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Hello and welcome to Conscious TV

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My name is Renate McNay

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Today, in this studio with me is

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Suzanne Foxton

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Hello Suzanne

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Hi Renate

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Renate: Grace was shining on Suzanne,

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and she awakened while she was washing dishes,

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and we are going to find out the story about it.

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So can you talk us through, Suzanne,

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how that happened and when it happened?

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Suzanne: Well,

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the biggest sort of quality of it happening was that...

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what I was looking for was always

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right there in the first place, so,

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I can tell the story of what seemed

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to happen leading up to that...

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But just to preface it by saying

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it doesn't really matter

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it's not important.

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And this kind of thing seems

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to happen in so many

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different ways

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for different people...

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But I was going through some

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therapy.

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Three years ago or so,

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and was at a real...

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I was very suicidal and

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it was just the classic existential crisis.

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Renate: Yes, you were in a depression?

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Suzanne: Oh yes, big depression.

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Renate: Yes.

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Suzanne: No meaning, just looking at a big void.

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And many people will know just

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what I'm talking about.

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It was terrible, terrible. It was awful, it was hell.

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And I had a sort of big breakdown

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and went into hospital

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and I was very, very malnourished and underweight,

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and I spent a lot of time just getting my health back...

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I started therapy for the depression

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and I was probably

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just very fortunate that the person

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who was there to help me

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was a little bit of a traditional seeker

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I suppose, of enlightenment

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or whatever

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you might call it,

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and he introduced this a little bit

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into the therapy.

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Most of the therapy

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had a lot to do with

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just peeling away

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an incredible sense of

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worthlessness

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that really came into it a lot.

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And feeling utterly unworthy which is,

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I suppose, the big problem with

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the ego:

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it's just a little constructed

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thing that’s given away too much

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responsibility and feels

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really unworthy. So...

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Renate: So you had a difficult

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childhood. I guess?

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Suzanne: Well, I had

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some difficulties in childhood

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but I wouldn't blame my parents...

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Renate: Sure.

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Suzanne: ...at all, you know, it’s...

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We have no control over

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these things,

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and I know the way I responded

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was quite bad, rather than

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what actually

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might have happened to me; so that was quite

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difficult and I had

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a very difficult adolescence,

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I suppose,

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and did lots of experimenting

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with altering my state of mind.

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And I was very dependent

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on alcohol

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and other substances

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and was just basically desperate

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to be anywhere

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but where I was;

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desperate to get out of

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my head in any way I could.

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Whatever was in front of me was never enough

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it was never good enough,

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or else it was terrible.

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And I wanted to leave.

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I never could just be there,

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just be there,

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so when I had this sort of big existential crisis

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or whatever [voice becoming shaky],

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depression and suicide

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and all that, which so many people go through,

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I was really suffering;

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it was really awful.

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I suppose the therapy substituted

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with what other people

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might practice in other ways,

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you know. It was just a peeling

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away of the ego

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and the need to be validated. And in some strange

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convoluted way.

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I was validated

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and loved by the therapist,

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and also by my friends and family.

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And that sense of worthlessness

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got peeled away through that;

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and just sort of a being

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and a presence

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with other people

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became enjoyable

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and I was able to appreciate it.

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And then I had this thing

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with the knife [laughing],

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washing up.

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Renate: Yes, so tell us that thing with the knife.

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Suzanne: Well, the thing with the knife:

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I was just washing up and was...

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I had never been a traditional

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seeker in the way

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that some people are,

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but I had these recently

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introduced ideas about it

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about the meaning of life,

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what is it? What is...?

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We are all one,

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you know, that kind of thing,

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very vague and nebulous.

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But then I looked at the knife

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and it just seemed to be

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very much itself.

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I don't know...

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Renate: So the knife was itself?

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Suzanne: The knife became

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very 'knife-ish' [laughing]

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it's very, very,

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very hard to describe,

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except that I then just saw

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that everything had always been

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like that, the whole time,

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with maybe something

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in the way of it

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(we could call that the ego if you like;

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something like that).

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And I was just not able

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to fully appreciate it until then.

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But I think if I could just say,

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it's maybe a bit dangerous

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in a way to describe

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a certain happening,

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a big event that seems to happen

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and an awakening ‘ah-ha!’ moment,

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because often...

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that's not the case, I think,

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with some people; it’s a very gradual,

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gentle sort of a thing.

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But for me it just had to be “Whoa"

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"Whoa" here I am!” [laughs]

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Renate: Yes.

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Suzanne: And whatever I was looking for

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was this knife and whatever else

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happened to be around.

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Renate: Yes. So what happened

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after you saw the real

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nature in the knife [laughing]?

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Suzanne: Well, what happened?

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It doesn't really matter,

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but I did have a sort of a moment

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there where I was crouching

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on the kitchen floor going “Whoa!”

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a bit like Bill and Ted in

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their ‘Excellent Adventure’ “Whoa, whoa!”

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But it didn’t really last that long,

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and that was kind of fun.

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A sort of internal visual thing

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of all creation forming in on

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itself again and again

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and kind of winking in and out

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of existence over and over.

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Something like that.

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It's very hard to describe.

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Renate: So you knew

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what you were experiencing in

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this moment?

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You didn’t have any doubts coming in,

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or you didn't have any thought like,

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“Oh my God, I am getting crazy!”?

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Suzanne: Yes, well, I think that

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afterwards, yes I did |laughing]!

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I got some sort of

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a physiological, phenomenal thing

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where I was... I felt like I was

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seeing things

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maybe slightly above

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the usual where the eyes

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come out

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And I did think...

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And I was still in therapy

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and I was thinking "Am I going nuts?"

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And so I was just searching

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on the internet,

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as one does these days,

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and I came across

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Stanley Sobottka's Course

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in Consciousness.

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He’s a quantum physicist at

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the University Of Virginia

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and he wrote...

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He had a whole tome of about

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two hundred pages, about

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the scientific way

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of getting there.

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He was an atomic physicist

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so he was looking at the atom

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and how it’s all spaced,

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and that there don't seem to be

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any rules and

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there doesn’t seem to be anything

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there and how he came to some

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kind of enlightenment through that.

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Renate: O really?

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Suzanne: Yeah. And at the end of

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of that tome, Tony Parsons

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was cited.

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Which he’s quite local;

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he's the only one in UK that was cited.

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And so I went to see him,

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and just some of the words that

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he used just... It just reassured

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my mind that

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it wasn't going mad, you know;

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that it was just...

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seeing things very clearly

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and without some of

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the usual safeguards that

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the mind puts in place perhaps.

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And that’s why my perspective

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was slightly different;

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things would seem to actually

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visually disappear

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and that kind of thing.

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And that really doesn't seem to be

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an issue at the moment

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it just.. Everything seems very

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much itself and it always has done.

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Renate: Yes. So when you say,

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"Things started disappearing" -

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is that something you still experience?

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Suzanne: Not really. I mean,

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a lot of people who write and

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talk about this kind of thing

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they do go on about the

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importance of not thinking and

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you must not think

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and clear your mind of thoughts.

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And if I do... If my mind doesn't seem

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to be terribly engaged, you know

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with thinking and planning

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and 'whatever-ing', then yes

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sometimes actual physical

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objects can just seem to waver

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around a bit, you know...

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But I wouldn’t say this is

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a necessary thing, or a thing

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that people should be

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looking for, it’s just,

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you know the mind is going

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to do funny things sometimes.