1 00:00:16,900 --> 00:00:19,300 MANIK JUNEJA: So, let's get started. Hi. 2 00:00:19,320 --> 00:00:23,050 My name is Manik, and I'm the founder of Vinsol, 3 00:00:23,050 --> 00:00:26,090 which is a Rails development firm based out 4 00:00:26,090 --> 00:00:28,750 of Delhi, India. And we also do iOS and 5 00:00:28,750 --> 00:00:32,870 Android consultancy. It's a thirteen-year-old firm, 6 00:00:32,870 --> 00:00:36,360 and we have around sixty-plus developers now. 7 00:00:36,360 --> 00:00:39,360 So, I was going to ask this question so 8 00:00:39,360 --> 00:00:41,110 that I could set some context of the talk, 9 00:00:41,110 --> 00:00:43,690 but since I already I think know all of 10 00:00:43,690 --> 00:00:49,320 you, I'll skip these three slides which I have. 11 00:00:49,320 --> 00:00:51,490 So I was gonna ask if there are solopreneurs 12 00:00:51,490 --> 00:00:55,220 or freelance programmers here, or if people belong to 13 00:00:55,220 --> 00:00:58,500 companies with two to five developers, or, are there 14 00:00:58,500 --> 00:01:00,850 product people here. So I would have kind of 15 00:01:00,850 --> 00:01:03,510 changed the direction of my talk accordingly. 16 00:01:03,510 --> 00:01:07,150 OK. So, in my talk, like, it's basically in 17 00:01:07,150 --> 00:01:09,310 three parts. In the first part, I'm going to 18 00:01:09,310 --> 00:01:13,280 quickly tell about myself, so, about my background. Then 19 00:01:13,280 --> 00:01:17,560 I'll be talking about Vinsol, its history, the philosophy 20 00:01:17,560 --> 00:01:20,729 behind its existence, the growth part we have and 21 00:01:20,729 --> 00:01:23,159 why it exists. So those two things would kind 22 00:01:23,159 --> 00:01:25,289 of set the context for the third part, just 23 00:01:25,289 --> 00:01:27,479 like, why, why, why it matters to you, what 24 00:01:27,479 --> 00:01:30,700 value can we provide you? 25 00:01:30,700 --> 00:01:35,130 So, I am an electrical engineer. I learned Basic, 26 00:01:35,130 --> 00:01:37,600 Pascal and C at school. I never realized I 27 00:01:37,600 --> 00:01:40,060 was professionally going to be programming at that point 28 00:01:40,060 --> 00:01:43,189 of time, but I enjoyed working on those languages. 29 00:01:43,189 --> 00:01:46,719 The instant gratification that it brings you, like, you 30 00:01:46,719 --> 00:01:49,139 type something, even if it's like print A plus 31 00:01:49,139 --> 00:01:51,420 B and you get to see it on the 32 00:01:51,420 --> 00:01:54,950 screen, that's kind of intellectually satisfying at some level. 33 00:01:54,950 --> 00:02:00,039 So, then after my electrical engineering, I got placed 34 00:02:00,039 --> 00:02:03,679 in campus. That's the term we use for, like, 35 00:02:03,679 --> 00:02:07,369 college placement in India. And I got selected in 36 00:02:07,369 --> 00:02:11,610 a huge Indian outsourcing firm with maybe fifteen thousand 37 00:02:11,610 --> 00:02:16,480 developers. I was chosen to work on a Y2K 38 00:02:16,480 --> 00:02:18,010 project, which was like the year 2000 problem, where 39 00:02:18,010 --> 00:02:20,420 you're going to, and there's millions of lines of 40 00:02:20,420 --> 00:02:23,920 Cobal code. You go to where year is represented 41 00:02:23,920 --> 00:02:26,320 as YY and you replace it by YYYY, and 42 00:02:26,320 --> 00:02:27,830 you're done. 43 00:02:27,830 --> 00:02:32,410 So that, that was so intellectually stimulating and satisfying. 44 00:02:32,410 --> 00:02:35,110 So I quit that job and I started learning 45 00:02:35,110 --> 00:02:38,440 Java. James Cosling had just released Java, maybe six 46 00:02:38,440 --> 00:02:42,780 months before that time. So, I picked up Java, 47 00:02:42,780 --> 00:02:47,830 changed, switched jobs, joined another huge Indian outsourcing firm, 48 00:02:47,830 --> 00:02:52,110 and I was, I landed in Tokyo working for 49 00:02:52,110 --> 00:02:53,980 a internet startup there which was in the internet 50 00:02:53,980 --> 00:02:56,090 e-commerce space. 51 00:02:56,090 --> 00:03:01,040 So. There, I met this guy who was, like, 52 00:03:01,040 --> 00:03:06,140 the senior Japanese developer. A really very good developer. 53 00:03:06,140 --> 00:03:09,870 Whatever I learned during my career, like, those initial 54 00:03:09,870 --> 00:03:12,120 years of my career, I learned from him. Like, 55 00:03:12,120 --> 00:03:15,820 he's kind of my guru. But, like, the two 56 00:03:15,820 --> 00:03:17,900 of us was, were working on this team in 57 00:03:17,900 --> 00:03:20,790 Tokyo. We had a six person team back in 58 00:03:20,790 --> 00:03:23,350 India. But what we found was that the two 59 00:03:23,350 --> 00:03:25,600 of us were producing much more. We were much 60 00:03:25,600 --> 00:03:28,470 more productive and the quality of our output was 61 00:03:28,470 --> 00:03:31,810 much higher than what we were getting from our 62 00:03:31,810 --> 00:03:33,180 off-shore development team. 63 00:03:33,180 --> 00:03:35,620 So that, that set me thinking, in fact, I 64 00:03:35,620 --> 00:03:37,870 vividly remember what happened when we had our first 65 00:03:37,870 --> 00:03:40,360 code drop from the Indian team. I was working 66 00:03:40,360 --> 00:03:42,890 on my machine, and I see this guy who 67 00:03:42,890 --> 00:03:45,380 I just call my guru. He was like, Batano-san 68 00:03:45,380 --> 00:03:47,400 was sitting like this, and I, I was like, 69 00:03:47,400 --> 00:03:50,190 what happened? He said, Manik-san, just look at this 70 00:03:50,190 --> 00:03:52,360 code. I was like, what's wrong with it? He 71 00:03:52,360 --> 00:03:54,050 said, just come here and take a look and, 72 00:03:54,050 --> 00:03:58,210 it was my first kind of introduction to what, 73 00:03:58,210 --> 00:04:00,450 really, spaghetti code is like. Just like, just look 74 00:04:00,450 --> 00:04:02,650 at it. I can make no head or tail 75 00:04:02,650 --> 00:04:04,550 out of this, where it starts and what method 76 00:04:04,550 --> 00:04:06,590 is called and where I go and what, what 77 00:04:06,590 --> 00:04:09,319 this is totally non-modular. This is the perfect example 78 00:04:09,319 --> 00:04:12,569 of what we can call spaghetti code. So I 79 00:04:12,569 --> 00:04:16,660 realized, OK. But, I mean, subconsciously, somewhere, I felt 80 00:04:16,660 --> 00:04:19,889 humiliated, because these were like people from my country. 81 00:04:19,889 --> 00:04:23,100 Some even many years senior than me, and this 82 00:04:23,100 --> 00:04:24,940 is what they delivered, that I'm sitting with the 83 00:04:24,940 --> 00:04:28,070 guy who has kind of taught me a lot, 84 00:04:28,070 --> 00:04:31,730 and he's like sitting like this, so. Maybe subconsciously, 85 00:04:31,730 --> 00:04:34,710 I was not, maybe, entrepreneur yet, but maybe somewhere 86 00:04:34,710 --> 00:04:38,770 that incident, you know, planted that seed in me 87 00:04:38,770 --> 00:04:40,530 that, I need to change this. I need to 88 00:04:40,530 --> 00:04:41,940 do something about this. 89 00:04:41,940 --> 00:04:45,210 Also, while I was in Japan, I had my 90 00:04:45,210 --> 00:04:49,570 first experience with Ruby. We, we, we were mostly 91 00:04:49,570 --> 00:04:52,070 working on Java, Cobra, Oracle - all that enterprise-y 92 00:04:52,070 --> 00:04:55,310 stuff. But we were using Ruby on the side. 93 00:04:55,310 --> 00:04:57,070 And it was a new language at that point 94 00:04:57,070 --> 00:04:59,070 of time. Even in Japan, not a lot of 95 00:04:59,070 --> 00:05:00,850 people knew about it. But we were using it 96 00:05:00,850 --> 00:05:04,720 for creating some utility scripts, where, part, part of 97 00:05:04,720 --> 00:05:06,150 it we were doing in Perl and some of 98 00:05:06,150 --> 00:05:08,470 it we were doing with Ruby. So, that was 99 00:05:08,470 --> 00:05:10,930 my first brush with Ruby. 100 00:05:10,930 --> 00:05:14,210 And then in the year 2000, I was getting 101 00:05:14,210 --> 00:05:16,520 married, so I talked to my fiancé and we 102 00:05:16,520 --> 00:05:18,510 had this discussion, whether we wanted to live in 103 00:05:18,510 --> 00:05:20,740 Tokyo or live in Delhi, and we chose Delhi, 104 00:05:20,740 --> 00:05:23,120 so I returned back to Delhi. And that is 105 00:05:23,120 --> 00:05:26,280 when I actually founded Vinsol. This was September of 106 00:05:26,280 --> 00:05:29,790 2000. With two developers, one of my colleagues, one 107 00:05:29,790 --> 00:05:32,180 of my college mates joined me, and both of 108 00:05:32,180 --> 00:05:34,150 us started this company. 109 00:05:34,150 --> 00:05:37,990 We had this one Japanese client. It's, it's very 110 00:05:37,990 --> 00:05:39,889 easy actually to start a company if you have 111 00:05:39,889 --> 00:05:42,900 a paying client already existing. So that was, that 112 00:05:42,900 --> 00:05:46,169 was good for us, very fortunate for us. We're 113 00:05:46,169 --> 00:05:49,520 still working on Java, Cobra, Oracle. Whatever little open 114 00:05:49,520 --> 00:05:53,960 source interaction I had had worked with this Ruby 115 00:05:53,960 --> 00:05:58,400 script, which we did, but then due to financial 116 00:05:58,400 --> 00:06:01,520 reasons we decided to move from Oracle to PostGres. 117 00:06:01,520 --> 00:06:03,560 That was really when I saw, like, we'd been 118 00:06:03,560 --> 00:06:07,490 spending millions of yen on, on yen, yens? Yen? 119 00:06:07,490 --> 00:06:10,290 Millions of yen on, you know, the licensing fee 120 00:06:10,290 --> 00:06:13,180 for Oracle. But here we have a fully open 121 00:06:13,180 --> 00:06:16,630 source free database available, which can almost do as 122 00:06:16,630 --> 00:06:19,020 much as - even sometimes, in some cases, more 123 00:06:19,020 --> 00:06:21,199 than what Oracle could do. So that, that was 124 00:06:21,199 --> 00:06:23,980 like kind of my first major interaction to open 125 00:06:23,980 --> 00:06:26,470 source software. So we decided to continue to work 126 00:06:26,470 --> 00:06:27,970 out of the basement of my house for a 127 00:06:27,970 --> 00:06:32,080 couple more years.We would just kind of, you know, 128 00:06:32,080 --> 00:06:33,760 focusing on that single project. 129 00:06:33,760 --> 00:06:36,090 But then we started getting some time available, and 130 00:06:36,090 --> 00:06:40,020 we thought, let's hire some people. So, we hired 131 00:06:40,020 --> 00:06:41,610 a few people and we thought we'd get more 132 00:06:41,610 --> 00:06:44,250 Java projects, but the irony was that, you know, 133 00:06:44,250 --> 00:06:46,760 there are no Java projects for two people team. 134 00:06:46,760 --> 00:06:49,240 Java needs at least ten, twenty, thirty people. You 135 00:06:49,240 --> 00:06:51,250 can't do anything meaningful, like, not a project. Like, 136 00:06:51,250 --> 00:06:53,380 you can be a consultant, but to, to do 137 00:06:53,380 --> 00:06:57,810 a full project, you, you need ten people maybe 138 00:06:57,810 --> 00:07:01,830 minimum. So, that kind of forced us into the 139 00:07:01,830 --> 00:07:04,600 direction of moving towards PHP, which is like on 140 00:07:04,600 --> 00:07:07,449 the string Facebook was launched, and kind of picking, 141 00:07:07,449 --> 00:07:09,410 it was built on PHP, so a lot of 142 00:07:09,410 --> 00:07:12,470 people started asking for PHP projects. 143 00:07:12,470 --> 00:07:14,669 And we looked at these two really good pieces 144 00:07:14,669 --> 00:07:18,260 of software that were available then, Drupal and Wordpress. 145 00:07:18,260 --> 00:07:20,050 And that was where I got more involved in 146 00:07:20,050 --> 00:07:23,540 open source, because we built some custom Drupal modules 147 00:07:23,540 --> 00:07:27,780 and extensions, Wordpress modules, Wordpress extensions, and we were 148 00:07:27,780 --> 00:07:30,530 one of those first companies in that, at that 149 00:07:30,530 --> 00:07:34,120 time to launch what was a AJAX-based module for 150 00:07:34,120 --> 00:07:36,830 Drupal, which was like, we were happy. We were 151 00:07:36,830 --> 00:07:39,460 doing something. We were not making a lot of 152 00:07:39,460 --> 00:07:41,790 money, but it was enough to pay the bills, 153 00:07:41,790 --> 00:07:44,949 and we were able to sustain a six-people team. 154 00:07:44,949 --> 00:07:48,300 But then it was like almost 2005, and I 155 00:07:48,300 --> 00:07:50,680 came across an article on Ruby on Rails in 156 00:07:50,680 --> 00:07:53,410 an online magazine, and I was blown away. Wow, 157 00:07:53,410 --> 00:07:55,419 this is so cool. This is so productive. I 158 00:07:55,419 --> 00:07:57,870 can do so much more in, in Rails in 159 00:07:57,870 --> 00:08:00,000 a couple of hours than what, you know, I 160 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:02,930 could take days to do in PHP or Java. 161 00:08:02,930 --> 00:08:05,479 And that was like really when I got hooked 162 00:08:05,479 --> 00:08:08,120 onto Rails. And then the tipping point was this 163 00:08:08,120 --> 00:08:12,009 2006 barcamp. How many of you know about, what 164 00:08:12,009 --> 00:08:14,050 barcamps are? 165 00:08:14,050 --> 00:08:16,090 They're not popular these days now, but like, from 166 00:08:16,090 --> 00:08:18,800 2006 to 2009, around that time, they were very 167 00:08:18,800 --> 00:08:22,430 popular. There are these two computer science or programming 168 00:08:22,430 --> 00:08:25,540 variables that we always use, foo and bar. So, 169 00:08:25,540 --> 00:08:28,790 in, in this context, they are not just names 170 00:08:28,790 --> 00:08:32,570 but they are acronyms. So foo was, foocamp was 171 00:08:32,570 --> 00:08:36,099 a conference organized by O'Reilly. It was called Friends 172 00:08:36,099 --> 00:08:40,240 of O'Reilly. F-O-O. So they called it the foocamp. 173 00:08:40,240 --> 00:08:43,299 And it was like the elitist group of people 174 00:08:43,299 --> 00:08:45,710 who'd come to get there by invitation only, of 175 00:08:45,710 --> 00:08:49,290 O'Reilly. And a few people who did not get 176 00:08:49,290 --> 00:08:51,430 invited really felt bad about it, and they wanted 177 00:08:51,430 --> 00:08:53,430 to do something about it, so they started this 178 00:08:53,430 --> 00:08:56,560 thing called bar. So there's foo and there's bar, 179 00:08:56,560 --> 00:08:59,070 and bar has a, is again an acronym. It 180 00:08:59,070 --> 00:09:02,080 stood for Bay Area Rejects. So everybody who was 181 00:09:02,080 --> 00:09:05,210 rejected and not a part of foocamp was, was 182 00:09:05,210 --> 00:09:09,070 now invited or, like, it was a, event, they 183 00:09:09,070 --> 00:09:11,860 called it the unconference. The only condition you had 184 00:09:11,860 --> 00:09:14,170 to be able to attend it was that you 185 00:09:14,170 --> 00:09:16,890 have to present something or help in the organization. 186 00:09:16,890 --> 00:09:18,930 You can't just go and be there. 187 00:09:18,930 --> 00:09:21,450 You had to either present or help organize it. 188 00:09:21,450 --> 00:09:24,210 So it was an unconference. We had a first 189 00:09:24,210 --> 00:09:27,450 one of these in Delhi in 2006. Jonathan Butal, 190 00:09:27,450 --> 00:09:29,700 who is the founder of Slide Share was there, 191 00:09:29,700 --> 00:09:31,310 their company also used to do a little bit 192 00:09:31,310 --> 00:09:34,390 of, you know, Flash Ruby kind of work. SlideShare 193 00:09:34,390 --> 00:09:37,040 was flash-based when it started. Now it's moved completely 194 00:09:37,040 --> 00:09:39,529 to html5, I think. 195 00:09:39,529 --> 00:09:42,500 So, Jonathan and I got together, and we thought, 196 00:09:42,500 --> 00:09:45,210 like, there's no tech community in Delhi. We have 197 00:09:45,210 --> 00:09:47,210 to do something about it. They have, they have 198 00:09:47,210 --> 00:09:48,960 a Delhi office and Jonathan was in Delhi at 199 00:09:48,960 --> 00:09:51,060 that point of time. So we, we organized this 200 00:09:51,060 --> 00:09:53,589 barcamp. And I made a presentation on Ruby on 201 00:09:53,589 --> 00:09:57,310 Rails. 90% of the audience had not heard about 202 00:09:57,310 --> 00:09:59,210 Ruby on Rails. They just didn't know what Ruby 203 00:09:59,210 --> 00:10:00,990 on Rails was, which was good for us. The 204 00:10:00,990 --> 00:10:03,230 presentation was like, it, it, it, there was a 205 00:10:03,230 --> 00:10:05,610 time when everybody who did an introduction to Ruby 206 00:10:05,610 --> 00:10:08,320 on Rails presentation, the title used to be, Build 207 00:10:08,320 --> 00:10:10,459 Your Blog in Fifteen Minutes. So I did the 208 00:10:10,459 --> 00:10:14,100 same thing. It took me thirty, however. So, I 209 00:10:14,100 --> 00:10:17,350 build that blog, did a live demo, and you 210 00:10:17,350 --> 00:10:20,880 know. It was org- it was organized at Adobe. 211 00:10:20,880 --> 00:10:22,640 So they gave us their auditorium and we could 212 00:10:22,640 --> 00:10:24,649 use it, about a hundred people attended, and the 213 00:10:24,649 --> 00:10:25,930 presentation went wild. 214 00:10:25,930 --> 00:10:29,100 And it was like, cool. So we had more 215 00:10:29,100 --> 00:10:31,490 work than we could handle. A lot of people 216 00:10:31,490 --> 00:10:34,170 saw this presentation, and they read about Ruby on 217 00:10:34,170 --> 00:10:37,890 Rails, read about DHH, saw what 37Signals was doing, 218 00:10:37,890 --> 00:10:40,300 saw BaseCamp and they were like, OK. Our product, 219 00:10:40,300 --> 00:10:41,630 also, we want to get built in Ruby on 220 00:10:41,630 --> 00:10:44,680 Rails. And we started getting a lot of inbound 221 00:10:44,680 --> 00:10:47,160 leads. And the six of us, at that point 222 00:10:47,160 --> 00:10:50,029 of time, were like kind of swamped. 223 00:10:50,029 --> 00:10:52,670 And so we also made decent money on the 224 00:10:52,670 --> 00:10:54,270 side so that I could afford to go to 225 00:10:54,270 --> 00:10:58,490 the RailsConf in Europe in 2006. So that's me, 226 00:10:58,490 --> 00:11:02,980 DHH, and Marcel Melina Jr., who what, used to, 227 00:11:02,980 --> 00:11:05,010 I think, work for 27Signals. But one of the 228 00:11:05,010 --> 00:11:09,180 original guys who worked with DHH and released Rails. 229 00:11:09,180 --> 00:11:11,860 Now I think he works for Twitter. 230 00:11:11,860 --> 00:11:15,500 So, the biggest thing there wasn't like, I had 231 00:11:15,500 --> 00:11:18,810 my interactions with open source software. I had my 232 00:11:18,810 --> 00:11:22,930 interactions with contributing to open source software, not just 233 00:11:22,930 --> 00:11:25,080 consuming it. Not just using it, like those small 234 00:11:25,080 --> 00:11:28,370 Wordpress plugins and Drupal modules. I had done all 235 00:11:28,370 --> 00:11:31,180 of that. But what really as huge, when I 236 00:11:31,180 --> 00:11:33,660 was there at the conference was the community. I 237 00:11:33,660 --> 00:11:37,690 got to rub shoulders with DHH, Marcel Melina, James, 238 00:11:37,690 --> 00:11:41,760 Jim Weirich, Dave Thomas, David Black. All these guys 239 00:11:41,760 --> 00:11:43,730 were, where there, and I was like wow. This 240 00:11:43,730 --> 00:11:46,959 is so cool. ANd it was like that, that 241 00:11:46,959 --> 00:11:49,550 whole aura of being there with so many great 242 00:11:49,550 --> 00:11:52,540 developers, people a thousand times smarter than you, you 243 00:11:52,540 --> 00:11:54,800 get to learn so much. 244 00:11:54,800 --> 00:11:56,730 And that, once again set me thinking to, how 245 00:11:56,730 --> 00:11:58,660 can I take some of this back home and 246 00:11:58,660 --> 00:12:01,180 apply it? We, we had just kind of with 247 00:12:01,180 --> 00:12:03,339 that back home and started a small community, but 248 00:12:03,339 --> 00:12:06,240 how could we grow it into something bigger? How 249 00:12:06,240 --> 00:12:10,510 could we really start producing more better software back 250 00:12:10,510 --> 00:12:14,769 in Delhi? So, what that lead to was, like, 251 00:12:14,769 --> 00:12:18,589 I released my first RubyGem. We called it VPayPal. 252 00:12:18,589 --> 00:12:21,410 V was for Vinsol. So it was called VPayPal. 253 00:12:21,410 --> 00:12:24,740 It was a kind of a Ruby wrapper around 254 00:12:24,740 --> 00:12:31,060 the PayPal website payments pro library, a wrapper around 255 00:12:31,060 --> 00:12:35,769 PayPal website pro functionality that PayPal provides. So that 256 00:12:35,769 --> 00:12:37,839 was my first gem. 257 00:12:37,839 --> 00:12:40,269 And then what I also did was encouraged a 258 00:12:40,269 --> 00:12:43,850 lot of our developers to do, you know, to 259 00:12:43,850 --> 00:12:46,760 contribute to open source software, to really play a 260 00:12:46,760 --> 00:12:49,070 role in that community, which I had experienced when 261 00:12:49,070 --> 00:12:52,260 I went for that European RailsConf. And the name 262 00:12:52,260 --> 00:12:55,560 that's mentioned there, number one is Sur Max. He 263 00:12:55,560 --> 00:12:57,740 is a developer that used to work for us. 264 00:12:57,740 --> 00:12:59,060 And if you look at two and three, they 265 00:12:59,060 --> 00:13:01,250 are at, at some point of time, they were 266 00:13:01,250 --> 00:13:06,790 Rails core contributors. And this guy submitted 2162 patches, 267 00:13:06,790 --> 00:13:10,990 which were accepted into Rails core in a month. 268 00:13:10,990 --> 00:13:13,779 That means seventy patches a day. On average. 269 00:13:13,779 --> 00:13:16,700 So, and he won the, this HackFest was organized 270 00:13:16,700 --> 00:13:19,850 by a site called Working with Rails dot com, 271 00:13:19,850 --> 00:13:22,600 which was like very popular at some point of 272 00:13:22,600 --> 00:13:29,050 time. So, so that's something, like, being there with 273 00:13:29,050 --> 00:13:31,980 the community and then contributing and encoring other people 274 00:13:31,980 --> 00:13:35,779 in our company to contribute finally, we got some 275 00:13:35,779 --> 00:13:37,800 recognition, which we were really proud of at that 276 00:13:37,800 --> 00:13:39,170 point of time. We still are. 277 00:13:39,170 --> 00:13:41,790 Like, this was, if, if you look at this, 278 00:13:41,790 --> 00:13:45,620 this is from Obi, Obi Fernandez, the founder of 279 00:13:45,620 --> 00:13:50,070 Hash Rocket. He gave a presentation at RubyFringe 2008, 280 00:13:50,070 --> 00:13:54,190 where this was a slide which showed the competitive 281 00:13:54,190 --> 00:13:57,279 landscape in Rails development firms today, and we were 282 00:13:57,279 --> 00:13:59,660 so happy to see Vinsol right there on the 283 00:13:59,660 --> 00:14:02,670 left corner, bottom corner. We were elated. We were 284 00:14:02,670 --> 00:14:05,399 like wow, are we in this league? So it 285 00:14:05,399 --> 00:14:09,380 was great, like. We were mentioned with ThoughtWorks, HashRocket, 286 00:14:09,380 --> 00:14:13,079 PivotalLabs. These were like, companies we used to look 287 00:14:13,079 --> 00:14:15,500 up to. Can we be like them someday? But 288 00:14:15,500 --> 00:14:18,850 here, like, a guy picks, picks us. And not 289 00:14:18,850 --> 00:14:21,500 any ordinary guy. He's the founder of Hash Rocket, 290 00:14:21,500 --> 00:14:24,630 who feels like Vinsol is a competitor to them. 291 00:14:24,630 --> 00:14:27,709 We were like, yeah. We are doing something. We 292 00:14:27,709 --> 00:14:29,000 were happy. 293 00:14:29,000 --> 00:14:32,209 So. But. Doing all this, like, we had not 294 00:14:32,209 --> 00:14:36,820 spent a single dollar in marketing. The, the only 295 00:14:36,820 --> 00:14:40,360 way we had done all this was blogging, open 296 00:14:40,360 --> 00:14:45,620 source contribution, and regularly attending the RailsConf. So, just 297 00:14:45,620 --> 00:14:48,130 doing all this, we, we came from, like, kind 298 00:14:48,130 --> 00:14:51,810 of nobody, dabbling with Java, PHP, from a basement, 299 00:14:51,810 --> 00:14:54,670 to having a proper office, to help people by 300 00:14:54,670 --> 00:14:57,320 that time. And being counted as one of the 301 00:14:57,320 --> 00:15:01,140 companies in Ruby on Rails services that matters. People 302 00:15:01,140 --> 00:15:03,260 look at us as competition. 303 00:15:03,260 --> 00:15:05,269 And the good thing was, not Indian companies, but 304 00:15:05,269 --> 00:15:09,730 companies in U.S. HashRocket has their headquarters in Florida. 305 00:15:09,730 --> 00:15:11,810 So a company in Florida thinks of us their 306 00:15:11,810 --> 00:15:14,440 competition. Which was good. OK. We've done something. It 307 00:15:14,440 --> 00:15:15,290 felt good. 308 00:15:15,290 --> 00:15:18,279 So, today we are sixty people in three offices 309 00:15:18,279 --> 00:15:21,709 in Delhi. But this'll continue to kind of try 310 00:15:21,709 --> 00:15:24,600 and build that culture and sustain that company culture 311 00:15:24,600 --> 00:15:27,120 that we had set up. So we, we built 312 00:15:27,120 --> 00:15:30,480 our own training tool called VTApp, which has these 313 00:15:30,480 --> 00:15:34,839 tracks, which are owned by the experienced developers. They 314 00:15:34,839 --> 00:15:38,750 curate these tracks. They ensure that they remain updated, 315 00:15:38,750 --> 00:15:40,910 and they also review code by any- anybody who 316 00:15:40,910 --> 00:15:43,360 joins Vinsol has to go through this, do a 317 00:15:43,360 --> 00:15:46,430 six months training on the job, paid training. And 318 00:15:46,430 --> 00:15:49,079 finish all these before had can be ready for 319 00:15:49,079 --> 00:15:53,019 an internal project. After successfully doing that, he's ready 320 00:15:53,019 --> 00:15:54,420 for a client project. 321 00:15:54,420 --> 00:15:56,100 So we, we just didn't want to be like 322 00:15:56,100 --> 00:15:58,339 that, that experience that I had which I mentioned 323 00:15:58,339 --> 00:16:03,079 being in that office with, with this great Japanese 324 00:16:03,079 --> 00:16:07,000 developer, Bakano-san, and he's sitting like this. Really kind 325 00:16:07,000 --> 00:16:09,050 of had that impact on me that I, I 326 00:16:09,050 --> 00:16:11,389 thought like, we have to create something that is 327 00:16:11,389 --> 00:16:14,899 very different. not this huge, twenty-thousand people working in 328 00:16:14,899 --> 00:16:19,130 an office, nine to five developers not really happy 329 00:16:19,130 --> 00:16:21,750 about what they are doing. Maybe code monkeys, if 330 00:16:21,750 --> 00:16:23,360 I may use that term. No. We were going 331 00:16:23,360 --> 00:16:25,690 to create a different company. We were trying to 332 00:16:25,690 --> 00:16:27,040 do something else. 333 00:16:27,040 --> 00:16:30,430 So, gradually, like, all these tools came into existence, 334 00:16:30,430 --> 00:16:32,779 which kind of lead to us, lead us to 335 00:16:32,779 --> 00:16:34,600 where we are today. Even, like, this is a 336 00:16:34,600 --> 00:16:37,860 guy who's just joined our company, and we, we 337 00:16:37,860 --> 00:16:42,180 kind of in, encourage them to still continue to 338 00:16:42,180 --> 00:16:44,649 contribute to Rails core. This is as recent as 339 00:16:44,649 --> 00:16:47,389 three days ago. The last commit. Even if it's 340 00:16:47,389 --> 00:16:50,490 a typo. Even if it's a documentation thing. We 341 00:16:50,490 --> 00:16:52,829 encourage people to go and, after you've finished your 342 00:16:52,829 --> 00:16:55,670 training, read through the Rails code and do a 343 00:16:55,670 --> 00:16:57,790 commit. If you find something wrong in Rails, even 344 00:16:57,790 --> 00:17:00,110 if it's a typo, don't worry. Don't hesitate. Go 345 00:17:00,110 --> 00:17:02,620 and, you know, send a pull request. 346 00:17:02,620 --> 00:17:06,148 So we, we have like these, very, very new 347 00:17:06,148 --> 00:17:08,689 just have started developing kind of guys who are 348 00:17:08,689 --> 00:17:12,919 making these commits. This is Thursday morning, and it, 349 00:17:12,919 --> 00:17:17,049 it's just a, a fix in the comment like, 350 00:17:17,049 --> 00:17:19,089 the comment shouldn't be this. It should be something 351 00:17:19,089 --> 00:17:23,459 else. So we, we kind of have made it 352 00:17:23,459 --> 00:17:23,750 mandatory. 353 00:17:23,750 --> 00:17:26,089 The good thing is that out of sixty people 354 00:17:26,089 --> 00:17:29,250 that I have mentioned, thirty, around thirty are Rails 355 00:17:29,250 --> 00:17:31,900 code contributors. Whatever be the patch. But they've taken 356 00:17:31,900 --> 00:17:34,940 the pains to go through the Rails internals and 357 00:17:34,940 --> 00:17:38,049 submit something. Submit what, whatever it might be. Doesn't 358 00:17:38,049 --> 00:17:39,450 really matter. 359 00:17:39,450 --> 00:17:42,210 OK. So that was a little bit about the 360 00:17:42,210 --> 00:17:45,020 history. About my background. So I'll quickly, like, talk 361 00:17:45,020 --> 00:17:47,280 about some of the clients and verticals we work 362 00:17:47,280 --> 00:17:48,590 in. One of the verticals in which we do 363 00:17:48,590 --> 00:17:52,950 a lot of work is in e-commerce. Maybe because 364 00:17:52,950 --> 00:17:56,280 I released that VPayPal gem, people thought that I 365 00:17:56,280 --> 00:17:58,720 knew a lot about e-commerce, so we just got 366 00:17:58,720 --> 00:18:02,080 a lot of e-commerce projects. So, some of the 367 00:18:02,080 --> 00:18:04,650 recent and kind of more prominent work that we've 368 00:18:04,650 --> 00:18:08,030 done is, we were working on Ideeli, which is 369 00:18:08,030 --> 00:18:11,620 a flash sale site, head quarter in New York. 370 00:18:11,620 --> 00:18:14,710 This was recently acquired by Groupon. So we, we, 371 00:18:14,710 --> 00:18:17,200 we were the development team which was working on 372 00:18:17,200 --> 00:18:17,990 this project. 373 00:18:17,990 --> 00:18:20,480 There were other people as well, but we were 374 00:18:20,480 --> 00:18:24,770 the core development team. I met the CTO of 375 00:18:24,770 --> 00:18:27,770 Ideeli in the RailsConf three years ago, and since 376 00:18:27,770 --> 00:18:30,020 then we've been working together. So I said, like, 377 00:18:30,020 --> 00:18:33,070 no marketing other than just being here and meeting 378 00:18:33,070 --> 00:18:34,470 people. 379 00:18:34,470 --> 00:18:39,290 Dealdey, this is very interesting. This, this site was, 380 00:18:39,290 --> 00:18:41,410 started as a Groupon clone, but really did well. 381 00:18:41,410 --> 00:18:45,130 It is now funded by Kinovich Ventures of Sweden. 382 00:18:45,130 --> 00:18:49,010 And the guy who started this is, the Forbes 383 00:18:49,010 --> 00:18:52,710 magazine recently wrote an article on the ten more 384 00:18:52,710 --> 00:18:56,169 influential or powerful men in Africa, and Sim, who's 385 00:18:56,169 --> 00:18:59,200 a Harvard educated guy from Nigeria, but wanted to 386 00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:02,360 do something for Nigeria, went back and started this 387 00:19:02,360 --> 00:19:06,610 site Dealdey. He was mentioned in Forbes. And then 388 00:19:06,610 --> 00:19:09,500 he has another venture, which even did better than 389 00:19:09,500 --> 00:19:12,110 - like, doing Dealdey, he saw like, this, this 390 00:19:12,110 --> 00:19:14,820 huge vacuum. A lot of deal sites exist, but 391 00:19:14,820 --> 00:19:17,990 there is no really good reliable e-commerce, basic e-commerce 392 00:19:17,990 --> 00:19:19,950 site where you could just order something and get 393 00:19:19,950 --> 00:19:23,140 it in Nigeria, so he had this idea, and 394 00:19:23,140 --> 00:19:26,340 we built Konga dot com for him, which is 395 00:19:26,340 --> 00:19:30,429 now a MIH invested firm. It's a MIH portfolio 396 00:19:30,429 --> 00:19:35,710 company, MIH Ventures of South Africa. 397 00:19:35,710 --> 00:19:37,429 The really good thing about this project, which I 398 00:19:37,429 --> 00:19:40,140 am proud of, is, like, we built this in 399 00:19:40,140 --> 00:19:43,610 two months. We took Scree as the platform, and 400 00:19:43,610 --> 00:19:45,049 then we had to add a bunch of features, 401 00:19:45,049 --> 00:19:49,250 which were very specific to Nigeria. Like, they needed 402 00:19:49,250 --> 00:19:51,240 a wallet. But Spree does not - are you 403 00:19:51,240 --> 00:19:54,960 aware of Spree? Has anybody? No. So Spree is 404 00:19:54,960 --> 00:19:58,690 an open source Ruby on Rails e-commerce application that's 405 00:19:58,690 --> 00:20:01,320 available. So you could just take that. But it 406 00:20:01,320 --> 00:20:04,200 is very limited. Like, the core functionality is very 407 00:20:04,200 --> 00:20:06,490 limited. But you would, again, add extensions and get 408 00:20:06,490 --> 00:20:07,770 a lot more done. 409 00:20:07,770 --> 00:20:11,020 So, Vinsol actually, not only did we work on 410 00:20:11,020 --> 00:20:14,200 Konga and enable all the features that they needed, 411 00:20:14,200 --> 00:20:16,120 but we took the time to extract them and 412 00:20:16,120 --> 00:20:18,620 make them available as extensions to anybody who wants 413 00:20:18,620 --> 00:20:20,580 to use them. So if you go to SpreeCommerce 414 00:20:20,580 --> 00:20:22,950 dot com slash extensions, you can find all these 415 00:20:22,950 --> 00:20:25,960 extensions by Vinsol which are listed here. So we 416 00:20:25,960 --> 00:20:28,700 did Spree Wallet, Spree Bank Transfers, so that people 417 00:20:28,700 --> 00:20:31,320 could do a transfer to Konga and get their 418 00:20:31,320 --> 00:20:35,730 orders fulfilled. Favorite products, admin routes and access, shared 419 00:20:35,730 --> 00:20:39,470 endpoint. Unified, GTP and Pava are three gateways, very 420 00:20:39,470 --> 00:20:43,610 popular in Nigeria. And then point of sale. There's 421 00:20:43,610 --> 00:20:45,559 a typo there. Poiiint of sale. 422 00:20:45,559 --> 00:20:48,330 So these, these are like, and we built, and 423 00:20:48,330 --> 00:20:50,669 I'm really proud of - we not only launched 424 00:20:50,669 --> 00:20:53,530 this site in two months, we were even able 425 00:20:53,530 --> 00:20:55,700 to kind of extract so much and make it 426 00:20:55,700 --> 00:20:57,980 available to the community, to anybody who wants to 427 00:20:57,980 --> 00:21:02,990 use. These are also available on RubyGems. These extensions 428 00:21:02,990 --> 00:21:06,130 and a few other open source projects that we 429 00:21:06,130 --> 00:21:07,250 worked on. 430 00:21:07,250 --> 00:21:09,660 And not only did we release it, we actuality 431 00:21:09,660 --> 00:21:12,039 take the effort and the team is motivated enough 432 00:21:12,039 --> 00:21:15,299 to even provide support on open source stuff that 433 00:21:15,299 --> 00:21:17,880 we kind of roll out. LIke people come and 434 00:21:17,880 --> 00:21:19,970 say, you know, I'm facing this problem. And the 435 00:21:19,970 --> 00:21:22,570 team, the team members actually take the pain of 436 00:21:22,570 --> 00:21:25,510 answering each and every request and closing issues that 437 00:21:25,510 --> 00:21:28,039 unknown people create on GitHub, like this, an issue 438 00:21:28,039 --> 00:21:31,080 with your open source software. The ideal answer, or 439 00:21:31,080 --> 00:21:33,440 the typical answer is, OK, it's open source. Go 440 00:21:33,440 --> 00:21:35,789 figure it out and fix it for yourself. But, 441 00:21:35,789 --> 00:21:38,289 no, these guys have so much ownership of that 442 00:21:38,289 --> 00:21:40,220 open source code that they release then, they said, 443 00:21:40,220 --> 00:21:42,580 no, we'll fix it for you. It took five 444 00:21:42,580 --> 00:21:44,600 days maybe but they did it. 445 00:21:44,600 --> 00:21:46,870 But the point is that that culture that we 446 00:21:46,870 --> 00:21:50,350 were trying to build, and you know, by that, 447 00:21:50,350 --> 00:21:53,120 in every person, I feel we've been fairly successful 448 00:21:53,120 --> 00:21:56,320 doing that. And, and SpreeCommerce was watching all the 449 00:21:56,320 --> 00:21:58,090 time what we were doing, and we became the 450 00:21:58,090 --> 00:22:01,160 second firm, you know, to be labeled as SpreeCommerce 451 00:22:01,160 --> 00:22:05,280 premium partners. There's RailsDog, which is based in Washington. 452 00:22:05,280 --> 00:22:08,169 They were the first firm, because that was the 453 00:22:08,169 --> 00:22:11,799 firm founded by Sean Schofield, who was actually the 454 00:22:11,799 --> 00:22:15,030 creator of Spree. Before creating Spree, he was, he, 455 00:22:15,030 --> 00:22:17,419 he had this consultancy, so he moved over to 456 00:22:17,419 --> 00:22:20,690 Spree and RailsDog became the first partner, and we 457 00:22:20,690 --> 00:22:22,020 were the second partner. 458 00:22:22,020 --> 00:22:26,299 Now they have, like, I think nineteen partners. 459 00:22:26,299 --> 00:22:29,070 Another site we helped build is WeWork. Have you 460 00:22:29,070 --> 00:22:31,020 guys heard of WeWork, which is a cool working 461 00:22:31,020 --> 00:22:34,230 space in, like, ten cities in the, in the 462 00:22:34,230 --> 00:22:36,169 U.S.? Ten plus cities. I think they are even 463 00:22:36,169 --> 00:22:38,620 opening an office here in the West lower end 464 00:22:38,620 --> 00:22:41,160 of Chicago. It's, it's a cool working space, where 465 00:22:41,160 --> 00:22:43,490 you can go there and you know, work, pay 466 00:22:43,490 --> 00:22:47,610 by the day, half day, or get a monthly 467 00:22:47,610 --> 00:22:50,750 office. So flexible working space in WeWork, headquartered out 468 00:22:50,750 --> 00:22:53,490 of New York. So we built their entire property 469 00:22:53,490 --> 00:22:57,280 management system, and we, we also built the collaboration 470 00:22:57,280 --> 00:22:59,809 tool for people who are in that space, physically 471 00:22:59,809 --> 00:23:02,080 working together, but don't know what the other guy 472 00:23:02,080 --> 00:23:05,130 does, what, what his specialization is. So they could 473 00:23:05,130 --> 00:23:07,770 use this tool to kind of get to know 474 00:23:07,770 --> 00:23:10,690 each other virtually, and then find somebody right sitting 475 00:23:10,690 --> 00:23:13,100 right next to you maybe, and you can use 476 00:23:13,100 --> 00:23:14,440 those skills. 477 00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:17,160 Then, this is very interesting. Like, we worked for 478 00:23:17,160 --> 00:23:23,570 a product, and the product got funded by GreyLock, 479 00:23:23,570 --> 00:23:25,929 and then GreyLock asks this client, who's, who's your 480 00:23:25,929 --> 00:23:27,950 tech team, who's doing all the work? Because we 481 00:23:27,950 --> 00:23:30,350 want to get, we like your product so much 482 00:23:30,350 --> 00:23:31,750 that we want to get it done but he 483 00:23:31,750 --> 00:23:34,000 same team. We want to kind of get rid 484 00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:36,179 of our existing website and we want to seamlessly, 485 00:23:36,179 --> 00:23:38,700 I, I built that blog. 486 00:23:38,700 --> 00:23:41,919 So, it took me thirty, however, so I did 487 00:23:41,919 --> 00:23:42,160 the same. 488 00:23:42,160 --> 00:23:42,640 [audio issue] 489 00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:45,070 -very different. It, well, it wasn't like you couldn't 490 00:23:45,070 --> 00:23:47,480 just take any out of box, see the solution 491 00:23:47,480 --> 00:23:50,130 and implement it, so we, we built a custom, 492 00:23:50,130 --> 00:23:53,320 the presentation was, Ruby on Rails was- 493 00:23:53,320 --> 00:23:54,320 [audio issue] 494 00:23:54,320 --> 00:24:00,010 -out of Detroit, Michigan. It, it started by a 495 00:24:00,010 --> 00:24:04,900 physician who helps others prepare for emergency medicine examination. 496 00:24:04,900 --> 00:24:09,200 It's original name was EMQB, Emergency Medical Question Bank, 497 00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:12,490 where you could go and prepare. This is interesting 498 00:24:12,490 --> 00:24:16,370 because it's bootstrapped and profitable, from BaseCamp. And they 499 00:24:16,370 --> 00:24:19,080 were like what 37Signal was doing, DHH, and so 500 00:24:19,080 --> 00:24:21,730 I read about Ruby and Rails, read about- 501 00:24:21,730 --> 00:24:23,380 [audio issue] 502 00:24:23,380 --> 00:24:25,530 And, and over the years, we've done some work 503 00:24:25,530 --> 00:24:28,380 from op- for OpenTable, Disney, Logitech, Best Buy. The 504 00:24:28,380 --> 00:24:30,830 reason I, I'm showing all this is that, which 505 00:24:30,830 --> 00:24:34,039 leads us into the third part of this presentation. 506 00:24:34,039 --> 00:24:38,250 Is, like minimal marketing, mostly word of mouth and 507 00:24:38,250 --> 00:24:41,679 partner relationships. So we've kind of built these partner 508 00:24:41,679 --> 00:24:46,380 relationships with agencies, with other developers here, with development 509 00:24:46,380 --> 00:24:50,169 firms, small development firm services, which has allowed us 510 00:24:50,169 --> 00:24:52,539 to work with clients like these, which is like, 511 00:24:52,539 --> 00:24:54,940 a team that, a company that doesn't even have 512 00:24:54,940 --> 00:24:59,010 a marketing office in the U.S. they can land 513 00:24:59,010 --> 00:25:01,169 clients like this. 514 00:25:01,169 --> 00:25:04,299 OK. So I'll quickly talk about VinSol partnership program. 515 00:25:04,299 --> 00:25:06,429 That's the last part of the slide. Last part 516 00:25:06,429 --> 00:25:10,450 of the presentation. So, who is it for? It's 517 00:25:10,450 --> 00:25:14,270 for Rails developer having more work and less time. 518 00:25:14,270 --> 00:25:17,039 So they need help. Or if it's for smaller 519 00:25:17,039 --> 00:25:22,630 consulting shops planning to scale their operations. The, the 520 00:25:22,630 --> 00:25:25,240 basic simple model that works, is like staff augmentation. 521 00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:27,470 We have a team there, if you want to 522 00:25:27,470 --> 00:25:29,919 use that team to augment what you're doing here, 523 00:25:29,919 --> 00:25:32,070 you can contact us. 524 00:25:32,070 --> 00:25:35,000 There, there are kind of variations of this model, 525 00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:40,030 which I'll skip for now. And for, for agencies, 526 00:25:40,030 --> 00:25:43,039 like we have a model which is the technology 527 00:25:43,039 --> 00:25:45,429 partner. That is how we worked on all those 528 00:25:45,429 --> 00:25:48,650 projects for, like, Disney, OpenTable. We do some work 529 00:25:48,650 --> 00:25:51,320 for Chevron. Chipotle. The only reason we can do 530 00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:55,490 it is that we, partnered with these design agencies, 531 00:25:55,490 --> 00:25:58,289 brand agencies, advertising agencies who, who know a lot 532 00:25:58,289 --> 00:26:00,909 about design, but when it comes to technology, they 533 00:26:00,909 --> 00:26:05,200 need help, so they bring us in as partners. 534 00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:08,169 And then the product owners, this is the most 535 00:26:08,169 --> 00:26:10,700 interesting model. Like, you could build a product or 536 00:26:10,700 --> 00:26:12,990 you could just get your own team. Because, we 537 00:26:12,990 --> 00:26:15,020 could build a team for you. We have the 538 00:26:15,020 --> 00:26:18,080 infrastructure. We've done it for ourselves. We, we do 539 00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:22,850 it for other people as well. One bonus you 540 00:26:22,850 --> 00:26:25,220 get in doing this is like, if you're interested, 541 00:26:25,220 --> 00:26:26,870 you could come and live in India, be with 542 00:26:26,870 --> 00:26:30,150 the team, work with them. I mean, do the 543 00:26:30,150 --> 00:26:32,970 MVP there or do the real one there, and 544 00:26:32,970 --> 00:26:35,340 come back. It gives you two advantages when is 545 00:26:35,340 --> 00:26:38,220 that, the MVP gets done much faster if you're 546 00:26:38,220 --> 00:26:40,500 there, and second is you know the team like 547 00:26:40,500 --> 00:26:43,330 anything, you know each person what its, what his 548 00:26:43,330 --> 00:26:45,610 skills are, what his strengths or weaknesses are, which 549 00:26:45,610 --> 00:26:47,860 is like a huge plus when you have like 550 00:26:47,860 --> 00:26:51,710 just three or four people running the whole show. 551 00:26:51,710 --> 00:26:54,850 And we've even done equity deals. So with these 552 00:26:54,850 --> 00:26:56,330 like kind of product owners who don't have a 553 00:26:56,330 --> 00:27:00,070 lot of capitol, we don't mind doing equity deals, 554 00:27:00,070 --> 00:27:02,460 though you want to start with a pure consultative 555 00:27:02,460 --> 00:27:05,850 model, and then maybe feel that things might work 556 00:27:05,850 --> 00:27:09,970 out, we've, we've also done equity deals. 557 00:27:09,970 --> 00:27:13,059 So, this would help you, you know, kind of 558 00:27:13,059 --> 00:27:16,929 build scale, get scale, or get your product build, 559 00:27:16,929 --> 00:27:18,789 and it would really help me as well. Cause 560 00:27:18,789 --> 00:27:20,830 I, I can, I don't really have to focus 561 00:27:20,830 --> 00:27:24,520 so much on business then, which unfortunately I have 562 00:27:24,520 --> 00:27:26,400 to, in these last few years, because the team 563 00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:28,460 size has grown and there's always that bolts and 564 00:27:28,460 --> 00:27:31,340 pressures or running a business. But I can go 565 00:27:31,340 --> 00:27:33,070 back to, you know, what I love doing, which 566 00:27:33,070 --> 00:27:34,050 is coding. 567 00:27:34,460 --> 00:27:35,900 Thank you.