08.476,0:10:11.477
and trying to see the world[br]through their eyes.

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I thought if I could get my audience[br]to also listen to them,

0:10:17.614,0:10:19.760
it could serve as a rung on the ladder,

0:10:19.760,0:10:21.851
bringing us all up[br]to a higher consciousness

0:10:21.851,0:10:23.139
about gender equality.

0:10:24.839,0:10:27.406
So in October 2016,

0:10:28.286,0:10:29.948
the film was released in theaters,

0:10:29.948,0:10:33.537
and articles and critic reviews[br]started to roll in.

0:10:34.436,0:10:39.737
And that's when I experienced[br]how engaged the media is

0:10:40.437,0:10:43.971
in group think around gender politics.

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And I learned a difficult lesson.

0:10:49.272,0:10:53.730
When you start to humanize your enemy,

0:10:54.680,0:11:00.126
you, in turn, may be dehumanized[br]by your community.

0:11:01.870,0:11:03.975
And that's what happened to me.

0:11:05.895,0:11:10.516
Rather than debating the merit[br]of the issues addressed in the film,

0:11:10.516,0:11:13.726
I became the target of a smear campaign,

0:11:14.876,0:11:19.593
and people who had never seen the movie[br]protested outside the theater doors,

0:11:19.593,0:11:21.486
chanting that it was harmful to women.

0:11:22.516,0:11:24.398
It certainly is not.

0:11:26.038,0:11:28.015
But I understand their mindset.

0:11:29.385,0:11:31.194
If I never made this movie,

0:11:31.194,0:11:33.526
and I heard that there was[br]a documentary screening

0:11:33.526,0:11:36.720
about men's rights activists[br]that didn't show them as monsters,

0:11:37.760,0:11:39.732
I too would have protested the screenings

0:11:39.732,0:11:41.935
or at least sign the petitions[br]to ban the film

0:11:41.935,0:11:44.851
because I was told[br]that they were my enemy.

0:11:45.541,0:11:49.673
I was told that men's rights activists[br]were against women's equality.

0:11:51.002,0:11:55.079
But all the men's rights activists I met[br]support women's rights

0:11:55.789,0:11:58.089
and are simply asking the question:

0:11:58.089,0:12:00.790
"Why doesn't our society[br]care about men's rights?"

0:12:04.742,0:12:08.702
Well, the greatest challenge I faced[br]through this whole process,

0:12:09.392,0:12:12.074
it wasn't the protests against my film,

0:12:12.074,0:12:15.300
and it wasn't how I was treated[br]by the mainstream media -

0:12:15.300,0:12:17.762
even though it got[br]pretty disgusting at times.

0:12:19.372,0:12:21.725
The greatest challenge I faced

0:12:22.535,0:12:26.862
was peeling back the layers[br]of my own bias.

0:12:28.913,0:12:32.160
It turns out I did meet[br]my enemy while filming.

0:12:33.633,0:12:37.080
It was my ego saying that I was right,

0:12:37.860,0:12:39.780
and they were subhuman.

0:12:44.389,0:12:49.088
It's no secret now that I no longer[br]call myself a feminist,

0:12:49.733,0:12:54.547
but I must clarify I am not anti-feminist,

0:12:55.107,0:12:57.540
and I am not a men's rights activist.

0:12:57.990,0:13:00.184
I still support women's rights,

0:13:00.824,0:13:03.021
and I now care about men's rights as well.

0:13:04.021,0:13:05.240
However,

0:13:06.280,0:13:10.650
I believe if we want[br]to honestly discuss gender equality,

0:13:10.650,0:13:13.239
we need to invite all voices to the table.

0:13:14.442,0:13:16.758
Yet, this is not what is happening.

0:13:16.758,0:13:19.015
Men's groups are continually vilified,

0:13:19.015,0:13:21.204
falsely referred to as hate groups,

0:13:21.894,0:13:24.244
and their voices[br]are systematically silenced.

0:13:25.384,0:13:27.992
Do I think either movement[br]has all the answers?

0:13:27.992,0:13:29.059
No.

0:13:29.059,0:13:32.426
Men's rights activists[br]are not without flaws,

0:13:32.426,0:13:34.166
neither are feminists.

0:13:35.166,0:13:38.071
But if one group is being silenced,

0:13:38.461,0:13:40.498
that's a problem for all of us.

0:13:42.408,0:13:46.336
If I could give advice to anyone[br]in our society at large,

0:13:47.055,0:13:50.998
we have to stop expecting to be offended,

0:13:51.844,0:13:57.165
and we have to start truly,[br]openly, and sincerely listening.

0:13:58.145,0:14:00.379
That would lead[br]to a greater understanding

0:14:00.379,0:14:01.921
of ourselves and others,

0:14:02.691,0:14:04.659
having compassion for one another,

0:14:05.469,0:14:07.690
working together towards solutions

0:14:07.690,0:14:09.813
because we all are in this together.

0:14:11.183,0:14:15.693
And once we do that,[br]we can finally heal from the inside out.

0:14:17.038,0:14:19.692
But it has to start with listening.

0:14:20.702,0:14:22.426
Thank you for listening.

0:14:22.426,0:14:25.352
(Applause)

0:14:28.318,0:14:30.903
(Cheering)