[Script Info]
Title: 
[Events]
Format: Layer, Start, End, Style, Name, MarginL, MarginR, MarginV, Effect, Text
Dialogue: 0,0:00:04.47,0:00:05.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[REPORTERS TALKING ALL AT ONCE]
Dialogue: 0,0:00:05.57,0:00:05.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,DARFUR...
Dialogue: 0,0:00:05.57,0:00:05.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,GUATEMALA...
Dialogue: 0,0:00:05.57,0:00:06.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THE NAZI KILLERS...
Dialogue: 0,0:00:06.91,0:00:08.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Narrator: GENOCIDE.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:08.04,0:00:08.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I MEAN, WHY WERE THEY DOING THIS?
Dialogue: 0,0:00:08.04,0:00:09.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,TERROR.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:09.24,0:00:11.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,BEST-SELLING HISTORIAN DANIEL GOLDHAGEN
Dialogue: 0,0:00:11.58,0:00:13.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,EXPLORES THE MOTIVE...
Dialogue: 0,0:00:13.35,0:00:15.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,GENOCIDE NEVER HAPPENS AS A SURPRISE.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:15.52,0:00:17.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND EXPLODES THE MYTH...
Dialogue: 0,0:00:17.45,0:00:18.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THESE PEOPLE HAD TO BE ELIMINATED.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:18.92,0:00:20.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,BEHIND A CRIME...
Dialogue: 0,0:00:20.65,0:00:22.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,IT WAS CRUELTY THAT OVERCAME US,
Dialogue: 0,0:00:22.49,0:00:23.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,ME AND MY FELLOW CRIMINALS.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:23.79,0:00:26.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,GENOCIDE IS ALWAYS POLITICS.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:26.16,0:00:28.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THAT'S WORSE THAN WAR.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:28.66,0:00:33.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,CAPTIONING MADE POSSIBLE BY FRIENDS OF NCI
Dialogue: 0,0:00:33.43,0:00:36.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"WORSE THAN WAR" WAS MADE POSSIBLE BY...
Dialogue: 0,0:00:36.44,0:00:41.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THE PERSHING SQUARE FOUNDATION...
Dialogue: 0,0:00:41.44,0:00:47.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND THE EINHORN FAMILY CHARITABLE TRUST.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:47.45,0:01:07.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,ADDITIONAL FUNDING WAS PROVIDED BY...
Dialogue: 0,0:01:07.90,0:01:14.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[BIRD CHIRPING]
Dialogue: 0,0:01:14.91,0:01:18.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Man: SO ALL THE PEOPLE HERE MURDERED OTHER PEOPLE?
Dialogue: 0,0:01:18.41,0:01:21.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[TRANSLATOR SPEAKS NATIVE LANGUAGE]
Dialogue: 0,0:01:21.41,0:01:55.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,YES. YOU CAN'T BE HERE IF YOU HAVEN'T KILLED.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:55.98,0:02:04.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[BIRD CHIRPING]
Dialogue: 0,0:02:04.09,0:02:07.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,CAN YOU SHOW ME HOW YOU-- HOW THE PERSON WAS HACKED?
Dialogue: 0,0:02:07.33,0:02:47.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[TRANSLATOR SPEAKS NATIVE LANGUAGE]
Dialogue: 0,0:02:47.43,0:02:51.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'VE BEEN THINKING AND WRITING ABOUT GENOCIDE FOR NEARLY 30 YEARS,
Dialogue: 0,0:02:51.60,0:02:54.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,IT'S SOMETHING PEOPLE DON'T MUCH LIKE TO TALK ABOUT
Dialogue: 0,0:02:54.61,0:02:58.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND ABOUT WHICH MOST OF US REMAIN DANGEROUSLY MISINFORMED.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:58.61,0:03:02.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Woman: GOOD EVENING. A NEW BOOK CALLED "HITLER'S WILLING EXECUTIONERS,"
Dialogue: 0,0:03:02.55,0:03:04.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,A HIGHLY CONTROVERSIAL ACCOUNT OF THE HOLOCAUST...
Dialogue: 0,0:03:04.55,0:03:06.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Man: THE AMERICAN DANIEL GOLDHAGEN SAYS
Dialogue: 0,0:03:06.05,0:03:09.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THE EXCUSE OF ONLY OBEYING ORDERS WON'T WASH.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:09.56,0:03:12.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[MAN SPEAKS NATIVE LANGUAGE]
Dialogue: 0,0:03:12.06,0:03:14.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Jane Pauley: A CONTROVERSIAL BOOK ABOUT THE HOLOCAUST,
Dialogue: 0,0:03:14.39,0:03:16.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,RAISING A TROUBLING NEW QUESTION:
Dialogue: 0,0:03:16.40,0:03:18.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WERE NAZI KILLERS HELPED
Dialogue: 0,0:03:18.40,0:03:21.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,BY HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF ORDINARY GERMANS?
Dialogue: 0,0:03:21.60,0:03:25.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THEY SUBJECTED THE VICTIMS TO GRATUITOUS BRUTALITY,
Dialogue: 0,0:03:25.10,0:03:26.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,INCESSANT CRUELTY,
Dialogue: 0,0:03:26.77,0:03:28.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,SO THE PICTURE THAT EMERGES IS NOT OF RELUCTANT PEOPLE
Dialogue: 0,0:03:28.94,0:03:31.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WHO ARE COMPELLED TO DO WHAT THEY DID,
Dialogue: 0,0:03:31.11,0:03:34.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,BUT PEOPLE WHO AGREED WITH THE PROGRAM, WHO BELIEVED
Dialogue: 0,0:03:34.11,0:03:40.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THAT THE DEATH OF THE JEWS WAS NECESSARY AND JUST.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:40.79,0:03:44.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Goldhagen: I'VE SPENT MY PROFESSIONAL LIFE TRYING TO DISPEL THE MANY MYTHS
Dialogue: 0,0:03:44.29,0:03:46.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THAT CLOUD PEOPLE'S JUDGMENT AND PREVENT US FROM DOING
Dialogue: 0,0:03:46.79,0:03:56.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,SOMETHING EFFECTIVE TO STOP THE KILLING.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:56.47,0:03:59.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,GENOCIDES HAPPEN IN EVERY CORNER OF THE WORLD,
Dialogue: 0,0:03:59.47,0:04:03.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THROUGH EVERY TYPE OF PEOPLE.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:03.31,0:04:09.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THE NUMBERS IN THE PAST 100 YEARS ARE STAGGERING.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:09.88,0:04:14.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THE TURKS SLAUGHTERED MORE THAN A MILLION ARMENIANS DURING WORLD WAR I.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:14.89,0:04:17.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,IN THE 1930s AND 1940s,
Dialogue: 0,0:04:17.89,0:04:22.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THE JAPANESE KILLED MILLIONS ACROSS ASIA.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:22.70,0:04:24.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,IN THE SOVIET UNION,
Dialogue: 0,0:04:24.13,0:04:26.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THE ESTIMATED NUMBER OF DEATHS IN THE GULAG CAMPS
Dialogue: 0,0:04:26.60,0:04:30.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND BEYOND IS MORE THAN 8 MILLION.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:30.84,0:04:33.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THE GERMANS SLAUGHTERED 6 MILLION JEWS
Dialogue: 0,0:04:33.54,0:04:36.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND MILLIONS MORE DURING WORLD WAR II.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:36.51,0:04:38.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,IN THE 1950s AND 1960s,
Dialogue: 0,0:04:38.51,0:04:43.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THE COMMUNIST CHINESE KILLED AN ESTIMATED 30 MILLION,
Dialogue: 0,0:04:43.05,0:04:45.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND DURING THE 1970s,
Dialogue: 0,0:04:45.05,0:04:48.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THE KHMER ROUGE KILLED 1.7 MILLION CAMBODIANS--
Dialogue: 0,0:04:48.55,0:04:52.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,FULLY 20% OF THEIR COUNTRY'S POPULATION.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:52.49,0:04:54.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,BOSNIA,
Dialogue: 0,0:04:54.59,0:04:55.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,RWANDA,
Dialogue: 0,0:04:55.70,0:04:56.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,CONGO,
Dialogue: 0,0:04:56.70,0:04:58.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,DARFUR.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:58.70,0:05:01.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,ALL TOLD, IN OUR TIME
Dialogue: 0,0:05:01.13,0:05:05.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THERE HAVE BEEN MORE THAN 100 MILLION INNOCENT VICTIMS OF GENOCIDE--
Dialogue: 0,0:05:05.70,0:05:09.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,MORE THAN ALL THE COMBAT DEATHS IN ALL THE WARS FOUGHT
Dialogue: 0,0:05:09.71,0:05:13.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,DURING THAT TIME EVERYWHERE IN THE WORLD.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:13.21,0:05:17.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,BASED ON THE HUMAN TOLL ALONE, GENOCIDE AND MASS SLAUGHTER
Dialogue: 0,0:05:17.72,0:05:21.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,ARE WORSE PROBLEMS PLAGUING HUMANITY THAN WAR.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:21.72,0:05:27.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WE NEED TO UNDERSTAND WHY.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:27.23,0:05:30.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Man: IT IS A GREAT, DIFFICULT TASK YOU'RE FACING
Dialogue: 0,0:05:30.23,0:05:35.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,TO CONVEY HUMAN BEINGS WHOSE BEHAVIOR SEEMS TO DEFY UNDERSTANDING,
Dialogue: 0,0:05:35.13,0:05:37.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND THEY WERE BEYOND BELIEF.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:37.14,0:05:39.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Goldhagen, voice-over: IN MY WORK, I HAVE BENEFITED FROM THE WISDOM
Dialogue: 0,0:05:39.14,0:05:40.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,OF A VALUED MENTOR,
Dialogue: 0,0:05:40.64,0:05:42.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,A SCHOLAR OF GENOCIDE,
Dialogue: 0,0:05:42.14,0:05:44.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND SURVIVOR OF THE HOLOCAUST.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:44.14,0:05:46.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,BUT, YOU KNOW, AT THIS POINT, THOUGH--
Dialogue: 0,0:05:46.14,0:05:48.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,BUT LET ME JUST REMIND YOU...
Dialogue: 0,0:05:48.55,0:05:50.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,HE ALSO HAPPENS TO BE MY FATHER.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:50.55,0:05:53.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WHEN THE FIRST NEWS OF THE GAS CHAMBERS CAME,
Dialogue: 0,0:05:53.05,0:05:56.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THE JEWISH COMMUNITY WAS VERY SKEPTICAL OF IT.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:56.56,0:05:58.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,RIGHT, BUT WE'RE IN A DIFFERENT TIME NOW.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:58.56,0:06:00.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,NOBODY DISBELIEVES THAT THESE THINGS HAPPENED.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:00.49,0:06:01.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THAT'S QUITE TRUE.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:01.99,0:06:03.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WHAT THEY HAVE DIFFICULTY UNDERSTANDING--
Dialogue: 0,0:06:03.93,0:06:05.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,IS WHY IT HAPPENED, YES.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:05.100,0:06:09.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND ACCEPTING NOTIONS THAT VIOLATE THEIR OWN
Dialogue: 0,0:06:09.00,0:06:11.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,COMMON-SENSE UNDERSTANDINGS OF THE WORLD.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:11.00,0:06:13.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THERE'S A CERTAIN PARADOX HERE
Dialogue: 0,0:06:13.00,0:06:16.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,BECAUSE SOMETIMES ONE ACCEPTS VERY HIGHLY,
Dialogue: 0,0:06:16.01,0:06:19.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,SEEMINGLY ORIGINAL, PROFOUND THEORIES,
Dialogue: 0,0:06:19.01,0:06:23.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND SOMETIMES THE EXPLANATION IS RELATIVELY SIMPLE.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:23.62,0:06:26.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I THINK THE ACTUAL EXPLANATIONS ARE--
Dialogue: 0,0:06:26.62,0:06:29.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,ARE THREATENING AND UNSETTLING TO PEOPLE.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:29.12,0:06:32.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THE NOTION THAT ORDINARY PEOPLE WOULD WILLFULLY BUTCHER OTHER PEOPLE,
Dialogue: 0,0:06:32.62,0:06:35.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,TORTURE THEM, INCLUDING CHILDREN, SLAUGHTER THEM,
Dialogue: 0,0:06:35.16,0:06:37.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,IS A VERY DISTURBING NOTION TO PEOPLE,
Dialogue: 0,0:06:37.86,0:06:40.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,PARTICULARLY IF THEY'RE LOOKING UPON PEOPLE WITH WHOM THEY IDENTIFY.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:40.37,0:06:42.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,SO THEY SEEK EXPLANATIONS WHICH ARE MORE--
Dialogue: 0,0:06:42.57,0:06:45.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I WOULDN'T SAY MORE COMFORTING, BUT LESS THREATENING TO THEM...
Dialogue: 0,0:06:45.57,0:06:48.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Goldhagen, voice-over: AS EARLY AS I CAN REMEMBER THINKING SERIOUS THOUGHTS,
Dialogue: 0,0:06:48.57,0:06:52.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,MY FATHER AND I HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT THESE THINGS.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:52.44,0:06:56.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AS A SCHOLAR, HE JOURNEYED INTO THE DARKEST CHAPTERS OF THE HUMAN EXPERIENCE,
Dialogue: 0,0:06:56.95,0:07:01.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,SEEKING TO UNDERSTAND NOT ONLY WHAT HAPPENED, BUT WHY.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:01.39,0:07:05.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,NOW I AM CONTINUING THE JOURNEY HE BEGAN,
Dialogue: 0,0:07:05.39,0:07:18.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,A JOURNEY THAT IN A SENSE, I HAVE BEEN ON MY ENTIRE LIFE.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:18.60,0:07:24.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,PEOPLE NEED TO UNDERSTAND THAT NOTHING IS INEVITABLE ABOUT GENOCIDE.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:24.11,0:07:32.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,IT BOILS DOWN TO A SERIES OF CHOICES.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:32.62,0:07:35.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,LEADERS CHOOSE TO INITIATE THE KILLING,
Dialogue: 0,0:07:35.86,0:07:42.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,ORDINARY PEOPLE MAKE A CONSCIOUS CHOICE TO PARTICIPATE...
Dialogue: 0,0:07:42.36,0:07:45.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND THOSE WITH THE POWER TO PREVENT OR STOP IT
Dialogue: 0,0:07:45.36,0:07:50.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,CHOOSE TO DO NOTHING.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:50.64,0:07:53.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I STUDY GENOCIDES BECAUSE I BELIEVE
Dialogue: 0,0:07:53.14,0:07:56.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THE MORE WE KNOW ABOUT HOW AND WHY GENOCIDES HAPPEN,
Dialogue: 0,0:07:56.14,0:07:58.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THE MORE WE CAN GET POLITICAL LEADERS
Dialogue: 0,0:07:58.74,0:08:04.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND ORDINARY PEOPLE TO MAKE DIFFERENT CHOICES.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:04.12,0:08:07.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,IMAGINE IF ONE DAY, PEOPLE IN YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD
Dialogue: 0,0:08:07.19,0:08:15.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WERE DRAGGED OUT OF THEIR HOMES AND KILLED IN THE STREET.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:15.06,0:08:18.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,YOU WOULD WANT THE KILLERS STOPPED AND PUNISHED,
Dialogue: 0,0:08:18.06,0:08:22.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND YOU WOULD WANT TO KNOW THAT IT WOULD NEVER HAPPEN AGAIN.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:22.90,0:08:25.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WHY SHOULD IT BE ANY DIFFERENT
Dialogue: 0,0:08:25.40,0:08:29.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WHEN THE VICTIMS ARE SOMEWHERE ELSE?
Dialogue: 0,0:08:29.54,0:08:32.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,LIKE THE PEOPLE IN YOUR COMMUNITY,
Dialogue: 0,0:08:32.04,0:08:34.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,EACH GENOCIDE VICTIM IS AN INDIVIDUAL.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:34.75,0:08:43.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,A FATHER, A MOTHER, A DAUGHTER, A SON.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:43.02,0:08:47.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AS A SCHOLAR, I SPEND MOST OF MY TIME IN ARCHIVES AND LIBRARIES.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:47.43,0:08:51.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,BUT OVER THE PAST YEAR, I TRAVELED TO THESE "SOMEWHERE ELSES,"
Dialogue: 0,0:08:51.93,0:08:56.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THE SITES OF SOME OF THE WORST MASS MURDERS OF OUR TIME.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:56.07,0:09:02.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[BIRDS CHIRPING]
Dialogue: 0,0:09:02.01,0:09:07.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[DOOR CLANGS]
Dialogue: 0,0:09:07.58,0:09:13.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,IT'S BEEN DECADES STUDYING NAZIS AND THE HOLOCAUST, GENOCIDE,
Dialogue: 0,0:09:13.59,0:09:23.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,BUT I'VE NEVER BEEN IN A GAS CHAMBER BEFORE.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:23.46,0:09:25.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I STARTED MY JOURNEY MINDFUL
Dialogue: 0,0:09:25.46,0:09:28.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THAT THERE HAS NEVER BEEN A TIME DURING THE PAST CENTURY
Dialogue: 0,0:09:28.47,0:09:31.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WHEN OUR PLANET WAS FREE OF MASS MURDER,
Dialogue: 0,0:09:31.97,0:09:33.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,INCLUDING NOW.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:33.97,0:09:35.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Woman: FOR 5 LONG YEARS,
Dialogue: 0,0:09:35.47,0:09:38.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,DARFUR HAS BEEN A SCENE OF DEVASTATION AND DESTRUCTION.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:38.98,0:09:41.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,300,000 PEOPLE HAVE DIED
Dialogue: 0,0:09:41.48,0:09:43.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND 2.5 MILLION HAVE FLED THEIR HOMES
Dialogue: 0,0:09:43.98,0:09:46.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AS THE SUDANESE GOVERNMENT HAS TRIED TO CRUSH A REBELLION
Dialogue: 0,0:09:46.99,0:09:49.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AGAINST ITS RULE.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:49.49,0:09:53.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Goldhagen: THE PLIGHT OF DARFUR HAS MOVED PEOPLE OF CONSCIENCE AROUND THE WORLD
Dialogue: 0,0:09:53.99,0:09:59.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND HAS ONLY INTENSIFIED MY DESIRE TO KNOW MORE...
Dialogue: 0,0:09:59.26,0:10:02.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,TO SEE THE PLACES WHERE THE HORRORS HAVE HAPPENED,
Dialogue: 0,0:10:02.77,0:10:05.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,MEET THE PEOPLE WHO WERE THERE,
Dialogue: 0,0:10:05.20,0:10:08.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND ASK THE KINDS OF QUESTIONS YOU HAVE TO ASK,
Dialogue: 0,0:10:08.71,0:10:15.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,EVEN THOUGH SOMETIMES YOU MAY DREAD HEARING THE ANSWER.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:15.71,0:10:18.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Goldhagen: WHEN THE GENOCIDE BEGAN, WHAT HAPPENED TO YOU?
Dialogue: 0,0:10:18.72,0:10:20.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[TRANSLATOR SPEAKING NATIVE LANGUAGE]
Dialogue: 0,0:10:20.72,0:10:31.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND HER FAMILY.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:31.90,0:10:34.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,SHE SAID HER DAD WAS KILLED LIKE--
Dialogue: 0,0:10:34.40,0:10:40.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,HE WAS, YOU KNOW, CHOPPED. HE WAS CUT WITH A MACHETE.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:40.54,0:10:43.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND THE MOM WAS CHOPPED. THAT WHAT SHE'S SAYING
Dialogue: 0,0:10:43.04,0:10:48.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,IS SHE WAS CHOPPED WITH A MACHETE.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:48.58,0:10:52.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND THE BROTHER WAS, ALSO.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:52.68,0:10:54.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WHO KILLED HER FAMILY?
Dialogue: 0,0:10:54.35,0:10:56.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WERE THESE JUST LOCAL PEOPLE WHO LIVE THROUGH HERE?
Dialogue: 0,0:10:56.19,0:11:01.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[TRANSLATOR SPEAKS NATIVE LANGUAGE]
Dialogue: 0,0:11:01.86,0:11:03.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,SHE SAYS THEY WERE NEIGHBORS.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:03.56,0:11:18.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,MOST OF THAT, THEY WERE EVEN FRIENDS TO THE FAMILY.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:18.51,0:11:22.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[COW BELLOWS]
Dialogue: 0,0:11:22.55,0:11:25.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Goldhagen: IN GENOCIDE AFTER GENOCIDE,
Dialogue: 0,0:11:25.05,0:11:28.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THESE ARE THE QUESTIONS THAT CONTINUE TO BE ASKED:
Dialogue: 0,0:11:28.05,0:11:31.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,HOW DO NEIGHBORS END UP TURNING AGAINST NEIGHBORS?
Dialogue: 0,0:11:31.39,0:11:35.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WHY DO THE KILLERS KILL?
Dialogue: 0,0:11:35.56,0:11:37.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,HERE IN RWANDA,
Dialogue: 0,0:11:37.56,0:11:41.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,MORE THAN 800,000 MEN, WOMEN, AND CHILDREN
Dialogue: 0,0:11:41.07,0:11:46.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WERE KILLED OVER THE COURSE OF 3 MONTHS.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:46.07,0:11:48.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,MOST WERE ETHNIC TUTSI,
Dialogue: 0,0:11:48.24,0:11:51.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,MURDERED BY MEMBERS OF THE HUTU MAJORITY,
Dialogue: 0,0:11:51.24,0:11:54.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,FACE TO FACE WITH MACHETES,
Dialogue: 0,0:11:54.25,0:11:59.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,CLUBS, AND GUNS.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:59.75,0:12:29.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,HITLER'S GAS CHAMBERS DID NOT KILL WITH SUCH DEADLY EFFICIENCY.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:29.01,0:12:31.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Goldhagen: WHEN PEOPLE KILLED THE VICTIMS,
Dialogue: 0,0:12:31.52,0:12:35.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,DID THEY TRY TO KILL THEM AS PAINLESSLY AS POSSIBLE
Dialogue: 0,0:12:35.02,0:12:37.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,OR DID THEY TRY TO MAKE THEM SUFFER?
Dialogue: 0,0:12:37.52,0:13:04.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[TRANSLATOR SPEAKING NATIVE LANGUAGE]
Dialogue: 0,0:13:04.45,0:13:08.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Goldhagen: I FIND IT HARD TO UNDERSTAND, AND I WANT TO UNDERSTAND,
Dialogue: 0,0:13:08.02,0:13:11.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,HOW PEOPLE COULD APPROACH OTHER PEOPLE,
Dialogue: 0,0:13:11.02,0:13:15.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WHO ARE BEGGING FOR THEIR LIVES AND SCREAMING IN PAIN,
Dialogue: 0,0:13:15.03,0:13:26.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND CHOP THEM.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:26.74,0:13:28.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,IT'S A VERY TOUGH QUESTION TO ANSWER
Dialogue: 0,0:13:28.24,0:14:42.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,BECAUSE THEY HAVE THE SAME FLESH, LIKE YOURS.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:42.01,0:14:46.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,ELIE'S WORD--CRUELTY-- COULD NOT BE MORE ACCURATE.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:46.02,0:14:49.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,CRUELTY IS AT THE HEART OF GENOCIDE.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:49.52,0:14:53.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THE KILLERS DON'T JUST ERADICATE THE TARGETED PEOPLE,
Dialogue: 0,0:14:53.02,0:14:56.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,BUT BRUTALIZE THEM IN WAYS THAT FAR EXCEED
Dialogue: 0,0:14:56.03,0:15:00.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WHAT IS NEEDED TO KILL THEM.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:00.97,0:15:07.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I SEE THE EVIDENCE OF SUCH CRUELTY EVERYWHERE I GO.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:07.04,0:15:11.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I CAME TO GUATEMALA, WHERE A MASSIVE EFFORT HAS BEEN UNDERWAY
Dialogue: 0,0:15:11.04,0:15:15.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,TO LITERALLY UNCOVER THE TRUTH ABOUT THE GOVERNMENT'S MASS SLAUGHTER
Dialogue: 0,0:15:15.55,0:15:24.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,OF 200,000 INDIGENOUS MAYA DURING THE 1980s.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:24.36,0:15:28.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,OUTSIDE GUATEMALA, FEW PEOPLE EVEN KNOW ABOUT THE GENOCIDE.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:28.86,0:15:39.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Suasnavar: BUENOS DIAS.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:39.70,0:16:27.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Goldhagen: DO WE KNOW--IS THIS A FAMILY OR TWO FAMILIES? ARE THERE ADULTS?
Dialogue: 0,0:16:27.15,0:16:28.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Goldhagen: IN THESE HILLS,
Dialogue: 0,0:16:28.65,0:16:32.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THE GUATEMALAN MILITARY CONDUCTED A SCORCHED-EARTH CAMPAIGN
Dialogue: 0,0:16:32.16,0:16:36.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AGAINST MAYA AND LEFTIST INSURGENTS.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:36.56,0:16:39.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THE MAYAN PEOPLE, THEY SAID, WERE INHERENTLY SUBVERSIVE
Dialogue: 0,0:16:39.56,0:16:47.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND AN IMPEDIMENT TO PROGRESS.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:47.61,0:16:49.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THE GOVERNMENT STRATEGY WAS SUMMED UP
Dialogue: 0,0:16:49.94,0:16:52.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,IN A GRIM APHORISM OF THE TIME--
Dialogue: 0,0:16:52.94,0:17:01.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"TO KILL THE FISH, YOU HAVE TO DRAIN THE POND."
Dialogue: 0,0:17:01.62,0:17:05.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,HERE, IN THE MOUNTAIN HAMLET OF PLAN DE SANCHEZ,
Dialogue: 0,0:17:05.12,0:17:27.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THEY DRAINED THE POND ON JULY 18, 1982.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:27.38,0:17:31.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Woman: THE MILITARY WOULD SEPARATE THE WOMEN AND THE MEN.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:31.25,0:17:35.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,SOMETIMES THEY WOULD TAKE THE INFANTS OUT OF THE WOMEN'S ARMS
Dialogue: 0,0:17:35.25,0:17:37.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND SIMPLY SMASH THEM ON THE GROUND,
Dialogue: 0,0:17:37.72,0:17:39.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,KILL THEM RIGHT THERE IN FRONT OF EVERYBODY.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:39.96,0:17:41.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THEY CUT TONGUES OUT.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:41.96,0:17:43.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THEY OPENED PREGNANT WOMEN'S BELLIES
Dialogue: 0,0:17:43.96,0:17:46.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND DASHED FETUSES AGAINST TREES.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:46.46,0:17:49.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THEY BURNED PEOPLE ALIVE.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:49.47,0:17:53.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WE KNOW THIS BECAUSE THERE WERE PEOPLE
Dialogue: 0,0:17:53.00,0:17:57.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WHO, EVEN IN THE MIDST OF THIS MAYHEM AND MASS KILLING,
Dialogue: 0,0:17:57.51,0:18:00.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,SOMEHOW MANAGED TO HIDE-- BEHIND A DOOR,
Dialogue: 0,0:18:00.01,0:18:04.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,UNDERNEATH A PILE OF CORN HUSKS--
Dialogue: 0,0:18:04.42,0:19:23.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND WATCH.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:23.36,0:19:26.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Goldhagen: ONLY ONCE I GOT TO GUATEMALA DID I REALIZE
Dialogue: 0,0:19:26.36,0:19:29.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,HOW REMOTE THESE MOUNTAIN VILLAGES REALLY ARE.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:29.37,0:19:32.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,GOVERNMENT LEADERS CALL THESE SUBSISTENCE FARMERS
Dialogue: 0,0:19:32.50,0:19:35.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,A THREAT TO THE WELL-BEING OF THE COUNTRY,
Dialogue: 0,0:19:35.41,0:19:39.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,BUT THEY DID NOT POSE A THREAT TO ANYONE.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:39.41,0:20:53.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THE GUATEMALAN PERPETRATORS OBLITERATED ONE SUCH COMMUNITY AFTER ANOTHER.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:53.28,0:20:58.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Goldhagen: EVERYWHERE I GO, THE FACES OF CHILDREN HAUNT ME THE MOST.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:58.26,0:21:00.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I HAVE CHILDREN, TOO,
Dialogue: 0,0:21:00.69,0:21:03.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND IT'S HARD NOT TO THINK ABOUT THEM AS I HEAR STORIES
Dialogue: 0,0:21:03.86,0:21:07.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,OVER AND OVER ABOUT THE CRUELTY CHILDREN SUFFERED.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:07.43,0:21:11.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,...WHEN THEY KILLED ABOUT 177 PEOPLE,
Dialogue: 0,0:21:11.44,0:21:13.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,MOST OF THEM CHILDREN AND THE OTHERS WOMEN.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:13.94,0:21:17.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,SO THERE WASN'T A SINGLE ADULT MALE, SO WHICH CAN--
Dialogue: 0,0:21:17.44,0:21:19.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,YOU KNOW, YOU CAN SAY LETS YOU UNDERSTAND
Dialogue: 0,0:21:19.94,0:21:21.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THAT THESE ARE NOT COMBAT DEATHS.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:21.95,0:21:24.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,OH, NO. YEAH, YOU KNOW, IT'S VERY COMMON IN MASS MURDERS
Dialogue: 0,0:21:24.95,0:21:24.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,FOR THE PERPETRATORS TO DO THIS TO CHILDREN...
Dialogue: 0,0:21:24.95,0:21:27.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,YEAH.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:27.45,0:21:29.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AFTER RWANDA AND THE HOLOCAUST.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:29.45,0:21:32.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Goldhagen, voice-over: FREDY PECCERELLI, A GUATEMALAN NATIVE RAISED IN AMERICA,
Dialogue: 0,0:21:32.96,0:21:35.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,IS IN CHARGE OF COLLECTING AND CATALOGUING THE BONES.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:35.96,0:21:38.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THEY PORTRAY A MESSAGE. WHEN THEY DO THIS,
Dialogue: 0,0:21:38.46,0:21:41.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THEY ARE ALSO KILLING THE SEED OF EVIL, ACCORDING TO THEM,
Dialogue: 0,0:21:41.47,0:21:43.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WHETHER IT BE IN NAZI GERMANY
Dialogue: 0,0:21:43.40,0:21:45.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,OR WHETHER IT BE IN GUATEMALA IN THE 1980s.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:45.90,0:21:49.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,BUT THIS IS THE BONE LAB OF THE FORENSIC ANTHROPOLOGY LABORATORY.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:49.91,0:21:52.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,FREDY IS AMASSING A RECORD OF THE ATROCITIES
Dialogue: 0,0:21:52.81,0:21:54.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,COMMITTED BY THE GUATEMALAN PERPETRATORS...
Dialogue: 0,0:21:54.88,0:21:56.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,BUT THE FIRST STAGE AFTER THE...
Dialogue: 0,0:21:56.51,0:22:00.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND PROVIDING THE VICTIMS' FAMILIES WITH THE REMAINS TO BURY PROPERLY.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:00.02,0:22:02.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Peccerelli: THE BONES HOLD THE STORY
Dialogue: 0,0:22:02.95,0:22:05.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,OF WHAT HAPPENED TO A PERSON DURING THEIR LIFE
Dialogue: 0,0:22:05.92,0:22:08.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND MIGHT EVEN TELL US WHAT HAPPENED TO THEM
Dialogue: 0,0:22:08.93,0:22:10.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,DURING THE EVENT OF THEIR DEATH
Dialogue: 0,0:22:10.93,0:22:12.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND EVEN WHAT HAPPENED TO THEM AFTER DEATH.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:12.73,0:22:16.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,SO HERE, FOR EXAMPLE, WE CAN SEE...HOW...
Dialogue: 0,0:22:16.74,0:22:20.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND IF YOU WANT, I'LL ALLOW YOU TO FEEL THE DIFFERENCE SO YOU CAN SEE.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:20.74,0:22:23.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THIS IS A VERY SHARP CUT, AND IF YOU RUN YOUR HAND THROUGH IT,
Dialogue: 0,0:22:23.24,0:22:23.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,IT'S VERY, VERY SMOOTH.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:23.24,0:22:25.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,MM-HMM.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:25.74,0:22:28.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,YOU SEE, THAT WAS CAUSED BY A MACHETE STRIKING
Dialogue: 0,0:22:28.91,0:22:32.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THE RIGHT SIDE OF THE HEAD AND ALSO CUTTING THE ATLAS.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:32.88,0:22:35.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND, YOU SEE, WHEN YOU MATCH IT UP ANATOMICALLY,
Dialogue: 0,0:22:35.42,0:22:35.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,YOU CAN SEE THAT THIS TRAUMA HERE...
Dialogue: 0,0:22:35.42,0:22:38.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,RIGHT.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:38.12,0:22:40.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,IS RELATED TO THIS STRIKE HERE,
Dialogue: 0,0:22:40.12,0:22:42.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND BASICALLY WHAT THEY TRIED TO DO HERE IS DECAPITATE THE PERSON.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:42.86,0:22:45.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,NOW, WHAT WE'VE SEEN USUALLY IS THAT
Dialogue: 0,0:22:45.36,0:22:48.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THESE PEOPLE WERE NOT VERY KNOWLEDGEABLE OF ANATOMY,
Dialogue: 0,0:22:48.37,0:22:51.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,SO THE DECAPITATIONS, AS YOU'D EXPECT,
Dialogue: 0,0:22:51.04,0:22:54.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WERE NOT ALWAYS SUCCESSFUL, SO YOU HAVE REPEATED BLOWS TO THE HEAD.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:54.37,0:22:56.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,SOMEBODY'S TRYING TO SEPARATE THE HEAD FROM THE BODY.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:56.94,0:23:00.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THEY'RE VERY TYPICAL OF OVERKILL AND SOMETIMES OF EVEN CRIMES OF PASSION.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:00.88,0:23:02.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Goldhagen: "OVERKILL"-- THERE'S A WORD
Dialogue: 0,0:23:02.88,0:23:05.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I DON'T THINK I'LL EVER HEAR THE SAME WAY AGAIN.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:05.95,0:23:08.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,IF THE KILLERS WERE SIMPLY DOING THEIR DUTY
Dialogue: 0,0:23:08.45,0:23:10.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,TO WIPE OUT AN INSURGENCY, AS THEY CLAIM,
Dialogue: 0,0:23:10.96,0:23:14.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THEY WOULD EXECUTE THEIR VICTIMS QUICKLY AND BE DONE WITH IT.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:14.46,0:23:19.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,YOU HAVE TO WONDER WHY WE SEE SO MUCH EVIDENCE OF SUCH MURDEROUS PASSION,
Dialogue: 0,0:23:19.46,0:23:21.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,ESPECIALLY AGAINST WOMEN AND CHILDREN.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:21.97,0:23:24.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THIS IS A CHILD HERE, A VERY YOUNG CHILD.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:24.47,0:23:26.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I WOULDN'T EVEN DARE TO TELL YOU THE AGE
Dialogue: 0,0:23:26.47,0:23:28.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,UNLESS WITH THE ANTHROPOLOGIST WORKING ON THE CASE,
Dialogue: 0,0:23:28.97,0:23:31.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND YOU CAN COMPARE-- THIS IS THE FIRST RIB.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:31.98,0:23:34.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WOW.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:34.98,0:23:37.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,SO...AND IF YOU COMPARE THIS
Dialogue: 0,0:23:37.98,0:23:39.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,TO THAT ONE, YOU CAN SEE THE DIFFERENCE.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:39.98,0:23:42.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I MEAN, THE FIRST RIB IS ABOUT THAT BIG, SO THIS IS A VERY, VERY SMALL--
Dialogue: 0,0:23:42.49,0:23:43.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,MAY I SEE THIS?
Dialogue: 0,0:23:43.99,0:23:46.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,JUST HOLDING THE TINY LITTLE BONE.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:46.49,0:23:50.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,YOU KNOW...
Dialogue: 0,0:23:50.13,0:23:52.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,YEAH. SEE, I DON'T KNOW.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:52.13,0:23:54.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I DON'T THINK THERE'S A--A WAY OF...
Dialogue: 0,0:23:54.63,0:23:56.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,HUMANLY UNDERSTANDING THIS
Dialogue: 0,0:23:56.63,0:24:00.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,BECAUSE IT GOES BEYOND WHAT I BELIEVE HUMANS CAN DO,
Dialogue: 0,0:24:00.07,0:24:02.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,BUT OBVIOUSLY--I MEAN, THE MORE I SAY THAT, THE MORE I TEND TO--
Dialogue: 0,0:24:02.57,0:24:04.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,IT'S HARD FOR ME TO BELIEVE
Dialogue: 0,0:24:04.58,0:24:06.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THAT YOU'RE SAYING THIS, GIVEN WHAT YOU--
Dialogue: 0,0:24:06.58,0:24:10.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,BECAUSE I WANT TO BELIEVE THAT WE'RE NOT CAPABLE OF THESE THINGS,
Dialogue: 0,0:24:10.08,0:24:12.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,EVEN THOUGH-- I WANT TO BELIEVE THAT THIS IS WRONG.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:12.58,0:24:14.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,SO DOING THIS HAS TO BE WRONG.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:14.59,0:24:17.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,IF I ACCEPTED THIS AS RIGHT AND IF I EXCUSE IT,
Dialogue: 0,0:24:17.09,0:24:23.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THEN I CAN'T DO THIS ANYMORE.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:23.03,0:24:26.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,FREDY IS NOT ALONE.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:26.90,0:24:29.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,MOST OF US FIND IT HARD TO COME TO TERMS
Dialogue: 0,0:24:29.53,0:24:33.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WITH THE CAPACITY OF HUMAN BEINGS TO DO SUCH HORRIBLE THINGS TO OTHERS.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:33.54,0:24:36.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,BUT WE HAVE TO MAKE SENSE OF IT.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:36.04,0:24:42.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AS IRRATIONAL AS THEY SEEM, THESE ARE NOT THE ACTS OF CRAZED INDIVIDUALS.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:42.35,0:24:45.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THESE ARE PEOPLE WHO KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING,
Dialogue: 0,0:24:45.35,0:24:49.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,BELIEVE IT'S RIGHT, AND MAKE A CONSCIOUS CHOICE TO ACT.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:49.35,0:24:51.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,UH, HELLO.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:51.36,0:24:51.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,JA.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:51.36,0:24:53.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,ICH BIN DANIEL GOLDHAGEN.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:53.46,0:25:49.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[SPEAKING GERMAN]
Dialogue: 0,0:25:49.05,0:25:54.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Goldhagen: LIKE MOST GERMANS, OTTO-ERNST DUSCHELEIT GREW UP WITH THE WORLD VIEW
Dialogue: 0,0:25:54.05,0:25:57.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,IN WHICH HE SAW HIMSELF AS A MEMBER OF THE MASTER RACE,
Dialogue: 0,0:25:57.89,0:26:02.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WHILE MANY OTHERS FELL INTO THE CATEGORY OF SUB-HUMANS OR UNTERMENSCHEN.
Dialogue: 0,0:26:02.33,0:26:09.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[MEN SINGING IN GERMAN]
Dialogue: 0,0:26:09.53,0:26:11.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Goldhagen: WHEN YOU WERE IN SCHOOL...
Dialogue: 0,0:26:11.54,0:26:11.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,YES?
Dialogue: 0,0:26:11.54,0:26:13.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WHEN YOU WERE IN THE HITLER YOUTH,
Dialogue: 0,0:26:13.44,0:26:15.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WHAT DID YOU LEARN, FOR EXAMPLE, ABOUT UNTERMENSCHEN?
Dialogue: 0,0:26:15.94,0:26:15.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WHAT DID THAT WORD MEAN TO YOU?
Dialogue: 0,0:26:15.94,0:27:36.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,JA, UNTERMENSCHEN.
Dialogue: 0,0:27:36.22,0:27:39.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Goldhagen: IT'S STRIKING THAT IT IS A FORMER SS MAN,
Dialogue: 0,0:27:39.72,0:27:42.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,INVOKING ANNE FRANK, WHO MAKES THIS POINT.
Dialogue: 0,0:27:42.73,0:27:45.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,IT IS AN IMPORTANT ONE.
Dialogue: 0,0:27:45.23,0:27:47.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,IT IS THAT FAILURE TO SEE THE HUMANITY IN OTHERS
Dialogue: 0,0:27:47.73,0:27:53.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WHICH MAKES IT POSSIBLE FOR THE KILLERS TO COMMIT THEIR CRIMES.
Dialogue: 0,0:27:53.00,0:27:55.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I WOULD ADD THAT IT'S THE BELIEF
Dialogue: 0,0:27:55.07,0:27:57.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THAT THOSE OTHERS ARE DANGEROUS ENEMIES
Dialogue: 0,0:27:57.58,0:28:10.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WHICH INSPIRES THE PERPETRATORS TO KILL WITH SUCH ZEAL.
Dialogue: 0,0:28:10.02,0:28:13.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,YEARS AGO, I ENCOUNTERED AN EPISODE OF THE HOLOCAUST
Dialogue: 0,0:28:13.02,0:28:17.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WHICH SPOKE VOLUMES ABOUT THE WILLFULNESS AND DEDICATION OF THE KILLERS,
Dialogue: 0,0:28:17.03,0:28:22.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND I GOT TO KNOW ONE OF THE SURVIVORS, LILLI SILBIGER.
Dialogue: 0,0:28:22.03,0:28:26.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I HAVE A MAP HERE WITH ME WHICH ACTUALLY OUTLINES THE ROUTE
Dialogue: 0,0:28:26.54,0:28:30.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,FROM HELMBRECHT TO VOLARY...
Dialogue: 0,0:28:30.04,0:28:33.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Goldhagen, voice-over: IN THE LAST MONTHS OF WORLD WAR II,
Dialogue: 0,0:28:33.04,0:28:37.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AS THE ALLIED FORCES NEARED THE CONCENTRATION CAMPS HOUSING JEWS AND OTHERS,
Dialogue: 0,0:28:37.55,0:28:40.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,GERMANS EMPTIED THEIR CAMPS AND DROVE THEIR PRISONERS
Dialogue: 0,0:28:40.52,0:28:44.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,ON FORCED MARCHES THROUGH THE NEARBY TOWNS AND COUNTRYSIDE.
Dialogue: 0,0:28:44.52,0:28:46.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[SILBIGER SPEAKING GERMAN]
Dialogue: 0,0:28:46.02,0:28:50.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Goldhagen: THE DEATH MARCHES LEFT A TRAIL OF CORPSES IN THEIR WAKE,
Dialogue: 0,0:28:50.03,0:28:53.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND THE MARCHING PRISONERS WERE DESCRIBED BY MORE THAN ONE WITNESS
Dialogue: 0,0:28:53.53,0:28:56.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AS "THE WALKING DEAD."
Dialogue: 0,0:28:56.10,0:28:59.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THESE ARE ACTUAL PHOTOS OF THE YOUNG WOMEN
Dialogue: 0,0:28:59.10,0:29:13.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WHO WERE WITH LILLI ON THE MARCH.
Dialogue: 0,0:29:13.75,0:29:17.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,ON THE SUMMER DAY LILY REVISITED THE ROUTE OF A DEATH MARCH WITH ME,
Dialogue: 0,0:29:17.76,0:29:20.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THE COUNTRYSIDE WAS BEAUTIFUL.
Dialogue: 0,0:29:20.76,0:29:28.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,BUT IN THE SPRING OF 1945, IT WAS COLD AND BLEAK.
Dialogue: 0,0:29:28.77,0:29:33.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,LILY'S GUARDS ACTUALLY HAD RECEIVED EXPLICIT ORDERS NOT TO KILL ANY MORE JEWS,
Dialogue: 0,0:29:33.77,0:29:37.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,BUT THEY WILLFULLY DEFIED THEIR SUPERIORS.
Dialogue: 0,0:29:37.28,0:29:40.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THEY DROVE HER AND THE OTHERS, STARVING, WEARING NOTHING MORE THAN RAGS,
Dialogue: 0,0:29:40.78,0:29:44.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,DAY AFTER DAY THROUGH THE FRIGID COUNTRYSIDE.
Dialogue: 0,0:29:44.15,0:29:47.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,SOMETIMES WE WOULDN'T EVEN GET FOOD FOR 24 HOURS, FOR 48 HOURS.
Dialogue: 0,0:29:47.85,0:29:50.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,PEOPLE RESORTED TO ANYTHING THAT WAS FOUND
Dialogue: 0,0:29:50.86,0:29:54.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,OR ANYTHING ROTTEN THAT WAS--YOU KNOW, YOU JUST GRABBED AT ANYTHING.
Dialogue: 0,0:29:54.36,0:29:54.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND YOU WERE 16 AT THE TIME?
Dialogue: 0,0:29:54.36,0:29:57.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,YEAH.
Dialogue: 0,0:29:57.36,0:30:01.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND IN ONE PLACE, SOMEONE BROKE INTO A PANTRY
Dialogue: 0,0:30:01.97,0:30:05.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,OR SOMEPLACE WHERE WE ARRIVED AND STOLE SOME LOAFS OF BREAD.
Dialogue: 0,0:30:05.97,0:30:09.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND FOR THAT, THEY SELECTED 50 GIRLS AND KILLED THEM
Dialogue: 0,0:30:09.97,0:30:12.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,OVER THE MASS GRAVE THERE.
Dialogue: 0,0:30:12.48,0:30:16.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WE HAD TO COME BACK AND COVER THEM,
Dialogue: 0,0:30:16.98,0:30:20.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND THERE WERE MANY OF THEM STILL ALIVE WHEN WE HAD TO DO THAT.
Dialogue: 0,0:30:20.98,0:30:23.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,SO THEY--YOU HAD TO HELP BURY THEM ALIVE?
Dialogue: 0,0:30:23.99,0:30:26.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WE HAD TO DO-- WE HAD TO PUT--
Dialogue: 0,0:30:26.49,0:30:29.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,YES, THE EARTH, COVER THEM WITH EARTH.
Dialogue: 0,0:30:29.49,0:30:34.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,SO THIS WAS THE BIGGEST HORRIBLE...
Dialogue: 0,0:30:34.50,0:30:38.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[VOICE CRACKS] YEAH....
Dialogue: 0,0:30:38.50,0:30:41.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,PERIOD.
Dialogue: 0,0:30:41.51,0:30:47.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[DISTANT ROLLING THUNDER]
Dialogue: 0,0:30:47.41,0:30:52.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,ONE OF THE ASTONISHING THINGS IS THAT THEY WERE MARCHING THE JEWISH PRISONERS
Dialogue: 0,0:30:52.42,0:30:55.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,LITERALLY THE LAST DAY OF THE WAR.
Dialogue: 0,0:30:55.39,0:30:58.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,INSTEAD OF RUNNING AWAY TO AVOID CAPTURE, THEY STAYED WITH THE PRISONERS,
Dialogue: 0,0:30:58.39,0:30:58.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THEY CONTINUED TO DENY THEM FOOD...
Dialogue: 0,0:30:58.39,0:31:00.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,ABSOLUTELY.
Dialogue: 0,0:31:00.82,0:31:03.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THEY CONTINUED TO BEAT THEM, THEY CONTINUED TO KILL THEM,
Dialogue: 0,0:31:03.76,0:31:10.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THEY CONTINUED TO DO IT TO THE VERY END.
Dialogue: 0,0:31:10.37,0:31:12.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WE KNEW THE RUSSIANS WERE CLOSING IN THERE,
Dialogue: 0,0:31:12.50,0:31:14.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND THEN WE HEARD ARTILLERY,
Dialogue: 0,0:31:14.50,0:31:17.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,SOME PLANES FLYING OVERHEAD,
Dialogue: 0,0:31:17.34,0:31:19.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,HEARD SOME BOMBINGS IN THE DISTANCE,
Dialogue: 0,0:31:19.34,0:31:23.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,SO WE KNEW THEY WERE VERY CLOSE.
Dialogue: 0,0:31:23.05,0:31:28.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[EXPLOSIONS, GUNFIRE]
Dialogue: 0,0:31:28.55,0:31:33.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THEY MANAGED FOR SUCH A LONG TIME TO KEEP AHEAD OF THE ALLIES,
Dialogue: 0,0:31:33.06,0:31:36.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,GOING NOWHERE, YOU KNOW, TO--A PLACE--TO NOWHERE.
Dialogue: 0,0:31:36.23,0:31:39.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,JUST TO DRAG US, JUST TO...
Dialogue: 0,0:31:39.23,0:31:42.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,JUST GO IN CIRCLES, ACTUALLY. THAT'S WHAT WAS HAPPENING.
Dialogue: 0,0:31:42.23,0:31:45.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THEY DIDN'T KNOW THEMSELVES WHAT THEY WERE DOING.
Dialogue: 0,0:31:45.74,0:31:49.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THEY COULD HAVE EASILY LEFT US WHEREVER WE WERE
Dialogue: 0,0:31:49.74,0:31:52.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND JUST DISAPPEAR, AND THEY DIDN'T.
Dialogue: 0,0:31:52.11,0:31:56.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THEY BELIEVED THE JEWS WERE EVIL INCARNATE, AN ENEMY OF HUMANKIND,
Dialogue: 0,0:31:56.11,0:32:00.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,A THREAT TO THE WELL-BEING AND FUTURE EXISTENCE OF GERMANY.
Dialogue: 0,0:32:00.55,0:32:02.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND IF YOU BELIEVE THAT,
Dialogue: 0,0:32:02.55,0:32:05.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,JUST AS IF YOU BELIEVE SOMEONE'S ABOUT TO ATTACK YOUR CHILD,
Dialogue: 0,0:32:05.62,0:32:09.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,YOU WILL DO ANYTHING YOU CAN.
Dialogue: 0,0:32:09.13,0:32:11.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,YEAH.
Dialogue: 0,0:32:11.26,0:32:13.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[CAR HORN HONKS]
Dialogue: 0,0:32:13.26,0:32:18.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,EACH OF US TRIES TO MAKE SENSE OF THE HORRORS IN HIS OR HER OWN WAY.
Dialogue: 0,0:32:18.27,0:32:22.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,OVER THE YEARS, I HAVE TALKED WITH MANY WHO GRAPPLE OVER THESE ISSUES,
Dialogue: 0,0:32:22.81,0:32:26.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,BUT NEVER ONE MORE THOUGHTFUL THAN A MAN I MET IN RWANDA--
Dialogue: 0,0:32:26.31,0:32:30.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THARCISSE KARUGARAMA, THE COUNTRY'S MINISTER OF JUSTICE.
Dialogue: 0,0:32:30.31,0:32:32.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Goldhagen: HERE WE'RE SPEAKING NOW AS TWO PEOPLE TRYING
Dialogue: 0,0:32:32.82,0:32:35.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,TO UNDERSTAND A VERY DIFFICULT SET OF CIRCUMSTANCES:
Dialogue: 0,0:32:35.32,0:32:37.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THE WAYS IN WHICH VICTIMS WERE NOT JUST KILLED
Dialogue: 0,0:32:37.92,0:32:41.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,IN, IF WE CAN CALL IT, THE LEAST PAINFUL WAY,
Dialogue: 0,0:32:41.42,0:32:44.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,BUT WERE HACKED TO DEATH, WERE TORTURED;
Dialogue: 0,0:32:44.93,0:32:48.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THE ZEAL AND PASSION WITH WHICH THE PERPETRATORS SOUGHT OUT THE VICTIMS.
Dialogue: 0,0:32:48.80,0:32:51.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,IT'S NOT EASY TO FIND PEOPLE HIDING IN THE COUNTRYSIDE.
Dialogue: 0,0:32:51.54,0:32:54.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,MASS HYSTERIA...
Dialogue: 0,0:32:54.54,0:33:00.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,IS VERY DIFFICULT TO EXPLAIN.
Dialogue: 0,0:33:00.98,0:33:05.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,PEOPLE HIT A PERIOD WHEN THEY'RE INVOLVED IN MASS HYSTERIA,
Dialogue: 0,0:33:05.05,0:33:08.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WHEN THEY CAN NO LONGER BE ACCOUNTABLE FOR THEIR ACTIONS.
Dialogue: 0,0:33:08.52,0:33:11.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,BUT YOU CERTAINLY DON'T WANT TO TAKE THAT AS A LEGAL POSITION, DO YOU?
Dialogue: 0,0:33:11.19,0:33:14.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,NO, DEFINITELY NOT. DEFINITELY NOT.
Dialogue: 0,0:33:14.19,0:33:17.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'M JUST TRYING TO EXPLAIN BECAUSE I'VE BEEN AROUND
Dialogue: 0,0:33:17.70,0:33:20.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,IN THIS JUDICIAL FOR SOME TIME NOW,
Dialogue: 0,0:33:20.70,0:33:26.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND I'VE MADE ALL SORTS OF CONTRADICTIONS.
Dialogue: 0,0:33:26.04,0:33:29.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,SO THE ONE YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT IS A MAJOR CONTRADICTION.
Dialogue: 0,0:33:29.04,0:33:36.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THE BRUTALITY WITH WHICH THEY DID THE KILLING IS SHOCKING.
Dialogue: 0,0:33:36.05,0:33:40.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WHAT...ONCE PEOPLE HAD STEPPED BEYOND
Dialogue: 0,0:33:40.05,0:33:44.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THE FIRST STEP OF ACTUALLY KILLING--
Dialogue: 0,0:33:44.06,0:33:47.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THROWING A CHILD DOWN AND HACKING THEM TO DEATH,
Dialogue: 0,0:33:47.06,0:33:50.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,OPENING THE WOMB OF PREGNANT--
Dialogue: 0,0:33:50.06,0:33:52.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THERE'S NOTHING THAT WAS IF--THAT HE COULDN'T DO
Dialogue: 0,0:33:52.56,0:33:56.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,BECAUSE THEY WERE BEING TOLD BY THE PETITIONS
Dialogue: 0,0:33:56.57,0:33:59.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WHO WERE GIVING THEM THE ALCOHOL
Dialogue: 0,0:33:59.07,0:34:02.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THAT "IF YOU DON'T DESTROY THESE PEOPLE, THESE ANIMALS, THESE--
Dialogue: 0,0:34:02.51,0:34:07.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THEY'RE COMING TO FINISH YOU. NONE OF YOU WILL SURVIVE."
Dialogue: 0,0:34:07.08,0:34:10.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND THEY HAD BEEN MADE TO BELIEVE IT.
Dialogue: 0,0:34:10.58,0:34:13.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I DON'T WANT TO BE A--TO GIVE AN EXCUSE FOR THEM.
Dialogue: 0,0:34:13.58,0:34:17.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THEY ARE WILLING KILLERS. THERE'S NO DOUBT IN MY MIND.
Dialogue: 0,0:34:17.09,0:34:20.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,BUT, SEE, AT THE BACK OF THEIR MIND, THE RADIO IS TELLING THEM,
Dialogue: 0,0:34:20.59,0:34:22.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"THEY'RE COMING TO FINISH YOU.
Dialogue: 0,0:34:22.09,0:34:25.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"IF YOU DON'T KILL THEM YOURSELVES, THEIR PLAN...
Dialogue: 0,0:34:25.60,0:34:34.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,IS TO FINISH YOU."
Dialogue: 0,0:34:34.74,0:34:37.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Goldhagen: IN MASSACHUSETTS, I LIVE JUST A FEW MILES
Dialogue: 0,0:34:37.74,0:34:40.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,FROM A LARGE COMMUNITY OF CAMBODIAN AMERICANS.
Dialogue: 0,0:34:40.74,0:34:44.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,MANY OF THEM ARE SURVIVORS OF THE GENOCIDE THAT TOOK THE LIVES
Dialogue: 0,0:34:44.25,0:34:49.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,OF 20% OF CAMBODIA'S POPULATION DURING THE 1970s--
Dialogue: 0,0:34:49.25,0:34:51.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,ONE IN 5 CAMBODIANS.
Dialogue: 0,0:34:51.62,0:34:53.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[MEN SINGING IN NATIVE LANGUAGE]
Dialogue: 0,0:34:53.62,0:35:03.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Goldhagen: IT IS A CHILLING STATISTIC.
Dialogue: 0,0:35:03.07,0:35:05.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,IN THE SPRING OF 1975,
Dialogue: 0,0:35:05.57,0:35:10.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,A COMMUNIST REBEL GROUP, THE KHMER ROUGE, CONQUERED THE COUNTRY.
Dialogue: 0,0:35:10.07,0:35:14.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THEY WANTED TO TURN CAMBODIA INTO A MARXIST AGRARIAN UTOPIA,
Dialogue: 0,0:35:14.08,0:35:19.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WHICH, TO THEM, MEANT DESTROYING VIRTUALLY ALL VESTIGES OF MODERN CIVILIZATION.
Dialogue: 0,0:35:19.08,0:35:21.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Man: FIRST DAY WHEN THEY MARCH INTO THE CITY,
Dialogue: 0,0:35:21.58,0:35:24.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND WE'RE SO HAPPY THAT THE WAR IS ENDED.
Dialogue: 0,0:35:24.59,0:35:28.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WE WERE JOYFUL AND WE SAW THE SOLDIER CAME, THE PEACE COME,
Dialogue: 0,0:35:28.59,0:35:31.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND NO MORE FIGHTING, NO MORE WAR,
Dialogue: 0,0:35:31.60,0:35:35.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND THEN SUDDENLY EVERYTHING JUST DISAPPEARED.
Dialogue: 0,0:35:35.77,0:35:41.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I SAW A LOT OF SOLDIERS IN BLACK UNIFORMS CLOSE TO MY HOME.
Dialogue: 0,0:35:41.07,0:35:43.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[WHISTLE BLOWS]
Dialogue: 0,0:35:43.57,0:35:46.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THESE SOLDIERS SPRAYED EVERYWHERE, SHOOTING GUNS IN THE AIR
Dialogue: 0,0:35:46.74,0:35:49.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND ASK, "LET'S GO, LET'S GO."
Dialogue: 0,0:35:49.68,0:35:55.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[DISTANT MACHINE GUNFIRE]
Dialogue: 0,0:35:55.12,0:36:00.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Goldhagen: WITHIN 3 DAYS, KHMER ROUGE CADRES EMPTIED CAMBODIA'S CITIES,
Dialogue: 0,0:36:00.06,0:36:04.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,FORCING MILLIONS INTO THE RURAL CAMPS THEY CALLED COOPERATIVES,
Dialogue: 0,0:36:04.56,0:36:11.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,BUT WHICH CAME TO BE KNOWN TO THE OUTSIDE WORLD AS THE KILLING FIELDS.
Dialogue: 0,0:36:11.14,0:36:14.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Uong: THINK OVER TWO MILE PER DAY, 3 MILE PER DAY
Dialogue: 0,0:36:14.14,0:36:17.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THAT WE COULDN'T MOVE BECAUSE OF SO MANY PEOPLE.
Dialogue: 0,0:36:17.14,0:36:20.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND ALONG THE ROAD ARE BODIES ALONG THE ROAD EVERYWHERE.
Dialogue: 0,0:36:20.14,0:36:26.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THEY JUST-- THE SCENE IS JUST AWFUL.
Dialogue: 0,0:36:26.25,0:36:30.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Goldhagen: THE EXTENT OF THEIR VIOLENT TRANSFORMATION OF CAMBODIAN SOCIETY
Dialogue: 0,0:36:30.25,0:36:34.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,STILL BOGGLES THE MIND.
Dialogue: 0,0:36:34.76,0:36:39.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND IT WAS ALL BEGUN BY ONE MAN, KNOWN AS POL POT,
Dialogue: 0,0:36:39.76,0:36:44.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,SUPPORTED BY A SMALL INNER CIRCLE.
Dialogue: 0,0:36:44.27,0:36:47.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,GENOCIDE IS ALWAYS THE DECISION OF ONE LEADER
Dialogue: 0,0:36:47.77,0:36:50.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,OR A SMALL GROUP OF LEADERS.
Dialogue: 0,0:36:50.27,0:36:53.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THESE INDIVIDUALS MAKE A CHOICE TO INITIATE THE KILLING,
Dialogue: 0,0:36:53.78,0:36:58.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WHICH, IN EVERY CASE, MEANS THEY COULD HAVE ALSO CHOSEN NOT TO.
Dialogue: 0,0:36:58.28,0:37:04.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THE LEADERS' GOALS VARY, DEPENDING ON THE TIME, PLACE, AND CIRCUMSTANCES:
Dialogue: 0,0:37:04.15,0:37:09.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,POL POT WANTED TO RADICALLY TRANSFORM CAMBODIAN SOCIETY;
Dialogue: 0,0:37:09.89,0:37:15.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THE TURKISH LEADER MEHMED TALAAT WANTED TO SECURE TURKEY'S DECAYING EMPIRE;
Dialogue: 0,0:37:15.63,0:37:20.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,ADOLF HITLER WANTED TO CREATE A VAST POLITICAL EMPIRE
Dialogue: 0,0:37:20.14,0:37:23.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,RULED BY THE GERMAN MASTER RACE;
Dialogue: 0,0:37:23.04,0:37:26.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,COLONEL THEONISTE BAGOSORA AND HIS FELLOW HUTU LEADERS
Dialogue: 0,0:37:26.54,0:37:31.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WANTED TO SECURE POLITICAL POWER IN RWANDA FOR THE HUTU;
Dialogue: 0,0:37:31.12,0:37:33.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND IN THE BALKANS,
Dialogue: 0,0:37:33.12,0:37:38.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,SLOBODAN MILOSEVIC WANTED TO PERMANENTLY REDRAW THE POLITICAL MAP OF THE REGION.
Dialogue: 0,0:37:38.49,0:37:41.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,GENOCIDE IS ALWAYS POLITICS.
Dialogue: 0,0:37:41.09,0:37:43.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,OF COURSE, THERE ARE POLITICAL GOALS.
Dialogue: 0,0:37:43.63,0:37:46.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THOSE POLITICAL GOALS CAN BE REACHED IN DIFFERENT WAYS.
Dialogue: 0,0:37:46.63,0:37:51.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,SOME PEOPLE THINK THAT EXTERMINATING A GROUP WILL HELP THEIR GOALS,
Dialogue: 0,0:37:51.57,0:37:53.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,SO THAT'S WHY THEY DO IT.
Dialogue: 0,0:37:53.60,0:37:56.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,SLOBODAN MILOSEVIC THOUGHT AT THAT TIME,
Dialogue: 0,0:37:56.91,0:38:01.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THAT HE COULD, BECAUSE OF THE OVERWHELMING MILITARY POWER,
Dialogue: 0,0:38:01.34,0:38:18.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,MAKE SOME TERRITORIAL GAINS IN CROATIA AND BOSNIA, SO HE ATTACKED.
Dialogue: 0,0:38:18.83,0:38:21.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[MEN SPEAKING INDISTINCTLY]
Dialogue: 0,0:38:21.83,0:38:24.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Silajdzic: THE FULFILLING OF THEIR MISSION...
Dialogue: 0,0:38:24.37,0:38:26.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[EXPLOSION]
Dialogue: 0,0:38:26.37,0:38:30.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WAS...TO MAKE A GREATER SERBIA.
Dialogue: 0,0:38:30.37,0:38:32.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,IN ORDER TO MAKE GREATER SERBIA,
Dialogue: 0,0:38:32.88,0:38:37.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,YOU HAD TO EXTERMINATE PEOPLE IN YOUR WAY.
Dialogue: 0,0:38:37.61,0:38:40.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Man: SERBIA'S RIGHT THERE ACROSS THE DRINA RIVER,
Dialogue: 0,0:38:40.12,0:38:45.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND LOTS OF SERB-CONTROLLED TERRITORY IN THE CENTRAL PART OF THE COUNTRY,
Dialogue: 0,0:38:45.12,0:38:48.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THEY WANTED TO LINK THOSE TWO ZONES, RIGHT?
Dialogue: 0,0:38:48.36,0:38:52.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,BUT IF YOU HAD LARGE-- A SIGNIFICANT NUMBER OF MUSLIMS
Dialogue: 0,0:38:52.86,0:38:56.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,ALONG THE WESTERN BANKS OF THAT RIVER,
Dialogue: 0,0:38:56.87,0:39:01.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,YOU HAD A KIND OF BARRIER BETWEEN THOSE TWO SERBIAN AREAS,
Dialogue: 0,0:39:01.30,0:39:03.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,SO THESE PEOPLE HAD TO BE ELIMINATED.
Dialogue: 0,0:39:03.31,0:39:05.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Silajdzic: THESE THINGS ARE DONE IN COLD BLOOD.
Dialogue: 0,0:39:05.88,0:39:08.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THIS IS A DESIGN. THIS IS A PLAN.
Dialogue: 0,0:39:08.88,0:39:10.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THIS IS A CALCULATION, OF COURSE.
Dialogue: 0,0:39:10.88,0:39:13.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THIS IS NOT A REACTION TO SOMETHING.
Dialogue: 0,0:39:13.72,0:39:18.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THIS IS--THIS, UNFORTUNATELY, HERE IS A PLANNED GENOCIDE,
Dialogue: 0,0:39:18.72,0:39:21.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AS IS ANY OTHER GENOCIDE
Dialogue: 0,0:39:21.22,0:39:24.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,BECAUSE IT'S NOT POSSIBLE TO KILL A BIG NUMBER OF PEOPLE
Dialogue: 0,0:39:24.73,0:39:27.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WITHOUT PRIOR PREPARATION:
Dialogue: 0,0:39:27.73,0:39:29.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,MENTAL PREPARATION,
Dialogue: 0,0:39:29.73,0:39:32.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,INTELLECTUAL PREPARATION,
Dialogue: 0,0:39:32.24,0:39:34.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,MILITARY PREPARATION.
Dialogue: 0,0:39:34.74,0:39:37.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Goldhagen: PRESIDENT SILAJDZIC IS RIGHT.
Dialogue: 0,0:39:37.74,0:39:41.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THERE'S A MISCONCEPTION THAT GENOCIDES ERUPT SPONTANEOUSLY
Dialogue: 0,0:39:41.74,0:39:44.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,OUT OF DEEP-SEATED PASSIONS OR ETHNIC CONFLICTS.
Dialogue: 0,0:39:44.78,0:39:51.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,BUT THERE IS NOTHING SPONTANEOUS ABOUT GENOCIDE.
Dialogue: 0,0:39:51.09,0:39:53.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,IN THIS VILLA IN THE SUBURBS OF BERLIN,
Dialogue: 0,0:39:53.59,0:39:56.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THE NAZI LEADERSHIP DISCUSSED THEIR DETAILED PLANS
Dialogue: 0,0:39:56.59,0:40:01.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,TO EXTERMINATE THE JEWS OF EUROPE.
Dialogue: 0,0:40:01.10,0:40:04.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THESE TYPEWRITTEN MINUTES DOCUMENT THE MEETING
Dialogue: 0,0:40:04.10,0:40:09.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND LIST COUNTRY BY COUNTRY THE 11 MILLION JEWS THEY PLAN TO KILL.
Dialogue: 0,0:40:09.61,0:40:12.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,ONE OF THOSE WAS ERICH GOLDHAGEN,
Dialogue: 0,0:40:12.61,0:40:16.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THE 10-YEAR-OLD BOY IN WHAT WAS THEN ROMANIA, NOW UKRAINE,
Dialogue: 0,0:40:16.61,0:40:19.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WHO WOULD GROW UP TO BECOME MY FATHER.
Dialogue: 0,0:40:19.22,0:40:22.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THE NAZI VICTORY WOULD HAVE BEEN TANTAMOUNT, EVEN WORSE,
Dialogue: 0,0:40:22.22,0:40:24.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THAN--IT WOULD BE LIKE A NUCLEAR WAR, ALMOST.
Dialogue: 0,0:40:24.72,0:40:24.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THE DESTRUCTION WOULD BE...
Dialogue: 0,0:40:24.72,0:40:26.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,MM-HMM.
Dialogue: 0,0:40:26.72,0:40:31.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,IT IS PERHAPS EASIER TO RECOVER FROM A NUCLEAR ASSAULT
Dialogue: 0,0:40:31.23,0:40:34.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THAN IT WOULD BE FROM A NAZI VICTORY.
Dialogue: 0,0:40:34.80,0:40:38.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Goldhagen: I'VE ASKED HIM TO JOIN ME ON PART OF MY JOURNEY
Dialogue: 0,0:40:38.30,0:40:41.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,TO RETURN TO WHERE HE LIVED DURING THE HOLOCAUST.
Dialogue: 0,0:40:41.30,0:40:41.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,SO HAVE YOU TALKED TO MOM ABOUT OUR TRIP TO CZERNOWITZ?
Dialogue: 0,0:40:41.30,0:40:44.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,YES.
Dialogue: 0,0:40:44.31,0:40:47.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,SHE IS VERY ENTHUSIASTIC ABOUT IT. SHE ENCOURAGES ME TO GO.
Dialogue: 0,0:40:47.31,0:40:50.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,YOU KNOW, MOM IS ALWAYS SOMEONE IN BELIEVING--
Dialogue: 0,0:40:50.81,0:40:55.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,SHE BELIEVES THAT THE PAST HAS TO BE PRESERVED AND REMEMBERED,
Dialogue: 0,0:40:55.82,0:41:02.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND SHE HAS HELPED ME OVERCOME MY NATURAL RELUCTANCE TO GO.
Dialogue: 0,0:41:02.76,0:41:05.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,YOU KNOW, WHEN I TOLD HER THAT SHE HAD TO WORK ON YOU,
Dialogue: 0,0:41:05.26,0:41:08.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,SHE SAID SHE NEVER WORKS ON YOU. HA HA!
Dialogue: 0,0:41:08.26,0:41:10.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,BUT I KNEW I HAD AN ALLY.
Dialogue: 0,0:41:10.77,0:41:14.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,IN A VERY SUBTLE WAY, YOU KNOW, SHE WORKS ON ME.
Dialogue: 0,0:41:14.04,0:41:16.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS TO ENVISION
Dialogue: 0,0:41:16.54,0:41:20.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WHAT WOULD HAVE HAPPENED IF HITLER HAD WON THE WAR.
Dialogue: 0,0:41:20.04,0:41:23.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THERE WOULD BE MASS GRAVES EVERYWHERE, VAST CONCENTRATION CAMPS,
Dialogue: 0,0:41:23.55,0:41:27.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND WHAT I CALL IN GREEK A NECROPOLIS, A CITY OF DEATH.
Dialogue: 0,0:41:27.55,0:41:31.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND EVEN GERMANY ITSELF WOULD HAVE BEEN TRANSFORMED,
Dialogue: 0,0:41:31.05,0:41:33.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,BUT MOST GERMANS UNDERSTAND THIS,
Dialogue: 0,0:41:33.56,0:41:35.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THAT HITLER WOULD HAVE DONE TO GERMANY THINGS
Dialogue: 0,0:41:35.56,0:41:38.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WHICH EVEN THE WORST ENEMY OF GERMANY WOULDN'T HAVE DONE.
Dialogue: 0,0:41:38.06,0:41:42.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,HE WOULD HAVE DESTROYED THE CHRISTIAN CHURCHES, DESTROYED THE CHURCHES,
Dialogue: 0,0:41:42.06,0:41:46.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,KILLED THE INSANE, AND ABOVE ALL, AND THIS IS THE IMPORTANT POINT,
Dialogue: 0,0:41:46.04,0:42:08.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,HE WOULD HAVE CONVERTED THE YOUNGER GENERATION INTO A RACE OF BARBARIANS.
Dialogue: 0,0:42:08.82,0:42:12.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Goldhagen: THERE IS A WIDELY HELD MISCONCEPTION
Dialogue: 0,0:42:12.33,0:42:15.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THAT THE GERMANS' EFFICIENCY AND TECHNOLOGY--
Dialogue: 0,0:42:15.06,0:42:17.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THE TRAINS AND THE GAS CHAMBERS--
Dialogue: 0,0:42:17.07,0:42:21.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,MADE IT POSSIBLE FOR THEM TO KILL SO MANY SO QUICKLY.
Dialogue: 0,0:42:21.50,0:42:24.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AS WE'VE SEEN IN RWANDA AND ELSEWHERE,
Dialogue: 0,0:42:24.51,0:42:28.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,LEADERS DO NOT NEED SOPHISTICATED TECHNOLOGY TO KILL ON A VAST SCALE.
Dialogue: 0,0:42:28.68,0:42:30.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[MEN SHOUTING IN NATIVE LANGUAGE]
Dialogue: 0,0:42:30.91,0:42:34.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,IT IS THE WILL, AND NOT THE WAY,
Dialogue: 0,0:42:34.08,0:42:36.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THAT IS CRITICAL.
Dialogue: 0,0:42:36.19,0:42:37.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[MEN SINGING]
Dialogue: 0,0:42:37.69,0:42:42.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,IN RWANDA, THE HUTU LEADERS DID WHAT ALL GENOCIDAL LEADERS DO.
Dialogue: 0,0:42:42.19,0:42:47.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THEY TAPPED INTO THE PREJUDICES AND BELIEFS THAT PEOPLE ALREADY HELD.
Dialogue: 0,0:42:47.20,0:42:50.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,GENERATIONS OF HUTU HAD GROWN UP BEING TAUGHT
Dialogue: 0,0:42:50.03,0:43:18.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THAT THE TUTSI ARE DANGEROUS AND INHUMAN.
Dialogue: 0,0:43:18.23,0:43:20.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[RADIO STATIC]
Dialogue: 0,0:43:20.23,0:43:43.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[MAN SPEAKING NATIVE LANGUAGE]
Dialogue: 0,0:43:43.25,0:43:49.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[MEN SINGING IN NATIVE LANGUAGE]
Dialogue: 0,0:43:49.99,0:44:48.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Goldhagen: IT WAS EASY TO MOBILIZE HUTU FOR THE KILLING.
Dialogue: 0,0:44:48.38,0:44:55.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[MAN SHOUTS IN BOSNIAN]
Dialogue: 0,0:44:55.42,0:45:00.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Silajdzic: IN BOSNIA, THERE WAS DELIBERATELY A PARANOID CULTURE
Dialogue: 0,0:45:00.36,0:45:03.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,CREATED PRIOR TO THE WAR,
Dialogue: 0,0:45:03.87,0:45:06.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,ABOUT 5 OR 6, 7 YEARS.
Dialogue: 0,0:45:06.44,0:45:12.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THERE WAS A PROPAGANDA OF...
Dialogue: 0,0:45:12.44,0:45:15.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THE SERBS BEING THREATENED BY EVERYBODY ELSE.
Dialogue: 0,0:45:15.85,0:45:19.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND I KNOW PEOPLE WHO, BECAUSE OF THIS PROPAGANDA,
Dialogue: 0,0:45:19.18,0:45:21.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,GOOD PEOPLE, WHO GENUINELY BELIEVED
Dialogue: 0,0:45:21.68,0:45:25.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THAT THEY ARE SOMEHOW THREATENED, SO THEY HAVE TO ATTACK
Dialogue: 0,0:45:25.26,0:45:27.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,IN ORDER TO DEFEND THEMSELVES.
Dialogue: 0,0:45:27.76,0:45:30.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[CROWD CHANTS]
Dialogue: 0,0:45:30.26,0:45:32.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Goldhagen: AS HUTU LEADERS DID IN RWANDA,
Dialogue: 0,0:45:32.76,0:45:35.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THE SERB LEADER, SLOBODAN MILOSEVIC,
Dialogue: 0,0:45:35.26,0:45:38.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,PLAYED ON BELIEFS HIS FOLLOWERS ALREADY HELD.
Dialogue: 0,0:45:38.10,0:45:42.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,HIS RALLYING CRY WAS ONE THAT MOST SERBS WOULD EASILY EMBRACE:
Dialogue: 0,0:45:42.61,0:45:45.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,UNDER HIS LEADERSHIP, SERBS WOULD RECLAIM THE LAND
Dialogue: 0,0:45:45.61,0:45:47.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THAT THEY BELIEVED WERE HISTORICALLY THEIRS,
Dialogue: 0,0:45:47.88,0:45:52.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,INCLUDING THE PREDOMINANTLY MUSLIM COUNTRY OF BOSNIA HERZEGOVINA.
Dialogue: 0,0:45:52.38,0:45:56.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,HE EXPLOITED CENTURIES-OLD ANIMOSITIES TOWARD MUSLIMS,
Dialogue: 0,0:45:56.39,0:45:59.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WHOM THE CHRISTIAN SERBS SAW AS THEIR ETERNAL ENEMIES.
Dialogue: 0,0:45:59.89,0:46:02.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WHAT THEY'RE BEING TOLD ABOUT BOSNIA'S--
Dialogue: 0,0:46:02.83,0:46:05.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,ABOUT MUSLIMS, THEY ARE A THREAT TO THEM.
Dialogue: 0,0:46:05.16,0:46:07.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WHY DOES THIS MAKE SENSE TO THEM?
Dialogue: 0,0:46:07.06,0:46:10.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,BECAUSE IT'S IN HARMONY WITH THE NATIONALIST MYTH
Dialogue: 0,0:46:10.57,0:46:14.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THAT MANY OF THEM HAVE BEEN FED FOR GENERATIONS,
Dialogue: 0,0:46:14.14,0:46:17.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND THE LABELINGS OF THE VICTIMS
Dialogue: 0,0:46:17.67,0:46:24.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THAT THEY VIOLATED DURING THIS ACTIVITY FIT THAT MYTH.
Dialogue: 0,0:46:24.61,0:46:27.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[CROWD CHANTING]
Dialogue: 0,0:46:27.12,0:46:32.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Goldhagen: WHEN THOSE HARBORING POWERFUL HATREDS FINALLY ARE GIVEN THE CHANCE TO KILL,
Dialogue: 0,0:46:32.12,0:46:43.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THEIR EUPHORIA IS UNMISTAKABLE.
Dialogue: 0,0:46:43.83,0:47:23.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[WHISTLE BLOWING]
Dialogue: 0,0:47:23.87,0:47:27.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Goldhagen: IN BOSNIA, THE SERBS' PLAN WAS COMPREHENSIVE.
Dialogue: 0,0:47:27.38,0:47:30.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,IT WAS DESCRIBED WIDELY AS ETHNIC CLEANSING,
Dialogue: 0,0:47:30.88,0:47:34.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,A EUPHEMISM THAT TRIVIALIZES THEIR BRUTAL ACTS.
Dialogue: 0,0:47:34.38,0:47:36.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THEY ROUNDED UP MUSLIM MEN
Dialogue: 0,0:47:36.89,0:47:42.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND PUT THEM IN CONCENTRATION CAMPS OR MURDERED THEM OUTRIGHT.
Dialogue: 0,0:47:42.53,0:47:44.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THEY EXPELLED FAMILIES FROM THEIR HOMES
Dialogue: 0,0:47:44.86,0:47:56.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND FROM REGIONS WHICH THEY WANTED EXCLUSIVELY FOR SERBS.
Dialogue: 0,0:47:56.21,0:47:59.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND IN THE CAPITAL CITY, SARAJEVO,
Dialogue: 0,0:47:59.21,0:48:07.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THEY ATTACKED THE CIVILIAN POPULATION FROM THE SURROUNDING HILLS.
Dialogue: 0,0:48:07.02,0:48:08.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[GUNFIRE]
Dialogue: 0,0:48:08.52,0:48:10.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[EXPLOSION]
Dialogue: 0,0:48:10.22,0:48:12.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[SIREN]
Dialogue: 0,0:48:12.22,0:48:16.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Man: THE BOSNIAN SERBS FIRED 12 MORTAR AND ARTILLERY ROUNDS LAST NIGHT
Dialogue: 0,0:48:16.86,0:48:19.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,INTO A PART OF THE CITY CROWDED WITH YOUNG PEOPLE.
Dialogue: 0,0:48:19.06,0:48:20.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[GUNFIRE]
Dialogue: 0,0:48:20.56,0:48:23.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Sudetic: THE SNIPING ACTIVITY HERE WAS NOTORIOUS.
Dialogue: 0,0:48:23.53,0:48:26.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,PEOPLE WALKING DOWN THE STREET WERE HUNTED LIKE ANIMALS.
Dialogue: 0,0:48:26.54,0:48:28.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,SO WHAT WOULD HAVE HAPPENED TO US IF WE HAD BEEN HERE?
Dialogue: 0,0:48:28.54,0:48:30.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WE WOULD HAVE BEEN SHOT FROM THOSE BUILDINGS OVER THERE.
Dialogue: 0,0:48:30.54,0:48:30.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THAT FAR AWAY? I MEAN, THE ROOF--
Dialogue: 0,0:48:30.54,0:48:32.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,NO, THAT'S NOT FAR AT ALL.
Dialogue: 0,0:48:32.54,0:48:34.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I MEAN, A SNIPER COULD HAVE HIT US RIGHT HERE?
Dialogue: 0,0:48:34.54,0:48:36.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,OH, YEAH, YEAH. DEFINITELY.
Dialogue: 0,0:48:36.55,0:48:39.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,IT'S NOT A HARD SHOT FROM--
Dialogue: 0,0:48:39.05,0:48:41.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,FOR A TRAINED SNIPER.
Dialogue: 0,0:48:41.05,0:48:43.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND THESE WERE TRAINED PEOPLE. THEY WERE NOT, UH,
Dialogue: 0,0:48:43.25,0:48:45.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THEY WERE NOT YAHOOS WITH 12-GAUGES.
Dialogue: 0,0:48:45.79,0:48:47.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[GUNSHOT]
Dialogue: 0,0:48:47.29,0:48:49.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THESE WERE HIGH-POWERED HUNTING RIFLES.
Dialogue: 0,0:48:49.29,0:48:51.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THEY USED HIGH-POWERED SNIPER RIFLES
Dialogue: 0,0:48:51.43,0:48:55.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WITH VERY SOPHISTICATED SIGHT EQUIPMENT ON THEM.
Dialogue: 0,0:48:55.93,0:48:55.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND IT'S--
Dialogue: 0,0:48:55.93,0:48:58.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,YOU'D BE BANGED WITH A HEAD SHOT.
Dialogue: 0,0:48:58.47,0:48:59.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[GUNSHOT]
Dialogue: 0,0:48:59.94,0:49:01.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,YOU COULD WALK ACROSS THIS STREET
Dialogue: 0,0:49:01.87,0:49:04.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,IN BROAD DAYLIGHT AND NOTHING WOULD HAPPEN, BUT THEN--
Dialogue: 0,0:49:04.31,0:49:07.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[MACHINE GUNFIRE]
Dialogue: 0,0:49:07.64,0:49:09.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,LIKE BAGGING PREY.
Dialogue: 0,0:49:09.14,0:49:10.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WERE THEY JUST AS LIKELY TO SHOOT WOMEN?
Dialogue: 0,0:49:10.65,0:49:10.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,YES.
Dialogue: 0,0:49:10.65,0:49:10.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND CHILDREN?
Dialogue: 0,0:49:10.65,0:49:12.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,YEAH.
Dialogue: 0,0:49:12.15,0:49:12.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,SO IT HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH YOU BEING A SOLDIER, PER SE.
Dialogue: 0,0:49:12.15,0:49:14.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,NO.
Dialogue: 0,0:49:14.65,0:49:16.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,SO WHAT WAS-- I MEAN, WHAT WAS THE FUNCTION?
Dialogue: 0,0:49:16.65,0:49:16.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I MEAN, WHY WERE THEY
Dialogue: 0,0:49:16.65,0:49:18.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,DOING THIS? TERROR.
Dialogue: 0,0:49:18.59,0:49:21.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[EXPLOSION, GUNFIRE]
Dialogue: 0,0:49:21.12,0:49:21.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,GET RID OF THE MUSLIMS.
Dialogue: 0,0:49:21.12,0:49:23.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,YEAH.
Dialogue: 0,0:49:23.13,0:49:25.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND SO TERRORIZE THEM,
Dialogue: 0,0:49:25.13,0:49:25.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,KILL AS MANY AS POSSIBLE--
Dialogue: 0,0:49:25.13,0:49:27.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,YES.
Dialogue: 0,0:49:27.13,0:49:31.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,PUSH AS MANY OF THEM INTO AS SMALL AN AREA AS POSSIBLE SO THEY COULD TAKE THE REST.
Dialogue: 0,0:49:31.03,0:49:34.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THEY KNEW EVERYTHING. THEY PREPARE EVERYTHING.
Dialogue: 0,0:49:34.04,0:49:37.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,IT WAS REALLY ACTUALLY PLANNED AND SYSTEMATIC.
Dialogue: 0,0:49:37.54,0:49:40.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,ACTUALLY SYSTEMATICALLY PLANNED, THE WAR,
Dialogue: 0,0:49:40.04,0:49:44.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,OF ACTUALLY ESTABLISHING CONCENTRATION CAMPS,
Dialogue: 0,0:49:44.05,0:49:48.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,KILLING, RAPING, EVERYTHING.
Dialogue: 0,0:49:48.55,0:49:51.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,RAPING'S ONE OF THE WORST CRIMES.
Dialogue: 0,0:49:51.05,0:49:55.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,IT NOT ONLY HUMILIATES THE PERSON,
Dialogue: 0,0:49:55.06,0:49:55.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,IT DESTROYS THE FAMILY.
Dialogue: 0,0:49:55.06,0:49:57.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,MM-HMM.
Dialogue: 0,0:49:57.06,0:50:01.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THERE IS SO MANY CASES OF UNWANTED CHILDREN.
Dialogue: 0,0:50:01.56,0:50:05.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THE MOTHER DOESN'T RECOGNIZE HER SON OR DAUGHTER
Dialogue: 0,0:50:05.37,0:50:08.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THAT CAME FROM THESE RAPINGS.
Dialogue: 0,0:50:08.87,0:50:12.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Goldhagen: THE SERBS' WIDESPREAD RAPING OF BOSNIAN WOMEN
Dialogue: 0,0:50:12.38,0:50:14.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WAS NOT THE KIND OF THING, AS MANY THINK,
Dialogue: 0,0:50:14.88,0:50:16.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THAT HAPPENS INEVITABLY IN WAR ZONES.
Dialogue: 0,0:50:16.88,0:50:20.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Muratcaus: THEY DID NOTHING, ACTUALLY...
Dialogue: 0,0:50:20.38,0:50:22.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Goldhagen, voice-over: LIKE KILLING,
Dialogue: 0,0:50:22.38,0:50:26.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THE SERBS USE RAPE AND RAPE CAMPS AS AN INTEGRAL COMPONENT
Dialogue: 0,0:50:26.39,0:50:29.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,OF THEIR CAMPAIGN TO RID THE COUNTRY OF ITS MUSLIM POPULATION.
Dialogue: 0,0:50:29.89,0:50:34.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Muratcaus: WE WILL NEVER FIND OUT HOW MANY WOMEN WERE RAPED
Dialogue: 0,0:50:34.86,0:50:37.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,ALL OVER BOSNIA.
Dialogue: 0,0:50:37.00,0:50:40.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THEY ACTUALLY POSED US
Dialogue: 0,0:50:40.00,0:50:44.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,IN SOME BIG ROOMS WITH MAYBE 14 BEDS.
Dialogue: 0,0:50:44.71,0:50:50.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THEY ARE YELLING AT US, "YOU WILL HAVE SERBIAN BABIES, SERBIAN CHILDREN."
Dialogue: 0,0:50:50.21,0:50:52.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THEY WERE BEATEN,
Dialogue: 0,0:50:52.22,0:50:54.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,HORRIBLY BEATEN
Dialogue: 0,0:50:54.72,0:50:59.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WITH FACE, WITH, ACTUALLY, THEIR LEGS AND...
Dialogue: 0,0:50:59.22,0:51:02.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,HORRIBLE.
Dialogue: 0,0:51:02.89,0:51:07.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[COMPUTER KEYBOARD KEYS TAPPING]
Dialogue: 0,0:51:07.46,0:51:10.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THERE'S A LOT TO MAKE SENSE OF HERE.
Dialogue: 0,0:51:10.47,0:51:13.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,IT SEEMS TO ME WE'VE BEEN MISSING A CRITICAL POINT
Dialogue: 0,0:51:13.47,0:51:15.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,IN UNDERSTANDING THESE HORRORS.
Dialogue: 0,0:51:15.97,0:51:19.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THE MASTERMINDS OF GENOCIDE USE DIFFERENT MEANS
Dialogue: 0,0:51:19.48,0:51:24.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,IN VARYING COMBINATIONS TO GET RID OF UNWANTED PEOPLE.
Dialogue: 0,0:51:24.41,0:51:27.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THEY EXPEL VICTIMS FROM THEIR COUNTRIES,
Dialogue: 0,0:51:27.12,0:51:28.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THEY HERD THEM INTO CAMPS,
Dialogue: 0,0:51:28.88,0:51:31.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THEY RAPE WOMEN IN AN ORGANIZED WAY,
Dialogue: 0,0:51:31.62,0:51:36.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND OF COURSE, THEY SYSTEMATICALLY SLAUGHTER.
Dialogue: 0,0:51:36.63,0:51:39.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[COMPUTER KEYBOARD KEYS TAPPING]
Dialogue: 0,0:51:39.63,0:51:45.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,SO WHAT WE OFTEN THINK OF AS GENOCIDE IS NEVER JUST ABOUT KILLING.
Dialogue: 0,0:51:45.64,0:51:48.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WHAT THE PERPETRATORS WANT MOST OF ALL
Dialogue: 0,0:51:48.47,0:51:59.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,IS TO ELIMINATE A SUBSTANTIAL PART OR ALL OF THE TARGETED GROUP.
Dialogue: 0,0:51:59.98,0:52:02.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,TERMS LIKE "GENOCIDE" OR EVEN "MASS MURDER"
Dialogue: 0,0:52:02.92,0:52:09.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,ARE INADEQUATE TO DESCRIBE THE PHENOMENON WE HAVE REPEATEDLY WITNESSED.
Dialogue: 0,0:52:09.93,0:52:14.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AS A POLITICAL SCIENTIST, I LIVE AND WORK IN A WORLD OF ISMS.
Dialogue: 0,0:52:14.100,0:52:19.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THIS ONE WE SHOULD CALL ELIMINATIONISM.
Dialogue: 0,0:52:19.77,0:52:26.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,REFRAMING THE WAY WE THINK ABOUT THESE DEEDS IS NOT JUST AN INTELLECTUAL EXERCISE.
Dialogue: 0,0:52:26.28,0:52:28.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,IT'S A CRITICAL COMPONENT OF UNDERSTANDING
Dialogue: 0,0:52:28.78,0:52:34.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THAT GENOCIDE IS ONE PART OF A LARGER PHENOMENON THAT WE MUST COMBAT.
Dialogue: 0,0:52:34.78,0:52:39.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WE NEED TO BE ON ALERT WHEN WE SEE ANY FORM OF ELIMINATIONIST POLITICS,
Dialogue: 0,0:52:39.69,0:52:45.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WHETHER IT INITIALLY INCLUDES KILLING OR NOT.
Dialogue: 0,0:52:45.70,0:52:50.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,EVERYWHERE IT IS PRACTICED, ELIMINATIONISM TAKES DIFFERENT FORMS.
Dialogue: 0,0:52:50.20,0:52:52.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,RWANDA WAS DIFFERENT FROM BOSNIA,
Dialogue: 0,0:52:52.70,0:52:57.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,CAMBODIA WAS DIFFERENT FROM TURKEY.
Dialogue: 0,0:52:57.21,0:53:04.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THE GERMANS' ASSAULT ON THE JEWS WAS ALSO DIFFERENT.
Dialogue: 0,0:53:04.08,0:53:09.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,IT WAS THE ONLY CASE WHEN PERPETRATORS TARGETED EVERY ADULT AND CHILD,
Dialogue: 0,0:53:09.15,0:53:12.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WITHOUT EXCEPTION, FOR ANNIHILATION,
Dialogue: 0,0:53:12.66,0:53:17.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND WHERE THAT MURDEROUS POLICY EXTENDED TO COUNTRY AFTER COUNTRY,
Dialogue: 0,0:53:17.59,0:53:21.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,INCLUDING JEWS HALF A CONTINENT AWAY.
Dialogue: 0,0:53:21.60,0:53:24.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Goldhagen: SO IT'S 64 YEARS SINCE YOU'VE BEEN BACK, RIGHT?
Dialogue: 0,0:53:24.60,0:53:24.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,YES, THAT'S RIGHT, YES.
Dialogue: 0,0:53:24.60,0:53:26.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND--
Dialogue: 0,0:53:26.07,0:53:28.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND I FEEL THE SADNESS AS I COME BACK
Dialogue: 0,0:53:28.57,0:53:31.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,TO THIS PLACE WHERE I WAS ALMOST KILLED,
Dialogue: 0,0:53:31.07,0:53:34.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WHERE A GREAT PART OF MY FAMILY LIES BURIED.
Dialogue: 0,0:53:34.58,0:53:38.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,HAD YOU--HAD YOU EVER--
Dialogue: 0,0:53:38.58,0:53:40.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,HAD YOU PLANNED ONE DAY TO COME BACK ON YOUR OWN?
Dialogue: 0,0:53:40.58,0:53:43.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,NO, NEVER. REALLY NOT.
Dialogue: 0,0:53:43.09,0:53:45.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,UH, I PROBABLY WOULD HAVE NEVER COME BACK
Dialogue: 0,0:53:45.59,0:53:49.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,HAD IT NOT BEEN THAT YOU WERE MAKING THIS FILM.
Dialogue: 0,0:53:49.59,0:53:53.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,SO ARE YOU A RELUCTANT, IF WILLING, PARTICIPANT?
Dialogue: 0,0:53:53.10,0:54:03.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AN AMBIVALENT PARTICIPANT, I WOULD SAY.
Dialogue: 0,0:54:03.71,0:54:06.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Goldhagen: THE JEWS IN THE REGION WHERE MY FATHER LIVED
Dialogue: 0,0:54:06.78,0:54:09.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WERE KILLED, IN MOST CASES, BY THE EINSATZGRUPPEN--
Dialogue: 0,0:54:09.98,0:54:13.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,MOBILE KILLING SQUADS CHARGED WITH EXTERMINATING EVERY JEW
Dialogue: 0,0:54:13.48,0:54:16.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,IN THE SOVIET TERRITORY CONQUERED BY THE GERMANS.
Dialogue: 0,0:54:16.99,0:54:30.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THEY KILLED WITH BRUTAL ABANDON.
Dialogue: 0,0:54:30.33,0:54:33.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Goldhagen: IS THERE ANY-- IS THERE A POSITIVE SIDE FOR YOU TO GO BACK?
Dialogue: 0,0:54:33.84,0:54:36.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,SHOWING ME THE PLACES YOU WERE--
Dialogue: 0,0:54:36.10,0:54:38.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,YES, SHOWING YOU THE PLACES
Dialogue: 0,0:54:38.61,0:54:42.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,BECAUSE YOU HAVE BEEN SORT OF AN ACADEMIC,
Dialogue: 0,0:54:42.11,0:54:45.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,VERY SECLUDED,
Dialogue: 0,0:54:45.62,0:54:48.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,NEVER...
Dialogue: 0,0:54:48.12,0:54:52.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,FOR THE FIRST TIME-- YOU HAVE STUDIED
Dialogue: 0,0:54:52.12,0:54:56.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THIS PHENOMENON FROM A DISTANCE, THROUGH DOCUMENT.
Dialogue: 0,0:54:56.63,0:55:06.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,COME NOW, YOU HAVE SEEN THE MASS GRAVES IN GUATEMALA.
Dialogue: 0,0:55:06.07,0:55:09.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND YOU CERTAINLY SHOULD HAVE A LOOK AT THE MASS GRAVE
Dialogue: 0,0:55:09.07,0:55:17.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,OF SOME OF YOUR RELATIVES, GRAVE OF MY PARENTS.
Dialogue: 0,0:55:17.58,0:55:23.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Goldhagen: THERE WERE 2,000 JEWS IN THIS TOWN WHEN MY FATHER USED TO VISIT HIS RELATIVES HERE.
Dialogue: 0,0:55:23.09,0:55:27.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,NOW THERE ARE 3.
Dialogue: 0,0:55:27.22,0:55:32.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,MOST LIE IN A MASS GRAVE NEAR WHAT IS NOW A POPULAR PICNIC SITE.
Dialogue: 0,0:55:32.23,0:55:39.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[BOYS SHOUTING]
Dialogue: 0,0:55:39.17,0:55:41.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[SPEAKING NATIVE LANGUAGE]
Dialogue: 0,0:55:41.67,0:55:45.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Goldhagen: LIKE MY FATHER, I HAVE ALWAYS ENDEAVORED TO SEPARATE MY EMOTIONS
Dialogue: 0,0:55:45.84,0:55:48.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,FROM MY SCHOLARLY WORK ON GENOCIDE.
Dialogue: 0,0:55:48.34,0:55:52.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,BUT HERE WE ARE, AT A MOMENT THAT I NEVER IMAGINED.
Dialogue: 0,0:55:52.85,0:55:56.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,A LOCAL MAN HAS AGREED TO GUIDE US TO THE SITE
Dialogue: 0,0:55:56.02,0:56:00.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WHERE GERMANS MURDERED MY FATHER'S RELATIVES AND 2,000 OTHERS.
Dialogue: 0,0:56:00.46,0:56:01.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I SEE, I SEE.
Dialogue: 0,0:56:01.96,0:56:13.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,OH, HERE WE CAN GO CLOSE.
Dialogue: 0,0:56:13.54,0:56:17.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Goldhagen: THE SCHOLAR'S JOB IS TO STAND BACK AND ANALYZE,
Dialogue: 0,0:56:17.04,0:56:21.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,BUT THE SURVIVOR AND THE SON HAVE NO CHOICE BUT TO DRAW NEAR.
Dialogue: 0,0:56:21.11,0:56:23.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"TO THE ETERNAL MEMORY
Dialogue: 0,0:56:23.61,0:56:27.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,OF THE JEWS OF KOSOV..."
Dialogue: 0,0:56:27.88,0:56:30.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"WHO WERE MURDERED
Dialogue: 0,0:56:30.89,0:56:34.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"BY THE NAZI MURDERERS
Dialogue: 0,0:56:34.72,0:56:38.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND THEIR HELPERS."
Dialogue: 0,0:56:38.26,0:56:39.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,SO...
Dialogue: 0,0:56:39.80,0:56:42.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,HOW MANY...PEOPLE FROM YOUR FAMILY
Dialogue: 0,0:56:42.80,0:56:45.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,ARE LYING IN THIS MASS GRAVE--
Dialogue: 0,0:56:45.80,0:56:48.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I WOULD ESTIMATE IT OVER A DOZEN PEOPLE.
Dialogue: 0,0:56:48.77,0:56:50.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WERE YOU CLOSE TO THEM?
Dialogue: 0,0:56:50.27,0:56:52.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I WAS VERY CLOSE TO THEM. I VISITED THEM HERE,
Dialogue: 0,0:56:52.04,0:56:55.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND IT EVOKES SOME CERTAIN EMOTIONS.
Dialogue: 0,0:56:55.04,0:56:59.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THE IMAGES OF SOME, OF ELDERS APPEAR BEFORE ME.
Dialogue: 0,0:56:59.05,0:57:03.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I SEE THEM NOW. AS I SPEAK TO YOU NOW, I SEE THEM.
Dialogue: 0,0:57:03.49,0:57:07.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,SOMETIMES--AS YOU MAY REMEMBER WHEN I GAVE THE COURSE
Dialogue: 0,0:57:07.66,0:57:10.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,ON THE HOLOCAUST AT HARVARD--
Dialogue: 0,0:57:10.79,0:57:13.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I EXPERIENCE SOMETIMES A SENSE OF GUILT
Dialogue: 0,0:57:13.56,0:57:16.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AT THE FACT THAT I SPEAK SO COOLLY
Dialogue: 0,0:57:16.16,0:57:18.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND ANALYTICALLY OVER THEIR DEATH.
Dialogue: 0,0:57:18.33,0:57:21.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'M YOUR SON IN MANY WAYS,
Dialogue: 0,0:57:21.20,0:57:24.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND YOUR DISPASSION IS MY OWN.
Dialogue: 0,0:57:24.07,0:57:26.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,HOW--HOW DID THEY DIE?
Dialogue: 0,0:57:26.08,0:57:27.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WHAT HAPPENED HERE?
Dialogue: 0,0:57:27.64,0:57:30.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WELL, THEY BROUGHT THEM UP HERE
Dialogue: 0,0:57:30.01,0:57:31.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND KILLED THEM BY GUNFIRE.
Dialogue: 0,0:57:31.61,0:57:33.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,ONE GROUP FELL INTO THE GRAVE.
Dialogue: 0,0:57:33.32,0:57:34.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THEN ANOTHER GROUP WAS LINED UP,
Dialogue: 0,0:57:34.95,0:57:36.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THEY FELL INTO THE GRAVE.
Dialogue: 0,0:57:36.18,0:57:36.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WHEN THEY WERE SHOT?
Dialogue: 0,0:57:36.18,0:57:37.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WHEN THEY WERE SHOT
Dialogue: 0,0:57:37.92,0:57:40.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,UNTIL--AND MANY OF THEM WERE PROBABLY NOT KILLED,
Dialogue: 0,0:57:40.29,0:57:41.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,MANY OF THEM WERE PROBABLY NOT DEAD.
Dialogue: 0,0:57:41.76,0:57:44.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THEY WERE ALIVE AS THEY FELL INTO THE GRAVE,
Dialogue: 0,0:57:44.96,0:57:50.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND UKRAINIAN GROUPS WERE MADE TO COVER THE GRAVES.
Dialogue: 0,0:57:50.07,0:57:51.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,YOU KNOW, AS WE'VE OFTEN SPOKEN BEFORE,
Dialogue: 0,0:57:51.80,0:57:55.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,IT'S SHOCKING TO ME TO REFLECT ON HOW DETACHED I AM, TOO,
Dialogue: 0,0:57:55.74,0:57:57.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,FROM THIS, THAT I DIDN'T EVEN MAKE
Dialogue: 0,0:57:57.81,0:58:00.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THIS OBVIOUS CONNECTION THAT WE WERE GOING HERE
Dialogue: 0,0:58:00.28,0:58:02.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WHEN I WAS IN A MASS GRAVE IN GUATEMALA,
Dialogue: 0,0:58:02.54,0:58:04.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,BUT NOW THAT WE'RE HERE,
Dialogue: 0,0:58:04.78,0:58:07.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I REALIZE THAT SUDDENLY MY RELATIVES
Dialogue: 0,0:58:07.22,0:58:10.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,MURDERED SIT BELOW US, LIE BELOW US
Dialogue: 0,0:58:10.15,0:58:15.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,UNMARKED, UNKNOWN,
Dialogue: 0,0:58:15.06,0:58:16.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,BARELY REGISTERED IN ANY WAY,
Dialogue: 0,0:58:16.79,0:58:21.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THEIR NAMES ABSENT, SOON TO BE FORGOTTEN COMPLETELY.
Dialogue: 0,0:58:21.83,0:58:34.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,SHOULD WE GET SOME STONES, TATI?
Dialogue: 0,0:58:34.34,0:59:10.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,PERHAPS WE BETTER PUT THEM ON EACH.
Dialogue: 0,0:59:10.45,0:59:19.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[INDISTINCT CHATTER]
Dialogue: 0,0:59:19.39,0:59:21.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[DRUMS BEATING]
Dialogue: 0,0:59:21.36,0:59:32.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[SINGING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE]
Dialogue: 0,0:59:32.50,0:59:35.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Woman: WELL, CERTAINLY, WE THOUGHT THAT WE WERE SAYING,
Dialogue: 0,0:59:35.37,0:59:38.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"NEVER AGAIN," BUT WE KEEP SAYING, "NEVER AGAIN,"
Dialogue: 0,0:59:38.61,0:59:40.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN.
Dialogue: 0,0:59:40.14,0:59:41.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WELL, THERE ARE TWO DIFFERENT ISSUES.
Dialogue: 0,0:59:41.38,0:59:43.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WHY DOES THIS KEEP HAPPENING AGAIN,
Dialogue: 0,0:59:43.28,0:59:45.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND WHY DOESN'T ANYBODY DO ANYTHING
Dialogue: 0,0:59:45.05,0:59:46.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,TO STOP IT FROM HAPPENING AGAIN?
Dialogue: 0,0:59:46.78,0:59:48.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND IT KEEPS HAPPENING BECAUSE
Dialogue: 0,0:59:48.95,0:59:50.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THERE ARE POLITICAL REGIMES THAT FIND IT USEFUL
Dialogue: 0,0:59:50.99,0:59:53.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,TO DEAL WITH THEIR SELF-DEFINED PROBLEMS,
Dialogue: 0,0:59:53.56,0:59:55.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND IT'S A VERY USEFUL TOOL.
Dialogue: 0,0:59:55.06,0:59:58.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THEY DO IT BECAUSE THEY KNOW THEY HAVE BASICALLY IMPUNITY,
Dialogue: 0,0:59:58.36,1:00:01.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND THERE HAS BEEN VERY LITTLE CALLING TO ACCOUNT,
Dialogue: 0,1:00:01.23,1:00:03.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND THEY GET AWAY WITH IT TIME AND TIME AGAIN.
Dialogue: 0,1:00:03.73,1:00:06.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,SO QUITE CLEARLY, THE STATUS QUO IS CATASTROPHIC,
Dialogue: 0,1:00:06.57,1:00:07.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND WHEN I SAY CATASTROPHIC,
Dialogue: 0,1:00:07.67,1:00:09.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I MEAN LITERALLY CATASTROPHIC
Dialogue: 0,1:00:09.70,1:00:11.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,BECAUSE IT TAKES THE LIVES OF TENS OF THOUSANDS,
Dialogue: 0,1:00:11.71,1:00:12.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS,
Dialogue: 0,1:00:12.81,1:00:15.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,MILLIONS UPON MILLIONS OF PEOPLE,
Dialogue: 0,1:00:15.11,1:00:17.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND SO "NEVER AGAIN" IS A HOLLOW PHRASE.
Dialogue: 0,1:00:17.15,1:00:19.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,IT'S WELL-MEANT, BUT IN THE WORLD
Dialogue: 0,1:00:19.15,1:00:20.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,OF WHAT ACTUALLY HAPPENS,
Dialogue: 0,1:00:20.68,1:00:26.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,IT'S BEEN A HOLLOW PHRASE, A MOCKERY OF ITSELF.
Dialogue: 0,1:00:26.76,1:00:30.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THE INACTION OF WORLD LEADERS IN THE FACE OF MASS SLAUGHTER
Dialogue: 0,1:00:30.06,1:00:33.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,GOES BACK WELL BEFORE THE HOLOCAUST,
Dialogue: 0,1:00:33.20,1:00:37.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND GENOCIDAL LEADERS HAVE TAKEN NOTE.
Dialogue: 0,1:00:37.60,1:00:40.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,STARTING IN 1915, THE TURKISH GOVERNMENT KILLED
Dialogue: 0,1:00:40.44,1:00:42.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AT LEAST A MILLION ARMENIANS
Dialogue: 0,1:00:42.80,1:00:46.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND EXPELLED HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS MORE.
Dialogue: 0,1:00:46.61,1:00:48.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THE STORY OF THE ARMENIAN GENOCIDE
Dialogue: 0,1:00:48.61,1:00:52.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WAS COVERED ON THE FRONT PAGE OF THE "NEW YORK TIMES,"
Dialogue: 0,1:00:52.45,1:00:54.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND TURKEY'S LEADERS WERE EXPLICITLY WARNED
Dialogue: 0,1:00:54.75,1:00:56.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,BY THE U.S. AND OTHERS THAT THEIR NATION
Dialogue: 0,1:00:56.99,1:01:00.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WOULD BE CONDEMNED BY THE WORLD,
Dialogue: 0,1:01:00.72,1:01:05.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,BUT THE MASTERMINDS OF GENOCIDE WERE UNDETERRED.
Dialogue: 0,1:01:05.76,1:01:08.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THE TURKS BRAZENLY DESTROYED COMMUNITIES,
Dialogue: 0,1:01:08.56,1:01:11.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,KILLED, RAPED, AND DROVE THE ARMENIAN PEOPLE
Dialogue: 0,1:01:11.80,1:01:17.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,INTO THE DESERT, WHERE THEY STARVED TO DEATH.
Dialogue: 0,1:01:17.84,1:01:19.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,FOR A CENTURY, TURKEY HAS REFUSED
Dialogue: 0,1:01:19.54,1:01:22.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,TO ACKNOWLEDGE THE GENOCIDE,
Dialogue: 0,1:01:22.71,1:01:24.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND REMARKABLY, MANY AROUND THE WORLD,
Dialogue: 0,1:01:24.78,1:01:29.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,INCLUDING THE U.S. GOVERNMENT, HAVE ALLOWED THEM TO DO SO.
Dialogue: 0,1:01:29.42,1:01:30.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Man: THE ARMENIAN GENOCIDE
Dialogue: 0,1:01:30.69,1:01:34.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,IS THE ONLY GENOCIDE THAT WE HAVE TROUBLE RECOGNIZING,
Dialogue: 0,1:01:34.96,1:01:37.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND IT'S BECAUSE THE CAMPAIGN OF DENIAL
Dialogue: 0,1:01:37.29,1:01:38.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,CONTINUES TO THIS DAY.
Dialogue: 0,1:01:38.86,1:01:41.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Woman: OUR GOVERNMENT IS FLAT OUT WRONG
Dialogue: 0,1:01:41.20,1:01:44.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,IN THEIR REFUSAL TO RECOGNIZE THE ARMENIAN GENOCIDE.
Dialogue: 0,1:01:44.63,1:01:49.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WE MUST CALL GENOCIDE BY ITS NAME.
Dialogue: 0,1:01:49.30,1:01:51.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Schiff: WE CAN'T HAVE THE KIND OF LEADERSHIP
Dialogue: 0,1:01:51.34,1:01:54.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THAT WE NEED IN STOPPING GENOCIDE GOING ON TODAY
Dialogue: 0,1:01:54.81,1:01:58.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,IF WE'RE EQUIVOCAL ABOUT THE MURDER OF OTHER PEOPLE
Dialogue: 0,1:01:58.31,1:02:02.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,BECAUSE IT MIGHT OFFEND AN ALLY.
Dialogue: 0,1:02:02.62,1:02:04.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I SHOULD THINK THAT IT WOULD BE A NO-BRAINER
Dialogue: 0,1:02:04.09,1:02:06.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THAT A RESOLUTION BE PASSED TO ACKNOWLEDGE THIS.
Dialogue: 0,1:02:06.22,1:02:07.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WHAT'S THE PROBLEM?
Dialogue: 0,1:02:07.62,1:02:09.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WELL, IT SHOULD BE A NO-BRAINER.
Dialogue: 0,1:02:09.46,1:02:12.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AS IT IS, IT'S AN ENORMOUSLY DIFFICULT CHALLENGE.
Dialogue: 0,1:02:12.46,1:02:16.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WHEN THE GENOCIDE RESOLUTION WAS IN COMMITTEE LAST FALL,
Dialogue: 0,1:02:16.73,1:02:18.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES
Dialogue: 0,1:02:18.10,1:02:21.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WAS ON THE PHONE, CALLING COMMITTEE MEMBERS AT THEIR HOME
Dialogue: 0,1:02:21.24,1:02:22.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,TO URGE THEM TO VOTE AGAINST IT.
Dialogue: 0,1:02:22.77,1:02:22.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,FOR THIS RESOLUTION?
Dialogue: 0,1:02:22.77,1:02:24.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,FOR THIS RESOLUTION.
Dialogue: 0,1:02:24.57,1:02:27.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WE ALL DEEPLY REGRET THE TRAGIC SUFFERING OF THE ARMENIAN PEOPLE
Dialogue: 0,1:02:27.68,1:02:31.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THAT BEGAN IN 1915.
Dialogue: 0,1:02:31.51,1:02:33.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THIS RESOLUTION IS NOT THE RIGHT RESPONSE
Dialogue: 0,1:02:33.48,1:02:35.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,TO THESE HISTORIC MASS KILLINGS.
Dialogue: 0,1:02:35.62,1:02:36.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THE PROBLEM THAT WE HAVE
Dialogue: 0,1:02:36.72,1:02:37.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,IS THAT THIS IS CLEARLY
Dialogue: 0,1:02:37.89,1:02:39.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,A VERY SENSITIVE SUBJECT
Dialogue: 0,1:02:39.22,1:02:40.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,FOR ONE OF OUR CLOSEST ALLIES.
Dialogue: 0,1:02:40.69,1:02:43.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,YOU HAD MEMBERS OF THE JOINT CHIEFS OF STAFF CALLING MEMBERS,
Dialogue: 0,1:02:43.49,1:02:46.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,YOU HAD THE SECRETARY OF STATE CALLING MEMBERS.
Dialogue: 0,1:02:46.23,1:02:50.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'VE NEVER SEEN A FULL-COURT PRESS LIKE THIS ON ANY RESOLUTION.
Dialogue: 0,1:02:50.30,1:02:52.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I DON'T THINK WE STRENGTHEN OUR RELATIONSHIP
Dialogue: 0,1:02:52.50,1:02:54.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,EVEN WITH AN ALLY WHEN WE TURN A BLIND EYE
Dialogue: 0,1:02:54.97,1:02:58.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,TO SOME OF THE WORST CHAPTERS IN HUMAN HISTORY.
Dialogue: 0,1:02:58.77,1:03:02.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Goldhagen: OUR POLITICIANS MAY FAIL TO LEARN FROM HISTORY,
Dialogue: 0,1:03:02.11,1:03:04.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,BUT THERE IS AMPLE EVIDENCE THAT MASS MURDERERS
Dialogue: 0,1:03:04.45,1:03:06.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,HAVE LEARNED QUITE WELL.
Dialogue: 0,1:03:06.48,1:03:08.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Man: SUDANESE PRESIDENT OMAR AL-BASHIR
Dialogue: 0,1:03:08.25,1:03:09.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,HAS BEEN ACCUSED OF MASTERMINDING
Dialogue: 0,1:03:09.68,1:03:12.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,A CAMPAIGN OF GENOCIDE IN DARFUR.
Dialogue: 0,1:03:12.05,1:03:15.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Goldhagen: 20 YEARS BEFORE THE RECENT CRISIS IN DARFUR,
Dialogue: 0,1:03:15.79,1:03:18.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THE SAME SUDANESE GOVERNMENT KILLED AND EXPELLED
Dialogue: 0,1:03:18.46,1:03:25.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,EVEN MORE PEOPLE IN SOUTHERN SUDAN.
Dialogue: 0,1:03:25.67,1:03:27.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AFTER KILLING TWO MILLION THEN,
Dialogue: 0,1:03:27.70,1:03:30.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THE SUDANESE LEADER OMAR AL-BASHIR LEARNED
Dialogue: 0,1:03:30.84,1:03:36.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THAT THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY WOULD LET HIM DO IT AGAIN.
Dialogue: 0,1:03:36.74,1:03:50.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WHY DOES THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY FAIL TO INTERVENE TIME AND TIME AGAIN?
Dialogue: 0,1:03:50.39,1:03:54.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,JUST TELL ME.
Dialogue: 0,1:03:54.30,1:03:55.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Madeleine Albright: AS OUR REPORT EMPHASIZES,
Dialogue: 0,1:03:55.96,1:03:58.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THE CHOICE WE FACE IN TRYING TO PREVENT GENOCIDE
Dialogue: 0,1:03:58.77,1:04:02.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,IS RARELY A CASE OF ALL OR NOTHING.
Dialogue: 0,1:04:02.64,1:04:05.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THERE IS A BROAD RANGE OF FOREIGN POLICY OPTIONS
Dialogue: 0,1:04:05.64,1:04:09.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,BETWEEN STANDING ASIDE AND ORDERING IN THE MARINES.
Dialogue: 0,1:04:09.41,1:04:12.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Goldhagen: THE CO-CHAIR OF A RECENT TASK FORCE ON THE SUBJECT,
Dialogue: 0,1:04:12.65,1:04:15.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,FORMER SECRETARY OF STATE MADELEINE ALBRIGHT
Dialogue: 0,1:04:15.38,1:04:18.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,SERVED AS U.S. AMBASSADOR TO THE UNITED NATIONS
Dialogue: 0,1:04:18.25,1:04:20.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,DURING THE BOSNIAN AND RWANDAN GENOCIDES.
Dialogue: 0,1:04:20.82,1:04:32.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[ELEVATOR PINGING]
Dialogue: 0,1:04:32.13,1:04:34.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Goldhagen: YOU KNOW, IF ONE IS SIMPLY NAIVE,
Dialogue: 0,1:04:34.50,1:04:39.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,ONE SEES A WORLD OF POWERFUL COUNTRIES USUALLY LOOKING ON
Dialogue: 0,1:04:39.64,1:04:42.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WITH SOME INEPTITUDE AT BEST AT COUNTRIES
Dialogue: 0,1:04:42.98,1:04:44.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THAT ARE POOR AND NOT VERY POWERFUL
Dialogue: 0,1:04:44.71,1:04:47.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,IN WHICH THEIR LEADERSHIP IS SLAUGHTERING PEOPLE,
Dialogue: 0,1:04:47.12,1:04:49.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND YOU WONDER HOW CAN THIS BE?
Dialogue: 0,1:04:49.58,1:04:51.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,IF YOU GO TO PEOPLE AND YOU SAY,
Dialogue: 0,1:04:51.29,1:04:53.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"YOU CAN PREVENT MASS MURDER,"
Dialogue: 0,1:04:53.16,1:04:55.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THEN MOST PEOPLE WILL THINK,
Dialogue: 0,1:04:55.12,1:04:57.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"OK. I'LL DO THE BEST I CAN."
Dialogue: 0,1:04:57.06,1:05:00.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THE PROBLEM IS THAT WORLD LEADERS
Dialogue: 0,1:05:00.23,1:05:02.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,OR LEADERS GENERALLY ARE DISTRACTED.
Dialogue: 0,1:05:02.43,1:05:03.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THERE'S SO MUCH TO DO.
Dialogue: 0,1:05:03.80,1:05:05.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,IT ISN'T AS IF THEY'RE NOT DOING ANYTHING.
Dialogue: 0,1:05:05.43,1:05:07.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THERE'S NO WAY TO DESCRIBE TO SOMEONE
Dialogue: 0,1:05:07.64,1:05:10.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THAT HAS NEVER BEEN IN THE U.S. GOVERNMENT
Dialogue: 0,1:05:10.17,1:05:14.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,OR ANY GOVERNMENT HOW MANY THINGS ARE HAPPENING EVERY HOUR
Dialogue: 0,1:05:14.24,1:05:18.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND REQUIRE ATTENTION AND REQUIRE WILL AND REQUIRE RESOURCES.
Dialogue: 0,1:05:18.91,1:05:22.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THE QUESTION IS WHETHER YOUR GOVERNMENTAL SYSTEM
Dialogue: 0,1:05:22.08,1:05:27.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,IS SET UP IN A WAY THAT YOU DON'T HAVE TO START FROM SCRATCH.
Dialogue: 0,1:05:27.02,1:05:28.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WE CAN TALK ABOUT RWANDA,
Dialogue: 0,1:05:28.82,1:05:31.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WHERE THERE WERE MANY DIFFERENT PLAYERS INVOLVED
Dialogue: 0,1:05:31.19,1:05:33.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND PEOPLE HAD DIFFERENT DEGREES OF KNOWLEDGE
Dialogue: 0,1:05:33.30,1:05:35.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AT DIFFERENT TIMES ABOUT WHAT WAS GOING ON.
Dialogue: 0,1:05:35.50,1:05:37.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,IT SEEMS THAT THERE WAS A CLEAR LACK OF WILL--
Dialogue: 0,1:05:37.57,1:05:39.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,NOT GOODWILL IN THE SENSE OF COURSE PEOPLE DIDN'T WANT
Dialogue: 0,1:05:39.54,1:05:41.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THE PEOPLE THERE TO BE SLAUGHTERED,
Dialogue: 0,1:05:41.04,1:05:44.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,BUT WILL ACTUALLY TO TAKE THE SACRIFICE
Dialogue: 0,1:05:44.17,1:05:45.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,OR MAKE THE SACRIFICE THAT WAS NECESSARY
Dialogue: 0,1:05:45.37,1:05:46.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,SEE, I DISAGREE WITH YOU.
Dialogue: 0,1:05:46.78,1:05:50.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THE BELGIANS PULLED OUT, DALLAIRE WAS-- YOU KNOW THE STORY.
Dialogue: 0,1:05:50.48,1:05:54.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,DALLAIRE WAS CRYING OUT FOR MORE SUPPORT.
Dialogue: 0,1:05:54.92,1:05:57.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,MAYBE NOT EVERYONE COULD HAVE BEEN SAVED,
Dialogue: 0,1:05:57.29,1:05:58.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,BUT A LOT OF PEOPLE COULD HAVE BEEN SAVED.
Dialogue: 0,1:05:58.62,1:06:00.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I MEAN, THIS IS AN ISSUE THAT WEIGHS VERY HEAVY
Dialogue: 0,1:06:00.79,1:06:02.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,ON ALL OUR HEARTS.
Dialogue: 0,1:06:02.19,1:06:03.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WE WERE AT THE SAME TIME DEALING
Dialogue: 0,1:06:03.69,1:06:06.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WITH SOMALIA, BOSNIA, HAITI,
Dialogue: 0,1:06:06.73,1:06:08.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,A FEW OTHER THINGS THAT WERE GOING ON,
Dialogue: 0,1:06:08.86,1:06:12.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND I THINK THAT PEOPLE DID NOT FULLY UNDERSTAND
Dialogue: 0,1:06:12.57,1:06:15.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,ALL THE HUTU-TUTSI RIVALRY
Dialogue: 0,1:06:15.00,1:06:17.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND THE INTERNAL THINGS THAT WERE BUILDING UP.
Dialogue: 0,1:06:17.11,1:06:20.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THAT, I THINK, WAS SOMETHING THAT HAD NOT BEEN PAID
Dialogue: 0,1:06:20.24,1:06:21.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,ENOUGH ATTENTION TO.
Dialogue: 0,1:06:21.81,1:06:24.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,IT IS MUCH EASIER EX POST FACTO
Dialogue: 0,1:06:24.15,1:06:27.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,TO SAY WE KNEW THESE KINDS OF THINGS WERE GOING ON,
Dialogue: 0,1:06:27.38,1:06:30.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,BUT AT THE TIME I WAS AMBASSADOR AT THE UNITED NATIONS,
Dialogue: 0,1:06:30.52,1:06:36.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND I CAN TELL YOU THAT THE INFORMATION WAS NOT THERE.
Dialogue: 0,1:06:36.72,1:06:39.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Goldhagen: I DON'T KNOW WHAT KIND OF INFORMATION ALBRIGHT NEEDED,
Dialogue: 0,1:06:39.53,1:06:42.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,BUT EVEN MORE THAN DURING THE ARMENIAN GENOCIDE,
Dialogue: 0,1:06:42.06,1:06:44.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,INFORMATION ABOUT THE RWANDAN GENOCIDE
Dialogue: 0,1:06:44.27,1:06:48.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WAS AVAILABLE TO ANYONE WITH ACCESS TO TV OR NEWSPAPER,
Dialogue: 0,1:06:48.67,1:06:50.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AS THERE WERE MULTIPLE SOURCES OF INFORMATION
Dialogue: 0,1:06:50.74,1:06:52.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,COMING STRAIGHT FROM RWANDA,
Dialogue: 0,1:06:52.47,1:06:56.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WHERE EVERYONE KNEW.
Dialogue: 0,1:06:56.88,1:06:59.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AS SOON AS THE KILLING BEGAN, MANY TUTSI,
Dialogue: 0,1:06:59.82,1:07:01.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,INCLUDING EMMANUEL GATARI,
Dialogue: 0,1:07:01.55,1:07:03.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,MADE THEIR WAY TO A TECHNICAL SCHOOL,
Dialogue: 0,1:07:03.69,1:07:54.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WHICH WAS BEING PROTECTED BY U.N. PEACEKEEPERS.
Dialogue: 0,1:07:54.47,1:07:58.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AS THE LIVES OF EMMANUEL AND THE OTHERS WITH HIM HUNG IN THE BALANCE,
Dialogue: 0,1:07:58.44,1:08:00.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THE U.S. AND OTHER FOREIGN GOVERNMENTS
Dialogue: 0,1:08:00.04,1:08:25.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,BEGAN TO EVACUATE THEIR CITIZENS FROM RWANDA.
Dialogue: 0,1:08:25.03,1:08:48.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[EMMANUEL SPEAKING NATIVE LANGUAGE]
Dialogue: 0,1:08:48.66,1:08:52.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[MACHINEGUNS FIRING]
Dialogue: 0,1:08:52.80,1:08:56.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Karugarama: AND THERE WERE SO MANY PEOPLE HAD RUN TO THE U.N.
Dialogue: 0,1:08:56.86,1:09:00.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,FOR SECURITY, FOR PROTECTION,
Dialogue: 0,1:09:00.17,1:09:02.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND THEY WITHDREW AND LEFT THEM THERE
Dialogue: 0,1:09:02.84,1:09:13.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,TO BE MASSACRED IN COLD BLOOD.
Dialogue: 0,1:09:13.38,1:09:18.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THIS IS REALLY SOMETHING THAT THE U.N.
Dialogue: 0,1:09:18.02,1:09:20.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,SHOULD BE ABLE TO EXPLAIN.
Dialogue: 0,1:09:20.06,1:09:24.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,HOW DO YOU WITHDRAW PEOPLE WHO ARE SUPPOSED TO PROTECT PEOPLE
Dialogue: 0,1:09:24.16,1:09:27.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AT A TIME THAT IS SO CRITICAL,
Dialogue: 0,1:09:27.03,1:10:53.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AT A TIME WHEN YOU SEE THE KILLINGS HAD ALREADY STARTED?
Dialogue: 0,1:10:53.78,1:10:56.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Goldhagen: A LACK OF INFORMATION IS NOT THE REASON
Dialogue: 0,1:10:56.15,1:10:59.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WORLD LEADERS FAIL TO INTERVENE TO STOP GENOCIDES.
Dialogue: 0,1:10:59.62,1:11:05.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THE PROBLEM IS A LACK OF WILL.
Dialogue: 0,1:11:05.76,1:11:09.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,FOR MORE THAN HALF A CENTURY, PEOPLE AROUND THE WORLD
Dialogue: 0,1:11:09.10,1:11:12.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,HAVE EXPECTED THE MEN AND WOMEN HERE AT THE UNITED NATIONS
Dialogue: 0,1:11:12.17,1:11:15.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,TO PROTECT THEM,
Dialogue: 0,1:11:15.17,1:11:20.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND TIME AND AGAIN, THE U.N. HAS LET THOSE PEOPLE DOWN.
Dialogue: 0,1:11:20.28,1:11:23.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I LOOK AROUND AT THE MANY STATES HERE THAT HAVE TERRORIZED,
Dialogue: 0,1:11:23.54,1:11:26.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,OPPRESSED, AND ELIMINATED THEIR OWN PEOPLE,
Dialogue: 0,1:11:26.78,1:11:30.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND I THINK, "WHY WOULD ANYONE LOOK TO THIS BODY
Dialogue: 0,1:11:30.35,1:11:36.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,TO COMBAT THESE EVILS AROUND THE WORLD?"
Dialogue: 0,1:11:36.36,1:11:39.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,IN 1948, THE UNITED NATIONS ADOPTED
Dialogue: 0,1:11:39.09,1:11:42.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AN ANTIGENOCIDE CONVENTION THAT LEGALLY DEFINED GENOCIDE
Dialogue: 0,1:11:42.93,1:11:45.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND AUTHORIZED ITS MEMBER STATES
Dialogue: 0,1:11:45.10,1:11:49.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,TO STOP AND PUNISH ACTS OF MASS MURDER.
Dialogue: 0,1:11:49.10,1:11:53.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THE DOCUMENT IS NOBLE-SOUNDING BUT TOTALLY INEFFECTIVE.
Dialogue: 0,1:11:53.14,1:11:55.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,IT HAS NEVER ONCE BEEN INVOKED TO PREVENT THE DEATH
Dialogue: 0,1:11:55.31,1:12:00.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,OF A SINGLE PERSON.
Dialogue: 0,1:12:00.05,1:12:02.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THERE'S A FUNDAMENTAL PROBLEM HERE.
Dialogue: 0,1:12:02.58,1:12:06.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THE U.N. EXISTS LARGELY TO PROTECT STATE SOVEREIGNTY,
Dialogue: 0,1:12:06.09,1:12:08.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,A STATE'S RIGHT TO BE IMMUNE FROM OTHER COUNTRIES
Dialogue: 0,1:12:08.52,1:12:11.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,INTERVENING IN ITS INTERNAL AFFAIRS.
Dialogue: 0,1:12:11.93,1:12:15.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,SO HOW CAN WE EXPECT TO ALSO PROMOTE INTERVENTION
Dialogue: 0,1:12:15.16,1:12:16.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WHEN A SOVEREIGN STATE AND ITS PEOPLE
Dialogue: 0,1:12:16.83,1:12:22.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,ARE ELIMINATING, KILLING, RAPING, AND EXPELLING GROUPS OF ITS OWN CITIZENS?
Dialogue: 0,1:12:22.00,1:12:24.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Man: I DON'T SEE SOVEREIGNTY NEGATIVELY
Dialogue: 0,1:12:24.54,1:12:27.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AS A CONCEPT OF BARRICADING YOURSELF AGAINST THE WORLD
Dialogue: 0,1:12:27.18,1:12:28.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WHILE YOUR PEOPLE ARE SUFFERING.
Dialogue: 0,1:12:28.81,1:12:31.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I SEE IT AS A POSITIVE CONCEPT
Dialogue: 0,1:12:31.91,1:12:34.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,OF THE STATE DISCHARGING ITS RESPONSIBILITIES
Dialogue: 0,1:12:34.62,1:12:36.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,TOWARDS ITS OWN CITIZENS,
Dialogue: 0,1:12:36.32,1:12:39.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,PROVIDING THEM WITH PROTECTION AND ASSISTANCE,
Dialogue: 0,1:12:39.02,1:12:42.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND IF FOR LACK OF CAPACITY, YOU CANNOT DO IT,
Dialogue: 0,1:12:42.62,1:12:45.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,CALL ON THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY TO COME AND HELP YOU
Dialogue: 0,1:12:45.49,1:12:47.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,DO WHAT IS YOUR RESPONSIBILITY IN THE FIRST PLACE.
Dialogue: 0,1:12:47.96,1:12:51.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,YOU KNOW, I APPLAUD WHAT YOU DO, AND I AGREE,
Dialogue: 0,1:12:51.27,1:12:53.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND I ALSO VERY MUCH LIKE
Dialogue: 0,1:12:53.37,1:12:55.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,RECONCEPTUALIZING CONCEPTS THE WAY YOU HAVE
Dialogue: 0,1:12:55.67,1:12:57.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WITH SOVEREIGNTY, BUT YOU'RE
Dialogue: 0,1:12:57.94,1:12:59.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,IN A MINORITY THERE, AS YOU WELL KNOW...
Dialogue: 0,1:12:59.31,1:13:00.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,ABSOLUTELY.
Dialogue: 0,1:13:00.34,1:13:02.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND EVEN IN THIS HALL IN PARTICULAR,
Dialogue: 0,1:13:02.54,1:13:03.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,YOU WOULD BE IN A MINORITY
Dialogue: 0,1:13:03.81,1:13:06.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,IF YOU WERE TO STAND UP AND TO GIVE AND SPEECH HERE,
Dialogue: 0,1:13:06.45,1:13:09.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND IT SEEMS TO ME THAT SOVEREIGNTY
Dialogue: 0,1:13:09.82,1:13:11.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,IS AN IMPORTANT PRINCIPLE,
Dialogue: 0,1:13:11.55,1:13:15.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,BUT WE SHOULD MAKE CLEAR THAT IT DOES NOT GO SO FAR
Dialogue: 0,1:13:15.16,1:13:18.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AS TO ALLOW GOVERNMENTS TO SLAUGHTER THEIR PEOPLE
Dialogue: 0,1:13:18.86,1:13:22.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND THAT THAT IN ITSELF, THOSE ACTS IN ITSELF ABRIDGE SOVEREIGNTY.
Dialogue: 0,1:13:22.80,1:13:25.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND IF YOU DO NOT DISCHARGE YOUR RESPONSIBILITY
Dialogue: 0,1:13:25.10,1:13:28.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND YOU DON'T WELCOME HELP, YOU HAVE NO WILL,
Dialogue: 0,1:13:28.37,1:13:30.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WE WILL TAKE OTHER MEASURES.
Dialogue: 0,1:13:30.40,1:13:35.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND THESE OTHER MEASURES WE NEED TO DEVELOP TO BE A CREDIBLE THREAT,
Dialogue: 0,1:13:35.08,1:13:39.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,BUT MEANWHILE, I'M JUST DOING WHAT IS IN MY CAPACITY TO DO.
Dialogue: 0,1:13:39.61,1:13:41.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND YOU'RE DOING IT WELL.
Dialogue: 0,1:13:41.45,1:13:44.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Goldhagen, voice-over: THERE ARE WELL-MEANING PEOPLE HERE TO BE SURE,
Dialogue: 0,1:13:44.25,1:13:46.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,BUT I'M AFRAID THEY'RE PART OF AN INSTITUTION
Dialogue: 0,1:13:46.25,1:13:49.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THAT IS SET UP TO FAIL.
Dialogue: 0,1:13:49.46,1:13:51.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THE U.N. IS NOT THE SOLUTION,
Dialogue: 0,1:13:51.06,1:13:53.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AS ITS APPALLING RECORD SHOWS,
Dialogue: 0,1:13:53.23,1:13:55.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,BUT I DO THINK WE CAN DESIGN A SYSTEM
Dialogue: 0,1:13:55.13,1:14:00.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THAT WILL EFFECTIVELY STOP OR PREVENT FUTURE GENOCIDES.
Dialogue: 0,1:14:00.07,1:14:05.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THE FIRST COMPONENT MUST BE SWIFT DIPLOMATIC INTERVENTION.
Dialogue: 0,1:14:05.41,1:14:09.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,A RECENT EPISODE HERE IN KENYA MAY OFFER A PROMISING MODEL FOR THE FUTURE.
Dialogue: 0,1:14:09.88,1:14:12.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Man: WHAT WAS ONCE ONE OF AFRICA'S MOST STABLE DEMOCRACIES
Dialogue: 0,1:14:12.68,1:14:15.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,IS RIGHT NOW ONE OF THE MOST VIOLENT PLACES IN THE WORLD.
Dialogue: 0,1:14:15.92,1:14:19.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,EXTREME CHAOS FOLLOWING A DISPUTED ELECTION IN KENYA,
Dialogue: 0,1:14:19.32,1:14:21.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,MOBS TORCHING A CHURCH WITH HUNDREDS
Dialogue: 0,1:14:21.26,1:14:22.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,OF REFUGEES INSIDE.
Dialogue: 0,1:14:22.96,1:14:25.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WITNESSES SAY DOZENS OF PEOPLE, INCLUDING CHILDREN,
Dialogue: 0,1:14:25.53,1:14:28.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WERE BURNED ALIVE OR HACKED TO DEATH WITH MACHETES,
Dialogue: 0,1:14:28.60,1:14:31.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND THERE ARE NEW FEARS TODAY THAT KENYA IS IN DANGER
Dialogue: 0,1:14:31.10,1:14:37.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,OF BECOMING THE NEXT RWANDA.
Dialogue: 0,1:14:37.00,1:14:40.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Goldhagen: IN JANUARY 2008, A SPATE OF KILLINGS
Dialogue: 0,1:14:40.14,1:14:44.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,FOLLOWED THE REELECTION OF KENYAN PRESIDENT MWAI KIBAKI.
Dialogue: 0,1:14:44.65,1:14:46.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Man: CLEARLY, I THINK, THE IMMEDIATE TRIGGER
Dialogue: 0,1:14:46.65,1:14:50.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,FOR THAT VIOLENCE WAS THE DISPUTED ELECTION RESULTS THAT HAPPENED,
Dialogue: 0,1:14:50.25,1:14:52.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,BUT BEYOND THAT, I THINK THERE WERE ALSO
Dialogue: 0,1:14:52.15,1:14:54.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,OTHER UNDERLYING ISSUES THAT CAME TO THE FORE,
Dialogue: 0,1:14:54.66,1:14:57.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,ISSUES OF DISCONTENTMENT, ISSUES OF MARGINALIZATION,
Dialogue: 0,1:14:57.63,1:15:00.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,RIFTS BETWEEN ETHNIC GROUPS IN THE COUNTRY,
Dialogue: 0,1:15:00.06,1:15:02.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,ISSUES OF LAND, ISSUES OF HISTORICAL INJUSTICES.
Dialogue: 0,1:15:02.56,1:15:04.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,SO ALL THESE THINGS CAME UP TOGETHER,
Dialogue: 0,1:15:04.90,1:15:06.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND I THINK THAT THE ELECTION RESULTS,
Dialogue: 0,1:15:06.80,1:15:08.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THE WAY IT WAS HANDLED, THE PROCESS,
Dialogue: 0,1:15:08.40,1:15:10.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WAS REALLY LIKE THE MATCH THAT WAS THROWN
Dialogue: 0,1:15:10.04,1:15:11.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,INTO A BARREL OF OIL.
Dialogue: 0,1:15:11.07,1:15:14.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[SINGING IN NATIVE LANGUAGE]
Dialogue: 0,1:15:14.38,1:15:17.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Goldhagen: IN THE RIFT VALLEY, MEMBERS OF THE PRESIDENT'S TRIBE, THE KIKUYU,
Dialogue: 0,1:15:17.88,1:15:19.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WERE TARGETED.
Dialogue: 0,1:15:19.41,1:15:21.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,1,500 OR MORE WERE KILLED,
Dialogue: 0,1:15:21.62,1:15:31.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS WERE EXPELLED FROM THEIR HOMES.
Dialogue: 0,1:15:31.96,1:15:34.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,IF THE KIKUYU HAD TRIED TO HOLD THEIR GROUND,
Dialogue: 0,1:15:34.50,1:15:36.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WOULD THE VIOLENCE HAVE ESCALATED
Dialogue: 0,1:15:36.50,1:15:38.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,TO PRODUCE DEATHS ON A MASSIVE SCALE?
Dialogue: 0,1:15:38.43,1:15:40.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,ABSOLUTELY. I THINK THE KILLINGS
Dialogue: 0,1:15:40.64,1:15:42.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WOULD HAVE DEFINITELY INCREASED.
Dialogue: 0,1:15:42.10,1:15:46.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I THINK IT WOULD HAVE DRAWN IN, ALSO, MORE COMMUNITIES.
Dialogue: 0,1:15:46.24,1:15:51.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Goldhagen: WITHIN DAYS, FORMER U.N. SECRETARY GENERAL KOFI ANNAN HAD FLOWN TO NAIROBI
Dialogue: 0,1:15:51.68,1:15:55.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,ALONG WITH REPRESENTATIVES OF OTHER AFRICAN COUNTRIES.
Dialogue: 0,1:15:55.15,1:16:00.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I THINK IT IS IMPORTANT THAT ALL KENYANS
Dialogue: 0,1:16:00.72,1:16:05.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,RESPOND WITH SYMPATHY AND UNDERSTANDING
Dialogue: 0,1:16:05.39,1:16:07.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND NOT TRY TO REVENGE.
Dialogue: 0,1:16:07.50,1:16:10.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Goldhagen: THE U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE CONDOLEEZZA RICE ARRIVED
Dialogue: 0,1:16:10.66,1:16:12.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,SOON AFTER.
Dialogue: 0,1:16:12.07,1:16:14.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THEY CAME TO MEDIATE, TO PRESSURE,
Dialogue: 0,1:16:14.14,1:16:15.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND WITH THREATS OF SANCTIONS.
Dialogue: 0,1:16:15.74,1:16:17.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Kiai: I DON'T THINK I'VE EVER SEEN IN AFRICA
Dialogue: 0,1:16:17.50,1:16:20.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,SUCH INTENSE INTERNATIONAL ENGAGEMENT ON AN ISSUE,
Dialogue: 0,1:16:20.61,1:16:23.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND THAT REALLY HELPED.
Dialogue: 0,1:16:23.24,1:16:25.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Goldhagen: THE LONG-TERM EFFECTS OF THE DIPLOMATIC INTERVENTION
Dialogue: 0,1:16:25.81,1:16:28.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,IN KENYA REMAIN TO BE SEEN.
Dialogue: 0,1:16:28.12,1:16:29.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THE VIOLENCE STOPPED,
Dialogue: 0,1:16:29.65,1:16:31.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,BUT THE RACISTS AND POLITICAL ROOTS
Dialogue: 0,1:16:31.39,1:16:33.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,OF THE CONFLICT RUN DEEP,
Dialogue: 0,1:16:33.12,1:16:35.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND KENYAN POLITICAL LEADERS COULD START UP
Dialogue: 0,1:16:35.19,1:16:37.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THE VIOLENCE AGAIN,
Dialogue: 0,1:16:37.19,1:16:39.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,BUT THE IMMEDIATE RESPONSE OF WORLD LEADERS
Dialogue: 0,1:16:39.46,1:16:43.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WAS A POWERFUL STATEMENT AND THE KIND OF RAPID REACTION
Dialogue: 0,1:16:43.03,1:16:49.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THAT COULD SAVE MANY LIVES IN THE FUTURE.
Dialogue: 0,1:16:49.00,1:16:52.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,DIPLOMACY OF COURSE DOES NOT ALWAYS WORK.
Dialogue: 0,1:16:52.27,1:16:54.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Christiane Amanpour: THE U.N. IS ACCUSING THE SUDANESE GOVERNMENT
Dialogue: 0,1:16:54.58,1:16:58.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,OF RESUMING BOMBING RAIDS AGAINST REBELS IN SOUTH DARFUR,
Dialogue: 0,1:16:58.98,1:17:02.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND IT ALSO SAYS THAT DISPLACED VILLAGERS LIKE THESE
Dialogue: 0,1:17:02.25,1:17:07.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,ARE STILL BEING ATTACKED BY JANJAWEED MILITIA.
Dialogue: 0,1:17:07.02,1:17:08.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Goldhagen: WHEN THE SUDANESE GOVERNMENT WAS MURDERING
Dialogue: 0,1:17:08.72,1:17:11.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,ITS OWN PEOPLE IN THE WESTERN REGION OF DARFUR,
Dialogue: 0,1:17:11.53,1:17:16.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WORLD LEADERS SENT ENVOYS TO KHARTOUM.
Dialogue: 0,1:17:16.83,1:17:33.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,BUT THE OIL-RICH REGIME CARES LITTLE ABOUT WORLD OPINION.
Dialogue: 0,1:17:33.48,1:17:34.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THEY CONTINUE TO KILL,
Dialogue: 0,1:17:34.85,1:17:41.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND THE WORLD HAS DONE NOTHING MEANINGFUL TO STOP THEM.
Dialogue: 0,1:17:41.59,1:17:44.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WE NEED TO STOP PROVING TO POLITICAL LEADERS
Dialogue: 0,1:17:44.02,1:17:48.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THAT WE WILL STAND BY AS THEY SLAUGHTER THEIR OWN PEOPLE.
Dialogue: 0,1:17:48.10,1:17:51.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,IF DIPLOMACY FAILS, COUNTRIES COMMITTING MASS ELIMINATIONS
Dialogue: 0,1:17:51.33,1:17:54.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,SUCH AS SUDAN HAVE TO BE KICKED OUT OF THE U.N.
Dialogue: 0,1:17:54.57,1:17:57.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND ALL INTERNATIONAL ORGANIZATIONS,
Dialogue: 0,1:17:57.44,1:18:00.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND ALL TRADE MUST BE CUT OFF.
Dialogue: 0,1:18:00.68,1:18:03.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,LEADERS THAT CONTINUE TO KILL MUST KNOW THAT WE WILL
Dialogue: 0,1:18:03.41,1:18:10.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,SWIFTLY AND FORCEFULLY DESTROY THEIR MILITARY CAPABILITY.
Dialogue: 0,1:18:10.48,1:18:13.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Felde: SOME PEOPLE HAVE TALKED ABOUT SOME KIND OF RAPID RESPONSE FORCE.
Dialogue: 0,1:18:13.42,1:18:16.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I WOULD OF COURSE BE FOR INTERVENTION,
Dialogue: 0,1:18:16.16,1:18:19.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,MILITARY INTERVENTION WHEN PEOPLE ARE BEING SLAUGHTERED.
Dialogue: 0,1:18:19.03,1:18:21.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,IT SEEMS QUITE OBVIOUS THAT HAVING SOME KIND OF FORCE
Dialogue: 0,1:18:21.53,1:18:24.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THAT COULD INTERVENE RAPIDLY AND EFFECTIVELY
Dialogue: 0,1:18:24.23,1:18:26.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,IN MANY OF THE COUNTRIES WHERE IT DOESN'T TAKE
Dialogue: 0,1:18:26.07,1:18:28.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,A GREAT DEAL OF FORCE TO STOP THESE THINGS
Dialogue: 0,1:18:28.04,1:18:31.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,IS AN ABSOLUTE MORAL AND POLITICAL NECESSITY.
Dialogue: 0,1:18:31.04,1:18:36.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,SOME WOULD SAY THAT IF WE'RE GOING TO INTERVENE MILITARILY IN DARFUR
Dialogue: 0,1:18:36.18,1:18:37.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WHAT ABOUT CONGO?
Dialogue: 0,1:18:37.34,1:18:38.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,CERTAINLY, MORE PEOPLE HAVE DIED THERE
Dialogue: 0,1:18:38.51,1:18:39.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,IN THE PAST 10 YEARS.
Dialogue: 0,1:18:39.71,1:18:41.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,SO PERHAPS THEN YOU'RE SUGGESTING
Dialogue: 0,1:18:41.48,1:18:43.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WE SHOULD INTERVENE THERE, AS WELL.
Dialogue: 0,1:18:43.35,1:18:47.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THESE KINDS OF ARGUMENTS I ALSO FIND UNPERSUASIVE.
Dialogue: 0,1:18:47.06,1:18:49.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,IT IS QUITE TRUE THAT THE UNITED STATES IS NOT
Dialogue: 0,1:18:49.36,1:18:50.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THE POLICEMAN OF THE WORLD,
Dialogue: 0,1:18:50.49,1:18:51.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,EVEN THOUGH IT IS THE GUARANTOR
Dialogue: 0,1:18:51.89,1:18:53.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,OF MUCH OF ORDER IN THE WORLD.
Dialogue: 0,1:18:53.66,1:18:55.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,IT REMAINS THAT, BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN
Dialogue: 0,1:18:55.86,1:18:57.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THAT IF INTERVENING IN DARFUR IS
Dialogue: 0,1:18:57.60,1:18:59.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THE RIGHT THING TO DO TO SAVE LIVES
Dialogue: 0,1:18:59.77,1:19:02.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THAT WE SHOULD NOT DO IT BECAUSE WE CAN'T INTERVENE EVERYWHERE.
Dialogue: 0,1:19:02.57,1:19:06.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I DON'T FIND THE ARGUMENTS AGAIN PERSUASIVE THAT,
Dialogue: 0,1:19:06.17,1:19:09.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WELL, YOU SHOULDN'T DO SOMETHING BECAUSE YOU CAN'T DO EVERYTHING.
Dialogue: 0,1:19:09.31,1:19:12.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,OUR PROBLEM IS THAT WE DO LITTLE OR NOTHING AT ALL.
Dialogue: 0,1:19:12.18,1:19:13.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Silajdzic: THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY MUST HAVE
Dialogue: 0,1:19:13.88,1:19:19.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,A MECHANISM THAT WILL QUICKLY REACT TO GENOCIDE.
Dialogue: 0,1:19:19.82,1:19:21.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THERE IS NO WAITING THERE,
Dialogue: 0,1:19:21.39,1:19:23.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THERE IS NO OTHER CONSIDERATION.
Dialogue: 0,1:19:23.89,1:19:25.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,HUMAN LIFE MUST BE SAVED.
Dialogue: 0,1:19:25.96,1:19:27.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WE MUST ALL AGREE TO THIS.
Dialogue: 0,1:19:27.86,1:19:29.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,IF THERE IS MASS KILLING SOMEWHERE,
Dialogue: 0,1:19:29.86,1:19:32.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY HAS THE RIGHT
Dialogue: 0,1:19:32.17,1:19:37.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,TO INTERVENE.
Dialogue: 0,1:19:37.20,1:19:40.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,YOU KNOW, WHEN IT BECOMES TOO LATE, IT'S TOO LATE.
Dialogue: 0,1:19:40.64,1:19:43.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Man: IN MANY INSTANCES, DIPLOMATIC EFFORTS
Dialogue: 0,1:19:43.18,1:19:44.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,ARE GONNA BE UNSUCCESSFUL,
Dialogue: 0,1:19:44.88,1:19:47.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,PARTICULARLY ONCE THE KILLING STARTS.
Dialogue: 0,1:19:47.15,1:19:48.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THE ONLY WAY YOU ARE GONNA STOP THAT
Dialogue: 0,1:19:48.78,1:19:50.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,IS THROUGH THE USE OF MILITARY FORCE,
Dialogue: 0,1:19:50.65,1:19:52.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,BUT IT'S GONNA BE VERY DIFFICULT
Dialogue: 0,1:19:52.69,1:19:57.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,TO GET A WIDE CONSORTIUM OF COUNTRIES TO AGREE
Dialogue: 0,1:19:57.09,1:19:58.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THAT THERE'S AN AUTOMATIC TRIGGER
Dialogue: 0,1:19:58.29,1:20:00.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,FOR MILITARY INTERVENTION.
Dialogue: 0,1:20:00.13,1:20:04.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,IN DARFUR, YOU NEED AFRICAN GOVERNMENTS ON BOARD,
Dialogue: 0,1:20:04.06,1:20:06.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,YOU NEED MIDDLE EASTERN GOVERNMENTS ON BOARD.
Dialogue: 0,1:20:06.27,1:20:07.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THIS HAS PROVED VERY DIFFICULT TO ACCOMPLISH.
Dialogue: 0,1:20:07.90,1:20:11.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,YOU KNOW, I'M NOT A DIPLOMAT, AND I SAY WHY?
Dialogue: 0,1:20:11.21,1:20:12.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WHY DO WE NEED THEM ON BOARD?
Dialogue: 0,1:20:12.74,1:20:17.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I MEAN, YOU HAVE HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE BEING SLAUGHTERED.
Dialogue: 0,1:20:17.74,1:20:20.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WHY DO WE NEED TO GET MIDDLE EASTERN GOVERNMENTS
Dialogue: 0,1:20:20.28,1:20:21.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,OR AFRICAN GOVERNMENTS ON BOARD?
Dialogue: 0,1:20:21.55,1:20:23.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WHY NOT CREATE A NO-FLY ZONE,
Dialogue: 0,1:20:23.98,1:20:26.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WHY NOT BOMB THEIR MILITARY INSTALLATIONS?
Dialogue: 0,1:20:26.02,1:20:27.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,FORGET ABOUT THE DIPLOMACY FOR A MINUTE.
Dialogue: 0,1:20:27.69,1:20:31.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WOULD IT BE EFFECTIVE, AND THEN HOW DO WE WEIGH IF IT WOULD BE
Dialogue: 0,1:20:31.93,1:20:34.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THE MORALITY OF IT VERSUS THE DIPLOMACY OF IT?
Dialogue: 0,1:20:34.86,1:20:37.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,FROM THE MORAL PERSPECTIVE, YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT.
Dialogue: 0,1:20:37.30,1:20:38.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I MEAN, WE DO HAVE A MORAL OBLIGATION.
Dialogue: 0,1:20:38.73,1:20:41.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,IF WE'RE IN A POSITION TO ACT
Dialogue: 0,1:20:41.74,1:20:44.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND WE HAVE THE ACTUAL CAPABILITY TO DO SO,
Dialogue: 0,1:20:44.77,1:20:46.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THEN I THINK WE SHOULD,
Dialogue: 0,1:20:46.27,1:20:48.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,BUT IF YOU HAVE A SITUATION WHERE YOU'RE
Dialogue: 0,1:20:48.68,1:20:51.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,NOT ABLE TO GET SUPPORT OF OTHER GOVERNMENTS,
Dialogue: 0,1:20:51.95,1:20:54.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,IT MAY BE COUNTERPRODUCTIVE.
Dialogue: 0,1:20:54.45,1:20:55.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Goldhagen: GETTING THE SUPPORT OF OTHER GOVERNMENTS
Dialogue: 0,1:20:55.98,1:20:58.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,SOUNDS GOOD, BUT AS HARIS SILAJDZIC
Dialogue: 0,1:20:58.55,1:21:01.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,EXPERIENCED DURING THE DAYS OF THE BOSNIAN GENOCIDE,
Dialogue: 0,1:21:01.42,1:21:03.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,CONVINCING LEADERS TO INTERVENE MILITARILY
Dialogue: 0,1:21:03.69,1:21:05.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,IS EXTRAORDINARILY DIFFICULT.
Dialogue: 0,1:21:05.73,1:21:08.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WHAT WAS IT LIKE FOR YOU TRYING TO MOBILIZE
Dialogue: 0,1:21:08.36,1:21:11.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY, THE POLITICAL LEADERS
Dialogue: 0,1:21:11.63,1:21:14.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,OF THE EUROPEAN COUNTRIES, OF THE UNITED STATES,
Dialogue: 0,1:21:14.27,1:21:17.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THE U.N., AND SO ON TO DO SOMETHING?
Dialogue: 0,1:21:17.64,1:21:22.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WELL, THAT IS VERY FRUSTRATING, THE POWERLESSNESS,
Dialogue: 0,1:21:22.18,1:21:23.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,VERY FRUSTRATING.
Dialogue: 0,1:21:23.74,1:21:25.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,IT'S HARD TO MOVE THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY
Dialogue: 0,1:21:25.88,1:21:27.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,TO REALLY DO SOMETHING.
Dialogue: 0,1:21:27.55,1:21:32.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,IT'S THE PHILOSOPHY OF, UH...
Dialogue: 0,1:21:32.29,1:21:35.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THE LEAST RESISTANCE.
Dialogue: 0,1:21:35.66,1:21:40.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"LET'S DO THE EASIEST THING IN THE WORLD, SO LET'S WAIT.
Dialogue: 0,1:21:40.60,1:21:45.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,MAYBE IT WILL GO AWAY."
Dialogue: 0,1:21:45.50,1:21:47.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Goldhagen: AS WE HAVE SEEN TIME AND AGAIN,
Dialogue: 0,1:21:47.94,1:21:51.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WHEN WE WAIT TO INTERVENE, PROBLEMS DON'T GO AWAY.
Dialogue: 0,1:21:51.20,1:22:00.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THEY ONLY GET WORSE.
Dialogue: 0,1:22:00.68,1:22:02.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THIS IS THE STORY OF ANOTHER MASS MURDER
Dialogue: 0,1:22:02.85,1:22:05.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THAT DIDN'T HAVE TO HAPPEN.
Dialogue: 0,1:22:05.99,1:22:09.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,BY THE TIME IT DID, THE ELIMINATION OF BOSNIA'S MUSLIMS
Dialogue: 0,1:22:09.22,1:22:11.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,HAD BEEN GOING ON FOR 3 YEARS.
Dialogue: 0,1:22:11.46,1:22:14.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THE OUTSIDE WORLD KNEW WHAT THE SERBS WERE UP TO,
Dialogue: 0,1:22:14.36,1:22:16.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WE KNEW WE COULD STOP IT,
Dialogue: 0,1:22:16.06,1:22:21.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND DAY AFTER DAY, WE CHOSE NOT TO TAKE EFFECTIVE MEASURES.
Dialogue: 0,1:22:21.54,1:22:24.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,IN 1995, THE CITY OF SREBRENICA,
Dialogue: 0,1:22:24.20,1:22:28.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,DESIGNATED A SAFE HAVEN FOR BOSNIAN MUSLIMS BY THE UNITED NATIONS,
Dialogue: 0,1:22:28.44,1:22:31.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,FELL TO SERB FORCES.
Dialogue: 0,1:22:31.68,1:22:36.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WITHIN DAYS, THE SERBS KILLED 8,000.
Dialogue: 0,1:22:36.35,1:22:39.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,EACH YEAR, SOME OF THE VICTIMS EXHUMED FROM MASS GRAVES
Dialogue: 0,1:22:39.35,1:22:42.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,ARE POSITIVELY IDENTIFIED AND GIVEN A PROPER BURIAL
Dialogue: 0,1:22:42.69,1:22:50.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,ON THE ANNIVERSARY OF THE MASSACRE.
Dialogue: 0,1:22:50.20,1:22:53.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AS SREBRENICA FELL, THE MUSLIMS SOUGHT REFUGE
Dialogue: 0,1:22:53.10,1:22:56.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,SEVERAL MILES AWAY AT THIS FACTORY COMPLEX,
Dialogue: 0,1:22:56.04,1:22:57.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WHICH SERVED AS THE HEADQUARTERS
Dialogue: 0,1:22:57.57,1:23:13.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,OF A SMALL U.N. PEACEKEEPING FORCE.
Dialogue: 0,1:23:13.02,1:23:15.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Sudetic: YOU HAD 25,000 PEOPLE,
Dialogue: 0,1:23:15.46,1:23:20.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,MANY OF THEM ELDERLY, WOMEN, AND CHILDREN
Dialogue: 0,1:23:20.23,1:23:29.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,GATHERED IN THE YARD AROUND THIS BASE, SEEKING PROTECTION.
Dialogue: 0,1:23:29.37,1:23:33.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND I THINK AT THAT TIME THERE WERE APPROXIMATELY 300 DUTCH TROOPS THERE,
Dialogue: 0,1:23:33.34,1:23:35.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,FAR, FAR BELOW ANYTHING THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN
Dialogue: 0,1:23:35.04,1:23:38.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,A CREDIBLE DETERRENT TO ANY KIND
Dialogue: 0,1:23:38.21,1:23:57.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,OF MILITARY ACTION ON THE GROUND.
Dialogue: 0,1:23:57.86,1:23:59.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Goldhagen: AFTER THEY CAPTURED SREBRENICA,
Dialogue: 0,1:23:59.83,1:24:05.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,SERB SOLDIERS UNDER THE COMMAND OF THE NOTORIOUS MASS MURDERER GENERAL RATKO MLADIC ARRIVED
Dialogue: 0,1:24:05.74,1:24:18.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AT THE U.N. BASE TO DEAL WITH THE MUSLIM REFUGEES.
Dialogue: 0,1:24:18.25,1:24:20.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[CHILDREN CRYING]
Dialogue: 0,1:24:20.69,1:24:22.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Sudetic: AFTER A NIGHT OF TERROR,
Dialogue: 0,1:24:22.69,1:24:24.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THE SERBS ANNOUNCED THAT THEY WERE GOING TO BE
Dialogue: 0,1:24:24.89,1:24:30.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,TRANSPORTED TO FRIENDLY LINES IN BUSES, DON'T BE AFRAID.
Dialogue: 0,1:24:30.30,1:24:33.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THEY BROUGHT COOKIES FOR CHILDREN.
Dialogue: 0,1:24:33.00,1:24:41.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[SPEAKING NATIVE LANGUAGE]
Dialogue: 0,1:24:41.41,1:24:46.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THE SERBS SEPARATE THE MILITARY AGE MEN.
Dialogue: 0,1:24:46.41,1:24:50.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WHAT THAT MEANT WAS PRETTY MUCH ANYBODY 12 AND ABOVE TO ONE SIDE,
Dialogue: 0,1:24:50.45,1:24:53.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND THEN THE WOMEN AND CHILDREN AND THE OLDER PEOPLE
Dialogue: 0,1:24:53.12,1:26:41.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,TO THE OTHER.
Dialogue: 0,1:26:41.13,1:26:42.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Goldhagen: THIS IS HOW EASY IT WOULD HAVE BEEN
Dialogue: 0,1:26:42.93,1:26:45.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,TO SAVE THE LIVES OF SABAHETA'S SON
Dialogue: 0,1:26:45.07,1:26:47.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND 8,000 OTHERS IN SREBRENICA.
Dialogue: 0,1:26:47.67,1:26:50.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Woman: EARLY MORNING RAIDS OF MORE THAN 60 AIRCRAFT
Dialogue: 0,1:26:50.20,1:26:54.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,FROM AS MANY AS 5 NATIONS POUNDED AIR DEFENSE MISSILES...
Dialogue: 0,1:26:54.01,1:26:57.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Goldhagen: IN AUGUST 1995, TWO MONTHS AFTER THE EXPULSION
Dialogue: 0,1:26:57.58,1:27:00.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND MASS MURDER IN SREBRENICA
Dialogue: 0,1:27:00.08,1:27:03.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND 3 YEARS AFTER THE GENOCIDE BEGAN,
Dialogue: 0,1:27:03.58,1:27:06.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,NATO FORCES BEGAN A BOMBING CAMPAIGN
Dialogue: 0,1:27:06.09,1:27:08.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AGAINST SERBIAN MILITARY TARGETS.
Dialogue: 0,1:27:08.92,1:27:10.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,IN JUST 3 WEEKS, THE BOMBING CHANGED
Dialogue: 0,1:27:10.86,1:27:13.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,MILOSEVIC'S CALCULATIONS.
Dialogue: 0,1:27:13.66,1:27:16.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,IN SHORT ORDER, SLOBODAN MILOSEVIC WAS
Dialogue: 0,1:27:16.16,1:27:19.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AT THE NEGOTIATING TABLE, DISCUSSING THE PEACE TREATY
Dialogue: 0,1:27:19.07,1:27:21.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THAT WOULD END HIS DEPREDATIONS IN BOSNIA.
Dialogue: 0,1:27:21.97,1:27:24.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THE BOSNIAN GENOCIDE WAS OVER.
Dialogue: 0,1:27:24.84,1:27:26.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,LET'S TURN THE CLOCK BACK.
Dialogue: 0,1:27:26.54,1:27:31.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WHAT HAPPENS IF IN 1992 NATO STARTED TO BOMB
Dialogue: 0,1:27:31.04,1:27:33.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND NOT WAITED UNTIL 1995 TO DO SO?
Dialogue: 0,1:27:33.78,1:27:38.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,OH, THAT WOULD HAVE STOPPED EVERYTHING DEFINITELY.
Dialogue: 0,1:27:38.75,1:27:42.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WE WOULD HAVE SAVED THE LIVES OF 100,000 PEOPLE?
Dialogue: 0,1:27:42.36,1:27:44.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,NOT ONLY THAT. THE CREDIBILITY
Dialogue: 0,1:27:44.49,1:27:46.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,OF THE INTERNATIONAL ORDER,
Dialogue: 0,1:27:46.43,1:27:49.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THE CREDIBILITY OF JUSTICE,
Dialogue: 0,1:27:49.36,1:27:52.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THE CREDIBILITY OF HUMANITY.
Dialogue: 0,1:27:52.57,1:28:10.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN SAVED.
Dialogue: 0,1:28:10.75,1:28:12.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Goldhagen: THE PERPETRATORS OF ELIMINATION
Dialogue: 0,1:28:12.39,1:28:16.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,ALMOST ALWAYS ACT WITH TOTAL IMPUNITY.
Dialogue: 0,1:28:16.56,1:28:22.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,HERE IN GUATEMALA, A GENOCIDAL MASTERMIND WALKS FREELY.
Dialogue: 0,1:28:22.46,1:28:28.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,IN FACT, HE CONTINUES TO SERVE IN THE COUNTRY'S CONGRESS.
Dialogue: 0,1:28:28.07,1:28:31.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[SPEAKS SPANISH]
Dialogue: 0,1:28:31.34,1:28:34.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Goldhagen, voice-over: AT THE TIME THIS KILLER COMMITTED HIS CRIMES,
Dialogue: 0,1:28:34.21,1:28:36.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,HE BELIEVED HE WOULD GET AWAY WITH MURDER.
Dialogue: 0,1:28:36.81,1:28:57.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,SO FAR, HE'S BEEN PROVEN RIGHT.
Dialogue: 0,1:28:57.30,1:28:59.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,JOSÉ EFRAÍN RÍOS MONTT LED THIS COUNTRY
Dialogue: 0,1:28:59.97,1:29:02.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,FOR NEARLY TWO TERRIFYING YEARS,
Dialogue: 0,1:29:02.67,1:29:05.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,DURING WHICH HE WAS RESPONSIBLE FOR A WIDESPREAD CAMPAIGN
Dialogue: 0,1:29:05.54,1:29:10.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,OF TERROR AND SLAUGHTER.
Dialogue: 0,1:29:10.71,1:29:13.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I WANTED TO GET A LOOK AT THIS MAN IN PERSON,
Dialogue: 0,1:29:13.85,1:29:16.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND I HOPED OTILIA LUX DE COTI
Dialogue: 0,1:29:16.02,1:29:17.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,A MEMBER OF GUATEMALA'S CONGRESS,
Dialogue: 0,1:29:17.85,1:29:18.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WOULD HELP.
Dialogue: 0,1:29:18.92,1:29:56.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,HI. NICE TO MEET YOU.
Dialogue: 0,1:29:56.76,1:30:01.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Doyle: THE RÍOS MONTT PLAN FOR 1982 WAS CALLED VICTORIA.
Dialogue: 0,1:30:01.70,1:30:06.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THESE ARE PLANS THAT LAY OUT THE BROAD STRATEGY
Dialogue: 0,1:30:06.37,1:30:09.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,OF HOW THE ARMY WAS GOING TO DESTROY COMMUNISM
Dialogue: 0,1:30:09.40,1:30:11.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND WIPE OUT THE GUERRILLAS,
Dialogue: 0,1:30:11.40,1:30:14.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND THE PLANS ARE VERY EXPLICIT ABOUT THE NEED
Dialogue: 0,1:30:14.14,1:30:19.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,TO GO INTO THE MAYAN COMMUNITIES AND DESTROY THEM.
Dialogue: 0,1:30:19.58,1:30:22.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THEY CONTAIN OPERATIONAL ORDERS
Dialogue: 0,1:30:22.02,1:30:23.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,TO GO INTO CERTAIN VILLAGES,
Dialogue: 0,1:30:23.18,1:30:25.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WHICH WERE, IN FACT, MASSACRED AND RAZED,
Dialogue: 0,1:30:25.95,1:30:30.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND AFTER ACTION REPORTS IN WHICH THE COMMANDERS OF THOSE UNITS SAY,
Dialogue: 0,1:30:30.96,1:30:33.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"DUTY DONE. WE'VE, UH--WE'VE
Dialogue: 0,1:30:33.69,1:30:35.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"COMPLETED THE OPERATION,
Dialogue: 0,1:30:35.23,1:30:37.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND THE VILLAGE IS"--
Dialogue: 0,1:30:37.43,1:30:40.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,UM, WHAT ARE SOME OF THE WORDS THEY USED?
Dialogue: 0,1:30:40.80,1:30:42.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"ELIMINATED." "THE VILLAGE IS ELIMINATED.
Dialogue: 0,1:30:42.37,1:30:44.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THE VILLAGE IS NEUTRALIZED."
Dialogue: 0,1:30:44.60,1:30:47.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[SPEAKING SPANISH]
Dialogue: 0,1:30:47.01,1:30:48.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Goldhagen: OTILIA LUX DE COTI IS TAKING ME
Dialogue: 0,1:30:48.94,1:30:50.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,INTO THE HALLS OF CONGRESS,
Dialogue: 0,1:30:50.78,1:30:55.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WHERE THE FORMER DICTATOR MAINTAINS A POWERFUL PRESENCE.
Dialogue: 0,1:30:55.75,1:30:57.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,IN THE ROUGH AND TUMBLE OF POLITICS,
Dialogue: 0,1:30:57.72,1:30:59.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THE CONGRESSWOMAN WORKS SIDE BY SIDE
Dialogue: 0,1:30:59.55,1:31:01.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WITH THE MAN RESPONSIBLE FOR THE MURDER
Dialogue: 0,1:31:01.59,1:31:17.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,OF NEARLY 200,000 OF HER PEOPLE.
Dialogue: 0,1:31:17.87,1:31:21.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,SEEING RÍOS MONTT IN THIS SETTING IS SURREAL.
Dialogue: 0,1:31:21.08,1:31:25.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,IT'S LIKE ENCOUNTERING HITLER IN THE BUNDESTAG.
Dialogue: 0,1:31:25.68,1:31:29.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I HAVE STUDIED MASS MURDERERS FOR MORE THAN 3 DECADES,
Dialogue: 0,1:31:29.38,1:31:31.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,BUT IT NEVER OCCURRED TO ME THAT I MIGHT ONE DAY STAND
Dialogue: 0,1:31:31.75,1:31:37.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,BEFORE A GENOCIDAL MASTERMIND FACE TO FACE.
Dialogue: 0,1:31:37.12,1:31:45.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[SPEAKING SPANISH]
Dialogue: 0,1:31:45.40,1:31:47.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,MAY I ASK YOU A QUESTION?
Dialogue: 0,1:31:47.40,1:31:49.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WAS THERE GENOCIDE IN GUATEMALA, AND WERE YOU RESPONSIBLE?
Dialogue: 0,1:31:49.64,1:32:11.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[SPEAKING SPANISH]
Dialogue: 0,1:32:11.19,1:32:23.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[SPEAKING SPANISH]
Dialogue: 0,1:32:23.14,1:32:26.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THE U.N. LAWS AND INTERNATIONAL CODES
Dialogue: 0,1:32:26.97,1:32:31.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,HAVE A CONCEPT FOR GENOCIDE.
Dialogue: 0,1:32:31.84,1:32:36.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,IT'S CLEARLY DEFINED.
Dialogue: 0,1:32:36.78,1:32:41.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WHEN YOU'RE GOING TO ELIMINATE AN ETHNICAL GROUP...
Dialogue: 0,1:32:41.89,1:32:45.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WHEN YOU'RE GOING TO ELIMINATE A RELIGIOUS GROUP...
Dialogue: 0,1:32:45.36,1:32:55.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,OR A SPECIFIC GROUP OF PEOPLE.
Dialogue: 0,1:32:55.74,1:32:58.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THE DEFINITION CLEARLY STATES IT'S ELIMINATING SOMETHING.
Dialogue: 0,1:32:58.81,1:33:02.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THE DEFINITION STATES, ELIMINATING IN WHOLE OR IN PART
Dialogue: 0,1:33:02.91,1:33:16.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AN ETHNIC GROUP, WHICH THE MAYAN PEOPLE WERE.
Dialogue: 0,1:33:16.52,1:33:18.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,HE AGREES WITH THAT.
Dialogue: 0,1:33:18.22,1:33:24.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND SO WERE YOU RESPONSIBLE FOR THIS?
Dialogue: 0,1:33:24.80,1:33:29.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,HE WOULD BE IN JAIL IF HE WAS RESPONSIBLE FOR THAT.
Dialogue: 0,1:33:29.14,1:33:30.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Goldhagen, voice-over: I DON'T KNOW WHAT I WAS EXPECTING
Dialogue: 0,1:33:30.97,1:33:33.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,BUT NOT THIS.
Dialogue: 0,1:33:33.07,1:33:36.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THE FORMER DICTATOR WAS EVASIVE AND COMBATIVE,
Dialogue: 0,1:33:36.18,1:33:37.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,BUT REMARKABLY, HE STAYED TO TALK
Dialogue: 0,1:33:37.91,1:33:39.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,FOR MORE THAN 20 MINUTES.
Dialogue: 0,1:33:39.88,1:33:41.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,DO YOU ACCEPT THE HISTORICAL COMMISSION'S FINDING
Dialogue: 0,1:33:41.62,1:33:45.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THAT 200,000 INDIGENOUS MAYANS WERE KILLED
Dialogue: 0,1:33:45.35,1:33:59.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WHILE YOU WERE PRESIDENT BY YOUR MILITARY?
Dialogue: 0,1:33:59.07,1:34:00.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,HE SAID THAT YOU SHOULD TAKE PROOF
Dialogue: 0,1:34:00.50,1:34:06.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND CONVINCE HIM IN A COURT OF LAW.
Dialogue: 0,1:34:06.24,1:34:08.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,STARING INTO THE EYES OF THIS KILLER,
Dialogue: 0,1:34:08.28,1:34:12.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I FEEL OUTRAGE AND DISGUST,
Dialogue: 0,1:34:12.28,1:34:14.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,BUT MORE THAN ANYTHING, I AM REMINDED
Dialogue: 0,1:34:14.72,1:34:17.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THAT ALL OF THIS COMES DOWN TO A CHOICE.
Dialogue: 0,1:34:17.55,1:34:21.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,MORE THAN 25 YEARS AGO AS THE POLITICAL LEADER OF HIS COUNTRY,
Dialogue: 0,1:34:21.39,1:34:23.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THIS MAN CONSIDERED HIS POLITICAL GOALS,
Dialogue: 0,1:34:23.99,1:34:27.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WEIGHED HIS OPTIONS, DECIDED HE COULD GET AWAY WITH IT,
Dialogue: 0,1:34:27.73,1:34:30.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND MADE A CALCULATED DECISION TO MURDER AND EXPEL
Dialogue: 0,1:34:30.83,1:34:34.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF HIS COUNTRY'S PEOPLE.
Dialogue: 0,1:34:34.47,1:34:39.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THE QUESTION IS CAN WE GET FUTURE LEADERS TO MAKE A DIFFERENT DECISION?
Dialogue: 0,1:34:39.74,1:34:47.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I THINK WE CAN.
Dialogue: 0,1:34:47.25,1:34:48.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Woman: YOU KNOW, DANNY, YOU MIGHT BE SUGGESTING
Dialogue: 0,1:34:48.62,1:34:50.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WE CAN PREVENT ONE OF THE FEW THINGS IN THE WORLD
Dialogue: 0,1:34:50.58,1:34:52.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THAT PEOPLE SAY ARE UNSTOPPABLE
Dialogue: 0,1:34:52.75,1:34:55.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,OR THAT WE HAVEN'T SEEMED TO BE ABLE TO STOP.
Dialogue: 0,1:34:55.32,1:34:57.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,DO YOU THINK PEOPLE WILL JUST SAY,
Dialogue: 0,1:34:57.59,1:35:00.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"COME ON, DANNY. THAT'S--THAT'S NOT GONNA HAPPEN.
Dialogue: 0,1:35:00.03,1:35:01.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"IT'S NOT JUST ONE PERSON.
Dialogue: 0,1:35:01.73,1:35:04.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"WE'VE BEEN SCREAMING ABOUT THESE ISSUES FOR A LONG TIME,
Dialogue: 0,1:35:04.60,1:35:07.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND THE LEADERS OF THE WORLD HAVEN'T LISTENED."
Dialogue: 0,1:35:07.60,1:35:10.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THE POLITICAL LEADERS WHO KILL OTHER PEOPLE
Dialogue: 0,1:35:10.27,1:35:13.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,ARE OFTEN HATE-FILLED, POSSESSED BY IDEOLOGIES
Dialogue: 0,1:35:13.41,1:35:15.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THAT LEAD THEM TO SEE GROUPS OF PEOPLE
Dialogue: 0,1:35:15.34,1:35:17.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AS NECESSARY TO SLAUGHTER,
Dialogue: 0,1:35:17.18,1:35:19.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,BUT THEY ARE NOT CRAZY.
Dialogue: 0,1:35:19.88,1:35:24.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THEY ARE RATIONAL CALCULATORS OF COSTS AND BENEFITS.
Dialogue: 0,1:35:24.92,1:35:25.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AFTER ALL, THESE PEOPLE HAVE RISEN
Dialogue: 0,1:35:25.99,1:35:27.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,TO THE PINNACLE OF POWER IN THEIR COUNTRIES,
Dialogue: 0,1:35:27.86,1:35:29.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND SO WHAT WE NEED TO DO IS THINK
Dialogue: 0,1:35:29.26,1:35:33.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,ABOUT THEIR COST-BENEFIT CALCULUS.
Dialogue: 0,1:35:33.96,1:35:36.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,LIKE RÍOS MONTT, ALL POLITICAL LEADERS
Dialogue: 0,1:35:36.20,1:35:39.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WHO INITIATE GENOCIDES AND ELIMINATIONS
Dialogue: 0,1:35:39.27,1:35:41.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,KNOW THAT THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY
Dialogue: 0,1:35:41.17,1:35:44.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,IS UNLIKELY TO INTERFERE WITH THEIR DEADLY PLANS.
Dialogue: 0,1:35:44.84,1:35:48.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Woman: THIS IS CASE NUMBER IT-95-5/18-I,
Dialogue: 0,1:35:48.61,1:35:51.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THE PROSECUTOR VERSUS RADOVAN KARADZIC.
Dialogue: 0,1:35:51.04,1:35:52.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Goldhagen: WE HAVE INTERNATIONAL COURTS,
Dialogue: 0,1:35:52.71,1:35:54.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND THEY DO SOME GOOD,
Dialogue: 0,1:35:54.42,1:35:57.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,BUT THEY ARE UNBEARABLY SLOW AND INEFFECTIVE...
Dialogue: 0,1:35:57.72,1:35:59.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Man: GOOD AFTERNOON, YOUR HONOR.
Dialogue: 0,1:35:59.39,1:36:04.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND THE KILLING CONTINUES.
Dialogue: 0,1:36:04.62,1:36:08.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,SO WHAT SHOULD WE DO?
Dialogue: 0,1:36:08.16,1:36:10.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,FROM THE TRAGEDIES IN RWANDA AND ELSEWHERE,
Dialogue: 0,1:36:10.46,1:36:12.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WE'VE SEEN THAT THE INSTITUTIONS WE RELY ON
Dialogue: 0,1:36:12.73,1:36:15.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,TO COMBAT GENOCIDE DON'T WORK,
Dialogue: 0,1:36:15.54,1:36:18.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND IT'S CLEAR THAT AS IN KENYA TIMELY INTERVENTION
Dialogue: 0,1:36:18.70,1:36:20.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,CAN GET POLITICAL LEADERS
Dialogue: 0,1:36:20.31,1:36:24.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,TO STOP THE ELIMINATIONIST ASSAULT.
Dialogue: 0,1:36:24.18,1:36:27.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,IN DEALING WITH A RECALCITRANT GENOCIDAL LEADER IN DARFUR,
Dialogue: 0,1:36:27.65,1:36:30.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WE'VE LEARNED THAT TO BE EFFECTIVE
Dialogue: 0,1:36:30.08,1:36:33.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,INTERVENTION MUST OFTEN BE FORCEFUL
Dialogue: 0,1:36:33.52,1:36:36.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND THAT, AS WAS THE CASE IN BOSNIA,
Dialogue: 0,1:36:36.29,1:36:42.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,RELATIVELY LITTLE FORCE CAN ACHIEVE EXTRAORDINARY RESULTS,
Dialogue: 0,1:36:42.30,1:36:46.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND WE KNOW ABOVE ALL THAT GENOCIDES ARE POLITICAL
Dialogue: 0,1:36:46.07,1:36:48.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND THEY ARE INITIATED BY A FEW LEADERS
Dialogue: 0,1:36:48.57,1:36:54.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WHOSE COST-BENEFIT CALCULATIONS CAN BE CHANGED.
Dialogue: 0,1:36:54.07,1:36:57.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WE NEED TO CHANGE THAT CALCULATION.
Dialogue: 0,1:36:57.78,1:37:00.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Goldhagen: DO WE NEED TO HAVE A NEW INTERNATIONAL ORIENTATION
Dialogue: 0,1:37:00.35,1:37:02.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,TOWARDS INTERVENTION AND GENOCIDE?
Dialogue: 0,1:37:02.92,1:37:04.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,DEFINITELY.
Dialogue: 0,1:37:04.25,1:37:05.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,HOW WOULD YOU REWRITE THE RULES
Dialogue: 0,1:37:05.62,1:37:09.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,OF THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY ON THIS?
Dialogue: 0,1:37:09.42,1:37:15.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,FIRST, GENOCIDE NEVER HAPPENS AS A SURPRISE.
Dialogue: 0,1:37:15.13,1:37:19.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,NEVER.
Dialogue: 0,1:37:19.87,1:37:25.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THE SIGNS ARE USUALLY AVAILABLE AND APPARENT,
Dialogue: 0,1:37:25.51,1:37:30.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND SO THERE SHOULD BE A DEBATE
Dialogue: 0,1:37:30.41,1:37:34.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AT THE U.N. SECURITY COUNCIL,
Dialogue: 0,1:37:34.25,1:37:37.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AT THE LEVEL OF THE EUROPEAN UNION,
Dialogue: 0,1:37:37.32,1:37:38.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AT THE LEVEL OF AFRICAN UNION,
Dialogue: 0,1:37:38.65,1:37:43.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,OR OTHER POWERBROKERS
Dialogue: 0,1:37:43.29,1:37:48.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,TO SET UNDER WHICH CIRCUMSTANCES
Dialogue: 0,1:37:48.10,1:37:52.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,INTERVENTION WOULD BE DEEMED NECESSARY.
Dialogue: 0,1:37:52.53,1:37:55.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,SO YOU DON'T WAIT UNTIL IT HAS HAPPENED.
Dialogue: 0,1:37:55.57,1:37:57.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THERE MUST BE PREVENTIVE MEASURES.
Dialogue: 0,1:37:57.84,1:38:01.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,SO I THINK WE SHOULD GO BACK TO THE DRAWING BOARD.
Dialogue: 0,1:38:01.78,1:38:04.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Goldhagen, voice-over: BACK TO THE DRAWING BOARD INDEED.
Dialogue: 0,1:38:04.44,1:38:08.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,GIVEN EVERYTHING I'VE SEEN AND STUDIED, THIS MUCH IS CLEAR.
Dialogue: 0,1:38:08.58,1:38:12.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,INSTEAD OF THE U.N., WE NEED AN INTERNATIONAL WATCHDOG ORGANIZATION
Dialogue: 0,1:38:12.95,1:38:16.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,MADE UP OF DEMOCRATIC NATIONS THAT WILL ENFORCE
Dialogue: 0,1:38:16.12,1:38:22.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,A ZERO TOLERANCE POLICY ON GENOCIDE AND ELIMINATIONISM.
Dialogue: 0,1:38:22.46,1:38:25.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,EACH OF THE MEMBERS MUST HAVE THE RIGHT TO INTERVENE
Dialogue: 0,1:38:25.50,1:38:27.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,INDIVIDUALLY OR COLLECTIVELY
Dialogue: 0,1:38:27.53,1:38:30.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,TO STOP CAMPAIGNS OF ELIMINATION,
Dialogue: 0,1:38:30.70,1:38:33.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,BUT INTERVENTION, EVEN FORCEFUL INTERVENTION,
Dialogue: 0,1:38:33.77,1:38:35.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,IS NOT ENOUGH.
Dialogue: 0,1:38:35.38,1:38:36.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,BY THE TIME WE INTERVENE,
Dialogue: 0,1:38:36.91,1:38:39.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,TENS OF THOUSANDS CAN BE DEAD OR HOMELESS.
Dialogue: 0,1:38:39.95,1:38:43.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WE NEED AN EFFECTIVE SYSTEM OF PREVENTION.
Dialogue: 0,1:38:43.62,1:38:46.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WE'VE GOT TO STOP GENOCIDES BEFORE THEY HAPPEN
Dialogue: 0,1:38:46.35,1:38:48.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,BY SHOWING POLITICAL LEADERS THAT THE COSTS TO THEM
Dialogue: 0,1:38:48.89,1:38:53.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WILL FOR SURE FAR OUTWEIGH THE BENEFITS.
Dialogue: 0,1:38:53.49,1:38:56.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THE U.S. HAS A BOUNTY PROGRAM FOR GETTING PEOPLE
Dialogue: 0,1:38:56.20,1:38:58.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,TO HUNT DOWN TERRORISTS.
Dialogue: 0,1:38:58.03,1:39:00.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WHY NOT HAVE DEMOCRATIC COUNTRIES DO THE SAME
Dialogue: 0,1:39:00.17,1:39:03.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,FOR LEADERS WHO PERPETRATE GENOCIDES AND ELIMINATIONS?
Dialogue: 0,1:39:03.80,1:39:06.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,LET'S SAY FOR EXAMPLE, THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY
Dialogue: 0,1:39:06.27,1:39:09.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,DECLARED THE LEADERS OF COUNTRIES THAT COMMIT GENOCIDE
Dialogue: 0,1:39:09.18,1:39:10.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,TO BE OUTLAWS.
Dialogue: 0,1:39:10.34,1:39:13.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THEY CAN BE HUNTED DOWN UNTIL THEY EITHER
Dialogue: 0,1:39:13.55,1:39:16.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,GIVE THEMSELVES UP OR UNTIL THEY'RE KILLED.
Dialogue: 0,1:39:16.12,1:39:17.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WOULD MILOSEVIC UNDER THESE CIRCUMSTANCES
Dialogue: 0,1:39:17.75,1:39:22.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,HAVE EVER INITIATED THE SLAUGHTER OF BOSNIANS?
Dialogue: 0,1:39:22.16,1:39:23.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I DON'T THINK HE WOULD.
Dialogue: 0,1:39:23.66,1:39:29.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,HE COUNTED WITH POWERFUL FRIENDS
Dialogue: 0,1:39:29.16,1:39:32.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND MOST OF ALL WITH THE FACTUAL SITUATION
Dialogue: 0,1:39:32.23,1:39:34.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,ON THE GROUND, KNOWING THAT
Dialogue: 0,1:39:34.27,1:39:38.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY IS IN LOVE WITH THE STATUS QUO.
Dialogue: 0,1:39:38.94,1:39:42.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WE MUST SHOW THAT IT DOESN'T PAY.
Dialogue: 0,1:39:42.51,1:39:48.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,IF PEOPLE KNEW THAT AT THE END OF THE DAY
Dialogue: 0,1:39:48.25,1:39:50.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THEY'D BE THE LOSERS,
Dialogue: 0,1:39:50.52,1:39:53.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THEY WOULD NEVER INVEST
Dialogue: 0,1:39:53.29,1:39:55.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,IN A LOSING ENTERPRISE.
Dialogue: 0,1:39:55.19,1:39:57.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,IT'S BECAUSE GENOCIDE IS A POLITICAL GAME,
Dialogue: 0,1:39:57.39,1:39:59.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,IT'S A POWER PLAY, IT'S WORSE,
Dialogue: 0,1:39:59.53,1:40:01.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,IT'S EVERYTHING.
Dialogue: 0,1:40:01.100,1:40:07.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,IF PEOPLE INVOLVED IN KNEW AT THE END OF THE DAY
Dialogue: 0,1:40:07.30,1:40:08.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THEY'D BE THE LOSERS,
Dialogue: 0,1:40:08.80,1:40:13.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THEY WOULD NOT PLAY THE GAME, THAT'S FOR SURE.
Dialogue: 0,1:40:13.67,1:40:15.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Goldhagen: WHAT IS THE ALTERNATIVE TO DEALING
Dialogue: 0,1:40:15.41,1:40:17.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,FORCEFULLY WITH GENOCIDAL LEADERS?
Dialogue: 0,1:40:17.94,1:40:19.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THE STATUS QUO,
Dialogue: 0,1:40:19.58,1:40:26.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,MORE MASS MURDER, MORE LIVES DESTROYED.
Dialogue: 0,1:40:26.29,1:40:30.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THE KEY TO STOPPING GENOCIDE IS TO FOCUS ON THE LEADERS.
Dialogue: 0,1:40:30.32,1:40:34.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THE KEY TO GETTING US TO ACT IS TO IDENTIFY WITH THE VICTIMS,
Dialogue: 0,1:40:34.36,1:40:36.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,TO THINK OF EACH ONE AS IF HE OR SHE WERE
Dialogue: 0,1:40:36.66,1:40:40.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,YOUR DAUGHTER OR SON, YOUR SISTER OR BROTHER,
Dialogue: 0,1:40:40.10,1:40:42.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,YOUR MOTHER OR YOUR FATHER.
Dialogue: 0,1:40:42.10,1:40:48.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WE'RE GONNA "T" INTO CAR--CAR-- CARMEN--
Dialogue: 0,1:40:48.24,1:40:49.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I DON'T KNOW HOW TO READ IT.
Dialogue: 0,1:40:49.58,1:40:51.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Goldhagen, voice-over: MY JOURNEY ENDS WITH MY FATHER
Dialogue: 0,1:40:51.88,1:40:54.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AT THE PLACE WHERE HIS BEGAN.
Dialogue: 0,1:40:54.61,1:40:59.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,SHORTLY AFTER THE GERMANS AND THE ROMANIAN ALLIES ENTERED MY FATHER'S TOWN,
Dialogue: 0,1:40:59.32,1:41:01.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THEY SLAUGHTERED 800 JEWS.
Dialogue: 0,1:41:01.89,1:41:04.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,MY FATHER AND HIS FAMILY WERE NEARLY EXECUTED
Dialogue: 0,1:41:04.56,1:41:06.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,ON A DIRT ROAD BEHIND THEIR HOUSE
Dialogue: 0,1:41:06.96,1:41:12.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,SOMEWHERE IN THIS NEIGHBORHOOD.
Dialogue: 0,1:41:12.77,1:41:13.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,DO YOU SEE ANY TRACKS?
Dialogue: 0,1:41:13.83,1:41:16.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THEY SHOULD BE STRAIGHT AHEAD.
Dialogue: 0,1:41:16.34,1:41:18.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,IF WE END HERE, THE TRACKS SHOULD BE RIGHT DOWN HERE.
Dialogue: 0,1:41:18.20,1:41:20.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,HERE THEY ARE.
Dialogue: 0,1:41:20.94,1:41:22.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,TATI, SEE THE TRACKS?
Dialogue: 0,1:41:22.34,1:41:23.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I DON'T KNOW. DO YOU SEE THEM?
Dialogue: 0,1:41:23.68,1:41:24.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,YES, THEY'RE RIGHT THERE.
Dialogue: 0,1:41:24.91,1:41:26.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,OH, I SEE. YEAH. THAT WAS HERE.
Dialogue: 0,1:41:26.88,1:41:34.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I LIVED RIGHT HERE.
Dialogue: 0,1:41:34.62,1:41:37.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I RAN OUT WITH MY FATHER BEYOND FROM THERE.
Dialogue: 0,1:41:37.92,1:41:39.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,OUT THE OTHER SIDE?
Dialogue: 0,1:41:39.02,1:41:41.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,YES. I REMEMBER WE RAN OVER A FENCE,
Dialogue: 0,1:41:41.36,1:41:43.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND AS WE WERE RUNNING, A SOLDIER SPIED US
Dialogue: 0,1:41:43.36,1:41:44.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND BEAT MY FATHER VERY SEVERELY
Dialogue: 0,1:41:44.83,1:41:46.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WITH THE BUTT OF HIS RIFLE
Dialogue: 0,1:41:46.33,1:41:48.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND PUT US AGAINST-- SAID, "WAIT HERE,"
Dialogue: 0,1:41:48.10,1:41:50.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,PUT US AGAINST-- OF COURSE THERE WAS A FENCE--
Dialogue: 0,1:41:50.64,1:41:52.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AGAINST THE FENCE,
Dialogue: 0,1:41:52.14,1:41:58.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND THEN HE TOLD ME TO TELL THE FAMILY TO COME--
Dialogue: 0,1:41:58.84,1:41:59.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,TO COME OUT.
Dialogue: 0,1:41:59.85,1:42:00.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,SO HE SENT YOU BACK TO THE HOUSE?
Dialogue: 0,1:42:00.85,1:42:02.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,HE SENT ME BACK TO THE HOUSE,
Dialogue: 0,1:42:02.22,1:42:07.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND WE SAW NEIGHBORS STANDING BEYOND THIS RAILWAY,
Dialogue: 0,1:42:07.39,1:42:10.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND WE REALIZED THAT THEY'RE LOOKING AT US
Dialogue: 0,1:42:10.39,1:42:14.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,IN A CERTAIN WAY THAT THEY-- IN AN OMINOUS WAY.
Dialogue: 0,1:42:14.100,1:42:24.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THEY--WHICH DIDN'T-- WHICH DIDN'T BODE WELL, TO SAY THE LEAST.
Dialogue: 0,1:42:24.07,1:42:26.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,NOW THAT WE'RE HERE, IS THIS--HAS IT CHANGED YOUR VIEW?
Dialogue: 0,1:42:26.94,1:42:29.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,YOU SEE, THE POINT IS THAT THE SCHOLARLY ELEMENT--
Dialogue: 0,1:42:29.51,1:42:33.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THE SCHOLAR WITHIN ME IMMEDIATELY TAKES OVER THE--
Dialogue: 0,1:42:33.68,1:42:38.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND OVERSHADOWS THE EMOTIONS OF THE SURVIVOR
Dialogue: 0,1:42:38.98,1:42:42.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WHO REVISITS THE SCENE OF HIS NEAR DEATH.
Dialogue: 0,1:42:42.62,1:42:46.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,SO AS I TALK TO YOU, I BEGIN TO REFLECT,
Dialogue: 0,1:42:46.86,1:42:49.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,DRAW HISTORICAL ANALOGIES, AND SO ON,
Dialogue: 0,1:42:49.10,1:42:52.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,SO THEREFORE, IT HAS A CERTAIN TEMPERING EFFECT
Dialogue: 0,1:42:52.33,1:42:54.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,UPON MY EMOTIONS AS I CONFRONT
Dialogue: 0,1:42:54.50,1:42:56.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THIS HOUSE WHERE I LIVED,
Dialogue: 0,1:42:56.00,1:42:57.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THIS STREET WHERE I WALKED,
Dialogue: 0,1:42:57.57,1:43:03.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND REFLECTED ON MY BLOOD LYING IN THE DUST HERE,
Dialogue: 0,1:43:03.11,1:43:06.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,BUT WHEN I REMEMBER THAT MOMENT AS I WALKED
Dialogue: 0,1:43:06.58,1:43:08.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND I JUST COULDN'T BELIEVE--
Dialogue: 0,1:43:08.32,1:43:12.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,YES, I DID REFLECT UPON HOW I WOULD LIE DEAD.
Dialogue: 0,1:43:12.48,1:43:14.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WHAT DOES IT MEAN TO BE DEAD
Dialogue: 0,1:43:14.82,1:43:17.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND TO LIE IN YOUR BLOOD?
Dialogue: 0,1:43:17.36,1:43:39.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I REMEMBERED VIVIDLY THIS IMAGERY THAT I HAD AS I WALKED, AND...
Dialogue: 0,1:43:39.35,1:43:41.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Goldhagen, voice-over: WHAT MUST IT FEEL LIKE FOR A 10-YEAR-OLD BOY
Dialogue: 0,1:43:41.88,1:43:47.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,TO CONTEMPLATE HIS OWN IMMINENT, VIOLENT DEATH
Dialogue: 0,1:43:47.22,1:43:53.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,OR A 16-YEAR-OLD GIRL OR A 19-YEAR-OLD MAN?
Dialogue: 0,1:43:53.36,1:43:57.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WHAT MUST IT FEEL LIKE TO BE IMPRISONED IN A RAPE CAMP
Dialogue: 0,1:43:57.06,1:44:01.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,OR TO WATCH HELPLESSLY AS MEMBERS OF YOUR FAMILY ARE KILLED
Dialogue: 0,1:44:01.27,1:44:12.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,OR AS YOUR PEOPLE ARE DECIMATED?
Dialogue: 0,1:44:12.98,1:44:15.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WHAT MUST IT HAVE BEEN LIKE FOR THE MEN OF SREBRENICA
Dialogue: 0,1:44:15.98,1:44:19.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WHO WERE HERDED INTO THIS WAREHOUSE
Dialogue: 0,1:44:19.69,1:44:21.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,OR FOR THE OTHERS FORCED AT GUNPOINT
Dialogue: 0,1:44:21.99,1:44:24.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,INTO NEARBY FIELDS TO BE EXECUTED?
Dialogue: 0,1:44:24.62,1:45:03.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[SPEAKING NATIVE LANGUAGE]
Dialogue: 0,1:45:03.86,1:45:07.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[GUNSHOT]
Dialogue: 0,1:45:07.87,1:45:09.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[GUNSHOT]
Dialogue: 0,1:45:09.57,1:45:12.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[GUNSHOT]
Dialogue: 0,1:45:12.54,1:45:17.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[GUNSHOT]
Dialogue: 0,1:45:17.21,1:45:21.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[RAPID GUNSHOTS]
Dialogue: 0,1:45:21.01,1:45:32.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[GUNFIRE CONTINUING]
Dialogue: 0,1:45:32.86,1:45:39.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[GUNFIRE CONTINUING]
Dialogue: 0,1:45:39.43,1:45:42.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Goldhagen: WE CAN'T STAND BY ANYMORE.
Dialogue: 0,1:45:42.40,1:45:45.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,PEOPLE ARE DYING EVERY DAY.
Dialogue: 0,1:45:45.90,1:45:48.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,A FEW POLITICAL LEADERS START GENOCIDES.
Dialogue: 0,1:45:48.71,1:45:53.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,A FEW POLITICAL LEADERS CAN STOP THEM.
Dialogue: 0,1:45:53.01,1:45:55.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THE PRESIDENTS AND PRIME MINISTERS WE ELECT
Dialogue: 0,1:45:55.45,1:45:59.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,HAVE THE POWER TO END IMPUNITY AND CHANGE THE CHOICES
Dialogue: 0,1:45:59.15,1:46:04.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,POTENTIAL MASS KILLERS MAKE.
Dialogue: 0,1:46:04.96,1:46:08.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WE MUST HOLD OUR LEADERS ACCOUNTABLE AND DEMAND
Dialogue: 0,1:46:08.03,1:46:29.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THAT THEY BRING AN END TO GENOCIDE AND ELIMINATIONISM.
Dialogue: 0,1:46:29.32,1:46:35.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[INDISTINCT CHATTER]
Dialogue: 0,1:46:35.29,1:46:36.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THANK YOU. HOW DO YOU SAY THANK YOU?
Dialogue: 0,1:46:36.76,1:46:38.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I NEVER REMEMBER ANYTHING.
Dialogue: 0,1:46:38.16,1:46:39.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[MAN SPEAKS NATIVE LANGUAGE]
Dialogue: 0,1:46:39.32,1:46:40.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[REPEATS PHRASE]
Dialogue: 0,1:46:40.33,1:46:42.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,EVERYONE.
Dialogue: 0,1:46:42.43,1:46:45.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Goldhagen, voice-over: I HAD BEEN WORKING ON "WORSE THAN WAR"
Dialogue: 0,1:46:45.66,1:46:50.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,FOR ABOUT 10 YEARS BEFORE THE FILM PROJECT BEGAN.
Dialogue: 0,1:46:50.60,1:46:52.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WHEN I WRITE A BOOK, I CAN PRETTY MUCH SAY WHATEVER I WANT TO,
Dialogue: 0,1:46:52.91,1:46:55.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND IF I DECIDE SOMETHING NEEDS 20 PAGES OF ELABORATION,
Dialogue: 0,1:46:55.58,1:46:56.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THEN I DO IT.
Dialogue: 0,1:46:56.78,1:46:58.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,EVEN THOUGH I HAD THOUGHT AT THE BEGINNING,
Dialogue: 0,1:46:58.28,1:47:01.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"WELL, I KNOW WHAT THIS FILM SHOULD SAY,"
Dialogue: 0,1:47:01.18,1:47:02.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,IT TURNED INTO SOMETHING QUITE DIFFERENT
Dialogue: 0,1:47:02.62,1:47:04.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND INFINITELY BETTER THAN ANYTHING
Dialogue: 0,1:47:04.28,1:47:08.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I WOULD HAVE PRODUCED HAD I BEEN THE FILMMAKER
Dialogue: 0,1:47:08.22,1:47:11.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,BECAUSE I PROBABLY WOULD HAVE PRODUCED A NICE TWO-HOUR LECTURE
Dialogue: 0,1:47:11.02,1:47:12.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,OF SOME KIND WITH VISUALS
Dialogue: 0,1:47:12.83,1:47:15.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,INSTEAD OF A FILM THAT IS VISUALLY ARRESTING
Dialogue: 0,1:47:15.96,1:47:17.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND EMOTIONALLY EVOCATIVE
Dialogue: 0,1:47:17.73,1:47:21.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND, AS POWERFUL AS THE BOOK IS,
Dialogue: 0,1:47:21.10,1:47:26.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,IN SOME WAYS OBVIOUSLY MORE POWERFUL.
Dialogue: 0,1:47:26.21,1:47:31.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WHEN MY FATHER AND I WENT TO WHERE HE HAD LIVED DURING THE HOLOCAUST,
Dialogue: 0,1:47:31.08,1:47:35.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,SARAH MY WIFE AND GIDEON OUR SON CAME WITH US.
Dialogue: 0,1:47:35.92,1:47:38.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,GIDEON AT THE TIME WAS 7 YEARS OLD,
Dialogue: 0,1:47:38.68,1:47:40.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND HE WAS DEEPLY INTERESTED.
Dialogue: 0,1:47:40.39,1:47:42.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,HE'S VERY CLOSE MY PARENTS. THEY LIVE NEARBY.
Dialogue: 0,1:47:42.52,1:47:45.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,HE WAS DEEPLY INTERESTED IN GOING TO WHERE GRANDPA WAS FROM.
Dialogue: 0,1:47:45.62,1:47:47.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,SO THEY CAME ON THE TRIP WITH US,
Dialogue: 0,1:47:47.26,1:47:51.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND IT WAS SOMETHING THAT MADE MY FATHER ENORMOUSLY HAPPY.
Dialogue: 0,1:47:51.93,1:47:54.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THAT ONE OF HIS GRANDCHILDREN COULD SEE WHERE
Dialogue: 0,1:47:54.43,1:47:57.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,MY FATHER CAME FROM AND WHERE HE SUFFERED
Dialogue: 0,1:47:57.17,1:47:58.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND WHERE HIS FAMILY SUFFERED
Dialogue: 0,1:47:58.84,1:48:01.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,MADE THE TRIP, IF ONE CAN SAY SUCH A THING,
Dialogue: 0,1:48:01.67,1:48:12.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,TWICE AS MOVING AND MEMORABLE AND MEANINGFUL FOR HIM.
Dialogue: 0,1:48:12.72,1:48:15.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THERE'S NO DOUBT THAT MY FATHER INFLUENCED
Dialogue: 0,1:48:15.16,1:48:19.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,MY INITIAL DIRECTION OF WORKING ON THE HOLOCAUST,
Dialogue: 0,1:48:19.12,1:48:20.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,BUT IT'S LESS BECAUSE HE WAS A SURVIVOR
Dialogue: 0,1:48:20.83,1:48:23.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THAN HE WAS A PROFESSOR WHO STUDIED THIS,
Dialogue: 0,1:48:23.43,1:48:25.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND I GREW UP WITH THIS MATERIAL IN MY HOME
Dialogue: 0,1:48:25.63,1:48:28.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,ALWAYS WITH THE PURPOSE NOT OF TELLING A TALE OF WOE,
Dialogue: 0,1:48:28.50,1:48:31.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WHICH IT IS, BUT OF UNDERSTANDING AND EXPLAINING.
Dialogue: 0,1:48:31.54,1:48:35.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THIS WAS ALWAYS MY ORIENTATION FROM THE TIME I CAN REMEMBER
Dialogue: 0,1:48:35.78,1:48:40.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,KNOWING OR THINKING ABOUT IT OR DISCUSSING IT,
Dialogue: 0,1:48:40.11,1:48:47.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,BUT IT CHANGES YOU TO SEE THE PLACES.
Dialogue: 0,1:48:47.22,1:48:51.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THE CLICHÉ "A PICTURE'S WORTH A THOUSAND WORDS"
Dialogue: 0,1:48:51.62,1:48:55.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,ONLY BEGINS TO CONVEY WHAT BEING IN A PLACE
Dialogue: 0,1:48:55.70,1:48:57.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND SITTING ACROSS FROM THE VICTIMS
Dialogue: 0,1:48:57.86,1:49:01.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND SEEING THE LOCATIONS WHERE PEOPLE WERE SLAUGHTERED
Dialogue: 0,1:49:01.33,1:49:05.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND BEING IN A FORENSIC LAB WITH THE REMAINS OF VICTIMS
Dialogue: 0,1:49:05.07,1:49:07.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,OR BEING IN A MASS GRAVE
Dialogue: 0,1:49:07.17,1:49:10.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,OR STANDING ACROSS FROM A MASTERMIND OF GENOCIDE
Dialogue: 0,1:49:10.14,1:49:12.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,SUCH AS RÍOS MONTT.
Dialogue: 0,1:49:12.91,1:49:14.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,IT CHANGES YOU.
Dialogue: 0,1:49:14.65,1:49:17.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,IT IS MORE THAN WORTH A THOUSAND WORDS.
Dialogue: 0,1:49:17.42,1:49:23.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,IT'S WORTH ENDLESS, ENDLESS VOLUMES OF WORDS.
Dialogue: 0,1:49:23.56,1:49:28.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,IN RWANDA, WE GAINED ACCESS TO ONE OF THE PRISON CAMPS.
Dialogue: 0,1:49:28.39,1:49:33.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,IT'S ACTUALLY A WORK CAMP FOR PRISONERS WHO CONFESSED
Dialogue: 0,1:49:33.27,1:49:35.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,TO THEIR CRIMES, OR AT LEAST SOME CRIMES,
Dialogue: 0,1:49:35.34,1:49:38.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,TO CONFESS TO HAVING PARTICIPATED IN THE GENOCIDE.
Dialogue: 0,1:49:38.70,1:49:41.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,IF YOU CAN BELIEVE THAT, THERE ARE ABOUT 1,000 PEOPLE IN THIS PRISON.
Dialogue: 0,1:49:41.51,1:49:43.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THERE WERE NO GUARDS.
Dialogue: 0,1:49:43.38,1:49:45.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,SO WE INTERVIEWED THE PERPETRATORS IN THE FIELD.
Dialogue: 0,1:49:45.08,1:49:46.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THE WARDEN JUST BROUGHT PEOPLE TO US.
Dialogue: 0,1:49:46.48,1:49:49.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WE HAD NO IDEA WHO WE'D BE TALKING TO,
Dialogue: 0,1:49:49.02,1:49:50.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND ALSO, WE WALKED AMONG THEM.
Dialogue: 0,1:49:50.75,1:49:57.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THEY WERE TILLING THE GROUND WITH HOES AND PICKS AND MACHETES,
Dialogue: 0,1:49:57.26,1:50:00.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,CLEARING IT, AND YOU'RE WALKING AMONG THEM
Dialogue: 0,1:50:00.16,1:50:03.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WITHIN FEET OF ROWS OF THEM WIELDING THESE IMPLEMENTS,
Dialogue: 0,1:50:03.50,1:50:08.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND YOU CAN'T BUT THINK THESE ARE THE IMPLEMENTS THEY USED TO SLAUGHTER
Dialogue: 0,1:50:08.97,1:50:11.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THEIR VICTIMS DURING THE GENOCIDE
Dialogue: 0,1:50:11.40,1:50:14.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,BY THE INDIVIDUALLY, BY THE TENS, BY THE HUNDREDS,
Dialogue: 0,1:50:14.64,1:50:18.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,BY THE THOUSANDS ULTIMATELY.
Dialogue: 0,1:50:18.81,1:50:18.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,OK.
Dialogue: 0,1:50:18.81,1:50:21.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,TELL ME WHEN.
Dialogue: 0,1:50:21.15,1:50:24.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,SHAKING THE HAND OF A KILLER BEFORE I EVEN KNOW ANYTHING ELSE
Dialogue: 0,1:50:24.28,1:50:26.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,ABOUT HIM EXCEPT FOR WHAT HIS NAME IS,
Dialogue: 0,1:50:26.59,1:50:28.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,IS A STRANGE THING.
Dialogue: 0,1:50:28.02,1:50:29.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,IT'S AN ACT OF POLITENESS.
Dialogue: 0,1:50:29.49,1:50:32.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,IT'S A TIME OF HUMAN SHARING,
Dialogue: 0,1:50:32.62,1:50:34.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND YET THAT SAME HAND-- I SHAKE THE HAND.
Dialogue: 0,1:50:34.56,1:50:40.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I THINK THE SAME HAND ACTUALLY WAS WIELDING A MACHETE
Dialogue: 0,1:50:40.27,1:50:42.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND STRIKING AND KILLING
Dialogue: 0,1:50:42.57,1:50:45.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND HACKING TO DEATH OTHER PEOPLE,
Dialogue: 0,1:50:45.94,1:50:48.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND YOU CAN'T FLINCH,
Dialogue: 0,1:50:48.91,1:50:51.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND YOU CAN'T SAY, "I DON'T WANT TO DO IT,"
Dialogue: 0,1:50:51.58,1:50:54.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND YOU HAVE TO DO IT BECAUSE IT'S PART
Dialogue: 0,1:50:54.41,1:50:56.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,OF WHAT YOU NEED TO DO WHEN YOU INTERVIEW SOMEBODY,
Dialogue: 0,1:50:56.58,1:50:59.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND THAT'S JUST THE BEGINNING OF SITTING ACROSS FROM SOMEONE
Dialogue: 0,1:50:59.38,1:51:01.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WHO THEN BEGINS TO TELL YOU OF THE HORRIBLE THINGS,
Dialogue: 0,1:51:01.99,1:51:03.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THE HORRIFYING THINGS THAT HE DID,
Dialogue: 0,1:51:03.92,1:51:06.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THE WAYS THAT HE DID IT.
Dialogue: 0,1:51:06.93,1:51:09.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND SO THERE I AM, A WHOLE JUMBLE OF EMOTIONS
Dialogue: 0,1:51:09.80,1:51:14.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND THOUGHT AND DIFFERENT ORIENTATIONS AT THE SAME TIME--
Dialogue: 0,1:51:14.43,1:51:17.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THE INTERVIEWER, THE SCHOLAR THINKING ABOUT WHAT HE SAYS,
Dialogue: 0,1:51:17.40,1:51:19.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THE ANALYST, THE HUMAN BEING SITTING
Dialogue: 0,1:51:19.44,1:51:21.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,ACROSS FROM A MASS MURDERER,
Dialogue: 0,1:51:21.87,1:51:24.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,FEELING A DEGREE OF SYMPATHY OR EVEN OF LIKING FOR SOMEONE,
Dialogue: 0,1:51:24.31,1:51:26.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,BECAUSE SOME SEEM LIKEABLE,
Dialogue: 0,1:51:26.38,1:51:38.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND ALSO ALWAYS KEEPING IN MIND THAT THESE ARE MASS MURDERERS.
Dialogue: 0,1:51:38.02,1:51:44.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,TO BE ABLE IN MAKING THIS FILM TO GO TO ANY NUMBER OF COUNTRIES
Dialogue: 0,1:51:44.13,1:51:46.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND TO TALK TO THE VICTIMS, TO TALK TO THE PERPETRATORS,
Dialogue: 0,1:51:46.97,1:51:50.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,JUST TO SEE THE PLACES I'D READ ABOUT
Dialogue: 0,1:51:50.04,1:51:52.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WAS TRANSFORMATIVE,
Dialogue: 0,1:51:52.47,1:51:57.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND I THINK BACK ON THE PEOPLE QUITE OFTEN I TALKED TO.
Dialogue: 0,1:51:57.34,1:52:00.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THEY RESONATE WITH ME. THEIR FACES I SEE.
Dialogue: 0,1:52:00.28,1:52:06.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,IN THE FILM, MY FATHER AND SOME OTHERS TALKED ABOUT SEEING FACES.
Dialogue: 0,1:52:06.79,1:52:08.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THEY'RE HAUNTED BY THEM, OR THEY REMEMBER THEM,
Dialogue: 0,1:52:08.69,1:52:10.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THE FACES OF THE PEOPLE WHO DIED.
Dialogue: 0,1:52:10.99,1:52:15.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WELL, THE FACES OF THE PEOPLE I SPOKE WITH AND THEIR WORDS ARE WITH ME
Dialogue: 0,1:52:15.23,1:52:20.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,IN THE WAY THAT THE TESTIMONY IN DOCUMENTS
Dialogue: 0,1:52:20.27,1:52:23.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND COURT TESTIMONY AND SO ON NEVER ARE WITH ME.
Dialogue: 0,1:52:23.97,1:52:28.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I HEAR THEM, I SEE THEM, I THINK ABOUT THEM.
Dialogue: 0,1:52:28.67,1:52:33.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I ABSORBED AND INTERNALIZED THINGS INTO MY BEING
Dialogue: 0,1:52:33.88,1:52:43.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THAT WERE NEVER THERE AND THAT WILL NEVER LEAVE ME.
Dialogue: 0,1:52:43.42,1:52:51.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Announcer: "WORSE THAN WAR" WAS MADE POSSIBLE BY...
Dialogue: 0,1:52:51.73,1:52:57.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND...
Dialogue: 0,1:52:57.67,1:53:19.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,ADDITIONAL FUNDING WAS PROVIDED BY...
Dialogue: 0,1:53:19.42,1:53:22.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,CAPTIONING MADE POSSIBLE BY FRIENDS OF NCI
Dialogue: 0,1:53:22.50,1:53:30.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,CAPTIONED BY THE NATIONAL CAPTIONING INSTITUTE --www.ncicap.org--
Dialogue: 0,1:53:30.30,1:53:33.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"WORSE THAN WAR" CONTINUES ONLINE.
Dialogue: 0,1:53:33.51,1:53:34.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,FOR MORE RESOURCES,
Dialogue: 0,1:53:34.74,1:53:37.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,INFORMATION ABOUT THE PHENOMENON OF GENOCIDE,
Dialogue: 0,1:53:37.31,1:53:39.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AND EXCERPTS FROM DANIEL GOLDHAGEN'S BOOK,
Dialogue: 0,1:53:39.71,1:53:43.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,VISIT PBS.ORG.
Dialogue: 0,1:53:43.52,1:53:46.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THE "WORSE THAN WAR" PROGRAM IS AVAILABLE ON DVD
Dialogue: 0,1:53:46.75,1:53:50.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,FOR $24.95 PLUS SHIPPING.
Dialogue: 0,1:53:50.29,1:53:55.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,THE COMPANION BOOK IS AVAILABLE FOR $29.95 PLUS SHIPPING.
Dialogue: 0,1:53:55.23,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,TO ORDER, CALL 1-800-336-1917.