1
00:00:31,135 --> 00:00:34,180
GRACIELA ITURBIDE:
- I take photographs very fast.

2
00:00:34,180 --> 00:00:37,520
I follow my intuition
and what surprises me.

3
00:00:38,204 --> 00:00:41,040
I never use artificial lights
or flash.

4
00:00:41,724 --> 00:00:45,438
I always use my camera,
just like this.

5
00:00:49,410 --> 00:00:53,390
Frida kahlo's house has been
photographed many times.

6
00:00:53,390 --> 00:00:56,989
It is beautiful to photograph,
but I am always trying

7
00:00:56,989 --> 00:01:00,536
To encounter something
that has not been seen.

8
00:01:01,640 --> 00:01:03,910
There's going to be an exhibit
in Denmark

9
00:01:03,910 --> 00:01:06,170
of Frida's entire life.

10
00:01:06,170 --> 00:01:09,219
I'm going to show some photos
that I took in color.

11
00:01:20,590 --> 00:01:23,220
This is the robe
which she wore in the hospital,

12
00:01:23,220 --> 00:01:25,140
and there, she kept painting.

13
00:01:25,140 --> 00:01:28,240
This is part blood, part paint.

14
00:01:28,240 --> 00:01:30,680
The director of this museum
gave me permission

15
00:01:30,680 --> 00:01:32,310
to photograph Frida's bathroom.

16
00:01:32,685 --> 00:01:34,660
I took the photos
in black and white,

17
00:01:34,660 --> 00:01:37,777
which is more my way
of expressing myself.

18
00:01:38,417 --> 00:01:41,990
Thousands and thousands
of people come to this museum.

19
00:01:41,990 --> 00:01:44,198
She's still a figure
of sainthood.

20
00:01:54,460 --> 00:01:57,119
I am not a Frida maniac.

21
00:01:57,119 --> 00:01:59,759
Despite her suffering,
she painted,

22
00:01:59,759 --> 00:02:02,001
and this is what I admire.

23
00:02:08,599 --> 00:02:11,870
My photography about pain
is very Catholic,

24
00:02:11,870 --> 00:02:15,148
very related
to my Catholic education.

25
00:02:17,730 --> 00:02:20,360
This is Frida's bathroom.

26
00:02:20,360 --> 00:02:22,890
This is a self-portrait
I took of myself in the tub

27
00:02:22,890 --> 00:02:25,105
after my foot operation.

28
00:02:26,650 --> 00:02:29,780
She has a picture called
what the water gives me

29
00:02:29,780 --> 00:02:32,882
that has her feet like this,
but with water.

30
00:02:35,861 --> 00:02:38,390
I have done
various self-portraits.

31
00:02:49,701 --> 00:02:52,740
This is a self-portrait of me
in Trotsky's house.

32
00:02:52,740 --> 00:02:56,486
I am very close friends with
Trotsky's great-granddaughter.

33
00:02:58,472 --> 00:03:01,547
When I go there,
I get a little bit depressed,

34
00:03:03,886 --> 00:03:09,030
because they left the house
with all those bullet holes,

35
00:03:09,471 --> 00:03:12,630
with a lot
of political memories.

36
00:03:18,000 --> 00:03:20,030
We were 13 kids.

37
00:03:20,030 --> 00:03:21,030
I'm the oldest.

38
00:03:21,383 --> 00:03:24,391
Very, very Catholic.

39
00:03:24,502 --> 00:03:26,664
I was educated by nuns.

40
00:03:27,260 --> 00:03:29,850
I think that I'm the only one
in my family

41
00:03:29,850 --> 00:03:31,670
That isn't Catholic anymore.

42
00:03:31,670 --> 00:03:33,569
Now I'm an atheist.

43
00:03:33,569 --> 00:03:36,000
Mm, let's say agnostic.

44
00:03:39,730 --> 00:03:41,590
My father used to take
pictures of us

45
00:03:41,590 --> 00:03:43,440
in black and white
when we were kids.

46
00:03:43,440 --> 00:03:45,680
I used to steal the photographs.

47
00:03:45,680 --> 00:03:47,510
And sometimes I got punished,

48
00:03:47,510 --> 00:03:49,680
because I was always
opening that drawer

49
00:03:49,680 --> 00:03:51,569
and taking the photographs.

50
00:03:51,569 --> 00:03:54,000
And I made my own albums

51
00:03:54,950 --> 00:03:59,000
so from there on, I liked
black-and-white photography.

52
00:03:59,000 --> 00:04:01,590
I wanted to be a writer
when I was a child,

53
00:04:01,943 --> 00:04:04,560
but I got married very young.

54
00:04:04,560 --> 00:04:07,069
I got married when I was 19.

55
00:04:07,069 --> 00:04:10,430
I was 26 years old when
I started to study cinema,

56
00:04:10,430 --> 00:04:12,010
with kids already.

57
00:04:12,010 --> 00:04:14,920
My entry into film school
was fantastic,

58
00:04:14,920 --> 00:04:17,970
because Manuel,
Manuel Alvarez Bravo,

59
00:04:17,970 --> 00:04:19,842
was teaching there.

60
00:04:20,327 --> 00:04:22,120
Nobody went to his classes,

61
00:04:22,120 --> 00:04:24,710
because everybody wants
to become a film director.

62
00:04:25,349 --> 00:04:28,230
But at the third session,
he asked me,

63
00:04:28,671 --> 00:04:30,340
"Do you want to be
my assistant?"

64
00:04:30,340 --> 00:04:31,870
"I would love to.

65
00:04:31,870 --> 00:04:32,870
It's my pleasure."

66
00:04:35,827 --> 00:04:39,458
And that is how I got to know
this wonderful man.

67
00:04:41,290 --> 00:04:45,692
I always felt
Manuel Alvarez Bravo's poetry.

68
00:04:46,861 --> 00:04:51,229
Sometimes he only placed his
camera at a landscape he liked

69
00:04:51,229 --> 00:04:54,100
and he waited
for something to happen.

70
00:04:54,100 --> 00:04:57,040
And he always said,
"There is time.

71
00:04:57,040 --> 00:04:59,010
There is time."

72
00:05:00,820 --> 00:05:03,262
It was a real privilege
to have found him,

73
00:05:03,262 --> 00:05:06,120
because he not only taught me
about photography;

74
00:05:06,120 --> 00:05:08,541
he taught me about life.

75
00:05:10,019 --> 00:05:12,440
Alvarez Bravo focused
on tree trunks

76
00:05:12,440 --> 00:05:14,676
to create abstractions.

77
00:05:15,470 --> 00:05:18,550
When I remember that he shot it,
I say, "No.

78
00:05:18,550 --> 00:05:20,340
"The influence is too great.

79
00:05:20,340 --> 00:05:22,267
I better not."

80
00:05:23,436 --> 00:05:28,134
But since I saw that there was
a beautiful light...

81
00:05:43,484 --> 00:05:45,564
This is Juchitan.

82
00:05:48,367 --> 00:05:49,639
I went to Juchitan

83
00:05:49,639 --> 00:05:52,758
Because Francisco Toledo,
the painter, is from there.

84
00:05:52,979 --> 00:05:54,360
He invited me to do work

85
00:05:54,360 --> 00:05:56,568
and display it
in the culture house

86
00:05:58,289 --> 00:06:00,699
So the people could see
we weren't just taking

87
00:06:00,699 --> 00:06:03,279
but that we were also
giving back.

88
00:06:10,319 --> 00:06:13,220
I was there, more or less,
six years.

89
00:06:13,220 --> 00:06:15,576
I would go and come back,

90
00:06:15,576 --> 00:06:18,665
and I was able
to immerse myself

91
00:06:18,665 --> 00:06:22,550
and have the cooperation
of the people of Juchitan.

92
00:06:23,940 --> 00:06:27,319
This is Toledo's aunt.

93
00:06:29,625 --> 00:06:34,160
In Juchitan,
homosexuality is permitted.

94
00:06:34,935 --> 00:06:39,494
It's one of the very few places
in Mexico that's very liberal.

95
00:06:42,848 --> 00:06:45,840
Look, here's Magnolia.

96
00:06:45,840 --> 00:06:47,720
I was buying beer
with the women,

97
00:06:47,720 --> 00:06:51,849
and Magnolia said, "Ooh,
my love, can you photograph me?"

98
00:06:51,849 --> 00:06:54,500
I told her, "Yes, of course."

99
00:06:54,500 --> 00:06:57,374
Here's the moment
where she's putting makeup on.

100
00:07:04,039 --> 00:07:06,316
I went to the Juchitan market.

101
00:07:06,316 --> 00:07:08,169
I went there because I knew

102
00:07:08,169 --> 00:07:10,670
that the women would be
more accepting of me,

103
00:07:10,670 --> 00:07:12,750
so I sold tomatoes with them.

104
00:07:12,750 --> 00:07:14,740
I saw everything they did.

105
00:07:14,740 --> 00:07:16,050
Then this woman came.

106
00:07:16,050 --> 00:07:18,631
Her name is Sulveda.

107
00:07:24,134 --> 00:07:25,882
12 photos.

108
00:07:26,522 --> 00:07:30,000
Only two iguanas remained alive.

109
00:07:30,287 --> 00:07:33,346
They are sold to people to eat.

110
00:07:37,429 --> 00:07:41,250
And I called this photo
Our Lady of Iguanas.

111
00:07:41,250 --> 00:07:43,995
Again, my religiousness
comes out.

112
00:07:47,725 --> 00:07:50,016
This work, I did
with the Seris.

113
00:07:50,016 --> 00:07:53,711
They are totally different
people from the Juchitecas.

114
00:07:57,639 --> 00:08:00,569
With the Seris,
everything is very severe,

115
00:08:00,569 --> 00:08:02,740
because they live in the desert.

116
00:08:02,960 --> 00:08:05,750
I lived with them for a time,

117
00:08:05,750 --> 00:08:08,470
not as long as I did
in Juchitan.

118
00:08:08,470 --> 00:08:12,190
These works were done
more or less at the same time.

119
00:08:12,190 --> 00:08:15,395
I started them in 1979.

120
00:08:26,668 --> 00:08:29,289
I did another book
about the slaughter of goats

121
00:08:29,289 --> 00:08:33,399
by indigenous people who, for
generations upon generations,

122
00:08:33,399 --> 00:08:37,270
worked for rich Spanish
employers.

123
00:08:39,697 --> 00:08:43,465
They were paid very little.

124
00:08:46,290 --> 00:08:47,820
And they always
crossed themselves

125
00:08:47,820 --> 00:08:50,789
before killing the goats.

126
00:08:50,789 --> 00:08:52,999
That's why I gave the book
the title

127
00:08:53,110 --> 00:08:55,706
In the Name of the Father.

128
00:08:59,545 --> 00:09:01,899
In each work,
I find different things.

129
00:09:01,899 --> 00:09:04,857
Here, I found
this religious part.

130
00:09:07,880 --> 00:09:11,447
It's like the sacrifice
of Abraham.

131
00:09:14,272 --> 00:09:17,911
I really like to photograph
intense things.

132
00:09:22,920 --> 00:09:24,660
This is a work that I did
with the Cholos.

133
00:09:25,719 --> 00:09:27,579
They are
a very marginalized people

134
00:09:27,579 --> 00:09:30,660
that were born
in the United States,

135
00:09:30,660 --> 00:09:32,890
and I had the opportunity
to live and work with them

136
00:09:32,890 --> 00:09:35,151
for a short while.

137
00:09:45,690 --> 00:09:50,483
I began working with the Cholos
in Los Angeles in the '80s.

138
00:09:54,146 --> 00:09:56,450
And from there,
I went to tijuana.

139
00:09:56,450 --> 00:09:58,364
All Cholo influence.

140
00:10:06,640 --> 00:10:09,653
I wanted to do
an investigation.

141
00:10:12,655 --> 00:10:15,470
But what happened is that
I was only there two weeks.

142
00:10:15,470 --> 00:10:17,290
I returned later.

143
00:10:17,290 --> 00:10:19,692
It made me very depressed.

144
00:10:22,649 --> 00:10:23,650
I'm very interested

145
00:10:23,650 --> 00:10:27,038
in how a Mexican goes
to the United States,

146
00:10:27,457 --> 00:10:31,163
because for them,
this is the American dream,

147
00:10:32,200 --> 00:10:36,000
because here in Mexico,
there aren't jobs.

148
00:10:36,000 --> 00:10:41,030
What happens is, they don't know
what they're going to find.

149
00:10:42,950 --> 00:10:46,980
I went to do a tour
of the southern United States.

150
00:10:46,980 --> 00:10:51,910
It was the first time that I was
taking landscape photographs.

151
00:10:53,124 --> 00:10:56,807
I began to enter
into the landscape.

152
00:11:03,361 --> 00:11:05,200
I began learning about life

153
00:11:05,200 --> 00:11:07,290
in the United States,

154
00:11:07,290 --> 00:11:10,079
Where there are no people
on the streets,

155
00:11:10,079 --> 00:11:12,339
which is different from Mexico.

156
00:11:12,339 --> 00:11:17,053
And now I mostly only photograph
landscapes.

157
00:11:19,878 --> 00:11:21,459
I went to India.

158
00:11:21,459 --> 00:11:24,150
The first trip was about people.

159
00:11:24,900 --> 00:11:28,637
Since then,
I've gone four more times.

160
00:11:31,329 --> 00:11:35,323
And now I made a book
titled There is No One,

161
00:11:35,323 --> 00:11:37,863
because there is no one.

162
00:11:38,150 --> 00:11:40,400
There are only objects.

163
00:11:40,400 --> 00:11:42,965
There are only landscapes.

164
00:11:45,061 --> 00:11:49,269
I've always wanted to photograph
the abstract

165
00:11:49,269 --> 00:11:53,020
and now the rebars,
the buildings,

166
00:11:53,020 --> 00:11:56,513
things I never imagined
photographing.

167
00:11:59,470 --> 00:12:02,600
I just finished a project
in L.A. earlier this year.

168
00:12:03,218 --> 00:12:05,200
I was in L.A.
for a month and a half.

169
00:12:05,663 --> 00:12:10,480
It is called Criba del Cielo,
Sieve of Sky.

170
00:12:10,480 --> 00:12:14,966
It is like a grid, a net
where the light passes through

171
00:12:14,966 --> 00:12:18,432
or something that passes
through the brain.

172
00:12:18,432 --> 00:12:20,700
It is with the text
of Fabienne Bradu,

173
00:12:20,700 --> 00:12:24,517
who is a close friend of mine
and a very good writer.

174
00:12:24,980 --> 00:12:27,090
I have always said that for me,

175
00:12:27,090 --> 00:12:31,000
the camera is just a pretext
for knowing the world.

176
00:12:31,000 --> 00:12:33,810
I am interested
in what my eyes see

177
00:12:33,810 --> 00:12:35,800
and what my heart feels.

178
00:12:36,484 --> 00:12:37,590
Why grids?

179
00:12:37,590 --> 00:12:40,267
It means prison,
something like that,

180
00:12:40,267 --> 00:12:42,242
Something that is enclosed.

181
00:12:42,242 --> 00:12:45,473
Maybe I feel like
I'm in prison myself.

182
00:12:50,350 --> 00:12:53,410
Maybe I also feel locked up.

183
00:12:53,410 --> 00:12:57,140
Maybe my camera is liberating me
from those feelings.

184
00:12:57,250 --> 00:13:00,000
It's what touches me,
what moves me.

185
00:13:00,000 --> 00:13:02,875
That is what I photograph.

186
00:13:10,853 --> 00:13:12,000
- Hola, Aami.

187
00:13:12,861 --> 00:13:14,148
Como estas?

188
00:13:16,576 --> 00:13:20,168
- I photograph my grandchildren
all the time.

189
00:13:20,168 --> 00:13:24,068
Everybody has a photo album.

190
00:13:24,620 --> 00:13:30,520
- [speaking spanish]

191
00:13:30,520 --> 00:13:31,839
The interesting thing
about her work

192
00:13:31,839 --> 00:13:34,139
is that it always
reinvents itself.

193
00:13:34,139 --> 00:13:36,899
It's a work that has a huge
opportunity to not repeat,

194
00:13:36,899 --> 00:13:39,060
to not generate a style

195
00:13:39,060 --> 00:13:41,540
but, more importantly,
to search for or be an example

196
00:13:41,540 --> 00:13:45,754
for what human beings can do
with their lives.

197
00:13:54,273 --> 00:13:56,690
- I am a composer,
an interdisciplinary artist

198
00:13:56,690 --> 00:13:58,779
thanks to my mother,
of course.

199
00:13:58,779 --> 00:14:00,860
Also to my father
but mainly–

200
00:14:00,860 --> 00:14:04,410
the rebel part,
I got it from my mother.

201
00:14:04,410 --> 00:14:08,050
[all speaking Spanish]

202
00:14:10,401 --> 00:14:13,060
Also, my neuroses,
I got it from my mother too.

203
00:14:13,060 --> 00:14:14,060
[laughs]

204
00:14:21,783 --> 00:14:22,709
- I 
studied architecture

205
00:14:22,709 --> 00:14:24,120
thinking that afterwards

206
00:14:24,120 --> 00:14:26,220
I would be dedicated
to making movies,

207
00:14:26,220 --> 00:14:27,870
a master's degree in film,

208
00:14:27,870 --> 00:14:30,430
or that I would start
taking photos.

209
00:14:32,880 --> 00:14:34,320
And when I finished my degree,

210
00:14:34,320 --> 00:14:37,779
sure that I would change paths
or go to another place,

211
00:14:37,779 --> 00:14:40,709
it was my mother who asked me
to design her house.

212
00:14:41,172 --> 00:14:43,540
That's the house that we're in.

213
00:14:43,540 --> 00:14:45,810
The important thing
is not the architecture.

214
00:14:45,810 --> 00:14:48,029
it's the investigation one has.

215
00:14:48,029 --> 00:14:50,709
And that, I learned as much
from my mother as my father,

216
00:14:50,709 --> 00:14:53,468
via my mother
from Alvarez Bravo.

217
00:14:53,468 --> 00:14:55,335
Architecture is a tool.

218
00:14:55,640 --> 00:14:58,469
The important thing
is investigation.

219
00:14:59,131 --> 00:15:11,543
- [speaking spanish]

220
00:15:11,543 --> 00:15:14,097
[laughter]

221
00:15:30,516 --> 00:15:34,001
- I have a small exhibition
that is up at the Tate Modern.

222
00:15:42,409 --> 00:15:45,370
I never imagined
being in the Tate Modern.

223
00:15:45,855 --> 00:15:47,630
It is strange,
because photography

224
00:15:47,630 --> 00:15:49,480
has always been
the redheaded stepchild

225
00:15:49,480 --> 00:15:51,778
of the artistic disciplines.

226
00:15:56,369 --> 00:15:57,391
And all of a sudden,

227
00:15:57,391 --> 00:16:00,731
to be so close
to such important painters,

228
00:16:01,172 --> 00:16:02,827
it's strange.

229
00:16:04,372 --> 00:16:06,515
But I'm very happy.

230
00:16:13,820 --> 00:16:17,504
I think that any photographer
is an investigator.

231
00:16:28,885 --> 00:16:32,554
Photography is a pretext
to know the world, to know life,

232
00:16:32,554 --> 00:16:34,055
to know yourself.

233
00:16:38,910 --> 00:16:43,920
If I were not a photographer,
I would be very, very badly off.

234
00:16:43,920 --> 00:16:46,136
I would have a very bad time,

235
00:16:46,136 --> 00:16:50,882
because creativity is needed
to keep moving forward.

236
00:16:54,898 --> 00:16:59,561
(ambient electronic music)

237
00:17:00,000 --> 00:17:02,461
To learn more about "Art in the Twenty-First Century"

238
00:17:02,461 --> 00:17:04,262
and it's educational resources,

239
00:17:04,262 --> 00:17:08,248
please visit us online at PBS.org/Art21

240
00:17:09,396 --> 00:17:12,706
"Art in the Twenty-First Century" is available on DVD

241
00:17:12,706 --> 00:17:18,351
To order, visit shopPBS.org or call 1-800-PLAY-PBS

242
00:17:18,351 --> 00:17:23,903
(ambient electronic music)